A Team That's Not That Far Off From Being Pretty Good

[Disposable Puppets]

This is a team that I built to allow Lucario to sweep as easy as it could.

Team at a glance:

Closer view of each pokemon:

Forretress-Lum Berry
Relaxed
252 HP/114 Attack/144 Defense
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Spikes
Gyro Ball


This Forretress lead is one of the most reliable leads I've ever used. It gets stealth rock up most of the time and can even rapid spin stealth rock away once it comes in later in the match or it has dealt with the opponent's lead. Gyro Ball is useful for common leads such as Aerodactly and Azelf. Metagross can't do anything to this lead and is often times forced to switch (unless it has trick, then Forretress is crippled) allowing me to set up spikes.

Scizor-Choice Band
Adamant
252 Attack/244 HP/14 Speed
Bullet Punch
U-Turn
Pursuit
Superpower

This is a set that doesn't need much explanation. Almost everyonce uses this set and everyone knows how useful it can be. Scizor is on my team as it can force switches with U-Turn and can counter Latias so Lucario can sweep easier.

Machamp (Guts)-Leftovers
Adamant
252 Attack/252 HP/6 Speed
Close Combat
Payback
Ice Punch
Substitute

Machamp is my Rotom-A killer. I know that there are probably better options for beating Rotom-A but Machamp has surprise factor. The only drawback of this set is that I can't use Dynamicpunch but Close Combat is actually stronger. However the defense drops are unfortunate and causes Machamp to switch out more than I would like. Otherwise I can just watch as Rotom-A try and burn me with the result of my payback becoming even stronger. Ice Punch helps me deal with Gliscor easier as most Gliscor don't switch out on Machamp. Substitute lets me use close combat more often as I don't have to worry about the defense drops letting the opponent deal huge amounts of damamge to me. This set is also good at dealing with the Latias with hidden power fire that Scizor can't counter.

Flygon-Choice Scarf
Jolly
252 Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Thunderpunch
Outrage
U-Turn
Earthquake

If Celebi (who is another pain in the ass for Lucario) has hidden power fire, Scizor cannot be relied upon to counter it. Flygon helps in this reguard as it can u-turn on Celebi leaving a significant dent in it and allowing me to switch to another pokemon (most often Salamance as Celebi wouldn't thunderwave Flygon) to deal with Celebi even better. Thunderpunch, Outrage and Earthquake are for revenge killing Gyrados, Salamence and Metagross respectively.

Salamence-Life Orb
Naive
252 Speed/240 Special Attack/18 Attack
Draco Meteor
Roost
Fire Blast
Earthquake

MixMence that acts like a fighting resist. It has roost over outrage to help it survive longer. Draco Meteor hurts very much and helps put a dent in Gliscor that otherwise annoys me to no end.

Lucario-Life Orb
Jolly
252 Attack/252 Speed/6 HP
Swords Dance
Extremespeed
Ice Punch
Close Combat

This is beast is the biggest offensive weapon on my team. This is the set I've had the most success with so I use it. I used to run stone edge so I could deal with Gyarados as well but I didn't like it's accuracy. With Ice Punch I can deal with Gliscor though. However this set doesn't deal with Gliscor as well as it used to because as the September statistics show, more and more people are using jolly nature on Gliscor which means that they outspeed me anyway. This alone made me consider running shuca berry and an adamant nature but I still like outspeeding neutral Zapdos and Salamence and I don't like the loss in power that I receive when I lose life orb. This set needs to do as much damage as it can and I need Life Orb for that.


Now I'll go through the process I went through to decide each team member.

As I've already explained, Lucario was my choice for late-game sweeper as I've had the most success with him so I chose him.

To KO Zapdos and Salamence, stealth rock is required so I needed a lead that could get stealth rock down pretty reliably and I chose Forretress because I've used him in the past and was successful with him.

One of Lucario's biggest counters is Celebi as even Swords Danced Ice Punch doesn't 2HKO. Scizor is able to deal with Celebi pretty well do to its x4 grass resistance and access to pursuit so I went with him. He also helps wrack up stealth rock damage and helps dent bulky water pokemon that otherwise are a bother.

However Scizor can't deal with Celebi if it has hidden power fire. So I needed to find a pokemon that could help with Celebi while at the same time, reliably dealing with Rotom-A as Rotom-A is another one of Lucario's biggest enemies. Guts Machamp was a good choice because it can reliably deal with Rotom-A and not be obvious about doing it with payback + guts. Guts + payback also helps with Celebi because if Celebi thunderwaves Machamp, it's going to take a sizeable amount of damage.

These four pokemon have no way of dealing with Gyarados or Metagross so I wanted a revenge killer that could manage that reliably well. Flygon seemed like a good choice since it's very fast and hits hard with STAB outrage and earthquake as well as having thunderpunch for Gyarados. Having two U-turners on the team helps as well because I could wrack up more stealth rock damage that way.

Now the team was nearing it's completion. However I had no answer to fighting typed pokemon such as Lucario or Heracross. I wanted a fighting resist that could also do lots of damage in the process as well as having a reliable healing move. Salamence was a good fit because it could hit hard with Draco Meteor, Fire Blast and Earthquake, heal with Roost, and counter Lucario with its flying type + intimidate.

As you can see, all of my members are immune to toxic spikes except Machamp (but then he actually benefits from it) so I doin't have to worry about that ruining my day.

Well there's my team. It's been pretty successful for me so far but I wanted to get your opinions on it as I am always looking to improve. All suggestions are welcome.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Threat List (Taken from Kevin Garrett's archived RMT and updated for my team

Azelf - Lead variants with flamethrower can be handled by Forretress as Gyro Ball hits it hard and Forretress resists explosion.

Breloom - I usually have to sacrifice a pokemon for the spore (usually Forretress). After Forretress is asleep, Salamence can come in as it resists Focus Punch and Seed Bomb and can roost off the damage and threaten it with Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. Scizor, Flygon and Lucario can all revenge kill it with Bullet Punch, Outrage and Extremespeed respectively.

Dragonite - Scizor and Flygon can both revenge kill it with Bullet Punch and Outrage respectively. Machamp and Lucario can also threaten slower variants with ice punch.

Dugtrio - Every single pokemon on my team has some way of dealing with Dugtrio so he isn't really a problem..

Electivire - Flygon and Lucario can revenge kill it with Earthquake and Extremespeed. Machamp can also take its hits and threaten it with close combat. Salamence also outspeeds and hits it with earthquake.

Gallade - Gallade is weak to strong priority attacks from Scizor and Lucario. Salamence scares it away with Intimidate provided that it doesn't have Ice Punch.

Gengar - If Gengar doesn't have substitute and hidden power fire, Scizor can revenge kill it. Machamp is a shaky check but it can KO it with pursuit. In desperate situations, Flygon can revenge kill it with outrage.

Gyarados - Flygon revenge kills with thunderpunch. Other than that, he can be troublesome. Scizor and Lucario can revenge kill it if its health is low, but that can't be relied on.

Heatran - Salamence outspeeds and KOs non-scarf variants with earthquake. Lucario does too with Close Combat. Scarf Variants can be revenge killed with Flygon. Machamp can also deal with it with close combat. Forretress and Scizor can catch it on the switch and damage it with Earthquake and Superpower respectively.

Heracross - Salamence can weaken Heracross with Intimidate and has a nice Fighting- and Bug-type resistance. Scizor and Lucario can also revenge kill it with Bullet Punch and Extremespeed.

Infernape - Salamence resists everything it can throw at it bar stone edge and hidden power ice and can kill it with earthquake. Scizor and Lucario can pick off low healthed Infernape. Flygon revenge kills it with earthquake pretty reliably.

Jolteon - Flygon can revenge kill it with earthquake. Other than that, it can be a problem. If it needs to, Lucario can pick it off with extremespeed.

Latias - Scizor usually handles most Latias sets. The ones with hidden power can be dealt with by Machamp as they are generally more offensive oriented and take a great deal of damage from payback. Flygon can revenge kill it with outrage and can damage it with u-turn it. Forretress can gyro ball it if it lacks hidden power fire but Latias can easily just recover off the damage so Forretress is only for desperate situations.

Kingdra -I don't really have much problems with Kingdra thanks to the two priority users on my team. If it's not raining, Flygon can revenge kill it with Outrage.

Lucario - Salamence deals with Lucario nicely as it always outspeeds and can kill it with either fire blast or earthquake. Adamant Lucarios are killed by my Jolly one. If it hasn't swords danced yet, Machamp can survive a close combat and kill it with its own close combat.

Machamp - Machamp is a real pain in the ass but repeated Bullet Punches, Draco Metors, Outrages and Close Combats will eventually wear it down.

Magnezone - Magnezone is tough to face as it traps Scizor, Forretress and Lucario and can come in on Salamence's Draco Meteor. Flygon is the best switch in to it as it can earthquake it. Machamp is can close combat it but its not always a great way of dealing with it.

Mamoswine - Scizor can come in on Mamoswine as it tries to Ice shard Salamence and Flygon and kill it with Bullet Punch. Forretress also is a solid check as it has great defenses and access to Gyro Ball.

Metagross - Trick-less lead Metagross can't do anything to Forretress so I can generally set up stealth rock and take out chunks of its health with earthquake. Non-leads are dealt with by Flygon.

Porygon-Z - Scizor, Lucario and Flygon can all revenge kill it if they come in on the right moves.

Salamence - Salamence can be checked by Scizor's Bullet Punch after Stealth Rock damage. Neutral natured ones are outsped by Lucario and killed by Ice Punch. Flygon can revenge kill it with outrage. If Salamence is locked into outrage, Forretress can come in and Gyro ball it for big damage. Machamp can catch it on the switch with ice punch.

Scizor - I don't really have a safe switch into Scizor (except Forretress but he can't do really anything back) but I do have ways to take advantage of it. Lucario can set up on it if its trapped into Bullet Punch and Salamence can come in on Superpower and threaten it with fire blast and force it out. Machamp can wear it down with close combat but the defense drops mean bullet punch does more damage to it.

Starmie - Scizor can threaten it with u-turn or pursuit. Machamp can survive its attacks most of the time and can hit it with payback. Flygon can also wear it down with u-turn or thunderpunch.

Togekiss - Scizor can Bullet Punch it and Lucario can extremespeed it or ice punch it. If it lacks heat wave, Forretress can threaten it with Gyro Ball but this is only in depserate situations as is trying to revenge kill it with Flygon.

Tyranitar - Machamp is my first switch into all Tyranitar as it is a prime target to set up a substitute. DD Tyranitar can be revenge killed by Flygon. Choice Band Tyranitar and Curse Tyranitar give easy switch ins to Lucario and Scizor.

Weavile - Scizor easily handles all of Weavile's attacks and can choose betwen U-turning out or Bullet Punching. Choice Band Weavile is easy set up fodder for Lucario if it's locked into a resisted attack, especially Pursuit. Machamp can also come in relatively easily and threaten it with close combat.

Yanmega - Scizor and Lucario can bypass all that speed with their priority attacks and do pretty good damage. Forretress can also Gyro ball it if it doesn't have hidden power ground.

Zapdos - Lucario can KO it with Ice Punch provided that stealth rock is down (which it almost always is). Other than that though, Zapdos can be troublesome.

 

[locopoke]

Honestly this is one of the better teams I've seen all day. Just a few minor nitpicks though.

On Forretress, Spikes should definetely be used over Earthquake. EQ doesn't help you beat any leads in particular, and Spikes is pretty much the only reason to use Forretress as a lead. Getting Spikes up early in the match successfully gives you a big advantage, along with keeping rocks off of your side of the field which makes Forretress a neat lead.

Machamp is a great Pokemon, especially with the set you're using, but you definetely want No Guard over Guts. Dynamic Punch is such an amazing move, it's honestly too good to pass up. Replace Close Combat with Dynamic Punch. So many teams are unprepared for this set and if you bring it out at the right time then it can end up screwing over so many Pokemon.

For Salamence, use Life Orb over White Herb definetely, the SpA drop is worth it because with LO MixMence is so much more scarier, it's probably the best Salamence set imo. Every team in OU has trouble switching into it. Also I suggest using the spread 252 speed / 240 SpA / 16 Atk, your HP evs arent nessecary and max speed is important to tie with other base 100s.

Overall, great team. Really.

 

[TheDuckAlmighty]

I would have to say that Scarftran with HP Ice and Mixape can dent this team. I would suggest switching your Salamence for a Latias.


Latias @ Expert Belt
252 sp.a 252 spe 6 hp
-HP Fire
-Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
-Surf
-Protect

Thats the set I always use, lures in and can kill Scizor. If he Bullet Punches, switch to Lucario and if he U-Turn's, HP Fire

 

[Disposable Puppets]

Locopoke:

Your point about Forretress makes sense. The time I spend earthquake Metagross could be better spent setting up spikes. Spikes'll also be helpful weakening pokemon for Lucario to sweep.

I disagree about Machamp though. Machamp's role on this team is to be a Rotom killer. If I opt for No Guard over Guts I have to be more careful about switching him in as Will-O-Wisp really screws me over. With guts though, Will-o-wisp actually helps me and makes me stronger. With guts, I can freely switch in Machamp whenever I please and I can safely fire a powered-up payback while my opponent thinks he's crippled me.

With Salamence, do you recommend keeping the moveset with those changes or would you add outrage in there somewhere?

 

[locopoke]

Alright, I see your point with Machamp. In that case, I think replacing Ice Punch and Substitute with Rest and Sleep Talk would be great, so that he doesn't die too soon from Burn or Poison damage. You make a valid point about Will-o-Wisp, but then why would you start subbing with a burn?

As for Salamence, Outrage is not needed. Brick Break, Earthquake and Outrage all work as the physical move on MixMence, it doesn't really matter, but I'd suggest either Brick Break or Earthquake, NOT Outrage. With Outrage that means Heatran walls you, though I doubt they'll be switching Heatran into a MixMence.

 

[Disposable Puppets]

I used to run Rest + Sleep Talk but a Jolly Gliscor completely walled my team once my opponent had taken out Salamence. I realize that Rest + Sleep Talk is very valuable as it gives me a sleep absorber but Jolly Gliscor, which is the most common Gliscor as of September, walls me completely.

Also I took your advice about Salamence. Gave him a life orb and changed the EVs.

 

[akarias]

Your threat list is missing a couple things, most notably bulky waters. Resttalk gyara walls your entire team, and any sort of well played gyara punches holes through this team. You have no reliable switch in to starmie, who moves in on foretress easily. Swampert also walls off this team. Skarmory (also not on your list) walls everything but mence, and rotom gives problems too, as well as zapdos, especially since the only thing that can beat it can't set up on it. Lastly suicune runs like a hot knife through butter, timid LO CM suicune outspeeding everything but flygon, and ohkoing everything but machamp (who is 2hko'd). Latias with hp fire runs circles around the team. Hippowndon walls off the vast majority of this team. Basically this team is way too physical without any sort of wallbreakers, and thus falls to most special threats and physical walls. Think of getting another wallbreaker or at least a good CB poke to take out more of the weaknesses lucario has. Scarflatias can work over scarfgon, checking the same threats and tons more, along with the useful trick for stall teams, and beats most bulky waters. Celebi works well cuz it thunderwaves most common switch ins to lucario, though you'll probably have to switch out foretress for swampert as a fire resist.

 

[Vapor Trails]

I don't see much to change besides waht the other posters said.
I like the inventive Scizor EV's.
It outspeeds other Scizor, in case you have to fight another one (from looking at the team, that doesn't seem to be the case.)
Overall, 8/10.
I see the guy you copied the list from missed a few of the common waters.
Look at ialanctr's most recent thread.
It should have the missing pokes.

 

[Cooltrainer]

It is my opinion that a lead can decide the outcome of the battle. If you check the RMT's that are running around on the first page of the RMT's on November 1st as I write this, I have seen many people suggest Shuca Berry Tran as a lead. With that in mind, what on your team can honestly take a fire attack? Flygon and Mence switching in early game probably take about 35-40%, and Mence will take a massive amount factoring in SR. SPECStran is another thing.

To counter Occa berry Metagross Leads, the SPECStran with overheat was created. It will do upwards of 60% to both of the pokemon that resist it, and ohko the rest. I can just see that lead as ruining your entire gameplay.

Instead of Flygon, I suggest a DDdos. A) it will help you break stall, and B) it will add a solid fire resist. Gyarados has a <betterthanaverage> special defense stat, so with a small investment in sp def EVs you can make it a solid heatran counter. Then I would suggest making Salamence a scarf Pokemon. Scarf Salamence's are VERY unpredictable, many people expecting the specs Latias to outspeed. If you decide you dont like that, you can put a scarf Latias, as I find it is the best stopper of the dangerous DD'ers around, Gyarados and Salamence.

~Trick, Surf, Thunderbolt, DracoMeteor/Dragon Pulse
@ Timid, 252speed 252sp attack should work fine.

Lum Berry on Fortress .. do you mind if I ask why? if its for Roserades, you're much better off with leftovers or shed skin. With that in mind, I would change Machamp to a Rest Talking Set. The EV's are on smogon, and I appologize for being lazy. But with those updates, you can effectively counter every single lead except Azelf, who you can work around by switching to Gyarados for the Fire move directed @ your Fortress, Waterfall to break sash, then switch to Scizor to Bulletpunch/Pursuit, worst case scenario he explodes and its 5-5.

~~~ Hope this helps ~~~~