INTRO:
Hi everybody. First time posting so a brief self-intro. My name is MaliciousMuffin, I've been playing Pokemon in some way or another since the original DPPt and have been involved in competitive singles since S/M. I've recently picked up the Gen 4 frontier again and decided to try the battle tower seriously. My first run going into the hundreds used Drapion/Mesprit/Garchomp, the classic world record Jumpman team, ended with 165 wins.
For those that don't know how that team works. TLDR in one sentence: Mesprit Tricks a Choice Scarf, locks the enemy into one move and cripples them with debuffs before the crit-immune Drapion or the monster overstat Garchomp comes in, sets up, and sweeps.
I'm here to write down what I learned and my new original team that builds on top of Jumpman's strategy.
So far, this team has carried me past my old record to 168 wins, where my streak currently resides. In the case my streak goes into the hundreds, I thought I would start documenting it from here.
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TEAM:
Disclaimer 1: I'm playing on emulator
Disclaimer 2: My Latias and Registeel aren't actually perfect (Those interested in the exact stats can view the PokePaste below). In the era before bottle caps, I am constrained by the RNG of the game and even with third party tools to help me these are the best ones I could find within a reasonable number of encounter frames. For the purposes of this team, the best Latias would be 31/0/31/x/31/31. 0 Atk to minimize confusion damage because Battle Tower loves Signal Beam and Confuse Ray. SpAtk doesn't matter because she will not be attacking.
PokePaste:
https://pokepast.es/40d79f81552e74e6
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POST-MORTEM AUTOPSY OF MY ORIGINAL TEAM:
1. Drapion Setup Time: Drapion is considered a very reliable Pokemon in the frontier because he cannot get crit, which is an enormous consideration with crit rate = 5%. Unfortunately, the battle tower rewards winning streaks in a game that is inevitably based on luck, over the course of hundreds, thousands of games, a random crit is bound to happen. However, in exchange of being immune to random crits, Drapion is susceptible to other inconsistencies. Acupressure boosts are completely random and it takes up to 21 turns to get +6 in every stat (theoretically you could get all the stats you want super early and reduce the amount of turns).
So is it always possible to get the full boost?
Full boosts are not always possible in the frontier, especially considering enemy PP usage. Suppose Mesprit Tricks + Choicelocks a move like Stone Edge or Blizzard with 5PP. Enemy moves are not PP-maxed in the frontier, so you have 5+4 or 5 turns of struggle before the enemy KOs itself. That's not enough time to even get half of the boosts for Drapion.
Why not just keep boosting on the 2nd enemy Pokemon then?
First, important caveat to note is that you can't Acupressure behind a substitute in Pt/HGSS. This got fixed in B/W.
Sometimes this is the optimal play. You put a sub up right before the first enemy KOs itself. But consistency is reduced. The second enemy is not choicelocked and not crippled with a ton of Charms and Flashes. This might not matter if the second enemy Pokemon is Lopunny4, and you already got 2 defense Acupressure boosts, bringing Drapion to +4. Here you would just let Lopunny break your sub and keep boosting. But it also could be the dreaded Quick Claw + Earthquake + Horn Drill Rhydon4, in which you need that out of your face ASAP.
When does Garchomp come in?
Precisely in this situation. Garchomp only needs 3 turns to get +6 Atk with Swords Dance, making him a far better alternative when the enemy move has 5PP and is not Blizzard. If it is Blizzard, Mesprit's Twave and Flash can hopefully make a few miss, Garchomp can SubStall the rest, and set up while the enemy Struggles.
2. Mesprit's doesn't have enough WEAKNESSES
Yes. Weaknesses.
Once you're out of the first few dozen battles, smart AI kicks in. The enemy battle AI prefers to use moves that are supereffective on you. Mesprit is a pure Psychic-type and is only weak to Bug, Dark, Ghost. Bug is not a very common type, but Heracross's Megahorn could be a problem. Usually, this is a good thing because the common Night Slashes and Shadow Balls flying around would get absorbed by Mesprit, the enemy gets locked into it, and Drapion tanks a move it resists while it sets up.
What if the enemy doesn't have a supereffective move on Mesprit, like Lapras4 or Regice3, but they still have high base SpAtk and are SpAtk invested? They click a neutral STAB move.
252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 66-78 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Regice Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mesprit: 72-85 (38.5 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mesprit gets 3 turns to do something. You can either Trick/T-wave/Flash, or Flash 3x.
Option 1: Losing turn to paralysis is 25% in Gen 4, one Flash drops accuracy to 75%. Lapras now hits her Ice Beam only 0.75^2 = 0.5625, 56.25% of the time, but her speed is also debuffed.
Option 2: -3 accuracy = 50% accuracy, but no speed debuff.
Because Lapras has a Scarf now, +1 Speed Lapras barely outspeeds +0 Speed Drapion. We go with Option 1.
And now we get to the final problem:
3. Drapion is understat, with 70 HP/75 SpDef bulk.
This is how I lost the first time.
Drapion might only have a ground weakness, but he's lacking in the resistances department and often can get statchecked by a neutral special move before he's done with his 21 turns.
252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. 0 HP / 196+ SpD Drapion: 61-73 (42 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Turn 1: Acupressure, no SpDef boost. Lapras hits her Surf.
Turn 2: Acupressure, no SpDef boost. Lapras hits her Surf
Turn 3: Drapion is forced to Rest, hopefully Lapras misses or gets paralyzed, we gotta buy more time to get at least one boost. Lapras hits her Surf.
Turn 4: Drapion is asleep. Lapras hits her Surf
Turn 5: Drapion is asleep. Lapras hits her Surf, Drapion is KO'd.
Turn 6: Garchomp comes in and Swords Dances once. At this point I need RNG to save me. Whether it's optimal to double Earthquake or Swords Dance + Earthquake depends on the other Pokemon in the back, which I don't know. If Lapras is the last enemy, clicking Outrage is optimal because it could just crit and turn a 2HKO into a OHKO. |
The only thing that sort of gives me a hint is that different trainer classes in the frontier seem to be more likely to use different Pokemon (Veterans and Rangers seem to have the Legendary Golems, Legendary Birds, trainers with bulky mons tend to have more bulky mons, etc.) If there is at least one bulky mon in the back I will need to be +2 to OHKO it, so I go for the boost. Lapras hits Surf.
252+ SpA Lapras Surf vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 76-91 (41.3 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Turn 7: Garchomp subs. Lapras hits Surf and breaks it.
Turn 8: Garchomp subs. Lapras hits Surf and breaks it.
Turn 9: I'm out of HP to sub, I gotta finish off Lapras with an Earthquake and hope the next 2 mons I can OHKO.
Turn 10: The next mon who comes in...has a Focus Sash...gg....if only I had a sub to tank a hit.
The odds of Lapras landing all 8 Surfs without losing a single turn to paralysis or miss is around 1% in this case. Not to mention this was combined with getting the wrong boosts and the second enemy just happened to have a Focus Sash. Needless to say this was very unlucky, but what are some things we can do to potentially mitigate these issues?
LATIAS/REGISTEEL/GYARADOS TEAM:
On Setup Time: Registeel needs 9 turns to set up 6 curses and 3 amnesias, less than half the time for Drapion. He also decides which boosts to take first, making him a lot more reliable in this regard.
On Weaknesses:
Why not Mesprit/Registeel, Why Latias/Registeel?
Latias has a more volatile type matchup spreadsheet, meaning more weaknesses and resistances. Luckily, her weaknesses to Bug, Dark, Ghost, Dragon, and Ice are all resisted by Registeel, who tanks these moves like a champ (
remember: Steel resists Dark, Ghost until the type rebalancing changes in X/Y). This means Latias is more likely to get targeted by some random coverage move the AI trainer is using, will choice lock the enemy into it, and then Registeel comes out and tanks it while it sets up. Registeel has way more resistances in general, which means neutral moves will probably get tanked too.
Registeel is only weak to Fire, Fighting and Ground. Latias resists Fire and Fighting moves, and is immune to Ground via Levitate (the AI is special cased to be aware of Levitate when choosing moves in Gen IV). This means the AI will almost never choose these moves against Latias and won't be locked into them - great!
It seems in general Mesprit/Drapion is a great pairing and Latias/Registeel is a great pairing. Latias sponging Ice Beams doesn't benefit Drapion much, whereas Mesprit is at least neutral to Ice Beam and less likely to attract it unless it happens to be the enemy STAB option without a supereffective move to hit Mesprit. Mesprit's lack of resistances means something like Charizard1 might click Flamethrower against it, which is a Registeel killer. However, if facing Latias, Charizard1 will prefer Air Slash.
Why Gyarados instead of Garchomp?
I thought about this for a while, and the answer is Garchomp and Latias are both Dragon-types and share many weaknesses. There are less chances to switch Garchomp in if Latias is frequently locking enemies into Ice Beams and Draco Meteors. Instead, we should be considering what kind of rare situation Latias will lock in a move Registeel hates.
Gyarados is a scary dragon without the dragon type and resists Fire, Fighting and Ground, all 3 of Registeel's weaknesses. This means if a Pokemon like Charizard2 comes out, it could be locked into Overheat (since it's other attacking move is Solar Beam). Gyarados will roll in, dragon dance, and sweep. Status moves like Will-o-Wisp are also an issue, because Leftovers can't outheal burn in Gen 4. If T-wave or Will-o-Wisp is locked, Latias can T-wave + Flash x 6 so the odds of it connecting become minimal. Gyarados has a Lum Berry just in case.
Ditching the dragon type means Gyarados is not weak to Ice and Dragon, which saves it from the weakness sharing problem of mons like Garchomp and Salamence.
ISSUES WITH THIS NEW TEAM?
With 168 games in, I've already noticed a few issues. No team is truly perfect and only time will tell if this team only created more problems compared to the old one. After all, this team isn't the record setting team with 2500 straight wins...so I guess we'll have to see how it performs.
Critical hits...
The biggest one is that Registeel can get crit, unlike Drapion. Most of the time, this doesn't matter. The iron ball Pokemon is so tanky a crit Shadow Ball does barely any more damage than a regular Shadow Ball.
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel on a critical hit: 38-45 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO
However, the real problem is with crit Earthquakes, Magma Storms, Overheats, and other supereffective moves. As we established, the first enemy is going to be locked into a move Registeel will probably resist. But after it gets KO'd, the second Pokemon could be something dangerous like Moltres4, who has White Herb + Overheat.
But we would be behind a sub, so we have crit insurance, right????
Registeel is very slow...
Sort of. Not as well as Drapion, anyway. Registeel is very slow, even slower with 6 Curses up. You can't lose your sub, and then immediately get a fast sub up again to block the next hit. The enemy will get one hit in before you are comfortably behind a sub again.
+6 in every stat Drapion moves faster than a Regieleki on crack, so he will always get a sub up first unless he gets hit by priority, of which no Ground-type priority moves exist in the game and he'll be at +6 defense anyway.
What this means for Registeel is that you gotta count turns, and on the turn your sub would break, you need to create a new sub on that same turn so that you are never out in the open without a sub. The problem is
random crits are random and inherently not predictable. Yes, it would have taken 5 turns to break the sub, but Charizard crit you, so the sub broke this turn. You immediately click sub again, but what if Charizard crits you twice in a row, and hits you on the one turn you are out in the open?
Also the Horn Drill-spamming Rhydon is back. He just has to hit you twice in a row. 0.3^2 =0.09 -> 9% odds, which is pretty scary to think about it.
Thank you if you read my post this far. Hopefully I'll see everybody again in a few more hundred wins (or when I lose).
We all end up getting our blessed run
