A Competitive Stance: Of Clauses and Counters

[Yagami Light]

Gentlemen!

I've been perusing the various threads and whatnot here after a somewhat mild siesta and the issue I observe the most is the lack of a sturdy, proper stance on counters and clauses. Being the helpful human that I am, I am opting to attempt to assist you men (and women) in discerning the true from the false, the good from the bad. It's also mainly because I cannot sleep, and since I both proofread everything I type then say it mentally and I also love the sound of my own voice, this is a no brainer.

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The Competitive Standard : A Smogon Rule Set

Article 1; On Counters

I] A counter to an opposing Pokemon is henceforth defined as follows:

a) In the event of the counter Pokemon switching into the opposing Pokemon, there should be a favorable chance of the counter coming out on top, either by having the opposing Pokemon flee or be knocked out.

b) In the event of the opposing monster switching into the counter Pokemon, barring some hideous misfortune [Such as from items such as Brightpowder or Focus Sash], the counter Pokemon shall always win, bar none.

c) In the event of both parties entering the field at the same moment, the counter monster should have a sizable advantage and be able to incapacitate or flat out destroy the opponent with a significant chance of success, barring probability misfortunes. Significant is an undefined number, but henceforth will be recognized as "a percentage large enough to be an immediate threat".

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II] All counter Pokemon should be both feasible and practical. A haphazard moveset whose only effectiveness is to eliminate said threat should be overlooked, unless that particular enemy monster is a sole or particular danger to the user's team.

III] Intelligent play is assumed to be used by both parties. Knowledge or lack of information about other party members shall also be taken into account. It is henceforth to be assumed that both parties will play to the best of their ability [Their ability is hereby defined as top level metagame caliber] and select proper moves a vast majority of the time. A counter which relies on the error of the enemy is to be discarded.

IV] All counter Pokemon shall assume some level of stage effect to be in play. Counters more susceptible to the common hazards should take note of those and examine how they alter the chances detailed in Article 1; Section 1.

V] Upon a counter Pokemon failing to be adequate, another shall be formulated to take it's place. If no such Pokemon exists, the Pokemon is deemed to have no counter and, as such, virtually no downside of usage. Any Pokemon that is deemed to have little or no erroneous part shall be moved up a single tier [This article assumes 4 competitive tiers: Never Used, Under Used, Standard, Uber, which each Pokemon usable in it's tier and the tiers located above it] and the process shall be redone. The lack of a counter shall not be used for automatic tier level increase; it shall be used as an incentive to discuss the Pokemon intellectually and test it, so that an informed decision can be made.

VI] A lack of counter in any tier will result in the Pokemon being placed into the Uber tier. Uber tier is the only competitive metagame that is not deemed to be balanced. No Pokemon may be banned from the Uber tier under any circumstances.

VII] Each increase of the tier shall be reviewed by the peers of the people suggesting that said Pokemon be moved, and the informed and intelligent public shall cast consulting opinions on said matter.

Article 2; On Clauses

I] A clause is hereby defined as a restriction to the metagame, a change which limits situations, times or the manner in which a move or item may be used. Pokemon limits are to be enforced by clauses under extreme and rare scenarios, and should instead be subjected to Article 1.

II] A clause shall not be enacted to limit competitive moves or items without solid pretext and the will of the sizable amount of the general informed population.

III] A clause must be as simple as possible, failure to quantify the clause in simple terms [To as reasonable an extent as possible] shall be regarded as pertaining to a faulty clause, as shall be discarded until improved.

IV] Once implemented by the will of an informed and intellectual group, said clause will be used in all competitive environments.
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Maybe that was overkill .

A healthy waste of 30 minutes or so, heh. Tell me if you like it, please. If you want a section on something added, please tell me and I'll do the best I can.

 

[reachzero]

Obviously you put a lot of time and energy into this post, and it seems well thought-out....but why is it really necessary? What "problems" are we having with counters? The "clauses" section is a little more useful, since it does help us with OHKOs and evasion. The lack of a true counter, however, has little to do with whether a Pokemon should be Uber. Salamence is one of several examples of a Pokemon with no true counter that belongs solidly in OU.

 

[Jumpman16]

V] Upon a counter Pokemon failing to be adequate, another shall be formulated to take it's place. If no such Pokemon exists, the Pokemon is deemed to have no counter and, as such, virtually no downside of usage. Any Pokemon that is deemed to have little or no erroneous part shall be moved up a single tier [This article assumes 4 competitive tiers: Never Used, Under Used, Standard, Uber, which each Pokemon usable in it's tier and the tiers located above it] and the process shall be redone.

only this is impossible because literally everything in the game that hasn't been allowed to set up forever can be revenge killed by either a scarf pokemon or priority

 

[Yagami Light]

Obviously you put a lot of time and energy into this post, and it seems well thought-out....but why is it really necessary? What "problems" are we having with counters? The "clauses" section is a little more useful, since it does help us with OHKOs and evasion. The lack of a true counter, however, has little to do with whether a Pokemon should be Uber. Salamence is one of several examples of a Pokemon with no true counter that belongs solidly in OU.

Counters should not be THE defining step as to whether or not the Pokemon is uber. I appear to have missed a section detailing what happens in between the realization that there are no counters and what the procedures are, I'll edit that soon. On the subject of Salamence, however, let's look at Cresselia:

a) The chances of Cresselia switching in and having Salamence either flee or die are favorable, due to Cresselia having Ice Beam and huge defenses, in addition to Salamence having few options to 2HKO Cresselia.

b) Salamence v Cresselia at the same time is a significant amount in Cressy's favor, due to the fact that it does not have to weather an attack to get in.

c) Salamence switching in on a healthy Cresselia is more or less dead on arrival, due to a plethora of attacks and status moves, in addition to the popular field effect: Stealth Rock, having a good chance of being on the field.

You'll notice that Cressy is not a true 100% hard counter to Salamence, that is correct. The idea of paper counters however, seems outdated. I find that a three step counter analysis is much more useful in application, don't you?

only this is impossible because literally everything in the game that hasn't been allowed to set up forever can be revenge killed by either a scarf pokemon or priority

It wouldn't be a counter as it the counter pokemon would not have a favorable chance of switching in, it would have a low chance fo coming in safely, in fact.

Let's take Garchomp v Mamoswine, for example, I'll do this in reverse order.

c) Garchomp can virtually NEVER come in on Mamoswine without taking a huge hit and then being promptly finished off, Mamoswine counters Garchomp if Garchomp comes in.

b) If Mamoswine and Garchomp are both on the playing field at the same time, Mamoswine has a very large chance of coming out on top, by destroying all sets not holding the Yache Berry instantly. To the best of my knowledge, only Fire Blast would beat Mamoswine in this scenario, a rare move indeed.

a) Mamoswine, however, cannot safely enter onto a Garchomp and Garchomp hits far too hard and always has a chance of resisting the Ice attack.

I hope that explains it well enough, but if you see any other part that needs fixing, just say so.