Hey everyone, as a very active member of the ADV community i want to post my thoughts on BP and on what i think is the best solution to the problem.
I will be looking at each ban option separetely and arguing the pros and cons of each:
1 Keep Baton Pass as is (Limited to 3 users on a team)
AKA not adressing the problem.
This option imo is for 3 categories of people:
-Boomers who haven't played much in the last year and haven't quite uderstood the brokenness of Mead Pass.
-People who are extremely new to ADV and haven't quite figured out what's broken and what isn't.
-People who are unsatisfied whit the other options and would rather do nothing than pick an option that they don't like(i don't quite get this position personally cause i think the other 4 option pretty much cover the entire spectrum of different approaches to the ban)
TLDR: I think this option is bad cause we need to address the problem.
2 Limit to 2 Baton Pass users on a team and Ban the combination of Baton Pass + Taunt
AKA trying to contain the problem.
People that are in favor of this option want incremental bans that don't really impact the tier too much and want to tackle the problem bit by bit by weakening the power of bp teams overtime. I think this process is quite flawed and here's my reasoning: the previous bp bans have already had a big impact on the tier and by keep adding on "minor" bans we reach a point where all the "minor" bans put together have a bigger impact than 1 "big" ban. For example these people want to preserve Salac pass Vaporeon or Speed pass Scizor or Agility Bp Zapdos+Marowak, but they didn't care for banning Mr.Mime or nuking a lot of Smeargle sets or wanting to eliminate the few uses of Hypno, Mawile, and nuking entirely Mean Look pass Umbreon(which is far from broken). So at the end of the day it comes down to preference for these people, they like certain mons more than others so they are fine nuking the ones they don't like as long as they get to keep their favourite toys to play with. Also to note that this option doesn't completely get rid of the problem of Mead Pass.
TLDR: Imo this option is inconclusive and might create more damage in the long term than the other options.
3 Limit to 1 form of stat-boosting alongside Baton Pass across the whole team
AKA addressing the consequence of the problem.
I think this ABR ban is quite smart and is the 2nd best option in my opinion but personally i don't like it as much as option 4 cause it doesn't address the problem directly(speed pass) but addresses the consequences of the problem(long chains with multiple boosts). This in practice eliminates BP chains just as well as option 4 and has similar collateral but is slightly more complex to understand in the builder and feels more "artificial".
TLDR: Good ban but i prefer option 4.
4 Ban the combination of Baton Pass + Speed Boosts
AKA addressing the source of the problem.
Imo this is the best option because it addresses the source of the problem which is speedpass. Without speedpass nothing that involves BP is remotely broken, because is the ability to outspeed everything is what makes BP teams "uninteractive" and so difficult to deal with unless your team has specific measures that are targeted to break the chain. Without speedpass BP team are very vulnerable to fast revenge killers like Zapdos, Aero, Starmie or setup sweepers like DD Tar and DD Mence. Without speedpass we can unban Mr.Mime, free Bp on Smeargle, unlimit BP to 6 members on a team, and basically instead of having 4 different bans for 1 problem just having 1 ban that directly addresses the problem. The speedpass ban has some collateral, mainly Salac Pass Vaporeon, Speedpass Scizor and Agility BP Zap. I don't think these collateral are a big deal:
- first Salac Vaporeon can be used in the lead slot even with Leftovers, it has still a favourable matchup against lead Ttar, Meta and Mence, but loses the "favourable" matchup against Zapdos, although i think this is true only for low ladder farming because good Zapdos players when they see a lead Vaporeon they click HP Grass turn 1 and Tbolt turn 2 or if they are spdef Zap they can simply Tbolt Turn 1 and Vaporeon will be left just out of Salac range. Overall i think the collateral on Vaporeon is very minor and not a big deal.
- second Speedpass Scizor is cool and not broken so it's unfortunate that it gets nerfed a bit here, but let's remind ourselves that Scizor can run many other sets like double dance sets or endure Salac Reversal sets, so even by eliminating the Speedpassing Scizor sets there is still left plenty to mess around with the steel bug.
- Lastly Agility BP Zapdos gets nuked with this ban which i think overall is a good thing, i always found Zap+Wak to be cheesy and same thing for Zap+belly drummers like Hariyama, Poliwrath & Co. Let's remind ourselves that Agility Zapdos without BP is still legal and a very good Pokemon, you can run Agility+3atks with Drill peck as a great sweeper especially terryfing vs Aero/Celebi teams.
And lastly i want to say that i personally would like to see how good a fullpass team can be without speed pass, maybe it's gonna be good enough to get to 1400 or even 1500 on ladder and i kinda look forward to beating it in an interactive way(with explosions and fast revenge killers insted of trying to get the Roar/Taunt turns right and hoping for the best) .
TLDR: This is my favourite solution because it adresses directly the problem, has very few collaterals and it is also the most straightforward and simple to understand for new people getting into ADV.
5 Ban the combination of Baton Pass + Any Stat Boosts (Drypass only)
AKA overreacting to the problem.
This option is clearly an overreaction cause CM pass, SD pass or Acid armor pass without Speedpass are far from broken. I think this option is mainly for newer gen players that have PTSD and just want to nuke BP from existence.
TLDR: in an ADV context this ban doesn't make any sense.
Thanks for reading it all if you did, i hope my english wasn't too bad