Gen 3 [ADV Ubers] victreebel booms

I wanted to build with Victreebel, and my initial thought was a standard core with an extra steel to target don/ogre/hooh via spikes+mash and via having a 'free' explosion. Steels, the other common problem Victreebel struggles with, are fended off with fire moves on everything and then bypassed lategame with hpfire Victreebel. I wanted extra resilience vs Latios, so I chose Blissey as its check over Snorlax; since Victreebel pushes past Latios lategame my gameplan before then is to force it out reliably rather than try to make progress on it. Thus, the first pass was Groudon / Latios / Blissey / Metagross / Forretress / Victreebel.

I went through a number of versions of the team after this; I noticed trouble vs firelax and hooh, so I swapped Forretress for Regirock; I found I had trouble vs subcm stuff so I put Registeel over Metagross, which via being another Latios check let me drop Blissey for another boom in Snorlax.

The final (or at least current) version of the team is
:rs/groudon: :rs/latios: :rs/snorlax: :rs/regirock: :rs/registeel: :rs/victreebel:


Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 120 SpD / 80 Spe
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Overheat

Groudon of course brings Victreebel's sun. Rather than trying to keep sun up as aggressively as possible, I usually conserve Groudon earlygame while I try to get a boom off on opposing Kyogre. Besides Drought, Groudon checks Ray and Ho-Oh, opposing Groudon, opposing Snorlax, and DeoA. A defensive spread lets it take these threats on as effectively as possible, with enough speed to reliably outspeed opposing Groudon (and possibly finish off Kyogre). Since its function on this team is primarily defensive, HPGhost isn't really necessary - it forces out what it wants to force out better with slide. Ho-Oh may stay in and fish for a burn, but even if it outspeeds and does burn getting a slide off vs hooh will usually advance your gameplan significantly.
Bulk Up is to match up better defensively vs don and lax. Slide is important to properly hit Ho-Oh in particular and Ray. Overheat is essential to prevent spikes from Forretress, as well as eliminate Metagross and Forretress before they can blow you up. I forget what the EVs do.


Latios @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover

Latios checks Groudon and Kyogre. HPFire eliminates Metagross in Sun and Forretress, preventing Spikes, removing boom resists, and forcing in Snorlax to allow Regirock or Registeel entry. Timid is for Mew and Slaking in part, but also to beat opposing Latios if a boom hits Snorlax and the opponent is forced to try to check your Latios with theirs; it also lets you check Metagross more effectively. Speed for max base 100s, full SpA, rest in HP. Since hitting Kyogre with an Explosion is a significant strategic goal for this team, Latios is cushioned by the opponent's attempts to play around this goal.


Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Fire Blast
- Curse
- Self-Destruct
- Body Slam

Boomspam would not be complete without Snorlax. Lax is the primary Latios / generic special attacker switchin as well as another boom. It's important earlygame to get turns right with lax, as the team is pretty spikes weak, especially vs stall; thus, failing to Fire Blast a forre switchin will put you behind. The primary targets of the selfdestruct are Groudon, Kyogre, and Ho-Oh. Body Slam's paralysis can help significantly targeting these as they allow you to blow up before the target can finish you off or Substitute. Hitting Metagross or Forretress is not desirable, even if you can eliminate them thereby; conversely, hitting Latios usually frees up Registeel to itself Explode, as well as letting Groudon threaten more effectively. Blowing up early may also leave you in trouble vs Latios, but Registeel is your backup check and is usually sufficient to stave it off until you can chip or remove everything necessary. Curse makes Snorlax harder to check and therefore forces in what you want in more reliably; it can also boost Lax' Defense enough to Fire Blast Metagross. Versus Gengar, it may be necessary to stay in and Fire Blast it. EVs are just all thrown into bulk.


Regirock @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 12 SpA / 148 SpD
Brave Nature
- Curse
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
- Fire Punch

Regirock is another Explosion, a Normal and Flying resist that also resists Fire, and more specifically a Snorlax check. Regirock unfortunately cannot do significant harm to Metagross, besides Fire Punch on the switch, and even in sun Fire Punch only 2hkos Forretress, so you need to hit it on the switch to deny Spikes. Curse boosts you versus Snorlax and powers up your Explosion, but slows Regirock down to below Forretress' speed. Again, the prime target for the explosion is Kyogre or Groudon. Regirock lives any attack from Groudon as well as Kyogre's Ice Beam, so it can Explode vs the former semi-reliably and can force the latter to Surf into Latios. Regirock may be necessary to keep around until lategame depending on the construction of the opponent's team, as it is part of the backbone against a lategame Ray or Ho-Oh. 12 SpA guarantees the 2hko on Forry, the SpD evs do something vs M2 iirc, rest in Attack.


Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 4 SpA / 208 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Toxic
- Explosion
- Psych Up

Another Fire attack, who would have guessed? Registeel is the backup check to Latios, Mewtwo, and Snorlax, as well as the team's third Explosion. Hidden Power Fire hits Steels, limiting Forretress to one layer, or none if hit on the switch, and letting Registeel pretend to check Metagross. Toxic hits Groudon and Kyogre less riskily than Explosion, and acquires chip on them to complete the job with Explosion later. Psych Up copies Curse boosts from Snorlax and Calm Mind boosts from Mewtwo, allowing it to Explode vs the former and break the latter's subs in two hits with HPFire in sun, either beating it or getting a chance to Explode on it as it subs to revenge with Victreebel. Explosion should hit Groudon, Kyogre, or Ho-Oh if possible. EVs boost Explosion's power a bit and are then dumped in SpD.


Victreebel @ Poison Barb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 Def / 16 SpA / 220 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Victreebel is the core team member, and the rest of the team is designed primarily to extend the battle just long enough to remove everything that would prevent Victreebel from winning. Nevertheless, Victreebel does some important thing for the team besides just being a wincondition. Victreebel is a backup check to nearly everything; it can kill most things with enough chip and sleep anything it can't kill - once. Victreebel is often best used as a surprise, but using it midgame can be a significant benefit as well, as there is little that checks Vict that doesn't take significant damage from it, as well as risking Sludge Bomb's 30% poison chance, at the risk of revealing your gameplan. I find that against stall it's sometimes beneficial to bring in Victreebel earlier, in part because of its immunity to Toxic and therefore its ability to switch into or even hardwall certain stall staples. Of course Sleep Powder is a one-time use only, but threatening it can allow a click that can benefit you significantly. If possible, try to conserve sleep until you can target whatever mon on the opposing team is most threatening to your ability to sweep; however if you can sleep Blissey you should. Full attack, Speed beats subsalac don/ogre in sun, Def lives a CB DeoA espeed, rest in SpA for extra HPFire damage. Item isn't too important, Wide Lens would be ideal but doesn't exist in ADV, so a bit of extra Sludge Bomb damage is cool.
To win with Victreebel, Kyogre and Ray must be gone; Groudon must be heavily chipped; and Metagross, Ho-Oh, Latias, Snorlax, and Mewtwo must be chipped. Lugia walls you but can't do anything other than phase you, and if you need to you can keep coming in on it until it's out of Whirlwinds; you have lots of Swords Dance pp.



As a team that uses no fewer than three shitmons, it would not be entirely honest to say this team is good. Still, boom-based gameplans tend to be pretty effective, if you can target the booms well. In general, this team is very difficult to use, which may be why I like it so much. Your Explosions and Self-Destruct need to mostly hit the right targets, but beyond that you need to pressure whatever Steel the opponent has to keep it off the field, figure out the opponent's team enough to force in and eliminate stuff that stands in your way, and click the right buttons with Victreebel to finish the game. Of course, the real test of skill is hitting Sleep Powder; if you can't do that reliably you aren't skilful enough for this team. In any case, this team is lots of fun to use; there's nothing better than hitting a good explosion and having to wait 30 seconds for the opponent's next turn for them to reevaluate the game.

This team struggles versus certain foes to a greater extent than most teams; it would not be a stretch to call it a matchup fish. Rayquaza is a significant problem, revenging Victreebel as reliably as Kyogre but also potentially coming out much later in the game. Teams with multiple of Vict's harder checks, such as ogre+don teams, are also significant problems. Despite the fire moves on every mon, Forretress and Metagross are problems as well, with Forretress' Spikes chipping the team and breaking Vict's ability to live a DeoA Espeed, and with despite having multiple switchins for every move of Metagross the team having no mon that can switch in to every move. Forry rain is a particular pain, but rain stall is bad anyways.

This team is more fun to use than it is actually good; a more standard structure will serve you better mostly. I really like it, however.
 
Cool team! Based on team structure, I believe the aim is to use Snorlax, Regirock, and Registeel to remove counters to Victreebel. Given how difficult it is to 1HKO them, you should have no trouble removing Steel types that threaten your Groudon and Victreebel. The addition of Overheat Groudon and HP Fire Latios is also a great way to lure opposing Steel types.

I have couple suggestions. First, consider Solar Beam over HP Fire on Victreebel. You have 5 members on your team to pressure and/or lure opposing Steel Types. In my opinion, HP Fire Victreebel is redundant. It will unlikely come out until appropriate threats have been removed. Having Solar Beam will assist your efforts to break opposing Groudon. Of course, your team is equally well equipped to lure and remove Groudon, so HP Fire on Victreebel is not a bad option either.

Second, consider Spikes to better pressure Kyogre. Kyogre is the greatest threat to your team, yet your team is unable to pressure Kyogre effectively. If your opponent has alternative switch-in to Regirock and Registeel outside of Kyogre, you will face a difficult game. That is especially true should the opposing Kyogre knows Thunder-Wave. Once Latios is paralyzed, it is at the mercy of 2HKO from opposing Kyogre's Ice Beam. Spikes can at least negate leftovers recovery from Kyogre. The only option would be to replace Registeel with either Forretress (specially defensive recommended) or Deoxys-Defense. The latter may result in loss of momentum due to how easily the top threats set-up versus Deoxys-Defense.

A well played Rayquaza with Earthquake may be an issue, but you have ways to pivot around it. Opposing Deoxys-Defense will also give you trouble due to its lack of Fire weakness.

Good luck, and hope this is helpful!
 
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Magneton over Registeel might be worth exploring. You lose out on the defensive utility but Regirock helps compensate. What you lose in the Registeel boom, you gain in the targeted trapping. This could be valuable since it frees up a moveslot on all your other mons from having to be dedicated to a fire move. Victreebel could run Solar Beam to be stronger vs Sun teams. Latios could rock Refresh so that you have an easier time vs twave Kyogre. Gdon could dedicate itself to a SD set or a BU Rest variant depending on which mus you want to prioritize. Regirock could consider Rest/Earthquake/Focus Punch/Twave/Toxic for any of the things those moves are helpful for. Snorlax would get to rock Shadow Ball to bait and break the Ghost-types that also happen to bother Victreebel, allowing it to chip for your main wincon and/or better direct your boom on a key threat thanks to Magneton eating the Steel-types for it. Unfortunately, Magneton doesn't really do a whole lot to help with removing Kyogre for your Victreebel to run wild but the general QoL upgrades to your team movesets might make your Rain mus more tolerable.
 
Magneton over Registeel might be worth exploring. You lose out on the defensive utility but Regirock helps compensate. What you lose in the Registeel boom, you gain in the targeted trapping. This could be valuable since it frees up a moveslot on all your other mons from having to be dedicated to a fire move. Victreebel could run Solar Beam to be stronger vs Sun teams. Latios could rock Refresh so that you have an easier time vs twave Kyogre. Gdon could dedicate itself to a SD set or a BU Rest variant depending on which mus you want to prioritize. Regirock could consider Rest/Earthquake/Focus Punch/Twave/Toxic for any of the things those moves are helpful for. Snorlax would get to rock Shadow Ball to bait and break the Ghost-types that also happen to bother Victreebel, allowing it to chip for your main wincon and/or better direct your boom on a key threat thanks to Magneton eating the Steel-types for it. Unfortunately, Magneton doesn't really do a whole lot to help with removing Kyogre for your Victreebel to run wild but the general QoL upgrades to your team movesets might make your Rain mus more tolerable.
Good point, MM2! Replacing fire moves for a different coverage moves will improve match-up against other threats. Here is the set I would recommend for your magneton:

Magneton @ Petaya Berry
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute
- Metal Sound / Toxic / Thunder Wave

I believe Petaya Berry Magneton has the greatest chance of removing opposing Metagross from the game. That will open up your Regirock for a trade, which will likely be opposing Kyogre or Groudon. If you fear Forretress predicting Magneton, you may keeping Fire Blast on Snorlax as a lure. I have chosen Timid Nature to have best chance of leaving massive damage on Kyogre.

One issue that will come with replacing Registeel for Magneton is a lack of Heracross Counter. Every time opposing Heracross comes in versus Latios or Snorlax, you will need a fodder. If the team requires Latios or Snorlax in the game, then you will be unable to chip Heracross for future revenge KO. When giving up Latios to chip opposing Heracross, you will be forced to send Victreebel (assuming sun is up) for a revenge KO, thus revealing your main sweeper.
 
thanks for looking at the team :)

re magneton, i don't happen to like the mon very much, but it's an interesting thought here. to my mind, the more booms a team has the better each additional boom is, so every boom is very important. moreover, the redundancy in laxcheck and laticheck is a significant strategic element to this team, because any of the three booms can go off without compromising the defensive integrity of the team enough to force me to head straight for the endgame.
i think magneton would be a very significant boon to this team, however. the team is very steel-weak despite all the fire coverage, booms can go off much more effectively without steels threatening to absorb them, and it frees up coverage on basically everything. if i wanted to keep the idea of redundancy intact, i could treat groudon as my backup laxcheck and perhaps run a specially defensive latias as a backup laticheck, with don helping vs opposing don. i will try this version of the team out and see how it feels, but a boomspam with only 2 booms feels very demanding to me.

re solarbeam vict, the idea of this team was originally more-or-less to defer steels via fire coverage until lategame then bypass them with firevict. that is, i expect steels to scout fire and hide in the back until endgame. solarbeam on vict changes the way i see the game going, probably meaning that i will hide fire coverage on something and hope to surprise lategame. solarbeam is cool because this team is weak to teams with two of ogre/don/hooh, which will always have a don, so it helps vs weaker matchups. still, bypassing don but not ogre or hooh makes booms much harder to target because don might be the one switching into my boom mons. fire beats every steel but solarbeam only beats one weathermon, so fire is my preferred move here.

re spikes, spikes would be a boon here as well. spikes are partially redundant with booms, as spikes chip doesn't matter too much if regirock hits ogre with an explosion. i would much prefer forre here to deod, as spin and another boom are great for this team. forre is sorta a lati check and remains a hera switchin. there's maybe some counter set to mess up hpfire gross and potentially remove ray possible as well. i like the forre idea.

one last consideration is a more physdef lax spread, and try to convince gross and forre to click boom. this might be boom/slam/curse/fire, i suppose. tect is possible but would let you get walled by gengar, which might be fine alongside perhaps a spA-invested suitgross. fire might also convince forry or gross to switch out, so possible sball usecase as well. you sorta end up with no hera switchin in this composition however.


sixes i'm looking at are
bulkdon / timid latios or latias / boom lax / regirock / magneton / victreebel
bulkdon / fire latios / boom fire lax / regirock / forretress / victreebel
bulkdon / fire latios / physdef curseboomlax / regirock / spA metagross / victreebel
thoughts?
 
thanks for looking at the team :)

re magneton, i don't happen to like the mon very much, but it's an interesting thought here. to my mind, the more booms a team has the better each additional boom is, so every boom is very important.
This is true for pokemon that have booms strong enough to trade with resists (snorlax, metagross, mew) or are good at directing their booms towards non-resists (mewtwo, metagross, mew, cloyster).

Registeel can’t even ohko 252 HP Kyogre with its boom and hp fire needs sun to 3hko metagross (who outspeeds and KOs you first). Regirock isn’t much better at forcing a boom trade, neither.

Magneton is much more reliable at forcing at a 1 for 1 with their steel in a quick and controlled manner. Beyond the value of this in itself as well as the moveset liberty for the team, this should also make it easier for your regirock and snorlax to direct their booms where you want them to go.

moreover, the redundancy in laxcheck and laticheck is a significant strategic element to this team, because any of the three booms can go off without compromising the defensive integrity of the team enough to force me to head straight for the endgame.
This is true to a degree. On the flip side, a successful Magneton trap is equivalent value to a Registeel boom trade (which takes a lot of work to make happen). Regirock and Snorlax should be enough defensive utility on their own to avoid a direct endgame scenario until you are ready to boom one of them on your own terms. It does mean that you can’t boom Snorlax or Regirock early and rely on the other + Registeel to continue checking threats. However, this Registeel isn’t very good at checking anything besides boom trading with them so I’d argue that you aren’t missing out on much, anyways.


i will try this version of the team out and see how it feels, but a boomspam with only 2 booms feels very demanding to me.
Yeah, that’s best; all my input is just speculation since I haven’t ever played with the team.

You don’t need to be BuDon with Magneton. You have Curse Regirock already as well as your own Snorlax boom if needed. Standard SD Groundon variants will be plenty as a backup check. Spdef SD can run slide, twave, or protect with hp ghost since you have a Magneton to hit Skarm. Sub Salac can be a potential wincon with the Skarm trap, but it makes your Rayquaza mu very annoying. Typically offensive SD Twave is also viable since it’s pretty good at forcing damage in every mu (notably against Lugia). Lots of flexibility in this slot to test and see what feels best.
 

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