Metagame 350 Cup [Leader's Choice]

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon

Skiploom seems pretty good in this meta. The combination of 160 Base speed, Strength Sap, and Sleep Powder make it the fastest reliable sleeper in the meta (besides Smeargle, but it seems pretty bad). The only pokemon i've seen give this thing problems are scarfed birds (Rufflet and Staravia) as well as opposing Skiploom (immune to Powder and and resistant to Grass STAB).

Skiploom @ Leftovers
Ability: Infiltrator (Leaf Guard can be used for the rare Toxic PDon or getting burned by a PDon fire move, if Skiploom actually manages to live)
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (EVs can be optimized, i'm not the best at determining them)
Timid Nature (it's best to be as fast as possible, in order to outrun/tie non-scarf Staravia and other base 160s
- Sleep Powder (this and Strength Sap are the main tools of this set, as they allow for the weakening of non-scarf Rufflet, Pawniard, and other physical attackers)
- Strength Sap
- Giga Drain (main STAB of choice, secondary healing option and good chip for Magnemite and other Steels)
- U-turn (used to pivot after Sleeping or Sapping)
 
Okay Spritzee is unfair, being almost not breakable by any Physical moves/Special moves depends how you invest it :

252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 240-284 (46.6 - 55.1%)
252 Atk Hustle Rufflet Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 349-412 (67.7 - 80%)
252 Atk Cranidos Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 376-444 (73 - 86.2%)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 320-377 (62.1 - 73.2%)
252+ Atk Grimer-Alola Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 216-254 (41.9 - 49.3%)
252 Atk Arceus-Steel Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 158-188 (30.6 - 36.5%)
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Spritzee: 240-284 (46.6 - 55.1%)

and a bunch of other stuff


Most of those getting check by Water Ceus or stuff like those

Actually kind of annoyed that you need to run a precise mon that doesnt lose to Spritzee depending on its filler.
 

drampa's grandpa

DRAMPA CONFIRMED
is a Pre-Contributor
Okay Spritzee is unfair, being almost not breakable by any Physical moves/Special moves depends how you invest it :

252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 240-284 (46.6 - 55.1%)
252 Atk Hustle Rufflet Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 349-412 (67.7 - 80%)
252 Atk Cranidos Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 376-444 (73 - 86.2%)
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Cranidos Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 320-377 (62.1 - 73.2%)
252+ Atk Grimer-Alola Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 216-254 (41.9 - 49.3%)
252 Atk Arceus-Steel Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 158-188 (30.6 - 36.5%)
0 SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Spritzee: 240-284 (46.6 - 55.1%)

and a bunch of other stuff


Most of those getting check by Water Ceus or stuff like those

Actually kind of annoyed that you need to run a precise mon that doesnt lose to Spritzee depending on its filler.
I think that Spritzee is something that needs keeping an eye on but really isn't nearly as important as the other two things Chopin mentioned.

I hate trapping in any meta. STAG and Arena Trap need to go, and to my mind this includes Gengarite which has a lot of new things it can trap.
Abra / Gastly + Trapinch cores are everywhere and kinda absurd.

Rufflet is absurd, there's no real defensive counterplay. I've dealt with it by going to Slowpoke and tanking one hit, then switching to the appropriate mon to tank whatever it's locked into, and although I haven't seen any yet I plan to click x against sub/bulkup sets. It's absurdly overpowered and absurdly centralizing to the metagame. The only real strike against it I've seen people arguing is its accuracy, which isn't a reliable thing to bank on at all, and more something to worry about when you're using it then something you can really use well playing against it (ie you don't know it's going to miss, and if you're just praying for it to miss you're probably in a losing position otherwise which isn't good.)

other things...


Foongus @ Assault Vest / Black Sludge / Shed Shell
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Clear Smog
- Foul Play / Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Spore

This thing is a nice defensive mon that pairs well with the common Slowpoke. Clear Smog lets it serve as the teams check to Calm Mind Spritzee, Hidden Power Fire allows it to check Ferroseed (which has no Recovery v it thanks to Leech Seed immunity) Giga Drain is STAB recovery move and Foul Play allows it to damage physical attackers and stuff like Gengar a bit better.

You can also run non-AV sets to get Synthesis and Spore, but I found that less effective and didn't let me check all the things I wanted to as well as the AV set does.



Rhyhorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rest
- Stealth Rock / Sleep Talk / Roar

Rhyhorn may seem like a cut-price Hippopotas, and in many ways it is, but Rhyhorn has a couple things Hippo doesn't.
1) Flying resistance and absurd physical bulk means it takes almost nothing from any Rufflet move not named Superpower (in fact it has a small chance to tank Adamant Band Superpower from full 252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyhorn: 454-536 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
2) Excellent offensive typing and attack stat means that it is more difficult to switch into then one might imagine.

You have to weigh this against it's paper-thin special defense and weaknesses to ground, fighting, and 4x to grass and water, and lack of reliable recovery (run it along Spritzee for ez cleric support) but overall it's certainly worth considering.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
y'all are sleeping on my boi Darumaka



140/180/90/30/90/100 with Hustle

Darumaka @ Choice Band
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt / Rock Slide / U-turn
- Zen Headbutt / Rock Slide / U-turn

Take a look at this for a power comparison:
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 619-729 (181.5 - 213.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 582-685 (170.6 - 200.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Rayquaza-Mega Dragon Ascent vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 412-486 (120.8 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
MegaFUG

Superpower for Rocks and bulky waters, ZHB for Mareanie, Rock slide for things like MMence, U-turn for pivoting and also for Slowpoke. It can afford to run Adamant because most offensive mons outspeed regardless and most defensive mons underspeed. It's a great offensive check to Spritzee, taking about 25% from +1 Moonblast and smacking it with Flare Blitz. Ironically it's also a good partner for Sprit too, weakening/removing checks like Pdon and Steels while Sprit keeps it healthy.

The other great thing? Most of its "checks" are massive MGar/Trapinch bait, so you can just pivot into those and bop them.

Obviously, the problem with Band is that Darumaka is pretty slow - base 100 speed doesn't really cut it offensively in this meta. However, it can easily run a Jolly Scarf set to terrify offense - you outspeed the entire (relevant) unboosted metagame bar Abra, Diglett, and Deo-S, and OHKO everything short of Arceus-level bulk:
252 Atk Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 322-379 (84.5 - 99.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Spritzee: 393-463 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Spritzee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darumaka: 102-120 (24.2 - 28.5%) -- 97.2% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus (neutral hit): 393-463 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mareanie: 342-404 (84.6 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mareanie: 192-226 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stufful: 445-525 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Arceus-Water: 250-294 (56.3 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Water: 262-309 (59 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 238-281 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal in Harsh Sunshine: 308-363 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyhorn: 372-438 (70.9 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 260-306 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 196-231 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowpoke: 290-342 (51.4 - 60.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 322-381 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Hustle Darumaka Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mareanie: 208-246 (51.4 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Stufful: 271-319 (55.9 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

if you're a lord you can run Z-Sunny Day but that's just ridiculous
 
K so me and Halliday have decided that Shadow Tag is very cancerous and unhealthy for the meta. I myself has been continously laddering and found out Shadow Tag is too much of a deciding factor and pretty much impossible to play around with a well-played Shadow Tag. Not to mention Gothita is bulky and strong enough to trap so many of the mons it's often a deciding factor. And I've gotten complaints of Shadow Tag as well. Because of that, Shadow Tag is now banned.

The Immortal

Edit: Also Arena Trap is now on the watchlist as some people complained about it.
 

drampa's grandpa

DRAMPA CONFIRMED
is a Pre-Contributor
K so me and Halliday have decided that Shadow Tag is very cancerous and unhealthy for the meta. I myself has been continously laddering and found out Shadow Tag is too much of a deciding factor and pretty much impossible to play around with a well-played Shadow Tag. Not to mention Gothita is bulky and strong enough to trap so many of the mons it's often a deciding factor. And I've gotten complaints of Shadow Tag as well. Because of that, Shadow Tag is now banned.

The Immortal

Edit: Also Arena Trap is now on the watchlist as some people complained about it.
To clarify; is Gengarite banned, or just Pokemon with Shadow Tag in their base form?
 

Kris

ungabunga
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K so me and Halliday have decided that Shadow Tag is very cancerous and unhealthy for the meta. I myself has been continously laddering and found out Shadow Tag is too much of a deciding factor and pretty much impossible to play around with a well-played Shadow Tag. Not to mention Gothita is bulky and strong enough to trap so many of the mons it's often a deciding factor. And I've gotten complaints of Shadow Tag as well. Because of that, Shadow Tag is now banned.

The Immortal

Edit: Also Arena Trap is now on the watchlist as some people complained about it.
will be up soon
 
K so me and Halliday have decided that Shadow Tag is very cancerous and unhealthy for the meta. I myself has been continously laddering and found out Shadow Tag is too much of a deciding factor and pretty much impossible to play around with a well-played Shadow Tag. Not to mention Gothita is bulky and strong enough to trap so many of the mons it's often a deciding factor. And I've gotten complaints of Shadow Tag as well. Because of that, Shadow Tag is now banned.

The Immortal

Edit: Also Arena Trap is now on the watchlist as some people complained about it.
Oh crap there goes like half my teams lol
 
Wanna know something that is quite strong? Gastly, with a choice item, gastly becomes a dangerous revenge killer,

Gastly @ Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Psychic / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Energy Ball / Trick / Dazzling Gleam
Now you may be asking a few questions
Why hidden power fighting instead of focus blast?
Gastly can't learn focus blast, if it did, I would put in on here, only gengar, it's final evolution gets it.
Why should I use energy ball?
Be my guest in using giga drain, it's here to deal with ground types, but you can use hidden power ice, but you'll be losing being able to counter steel types.
 
I haven't discussed this with Chopin, but I'm going to make it public that what I would want is for Gengarite to be banned as well.
 
So what do people do to stop rufflet? Bronzor and honedge getting beat up by hone claws/bulk up+ shadow claw. And anything else gets beat by superpower.
 

Funbot28

Sé que a ti te gustan mis labios de fresa
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Moderator
Sorry I haven't been able to log in but yes, Gengarite is banned as well.
Can I ask why though? I personally found that only Gothita held an issue in the current meta in regards to Shadow Tag which is why I wondered if just a simple ban on Goth was considered. Did Mega Gar and Wynaut really express the same levels of uncompetitive was as Goth to warrant a blanket ban on the ability?

Also fuck Rufflet
 
So what do people do to stop rufflet? Bronzor and honedge getting beat up by hone claws/bulk up+ shadow claw. And anything else gets beat by superpower.
Scouting, Hippopotas/Bronzor core, and a decent revenge killer.
Hippopotas can tank most hits, a regular BB without boosts from CB/Hustle being a 4HKO/3HKO.
252+ Atk Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 135-160 (28.3 - 33.6%) -- 97.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 175-208 (36.7 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
So scarf variants can't do anything to Hippo and you can phase out set up Rufflets Whirlwind or just use Rock Slide coverage.
When the Rufflet starts adding Choice Band/Hustle is when you start being more cautious.
252+ Atk Choice Band Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 204-240 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 265-312 (55.6 - 65.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 304-358 (63.8 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hippopotas can still stall it out if it chooses 1 or the other, but not both at once or Hustle+Life Orb. If it has a choice band, switch to Bronzor, especially on BB/Return locks.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Bronzor: 171-201 (39.5 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
You can even stay in with Hippo if he uses Superpower.
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Rufflet Superpower over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippopotas: 264-311 (55.4 - 65.3%) -- not a KO
If all else fails, like say it's the late game and your Hippopotas is too low on health, use a revenge killer based on what you know about from the Rufflet, typically Abra or Salandit with Scarf or Specs respectively.
Also remember the recoil. Rufflet can be killed by accident due to Stealth Rock, Sand Stream, Life Orb, Brave Bird, ect.
 
Ok so, because I've been hearing divided opinions regarding these two things, me and Halliday have decided that Rufflet and Arena Trap are now suspected.

Details:

The suspect ends in Saturday, April 14th, 2018.

Players must create an alt with RAT (Rufflet + Arena Trap). For example: RAT Chopin.

Requirement:

You must post a screenshot of your alt with at least 1300 elo AND at least 72.0 GXE. Each of them will be banned if they reach a pro-ban vote of at least 60% from the total votes

Vote like this:

[Screenshot]

Reasoning (you MUST have reasoning. This is needed because we need voters with enough knowledge for the meta, not just random voters)

Rufflet: Ban / Do Not Ban / Abstain
Arena Trap: Ban / Do Not Ban
/ Abstain (honestly, don't bother to participate if you're gonna vote abstain on both)

Can I ask why though? I personally found that only Gothita held an issue in the current meta in regards to Shadow Tag which is why I wondered if just a simple ban on Goth was considered. Did Mega Gar and Wynaut really express the same levels of uncompetitive was as Goth to warrant a blanket ban on the ability?

Also fuck Rufflet
OP-ness and uncompetitiveness are two different things and I think we should treat them differently. A mon is OP/broken in competitive standpoint is relative and is arguable, while uncompetitiveness is usually absolute, especially with things like Shadow Tag. So I think it's better if we tackle the core issue rather than being half-assed about it.
 

GL Volkner

meet me in the afterglow
is a Tiering Contributor
Climbed the 350corporateladder to get reqs


Rufflet: Ban
Arena Trap: Ban

Reasoning: Rufflet's ability to 2HKO the entire metagame with its Choice Band set in addition to its commendable bulk and great speed tier makes it a devastating force to be reckoned with. The only answer that even comes close to beating Rufflet is Honedge, but with a single Pursuit trapper that Pokemon is immediately null and void. In addition, Rufflet enjoys coming in on a lot of the metagame and threatening it out, meaning you either have to sack what you currently have or sack something else. There's 0 prediction involved in using this Pokemon and there isn't a reward that it doesn't give. Rufflet is unhealthy for the metagame and I believe it should go.

Arena Trap's ability to reliably remove any grounded threat on the opponent's team is just plain uncompetitive. I'm quite biased against trapping in general but both Diglett and Trapinch are very potent threats in the metagame which render threats that they trap useless at team preview if you exercise even the slightest bit of caution and keep both of those Pokemon healthy. Both have their merits - Diglett with its speed tier and Trapinch with sufficient enough bulk to beat what it traps without exactly necessitating the usage of a Focus Sash.

Team: https://pokepast.es/4680605c399194a8

hf
 
why are we wasting our time suspecting a mon that will get banned no matter what and should of been quickbanned since day 1?
really shows how poorly things are being done with this meta.
why was stag banned and not JUST little goth? u cant give a good reason why this happened period.
literally one shadow tag mon was used through out the time the ladder has been up, a single person used mega gengar and thats it and they were no wobb nothing. this is a very bad sign already as it shows the thought process of whoever is leading and its really bad.
OP-ness and uncompetitiveness are two different things and I think we should treat them differently. A mon is OP/broken in competitive standpoint is relative and is arguable, while uncompetitiveness is usually absolute, especially with things like Shadow Tag. So I think it's better if we tackle the core issue rather than being half-assed about it.
goth was the problem the only problem dont even begin to compare goth and gothitelle they are way different all together because goth can only trap support arceus meanwhile lil goth can trap stuff like slowpoke/agrimer(yes lil goth can easily trap this mon)/cm clef/sprittze etc and alot more heck this mon can even trap non roar/sd pdon easily but then u decided to just ban stag all together when only one was broken AND LITERALLY NO REASONING AT ALL???? ur even wasting more time on trapinch and diglet/arena trap if it was so UNCOMPETITIVE why arent these banned as well because its on the same level, diglet and trapinch trap just as much as goth but u decided to waste time to suspect it? or u that unaware of the current meta ,god

"A mon is OP/broken in competitive standpoint is relative and is arguable" r u aware of ruffet at all? u do realize how much of an impact it has on teambuilding and the overall meta as a whole? do u enjoy seeing arceus electrics/steel and slowpoke/steel/hippo on everyteam just to not autolose??? that means u have to run 2-3 mons just to not autolose and u think ITS JUST OP AND BROKEN???? plz look up the meanings of those words relating to pokemon. if i were to compare this mon i would compare it to Naganadel well not the mon but the impact it had on ou its very very similar since common walls that would wall naganadel would just set up on it and win eventually like how ruffet sets up on slowpoke/hippo and beats it, even the counterplays for these 2 mons are the same "hard to X, then hard to Y". tier knowledge is quite important when handling this which u both lack
this mon isnt op its completely unhealthy, do u understand what kind of counter-play is required to even beat this mon? a single mon? "hard to slowpoke/hippo and then hard to rock/steel" and ur suggesting that a suspect should be done??? and u think its just "broken and op". i just laugh when i see this ,my only advice is to play alot more because clearly u have no idea whats going on.

sure banning stag has good affects on the meta as a whole id give u that but dont make it seem like mega gengar and wobb are in the same league or as bad as lil goth because they are not at all and stop treating 350 like ubers just because its uber-based meta.

regardless both will be banned thats the good side of things
 
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G-Luke

Edgy Shit
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why are we wasting our time suspecting a mon that will get banned no matter what and should of been quickbanned since day 1?
really shows how poorly things are being done with this meta.
why was stag banned and not JUST little goth? u cant give a good reason why this happened period.
literally one shadow tag mon was used through out the time the ladder has been up, a single person used mega gengar and thats it and they were no wobb nothing. this is a very bad sign already as it shows the thought process of whoever is leading and its really bad.


goth was the problem the only problem dont even begin to compare goth and gothitelle they are way different all together because goth can only trap support arceus meanwhile lil goth can trap stuff like slowpoke/agrimer(yes lil goth can easily trap this mon)/cm clef/sprittze etc and alot more heck this mon can even trap non roar/sd pdon easily but then u decided to just ban stag all together when only one was broken AND LITERALLY NO REASONING AT ALL???? ur even wasting more time on trapinch and diglet/arena trap if it was so UNCOMPETITIVE why arent these banned as well because its on the same level, diglet and trapinch trap just as much as goth but u decided to waste time to suspect it? or u that unaware of the current meta ,god

"A mon is OP/broken in competitive standpoint is relative and is arguable" r u aware of ruffet at all? u do realize how much of an impact it has on teambuilding and the overall meta as a whole? do u enjoy seeing arceus electrics/steel and slowpoke/steel/hippo on everyteam just to not autolose??? that means u have to run 2-3 mons just to not autolose and u think ITS JUST OP AND BROKEN???? plz look up the meanings of those words relating to pokemon. if i were to compare this mon i would compare it to Naganadel well not the mon but the impact it had on ou its very very similar since common walls that would wall naganadel would just set up on it and win eventually like how ruffet sets up on slowpoke/hippo and beats it, even the counterplays for these 2 mons are the same "hard to X, then hard to Y". tier knowledge is quite important when handling this which u both lack
this mon isnt op its completely unhealthy, do u understand what kind of counter-play is required to even beat this mon? a single mon? "hard to slowpoke/hippo and then hard to rock/steel" and ur suggesting that a suspect should be done??? and u think its just "broken and op". i just laugh when i see this ,my only advice is to play alot more because clearly u have no idea whats going on.

sure banning stag has good affects on the meta as a whole id give u that but dont make it seem like mega gengar and wobb are in the same league or as bad as lil goth because they are not at all and stop treating 350 like ubers just because its uber-based meta.

regardless both will be banned thats the good side of things
Reading this made me felt like I was viewing an OU thread
 
Yes I am not treating it as Ubers but no I am NOT gonna treat this meta like OU either. And I am not gonna ban mons on day 1 in any meta before proving them broken. Because this is Ubers based meta, the standard of power-level that's considered as "overpowered" or not isn't gonna be based on OU either, so is the amount of checks/counters the mon has. This is why mons like Cranidos is staying.
 
Yes I am not treating it as Ubers but no I am NOT gonna treat this meta like OU either. And I am not gonna ban mons on day 1 in any meta before proving them broken. Because this is Ubers based meta, the standard of power-level that's considered as "overpowered" or not isn't gonna be based on OU either, so is the amount of checks/counters the mon has. This is why mons like Cranidos is staying.
good work on taking what i said out of context as usual u missed the point.
u always made this statement and dodge my actual points made
u dont understand what is going on nor what overpowered means, no one was talking about how many checks/counters it has
im talking about the state of the meta atm how much of an impact ruffet has on everything, WHEN ARE U GOING TO REALISE THAT RUFFET ISNT JUST OVERPOWERED.
ohh now ur going to compare crandios AND RUFFET by putting them in the same "OVERpowered" circle.
"Because this is Ubers based meta, the standard of power-level that's considered as overpowered"
"Yes I am not treating it as Ubers"
make up ur mind, just because they are ubers in the meta doesnt mean the standard of power level is overpowered thats literally treating it like ubers and a very gullible way of thinking IF UR NOT TREATING IT LIKE UBERS, NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE STARDARD POWER LEVEL OF UBERS, IF NOT EVEN HALF OF THEM ARE USED. every other uber-based meta, has never done something like this NEVER, when something is broken/unhealthy its banned, do u actually believe they consider the standard power level of ubers?? this is such a dull way of doing things and its just sad
why do u think ubers are even a factor in all of this when not even a half of dozen is used in 350 cup?
what a joke that is, really shows how hypocritical u really r

just saying this suspect is a waste of time and these mons should just be banned
ofc u need to wait for them to be "proven" broken/unhealthy i have already explained how little the people who lead this meta actually play 350 cup its really bad like really bad, u dont even know the state of the meta right now just going by ur statements alone "JUST OP/BROKEN/OVERPOWERED". i dunno whats so hard about PROVING RUFFET BROKEN????? DO U ACTUALLY NEED A SUSPECT FOR THAT?
have u even seen ruffet/stag/trapinch/diglet in action at all? i dont think so. if u have, u really have no idea whats up.


THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY knows its broken and wants to be banned immediately but because of ur lack knowledge of the meta, u have to wait until its proven broken????
 
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