SM OU A Braindead HO I used to get to 1900

[Tungstennedge]

Introduction​

So I don't play mons seriously, but I like being higher on the ladder, 1700+ since up there its more fun since people play somewhat more logically, and this is the team I like to get to those elo's after I inevitably lose all my point when not using this team. It has a few glaring weaknesses, and I'm wondering if anyone can think of any improvements. If you can think of any changes I can make to counter some of the weakness, I would greatly appreciate the help.

The things that are very threatening to this team are: surprise defoggers (there are so many now, sometimes you didnt expect a certain mon to be the defogger, can often be costly).
rapid spin
serperior
magearna
fat trickroom

The jist of this team, and the way it functions is after getting webs up, your mons just hit harder, and are faster, and very easily find a sweep. Either setup on defoggers to punish or switch to one of the defiant mons. Using defog punishers in bish and thunderus help keep webs up, but often dont even enough value even when they are defogged on. Right now, the main problem with this team, is upon seeing serp, the game is already almost over, the team has no grass resist and not a single mon which outspeeds since webs speed serp up. Also, offensive magearna, and even av are massive treats since only ttar can even 2hit ko mag. Teams with koko, or pex celes core can be a challenge but are still often winnable.

Another common way to loose is z move users setting up on an encore from shucke, simple ignore the encore with the z move and procede to sweep the team.

Teambuilding Process​

When building this team, I saw blunder using this in a heatah fahita, I stole 4 of the mons, removed mimikyu and added kart and massively changed fini's set.

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**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

**Why did you choose this pokemon?**

The Team

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
​

**Why did you choose this pokemon? What does it do for your team?**

Bisharp is one of two defog punishers, although it rarely gets actually gets defiant since most players will try to predict and hit bisharp when it comes in. Common defoggers like zapdos, torn, rotom, ect, usually throw out a heatwave or willow as it comes out. However, sometimes when allowed to sd or if someone defogs on this mon, it can often sweep or get a few kills, however, with suckerpunch mindgames, substitute, and low speed tier mean often bisharp is uderwhelming in this team. However, this poke is needed on the team as it helps massively in breaking non-quagsire stall, with tapu fini support of blocking status. Unfortunately when you do run into quagsire stall, usually the only out to win is an ironhead flinch on quagsire with this mon.

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
​

This mon gets up webs. Sometimes rocks too. Encore is to not get set up on, and infestation can be used to keep enemy mons in as they kill you so you can either setup with a setup sweeper or revenge the mon, preventing foes from just switching out to a defogger and defogging.

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Fly
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up
​

Another defog punisher, this is the most expendable member of the team, but can also do the most work since it is only really outsped by scarf lando when webs are up, and torn. (except torn cant really touch this mon). Supersonic skystrike can surprisingly be used by doubling this mon in on a bulky grass type and just killing it, for whatever reason almost no one ever switches against this mon when you double it in. Bulk up is useful against weak physical attackers since it often lets you take an additional hit and then get an ohko with supersonic skystrike, which is good since it is super frustrating when things survive the Z since using fly lets then switch out and wild charge and knock off are easily walled by some of the mons you often need to kill/ weaken with this mon, such as ferro, lando, torn, latty, fini, ect.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Protect
​

Fini, the mon that holds this team together. Never let this mon get damaged vs hawlucha, its the only way to live and revenge it, and keep it healtly vs gren. it Some games it is used for status blocking for the other mons vs toxic spikes, static zap, ect. Other games, with max special attack it can clean up three or four mons with one calm mind in the endgame. So many games are mon with fini getting extreme value in the endgame, surviving attacks like koko tbolt with a calm mind and otherwise doing insane damage considering it survives almost any nonstab supereffective hit. For some examples of what it can do, it outspeeds kyurem black and kills after rock. it takes 45 from garchomp offensive and ohkos any variant back. it takes 60 from lando adamant and kills it back, put with two protects, one on before and one after that attack it effectively only takes 48. it calm minds vs alakazam, and protects every other turn to kill it with 45% hp left, still enough to check gren, Also used to reven +2 hawlucha. (lives most of the time, but dies most of the time when rocks are up) Protect may seem like an interesting choice instead of defog, but i find I never click defog since if I have no webs Im usually gonna loose. Protect also comes in clutch what in an insane number of games. Vs kart, originally a huge treat to this team is somewhat neatralized by protect, as you can protect to scout its move and act accordingly.

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Dragon Dance
​

Primary sweeper. Sweeps amazingly easily vs teams with no scarf lando, or any offence team in general. With webs+ dd you outspeed every mon, and ohko nearly everything back. Notably in a pinch, this fat bitch can even setup on weak grass and defensive lando/ chomp as it easily lives and ohko's with ice punch. Honely it feels gross mon many teams this mon straight up sweeps with one dd, the only mons i can think of right not that tank after one dd are lopunny, celestela, pex, tran, and clef, and some mag sets However, pex and clef, non z tran and celes all cannot revenve back in one turn.

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
​

The most heat mon, in the since it does SO much damage. All pex gets 2hit ko with leafblade. If they have bulu, u one hit offensive torn in grassy terrian. Simply used to break tru teams, as kart does, effectively band and scarf at the same time, sometimes powerful enough to break trough its own counters, like zap celes with just a little chip on it. I'm considering using sd kart but cant find this same success, since it become less of a threat to zap, and pex, as you can no longer immediately treaten them (z giga impact could work). This mon is will sweep almost any team if out speeders are killed, and you have adequate sacks remaining to switch moves (not including stall)


Conclusion

Whats nice about this team is it requires very little skill to play, often after you know the matchup you just play in a certain way and it leads to certain victory. It has some weaknesses tho (rapid spin, stall with the unaware, mag, serp). Whats nice is vs over 50% of common teams seen in ou, this team wins the matchup, so without misplay, you can win. ​

Importable

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wild Charge
- Fly
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Tyranitar-Mega @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Dragon Dance

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off

Here is ladder peak proof: I am #49 in this photo

 

[Sayuze]

Proof of peak?

 

[Tungstennedge]

my account tungstenedge is at rank 77 right now.

 

[bigtalk]

Very nice team, "braindead HO" is a playstyle I very much enjoy using haha. I'll give your team a try later and let you know if I have feedback.

 

[bigtalk]

Ok I've been testing out the team a little and changed a couple of things.

New Thundurus Set

Thundurus @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 240 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Wild Charge
- Fly
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Bulk Up

As you said the team is extremely weak to Kartana, I also realized it actually loses to Mega Scizor at team preview. So I decided to replace knock with HP Fire, this will allow it to OHKO Kartana and threaten Scizor / Ferrothorn once it has expended its Z-move. The given spread lets you survive 2 leaf blades from scarf Kart and 2HKO the 248 HP / 244 SpD Scizor spread that was uploaded recently with HP Fire.

Fini Changes

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 176 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Protect

I changed Surf to Scald in order for the burn chance on flying-types / Tapu Bulu (which like Kart, is a major threat to this team). I stole the 16 Defense EVs from the Smogon analysis, which allow you to take Hawlucha's +2 Acrobatics after SR and leftovers. The speed lets you outspeed Garchomp under webs, and spdef Heatran w/o webs.

 

[bigtalk]

Here's another Fini set you may want to consider:

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Taunt

You outspeed up to Zapdos & can Taunt to prevent Defog / Haze / hazards, since you lack hazard control. It also lets you live a Kart leaf blade from full.

Btw another mon I noticed that you can't really deal with is Diancie, it anti-leads everything except Tapu Fini. How do you deal with it, do you lead Kart and bluff scarf?

 

[Ninjakiwis]

Shuckle @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 6
EVs: 236 Def / 236 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Endure

This set lets shuckle set up rocks and webs
Berry juice lets shuckle heal to full.
Endure helps against hazards, and lets shuckle heal to full

This set was better for me on ladder.

 

[Tungstennedge]

Ok, I been busy for a while and just saw these replies, and while I haven't had time to try any of the suggestions given yet, I can say how I deal with some of the matchups you guys have encountered.

Mega scizor

While this seems like a big threat, in reality, this team can deal with it ok. ttar lives +2 bp quite easily, just don't witch it furiously in on a u turn. thunderus can also bulk up and skystrike to bring it down to low enough hp to kill will a wildcharge after or revenge kill it with kart if it knocks u out.

Tabu Bulu

While i have occasionally lost a wincon to a surprise scarf or banded bulu, most people the first time they play this team switch to bulu vs thunderus and loose it, even at 1900.

Diance

When i first started using this team i would monoloose to diance, but for whatever reason, i noticed that 70% of players stay in vs fni lead and just loose it to a surf. When they switch out vs fini turn one, that opens up the game but also they never mega'd so many times it gives u the chance to gets webs up.

Anyways, I want to try bigtalks fini set, I never bothered to calc speed tiers and hawlucha rolls but it sounds like it could improve this team.

As for lvl 6 shuckle, it seems smart, but I often use shuckle in the midgame to encore a sweeper into a certain move so my team is not 6-0'd, so I dont think i will adopt this change, as rocks are very helpful but not necessary.

As for thunderus, a surpisingly common stop to it doing for work is ttar, so superpower could be good, but then it would require sparing your z for mons like latty, and there would no longer be the possibility of knocking specs or scarf from koko which often saves the game.

 

[bigtalk]

As for thunderus, a surpisingly common stop to it doing for work is ttar, so superpower could be good, but then it would require sparing your z for mons like latty, and there would no longer be the possibility of knocking specs or scarf from koko which often saves the game.

Maybe a 4 attacks set would help then. Tbolt / Fly / Knock / Superpower?

 

[Karl Abdul]

I've been using this team for a while now and here's my experience:
Created a new accout to try it out and got to 1900 with a 83-32 w/l.

I dont agree that thundy is the most expandable. Thundy often sweeps and people bring in nonscarf-lando against it even after revealing defiant which gives free boosts. SSSS often gets surprise kills.

As you said, Fini is definitely one of the MVPs. The CM set is rarely expected and often leads to surprise kills against threats like M-Medicham, Lando and sometimes Kommo-o if they try to stay in with poison jab.

Kart is amazing with webs.

People rarely expect encore from shuckle, and surprisingly many opt to stay in and keep setting up despite being encored, which often leads to a free switch and a free kill.

Ttar is so good after a dance+webs, not much to say.

Bisharp destroys stall lacking quagsire. Priority in the form of sucker punch is nice and has saved me a decent amount of games. Sadly it's a bit too slow and is usually the first sack.

Threat list:
1. Serperior. Serp absolutely destroys this team and it's pretty much a loss at team preview if they dont misplay. Leading thundurus is a neccessity vs serp, leading shuckle or anything else (except maybe ttar) will make the game end in 8 turns. I have been able to beat serp quite a few times by surprising them with thundy, but a well played serp is virtually unbeatable.

2. Zeraora. Like Serp, Zeraora is easily able to 6-0 this team. However unlike serp, if you get up webs you can beat it, but if shuckle dies and they have a defogger it's pretty much over since it can KO everything after 1 boost. Luckily it's not too common.

Those are the big 2. Fast electric types in general are annoying, tapu koko is a big threat but can be dealt with. Medicham and Mawile are really strong but if you play smart they aren't too bad. Often times medicham stays in vs fini and dies to moonblast. Mawile is harder since nothing can OHKO it. Usually i sack kart, thundy, or bisharp to get the damage needed to revenge with Ttar. Mega Diancie is annoying too but usually not too bothersome in my experience.

 

[LerisaBebelabs]

Hey! This team is actually great haha. Question though. The guy above mentioned that Serp is a threat and indeed it is. Out of 92 games overall, I only won 3 times against a Serp and 1 of which is because opponent dc'd LOL. How do you deal with Serp??

 

[Mechacharizard]

Hey, im a completely garbo OU player, like hardstuck at 1200-1300 elo type of bad (but then again I just make my own random teams for fun), and with this team I got from a fresh ranking to 1500 in just a few hours, so wow. You, and the other commentor here both seem to agree that bisharp is often lackluster and I agree too, most of the time hes just there to die, and rarely gets a meaningful sweep since I notice that all the other HO mons tend to sweep better in most situations. Have you tinkered with switching bisharp with other mons? I was thinking to maybe switch it with a rocky helmet lando, as it would allows me to switch into that mon without losing it (as opposed to always sacking bisharp) as well as could act as a really good pivot which also helps to chip enemies with the rocky helmet. What do you think? Or do you have any other ideas on mons that could replace bisharp?

 

[Mechacharizard]

To add onto my previous comment, i've also just recently been experimenting with Adamant choice banded mamoswine instead of bisharp too and have had some success with it too (maybe just because im low ladder though). Earthquake checks mag , I find ice shard to chip hard when webs aren't up, and also find it more reliable then the predictable sucker punch (ice shard is also predictable but with sucker punch the opponent can do things like setup in your face and other stuff like that), and its also very bulky allowing it to switch into a mon and deal some nice chip. It just hits like such a strong truck especially when webs are up, and if you are able to just get a little bit of damage on serperior, then she dies to ice shard too. Maybe its not better than bisharp, but again I am not necessarily the best at this game, and just want to share my ideas.

Thank you for sharing this team, I hope you don't mind me abusing it. I'm close to 1600's and hope to get to 1700s later in this month, which is WAY higher than any rank i've ever been before. If I get to top 500 on the ladder (which is 1740 rn) I'll be immensely happy. The good thing about this team is that it's play style is very simple, yet it is sometimes difficult for the opponent to outplay me because most of the movesets are very uncommon and unexpected.

EDIT: two other edits I made when climbing was giving scald to tapu fini, and switching out choice band on Kartana for life orb. I've talked to other people and I believe that life orb is a viable option on kart when webs are up, it still allows me to hit hard, but also allows me to use my other moves if the opponent switched out. So many games I am banded and the opponent switches out to check my move, but if i wasn't banded I could use my other move to kill that mon. For example a Tapu lele switching into my sacred sword when im locked into it, but if I wasn't locked, i could switch into leaf blade for the kill. Just things like that. I find that after getting one attack boost with life orb, the coverage allows me to sweep much easier. I know my comments are late and you probably won't read these for a couple days maybe even weeks, and I know you don't take mons super seriously, but I would appreciate your thoughts on all the things i've said in these last two large comments. Thanks mate and have a good day :)

 

[Tungstennedge]

@
Karl Abdul
I completely agree with just about everything you said. When I said Thundurus is expendable, I guess I would also have to mention that when "expending it" it often takes down a lot with it which is doing being quite useful. Also yes, serp is loss on team preview, but that's the cost of using just a straightforward team.

also @
Mechacharizard
I'm glad to see my team helping someone climb the ladder, and I'm sure there are many set variations that can be run and still work well, so I'm happy to hear your set variations are working well to help you climb.

Also on a side note, I'm currently perfecting an even more braindead triple final gambit team that might even beat this team in ease of use but it may just be a bit too gimmicky to be as good as this one.

 

[Malvesin]

Have you consider replacing bisharp with scizor? Because I often find myself using only 1 defiant out of the two, and scizor bring a priority that the team lacks,while providing the same coverage as bisharp (steel/dark). And the U-turn is quite useful.

 

[Darius Garland]

This squad is too powerful. I hadn't played mons in over a year. Loaded these boys up and I got over 1700 in less than a week

 

[Flares.]

wow dude nice team I got 6-0d twice vs it the other day I was getting real mad

 

[badabing]

6-0d this team twice with scizor. Heatran over Bisharp should tidy things up