Hmm... I might actually try out Mandibuzz. Perhaps SpD variant in place of Aegislash? Whatever build people are running these days...
I need to get a FS with one now lol.
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3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
- Start date
I need to get a FS with one now lol.
Does anyone have any thoughts on a Muk (Minimize/Infestation/Toxic/attack) + Rotom-W (standard bulky, mainly to take Earth attacks for Muk) core to run alongside a "broken" sweeper (M-Kanga, Talonflame, hell even M-Gengar despite the fact that he's not "only" a sweeper), for a go-to 3v3 core?
I have also considered Drifblim Minimize/Baton Pass or Clefable (Unaware) Minimize/Cosmic Power, in place of Muk, but I feel like Rotom-W really makes a great partner for Muk (and for a lot of the third-slot sweepers, too). Feel free to comment specifically on the choice of Minimize user.
To round out my 6, I was going to include a few other potentially useful threats - maybe all three of the sweepers I mentioned above so that I can bring what's needed, possibly a Taunt user like Weavile or Mandibuzz in case I see setups/hazards in team preview. I also thought about bringing Magic Bounce Espeon along for team preview (but rarely taking him into battle) to discourage opponents from picking shenanigans lineups.
I realize this is less formal or informational than an RMT, but I'm kicking around ideas before I go spending several valuable hours training up the mons I don't already have.
I have also considered Drifblim Minimize/Baton Pass or Clefable (Unaware) Minimize/Cosmic Power, in place of Muk, but I feel like Rotom-W really makes a great partner for Muk (and for a lot of the third-slot sweepers, too). Feel free to comment specifically on the choice of Minimize user.
To round out my 6, I was going to include a few other potentially useful threats - maybe all three of the sweepers I mentioned above so that I can bring what's needed, possibly a Taunt user like Weavile or Mandibuzz in case I see setups/hazards in team preview. I also thought about bringing Magic Bounce Espeon along for team preview (but rarely taking him into battle) to discourage opponents from picking shenanigans lineups.
I realize this is less formal or informational than an RMT, but I'm kicking around ideas before I go spending several valuable hours training up the mons I don't already have.
I don't know what my FS is, but I have a Mandibuzz in my roster right now with perfect defensive IVs. I can try to clone a baby out of her if you want.
EDIT in response to the above: Magic Bounce Espeon is actually pretty nice in Wifi. I rarely use her, but sometimes you see an opposing line up of things like Sableye, or justa ton of hazards and status stall abuse, and most of the time they have no answer to Espeon. While Dark and Ghost weakness hurts, Dazzling Gleam really helps her cover her vulnerabilites. You can run Espeon with Calm mind and morning sun with a defensive spread, or even just go all out offense to switch in and blow something up, then switch out. Espeon is a wonderful partner for Mega Khan, since invariably, the things that threaten to shut Khan down are completely stopped by Magic Bounce, and if you run Choice specs/Scarf, you can usually OHKO them if they don't switch out.
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Good to know... I'll keep that in mind and probably bring one along. I'm also considering Rotom-H instead of Rotom-W to deal with some Steel types that could give me trouble.
Maybe my 6-mon roster will be:
(Minimize abuser) / (Rotom forme) / (great physical sweeper) / (great special sweeper and trapper) / (fast Taunt user with other utility) / (Magic Bounce). Namely:
(Muk/Clefable/Drifblim) / (Rotom-W/Rotom-H) / (M-Kanga) / (M-Gengar) / (Weavile/Mandibuzz) / (Espeon), pick 3 to wreak havoc. Despite using some very popular mons, I'm kind of proud that at least it doesn't use Talonflame, Greninja, Aegislash, or Dragonite.
Any thoughts on which slashed mon I should take in slots 1, 2, and 5?
Other posters seemed to praise Muk, but I've had success with lead Drifblim just abusing Minimize and Baton Pass. The biggest threats I faced were Crunch M-Kanga (of course) and Greninja. I ran 92 Speed EVs so I could outrun M-Kanga after Unburden with Sitrus Berry, making it a 42% chance to be hit the second turn. Greninja just Ice Beam OHKOs Drifblim though. Most everything else was simple enough to start spamming Minimize and Pass to my own M-Kanga. It's a tad cheap, but I went about 20-2 with this combo.
Just make sure if you are using an evasion strategy to watch out for Auto-hit moves. Some Weaviles run Feint attack in case of it, and of course there is Lucario's Aura Sphere (though Muk can briefly tank it, and Drifblim is immune). And finally, Haze is the ultimate answer to evasion, though not nearly as common.
Now that the BS ranking matches are up again, and I don't have to worry about Battle Analyzer with the recent patch, I've broke into the 1700 range with my new team of Noviern/Goodra/Scizor/Blaziken/Gastrodon/Rotom-W.
Running two Megas (Scizor/Blaziken) is actually quite useful, as I can pick and choose which one to use depending on the enemy team. Mega Kang? Blaziken. Lots of Fairies/Special attackers? Scizor (I run bulky SpD).
Gastrodon and Rotom-W are both friggin amazing, each countering certain threats. Gastrodon counters Rotom-W and has amazing utility in general, mauling Rock/Ground types and fishing for Burns with Scald. Water immunity is hilarious too. I don't think there was any BS team I made that didn't have Gastrodon in it, it's just too useful. Rotom-W counters Talonflame, and also threatens the likes of Gyarados or other physical Water/Flying types. Has a handy immunity to Ground to bypass all the Earthquakes thrown everywhere, and WoW is fun to troll enemy physical attackers with.
Goodra is an amazing special tank in general, and serves as a nice partner to Gastrodon, absorbing all Grass attacks with Sap Sipper. Noivern is a new addition to my team, replacing Talonflame. Frisk is great to scout items (for example, a Focus Sash on a Diggersby who I thought was Choiced) and runs Switcheroo to ruin enemy walls or setup sweepers/baton pass chains with Choice Specs.
As always, I have to have good prediction to win, but I feel that this team is the best I've run so far. I've had some problems with Choice Specs Hydreigon, though the one battle I lost to one, I could have won had I brought in Goodra or Noivern as a lead against it. I've also had some hilarious battles, where I wonder how these opponents got to the 1600 range in the first place. For example:
I have Gastrodon out, enemy has something threatened by it. He switches to Kangaskhan, eating a Scald on the switch-in, going to about 70%. No Burn, but I'm not worried. He MEvos, uses PUP, gets hit by Rocky Helmet twice. Gets hit by Scald, goes to about 7%. Gets burned and dies. Disconnects.
Lead Noivern vs lead Ferrothorn, it has Lum Berry (wut?). Enemy switches in Noivern on my Choice locked Noivern Flamethrower. I switch in Scizor, praying he doesn't have Flamethrower, and tanks a Draco Meteor to about 80%. Not wanting to risk a Flamethrower because I'm not sure if Choiced or not, I press Bullet Punch and instead am greeted with Ferrothorn again. I hit SD, seeing that I'm screwed if it has Thunder Wave and I don't want my Noivern to get hit by it (my other mon was Gastrodon). It instead Gyro Balls me for pitiful damage. I Roost, wondering it he'll switch, and instead Leech Seeds me. The next few turns alternate between me SDing and Roosting until +6 and it Gyro Balling or Power Whipping me for crap damage. I get to +6, opponent sends in Medicham. It MEvos, I Bullet Punch, OHKO. Ferrothorn is OHKOd by X-Scissor and Noivern is mauled by Bullet Punch. Never let my Scizor get to +6.
Opponent has Lead Venusaur, I have lead Noivern. It has Venusaurite, so I switch to Goodra to absorb a Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. Surprisingly, he switches to Rotom-W instead. I tank anything it throws at me, so I press Draco Meteor. Amazingly, it decides to Trick, taking my Assault Vest and giving me... Choice Specs. What. The same guy later on put in his MVenusaur against my Goodra, and Sleep Powdered, but lol Sap Sipper. Incredibly, he decides to Giga Drain and have it be negated once again while I maul it with Choice Specs Dragon Pulse. His last mon was Talonflame against my three mons, so he forfeited.
These were all matches in the 1600 range. What.
Running two Megas (Scizor/Blaziken) is actually quite useful, as I can pick and choose which one to use depending on the enemy team. Mega Kang? Blaziken. Lots of Fairies/Special attackers? Scizor (I run bulky SpD).
Gastrodon and Rotom-W are both friggin amazing, each countering certain threats. Gastrodon counters Rotom-W and has amazing utility in general, mauling Rock/Ground types and fishing for Burns with Scald. Water immunity is hilarious too. I don't think there was any BS team I made that didn't have Gastrodon in it, it's just too useful. Rotom-W counters Talonflame, and also threatens the likes of Gyarados or other physical Water/Flying types. Has a handy immunity to Ground to bypass all the Earthquakes thrown everywhere, and WoW is fun to troll enemy physical attackers with.
Goodra is an amazing special tank in general, and serves as a nice partner to Gastrodon, absorbing all Grass attacks with Sap Sipper. Noivern is a new addition to my team, replacing Talonflame. Frisk is great to scout items (for example, a Focus Sash on a Diggersby who I thought was Choiced) and runs Switcheroo to ruin enemy walls or setup sweepers/baton pass chains with Choice Specs.
As always, I have to have good prediction to win, but I feel that this team is the best I've run so far. I've had some problems with Choice Specs Hydreigon, though the one battle I lost to one, I could have won had I brought in Goodra or Noivern as a lead against it. I've also had some hilarious battles, where I wonder how these opponents got to the 1600 range in the first place. For example:
I have Gastrodon out, enemy has something threatened by it. He switches to Kangaskhan, eating a Scald on the switch-in, going to about 70%. No Burn, but I'm not worried. He MEvos, uses PUP, gets hit by Rocky Helmet twice. Gets hit by Scald, goes to about 7%. Gets burned and dies. Disconnects.
Lead Noivern vs lead Ferrothorn, it has Lum Berry (wut?). Enemy switches in Noivern on my Choice locked Noivern Flamethrower. I switch in Scizor, praying he doesn't have Flamethrower, and tanks a Draco Meteor to about 80%. Not wanting to risk a Flamethrower because I'm not sure if Choiced or not, I press Bullet Punch and instead am greeted with Ferrothorn again. I hit SD, seeing that I'm screwed if it has Thunder Wave and I don't want my Noivern to get hit by it (my other mon was Gastrodon). It instead Gyro Balls me for pitiful damage. I Roost, wondering it he'll switch, and instead Leech Seeds me. The next few turns alternate between me SDing and Roosting until +6 and it Gyro Balling or Power Whipping me for crap damage. I get to +6, opponent sends in Medicham. It MEvos, I Bullet Punch, OHKO. Ferrothorn is OHKOd by X-Scissor and Noivern is mauled by Bullet Punch. Never let my Scizor get to +6.
Opponent has Lead Venusaur, I have lead Noivern. It has Venusaurite, so I switch to Goodra to absorb a Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. Surprisingly, he switches to Rotom-W instead. I tank anything it throws at me, so I press Draco Meteor. Amazingly, it decides to Trick, taking my Assault Vest and giving me... Choice Specs. What. The same guy later on put in his MVenusaur against my Goodra, and Sleep Powdered, but lol Sap Sipper. Incredibly, he decides to Giga Drain and have it be negated once again while I maul it with Choice Specs Dragon Pulse. His last mon was Talonflame against my three mons, so he forfeited.
These were all matches in the 1600 range. What.
Rating battles are finally back. Two weeks of waiting jeez gamefreak, you guys are pretty damn slow.
Anyways, I am finally going to put some new bred stuff to use. Mainly Breloom, Venusaur and Gourgeist. I desperately needed a grass type considering how every battle has a rotom. I am also gonna try focusing on a more defensive team rather than all out offense. All out offense makes me lose just as much as I win. It really isn't effective.
Anyways, I am finally going to put some new bred stuff to use. Mainly Breloom, Venusaur and Gourgeist. I desperately needed a grass type considering how every battle has a rotom. I am also gonna try focusing on a more defensive team rather than all out offense. All out offense makes me lose just as much as I win. It really isn't effective.
I think the appeal of Muk is that it's a standalone threat to literally every opponent imaginable if its evasion doesn't get penetrated. Infestation traps and produces guaranteed kills (slowly) on ANY type of opponent. With Drifblim, on the other hand, you're almost required to run Baton Pass and hook up with a sweeper, and that sweeper may not be as devastating if Drifblim happens to get killed along the way.
On Drifblim, 92 Speed is definitely what is needed to outrun M-Kanga after Unburden? Which type of Kanga, Jolly? Good to know that value since he's such a common threat. What other EVs did you run? A split of Def and SpD? I'm thinking of running Bold nature (-Atk), with Shadow Ball as its "oh no I'm taunted" attack... not that it's going to do much with Shadow Ball alone anyway, but still.
Rotom-W (or Rotom-H if you wanna be like me) is a pretty cool partner for Garchomp, as it resists Ice (And if you use Rotom-H, it also resists Fairy). Steel-types like Mawile or Ferrothorn are also pretty good partners for Garchomp. And the way team synergy works...you kinda wanna have a little something for everything in this format, since you're only limited to half your team. I try to look at type synergy between Pokemon, but I also aim for checking specific threats with what I have, because if you can at least decently check some of the stronger Pokemon, you can at least blanket some similar options. I think that's the best way to go as far as defensive synergy. Sometimes you could have a Pokemon you always lead with, like something with U-Turn if you get into a bad matchup, but at times not having the advantage on the first turn can legitimately throw the entire game outta your favor. It's better to try and adapt to your opponent's team most of the time and predict what they may lead with to get the advantage
I would recommend it, just because even if you have a few Pokemon who are dedicated walls, you don't always have to go in with them. Like maybe 2-3 defensive tanks, everything else can be up to you. It's really up to the flavor of your team how you plan to make it go, though
The one thing you will soon realize is that the BS metagame is heavily reliant on prediction. You will learn to look at the opponent's team, and decide which ones they will bring to counter your team. And, in battle, you only have 3 mons, so prediction is essential to not accidentally lose a mon to something, because it's harder to bounce back from a 2-3 situation than a 5-6 situation.
Minimize users make me sick, man...I keep Sableye in the reserves at all times cause of this :\
I was doing some test runs of Mega Aggron. Here are three matches if anyone is interested:
6MTW-WWWW-WWW3-646F
This one uses a different build (Adamant, Max Attack, Max HP) than the bottom two (Careful, Max HP, Max Special Defense)
SCHG-WWWW-WWW3-MS4X
WARNING: MINIMIZE USER HERE
GYFW-WWWW-WWW3-MQRS
6MTW-WWWW-WWW3-646F
This one uses a different build (Adamant, Max Attack, Max HP) than the bottom two (Careful, Max HP, Max Special Defense)
SCHG-WWWW-WWW3-MS4X
WARNING: MINIMIZE USER HERE
GYFW-WWWW-WWW3-MQRS
I will say this as many times as I need to. Gastrodon is so freaking underrated.
This cute slug thing has saved my ass more times than I care to count. With all the Rotom-W running around, it counters them perfectly, and it's tanky enough to withstand even a Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird. Of course, you have to be smart with it, as you have to watch out for enemies running Grass coverage moves, but play him right and you'll never regret it on your team. I had a few matches where it just trolled the fuck out of the opponent. One team ran mono Electric, and had a Electivire out and a MAmpharos in reserve at about 70% health. Gastrodon was sent in after it killed my Goodra, at about 40% health after taking a Dragon Pulse from Mega Ampharos. I pressed Recover, thinking I'd die, but Electivire's Earthquake only did like 30% damage, and I just spammed Recover until I was full and killed it with Earthquake. Luckily I critted Mega Ampharos, but I still had another mon in reserve so I wasn't too worried. Another match was down to the last mon with a Choice Scarf Diggersby and my Gastrodon at 65% health. He knew I had a Rocky Helmet, so he used Earthquake, but surprisingly it only did 45%ish damage, allowing me to spam Recover and PPstall him out for the win.
There has been no team that I haven't used Gastrodon in at the BS. Right now using Gastrodon/Greninja/Rotom-W/Goodra/MKanga/Chandelure and finally got back into the 1700s after a series of losses.
Gastrodon ftw!
Edit: Also, I seriously think I am the only one running Gastrodon. Out of the many players I faced, not one had a Gastrodon.
This cute slug thing has saved my ass more times than I care to count. With all the Rotom-W running around, it counters them perfectly, and it's tanky enough to withstand even a Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird. Of course, you have to be smart with it, as you have to watch out for enemies running Grass coverage moves, but play him right and you'll never regret it on your team. I had a few matches where it just trolled the fuck out of the opponent. One team ran mono Electric, and had a Electivire out and a MAmpharos in reserve at about 70% health. Gastrodon was sent in after it killed my Goodra, at about 40% health after taking a Dragon Pulse from Mega Ampharos. I pressed Recover, thinking I'd die, but Electivire's Earthquake only did like 30% damage, and I just spammed Recover until I was full and killed it with Earthquake. Luckily I critted Mega Ampharos, but I still had another mon in reserve so I wasn't too worried. Another match was down to the last mon with a Choice Scarf Diggersby and my Gastrodon at 65% health. He knew I had a Rocky Helmet, so he used Earthquake, but surprisingly it only did 45%ish damage, allowing me to spam Recover and PPstall him out for the win.
There has been no team that I haven't used Gastrodon in at the BS. Right now using Gastrodon/Greninja/Rotom-W/Goodra/MKanga/Chandelure and finally got back into the 1700s after a series of losses.
Gastrodon ftw!
Edit: Also, I seriously think I am the only one running Gastrodon. Out of the many players I faced, not one had a Gastrodon.
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Can you comment on Gastrodon vs. Quagsire? Naturally Gastrodon is water immune (with SpA boost, too) instead of water neutral, which is great against Rotom-W, but I'd think Unaware Quagsire would counter most other mons better, especially boosters. Couldn't Quagsire run a SpD build and fill almost the same role, but do it better? Quag, too, has Recover access.
I have to correct myself on this one. I have never used an Unburden Pokemon and instantly assumed it was a 50% increase like Flash Fire and Guts so I copied my Blaziken EVs for +1 speed tier. As it's actually double speed you don't need any EVs to outrun much of the meta after Unburden.
I've noticed an increase in Regenerator users such as Slowbro and even Tangrowth from high JPN players. It actually makes sense to allow switching while keeping only 3 Pokemon alive. There's a lot of Sableye around too.
One important change I've made is changing my usual lead to this:
Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Rush
He can beat M-Kanga leads 1v1, Talonflame leads 1v1, beat Minimize users with Dragon Rush, set up on Burn users, and even take out SwagPlay Klefki.
It depends on what you're more worried about. Gastrodon in general can take out a lot of water users, like Rotom-W, Lanturn (seen a lot of these lately), Scald users, etc. It also has somewhat higher bulk than Quagsire naturally. However, Gastrodon can't keep up with boosting attackers, having to gamble on Burns neuter threats. If you're afraid of SD Garchomp, run Quagsire. If you need something to counter Rotom-W, run Gastrodon.
Speaking of which, I might actually run both on my team (replacing Rotom-W) just to see how well they can work. If I fear setup sweepers, I'll use Quagsire, and if I fear Rotom-W, Lanturn or Scald users I'll use Gastrodon.
Edit: Also, generally Gastrodon is a better attacker than Quagsire due to Scald on better SpA, and if it can nab a +1 boost Scald is very annoying. Quagsire can't really do as much damage uninvested.
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Been lurking for awhile and I really like the merits of Magic Bounce Espeon. I'm personally leaning towards a Calm Mind set since she will be mostly for stall/status teams. I was thinking something like:
Espeon - Magic Bounce
Bold 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Leftovers
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
Though I'm not sure Bold nature and defensive investment is worth it as it seems to only help me with phazers like Brave Bird Skarmory and Hippowdon. Should I consider something closer to:
Espeon - Magic Bounce
Timid 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def
Leftovers
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Reflect
- Dazzling Gleam
I lose psychic coverage but gain Reflect support while still neutering Sableye's Foul Play. Not to mention I outspeed a lot of common threats like non-scarfed Garchomp.
I have to say Mandibuzz is such a great pokemon this gen and one of my personal favorites. Her fast taunt is great for anything non-prankster and her bulk is impressive. I have to say it is funny, in theory all she gained was another weakness in fairy types, but she is very-anti meta.
I agree Farran, Gastrodon is a good threat and I see quite a few of them at 1700+ I usually have some answer for them, but if I see one in preview I tend to leave Rotom at home.
Espeon - Magic Bounce
Bold 252 HP/252 Def/4 SDef
Leftovers
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Psyshock
- Dazzling Gleam
Though I'm not sure Bold nature and defensive investment is worth it as it seems to only help me with phazers like Brave Bird Skarmory and Hippowdon. Should I consider something closer to:
Espeon - Magic Bounce
Timid 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def
Leftovers
- Calm Mind
- Morning Sun
- Reflect
- Dazzling Gleam
I lose psychic coverage but gain Reflect support while still neutering Sableye's Foul Play. Not to mention I outspeed a lot of common threats like non-scarfed Garchomp.
I have to say Mandibuzz is such a great pokemon this gen and one of my personal favorites. Her fast taunt is great for anything non-prankster and her bulk is impressive. I have to say it is funny, in theory all she gained was another weakness in fairy types, but she is very-anti meta.
I agree Farran, Gastrodon is a good threat and I see quite a few of them at 1700+ I usually have some answer for them, but if I see one in preview I tend to leave Rotom at home.
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Do the effects from using poke-amie or whatever its called apply to battle spot battles too? Had a couple battles last night using my swagger klefki where the opponents poke was not confused for more than one turn (clefable and two venusaurs) which was quite annoying. Maxing out a pokemons friendliness makes it more likely to snap out of confusion, according to serebii. If so I better start stroking my pokemons :o.