Gen 3 ADV Viability Ranking (OU)

Flygon EQ / Fire blast / Rock slide / Hp bug is pretty good with spikes, i use it quite a bit with swampert because the "electric with hidden power ice/grass" like raikou or zapdos are easily covered, and it's good to have a back-up check to CBAero / DDttar because Swampert needs to tank way too much shit to stay alive.

Sadly P2 / bold cune / Gengar / Swampert are really good check and they are pretty common so it's hard to pull through, but with spikes in lategame he is pretty darn good imo.

CBgon is fun to "revenge kill" a weaken offensive cune and to be pretty scary against offense, and he is quite good with restalk magneton for skarmory / fire punch-less gengar
 
Flygon EQ / Fire blast / Rock slide / Hp bug is pretty good with spikes, i use it quite a bit with swampert because the "electric with hidden power ice/grass" like raikou or zapdos are easily covered, and it's good to have a back-up check to CBAero / DDttar because Swampert needs to tank way too much shit to stay alive.

Sadly P2 / bold cune / Gengar / Swampert are really good check and they are pretty common so it's hard to pull through, but with spikes in lategame he is pretty darn good imo.

CBgon is fun to "revenge kill" a weaken offensive cune and to be pretty scary against offense, and he is quite good with restalk magneton for skarmory / fire punch-less gengar
I gotta say I prefer Toxic on my Flygons in general to HP Bug, as it's great vs P2 (unless you have a Natural Cure mon which it can Trace off easily), non-resting Pert, and Milo. You lose out on just Celebi (unless I forgot something), but Cele doesn't match up well vs the kind of teams which have Flygon, i.e. TSS, anyway.
 
Yeah toxic / hp ghost (you still hit claydol and celebi, and now you can scare gengar a bit) is cool but the mixed set is really dedicated to hit everything so i don't like missing out on coverage, as celebi is more used than milotic / p2, and toxic is a based a lot on prediction since you can't stay and tank an ice beam to toxic them.
 
I think it depends on the set, faster late game cleaner type builds prefer hp bug, bulkier builds prefer toxic. You can also use substitute to ease prediction, flygon sets up subs on a lot of pokemon, and restores the health pretty easily. Only problem is the 4mss.
 
Sub toxic flygon is actually pretty good if you aren't worried about skarm. The lack of recovery isn't really an issue thanks to how easy it is for flygon to regain health via lefties. Skarm is the only thing that can switch in easy, gar gets worn down by rock slides, cune is forced to rest and celebi gets forced out by toxic and can't do much to flygon behind a sub, most of its other counters also hate toxic. which coupled with stab eq wears things down fast. You have to have a way to deal with skarm though, otherwise it's useless if they have one.
 

Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Sub toxic flygon is actually pretty good if you aren't worried about skarm. The lack of recovery isn't really an issue thanks to how easy it is for flygon to regain health via lefties. Skarm is the only thing that can switch in easy, gar gets worn down by rock slides, cune is forced to rest and celebi gets forced out by toxic and can't do much to flygon behind a sub, most of its other counters also hate toxic. which coupled with stab eq wears things down fast. You have to have a way to deal with skarm though, otherwise it's useless if they have one.
Magneton lol.

But yeah, Flygon is another one of those cool mons, I actually used the CB set in one of my RMTs (yes its an edited version and I'm too lazy to update the thread), for that revenge killing power against pretty much anything actually: thanks to its typing and okay bulk you can even revenge CBMence. (Its 2 am in the morning, just musing, may not work in practice). SubTox also seems like a nice set to try out on a slower paced team, as this thing would work great in TSS Stall: Impervious to Sand and Spikes, and can block Toxic with Sub, while threatening whatever's firing the Toxic. Meanwhile the QuakeSlide coverage keeps a lot of stuff in check and the stuff that has the bulk/typing to take it runs from Toxic (I mentioned earlier my main gripe with Skarmory: Super easy for Magneton to switch in and beat it. Pair Magneton with Flygon, make it ResTalk ((Nice set that Earthworm came up with I think to check Gengar, while serving as a psuedo Special Tank)), slap on Tyranitar and a few other compulsory TSS mons like Tar, Pert and Forry, and you have the beginnings of an unorthodox TSS.)
 

Typhlito

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A poke I would like ranked is acually venusaur, The thing is imo severely underated, and could easily rank up there with cacturne, breloom and sceptile.

Decent speed, good bulk, has sleep powder over sceptile, better speed than cac, and loom, and a poison typing to eat up all the hidden power bug users.

C-rank would suffice.
I agree with this. Its actually a viable pokemon to use over celebi depending on the team. Sure sand messes up its main form of recovery but the threat of sleep keeps its threats from freely switching in whenever. It could use the threat of sleep to spam its leech seed and even rack up spikes damage. Sleep is amazing in this metagame and there arent many pokemon that can reliably use the status. Many pokemon prepare for celebi with hp bug which doesnt hit venusaur super effectively. That poison typing keeps it safe from toxic blissey and can potentially go toe to toe with her since leech seed recovers a ton of its hp. Not to say that its anywhere near as good as celebi but its certainly good enough to be ranked. I do think its better than sceptile, cacturne, and breloom though.
 
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Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Yeah, my point was to say that Suicune's not the kind of defensive mon that runs Toxic, because it needs other moves like Rest, Roar etc. for reasons I stated earlier. Swampert on the other hand is a defensive mon who can run Toxic cause he doesn't have a lot of things he needs in his movepool: EQ to threaten DDTar and Ice Beam to threaten Mence, thats it. The remaining two slots he can run Surf/Hydro Pump for a powerful STAB, Protect to scout and help rack up Toxic damage, while recovering, Roar to Phaze, Toxic, ResTalk for recovery, and even Curse to pose a decent Offensive threat. Offensive Cune can run Toxic yeah, but it's mostly a filler move and honestly Offense wise I prefer SubCMCune, which has no room for Toxic.
 

Jirachee

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where is Lunatone >:(

seriously though Lunatone should probably be ranked in C over Sableye. it's a pretty niche poke but it can switch into EQ users and Mence, set up CMs and Baton Pass them to the appropriate recipient. I'm aware Celebi does that too but Lunatone has an interesting set of resists which makes it worth using. Also, using both on the same team with things like Gengar or Zapdos that appreciate CM boosts can make for a nice strategy :O
 

Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Yeah I don't get the Heracross ranking. I don't really use it mainly cause I don't know what works with it: All I know about its use is it wrecks every bulky water and can send even Skarm, running for the hills. Still, that base speed (85 I think), is low, meaning it can get revenged by anything with HP Flying (Mence can shut it down as well with Intimidate), and Gengar with Fire Punch can switch in on a Focus Punch and counter it then and there. Is it really A?
 
most skarmory doesn't even have an offensive move nowadays, you can focus punch freely.

And yeah you can revenge kill it, but it's the only fighting type of the metagame, and it's a great way to put pressure, 85 speed is not that slow, you can set-up on blissey / Porygon 2 / slow celebi / snorlax on curse / you can put a lot of pressure on crocune too with CB megahorn etc. The only problem is the weakness to dugtrio, but it's really good.
 

Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Yeah....I just found out about the subsweeper thing, that's darn OP. Subs are nice on it cause they can activate a Salac Berry and remove the weakness to Dug: Whats it gonna do if it switches in on a Hera with Subs up? Not kill it, that's for sure! Yeah A rank is good for it
 

Typhlito

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While its a very situational set, if sand isnt up, hera can do a ton of damage with its endure reversal + salac set. Its just almost impossible to switch into a max power stab reversal so something is almost guaranteed to go down. Weezing and gengar (mence too with intimidate) are pretty much the only pokemons that can effectively tank any of heracross's (usual) moves. Even then though, its sd set does a decent job at beating weezing if it gets status'd and gengar has to watch out for the occasional hp ghost. The only reason this set isnt used as much as it should be is because ttar is way too common for it to be reliable. Still think its good where it is though.
 
While its a very situational set, if sand isnt up, hera can do a ton of damage with its endure reversal + salac set. Its just almost impossible to switch into a max power stab reversal so something is almost guaranteed to go down. Weezing and gengar (mence too with intimidate) are pretty much the only pokemons that can effectively tank any of heracross's (usual) moves. Even then though, its sd set does a decent job at beating weezing if it gets status'd and gengar has to watch out for the occasional hp ghost. The only reason this set isnt used as much as it should be is because ttar is way too common for it to be reliable. Still think its good where it is though.
super secret strategy, put a weather move on something to use to clear the skies once you've killed ttar. i stick sunny day on my mag as a filler for when im playing any form of salac hera
 
Yea ive done that several times in bw. My favorite is rain dance + surf latias. Used it vs pdc in a smogon tour game last season (tho i lost cuz he had kingdra).

Hows manual sun/rain in ou btw? Fun gimmick at best?
 

Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Yea ive done that several times in bw. My favorite is rain dance + surf latias. Used it vs pdc in a smogon tour game last season (tho i lost cuz he had kingdra).

Hows manual sun/rain in ou btw? Fun gimmick at best?
Yeah, Heracross is pretty strong even with sand up: Then you can just suicide run with it. Facade can do a ton to Weezing while if you have a sub up it gives you an extra turn to beat Gengar and Megahorn does a ton to even fully defensive variants (

Even though it's not related, in BW manual sun is a gimmick, manual rain does have some significance due to the fact you can run Swift Swimmers which is pretty cool: Interesting thing to note is manual Rain has an advantage against Drizzle Rain: Speed. The power of stuff like Kingdra and Kabutops under rain is pretty huge (they're B+ in XY)
 
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Jirachee

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Yeah manual sun is a gimmick, manual rain does have some significance due to the fact you can run Swift Swimmers which is pretty cool: Interesting thing to note is manual Rain has an advantage against Drizzle Rain: Speed. The power of stuff like Kingdra and Kabutops under rain is pretty huge (they're B+ in XY)
Actually, Sun is a lot more viable than Rain teams. Rain abusers are a lot less threatening than Sun abusers. Rain has Kingdra, Ludicolo, and stuff like Omastar and Gorebyss, which all do the same thing really, which is being a fast + powerful Water sweeper. It really lacks versatility and without boosting items they're really not threatening enough to make it worth using. Kabutops is absolutely not a Rain abuser, because it doesn't use the boosted STAB (since it's Special) and only gets the boosted Speed... Their viability in XY is irrelevant to their ADV viability. On the other hand, Sun has a great variety of abusers, the best being Exeggutor and Charizard. Exeggutor's Solarbeam is p strong and it makes up for being kind Tyranitar bait with Sleep Powder which is something it doesn't want to switch in. Charizard in Sun absolutely murders everything and nothing really like to switch into it. On top of that, a lot of the things that stop Sun abusers (Blissey, Tyranitar) are trapped by Dugtrio which makes it a great partner to those PkMn. Sun itself isn't that great because it's not consistent but it's at least a lot more viable than Rain.
 

Lord Ninjax

Tournament Banned
Actually, Sun is a lot more viable than Rain teams. Rain abusers are a lot less threatening than Sun abusers. Rain has Kingdra, Ludicolo, and stuff like Omastar and Gorebyss, which all do the same thing really, which is being a fast + powerful Water sweeper. It really lacks versatility and without boosting items they're really not threatening enough to make it worth using. Kabutops is absolutely not a Rain abuser, because it doesn't use the boosted STAB (since it's Special) and only gets the boosted Speed... Their viability in XY is irrelevant to their ADV viability. On the other hand, Sun has a great variety of abusers, the best being Exeggutor and Charizard. Exeggutor's Solarbeam is p strong and it makes up for being kind Tyranitar bait with Sleep Powder which is something it doesn't want to switch in. Charizard in Sun absolutely murders everything and nothing really like to switch into it. On top of that, a lot of the things that stop Sun abusers (Blissey, Tyranitar) are trapped by Dugtrio which makes it a great partner to those PkMn. Sun itself isn't that great because it's not consistent but it's at least a lot more viable than Rain.
Sorry, sorry, from the context of MoxieInfinite's post I though he was talking about BW (manual rain/sun is a gimmick in ADV period, rain got some significance in DPP though)(I was heading to school at the time....in a hurry, which is why I didn't mention BW in my post (though I think I mentioned Drizzle Rain)). Really sorry for the confusion.
 
super secret strategy, put a weather move on something to use to clear the skies once you've killed ttar. i stick sunny day on my mag as a filler for when im playing any form of salac hera
Why specifically Magneton? Isn't Magneton one of the less reliable setters thanks to its tendency to get Dug?

edit:

but it's the only fighting type of the metagame
Noob question here, but why is it the only fighting type of the meta? Is it that Hera gets Megahorn for Psychic types?
 
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