Good stuff, added to the OP!
Another resource: https://www.trainertower.com/pokemon-sword-and-shield-rental-teams/
VGC rental teams, also usable in the Tower. Thanks to Spooky Butt for bringing these up on Discord!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
SwSh Battle Facilities Discussion & Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Another resource: https://www.trainertower.com/pokemon-sword-and-shield-rental-teams/
VGC rental teams, also usable in the Tower. Thanks to Spooky Butt for bringing these up on Discord!
I was grinding for BP and started tracking at 35 wins in a row and have made it to 86 without dying yet. Figured I could post this ongoing streak team since it is easy to whip up for BP.
Eternatus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
Dynamax Cannon everything, even Steels most of the time. Sludge Bomb for Fairys. Flamethrower for if you come back in later. Dragon Pulse because I couldn't be bothered even giving it another move. Probably should be Toxic or Shadow Ball.
Game Freak should ban 680+ BST mons, yet here we are.
Inteleon @ Sea Incense
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
Use Dynamax Surf to set rain and sweep. Probably should use Life Orb, but actually you use water moves 90% of the time, so it is a bit close.
Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-turn
Press button, win game. U-turn because your 100% accurate move options are pretty pathetic, maybe should be Iron Head. You can use Dynamax to slip out of choice lock if in dire trouble.
Also, during these battles, Alan dynamaxed a Centiskorch against me turn 1. I had thought only Leon would Dynamax.
Eternatus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
Dynamax Cannon everything, even Steels most of the time. Sludge Bomb for Fairys. Flamethrower for if you come back in later. Dragon Pulse because I couldn't be bothered even giving it another move. Probably should be Toxic or Shadow Ball.
Game Freak should ban 680+ BST mons, yet here we are.
Inteleon @ Sea Incense
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Air Slash
Use Dynamax Surf to set rain and sweep. Probably should use Life Orb, but actually you use water moves 90% of the time, so it is a bit close.
Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake
- U-turn
Press button, win game. U-turn because your 100% accurate move options are pretty pathetic, maybe should be Iron Head. You can use Dynamax to slip out of choice lock if in dire trouble.
Also, during these battles, Alan dynamaxed a Centiskorch against me turn 1. I had thought only Leon would Dynamax.
8th generation sets now available in a damage calculator, minimally forked from the Trainer Tower calculator: https://turskain.github.io/8thgen/
May break, and is for now separate from the old generations calculator. 8 sets are currently missing, maybe due to mismatches between what things were called in the spreadsheet and the calculator's pokedex data.
May break, and is for now separate from the old generations calculator. 8 sets are currently missing, maybe due to mismatches between what things were called in the spreadsheet and the calculator's pokedex data.
I want to destroy everything with the best looking fossil, Dracovish.
Can someone tell me: Should I run Adamant or Jolly Vish with Scarf?
Can someone tell me: Should I run Adamant or Jolly Vish with Scarf?
Adamant so you can put it out of its misery when Lapras shows up
Am I the only one who likes the Battle Tower more than the Battle Tree? Don't get me wrong, it's super lame that there's no banlist whatsoever and you can just bring your Eternatus + box legends in there and wreck shit without any effort, but if you choose to limit yourself from using those mons (like I do), it's actually pretty fun still. I'm at ~100 wins in both Doubles and Singles, and I'm already having way more fun with this than I ever did slogging up to a 50-streak in Super Singles in SM. Sure, it kind of lacks long-term appeal, but I'll take that any day over the utter frustration that was the Battle Tree.
On that note, I've been having pretty good success with this core in both Doubles and Singles:
Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Corviknight-Gmax @ Choice Band
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- Body Press
- U-turn
It's pretty self-explanatory; these Pokemon are all super good on their own and cover each other's weaknesses extremely well, with very few shared between them. They're all designed to hit whatever's in front of them super hard, and factoring in Dynamax, there are very few (if any) teams in the Tower that this core can't muscle past. T-Tar and Excadrill are the bread and butter of this core, with T-Tar providing prolonged Sandstorm support and clearing the way for Excadrill, and Excadrill coming in once the table is set to clean house. Corviknight is mainly meant to function as a pivot for the other two, utilizing its superb defensive typing and bulk to find opportunities to switch in and either OHKO something with a CB-boosted Brave Bird or U-Turn out. (An Assault Vest may be seen as more appealing to provide some extra bulk, but I prefer the raw power of the Choice Band.) The G-Max on Corviknight is just for show, though G-Max Wind Rage does provide a nice option for dealing with entry hazards, rare as they are in the Battle Tower.
On that note, I've been having pretty good success with this core in both Doubles and Singles:
Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Thunder Punch
Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
Corviknight-Gmax @ Choice Band
Ability: Mirror Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Impish Nature
- Brave Bird
- Iron Head
- Body Press
- U-turn
It's pretty self-explanatory; these Pokemon are all super good on their own and cover each other's weaknesses extremely well, with very few shared between them. They're all designed to hit whatever's in front of them super hard, and factoring in Dynamax, there are very few (if any) teams in the Tower that this core can't muscle past. T-Tar and Excadrill are the bread and butter of this core, with T-Tar providing prolonged Sandstorm support and clearing the way for Excadrill, and Excadrill coming in once the table is set to clean house. Corviknight is mainly meant to function as a pivot for the other two, utilizing its superb defensive typing and bulk to find opportunities to switch in and either OHKO something with a CB-boosted Brave Bird or U-Turn out. (An Assault Vest may be seen as more appealing to provide some extra bulk, but I prefer the raw power of the Choice Band.) The G-Max on Corviknight is just for show, though G-Max Wind Rage does provide a nice option for dealing with entry hazards, rare as they are in the Battle Tower.
Last edited:
I am actually trying to put a team together for this format. I need to know what I wanna use.
Last gen, I used Mega Gyarados, Aegislash, and Naganadel.
Immediately, Eternatus practically fills the Naganadel void, but I don't wanna resort to Eternatus.
I have some ideas, and I'd love to know what people think!
Dragapult - Fast, and can quickly U-Turn out of trouble.
Corviknight - Resists lots of shit, safe for Dragapult to switch into, can itself U-Turn
Tyranitar - Completes the Steel-Dark-Dragon core. Brings all the good shit to the table the Ttar usually brings. Sadly stacks a Fairy weakness.
Aegislash - Aegislash is god-like in battle facilities, though I don't know how it holds up nowadays. I always used Leftovers Mixed Attacker. 252 SpA, 252 HP, 4 Att, Quiet Nature, King's Shield/Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword. I would love to use this, but it conflicts with my original plan of using Dragapult by stacking the Ghost typing.
To go with Aegis, I was kinda thinking:
Hydreigon - Raw BST and has ways of handling Fairies, right down to just U-Turning out.
Silvally Fairy - As a fringe pick. Fairy would technically complete the core on paper. It's got one of the most reliable Fairy STABs, can pivot, and has good coverage. Although he isn't particularly fast, that would be an issue.
Obviously, just be reading through this, you can see I'm having trouble deciding. Any advice would be helpful. Other suggestions I've been giving are:
Ferrothorn - Ol' reliable. I hesitate cause he's no Aegislash, and Power Whip is unreliable for a win streak with its accuracy.
Durant - Another fringe pick. Just Swarm Durant to avoid Truant and Hustle's drawbacks. Amazing typing, plus bulk, speed, and decent power.
Copperajah - Big, fat Steel type, welcome on just about every core.
Last gen, I used Mega Gyarados, Aegislash, and Naganadel.
Immediately, Eternatus practically fills the Naganadel void, but I don't wanna resort to Eternatus.
I have some ideas, and I'd love to know what people think!
Dragapult - Fast, and can quickly U-Turn out of trouble.
Corviknight - Resists lots of shit, safe for Dragapult to switch into, can itself U-Turn
Tyranitar - Completes the Steel-Dark-Dragon core. Brings all the good shit to the table the Ttar usually brings. Sadly stacks a Fairy weakness.
Aegislash - Aegislash is god-like in battle facilities, though I don't know how it holds up nowadays. I always used Leftovers Mixed Attacker. 252 SpA, 252 HP, 4 Att, Quiet Nature, King's Shield/Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword. I would love to use this, but it conflicts with my original plan of using Dragapult by stacking the Ghost typing.
To go with Aegis, I was kinda thinking:
Hydreigon - Raw BST and has ways of handling Fairies, right down to just U-Turning out.
Silvally Fairy - As a fringe pick. Fairy would technically complete the core on paper. It's got one of the most reliable Fairy STABs, can pivot, and has good coverage. Although he isn't particularly fast, that would be an issue.
Obviously, just be reading through this, you can see I'm having trouble deciding. Any advice would be helpful. Other suggestions I've been giving are:
Ferrothorn - Ol' reliable. I hesitate cause he's no Aegislash, and Power Whip is unreliable for a win streak with its accuracy.
Durant - Another fringe pick. Just Swarm Durant to avoid Truant and Hustle's drawbacks. Amazing typing, plus bulk, speed, and decent power.
Copperajah - Big, fat Steel type, welcome on just about every core.
Have you noticed any issues handling special sweepers with this team, or are they just not that common to worry about when you get to the upper levels of the Battle Tower? If you haven't noticed any issues with special sweepers, what weaknesses HAVE you noticed with this team?
I haven't run into many issues with special sweepers in the tower; most of 'em just get smacked before they get a chance to sweep due to their frailty. As for weaknesses I have noticed, mostly bulky Waters and Grounds, which is why I usually run Appletun alongside this team in Doubles. Aegislash is also a big problem due to its ability to completely wall Corviknight and take out T-Tar and Excadrill with ease if they don't kill it first. Opposing Corviknight can also wall this team somewhat, though it struggles to hit back most of the time (and can usually be broken through with a quick Dynamax). Leon's Charizard can also be a run-ender if T-Tar isn't alive to deal with it, so I'd suggest keeping him in the back for those fights, though Excadrill can also work in a pinch with Rock Slide. (It holds a Charti Berry, but a Max Rockfall should be enough to OHKO it regardless.) Of course, random Fighting-type moves are always something to watch out for, as those will kill T-Tar pretty much every time.
Last edited:
There are a small number of Trainers other than Leon who are able to Dynamax their Pokémon. Notably, the Dynamax armband is on those Trainers' character models and can be seen in the "versus" screen when the battle starts. All the ones identified so far are at the very end of the Tower data dump with the multiple versions of Leon, but I'm not sure where it "starts" on the list.
To my knowledge, every non-Tower AI capable of using Dynamax saves it for a specific final Pokémon and uses it on that Pokémon's first turn out. This also applies to Leon in the Tower, but -does not- apply to non-Leon Dynamax users in the Tower. I've seen a Dynamax-capable AI use it on their lead as well as their other Pokémon, and I've seen them not use Dynamax at all despite it being the exact same Trainer using it in a previous fight.
My question is, what is the non-Leon Dynamax-using AI's impetus for activating Dynamax in the Tower? Does it have to be a good type matchup, either offensively or defensively? Do they have to outspeed you? Are there any Pokémon exempt from this rule (I've seen one avoid Dynamaxing as Ditto, though it was not Impostor Ditto)? Do they have to have full HP at the time of use (the previous Ditto did not die on Turn 1 after Transforming into my Clefable)?
To my knowledge, every non-Tower AI capable of using Dynamax saves it for a specific final Pokémon and uses it on that Pokémon's first turn out. This also applies to Leon in the Tower, but -does not- apply to non-Leon Dynamax users in the Tower. I've seen a Dynamax-capable AI use it on their lead as well as their other Pokémon, and I've seen them not use Dynamax at all despite it being the exact same Trainer using it in a previous fight.
My question is, what is the non-Leon Dynamax-using AI's impetus for activating Dynamax in the Tower? Does it have to be a good type matchup, either offensively or defensively? Do they have to outspeed you? Are there any Pokémon exempt from this rule (I've seen one avoid Dynamaxing as Ditto, though it was not Impostor Ditto)? Do they have to have full HP at the time of use (the previous Ditto did not die on Turn 1 after Transforming into my Clefable)?
From the looks of things, the few species that get sets 5-8 may have those specific sets (which are otherwise identical to 1-4 except for their IV tier) flagged as being able to dynamax, in which case the impetus is probably the same as mega evolution: "If you ever have a Pokemon out that is capable of doing this, always do so at the first opportunity."
Other than Leon, there are only five trainers that have the flag that appears to be "force a specific set into the last slot on their team":
Schoolboy Theodore gets Gothitelle1 (the set with a completely useless Razor Fang since all its moves are already flinch-capable including Fake Out; in the battle text when you fight him, he talks about flinching to go along with that set)
Poke Kid Kaelie gets Ditto5 (this has Brightpowder and is NOT dynamax-capable; her battle text talks about catching Pokemon in the Wild Area)
Pokemon Breeder Winslow gets Wailord2 (with Soak and Fissure; his battle text talks about using the nursery to get egg moves)
Worker Ultan gets Copperajah4 (with both Heavy Slam and Heat Crash; he talks about moves based on weight)
League Staff Claus gets Barbaracle4 (the same Razor Claw/high crit machine it's always been; he talks about critical hits in the battle text, naturally)
So those team-locks have nothing to do with the max-capable sets, except for Leon of course. There's another field that's 5 for Leon's Charizard sets and 0 for everything else; I suspect this might be the dynamax level (which would cause Charizard to have 1.75x health when it goes max, and everything else just gets the basic 1.5x). It may be difficult to test for that, but now that you know what to look for, you may be able to do so.
Other than Leon, there are only five trainers that have the flag that appears to be "force a specific set into the last slot on their team":
Schoolboy Theodore gets Gothitelle1 (the set with a completely useless Razor Fang since all its moves are already flinch-capable including Fake Out; in the battle text when you fight him, he talks about flinching to go along with that set)
Poke Kid Kaelie gets Ditto5 (this has Brightpowder and is NOT dynamax-capable; her battle text talks about catching Pokemon in the Wild Area)
Pokemon Breeder Winslow gets Wailord2 (with Soak and Fissure; his battle text talks about using the nursery to get egg moves)
Worker Ultan gets Copperajah4 (with both Heavy Slam and Heat Crash; he talks about moves based on weight)
League Staff Claus gets Barbaracle4 (the same Razor Claw/high crit machine it's always been; he talks about critical hits in the battle text, naturally)
So those team-locks have nothing to do with the max-capable sets, except for Leon of course. There's another field that's 5 for Leon's Charizard sets and 0 for everything else; I suspect this might be the dynamax level (which would cause Charizard to have 1.75x health when it goes max, and everything else just gets the basic 1.5x). It may be difficult to test for that, but now that you know what to look for, you may be able to do so.
I threw up a Singles rental team.
ID: 0000 0005 NB3G PC
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (HT)
Jolly Nature (Mint)
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Power Whip
Eternatus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (HT)
Timid Nature (Mint)
- Dynamax Cannon
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
It's a basic Dragon/Water/Steel team. Initially, I led with Gyarados, but decided to lead with Zacian since Gyarados covers its weaknesses perfectly. I also had LO Eternatus, but it was a bit lacking in power and the recoil was annoying, so I slapped Specs on it instead. It rarely comes out, so it's not a big deal.
The team is self-explanatory. Zacian solos most opponents, and Gyarados is one of the best Dynamax users. Just be careful around certain Ground-types and Electric-types. I wouldn't use this for a serious streak, but if you just want to beat Master Rank Leon in Singles, this is a nice team.
ID: 0000 0005 NB3G PC
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe (HT)
Jolly Nature (Mint)
- Swords Dance
- Play Rough
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Power Whip
Eternatus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe (HT)
Timid Nature (Mint)
- Dynamax Cannon
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Wave
It's a basic Dragon/Water/Steel team. Initially, I led with Gyarados, but decided to lead with Zacian since Gyarados covers its weaknesses perfectly. I also had LO Eternatus, but it was a bit lacking in power and the recoil was annoying, so I slapped Specs on it instead. It rarely comes out, so it's not a big deal.
The team is self-explanatory. Zacian solos most opponents, and Gyarados is one of the best Dynamax users. Just be careful around certain Ground-types and Electric-types. I wouldn't use this for a serious streak, but if you just want to beat Master Rank Leon in Singles, this is a nice team.
Hey friends! Glad to see there's some discussion here, regardless of the massive changes of how the Battle Tower works this gen. I miss my Battle Maison streak :(
Anyway, was brainstorming some ideas on how to play around with Dynamax in Doubles and ended up making this team:
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch
- Encore
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- U-turn
Eternatus @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Protect
The focus is mostly on the first two. Hawlucha and Zacian make a FEARSOME combo. Honestly, a Zacian coming in at +1 already wrecks most opponents, and it's good for killing things off that might be faster than Hawlucha and could take it out. (Note that I don't know anything about the Speed tiers or sets as of right now, so I'm going off assumptions and playing it safe against potentially quick opponents with strong moves like Noivern or Ribombee.) What usually happens on turn 1 is that Hawlucha Dynamaxes - which, by the way, protects it from flinching, and that's lit - and uses Max Lightning, which does decent damage for the most part, but more importantly, it summons Electric Terrain, which then means Hawlucha gets +1 Defense and doubled Speed thanks to Electric Seed + Unburden. From there it can go for some Max Knuckles to keep boosting its and Zacian's Attack, or an Airstream if necessary to up their Speed, though the two are usually plenty fast enough. So far, I've never run into a situation where Hawlucha died before even acting; sometimes it dies in Dynamax stage, but Zacian is still good enough to handle most things. I honestly wasn't planning on using Zacian at first, but I caught it in a Beast Ball and knew I had to, so I Hyper Trained and Minted that boy as soon as possible. Zacian's moveset I've found to be solid, with Close Combat over Sacred Sword for the extra oomph (I've found it to be useful in OHKOing targets like Gastrodon), Crunch for Aegislash, and Psychic Fangs over Play Rough for the accuracy.
The other two members of my team are much less thought out, to be honest. I just picked Darmanitan for being such a strong choice on paper, slapped a Choice Scarf on it to complement its Ability, and let it take care of things if Hawlucha or Zacian ever died. Ice Punch over Icicle Spear for the accuracy, and I just threw on other seemingly appropriate moves. Eternatus I care about even less; for a little while I just had a member of my in-game team in this slot. I only picked it because I was tired of breeding and also thought it might have value as a special sweeper. I'd prefer not to use it, though. I couldn't even be bothered to find the Sludge Bomb TR so I just slapped Wave on it, and it might be better suited for Singles, to be honest.
It's been a solid team to use, but I've only played 22 Master Tier battles with it so far. Looking to make improvements, specifically:
- Would Jolly be beneficial to have over Adamant on Hawlucha? Is it missing anything important in its current Speed tier?
- Likewise, would Darmanitan prefer the extra oomph of an Adamant nature?
- Any moveset recommendations? Brave Bird > Acrobatics, Swords Dance on Zacian, etc?
- Who should I replace Eternatus with?
Anyway, was brainstorming some ideas on how to play around with Dynamax in Doubles and ended up making this team:
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch
- Encore
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Flare Blitz
- Superpower
- U-turn
Eternatus @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Wave
- Flamethrower
- Protect
The focus is mostly on the first two. Hawlucha and Zacian make a FEARSOME combo. Honestly, a Zacian coming in at +1 already wrecks most opponents, and it's good for killing things off that might be faster than Hawlucha and could take it out. (Note that I don't know anything about the Speed tiers or sets as of right now, so I'm going off assumptions and playing it safe against potentially quick opponents with strong moves like Noivern or Ribombee.) What usually happens on turn 1 is that Hawlucha Dynamaxes - which, by the way, protects it from flinching, and that's lit - and uses Max Lightning, which does decent damage for the most part, but more importantly, it summons Electric Terrain, which then means Hawlucha gets +1 Defense and doubled Speed thanks to Electric Seed + Unburden. From there it can go for some Max Knuckles to keep boosting its and Zacian's Attack, or an Airstream if necessary to up their Speed, though the two are usually plenty fast enough. So far, I've never run into a situation where Hawlucha died before even acting; sometimes it dies in Dynamax stage, but Zacian is still good enough to handle most things. I honestly wasn't planning on using Zacian at first, but I caught it in a Beast Ball and knew I had to, so I Hyper Trained and Minted that boy as soon as possible. Zacian's moveset I've found to be solid, with Close Combat over Sacred Sword for the extra oomph (I've found it to be useful in OHKOing targets like Gastrodon), Crunch for Aegislash, and Psychic Fangs over Play Rough for the accuracy.
The other two members of my team are much less thought out, to be honest. I just picked Darmanitan for being such a strong choice on paper, slapped a Choice Scarf on it to complement its Ability, and let it take care of things if Hawlucha or Zacian ever died. Ice Punch over Icicle Spear for the accuracy, and I just threw on other seemingly appropriate moves. Eternatus I care about even less; for a little while I just had a member of my in-game team in this slot. I only picked it because I was tired of breeding and also thought it might have value as a special sweeper. I'd prefer not to use it, though. I couldn't even be bothered to find the Sludge Bomb TR so I just slapped Wave on it, and it might be better suited for Singles, to be honest.
It's been a solid team to use, but I've only played 22 Master Tier battles with it so far. Looking to make improvements, specifically:
- Would Jolly be beneficial to have over Adamant on Hawlucha? Is it missing anything important in its current Speed tier?
- Likewise, would Darmanitan prefer the extra oomph of an Adamant nature?
- Any moveset recommendations? Brave Bird > Acrobatics, Swords Dance on Zacian, etc?
- Who should I replace Eternatus with?
Do you mind sharing this team as a rental team so we could try it out? :)
I'm quite nonplussed that zacian's probably standard battle tower set will not have a fairy move. And that using him at all, and eternatus, is possible... And that dynamaxing is so op
Nothing's stopping you from just not using them. It surely sounds a lot more fun that way.
Well tbh the battle tower is so bare bones in swish that I'll probably just more or less pass on it again, like I did with the battle tree. Disappointing.
Can two Pokemon have the same held item on the same team if you enter them into the Battle Tower? Or was that one restriction that they kept?
That is a restriction they kept.
I know it's been talked about before (and it's kind of beating a dead horse at this point) but the real tragedy of the Battle Tower is the removal of metrics for success. If they had simply just implemented... that, we could have made something fun out of this trainwreck.
In the past, this community has always metagamed around the less-than-stellar things Gamefreak decided to make; we've created our own games from the framework they provide. We create our own stuff, from their stuff; we make fun out of not-fun. That's sort of why Smogon exists.
This time, the framework is so bad, we can't even come up with goofy metagames to play in this generation's battle facility because there's no way to show it off, nor any way to prove you handicapped yourself the whole way. The battles cap out very quickly. The AI hardly utilizes the new mechanics.
Even completely ignoring the community side of things, the Battle Tower is not even a good minigame within the context of just the game files vs. the player. It can barely be called a game within the game; it's basically another linear arm of the story with "endboss" Leon. The way the rewards are structured, Master Ball rank feels like a finite endpoint, so it doesn't even give us the satisfaction of in-game currency, either (2 BP per additional battle is awful). The least they could do was give us scaling BP rewards.
It's an erasure of an enormous gameplay loop that to me, feels particularly maddening considering all they had to do was stretch out that loop (only takes code, not additional art), and simply... show your streak. Just display it on the damn screen. The gameplay bang for their coding buck is massive in that regard, so for them to strip out all those features this time around, makes me think this is just how they wanted it to be, sadly.
This rant is mostly pointless but my hope is this generation was simply rushed out the door, and that Sword and Shield 2 will have some semblance of a battle facility from earlier gens (if we even get sequels).
In the past, this community has always metagamed around the less-than-stellar things Gamefreak decided to make; we've created our own games from the framework they provide. We create our own stuff, from their stuff; we make fun out of not-fun. That's sort of why Smogon exists.
This time, the framework is so bad, we can't even come up with goofy metagames to play in this generation's battle facility because there's no way to show it off, nor any way to prove you handicapped yourself the whole way. The battles cap out very quickly. The AI hardly utilizes the new mechanics.
Even completely ignoring the community side of things, the Battle Tower is not even a good minigame within the context of just the game files vs. the player. It can barely be called a game within the game; it's basically another linear arm of the story with "endboss" Leon. The way the rewards are structured, Master Ball rank feels like a finite endpoint, so it doesn't even give us the satisfaction of in-game currency, either (2 BP per additional battle is awful). The least they could do was give us scaling BP rewards.
It's an erasure of an enormous gameplay loop that to me, feels particularly maddening considering all they had to do was stretch out that loop (only takes code, not additional art), and simply... show your streak. Just display it on the damn screen. The gameplay bang for their coding buck is massive in that regard, so for them to strip out all those features this time around, makes me think this is just how they wanted it to be, sadly.
This rant is mostly pointless but my hope is this generation was simply rushed out the door, and that Sword and Shield 2 will have some semblance of a battle facility from earlier gens (if we even get sequels).
Perhaps it's just because I haven't finished making real sets with synergy yet, but the Tower doesn't seem worlds worse from a battle perspective. I think my least favorite thing is having to fight Leon so often, though a fair number of his 'Mons are pretty threatening so there's challenge to be had in that. How many of the people lamenting the death of the Battle Tower were even hitting 100+ streaks in the previous games? I imagine it's still fine for most of the people posting in this thread, myself included, especially if D-Max and the legendaries go unused.
I think there's some merit to the idea that the new Tower has a different feel because of how many options are missing from the engine itself. The AI can't threaten as much when a lot of the legendary 'Mons and previous top tier options are unavailable, so your worst matchups are often easier to overcome. This may be exacerbated by the idea that some of the new 'Mons are still pushing the envelope on power despite average offensive and defensive "power" being lower across the board, so you can overload them easily with a handful like G-Darmanitan, but I don't have much of a sample size to say as it is.
I dunno. I think there's way more dogpiling than the current setup really warrants. I could be wrong, but I should be able to actually give it a real shot soon now that I have the means to breed mean squads.
I think there's some merit to the idea that the new Tower has a different feel because of how many options are missing from the engine itself. The AI can't threaten as much when a lot of the legendary 'Mons and previous top tier options are unavailable, so your worst matchups are often easier to overcome. This may be exacerbated by the idea that some of the new 'Mons are still pushing the envelope on power despite average offensive and defensive "power" being lower across the board, so you can overload them easily with a handful like G-Darmanitan, but I don't have much of a sample size to say as it is.
I dunno. I think there's way more dogpiling than the current setup really warrants. I could be wrong, but I should be able to actually give it a real shot soon now that I have the means to breed mean squads.
Last edited:
i agree there is in general a lot of negative dogpiling for Sw/Sh and some here for the new battle tower.
For the record I never submited my own records here that I can recall but I was able to get my 200 win streak ultra rare berry using a couple different durant teams I stole from the leader board in previous gems. So I very much know what it is like to have a long streak and also lose a big streak. Actually I think I have a 300 streak still active in sun and moon that I planned on completing and submitting but I lost interest in it after I got my berry and had tens of thousands of BP.
Here's my two sense: the basic mechanics of the tower IMO are fine. the major changes to the community here for record keeping is that streaks are not tracked individually and it does not ever autosave. There is a community solution here and it is an honor system of submitting appropriate screenshots. The integrity of records here forward will depend solely on the integrity of the community. I do think actually the greatest loss to the battle tower that I haven't seen mentioned super much is you can't record losing battles. I always thought that let you learn a lot about a potential teams weaknesses if you planned on using it to farm wins.
Regarding the overall meta and using legends in the battle tower: well as of right now we really only have three to choose from (4 with mew) and lets be honest Zacian is completely broken in the battle tower. Base 720 stats the same as arceus with arguably better distribution in speed and attack, one of the best dual types in the game in sword form and really great coverage options if you drop swords dance. Oh and it gets a free attack boost every time it enters battle on top of that with it's base 170 attack. It is really only outsped by I think ninjask (lol) or swift swimmers on rain teams (none really threaten it that I've ran into) or the one scary threat to him sand rush excadrill in the sand, (but it singles it would need pretty much a tyranitar lead or a sturdy sand setter).
For percpective my Zacian is Jolly not even adamant with max speed and attack and it is still 1 shotting even some neutral hits on bulky water types. There have been plenty of hits in OHKO range in my streak that would be secured switching to adamant which I probably should be.
Eternatus is slightly less broken than Zacian but he still holds good raw power and dwarfs pokemon like the starters just in raw stats.
I personally lead with these two in singles and doubles even stacking a ground weakness and barring a nasty Super effective crit I usually survive to revenge kill the threat.
So having said all of that the community will likely need to set up a non uber tier to track records if only because Zacian in general is really busted in sword form. But like I said earlier the integrity of the leaderboard will depend on the integrity of it's community here.
Having said all that: I spent hours farming HA durant just for battle tower when I realized it was available and honestly I'm kind of relieved that I don't really need him to get a reliable streak. My older teams typical battles were like 12 turns of just boosting and protecting a turn of entrainment and swapping out. (if my sweeper died then it was another 14 turns on top of that) then best case scenario 3 turns of sweeping. that was with mega blaziken who is fairly quick at setting up within truant protect windows. drapion users I think took quite a bit longer and more patience to set up.
so yea having said all that. I'm kind of ready to retire durant and glad he doesn't feel as required for just casual BP farming.
Maybe not a lot of people were able to reach a basic 100 win milestone. But how many people were attempting it, and got the bulk of their gameplay out of aiming for the game-approved 100 win streak, even if they never reached it? As minor of a change as it may seem at first glance, having the game track your record gives people a tangible goal and a reason for playing. Even if the battles themselves haven't really changed, simply removing the streaks has taken away many people's motivation for playing this mode at all. That does affect people on both a casual and a more serious level.
My main problem with this iteration of the Battle Tower is that the amount of BP you can get at a reasonable rate is essentially finite. The rewards you get from levelling up are big, and the base rewards for competing a battle are negligible and never increase, meaning that people probably won't play much casually because the grind is prohibitively annoying.
I mean, you have to complete 33 battles in total to get to Master Ball rank. After that, you have to do almost that many over again to get enough BP for *one item*.
I mean, you have to complete 33 battles in total to get to Master Ball rank. After that, you have to do almost that many over again to get enough BP for *one item*.
I think it’s always one step forward and two back like always. I think the intention of getting free items like mints and bottle caps every ten wins or so was supposed to offset, except they aren’t the reason we grind bp anyways.
On teams though, I’m liking my Corviknight/Dragapult core. Leading with Dragapult and U turn to Corviknight has won me quite a few battles when Dragapult is disadvantaged. But I need a third mon. My current one isn’t cutting it. Ideas?