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tw; ladder shitter opinions

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I subscribe to Metagross, Zapdos, and Jirachi being the 3 mons that sit above the rest of the metagame, because I feel there is very limited teambuilding counterplay to what they do. Jirachi has so many sets that even if you know your opponent will bring Jirachi at some ludicrous frequency, there isn't that much you can do that won't be foiled by some of Jirachi's common teammates. Also, Jirachi stands alone as a mon that wins games out of thin air by either hax, getting up a substitute at the wrong time, or just having the perfect coverage. Even if you have whatever counter you can easily lose to your counter being worn down, trapped by Dug, or frozen or burned at the wrong time, which is something that sets Jirachi apart from a lot of other sweepers. Zapdos and Metagross don't completely win games in the same way, but there isn't much you can do to counter Zapdos' bp momentum and Metagross' explosion. Because Metagross can kill anything and Zapdos can bp out, they are also somewhat close to uncounterable in the same way Jirachi is.

The next tier is solid metagame staples that all have a massive impact on how the metagame works. Gengar and Skarmory were easily candidates for the tier above in my mind, but I put them here. Suicune > Swampert is probably a bit unusual, but I've really come around on offensive cune. Part of this is just how strong Zapdos + Dug + Jirachi is, and that offensive cune or even a cune with rest is a natural fourth mon. I am also kind of low on Milotic and think a lot of Milotics should just be Suicunes. On the other hand, pert is obviously always going to be good but is not as difficult to counter as Suicune, and I don't think offpert is really all that great. I think ddmence is still really good, people are just spamming mixmence more than I think they should, bulky dd mence is a real threat. Celebi is somewhat inconsistent, but always really bulky and offensive sets are sometimes an autowin.

I'm a little bit low on Blissey just because it is always planned for, Blissey is a known quantity that special offenses have dedicated plans to beat through boom, dug, focus punch, 404 hp subs, etc. It is still good, but that's why I have it here. Spinners are spinners, part of my high opinion on cune is going to be a high opinion on Claydol. Aerodactyl is the best cleaner (maybe belongs in tier above?) and Breloom is frustratingly consistent while providing some nice secondary defensive utility sometimes.

I think Moltres is really quite good, weather reset is quite good and even amongst standard offensive Moltres there is a lot of stuff you can do with it. Even its hardest counters aren't full stops, they can easily be harassed with status or roared out. Blissey or Milotic switching in on spikes and getting statused (with sand up) takes off quite a bit of health and forces them to recover. The bulk is nice too. The rest of this tier is consistentish mons that require support or have a large flaw, but potential big payoffs. Heracross can do nothing or win games against the right teams, Snorlax has huge stats but is worn down super easily, Magneton is the king of a mediocre archetype, etc. I think Hariyama is a bit overrated, knock is cool but if you aren't playing a long drawn out game it isn't necessarily that great, like knocking into a skarm switch turn 1 isn't necessarily great. It also gets worn down, and doesn't come in nearly as easily as the big HP would have you think. Charizard is a lot weaker and frailer than Moltres, but high ceiling. Gyarados is cool, innovations like sub and HP ghost are pretty neat, but he feels like he needs mag support or a lot of skarm lures. I like that he checks cune though.


From here, just a few thoughts on the mons I've experimented with more.

:Flygon: Flygon's stats always feel spread too thin, except with choice band which feels great when your opponent has no earthquake immunities I guess. Fat flygon feels like a matchup fish, although it can be really useful I guess.

:Regice: inspired by BKC's regice video I made my own regice team: Zapdos (lead bp)/Dugtrio/Jirachi (subCM)/Regice (twave boom)/Suicune (rain dance cm)/Gengar (hypno, wisp, ice punch, boom). I feel that Regice is decent and it is truly bulky, but a mediocre substitution on an otherwise great team. I don't think it can fit on many structures either. I'd challenge someone to build a decent Regice team that isn't reusing like 3 of the pokemon from what I had.. It also struggles to split EVs, and honestly how often are you running into teams that don't have Jirachi, Metagross, Tyranitar. Usable, but not great..

:Regirock: I think this guy sucks. It's a really shitty metagross, so you use it alongside Metagross, but also you want Tyranitar, right? So Tyranitar/Regirock/Metagross you're just piling weaknesses and slow as all hell, I don't know. I couldn't make this guy work too well.

:Venusaur: 75% of the time it works every time. Absolutely sucks when it gets paralyzed, great if it has a favorable lead matchup and hits sleep powder. Hidden power and giga drain are also really annoyingly weak, which sucks.

:Houndoom: flawed but pretty good at what it does, and has a pretty neat movepool with stuff I haven't really experimented with. Houndoom + Breloom is actually kinda nice, and can also work alongside stuff like Forretress, although I do think a lot of Houndoom's value comes from an opponent assuming special pursuit ttar, not that that is such a bad thing though. Really frail though and susceptible to doing nothing.

:Jynx: feels like a better Venusaur to be honest, Venusaur has the ability to switch out of the lead and come back in using its water resist or whatever, but its bulk is really limited in spikes and sand. Jynx + Dug works, and Jynx is really threatening off the rip if it hits lovely kiss.

:Medicham: really frail dude, just dies pretty quick. I think Breloom or Heracross is gonna be better in most teams, the rock resist is cute and all but this shit isn't saving you from an Aero lol. Also it's afraid of Gengar. I think Machamp might even be better lol.

:Marowak: similar to Medicham, the rock resist is cute but just isn't bulky enough with its awful speed tier. Speedpass works though, even if it is cheesy.

edit: venusaur and jynx should be swapped in my ranking.
 
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S++ Tyranitar

S+ Jirachi

S Celebi Suicune Skarmory [BL: Salamance]

S- Blissey

A++ Zapdos Metagross Swampert Gengar [BL: Snorlax]

A+ Claydol

A Aerodactyl Starmie Milotic

A- [BL: Dugtrio Jolteon Gyarados] Forretress Magneton Breloom Flygon

B++ Moltres Kingdra Heracross

B+ [BL: Charizard Cloyster] Porygon2 Haryama Houndoom Vaporeon

B [BL: Raikou Medicham] Slaking Steelix Umbreon Jynx Smeargle Venusaur Weezing Ludicolo Dragonite

B- [BL: Blaziken] Marowak Machamp Sceptile Regice Regirock Exeguttor Dusclops Miltank Alakazam Ninjask [BL: Scizor Tauros Jumpluff]

B- - Camerupt Domphan Lanturn Gardevoir Registeel Rhydorn [BL: Entei Arcanine Lapras]

C++ [BL: Cradily Swellow Tentacruel] Banette Ursaring Kangaskhan Dodrio Typhlosion Crobat Misdreavous Espeon Armaldo Nidoqueen [BL: Nidoking Articuno Pikachu]

C+ Hitmonlee Hitmontop Zangoose Raichu Walrein Slowbro Pelipper Kabutops Aggron Quagsire Shuckle Murkrow

C [BL: Primeape Vileplume Victreebell Mantine Blastoise] Meganium Clefable Hypno Poliwhirl Golduck Linoone Qwilfish Lunatone Grandbull Muk Schyther Altaria Mawile Persian Togetic Wigglytuff Rapidash Slowking Gorybass Electabuzz Xatu Glalie Ampharos Feraligatr Electrode Girafarig

C- [BL: Wailord Pinsir] Octillery Azumarill Shiftry Ninetales Parasect Omastar Politoad Golem Fearow Bellossom Grumpig Sableye Absol Roselia Stantler Solrock Butterfree Chimencho Delcatty Magcargo Kingler et al.


Description and analysis:

- Four tears (S, A , B , C)
- Metrics: .prowess (p), .splashability (sps), .enviromental fitness (ef).
[p= stats, typing, ability, movepool] [sps= prowess applicated to teambuilding/ versatility] [ef= fitness, perfomability within the characteristics of the metagame]

Tier S : the meta-defining pokemons
Tier A : staples
Tier B : situational mons
Tier C : viable mons

[note: BL stands for Border Line, not Banned List]

sub-tiers:
s++ overlord; s+ deity; s- meta-defining but exploitable;
a++ egregious staples/ godmons; a+ more than a staple; a- staples but exploitable/flawed in some ways
b++ egregious situational mons; b+ great situational mons; b- good at their job, but that's it; b-- nichemons
c++ weaker nichemons; c+ more than viable/hardtocomeby nichemons; c- barely viable.

Controversial picks:
Jirachi s+ [p 5/5, sps 5/5, ef 5/5]
Celebi s [p 5/5+, sps 5/5, ef 4/5]; Suicune s [p 5/5+, sps 5/5, ef 4/5]; Salamance s [p 5/5+, sps 4/5, ef 4/5]
Blissey s- [p 5/5+, sps 5/5, ef 3/5+]
Zapdos a++ [p 5/5, sps 4/5+, ef 3/5+]; Metagross a++ [p 5/5, sps 4/5, ef 4/5]; Snorlax a++ [p 5/5+, sps 3/5+, ef 3/5]
Claydol a+ [p 3/5+, sps 5/5, ef 5/5]
Dugtrio a- [p 3/5+, sps 4/5, ef 4/5]; Breloom a- [p 4/5, sps 3/5+, ef 3/5]; Flygon a- [p 3/5+, sps 3/5, ef 4/5+]
Kingdra b++ [p 4/5+, sps 2/5+, ef 3/5];
Porygon2 b+ [p 4/5, sps 3/5, ef 2/5+]
 

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McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the 5th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Championis a Past SPL Champion
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Bi-annual post about my VRs. A quick summary of my thoughts expressed during a stream that can be found on Youtube. You're gonna see a lot of "I like"/"I dislike", the statements represent my views of the tier and how I play it, not absolute truths.

The McRankings 2021 Pt.2



:tyranitar: I like DD the most, especially with DE as coverage, works the best consistently. DD FP is nice for early big punch and finishing. 4 Atk Ttar has the best defensive value + offensive process. Pursuit is lame on defensive teams that need it to remove Gengar to work, can go wrong too often. Twave on physttar is a good Skarm crippler.

:zapdos: Sub BP has finally been spammed again, absolute terror and create big offensive swings early. Return of RestalkRoar @ MaxSpdef is interesting and a good fit on fat TSS, especially Bliss-less. Peck's strong with Spikes, at the cost of defensive value.

:metagross: CB still amazing, Mix good at picking its "do not fuck with me" coverage to land the boom you want. I've been liking PhysDef with Spikes for extra offensive oomph.

:skarmory: Skarmory makes every good 'mon better and makes some good 'mon incredible. Teams that use Skarm without relying on its spikes to work are some of my favorite (read: pairing with things like Mence or Metagross rather than Moltres or Flygon). Thief is great alongside DP if you want a strong tool in the TSS mirror as it's not hard to create a situation where you land it vs the opposite Skarm; also good vs other targets obviously. Phaze-less is worth alonsgside Roar Cune or Pert and a real bitch of a wall to deal with without Magneton.

:swampert: As solid as ever. I like to use Surf pretty much always because it hits everything, although very often with Roar. Counter is a nice last slot to have a OHKO move vs Mence, DD TTar or Zapdos in a pinch.

:jirachi: Unique typing/movepool can fit into every teams and create unique structures. Physdef is insanely suffocating in the right conditions, much more than SpDef. On the offensive side, SubCM is a real terror and can win a lot of games it "shouldn't" win. I love WishCM on the right teams, advice to run alongside a cleric.

:salamence: Insane defensive utility thanks to the typing + Intimidate, making it a great pivot on offense and defense alike alongside staples like Meta or Jirachi. Also great at inverting the momentum thanks to the speed and offensive process. Offensive sets often have a slot to tech very unique moves that can swing games like Roar, Wish or Refresh. DD has also proven to be strong on balance (and prob the best way to use it compared to MagOffense).

:blissey: Avoid relying too much on her as the sole special check because it gets abused very badly. Not a big fan these days without a spinner either. Wish is still good, Sing + Dug is very strong at times. My favorite cleric and a recommendation alongside Stalk-less Rest Cune, Wish CM Rachi or Rest Snorlax.

:dugtrio: Dugtrio offense is mid. Dugtrio + Spikes is very strong. Exposes poorly put together teams. Dugtrio + Spikes is insane on defensive structures to prevent some bad boys to get to your crucial defensive pieces (Meta before it booms, 4 Atk Ttar, Hera, etc). A great enabler of unique strategies and lower ranked Pokemons as well. Need a strong plan vs hazards because Skarmory vs Dug teams is really awful to deal with at times. Also watch out for DDMence/Gyara considering their current popularity. Oh, and Dugtrio + Spikes allow for funky coverage on some Pokemons by picking off all the Ground weak Pokemons (think EQ-less DDMence or Claydol)

:aerodactyl: Too good at what it does, instant momentum grabber and gives you offensive counterplay against everything thanks to sheer power and coverage. Never quite out of a game with it on your team.

:gengar: Not really my cup of tea because it needs too clinical plays for my taste, and also a lot of teams that run it put too much marbles into keeping Spikes to work. As I've said for years, DBond is really good and can turn the tables vs Claydol (or a lot of things really). I've been liking the Calm spreads exploration to beat Pursuittar 1v1 as well. Possibly the best defensive Jirachi punish as a Body Slam pivot + threat of WoW. A staple of Special Offense in my opinion for its ability to lure special wall and semi-check a ton of things that would run through those teams otherwise (and take some weight off Zapdos shoulders defensively).

:suicune: CroCune always kind of a threat. Roar CM really strong with Spikes and a Cleric (and Dug). OffCunes are back and dangerous as ever when you don't run into Bliss, great early pressure for Special Offenses. Sub sets can steal games out of nowhere. A good 'mon to put on some of your teams when you need that one extra push vs defensive teams, where a regular bulky Water wouldn't help.

:claydol: Claydol has the perfect set of moves and stats to be useful every games. Defenses to avoid OHKOs almost always, best Spinner and Boom just completely change gamestates. Also a natural typing that makes it a good pivot/help vs all the popular Pokemons (Ttar, Zap, Jira, Aero, Gengar). It's never a perfect counter to anything, but always a good secondary check. I think Claydol teams are always very solid as a result.

:snorlax: Curse EQ Sball Boom is the most reliable offensive set imo. Snorlax outside of Sand is worth using/building around because it's that good. Curse is unironically very strong into Forret teams too.

:forretress: Not nearly as much of a fan this time around, requires too precise plays to work in my opinion. Spinning with it is always a nightmare, I hate it. Often plays from behind and hard to get into the zone because of 4x Fire weak and can't really risk too much with it because it's too detrimential for the teams it finds itself on. My preferences at the end of the day: hate spinning with it, Spikes + 3 Atk is where its at, with side Claydol or Starmie (usually Claydol's better). Counter + HP Bug very consistent and useful in many situations. Zap Cannon worth using the Para vs Skarm and Gengar.

:starmie: I don't like Offensive sets much, but Recover 3 Atk (with Surf) is my favorite. I've tried but dislike 2 Atk Offensive Spin Recover. TW+Recover bulky Mie is the most unique combination Starmie can do and is a good fit into many teams, although never quite the perfect Spinner, need to be paired with some strong anti-TSS combos to work in my opinion. Fast TWaves are really good to handle many offensive Pokemons, making it a bit more than a Spinner as a result.

:celebi: Biggest downfall of the meta shifts in my opinion. Still think defensive sets are too easily pressured. BP sets have all become hit or miss in my opinion, most good builders/players prep for them and will cut the chain pretty easily (faster Pokemons that OHKO or Roar), and now your team falls apart. At least I've been liking Light Screen on those TSS where Celebi kinda takes Blissey spot because you're not as weak to Suicune/CM Jirachi now.

:breloom: Spore + Fighting stabs = immediate pressure and progress, simplify gameplans. I'm not that much of a fan of sets hardwalled by Gengar nowadays, I like my Leech Looms or HP of choice over one of the 3 fighting slots.

:magneton: Skarm's amazing -> Magneton's good. Enable a lot of cool offensive combos. I like to use MaxSpa so I can finish off Metagross from higher HPs, often pretty important for gameplanning to remove this bad boy. I don't like it on all-out Offenses tho, I prefer it more on Balance or alongside Spikes.

:milotic: Milo hasn't changed too much in my opinion. I guess Suicune being more common makes is worse tho (not to mention CMRachi). Lot of Milo teams don't have very good SubIB Cune counterplay (or CroCune longterm). The key to Milo nowadays imo is Spikes + Dug. Need Spikes to make offensive progress while Milo's hardwalling stuff, and Dug will pick up some of the things Milo isn't good against, such as Meta and DDTtar. However, the need to Spin asap for Milo to work is a really taxing job.

:moltres: Almost always worse than MixMence in my opinion (or Zapdos), but being able to immediately turn the tables vs Gross and more importantly pivot into WoW are two traits I've been appreciating a lot. I never use it without Spikes though.

:gyarados: Weaker DDMence with a unique and sick typing. HPGhost good coverage and OHKO on Gengar are neat.

:heracross: Hera has the tools to immediately force your opponent into an awkward position, which is strong. However it doesn't often have many shots at breaking through so it's not really consistent. Best sleep absorber by the way. I think SD EQ has hidden potential.

:flygon: Too reliant on Spikes to work for my tastes, but quite a sturdy spikes immune 'mon makes it the perfect fit for some teams that have a pretty good ceiling. I don't like offensive sets, EQ isn't a spammable enough stab.

:jolteon: JoltSpikes hasn't really changed in my opinion, but I appreciate Jolt in some offenses as a soft special check (to Zap/Gar/Mie). Sub Lum BP is neat to turn the tables early vs Zapdos while still being useful later. Fast Wish is cool.

:jynx: One of the best offensive leads, Ice Stab + Sleep is very strong to create offensive advantage that will make up for the lackluster defensive balance of the team.

:medicham: Heracross without the godly strong bug stab, and much worse defensively, but a guarantee at potentially making offensive progress if you click the good moves. Higher risk higher reward.

:charizard: I feel like I could like Charizard move, but I've only started appreciating Moltres recently, and my attempts at using Zard havent paid out yet. Insanely good offensive movepool though but I've been liking Moltres bulk more.

:cloyster: I haven't really liked Cloyster much, I tend to prefer Skarmory even in super fast paced offense because it can come more freely on the field and doesnt risk dying as fast.

:porygon2: Great and sturdy vs spikeless, pretty bad into spikes. P2 + Mag is a good pairing but very hard to land a good 6 with that core I feel, or at least I haven't really tried in the past months.

:vaporeon: Feel like I could use this Pokemon more but it's definitely a bad bulky water compared to the other options and Vap Offenses aren't really what I feel compelled to build/use, very unique and strong there though.

:steelix: I always wanna use it with Spikes, Spin and Magneton, but hard to make a good team that fits all of them. Think the way to go is Spikes Spin + Skarm crippler. Beside that, if you have teams with Protect Gross and realize you could use extra help vs Electrics, Steelix might be your man.

:hariyama: I never like using it, too slow for offensive process, not bulky/resilient/flexible to passive damage enough for defensive duties.

:machamp: See Hariyama, I'm more of a Hera/Medi kind of guy.

:venusaur: Roar on a Grass type is cool, very good vs MonoWaters, which can be a pain for some TSS, especially the Toxic kind.

:raikou: I tend to prefer Jynx as a lead. However, I believe CM Jynx isn't as consistent, whereas CM Raikou (even as a lead) is consistent, so not awful. I've heard of back Roar Raikou with Spikes, might be worth exploring?

:umbreon: MeanTrap is lame and cancerous. However, SpDef with Pursuit isnt too terrible and being able to switch into WoW Gengar freely (and even defensive Jirachi and get a status back) is quite unique and happens regulary enough to the point where the Pokemon is worth using.

:regice: Stab Ice good, forces specific plays, not too awful on the good old Ttar/Dug/Gar teams. I've been liking lead Regice and will post more about it in the future.

:registeel: See Steelix but not as bad vs Skarmory/Waters but worse vs Ttar/Jirachi/Twave.

:smeargle: Either a pain in the ass, or ass itself. I don't like Smeargle offense where it's the only spiker, too many bad lead matchups where you can't afford giving up the momentum early like that. 1 Spikes also not enough for "HO" to work. I think those teams need a second Spiker to work consistently.

:kingdra: Off Starmie on steroids but need a turn of setup.

:donphan: See Steelix but Spin and worse vs Elecs. I only like this guy with Mag and Spikes now. Maybe worth exploring without Mag with a Cleric, a Skarm crippler and maybe a Wisher.

:ludicolo: Nothing new to add honestly.

:glalie: Explosion, Spikes, Taunt, Ice Stab and Zapdos pivot are actually all very good and consistent tools in ADV. I like it a lot on HO alongside another spikes (read: Smeargle). Pretty dogshit outside of all of that though.

:armaldo: Knock Off + Sand immunity = good, but fits very slow & stally teams, also weird typing making it hard to wall as much as you'd like with a defensive team.

:blaziken: See Medicham but even more weaknesses and less power physically. Good pressure early though, worth using.

:marowak: Don't really rate outside of cheese, but very strong in those teams.

:rhydon: Good on ParaSpam, but ParaSpam aint that good to begin with.

:camerupt: Unique defensive utilities and has good offensive moves, but can't/won't use it myself. I trust Hclat/Altina (and dice) there.

:aggron: Alright on Rock Spam (alongside Ttar and Aero) thanks to TWave and Toxic immunity.

:alakazam: Kind of a worse Jynx/Raikou overall but will outspeed everything at lead. I've tested bakc Zam with Encore but didn't like it, defensive utility is too awful.

:slaking: A pretty extreme take on fighters.

Pokemons I didn't bother ranking but think are worth using-exploring more-too inconsistent for my tastes: Houndoom / Dragonite / Dusclops / Exeggutor / Gardevoir / Jumpluff / Ninjask / Regirock / Sceptile / Scizor / Weezing / Cradily / Golduck / Hypno / Lanturn / Mantine / Nidoking / Nidoqueen / Politoed / Solrock / Lunatone
 
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Offense Spammer VRs V2, try not to flame me too hard :P
(don't put too much stock into the letter rankings, they don't mean too much)

S Rank
:rs/tyranitar:
Nothing represents ADV quite like Tyranitar. Whether it's Pursuit sets failing to reliably trap Gengar, Dragon Dance sets flinching through Milotic, Special sets missing Fire Blast vs CM Jirachi, or Guacamole Mixtar Penis, Tyranitar truly has it all. DD Focus Punch is sick.

:rs/metagross:
CB Meta's ability to win a game singlehandedly and open up massive holes is worth being almost this high alone, but then you throw in all of its other amazing sets. Mash/Grass/EQ/Boom is soooo good.

A+ Rank
:rs/swampert:
If you don't want to get overloaded by physicals, this is your guy. Curse Pert is pretty cool. Mono Surf Pert without Roar is still god awful, just to a greater extent now than ever. Try HP Electric for good mon Gyarados.

:rs/celebi:
Superbi. Modest Superbi is cocaine. DefBi needs (or very badly wants) a spinner. CM Pass is pretty alright, although I loathe the coinflip that comes with CM Pass mirrors.

:rs/skarmory:
There is no better spiker than this dude. If you aren't using a Skarmory spiker, there should be a good reason. No, Forretress is not a good reason.

A Rank
:rs/gengar:
Explosion is really great. Pursuit Tyranitar teams get obliterated by Gengar due to an overreliance on it. Gengar + Spikes + Roar Molt/Zap is a fantastic way to slaughter those Forretress builds. Perish Trap Gengar should be used a bit more.

:rs/jirachi:
RealJester
Screenshot 2021-10-23 125212.png

Singlehandedly raising Theasiancp3 stocks tenfold.

:rs/salamence:
No don't use your Dugtrio to trap my Jirachi haha that'd be so bad for me

:rs/blissey:
Blissey with no spinner feels so gross at times. CM Blissey is legitimately not bad. If you use Sing, you should feel bad about yourself.

:rs/zapdos:
Pretty overhyped. Mixed is the best set IMO. Sp. Def is pretty annoying to take down for a decent amount of teams. Sub Pass is so telegraphed at this point that I feel like it's my own fault if I get ZapDugged (and it probably is!).

A- Rank
:rs/aerodactyl:
The great gatekeeper of ADV.

:rs/starmie:
The other great gatekeeper of ADV, 80% of the time.

:rs/suicune:
Offcune is pretty good, I don't really get the hate. Excellent at trading or chipping Zapdos early game, and of course Suicune as a wincon is reliant on its hidden ability, Shell Armor. Dug + Cune builds are really easy to overload with physical sweeper + Explosion guy.

B+ Rank
:rs/dugtrio:
Super exploitable. All of the offenses that maul Dugtrio teams just don't get used in tours. But, it does its job pretty well (sometimes).

:rs/breloom:
He's still good, but I'm finding it harder to justify. HP Bug and Rock Breloom are still sets worth using.

:rs/charizard:
Perhaps a bit too high. Amazing breaker, hampered by a lack of long game defensive utility and reliance on teammates to remove waters and Sp. Def Zapdos.

:rs/snorlax:
Snorlax will never be bad, no matter how much people attempt to slander it. Very much an "in practice" rather than an "on paper" sort of Pokemon.

:rs/moltres:
I think Moltres is a great mon at hazard control, but I can't quite put why I feel that is the case into words. The team I built to use against Finch is one of my favorite ADV teams I've ever built.

:rs/vaporeon:
Hey guys, did you know that in terms of murdering fat and enabling offense, Vaporeon is the most compatible Pokemon for your team?

:rs/gyarados:
A Pokemon I've really begun to come around on. DDers are good!

:rs/claydol:
I have been hanging around Altina too much to consider this thing remotely good. I click Spin, and I try to Explode on the water. Nothing more to it.

B Rank
:rs/smeargle:
Have you ever taken a second to really consider Smeargle's design? It's supposed to be a dog or something, but I don't see that relation very much. It's also sticking out its tongue, making it a certifiable asshole. It's pretty good at clicking Spikes though.

:rs/heracross:
Everybody loves to hate on Heracross, myself included. But it's not as bad as people like me make it out to be. 15% is a bitch.

:rs/venusaur:
Everybody likes to say "this mon sucks" "this mon is so good". Not necessarily about Venu, just in general. Venusaur for me is solid. Not great, not bad, just solid.

:rs/magneton:
It's really enabling of some cool stuff. I've been experimenting with some stuff like Curse Pert balances with a Mag on them, pretty neat. Same old same old Magneton though.

:rs/forretress:
cringe

:rs/hariyama:
Overrated this guy a lot. Still good though.

:rs/jolteon:
Bite Jolteon is good. Jolteon as a whole is pretty good. A+ mon in Kerts's hands.

:rs/flygon:
The real target of the "flygon sucks" and "flygon is sooo good" stuff I was talking about. I think Flygon is simply O.K. Well, it's kinda meh. But that's fine by me.

B- Rank
:rs/jynx:
All I did was load up Jynx, Gengar, Zapdos and fish fish fish.

:rs/kingdra:
It's pretty decent. I'm a Kingdra spammer, according to Jabba, aka I load it once every 20 games.

:rs/raikou:
It's another mon that's just OK. Potentially very threatening, potentially just there.

:rs/milotic:
Hax magnet. Every mon gets Super Luck and Serene Grace vs this thing. Only turbo walls the entire game in an RNG-less world.

:rs/cloyster:
It clicks Spike, it clicks moderately strong boom, it Surfs into Gengar, it sometimes click spin. Good mon.

:rs/porygon2:
I don't see the duck anymore. It makes me sad, he's pretty cool.

:rs/machamp:
Likely forever underrated as a fighter. It's hard to really justify it on paper or in words, but it always performs quite well.

:rs/houndoom:
Good Gengar Pursuiter. Very good matchups into some people and teamstyles, terrible into others.

C Rank
:rs/armaldo:
I can't really describe why I put maldo this high other than losing to Hclat in test games using this damn thing. Great when there are a lot of relevant meta threats that can't run SE coverage for it.

:rs/camerupt:
I've never valued Magma Armor so much in my life. A great enabler of a ton of really good offensive Pokemon, i.e. fighters or Charizard, defensively it's kinda whelming.

:rs/medicham:
Not something I have been able to really "solve" yet. Medicham always seems to fall flat in my hands.

:rs/lanturn:
Yeah, it's still here. It still answers waters.

:rs/exeggutor:
Hilarious Pokemon. Eggy's power is seriously overlooked, and Sleep + Boom is still fantastic.

:rs/scizor:
Building with this guy gives me a headache, but Scizor is pretty decent nonetheless. Reversal stuff being so telegraphed makes you mindgame yourself out of wins, which sucks.

:rs/weezing:
I have not found a reason to use Weezing much recently. Just not really my cup of tea at the moment.

:rs/steelix:
Same story as above. Hate Magless Lix still.

:rs/jumpluff:
Annoying as all hell still. But, as a Celebi spammer, I don't mind a whole lot.

:rs/ninjask:
cringe

:rs/glalie:
This guy is pretty cool. Simple mon, does its job well.

:rs/mantine:
One of my most successful ladder runs was with offensive Mantine. Defensive I am not entirely sold on yet, but I see the merit.

:rs/regice:
It exists? It's not as questionable as some of the stuff to follow it, but it's not good.

D Rank
:rs/golduck:
Super sick mon. Should be used at least once in CI.

:rs/politoed:
Screenshot 2021-10-23 125704.png

pain.

:rs/dusclops:
Pretty obnoxious on occasion. Pretty terrible on occasion.

:rs/regirock:
Pretty viable Pokemon. Sand immune, takes every physical hit in existence, great at clicking Counter, can't be intimidated, AND it has boom!

:rs/omastar:
I don't know how to talk about this mon without sounding like an ignoramus. It does some stuff, and it's worth trying for yourself. Spikes/RD/Hydro/Ice feels pretty good.

:rs/lapras:
I think I said last time that I'd be trying this mon out, and I have since then. It's definitely worth at least experimenting with. Has some pretty cool traits and with stats like those, it's hard for it to truly be deadweight in a game. Have not solved the art of building with it yet.

:rs/lunatone:
CM Pass + Hypnosis + fantastic Salamence answer, a very unique set of characteristics. Ungodly weak to Metagross and reliant on hitting Hypnosis vs Suicune/Milotic, but it's a pretty cool Pokemon.

:rs/blaziken:
Feels kinda awkward to build with. Intuitive to use, kinda fishy.

:rs/articuno:
I might actually be underrating this thing, it's quite obnoxious with Spikes support. Not a bad fit on some more offensive builds, tried it on a rock spam and it performed pretty decently.

:rs/registeel:
Pain in the ass.

:rs/dragonite:
Not bad characteristics at all, just something isn't quite right with this guy.

:rs/aggron:
Swaggron is sick. Don't sleep.

:rs/donphan:
Too reliant on stuff that isn't super reliable, too revealing of the entire team.

:rs/marowak:
Hits like a freight train, has some respectable bulk. Not something I would envision myself using, though.

:rs/slaking:
This mon is probably way too low based on what is coming after it, but Slaking has never appealed to me.

:rs/flareon:
An actual, viable, fieldable Pokemon. Love ADV for this type of stuff.

:rs/tauros:
Much bulkier on the physical side than you might imagine, hits like an SUV.

:rs/gardevoir:
Not a bad Pokemon, but it's hard to really make a team that utilizes it well.

:rs/alakazam:
Feels super fishy. Seems a lot more threatening than it ends up being in the game.

:rs/solrock:
Pretty funny Pokemon, but I cannot make a team with it to save my life.

1635006706596.png
 
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S- Tyranitar only. The single Pokemon, and its unique ability, that the entire tier revolves around.

A++ - The Pokemon not named Tyranitar that the metagame revolves around.

A+ - The powerful, above the point of balance standard mons that are central to the tier and just win games. The key threats of the tier.

A - The solid, balanced, completely viable but not busted mons in standard.

B - Entirely viable mons with an undeniable flaw or two that hold them back from being better than what they are.

C - Useable, non gimmick mons with clear flaws that only belong on specific teams or thrive in specific situations.

------------

After C I got a little less picky about the order within the tiers themselves as I'm just not inclined to argue about whether Regirock or Lapras is better. I put them in the order that I believe to be right but in the lower tiers it's so close and so subjective that you can make some swaps and it's still fine...

D - Fringe. Useable, but nothing more than that. Needs specific support and specific matchups to shine and even then are still merely solid/decent as opposed to great.

E - Usable in the loosest sense of the word. Ultra fringe, gimmicky, not suited for serious play in the vast majority of situations, a baby step above outright not usable in serious games.

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watermess

What? Never seen an idiot before?
is a Tutoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
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Skipping through some talking points now

Gar and Rachi at 2 & 3
Gengar has new sets, recent wider recognition of focus punch as a highly viable option elevates its matchup vs teams relying on bliss or tar to beat it. Some gar sets are also now able to win games just off being so bulky that suittar can never trap them fully without making doubles. Dbond techs magdol matchup like no other pokemon in adv can bar your own trapper for their mag, and even then, dbond gar is less volatile and more consistent at its job. A good Gengar always puts in work.
Jirachi, like Gengar, almost always puts in work. It's arguably the most threatening sweeper and potent sweeper in the current metagame, and it has serene grace to boot. If you think, in each game that Jirachi shouldn't win, it has a huge chance just to freeze its way out. if Jirachi simply subs on the switch and ice punches twice this is what? A 36% chance to just rob the game lol and this is assuming a relatively minimal amount of freeze fishes.

skarm at 4
Because skarm is the best spiker, and its an ideal gengar partner as well which only elevates its status

A- tier
A lot of things in the other 2 tiers have sets for suicune but most of them are poor at beating it consistently, broken mon.
Aero is the best revenge killer, dug is second
dol is the best spinner
forre the second best spiker
mence is cool but gengar is right there, gar is often better than mixmence because its gars matchups are less polarising. so essentially I'm ranking a mon that other people use, and dd/cb/wish mence here, which are all good but not top 10 level for me.

B+ tier
offmie good, def mie not so good.
Defensive cele very mediocre but offensive good.
moltres broken and also the only pokemon so far that can ohko metagross, don't underrate this, many say would metagross is a top 5 mon.
lax I find more and more inconsistent these days, sometimes it does alot sometimes not nothing. focus punch variants deserve a revival, but people should be sure to run adamant max atk with it so skarm cant tect out of the 3hko.

B tier
basically the mag off tier. Funny but as a whole, I would rate phys offense higher than B, probably more like A- or A as a style, but part of that is because much of the lower tiers hold pokemon that fulfill a special niche on these styles, but few other places which naturally makes them lower on the VR ranking. an example would be vaporeon, the subs set is particularly good on mag offenses and massively assists the fat matchups.
Jolt, again joltspikes is much higher than B tier more of an A-/A again especially as mag offense gets bigger jolt teams really don't mind facing those. Jolt itself isn't an incredible pokemon so I have rated it thusly but that's not reflective of the teams it enables as a high momentum special defensive wall.
loom, splashable and strong when it works but easy to prepare for, people say it has a higher floor than hera but I disagree, if I'm playing a loom spammer ill just bring sleep talk moltres or mixmence and loom will have done nothing that game. for me this is something more and more apparent as the sleep move hypetrain reaches its peak.

C tier
duck > watersnek :)
metalsnek 6-0s zapdug

D tier
Donphan is heavily underrated, never lose to ddtar again :) also surprisingly good spinner even without mag.
Armaldo also underrated, really good at stopping cmers, good lax countermeasure, best knock distributor in the tier thanks to its more colourful and strong coverage than yama.
Fighting types fell off for me in a big way I've ranked them in order of effectiveness in my personal opinion.
offensive articuno with heal bell is worth a try. its very difficult to switch into and its much more spikes compatible than other ice types thanks to its own spikes immunity.

E tier
I see alot of people ranking glalie higher than this but here's the scoop. I've seen one team that I thought was really good with glalie, but none since that one that weren't just another rehash of the same team, for that reason it goes in the tier below the one I've seen a few decent teams built with. that said vapicunos glalie team is so good it easily heads up the E tier as the strongest mon.

LOL tier
LOOOOOOOL
 

Abyssal Ruins

:MusicMakeYouLoseControl:
is a Tiering Contributor
Qualifications:

Confirming as 1nightinTHEASIANCY (cant find any screenshot with higher ELO but Trust me on this one??)

let's begin!


a strong nine to a ten sets new boundaries and redefines the genre. Redeifines THE GAME. tyranitar carries the entire adv OU population and should be benchmarked as such.

a nine contends for picks of the YEAR! the comfortness when using these mons cannot be rivaled... love using the nines in every Bo3. new ideas emerge when using these mons; consider these mons as Brain Food.

an eight symbolizes the
"pick of the month" contenders. Excellent options to ruminate when building with these eights mons. fits as top picks for my favorite archetypes and styles. get used to these mons--> EXPAND your building creativity?

a seven marks the solidarity of pokemon. I consider ideas based around these mons as sound . Also can provide above average results. the sevens dont feel the most consistent-- and feel hampered by shortcomings; Be AWARE of them.

e:
- 394 speeders work extremely well with roar skarm/pert/tar to distract DDers from +2. only realized these lines after thorough laddering + analyses of dizno and kerts spikes teams.
- flexibility matters huge!! Dynamic punch offpert 1v1d suicune. DDTar rock slide flinched defnsive cune from 100%->0% in recent tour game.
- holy sh!t p2 should drop to BL soon. (wait until 2022/2023?)

Biased Viability Rankings:
Strong 9 to a 10
Decent to Strong 9
Light to Decent 9
Strong 8 to a Light 9
Decent to Strong 8
Light to Decent 8
Strong 7 to a Light 8
Decent to Strong 7
Light to Decent 7
6
5
4
3
2
1
Ranch Dressing

pat your self on the back if you read tiL the end. I appreciate you for reading my first VR!
 
Another VR update. I still don't really believe in these things, but I figured I'd farm 15 likes before quitting this thing til I'm bored enough to play again.

CW: @ ppl expecting these to adhere to the opinions of whatev "great""player" you're idolizing these days

S:
:Tyranitar:
Sand is coarse, rough, irritating, and it gets everywhere

A+:
:Zapdos:
This dude's pretty good. DefCelebi and jolteon are extinct. rest and agilipass and everything in-between are all good.
:Metagross:
idk, its good.
:jirachi:
Sub cm bolt beam is stupid and cringe, but everyone respects it so much that rachi's actual sets are OP. If anyone starts using twave again this'll change.
:suicune:
Shadow-buffed by people opting for teams that don't require swampert and celebi/modest zapdos going to shadow realm. Suicune beats other bulky waters, so its use suicune or lose to suicune these days.
:skarmory:
spikes r good

A:
:salamence:
Nerfed since last patch bc everyone spams so much wish bs that it can't chip through stuff.
:celebi:
It struggles vs peckzap, gar+dug, and offcune, which are a lot more common these days. Other people rate it low these days because they're scared of sub rachi. @ those people, L2P.
:forretress:
I've completely bought into both the Roro school of forre+claydol spin spam, as well as the Dice approach of playing forre like a smeargle. And once these approaches become adequately respected, "traditional" forre will get stronger as well. Overall, forre's better and easier to use than it was a year or two ago.
:gengar:
It's in a decent spot, but these dbond sets are waaaay oversaturated. It's the epitome of a "threat of the move > the move itself" option. Load a real move instead and bluff it.
:snorlax:
Gets owned by special attackers less than the other special walls

A-:
:Swampert:
Swampert is defensive king of the hit-and-run game, and that game is not popular.
:Starmie:
Offstar is pretty good rn.
:claydol:
ADV's swiss army knife. super-soft-checks anything u want it to. Refresh (or rest even) aren't that bad.
:Heracross:
play this dude as an earlygame special pivot; pump up that bulk. Sub3atk is pretty low-variance. ~Nobody is good enough at this game to rationally complain about megahorn acc
:breloom:
people are better prepped for it, but it's still pretty good

B:
:moltres:
There's a lot of dol+rachi going around that struggles big time vs molt. Idk why people don't think it's good. Think protox molt might be its best set now.
:blissey:
its pretty good vs moltres and kingdra I suppose. Everyone running aroma/wish on this thing is a testament to how worthless it is at hindering opposing mons. IK some people win with blissey a lot. But my blissey userate is low and winrate lower. Maybe someday I'll understand why ppl use it.
:flygon:
Lots of teams are underprepped. Sand+spike immunity opens it up for creative move/item options.
:aerodactyl:
Offensive king of hit-and-run is down bad these days dropping lefties and running hpfight n whatnot. Just gets ppstalled or loses to rachi etc w standard set.
:Magneton:
spdef mag is a hilariously effective wall. Normal mag is pretty lame still.
:gyarados:
It's pretty good vs suicune+dol and modern special offense
C:
:vaporeon:
lots of good options on BP set. Defensive is underrated. Meadpass is OP af.
:Dugtrio:
Wouldn't give these 3 weirdos the time of day. Earlygame you just get spiked on. Lategame you just get swept. Not sure if I've used a dugtrio since the rona hit.
:Armaldo:
It's just a version of hariyama with passive HPsustain, ability to check crucial mons, and great dual-stabs. Surprise rapid spin isn't even bad either.
:milotic:
Shes FFFF tier if using without :Armaldo:, but it's strong with it
:charizard:
higher variance mon than hypnogar

D:
"Low Viability" mons I know can be very effective when played/placed well:


:aggron: :lanturn: :jolteon: :misdreavus:
Spike Balance Allstars
:dusclops: :flareon: :registeel: :steelix: :hariyama:
Stall Mons
:slaking: :rhydon: :raikou: [swift swim mons] [random fighters]
Offense Mons
:exeggutor: :regice: :registeel: :wailord: :lunatone: :solrock: :weezing: :camerupt::glalie::cloyster:
Anything that learns boom
:jumpluff: :smeargle: :venusaur: :Smogjynx:
Anything with a 75+ Sleep move
:ninjask: :marowak: :pinsir: :umbreon: :alakazam: :mawile:
Cheese mons (except not mead pass; that's at the top of A- tier)
E:
:porygon2:
quack
 
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S
Tar is self explanatory, sand is good. I will say I use more sandless teams than I used to but not without careful consideration of how to construct the rest.

A+
Gengar is a staple on stally teams, offensive teams, and most things inbetween. It is incredible with either spikes or dugtrio, which should be a ton of the teams used anyway. Explosion-less is kind of bad and offensively limiting. To be more precise, being a spike and toxic immune with high speed gives it many switchin opportunities. Moveset versatility makes it unpredictable. Wisp misses suck so treat it as a luxury not a necessity.

Spikes are a fundamental component of the tier and skarm is the best spiker. Phazeless is just asking to lose to meta so I don’t really fuck with that trend. Protectless is valid but please pair it with gar to make the spikes stick more.

Zap, much like gar, fits on many types of teams and has many different sets. It’s good both offensively and defensively. Blissey is the only real answer and can obviously get bypassed by spikes / dug / boom / hpfight.

Speaking of, bliss is the only real answer to lots of things defensively (molt, offmie). Wish / aroma are fantastic support moves. Twave / toxic are great offensive moves. Any heavily bulky team needs to justify not using bliss. Skarmory is #3 and like 90% of skarm teams should also have bliss.

A
Swampert is the best physical wall in the tier. It’s sand immune, resists rock, resists steel, and isn’t weak to any physical typing. It can also be an offensive threat with focus / endeavor sets.

Meta is worse than pert defensively but better offensively, thanks to boom. Impish is good but mandates spin or mag to not give skarm too much room. Meta’s boom is absurdly strong and it pretty much at least trades every game. Mix sets are solid. Pursuit is cool. CB instaboom is fun and effective.

Rachi is good at both walling and sweeping. Wishtect is hard to kill and it matches up nicely vs things like meta and aero for a “special” wall, which really makes it more of a mixed wall. Still, fire + slam or tox is very annoying. Sub CM is solid with spikes but requires some specific teams. Super with psy fire grass is extremely good offensively. Rachi also offers invaluable resists for some teams like zapdug.

Mence is versatile and very useful defensively for an offensive mon. Mix is the most consistent but fillers can range from wish to roar to whatever else. Dance is a solid offensive tool but obviously needs to be set up properly. Band feels pretty terrible lately but maybe it can work sometimes idk. Anyway intimidate is amazing insurance vs other dancers and makes it an overall nice pivot. Again, fits on fat and offense alike.

A-
Dug gets so much hate lately!!! Letting stuff DD isn’t a huge deal. Letting skarm spike early game is annoying but either use spin or the right offensive teammates and it should be fine. It can trap tar, bliss, meta, rachi... and many other viable pokemon with minimal chip. That will always be viable.

Aero has the holy sand + spike immune combo while also being faster than pretty much everything else. Hindered by wishtect rachi but still the bane of zapdug’s existence and nearly always useful. Awesome check to cm’ers and ddtar alike. HP fight is valid for sure.

Starmie has rapid spin. Bulky twave is solid support vs pert / meta / mence types and is more directly threatening to skarm than dol is. It can be pursuited sometimes but still a solid poke. Offensive is good but please stop using pump. More specialdug teams should use offmie.

Dol is the king of passive healing. While everything else is getting chipped down it just ignores spikes and heals in sand. It doesn’t directly beat skarm but the very fact that it sticks around makes it good. Refresh, rest, and boom are all viable. Not amazing at walling anything but decent vs a whole lot.

Suicune is mad overrated. Like it’s still A- and demands certain checks but like. Sleep talk is shit in adv. Lone rest is so passive and mandates a cleric. It also takes sand. Offensive is still solid but bulky sets are extremely unreliable vs spikes.

B+
Celebi is a solid water answer. Leech seed is a good move, as is bp. Offensive sets are solid but hate Aero. It’s not a super reliable special wall given stuff like zap pecking, mie ice fishing, or molt just owning. Dug also kills cele at a much higher hp than it kills say bliss.

Flygon is a champ. Fast, spike immune rock resist. The greatest tar/aero answer if you can’t spin. Embrace giving skarm turns and abuse with gar / zap / molt. This thing gets way too much hate.

Magneton is viable because skarm is so good. Just remember mag beats skarm the wall not skarm the spiker. It’s a spinner’s job to actually remove the spikes. However, this is already 2 slots dedicated to something you might not even face so use magdol with caution. Do good magdol 6’s even exist?

Moltres abuses any team that drops blissey. Being a more direct threat to meta / rachi with a more spammable stab is great.

Lax’s main issue is 4mss. Curse slam eq sball boom are all desired. Focus and counter are also great options. You need to figure out which of tar meta gar skarm you’re okay giving more room to. Still, it’s a non-passive special wall that can get some crucial booms off.

B
Milo is technically an amazing wall but anything setup oriented kinda fucks with it. Cm mons especially. Great vs mixmence, pert, etc.

Loom is still a threat but people aren’t 6-0d by it anymore.

Forry is grounded and has to respect fire moves. It is worse than Skarm. Spin is tempting but pulling it off alongside spike is very difficult vs gar.

B-
These are okay pokemon that can fit on some specific teams but need a noticeable amount of support to work. I’m tempted to make cloy and jolt even lower.

C
These pokemon are viable on pretty specific teams but can definitely work.

D
These pokemon are a bit less viable but can still work.

E
I’ve heard about or seen things here winning but idk how or when. Also probably haven’t used myself.

Thanks to everyone who posted and contributed to the discussion
 
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S+ Rank
(The best of the best, Pokemon here centralize the metagame and can nuke everything since these have big movepools and enough stats to pressure everything)


Tyranitar is the best pokemon in ADV Metagame, it setup Sand in field, it have nice defensive stats and nice offensive stats, its movepool is one of the biggest since it can run lot of different sets, it can be used Choice Band, Dragon Dancer with or without bulk, it can be used Mixed, Special Attacker, and lot of niche options as well, this Pokemon forces you to scout its sets on a game and can always be a threat well played since it can sweep or just tank and kill back, Metagame is played and centralized on this Pokemon.

S Rank
(Pokemon in this rank can pressure everything, they are just too good due their high movepool but not that broken like Tyranitar, Pokemon here have the capability to break everything but lack the balance Tyranitar have on stats)


I consider Metagross a centralizing Pokemon in ADV Metagame and one of the best Pokemon in defensive and offensive capability, having such a big natural bulk and steel typing makes it solid enough to start, the atk base it have is really strong, this Pokemon can run CB sets to break defensive teams, can run Mixed sets to hit everything, can be used with Agility as sweeper or Trapper with Pursuit, the most notable thing is it can always do Explosion
vs something you need to remove so it can create offensive holes that can be exploited or just remove something that threat your team, Metagross is oftenly used as a rock switch-in, mostly Aerodactyl and with the natural bulk this Pokemon have it can survive strong hits and hit back taking a kill.


Gengar is another Pokemon that forces you to scout its sets, it have a huge variety of moveset having access to Hypnosis to force switchs, it can be fully offensive with Explosion to take a kill or Fire Punch/HP Grass or another coverage move, it can be used with PerishTrap, Destiny Bond to take down something, Defensive with Will-O-Wisp and being Ghost helps a lot to keep hazzards agaisnt Forretress / Claydol / Cloyster, since it can force switches this Pokemon can take advantage of that and hit Focus Punch to take down Tyranitar in the switch or hit another coverage with predicts, another thing that makes this pokemon really dangerous is the accuracy of Hypnosis, because lot of teams in actual metagame have to sack a Pokemon agaisnt sleep and if sleep fails you have a free turn to hit damaging moves.


Jirachi is another good Steel and probably the best with Metagross, it have a nice natural bulk and decent offensive stats, have access to a big movepool which forces opponent to scout sets, it can run SubCM sets to sweep, it can be Wish with CM or Protect, Full Offensive and even Choice Band set, Mixed is another option but its not very common, this pokemon can force switchs as well and SubCM set can win most of the times agaisnt Blissey, also with the natural bulk this pokemon have it can survive stuff like Dugtrio and Body Slam back or kill if you are at +1, take Rock Slides from Aerodactyl or wall something you need giving specific EV spreads.

A+ Rank
(Pokemon that are really good at breaking or tanking, but they are not too threatening as the above rank Pokemon).


Zapdos is really nice, this Pokemon have ground inmunity which is amazing, it have good offensive capabilities to break since it can run Mixed sets to threat Celebi Blissey and other walls, it can be Sub Pass to enable offense, it can be 3Atk with BPass to bring into game something that gives you momentum and can be used as SpDef wall too, being able to fill these roles is always nice, sadly this Pokemon can be walled by Blissey, Snorlax, and other stuff, I put it in A+ because even when its walled it can always break and if it can´t you just Baton Pass into a predict or in a turn you need to get advantage in the game


Swampert is very centralizing, having a Water/Ground type gives it a lot of defensive utility and having Torrent with its decent offensive stats makes it a worth Pokemon to be used, this Pokemon have lot of sets, being mostly used as a defensive answer to rock types and Metagross / Jirachi walling them with Protect, also this mon can phaze out setup users with Roar, can take down DD users with it own bulk or it can aim to break teams using offensive sets like Mixed or Sub Endeavor which end taking a kill most of the times.


Suicune is a Pokemon that can be played Offensive and Defensively as well, it can be even used in both forms using 1 set, this Pokemon natural bulk is high enough and can use Calm Mind to break defensive teams or just sweep, this one dont have many sets but can avoid explosion users using Substitute, it can threat non CM Celebi with Substitute and Calm Mind, it can setup vs Statused Blissey and take down DD Users, talking defensively this Pokemon can tank almost everything and with CM Rest it can sweep in late game since nothing will bring it down, Suicune once CM Celebi is removed of the game can autowin lot of games alone.

A Rank
(Pokemon that are very good offensively or defensively, but cant break / wall enough).


Salamence works amazing because it have Intimidate as trait, it have nice offensive stats and good movesets as well, this Pokemon can be used Mixed, CB, DD, Wish, and other niche moves which forces your opponent to scout the set it have, this pokemon can always come into game and put pressure, it can tank offensive fighting type Pokemon without need of bulk and it can always come into game to keep in control threats.


Blissey for me is something really hard to face, most people use it as cleric or support with Thunder Wave and Aromatheraphy, it usually struggles vs CM Suicune and CM Jirachi, but people never use CM on Blissey, in my experience using it with Calm Mind you can threat lot of stuff and defeat the CM'ers that defeat Blissey, this pokemon already have a really big HP stat and high spdef stat so it can solve lot of flaws in teams, this Pokemon have access to sleep too, definitely worth of this place and probably a higher rank.


Self-Explanatory, it setup Spikes, can recover with Protect, it can wall lot of stuff and Roar/Whirlwind them and it have access to Drill Peck so it avoids getting focus punched, this Pokemon have niche sets as well but these are cteam oriented, its the best spiker in the game.


Self-Explanatory as well, it just comes in and trap something you need to remove, amazing to kill Blissey Metagross Tyranitar Jirachi Celebi, the list is big.

A- Rank
(Pokemon in this rank focus only in a role, they are good because pressure a lot in good spots).


Aerodactyl is the best offensive Pokemon for me, if its alive it can always win since Rock type is the best offensive type in ADV Metagame, having a powerful STAB Rock Slide with % of flinch makes it always a threat, also its one of the fastest Pokemon in ADV Metagame, only Jolteon tie in speed with this pokemon.


Celebi is amazing defensively since it can tank almost everything and recover with leech seed / recover, also its typing let you wall water pokemon and electric types too which is very important, it have access to Baton Pass so it can escape from Dugtrio or enable offensive / defensive turns to keep you in a good position during the game, offensively its not too good but this Pokemon can always enable offense passing CM or SD Boosts or just doing BP after do a leech seed.


This pokemon its important in ADV Metagame because it can always boom into something to take a kill and it have nice buk overall, it have lot of sets being most used CurseLax, Rest Curse, 4 ATK and Mixed sometimes, CB exists but its not used very often, this can sponge hits during the game and take kills to create holes on opposing team, sometimes you will require predict in order to get maximum use of this one and sadly you will have to choose a coverage move to be removed, so you get walled by a steel, or tyranitar or gengar, you have to pick well looking at your team weaknesses.

----------------------
from this rank I will just explain the rankings and not analysis of every mon.

B+ Rank
Pokemon in this rank can threaten ADV OU metagame with correct support, being most notable Jolteon and Starmie in Spikes offenses, these pokemon are fast but dont have enough power to kill thats why they require support to chip teams and keep into KO range them, Heracross is a powerful threat with CB / SubSalac set and can be used Restalk w Guts to wall Gengar or sweep stall teams once flying types are gone, Gyarados can always come in on late game and setup to end sweeping.

B Rank
Pokemon here are mostly support Pokemon that do important roles to create holes into opposing teams, Magneton for example removes Skarmory and Forretress keeping the field with only 1 Spike, it can trap and revenge kill weakened metagross too, Milotic is an amazing wall with access to Marvel Scale which increases its bulk, while Breloom have access to Spore and forces switchs while you load a powerful Focus Punch or predict Gengar and hit HP Ghost, Moltres is decent but it must be paired with Spikes to work, without Spikes it just dont work.

B- Rank
BL Pokemon that have a good niche in the metagame, Jynx have access to sleep and can threat some leads like MixMence, Zapdos, Skarmory. Vaporeon is nice because as lead can win vs the most common leads, it can setup Substitute and activate Salac Berry passing it into an offensive threat while Hariyama is bulk af and can absorb Gengar burns to increase its attack.

C Rank
Pokemon here can wall specific stuff or they just do a specific role, for example Flygon can wall DD Tyranitar but u have to scout Tyranitar set first, it can be CB but requires flying types and Celebi/Gengar gone to be very effective, Cloy and Forre setup Spikes but cant defeat Gengar, still they can Explode and take a kill which is good, Regice Camerupt have cool defensive usages but they shine since they hit hard enough and have access to explosion removing fat walls to support your offensive mons while Charizard can always break if it comes into game on a good turn.

C- Rank
Pokemon here have niches, they can win games but requires lot of support to work, those are the "decent" niche mons ADV have but I wouldn't take them too seriously because as I said, they need lot of support to do something.

D Rank
Pokemon that have a small niche, these are mostly bad but actually have an usage, I just include those because they have been used with an specific niche but still can only get past through limited Pokemon in the above ranks, Pokemon here just sucks lol...
---------------------------------

Thats my VR, hope you enjoy it and sorry my broken english lol
 
Last edited:

UD

BeerLover
is a Pre-Contributor
I am going to do something a little bit different this time where I make my viability rankings an exact 1:1 correlation between my usage stats from the past year-ish. The "tournament-ready" teams from that time period I will be using for this analysis are shown below:

Screen Shot 2021-11-05 at 10.00.33 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-11-05 at 10.01.36 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-11-05 at 10.02.10 PM.png

20 teams to choose from for this exercise makes it nice and easy if the viewers at home want to calculate the usage rate. In parentheses under each Mon are that particular Mon's raw usage count. In the case of ties, I did put the Mons in order of which I feel are better. Meaning this list is completely ordered. I will also add Pokemon that I haven't used at all; they will be denoted by the lack of numbers in parentheses next to their name. Everything that I did not use once in the past year by default was placed in "Tier C" or below. And finally, I was forced to "disobey" my raw data on one occasion that will be glaringly obvious to anyone who knows me. In that situation, I simply couldn't bring myself to rank the Mons where they should be according to my stats.


S

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(13/20)

Still the best, it will always be the best. Nothing will ever even come close. There is only one flaw with Tyranitar and it's that Pursuit is a necessary evil in ADV, but it's also Tar's worst set by far. So it's kind of a crappy compromise that needs to be made unless you're brave enough to be 6-0'd by Gengar.


A+

1636166365665.png

(9/20)

Gar is the only Mon who comes close to matching Tyranitar in terms of versatility. It's not as good as Tar of course, but it's far better than everything else in the tier. WoW has zero switch ins, in fact Gengar has no switch ins that aren't completely boned by something it can do, period. If you don't agree with me, then I don't agree with you disagreeing with me.

1636169508733.png

(10/20)

Apparently I don't know myself as well as I thought I did. I hate Snorlax, but actually I love it considering I use it on 50% of my teams. Snorlax is a pretty good all around check to the tier, has a strong Boom, and fits well on Sand-less offenses, which was a style I used a lot of in the past year. It's still absolutely horrible against Skarm/Gar/Tar though.


A

1636166510778.png

(8/20)

Suicune is amazing. Offensive Cune is a bit of a matchup fish but it applies absurd pressure (pun intended) after just one boost against teams that don't have a Blissey or Toxic Milotic. At least Milo shits its pants clicking Toxic into an unrevealed Cune set. Rest is scary too but a little more predictable and easy to play around. RD is the best weather clearer in the tier, bar none, and even sweeps on its own pretty nicely.

1636169678036.png

(8/20)

I was also surprised by how much Salamence I've been using. But I do love the defensive sets, and basically every Mence is pretty good defensively anyway just by nature. Good versatility + good offensive sets + good natural bulk makes an A+ Mon.

1636166637620.png

(7/20)

All sets are pretty good but I hate BP / HP Fire / Giga Drain. Leech Seed is an OP move; defensive sets can be absolutely impossible to kill for some teams. Sub + BP is slept on too. Celebi is just a good overall half check to just about everything while having decent offensive presence to boot.


A-

1636170037243.png

(5/20)

Best Bulky Water in ADV, really good all around. Can go fully offensive with Leftovers, fully offensive with Salac, mix and match with offensive spreads with max HP, or just fully max Defense. Mono Surf is still good too and Pert has the ever useful Roar, something Milotic and Blissey would kill for (purely defensive Mons want Phazing moves).

1636169985778.png

(5/20)

On the scale from Cringe to Based, Jirachi is most certainly cringe. But it has a good typing and access to quite a few good moves. CM with only two attacks is a really overhyped set. I'm not a big fan of sacrificing an extra attacking move for a move that is essentially a fish that aims for certain counters. Thunder remains bad.

1636170080837.png

(5/20)

Fits my playstyle and team building really nicely. Amazing typing, perfect support movepool, can surprise with an offensive spread and hit pretty hard, etc. Great Mon, really should be used more by all players.

1636170096692.png

(5/20)

Zapdos is fine. It's like the McDonald's of Pokemon. Consistently good quality and will never let you down, yet it's always outclassed by other choices.


B+

1636170132797.png

(4/20)

I prefer mixed Metagross sets that can hit Skarmory hard since the combination of Mash + EQ + Boom + last move filler is not actually very good coverage in ADV. In fact, Steel coverage (much like Psychic) has a habit of making your moveset less optimal than it otherwise could be. Meteor Mash is still a great move but it doesn't make any progress without attack boosts against Pert or Skarmory, and that is just annoying.

1636170151948.png

(4/20)

Spikes + Spin = good combination. What's Counter all about? I'm not convinced yet but my attention is piqued. Toxic is nice, Boom is nice, EQ is obviously nice. If Forry got a Phazing move then it could be top 5 in ADV probably. (Remember, purely defensive Mons are 100x better if they can Phaze.)


B

1636170288572.png

(3/20)

Skarm should obviously be higher than this. It's a casualty of the stats but it's not so egregious that I feel like I need to intervene. Obviously best Spiker in the tier and weirdly hits kinda hard with Drill Peck lol. Amazing Mon.

1636170321767.png

(3/20)


Awesome package all-in-one. Great STAB, super fast, good coverage in general. Can hit everything hard and be fast while doing it (giggity?). Can also be fully defensive (try special defensive! It's actually legit) and be incredible against Skarm + Tar + Aero teams. Also it is a pain in the ass for HP Grass offenses, i.e. the ones that were ubiquitous a few years ago (HP Grass Zap + Meta + Offensive Pert etc.).

1636170354130.png

(3/20)

Pretty stupid but also really effective. Lamest and most boring Mon in ADV? Yes.

1636170400701.png

(3/20)


I actually rate Vaporeon lol. It has a sick movepool, incredible ability (Suicune Gamers Everywhere HATE This One Trick! Click To Read More), and reasonably good stats. Though unfortunately you can never be fast, strong, and bulky at once. You must sacrifice one of the three. For a pro-tip, I strongly suggest a moveset of Wish / Baton Pass / (Roar or Protect) / Hydro Pump with tons of SpA and a decent Speed stat, rest EVs in Defense. Sick Mon.

1636170421775.png

(3/20)


Heracross is not very good but I will continue using it just for the 1/50 chance I play one of those horrible Mag Dol teams that loses 6-0 to it.

1636170432145.png

(3/20)


Still not that good but not that bad either. Removing Skarm is pivotal for so many teams. Lowkey great defensive typing. Honestly, if Magneton had Levitate, I think the majority of Mags would be using Levitate over Magnet Pull and it would be the absolute greatest physical wall ADV has ever seen. Or maybe none of that would happen and I'm just rambling. It's fun to speculate though.


B-

1636170474823.png

(2/20)

Awesome destroyer of cheese and low ladder Mons in general. Can be played really aggressively too, with switches on Celebi and even Jirachi clicking Calm Mind (this is also why I don't like dropping Psychic on them just btw). Insanely fast Rock Slide is the best get out of jail free card in ADV.

1636170493353.png

(2/20)


I love Regice. Incredibly strong Ice Beam, probably the best switch in against the three best special attackers in ADV (Gar/Zapdos/Starmie), and even has decent physical bulk, only truly fearing Tar, Meta, and the Fighting Mons. My pro-tip for using Regice is to ditch Explosion. It's too slow to effectively use Explosion game to game - I think as a rule of thumb, most/all Explosion Mons should aim to click it every game - and frankly it's just too weak lol. You actually NEED Dugtrio 10000% if you ever plan on killing anything fat with Regice Boom. But most importantly, I think Regice can just get more value out of another move in that slot, so I would rather use the move I might use in 50% of battles instead of the one I might click 5% of the time. Sleep Talk is great filler btw.

1636170503225.png

(2/20)


Nice Mon. Good bulk, pump its Att if you want to be threatening but be careful because Zapdos does 40%+ now and you need to Boom to touch it. I like Relaxed with max Defense and Ice Beam to actually check Salamence and Aero, not to mention the aforementioned Zapdos. Also it is the best Spinner for sure but it's still not that easy to successfully Spin into Gar.

1636170518739.png

(2/20)


Not my cup of tea. It is undoubtedly great though. Wish feels kinda played out. Although I definitely appreciate not being scared of my opponent's Blissey being capable of, you know, doing anything at all to me. Remember when T-Wave or Toxic actually threatened loads of Mons? Why did either of those moves fall out of favor?

1636170537525.png

(2/20)


Super strong, but super squishy. Average Speed tier too although it can get >394 with a Salac boost. Just you can't use Adamant nature so that sucks.

1636170548850.png

(2/20)


Very slow paced and boring to use. Hax magnet, weak, no versatility, yawn, boring, maybe Hypnosis sometimes, oh but you miss 85% of the time, hmm what about Refresh? Yawnnnnn.

C+

1636170642125.png

(1/20)

Excellent defensive typing coupled with the best defensive Ability is a great place to start! Can be super strong with Taunt or just DD + three attacks, Sub last works too to block Booms. Asta's HP Ghost set feels like the smartest thing I saw in ADV the past calendar year. Amazing Mon, actually should be way higher than this. Of course its problem is being way weaker than Mence (susceptible to Bulky Waters with Toxic which it's supposed to be good against) and no access to Rock Slide. Still good Mon though.

1636170681429.png

(1/20)


It's not bad. The coverage is atrocious though like come on. Mono Fighting is just not good at all. It's also nowhere near as broken as people say it is by virtue of its poor defensive typing and bad coverage, meaning it can be forced back out quite easily (I like Leech Seed for exactly this reason, to at least gain a bit of momentum back when you switch out). Oh and you sort of have to pretend Dugtrio doesn't exist when using it. Sub can mitigate Dug but in reality that won't always do the trick. And Breloom + P2 = Unviable Cringe. Mach Punch + Pursuit Tar is fine I guess but again that is Unviable Cringe and also you're probably 6-0'd to Offensive Starmie and Offensive Cune when using those two together even if you don't want to admit it.

1636170695232.png

(1/20)


Very good at what it does, just its role is becoming increasingly narrow in today's metagame. But I will keep repeating this: there is no counter to a perfectly played Roar + Baton Pass Jolteon with Spikes down, except for Claydol. I like pairing it with an Offensive Water type for exactly that reason.

1636170714864.png

(1/20)


It's like if Gengar had stronger moves but was slower. Or if Gengar didn't fear Pursuit Tar as much and could serve as a dedicated WoW spreader / mixed wall Boomer. With HP Fight and WoW, you can all but guarantee a Boom on the opposing Milo/Bulky Starmie/Blissey/Celebi (hit it on the switch in cuz Psychic threat), and you can force WoW on Skarmory because Skarm usually will take that trade once it realizes it walls your other moves. That is super valuable with the right teammates (Curselax without Magneton says hi!).

1636170730149.png

(1/20)


Actually it's pretty good. I like Raikou, just not very splashable and suffers from 4MSS since Crunch last with HP Grass would really be great but no Sub = yuck.

1636170741557.png

(1/20)


I used a lot of Jynx finally and now I feel like the Jynx truthers have just been pulling the wool over our eyes lol. It's truly not very good at all. Out of at least 50 games on ladder with it, I don't think I once scored the lead 6-0 like they all claim to be so ever-possible. Fact of the matter is you do the following 99.9% of the time: 1. die on T1 after missing, 2. hit Lovely Kiss T1 and force out Tar/Mence/Zap whatever, 3. start boosting up against incoming Blissey/Meta/Jirachi/Suicune, 4. lose the 1v1 against them unless you Freeze and they stay Frozen forever. At least it put something to Sleep in that scenario but yeah it's not that good.

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(1/20)


Horrible lol like I'd say anything else about it


C (I did not build a new team using any of these Mons in the past 12+ months!)

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Starmie is by far the most obvious omission. Amazing Mon, the destroyer of offenses everywhere. It's just the worst defensive Mon in ADV and thus hard to fit on any team.

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Not a fan of Moltres. 9/10 times is just straight up outclassed by Zapdos.

I may come back later and fill out the rest of the niche Mon tiers, but for now this captures the big picture of ADV for me.
 

Attachments

Preamble:
This is a reflection on my overall beliefs with regards to each mon's usefulness on a game-to-game basis, overall metagame impact, and my preferences. Apologies in advance if my thoughts are disorganized (I'm way too lazy to punctuate properly) or rehash what others have said. I'll try to address any questions or clarify further on discord if it's needed (Jester#9532). TL;DR tier list is at the bottom if you don't care about the explanations and just want to see the rankings.

Ban Sleep.


S

:rs/tyranitar:


obviously. every set's good; I really enjoy pursuit tars that are speed crept to outspeed uninvested base 70s. fast pursuit tars are really good in general, and its last two slots are hella flexible (taunt's a personal fav for stopping recovery. tox, focus, brick break all good). subpunch is surprisingly strong for how little use it sees, especially paired with cmpass bi. roar can honestly feel like kind of a wasted slot, but it's obviously good for facing setup and as a general catch-all while still benefitting from spikes. endure sets have promise, even without dd. standard jolly bug dd always feels good on teams that properly work towards it. liechi dedge and salac are also great for turning the tide on teams that have linear counterplay versus it.


A+


:rs/gengar:

gar's Pretty Good, Fortunately. wisp + taunt and wisp + boom are the defaults for the reason. i think that dropping below 330 speed is a waste of a gar; you gain too much value from owning fast zaps, gons, and especially superbis. mosts sets pair perfectly with dug. pretty much essential on a lot of special offenses. dbond's a great way to both ensure spikes stay up, and also aids teams that're weak vs offensive cmers. 3 utility + tbolt is great, but should only be used if dropping ice punch can really be justified. night shade's really interesting, but i can't say that I've used it enough to give a proper opinion. i'll never rely on hypnosis, but good lord is it ridiculous to deal with.

:rs/metagross:

tied with gengar for number two. goes on every team. everyone knows why it's good. never drop boom, it's a waste of a metagross. dont let your set get magged for free. pursuit mixed is extremely nice on offenses that are stretched thin; pair with rs dol. cbgross + skarm manipulates overambitious mags.

:rs/blissey:

can't drop ice beam anymore, but it's still ridiculously good. defbi/astarachi are great in their own right, but they can't hope to compare. any mindless move will get punished in pokemon; going hard bliss as zap bps to fighter/dug/meta turn 1 is no different. 2 flexible slots on a mon like bliss is more than enough flexibility. wish is like my second favorite move in the game. spikes offenses with bliss rock. snatch, tbolt, toxic, all great as well. sing is disgusting.

:rs/skarmory:

little things with skarm are what matters. speed creep + taunt is so rewarding in the ditto. classic toxtect still great, even if it's less easy to just throw on than dpeck. phaseless skarm's mostly nonsense. still better than yolo, though. skarmdug's great but it needs a spinner.

:rs/swampert:

oftentimes, offpert can feel better than offcune on special offenses. better defense + preventing blissey from healing is ridic, although quiet should usually be run over rash. monopert's pretty slept on, and surf + focus punch is also good. every single pert ever should run some sort of spatk investment. not only for skarm, but also:


0 SpA Swampert Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 290-342 (96.3 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO.


before hydro accuracy.

:rs/zapdos:


you can't just forgo a plan vs it. thoughtful play goes along way, but it's still a zapdos. bulky restless zaps with twave/tox/roar will always be vital in keeping offenses glued together. ice + tox is great for catching people off guard. modest/dpeck cleave through everything, but i don't care for dropping grass for fight at all. zapdug continues to be good (duh).

Jirachi Tier:

:rs/jirachi:

it's obviously very strong, but i don't subscribe to the idea that it's "top 5" or whatever. subcm really isn't THAT insane, and it sucks when the game rewards clicking ice punch once from an unfavorable position when it should lose. that being said, being able to replicate that with any sort of consistency is part of what makes it good. asta is also in a weird spot when it half-checks everything, but is a crit away from a super-effective attack making it explode. zap twaving it is nightmarish, and gengar +bkctar really exploit the teams it finds itself on. super is the most outright terrifying to see setup, but it obviously needs support to get going. +defense should be used more often, both on wishtect and bulky cm sets. band/mix are sick as hell and underrated.

give freeze clause.


A

:rs/salamence:


i'm one of maybe two cbmence lovers on the planet. it's an excellent set, but you still need mag. yama + dol is a cool idea, but it still moves way too slowly in practice for your mence to get anything substantial done before dying to sand. ddmence has really seen a resurgence in the last few months, although it's really silly to claim that it was ever bad. running 3 atks is vital (although which 3 is variable by team), and so is being able to outspeed jolt/aero at +1. mixmence is the most reliable set. the defense it gives to any team it's on is just as irreplaceable as its offense. wish and roar is mostly a balance thing; switching around pert is too hard for most offenses to warrant dropping grass. defensive should see more experimentation (the physical variant with hp fly and bb/eq, specifically), but dropping below 270 speed is asking to lose. +atk mixmence is great for making teams less reliant on things going their way vs bliss. adamant bandmence is the only one.

:rs/dugtrio:


not banworthy or unviable garbage, just good. facilitates offense while preventing opposing offense from snowballing. obviously have to build around the things that set up on it; pert is probably the best defensive partner, despite the seeming redundancy with jolly. adamant's way more useful the majority of the time, anyway; if you're relying on jolly for ddtar, you deserve to lose. teams that are exceptionally weak to endpert and offmie should still consider it.


:rs/celebi:

it's as good as it always has been. offensive sets rule the most, but defensive leech is still great when you're not spamming recover, waiting to be crit (although it still usually needs a spinner). recently my teams have tended towards superbi > cmpass, but obviously both are great as ever. leech 2atk (usually giga + fire) bp is absolutely amazing on offense to help keep momentum while also providing a little bit of sustainability. dropping fire without mag requires getting too many reads right for my liking. defensive, like mence, should always hit at least 270. need ways to check/pivot around dpeck zap and can't switch it hard into mixed attackers, but you have 5 other mons for a reason.


A-

:rs/aerodactyl:

kind of a flying dugtrio. hp bug/fight should be something that's really considered before they're thrown on. liechi's neat on offenses that facilitate it. as much as I love +atk, the speed's way too important on all besides two teams.

:rs/suicune:


offcune's the most immediately (and overall) terrifying set. all cunes have a million roadblocks to be able to get going, mostly because sand turns it from a defensive juggernaut into wet paper. defensive is basically useless without a spinner, but it's still the most ridiculous setup mon in the game when it's properly gameplanned around. I tend to agree with the idea that asta's modest crocune is way better than running bold and still not switching into anything. roar's really strong with spikes and way more reliable with a cleric.


:rs/starmie:

offmie is basically special aero. defensive is good too. running slow mie is basically a death wish, though. modest is talked about a lot, but nabbing endpert and gengar's usually way too valuable to pass up.


B+

:rs/moltres:

the threat of wisp can often be just as scary as actually clicking it. lots of flexibility with its last two slots. pairs well with just about every fast cleaner. if you're not using it with spikes, you're usually better off with any of zap/gar/zard, but there's instances where it can work (metagross switchin with wisp can bring a lot to offense, while stacking defensive redundancy with cune on fatter structures can prevent dreadful boom mindgames). sunny day pairs especially well with cune, but fat weather reset can feel unreliable in general. the aforementioned up-tempo offenses are probably the only times where fire blast can be justified over flamethrower. always modest.

:rs/claydol:

annoying to have to put on any team, but the best spinner in the game for a reason. all of those previously mentioned defensive mons that need spikes off the field basically treat this as a backpack. having a t1 pivot vs tar is so nice, although fat subzaps will still kind of own it unless you have rock slide (pursuit). boom is still required.

:rs/magneton:

offenses with it suck, but it's really annoying for a lot of teams, even after the skarm is dead. zapmag is a deadly surprise for greedy skarm, and even forre. really bulky lefties can go a long way when it comes to halfchecking things like zap/jolt, boltbeam gar and rachi, and even aero and bandmence. skarmmag is awesome. most magdols blow. i haven't run grass mag in a long time, and i can't imagine a balance/fat team that wants to trap skarm and not forre.

:rs/milotic:

too many ways to exploit this, but it does pair very well with skarmdug. defensive redundancy remains important. offensive is surprisingly powerful, and obviously hypnosis is busted. offensive milobi is really cool on both sdpass (helps with the inherent molt weakness) and cmpass.

B

:rs/flygon:

flygod. sub 3atk adamant with a little bit of bulk investment is my favorite set. obviously needs pursuit and loves mag, but it's a monster on a team that properly facilitates it. 4atk w/ fireblast is nice too. kind of like a more flexible aero in the sense that it's also great vs offense. superman's cool, but i prefer it on skarmmag/skarmspin stuff (pairs nicely with spin recover mie).

:rs/jolteon:

still the best mon for learning adv. pairing it with cele can kinda help to alleviate the pain that every water move makes it feel, although these builds tend to be awkward for other reasons (lots of tar entry points). while spikes teams with it absolutely need to keep them up (dbond gar), it's actually not bad without them. twave 3atk with bite is unironically pretty good; it midgrounds cele and dol. paraflinching down bi will never get old. unlike zap, ice isn't really something it can afford.

:rs/heracross:

still the best fighter. it's just strong, not much else to say. sub punch / sd focus are both great for deleting something off of the planet. lefties >>> cb, salac. kinda awkward to just switch in, so especially great on zapvap subpass offenses. balances with it feel awkward, while offenses usually get kinda cleaved through by fast attackers. hard to fit brick break, but being able to actually hit the magneton in front of you might have a little bit of value. sub liechi is something to think about. jolly's fake, you know the drill.

:rs/charizard:

criminally underrated. holds a lot of mixed offenses together. good for some of the same reasons that molt is, but ultimately a pretty different mon. really hard to switch into without a milo/cune. 4 atk with dclaw is preferable to sub. easing prediction is great and all, but going toe to toe with mixmence is huge, especially when it tears apart the types of teams zard finds itself on. toxic can fit in the last slot to deter molt. +spatk preferable on spikes teams, but +speed definitely has its uses on offenses.

:rs/breloom:

100% sleep. mach 3atk is great, subleech is decently good too (although it has the same magneton problem as hera). ghost seems cool for ensuring that your pursuit will kill, but you should really just be using blackglasses at that point. still interesting with pursuit metagross. bug and stun spore are both cool, too.

:rs/vaporeon:

vap pass rocks, defensive vap sucks. especially fast-paced teams should considering running salac.

:rs/forretress:

I really wanted to put this down in B- below Gyara, but unfortunately rational thought won out. feels like such a reactive mon; even when super risky plays end up working out, they don't really make progress outside of resetting the situation. i also find forredol insufferable, think it makes you even more swingy vs skarm. eq + boom should still be the standard, in my opinion, but people who are more experienced with using The Ball definitely know better than i do.

B-

:rs/cloyster:

spikes on waters except when it doesn't, gets 3hkod by everything in the tier and also ohko'd by toxic. it's still not bad. emergency spin's really nice. while usually the speed is vital so that you get a spike and a boom, balances can consider running -speed and a ton of bulk as a forre-esque mon that cushions vs offpert.

:rs/hariyama:

the most overrated mon of the past year. horrible matchup into offensive teams requires that it really leans on its teammates. really bad at switching into even unresisted hits from tar, but focus punch offensive sets >>>>> whirlwind rest do-nothing stuff. knock still destroys slow-paced structures, of course.

:rs/gyarados:

probably the most difficult mon for me to conceptualize in the builder, which has kinda resulted in low usage. 3 atk dd is definitely worse than utility sets, of which there are lot of options (twave, taunt, toxic, rest). some sets may choose to even forgo dd entirely; i've recently been testing taunt + toxic.

C+

:rs/medicham:

if you took jolteon's "get every turn right and you win immediately" mantra and turned it up to 11, you'd get medi. ive used band the most out of all of its sets but i actually think it's the worst of the options. it will basically never switch into anything, so you basically need bp to get it in. bulk up worth exploring, but recover 3atk is probably its most "reliable" set.

:rs/kingdra:


:rs/weezing:

really strong mon, but neutered by 4mss harder than maybe anything else (wisp is the only must-have, but you definitely need a good reason not to run boom). singlehandedly salvages a lot of mixed offenses. difficult to ev precisely.

:rs/smeargle:

sleep + spikes good, who knew. lots of fun (annoying) options in the free slots. i don't tend to gravitate towards teams that it appears on, but they're definitely viable.


C

:rs/snorlax:

laughably mediocre. it was briefly fine again when curseboom was a surprise to see instead of expected. using it as a second houdini is probably the only way to salvage it. it's a necessity on certain brands of offense, where i wouldn't say it excels, but performs up to middling expectations. best paired with bliss.

:rs/raikou:

lead lum ice tox is probably the best set. one of a very select few mons that actually warrants being paired with p2. sub cm absolutely annihilates opposing special offense.


:rs/steelix:

aero's worst nightmare. has exacerbated flygon syndrome in the sense that it needs even more support, but is literally impenetrable on the physical end. basically lives exclusively on fat balance. kind of let down by its movepool.

:rs/lanturn:

good on spikes offense for a lot of the same reasons that celebi/jolt are. have to play extremely up-tempo to make it even remotely worth it over its peers.

:rs/machamp:

shane.

:rs/venusaur:

speed is everything, so paralyzing it kills it. SD sludge bomb sets (+mag, of course) are interesting and have the niche of actually being able to make progress vs celebi teams.

:rs/donphan:

not the biggest phan of this, but fits really beautifully on a few skarmmag. another one of those flygon/steelix-esque mons. always run some spdef so that it can afford to switch into unrevealed tar. toxic's the best, but counter's strong too.

:rs/glalie:

HP fighting and sing are stuff to consider. can be ev'd to live ada bandmence brick break.

:rs/registeel:

Falls in line with lix and phan as an aero killer. seismic/twave/protect/counter is the set that i've seen be the most successful, but boom is boom.

:rs/jynx:

beam turn 1 into unfavorable lead matchups is the more risk-averse play, but if you're using jynx, you aren't risk averse anyway.

:rs/regice:



the good: 248 Atk Choice Band Regice Superpower vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 404-476 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

the bad: 248 Atk Choice Band Regice Superpower vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Metagross: 81-96 (22.2 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

the ugly: 252 SpA Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Regice: 82-97 (22.5 - 26.6%) -- 23.6% chance to 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and sandstorm damage

the uglier: people know that this is the only viable regice set now.

:rs/umbreon:

hardest gar counter in the game has to count for something. fits on very few teams. gimmicks have seen a non-zero amount of success, but they're still gimmicks. terrible at switching into things; wish can mitigate the damage until spikes go up, at which point it's doomed.

C-

:rs/politoed:

sleep + watermove + knock off (kinda) are all good. fringe viability because of how hard its stats let it down.

:rs/gardevoir:

surprisingly great utility moveset. like a weird hybrid of p2 and zam.

:rs/mantine:

walls too many good mons for it to not be usable. mixmence, meta, molt, zard and loom all live in agony. rest talk worth considering (surf/tox/rest all vital).

:rs/armaldo:

interesting typing. knock + spin is a really neat move combination; gengar is too scared to ever be sure that i can switch in. SD works, but there are mons who do that better.

:rs/blaziken:

worst fighter, by far. seems like an offensive god until you run into a bulky water. built defensively like a paper bag. wins vs every lead not named cune or mence, though.


something to consider:

252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken Focus Punch vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 249-294 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken Sky Uppercut vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 142-168 (35.4 - 41.8%) -- 84.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 319-376 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken Sky Uppercut vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Blaziken Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 205-242 (61.9 - 73.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

:rs/marowak:

ranking this mon only to talk about how terrible it is. haven't seen a team with the 4atk set where i haven't thought "bkctar would be better here". its best use is unironically as a recipient of statpass.

:rs/porygon2:

low, if any, incentive to ever use this. extremely annoying to face on the few teams it fits on. terrorizes mence like nothing else. perishes to spikes/tar/meta. toxic is usually better than twave; cover meta elsewhere.

:rs/regirock:

like its icy bretheren, cb may be the best set. functions more like a second metagross than tyranitar, despite the typing.

:rs/jumpluff:

destroyer of worlds when it gets going. unfortunately, this isn't very often (thanks, celebi).sleep/leech/sub/encore's the only set worth running. absolutely NEEDS spikes up. if there was ever a mon to pair dusclops with...


:rs/ludicolo:

this mon seemed a lot cooler when i didn't know that cbmash 2hkos it. too weak to be worth using as a rain dance mon, focus on leech sets instead (pair with own metagross/jirachi).

:rs/omastar:


when i first started i made a crappy cmpass team with this as the endgame receiver. i think i'm still chasing the high of +4 hydro ohkoing defensive cune in rain. never switch it in, and pair with kingdra to make it even a little bit worth the slot. offensive spiking is really neat in adv.

:rs/camerupt:

fire move/toxic/eq/boom is what i've found "success" with. can maybe slot in overheat or hp ice. don't even bother trying to outspeed things.

:rs/slaking:

basically a boom, but every other turn. the culmination of the "mag+pursuit can make anything viable" ideology. pair with camerupt to circumvent gar?

:rs/ninjask:

ninjask users are the only people on the planet who are allowed to call dug bad. haven't used enough to determine whether or not an attacking move is worth it.

:rs/dusclops:

maybe if we don't acknowledge that it exists, it will go away.

Worth Exploring:
These are mons that I haven't used enough to give input on, but that I feel may have potential.

:rs/exeggutor:

:rs/solrock:

:rs/lunatone:

:rs/golduck:

:rs/wailord:

:rs/miltank:

:rs/articuno:


Just Suck:
I've seen these used way too much for how bad they are.

:rs/alakazam:

:rs/rhydon:

:rs/dragonite:

:rs/houndoom:


TL;DR

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