OU ADV OU Viability Ranking

Triangles

Big Stew
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
When running skarm with dugtrio i don't think leading skarm is the best idea. Skarm + dug is amazing synergy since you can get rid of the mag before they're able to remove skarm, with the right prediction. If you lead skarm then all of that goes out the window because you have no information to determine if the opposing team even has a mag so you're forced to trade skarm for mag if they have one. This isn't the worst trade ever but if I can set the game up so I can get rid of mag before skarm is gone, that's far more beneficial.
Completely disagree about this, skarm is a fine lead if you have dug in the back. If you're holding skarm back then there's no way the guy is gonna show his mag since it switches into nothing, and you can't always successfully identify a mag team from a non mag one just from other mons shown, expecially in the era where double/triple electric shit with mag is more common.
On the flipside, if you lead skarm, you can WW to scout for Mag if you have a good lead MU. Once he's shown that you can pull all kinds of tricks and if you manage to keep Skarm healthy while trapping a shown mag, its an autowin vs most Mag setups and a very strong powerplay vs the rest of them.
 
You can't *always* successfully identify mag, but any information you get about the opposing team can make that guess more informed. Even in triple electric they'll probably be running something like say toxic metagross that really appreciates mag support and you can have a bit more information about whether or not they may have a mag. Pokemon is a game of educated guesses and in a play as game swinging as doubling dug in to mag I like to have as much information as I can get. Let's say you're leading skarm vs mence and have a dug in the back. You can WW and risk getting roasted by a mixmence fireblast, you can toxic as the cb mence in front of you gets replaced by a magneton and you're royally fucked (generally the bad play), you can spike (the midground) and either way you're in a meh spot which is a waste if it's the mag situation because the dug in the back could have kept your skarm alive indefinitely, or you can switch, in which case you would have been better off not leading skarm. Leading skarm gives you one single piece of information about the presence of mag before you're forced to decide on an often game breaking play. Having it in the back allows you the chance to make a more educated guess and make the most of the dugtrio double. To clarify im not saying skarm is a bad lead but when running it alongside dug if I have another lead option I'll generally take it.
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the 5th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Championis a defending SPL Championis a Past SPL Champion
Big Chungus Winner
I dont think we should have a Lead ranking because it doesn't impact/influence the game as often/much as it does in DPP. Ofc there will be some teams, sometimes unconventionnal, that will run specific leads, such as Baton Pass with Ninjask or some offenses with Smeargle, but yeah, not worth it imo.

Onto another subject... I did say recently that I wanted the old gen viability rankings to be updated after SPL, and what better place to start than with my own thread. Something I thought about doing this time around is the following:

I want every "relevant" ADV players to PM me their own ranking. I will then make an average of everyone's ranking to reach the final result (similary to the SPL pre-season power rankings). I plan to disclose the full results and show who voted what exactly (unless they don't want to be revealed). I will also probably discount every pokemon's highest and lowest individual ranking to avoid outliers.

For the time being, here is what Im gonna do. I will highlight ADV players from SPL:
undisputed UD Kevin Garrett Jirachee Astamatitos Triangles thelinearcurve Ojama danilo Smurf. BKC k3nan CALLOUS M Dragon
I want you guys to give this post a quick read, and if you care about this thing, to send me YOUR own viability ranking by PM. Please also mention if you'd like your ranking to be associated with your name or not. Also, if you know anyone you'd consider as qualified enough to send their take on the matter, let them know and tell them to PM me with their ranking too.

The only thing I'll do is probably decide myself whose vote gets to be taken into account for the averaged result at the end. Feel free to ask me in PM if you'd make the cut so you dont waste time sending a ranking for no reason.

In the meantime, feel free to influence everyone's vote by pushing for or against various Pokemons.
 

Fear

GSC Monarch
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
This is how I'd personally rank ADV pokemon viability right now. I already PM'ed McM my list without explanations and after his own reccomendation I decided I would also make a public post to start the viability ranking posts rolling, thus put some work onto explaining my reasoning behind my personal ranking of S, A and B tier mons, keeping it as simple as I could. Pokemon on C and D are harder for me to put a reason with because of much less play. The order of each pokemon within each tier is from better to worse.


S-Rank

Tyranitar

Tyranitar is the undisputed king of Advance. Sandstream is an incredible offensive tool, canceling out leftovers from key defensive pokemon. Ttar brings outstanding pressure once he's on the field and in addition to his incredible stats he's arguably the most versatile pokemon in the tier, surpassing even Gengar. Both the Pursuitar and the DDttar(especially the 3 attack ones) are seeing incredibly high usage; his available sets also include but are not limited to: Mixed variations, Utility variations(roar/toxic/sub/taunt ect), Choice Band, lead variations, 4 physical attacks, substitute 3 attacks, you name it he does it.


Gengar

Gengar is the only viable spin blocker in OU. Sporting an incredible speed and paired with a defensive break kit such as Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Hypnosis, Explosion, Focus punch make Gengar a very powerful presence with sand and spikes in play.
Can and usually is Ev'ed to take pursuit from TTar and live the sandstorm tick, even going toe to toe with it with Giga Drain and some spikes down.
Additionally, 130 base special attack and a wide variety of coverage moves allow Gengar to be a special threat not to be underestimated and his presence requires immetiate attention as soon as he's in play before it gets half your team status'ed.


Suicune

Probably the best pokemon in the tier in the absence of sandstream. I believe Suicune is S rank because it requires definite checks in team building and immediate countering when its in. Despite having only a couple of options when it comes to move choices, it just never seems to die. Especially when its not revealed if its offensive or defensive, come unprepared, and Sub CM offensive suicune can 6-0 you right off the bat. Additionally, Suicune has incredible defenses if focused on, CB Jolly Dugtrio and Aerodactyl fail to break max bold Suicune without a critical or relevant hax, with Pressure cutting off PP on top of that. Suicune being able to take on Blissey,the premier special wall by itself as well as the physical assault of any top ranked physical pokemon justify it a better spot than the pokemon below it for me, but not as good as the above 2. I'd rank as S- if I could.


A-Rank

Zapdos

Spike Immunity, incredible typing, ability to offensively check waters and able to dish incredible amounts of unboosted damage, I consider Zapdos atm to be on top of the rest of the A tier because of the control it allows a team to have.
Zapdos can vary from a speedy control dual status spreader to a Baton Passer,to max Calm with Rest. Additionally, its offence even if left at 286 special attack synergises really well with Spikes.


Jirachi

Jirachi has a lot of set variations and the advent of the defensive Jirachi status spread sets (Astarachi special wall or my Toxic with physically bulk) as abusers and team anchors to the Protox Spikes Sand metagame were reasons for me to put Jirachi near S level. Wish passing is something Jirachi does best in the whole tier, based on its type resistances. But that's not only what Jirachi can do.
His Calm Mind sets are dangerous paired with Serene Grace and can vary from 3 attacks Superachi with Max speed, to super bulky pseudo Boltbeam. Additionally, it can carry the ever dangerous Dynamic Punch or a Sub set. This pokemon is held back by being traped by both trapers though, I feel it could otherwise be ranked slightly higher.


Skarmory

Skarmory is the alpha pokemon of the protox metagame that shifted most of recent ADV. Careful Protect Max Hp Max sp def Skarmory is broken, its the best set and a real metagame definer. Playing around this by having a move to hit it HARD, carrying a Magneton, Starmie and Claydol being everywhere, and the rise of toxic immune pokemon are causes of this pokemon's existence and effects on the metagame. It droped a few ranks from what I'd put it pre SPL, but returning sets such as taunt and drill peck that allow some counterplay vs Forretress and Refresh Claydol are allowing me to keep Skarmory in high A's.


Salamence

Has a lot of variety and incredible offences paired with dangerous 100 base speed. Mixmence is king, has very few counters and if it gets a good team match up, its pressure is immeasurable. DD is a bit slower and typically sweeps lategame, and dont forget the ever dangerous ChoiceBand set. Additionally it gets Spike immunity and intimidate to pivot in physical threats.


Metagross

Metagross is powerful but I believe right now it's slightly hurt by its speed tier, more fire punches flying around, not having a way to 2hko Skarmory(low base power hp fire and thunderpunch missing the crucial 2HKO) and trapable by both Magneton and Dugtrio(much worse vs Magneton than Jirachi) make it for me slightly worse than the pokemon above it. Still not to be underestimated, as it packs insane offensive power and is one of the best leads in the game. It has a way to sweep and avoid being revenged with Agility, as well as special sets that can get Swampert almost cost free, not to mentions its incredibly powerful explosion.


Celebi

Celebi has fallen off grace from the S tier, mostly because of unfavourable metagame changes, these being more spikes sand and toxics. It has natural cure to cure status but in the long run its too vulnerable to set up and sweep by itself as it used to. Still, it posseses high base stat and is a very versatile pokemon you should always account for, as guessing the wrong set can be fatal for your team. Its saving grace is spamming leech seed, giving it both longevity and % damage each turn.His Baton Pass is an incredibly powerful momentum tool it can abuse as well. I feel this pokemon's ranking varies the most from metagame to metagame.


Snorlax

Lax with its immunity trait and incredibly well placed stats is one of the metagame premier special walls. He can pseudo paralyse with Body slam, sports one of the metagame strongest booms,even sweep by itself with curse. Despite being weak to spikes and his low speed(his 2 major cons), he can work around those with good team support(Hello Claymag Snorlax teams) and this made him perform extremely well in SPL9, jumping ahead a few ranks for me.


Aerodactyl

Aero is on a good spot because of the spikes sandstorm being friendly to it and also enjoys the best speed control in the whole game(tied with Jolteon) which often allow him a momentum stop. HP Bug or Fighting(try adamant here) Aerodactyls, allow a smoother lategame clean when your opponent has carelessly stacked up weaknesses(commonly bug in Cele Clay Ttar but fighting is also incredibly powerful against a blissey/tar/steel lategame). Needless to say, CB Rock Slide Aero has always shots of reversing the match, packing at least one counter per team is strongly adviced.


Swampert

Swampert is the best bulky water (incredible defensively for countering physical threats because of the rock resist) which you can slap on any team and do well with, allows you to have some sort of 'check' on offensive powerhouses that are DDers, Metagross and Aero. Recent Refresh sets are good metagame catch ups, but careful of sacrificing valuable coverage.


Blissey

Blissey is stupidly good at what it does, so good actually that you need to check it in a way that your Gengar/Starmie/Zapdos special armada wont auto lose to it. Frankly, she's always been kinda too good but only misses out a better spot because of it not being an immediate offensive threat like the above pokemon. Her offensive pressure is limited and altho her metagame super effective moves in sand(like IceBeam ad FireBlast) sting, against prepared counters like Snorlax and Rest/Refresh waters might cause a shift in momentum. Often and especially with spikes in play, you only have a turn to softboil before being forced out. Natural cure helps her have a good spot in the toxic/status sand meta.


Dugtrio

Dugtrio's spot in the meta is probably right where it needs to; it trap kills pokemon better than it but its vulnerable to spikes and doesnt offer almost anything defensively other than pure revenge traping.


Heracross

Hracross is underapreciated. He can open holes on the opposing team, even sweep a full team with extremely powerful Megahorns but at the same time it always leaves something to be desired. Its hard to balance a team with Heracross mostly because defensively it doesnt offer much, additionally it doesnt help you minimize your trap vulnerable mons.


Starmie

Starmie is an incredibly powerful Rapid spinner because it packs Natural cure, 115 base speed and a wide array of special move to abuse. Both of his STABs are special and incredibly powerful, Hydro Pump especially coming from 299 sp attack has really good shots of OHKO'ing uninvested ttar. Usually seen with 3 special moves + rapid spin, but also Recover and thunderwave, it easily fits on most teams.


Flygon

I like Flygon a lot but I can't justify him a better spot right now in the meta, especially with the resurgence of Ice Beam DD ttars. His DDttar counter/rock resist took a huge blow, despite having everything on his favor by having sand and spike immunity. Likely for him to claim a better rank is to revert back to Choice sets, perhaps 328 Jolly that will help it kill dreaded slower Gengars and somewhat able to tie those annoying Jirachi's.


Jolteon

Spike control teams with Roar Jolteon are a thing, even double elec, or triple elec stacking. Volt absorb let him get in a few key pokemon, especially from a hidden backline spot, and 394 speed is the highest in the tier. Dislikes status a lot tho, it has a trouble softening up counters by himself, but likely it ranks higher on Jolteon-specific teams as the 394 speed value is incredible.


Magneton

Moved it up in ranks, mostly because of how good it does what it does. And that's killing Skarmory. This allows archetypes and pokemon who's worse enemy is Skarmory fuction a tenfold better. Additionally, sometimes it can get a CBMMash locked Metagross and its Magnet Boosted Thunderbolts in sand hurt Snorlax a LOT.


Forretress

Boring spiker and spinner, but does that work well. Counters Skarmory, but has trouble hurting Gengar forcing almost always a pursuitar pair. Add your own Gengar for spin blocking and suddenly half your team is known/revealed before you got to play them. (biggest con). Huge opportunities for set up sweepers when its in(usually forcing its explosion)


Claydol

I like Claydol, and its probably in the best spot it has ever been in ADV right now, as a rapid spinner that can 2hko Gengar uninvested. It can pack Explosion or Refresh as its filler move, depending on what team it's fit in. I like the ability to soft check Jirachi without riskng your Snorlax, also fuctions as a non Hp Bug DDttar counter.


B-Rank
Wont Write as much as A



Weezing

Immune to toxic and spikes, has taunt and explosion(actually has a lot of incredible things). Probably what I type is irrelevant in front of something like an avid Weezing user like UD can, but this pokemon being in he highest of B is justified. Its his metagame right now, dont underestimate the damage this can do to a team. oh and Will-o-Wisp's, Burn spread is broken in ADV.

Cloyster

His typing doesnt really help it get in easy on today's metagame teams, and despite learning both spin and spikes, it should only really Spike and not bring spin. Explosion is a saving grace but use with caution.

Moltres

Incredibly underrated, but Will-O-Wisp, 125 base special and spike immunity. Not many of the higher ranked pokemon like switching into it. It can Roar blissey to rack up quick 25% on her without wasting FB PP, which does this much ( 27.8 - 32.7% ) with Timid.

Marowak

Incredibly powerful physical sweeper. Gets even better with proper team support, it can easily get in a sweeping position.

Venusaur

Immunity to Toxic, access to leech seed and sleep powder.

Milotic

A bit low on the ranking, but hard to justify a slot on a team for it right now. Offers less offensively than pert and suicune, Recover and refresh are its main selling points. Hypnosis too.

Porygon2

Counter traper to dugtrio, its main selling point. Boltbeam access and recover might make you think it deserves a better spot, but he's a huge momentum sink by allowing pokemon like Metagross Snorlax and Ttar in.

Gyarados

As a DD it suffers from not having good coverage moves to pair with EQ. Its good that it can capitalise on Suicune and Swampert, but you need to pick between Hp flying and rock, as well as sacrifice a lot of bulk to outspeed Aerodactyl when HP rock.

Regice

Enjoyed a rest talk metagame more. Now predictable sets, in boom or TWRest. Not good that it cant beat the top 2 CM pokemon in the game either(Cune and Jirachi), gets a much lower rank than early ADV would have it. At least it kept stab Ice Beams to nail Swamperts.

Smeargle

Spore allowing free set up, what is usually spikes in unonventional agressive teams these days. its explosion on those set may net you a second pokemon(sleep neutralises one) so dont underestimate it. Less often you will see it BDrum pass.

Raikou

Much harder to sweep with it, once its in more or less you MUST commit. Worse trait and speed than Jolteon, CM doesnt save if from being walled by blissey and getting traped and outsped by Dugtrio is harsh for a pokemon that can only be a sweeper.

Hariyama

Haryiama teams abusing knock off, spikes, sand and phasing are a thing. Fits within specific archetypes both his abilities are usable in the meta. Interesting mon that should be used more.

Camerupt

Probably safest switch in Gengar. Good niche to have, especially since it cant get frozen by its trait. Explosion, strong stab Fire Blast is what it brings, sometimes paired with Prot Tox, others with its stab EQ.

Cacturne

It can spike and is very annoying with sand in play. Trapable and 4x weak to hp bug tho, hard to switch in on offensive paced meta. Him getting cost free on the standard CMSeed Celebi is an incredibly powerful aspect of it.

Dragonite

Very versatile and can DD, additionally it can actually take a lot of punishment. Despite being on the lowest of the B pokemon, the raw stats and movepool don't justify it being lower. Not a good metagame for Dragonite unfortunately.


C-Rank


Kingdra
Vaporeon
Medicham
Charizard
Umbreon
Regirock
Donphan
Rhydon
Steelix
Machamp
Articuno
Ludicolo
Dusclops
Breloom
Houndoom


D-Rank

[Not enough usage, D-rank should be droped for me but for the sake of ranking the individual pokemon within:]

Omastar
Jynx
Alakazam
Blaziken
Solrock
Sceptile
Lunatone
Tauros
Slaking
Exeggutor
Armaldo
Sableye
 
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McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the 5th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Championis a defending SPL Championis a Past SPL Champion
Big Chungus Winner
I have collected enough datas to progress in the establishment of these new rankings. Before proceeding with further informations, I'd like to thank the people who took the time to make those and send them to me. Cheers to M Dragon Jirachee Triangles Smurf. BKC Fear undisputed We Three Kings Lavos UD Astamatitos. It is thanks to you guys that I could accomplish this task.

Without further ado, here are the new Viability Rankings:
  • Tyranitar
  • Gengar
  • Skarmory
  • Metagross
  • Zapdos
  • Suicune
  • Celebi
  • Blissey
  • Jirachi
  • Swampert
  • Salamence
  • Snorlax
  • Aerodactyl
  • Dugtrio
  • Magneton
  • Starmie
  • Heracross
  • Flygon
  • Jolteon
  • Claydol
  • Milotic
  • Forretress
  • Porygon2
  • Moltres
  • Gyarados
  • Cloyster
  • Weezing
  • Venusaur
  • Regice
  • Raikou
  • Ludicolo
  • Camerupt
  • Kingdra
  • Vaporeon
  • Smeargle
  • Houndoom
  • Charizard
  • Steelix
  • Medicham
  • Hariyama
  • Regirock
  • Dragonite
  • Umbreon
  • Marowak
  • Donphan
  • Omastar
  • Dusclops
  • Cacturne
  • Jynx
  • Machamp
  • Alakazam
  • Rhydon
  • Lunatone
  • Articuno
  • Slaking
  • Blaziken
  • Sceptile
  • Tauros
  • Solrock
  • Breloom
  • Exeggutor

You can consult all the datas by clicking HERE.

Some explanations, informations, etc:
  • The first post has been updated with the above ranking. You can see the old ranking and the new ranking side by side >>here<<.
  • You may notice that there are no ranks separations as of now (S, A, B, C). This is normal, as I plan to discuss where to draw the lines with other players both here and on discord. Those, along with their definitions, will be added in the future.
  • Important: As I said in the original post, I have decided to remove outliers out of the equation for the final ranking. That means I did not take into account the highest and lowest individual ranking for each Pokemon in their average, as I felt it'd be a good way to remove bias in general. If two people sent the highest individual ranking of one Pokemon, I of course only discounted one of them.
  • If you open the data document, you will notice there are two pages. The first one has all the datas with the outliers manually removed. The second page has all the datas. You can see each and everyone's ranking there. I have highlighted in green the positive outliers and red the negative outliers.
  • In case of a tie (for example Zapdos and Suicune), the tiebreaker was their ranking with the outliers.
  • I have decided to remove some Pokemons from the Rankings as they didn't receive enough data, showing that truely, not enough players cared for them.
And finally, some "funny" statistics:
  • The only person who had the final top10 as their top10 was me
    .
  • From Tyranitar (1) to Weezing (27), the outliers didn't influence the final ranking, beside separating some ties.
  • If we take the first 20 Pokemons into account, the players with the most outliers are BKC and Undisputed with 8 both*.
  • With 35 Pokemons (pretty much the old S->B), it becomes UD with 11 occurences*.
  • If we take the first 20 Pokemons into account, the player with the least outlier is Triangles with 0*.
  • With 35 Pokemons, it still is Triangles with 2*.
  • Among the top 35, the most extreme outliers are: UD's Raikou (47><30), Smurf's Kingdra (17><31), M Dragon's Weezing (41><27), Fear's Ludicolo (48><34) BKC's Suicune (18><6), my Venusaur (41><29), Astamatitos' Moltres (35><24), UD's Weezing (18><27), UD's Skarmory (11><3), Smurf's Blissey (15><8) and M Dragon's Salamence (4><11).
  • The "single" biggest outliers are UD's Raikou (47><30), Undisputed's Marowak (26><43) and Smurf's Slaking (37><54), all with a 17 spots difference.
*without taking Gengar's 2nd rank into account as it was agreed upon by almost everyone.

That is all for now folks! If you have questions or some remarks to say, go ahead. Next step is deciding where to draw the lines for the S/A/B/C/D ranks.

EDIT: Triangles forgot to include Regice in his ranking. I did the math with his updated ranking and it results in Gyarados and Cloyster swapping spots. This change will be refleted in the first post and the ranking in the hide tag here.
 
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Hey what's Lunatone's job? I understand he's really good in uu but why is he ranked here? Some low end pokemon with no usage/meta impact are self-explanatory, like Medicham, others require very specific knowledge of the tier to understand where they might be used.

Do you guys believe viability rankings are primarily for meta defining threats and giving the community a quick rundown or just a general representation of each mon's useful "potential"? There's no wrong answer, I'm just curious as to the mentality of the voters.
 
This is my personal viability ranking. I've offered an explanation for all of the top metagame pokemon down to A- being where they are right now, except for TTar since there appears to be no contention it is 1st. Currently I'm fairly happy with the viability rankings, so these are also my suggestions as to cutoff points in viability tiers. Also, this is how I'd divide up the rankings from the surveyed rankings:
S rank:
Tyranitar
Gengar

Personally I strongly believe these 2 should only be the only pokemon S rank. I'm less interested in justifying Tyranitar since we should all be on the same page that it is S. Gengar has amazing coverage that can hit a huge portion of the tier. What it can't hit with special attacks, it can wisp. Furthermore, it has hypnosis that can potentially synergise well with Dugtrio, and let it escape pursuit trapping. With explosion to hit sp def sponges like Blissey hard, and even the ability to wear down Blissey without exploding by taunt, wisp, sand, and spike damage over the course of a longer game, Gengar is incredibly difficult to respond to. Gengar now frequently runs a bulky spread that lets it always live pursuit trapping, meaning it is free to explode later on in the game. Gengar has adapted to all metagame changes very well, and it's very clear that it has the toolkit to do so in future. Spinblocking, coming in on Skarm for free, and all the options it has will always be incredibly good, so it should stay in S.

However, I do not believe any other pokemon should be in S.

Celebi has some variety in its sets, but the defensive ones all let Skarm or Forre come in easily to lay down spikes, and have further notable disadvantages. It likes to have utility moves such as Perish song, BP, or screens, but if it wants any of those, it has to drop a stab move. If it doesn't run grass, it can't KO dug and is susceptible to trapping, and it can't damage ttar outside of leech seed. Without psychic though, it can't take on taunt gengar, and lets Heracross in. CM sets are nice, and it can even Baton Pass the boosts out, but I don't think it should be in S anymore, although A+ is absolutely fine.

Suicune is the best water type in the tier, but it has notable disadvantages with its defences compared to Swampert that make me think it doesn't deserve S. It lacks a rock resist, and takes sand damage, which means defensive sets need rest. This gives the opponent free turns. Swampert has space for protect, Suicune does not, and this means Suicune is easier for pokemon like Metagross to boom on than Swampert is. That being said, it has great options in both offensive and defensive sets, even if offensively it is somewhat inconsistent. It can shoulder a surprise HP grass from a ttar fairly easily whereas Swampert can not. Personally I think this pokemon falls short of S, but it is one of the stronger pokemon of the metagame, so let's put it high up in A+.

Skarmory is the best spiker in the tier. However, it can only really apply pressure through spikes, or toxic + protect stalling. This is totally ineffective against refresh claydol, and Gengar. It lets Gengar in for free, which is one of the most difficult pokemon to respond to. I don't think trapping should be a huge deal for some pokemon, because dug can't switch in to TTar without risking being OHKO'd by eq as it comes in, but the fact that Skarmory lets Magneton in for completely free, and then even 252+ sp def gets OHKO by magnet tbolt around 75% of the time is also a key factor why I don't think Skarm deserves S.

A+ Rank
Skarmory
I think spikes are a big deal in adv. They soften a lot of matchups by just blanket chipping the vast majority of the tier. Skarm can whirl out stuff that tries to set up on it, and is a very effective wall. Ultimately I think spikes are balanced in adv, but they're tough to prepare for, and they're an incredibly effective style. When skarm is so superior to the other spikers, and provides such a valuable move, that ought to be reflected in the rankings, and that is why I have placed it at the top of A+.
Suicune
As I mentioned before, I think Suicune is extremely effective. It's a nice wincon, with a variety of options, and in the meantime it can function as a valuable wall. Its offensive sets are perhaps less consistent, but still good, and +1 modest hydro pump hits hard. With roar to make the opponent wary about engaging in a CM war, and Sub on the offensive sets to stop toxic, this pokemon has variety. I think sand damage + lack of rock resist keeps it in A+, but it has everything else it needs to be amazing, so I've ranked it here.
Blissey
The greatest sp def sponge in the game. I've ranked it here because it plays a powerful role in one of the strongest playstyles, TSS, and also because it is incredibly consistent. With a spike layer, Ice Beam will take out Dugtrio, and as long as you play carefully around Gengar's boom, Blissey will continue to eat up special attacks with ease, all game. While it does take spikes and sand damage, it has reliable recovery to deal with it, and the special bulk to continue to take special hits even with 3 layers up on your side. This mon has a couple of options, though I think toxic sets significantly stronger than CM sets. Fire Blast has proven to be a nice pick to get big damage on Skarm in the TSS mirror, even though it does have its drawbacks. Blissey can chip away at most things with Toxic, and Metagross coming in risks getting a big hit off on it from a Fire Blast. The fact that it takes special hits so well, is useful in a bunch of matchups, and has a very strong influence on teambuilding for teams that choose to use multiple special attackers make me think it should just about make it into the top 5.
Zapdos
Zapdos continues to have a number of interesting properties. As a sp def wall, it can switch into attacks without taking spike damage. As an offensive pokemon, it can stall out whatever switches in with a combination of toxic and protect. Roar has both offensive and defensive capabilities as it can be used to shuffle around its checks so that they take spike damage. Importantly, it also has a good matchup vs many of the top mons, the main ones being Gengar, Skarm, Suicune. It can also run baton pass to get in Dugtrio on the special wall, and has access to lure options like Drill Peck to hit Celebi as it comes in. I initially had it ranked lower but after seeing the new rankings I agree, Zapdos is consistent and versatile enough to warrant a high rank.
Metagross
Metagross remains consistent, with a variety of moves it can utilise to stay relevant. It can even hit from the special side with psychic, hidden power fire, or hidden power grass. With solid physical bulk, it can take on Tyranitar alright and Mash in return. The physical bulk and the rock resistance means it brings nice defensive properties to a team, while remaining the offensive powerhouse that you expect it to be. With boom, it can open up holes in the opposing team, and with agility, it can function as a strong wincon that is immune to intimidate. I think it's a really good pokemon, but I've put it lower than the 5th rank in the compiled rankings. This is due to Skarm being able to spike up on it fairly easily, and Mash not being overly likely to take out DD TTar from full. Explosion is typically a move you'll want to use after you've gotten some value out of your pokemon, but after being weakened, Metagross is susceptible to trapping from both Dugtrio and Magneton. I don't think this is anywhere close to making it bad, because it's a very good pokemon, but I do think it's enough to keep it out of the top 5.
Swampert
This is the strongest DD ttar check, and a very effective physical wall. Its viability has only increased now that people have started experimenting with refresh sets in SPL. While it can be worn down over the course of a game, it can make use of protect to get additional leftovers healing due to it taking no sand damage, and is a very consistent response to some of the metagame's top threats. Therefore I've given it a high rank.
Celebi
I feel like Celebi is a good pokemon, and tough to kill. However, it does invite spikers to set up on it, which it will require support to counteract. Celebi is an effective defensive pokemon, and can be difficult to kill when it can just click leech seed, and gain hp as it chips yours slowly down. The fact that it takes so much from CB Dugtrio's HP bug should make you wary of letting it get low. Celebi has unique, powerful properties to it, such as being able to CM up and pass those boosts out, and the defensive set can take on an interesting mix of both physical and special pokemon that no other wall in the tier can. Nevertheless, the aforementioned disadvantages are the reasons why I've ranked it slightly lower in my own rankings as opposed to the survey rankings.
Jirachi
A powerful wincon, it more often than not runs Wish sets now. This pokemon has some similarities with Suicune in that it can keep a strong defence early game, and then win late game. However, it doesn't apply a great deal of pressure early on, and mostly just ends up fishing for burns with fire punch, which can take a while. It requires support to remove pokemon such as TTar that gonna cause it trouble. However, it has some nice variety in moves and sets it can run. It does what you want it to with some consistency, and is fairly useful at every point in the game. I've put it at the back of A+ for the reason that it is a consistent, good, pokemon, but not necessarily as overwhelming as, say, Metagross, for example, and not as good of a wincon as Suicune.

A Rank
Salamence
I've ranked Salamence at the top of A. There is no doubt that it is a good pokemon. It has 3 main sets, those being Mixed, Banded, and DD. The latter two will require magneton to work effectively, and this leaves Mixed as the most independent set. However, that can be walled out by mons such as Zapdos and Milotic, the former won't even take spike damage. Salamence offers intimidate, a very useful ability. However, it actually loses 1v1 to a lot of the top pokemon. As for the DD and CB sets, with only 70 bp, +1 HP flying isn't as powerful as we would all like it to be. There is also the factor that if Mence does choose to run Band, it will slowly get chipped away at by sand. I think Salamence is good, it has a variety of sets it can run, and it brings something unique and useful to the table in intimidate. That being said, I don't think the sets are too difficult to guess, and it becomes very obvious which one it is after the first move. I see Mence as very good, but no longer one of the frontrunners of the metagame, therefore I ranked it at the very top of A.
Dugtrio
Dugtrio plays a key role in setting up for many wincons. It's going to require some support to reach its full potential, and it definitely has its limits. It also enables defensive teams to limit the number of kills certain breakers such as SD Heracross and CB TTar can get. It is useful for making sure an aggressive pokemon can't just continually apply pressure to a defensive team and just switch out after every time it gets a kill. It also can deal a lot of damage to +1 DD ttar, so it can help prevent a team from getting swept by that. Some examples of useful combos include Zapdos baton passing out to Dugtrio as the opponent switches to Blissey or Celebi, and bulky Gengar surviving TTar's pursuit as it switches out to Dugtrio. Despite its very weak stats, it has unique properties due to its incredible ability, so I think Dugtrio has earned its spot here.
Snorlax
Reliant on rest for recover, and taking both spike and sand damage, Snorlax certainly has its limits. More often than not, it will require Magneton to function. However, it plays a key role in being the pokemon that takes special hits well on Physical Offence spam + mag teams. It can function as a decent wincon, and takes on a large portion of the tier. With a powerful self destruct to open up holes in the opposing team, Snorlax is a nice pick for a team. Snorlax continues to be able to take hits from the special attackers of the tier, and then hit harder back. This will always make it at least somewhat decent, so despite it getting chipped easily, I'll keep it here.
Aerodactyl
An effective late game cleaner. With high speed, a spammable STAB, and the flinch chance that every player has a horror story of having their games stolen by, Aerodactyl does its job effectively. However, it is not usually too useful in the early game, and often you'll want to keep it in the back for as long as possible while you try and weaken the opponent's rock resists. It being effective at what it does, but limited outside of that role, and without much diversity in moveslot choices, makes me put Aero at the back of the A ranks.

A- Rank
Magneton
I've ranked Skarmory highly, and so, I will also rank Magneton highly. It plays a key role in enabling physical offence spam teams to function, and also a key role on defensive teams that use it to eliminate the opponent's skarm, thus limiting spikes. While I realise that it is only as good as when it eliminates Skarmory, it can help to take out a weakened Metagross to stop it booming later, and its tbolts definitely hit hard. While this pokemon has a niche purpose, I believe that niche is powerful enough to earn it a place at the top of the a- rank, as it is an essential component of so many teams. It beats out non fire punch Gengar, and can also do things such as take out a weakened Metagross. This pokemon is not diverse, it just does what you want it to, and does it fairly consistently thanks to Magnet Tbolt OHKOing Skarm around 75% of the time. For a lot of teams, Magneton is simply not droppable, it should have a reasonably important place in the rankings to reflect this.
Claydol
Claydol is the most reliable and consistent spinner in the game. Refresh sets are incredibly effective vs TSS builds, where it can be absolutely invaluable. If you pair it with a Magneton, you can run explosion over refresh and put a big dent in something on the way down. While it might not take on DD TTar totally reliably due to a weakness to HP bug, it has a useful rock resistance, and can deal a moderate amount of damage back with stab EQ. This also means that it can switch into Aero rock slide nicely, and not take any spikes damage thanks to levitate. While it might not be good in every matchup, it being a spinner, that's immune to spikes, has nice resistances, and that beats Gengar, makes it consistent enough in its job of hazard removal to earn its a- spot.
Starmie
To begin, I think Starmie's defensive sets are pretty bad and very much inferior to the other defensive waters in the tier. Therefore, I've judged it instead on its offensive potential, which is relatively strong. It certainly has a good matchup vs a good number of offensive teams, and it also provides good utility in rapid spin. However, due to it being fairly frail, and vulnerable to both sand and spikes, realistically this is only going to be a one time spin. It provides nice utility in spin, and good offensive potential, but it has clear responses and a limited window in which to act in, so I've kept it in A-.
Heracross
Heracross has a number of interesting properties that mean it can have a very good matchup vs certain slower teams. It has useful stabs, a potential to run guts to make its power only increase when it gets burned, and decent enough bulk. It has high attack and a strong BP stab in megahorn, which gives it plenty of power. Combined with having just good enough speed, this can make it a very difficult pokemon to deal with for defensive teams. It has some versatility, as it can instead choose to run SubSalac Swarm sets that aim to sweep late game and function as a wincon late game. Chances are everyone has used a very Hera weak team in a tour match at one point or another. Despite that, it isn't very consistent, so while it has a higher ceiling than the other pokemon in this rank, it will have a lower floor.
Jolteon
Jolteon does exactly what you'd expect, and fairly consistently. It's fast, deals out decent damage with thunderbolts, and keeps momentum with baton pass, as well as escaping Dugtrio. It beats Gengar 1v1 and outspeeds it, which is always nice. Jolteon has the interesting trait that it deters the opponent from just firing off a tbolt at your Skarmory, for example, because it might just come in and heal off of it. This requires prediction but it's a unique trait that comes into play in many battles and is definitely worth mentioning. However, also, as you'd expect, it has great difficulty breaking through sp def walls by itself, and will likely need to make use of Baton Pass + other team members to accomplish this. I won't write too much on this since I think we have it in roughly the right place, and its ranking won't change too much even with the revamp.
Flygon
While Flygon is still effective, I believe it's now much less so due to DD ice beam TTar seeing usage in spl. This is a huge hit in viability to its physically defensive set. Choice Band has a strong EQ, but it will require some support to function, such as Magneton trapping Skarm. This pokemon is far from independent. However, it does have a useful Rock resist, while maintaining the spikes/eq immunity. This means that it does actually beat out most DD TTar sets well, it just gets destroyed by ice beam. CB can take any Aero hit and then OHKO in return:
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 292-344 (97 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
I think Flygon is fairly mediocre now thanks to DD ice beam TTar, so it's worth considering dropping to B+, but for now I think it is just good enough for A-.

B+ Rank
Milotic
Gyarados
Moltres
This pokemon has risen a lot since the last ranking, and for good reason. Powerful Fire Blasts and good utility in wisp make it scary for teams that lack Blissey. A strong special attacker with some interesting traits to it, but limited by its speed, and weakness to rock and water attacks, I feel like B+ is a good spot for it.
Forretress
Porygon2
Cloyster
Weezing
Weezing is an interesting pokemon, with access to powerful coverage moves like Fire Blast and Thunder, it also can wisp pokemon on the switch in, and explode on sp def sponges. While it has clear drawbacks, I feel like it having strong offensive pressure means it deserves to be at the back of B+.

B Rank
Venusaur
While Venusaur is a useful lead, it requires some support to function, and as a defensive pokemon, it is held back by vulnerability to sand and spikes, while having to rely on leech seed to heal itself. Leading off with sleep powder and matching up well vs Zapdos and most TTar leads is very nice, but I think this pokemon needs enough support to the point where it is at the start of the B ranks rather than at the back of B+.
Raikou
Regice
Camerupt
Vaporeon
Hariyama
Hariyama has decent bulk, a good rock resist, nice abilities in Guts and Thick fat. With Knock Off, it ensures pokemon that like to switch into it have limited recovery, and can then start firing away with Cross Chops off 120 base attack stat. With useful resistances vs both of TTar's stab moves, good enough bulk, knock off to stop leftovers, and then a powerful fighting STAB, I've put Hariyama at the back of B due to it having a number of fairly unique merits that set it apart from other pokemon in the tier. Below B rank is when I personally start to get skeptical over whether I should be attempting to use this pokemon in OU at all, Hariyama is just above that threshold, so I've reflected this in my rankings.

B- Rank
Houndoom
Ludicolo
Kingdra
Charizard
Smeargle
Donphan
Steelix
Cacturne

C Rank
Medicham
Regirock
Dragonite
Umbreon
Marowak
Dusclops
Omastar
Jynx
Alakazam
Rhydon
Lunatone
Articuno

I've cut my rankings off here, as basically I see Slaking and below as meme mons that people only really use for the novelty value. I'd rather we unrank pokemon like this altogether.
 
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Hey what's Lunatone's job? I understand he's really good in uu but why is he ranked here? Some low end pokemon with no usage/meta impact are self-explanatory, like Medicham, others require very specific knowledge of the tier to understand where they might be used.

Do you guys believe viability rankings are primarily for meta defining threats and giving the community a quick rundown or just a general representation of each mon's useful "potential"? There's no wrong answer, I'm just curious as to the mentality of the voters.
Lunatone gets cm pass and hypnosis meaning it doesnt have the same issue as celebi at passing against Skarmory. In addition it is the foremost ddmence check in the tier. Which means it also has some good setup fodders to do its job.
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
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Big Chungus Winner
Do you guys believe viability rankings are primarily for meta defining threats and giving the community a quick rundown or just a general representation of each mon's useful "potential"? There's no wrong answer, I'm just curious as to the mentality of the voters.
I think the VRs do both. The upper ranks show what are the metagame shapers/strongest pokemons available, while the lower ranks show everything that has enough potential or a niche to be used. Then people can ask why they're there when they don't know why, like you did with Lunatone.
 
This is my personal viability ranking. I've offered an explanation for all of the top metagame pokemon down to A- being where they are right now, except for TTar since there appears to be no contention it is 1st. Currently I'm fairly happy with the viability rankings, so these are also my suggestions as to cutoff points in viability tiers. Also, this is how I'd divide up the rankings from the surveyed rankings:
S rank:
Tyranitar
Gengar

Personally I strongly believe these 2 should only be the only pokemon S rank. I'm less interested in justifying Tyranitar since we should all be on the same page that it is S. Gengar has amazing coverage that can hit a huge portion of the tier. What it can't hit with special attacks, it can wisp. Furthermore, it has hypnosis that can potentially synergise well with Dugtrio, and let it escape pursuit trapping. With explosion to hit sp def sponges like Blissey hard, and even the ability to wear down Blissey without exploding by taunt, wisp, sand, and spike damage over the course of a longer game, Gengar is incredibly difficult to respond to. Gengar now frequently runs a bulky spread that lets it always live pursuit trapping, meaning it is free to explode later on in the game. Gengar has adapted to all metagame changes very well, and it's very clear that it has the toolkit to do so in future. Spinblocking, coming in on Skarm for free, and all the options it has will always be incredibly good, so it should stay in S.

However, I do not believe any other pokemon should be in S.

Celebi has some variety in its sets, but the defensive ones all let Skarm or Forre come in easily to lay down spikes, and have further notable disadvantages. It likes to have utility moves such as Perish song, BP, or screens, but if it wants any of those, it has to drop a stab move. If it doesn't run grass, it can't KO dug and is susceptible to trapping, and it can't damage ttar outside of leech seed. Without psychic though, it can't take on taunt gengar, and lets Heracross in. CM sets are nice, and it can even Baton Pass the boosts out, but I don't think it should be in S anymore, although A+ is absolutely fine.

Suicune is the best water type in the tier, but it has notable disadvantages with its defences compared to Swampert that make me think it doesn't deserve S. It lacks a rock resist, and takes sand damage, which means defensive sets need rest. This gives the opponent free turns. Swampert has space for protect, Suicune does not, and this means Suicune is easier for pokemon like Metagross to boom on than Swampert is. That being said, it has great options in both offensive and defensive sets, even if offensively it is somewhat inconsistent. It can shoulder a surprise HP grass from a ttar fairly easily whereas Swampert can not. Personally I think this pokemon falls short of S, but it is one of the stronger pokemon of the metagame, so let's put it high up in A+.

Skarmory is the best spiker in the tier. However, it can only really apply pressure through spikes, or toxic + protect stalling. This is totally ineffective against refresh claydol, and Gengar. It lets Gengar in for free, which is one of the most difficult pokemon to respond to. I don't think trapping should be a huge deal for some pokemon, because dug can't switch in to TTar without risking being OHKO'd by eq as it comes in, but the fact that Skarmory lets Magneton in for completely free, and then even 252+ sp def gets OHKO by magnet tbolt around 75% of the time is also a key factor why I don't think Skarm deserves S.

A+ Rank
Skarmory
I think spikes are a big deal in adv. They soften a lot of matchups by just blanket chipping the vast majority of the tier. Skarm can whirl out stuff that tries to set up on it, and is a very effective wall. Ultimately I think spikes are balanced in adv, but they're tough to prepare for, and they're an incredibly effective style. When skarm is so superior to the other spikers, and provides such a valuable move, that ought to be reflected in the rankings, and that is why I have placed it at the top of A+.
Suicune
As I mentioned before, I think Suicune is extremely effective. It's a nice wincon, with a variety of options, and in the meantime it can function as a valuable wall. Its offensive sets are perhaps less consistent, but still good, and +1 modest hydro pump hits hard. With roar to make the opponent wary about engaging in a CM war, and Sub on the offensive sets to stop toxic, this pokemon has variety. I think sand damage + lack of rock resist keeps it in A+, but it has everything else it needs to be amazing, so I've ranked it here.
Blissey
The greatest sp def sponge in the game. I've ranked it here because it plays a powerful role in one of the strongest playstyles, TSS, and also because it is incredibly consistent. With a spike layer, Ice Beam will take out Dugtrio, and as long as you play carefully around Gengar's boom, Blissey will continue to eat up special attacks with ease, all game. While it does take spikes and sand damage, it has reliable recovery to deal with it, and the special bulk to continue to take special hits even with 3 layers up on your side. This mon has a couple of options, though I think toxic sets significantly stronger than CM sets. Fire Blast has proven to be a nice pick to get big damage on Skarm in the TSS mirror, even though it does have its drawbacks. Blissey can chip away at most things with Toxic, and Metagross coming in risks getting a big hit off on it from a Fire Blast. The fact that it takes special hits so well, is useful in a bunch of matchups, and has a very strong influence on teambuilding for teams that choose to use multiple special attackers make me think it should just about make it into the top 5.
Zapdos
Zapdos continues to have a number of interesting properties. As a sp def wall, it can switch into attacks without taking spike damage. As an offensive pokemon, it can stall out whatever switches in with a combination of toxic and protect. Roar has both offensive and defensive capabilities as it can be used to shuffle around its checks so that they take spike damage. Importantly, it also has a good matchup vs many of the top mons, the main ones being Gengar, Skarm, Suicune. It can also run baton pass to get in Dugtrio on the special wall, and has access to lure options like Drill Peck to hit Celebi as it comes in. I initially had it ranked lower but after seeing the new rankings I agree, Zapdos is consistent and versatile enough to warrant a high rank.
Metagross
Metagross remains consistent, with a variety of moves it can utilise to stay relevant. It can even hit from the special side with psychic, hidden power fire, or hidden power grass. With solid physical bulk, it can take on Tyranitar alright and Mash in return. The physical bulk and the rock resistance means it brings nice defensive properties to a team, while remaining the offensive powerhouse that you expect it to be. With boom, it can open up holes in the opposing team, and with agility, it can function as a strong wincon that is immune to intimidate. I think it's a really good pokemon, but I've put it lower than the 5th rank in the compiled rankings. This is due to Skarm being able to spike up on it fairly easily, and Mash not being overly likely to take out DD TTar from full. Explosion is typically a move you'll want to use after you've gotten some value out of your pokemon, but after being weakened, Metagross is susceptible to trapping from both Dugtrio and Magneton. I don't think this is anywhere close to making it bad, because it's a very good pokemon, but I do think it's enough to keep it out of the top 5.
Swampert
This is the strongest DD ttar check, and a very effective physical wall. Its viability has only increased now that people have started experimenting with refresh sets in SPL. While it can be worn down over the course of a game, it can make use of protect to get additional leftovers healing due to it taking no sand damage, and is a very consistent response to some of the metagame's top threats. Therefore I've given it a high rank.
Celebi
I feel like Celebi is a good pokemon, and tough to kill. However, it does invite spikers to set up on it, which it will require support to counteract. Celebi is an effective defensive pokemon, and can be difficult to kill when it can just click leech seed, and gain hp as it chips yours slowly down. The fact that it takes so much from CB Dugtrio's HP bug should make you wary of letting it get low. Celebi has unique, powerful properties to it, such as being able to CM up and pass those boosts out, and the defensive set can take on an interesting mix of both physical and special pokemon that no other wall in the tier can. Nevertheless, the aforementioned disadvantages are the reasons why I've ranked it slightly lower in my own rankings as opposed to the survey rankings.
Jirachi
A powerful wincon, it more often than not runs Wish sets now. This pokemon has some similarities with Suicune in that it can keep a strong defence early game, and then win late game. However, it doesn't apply a great deal of pressure early on, and mostly just ends up fishing for burns with fire punch, which can take a while. It requires support to remove pokemon such as TTar that gonna cause it trouble. However, it has some nice variety in moves and sets it can run. It does what you want it to with some consistency, and is fairly useful at every point in the game. I've put it at the back of A+ for the reason that it is a consistent, good, pokemon, but not necessarily as overwhelming as, say, Metagross, for example, and not as good of a wincon as Suicune.

A Rank
Salamence
I've ranked Salamence at the top of A. There is no doubt that it is a good pokemon. It has 3 main sets, those being Mixed, Banded, and DD. The latter two will require magneton to work effectively, and this leaves Mixed as the most independent set. However, that can be walled out by mons such as Zapdos and Milotic, the former won't even take spike damage. Salamence offers intimidate, a very useful ability. However, it actually loses 1v1 to a lot of the top pokemon. As for the DD and CB sets, with only 70 bp, +1 HP flying isn't as powerful as we would all like it to be. There is also the factor that if Mence does choose to run Band, it will slowly get chipped away at by sand. I think Salamence is good, it has a variety of sets it can run, and it brings something unique and useful to the table in intimidate. That being said, I don't think the sets are too difficult to guess, and it becomes very obvious which one it is after the first move. I see Mence as very good, but no longer one of the frontrunners of the metagame, therefore I ranked it at the very top of A.
Dugtrio
Dugtrio plays a key role in setting up for many wincons. It's going to require some support to reach its full potential, and it definitely has its limits. It also enables defensive teams to limit the number of kills certain breakers such as SD Heracross and CB TTar can get. It is useful for making sure an aggressive pokemon can't just continually apply pressure to a defensive team and just switch out after every time it gets a kill. It also can deal a lot of damage to +1 DD ttar, so it can help prevent a team from getting swept by that. Some examples of useful combos include Zapdos baton passing out to Dugtrio as the opponent switches to Blissey or Celebi, and bulky Gengar surviving TTar's pursuit as it switches out to Dugtrio. Despite its very weak stats, it has unique properties due to its incredible ability, so I think Dugtrio has earned its spot here.
Snorlax
Reliant on rest for recover, and taking both spike and sand damage, Snorlax certainly has its limits. More often than not, it will require Magneton to function. However, it plays a key role in being the pokemon that takes special hits well on Physical Offence spam + mag teams. It can function as a decent wincon, and takes on a large portion of the tier. With a powerful self destruct to open up holes in the opposing team, Snorlax is a nice pick for a team. Snorlax continues to be able to take hits from the special attackers of the tier, and then hit harder back. This will always make it at least somewhat decent, so despite it getting chipped easily, I'll keep it here.
Aerodactyl
An effective late game cleaner. With high speed, a spammable STAB, and the flinch chance that every player has a horror story of having their games stolen by, Aerodactyl does its job effectively. However, it is not usually too useful in the early game, and often you'll want to keep it in the back for as long as possible while you try and weaken the opponent's rock resists. It being effective at what it does, but limited outside of that role, and without much diversity in moveslot choices, makes me put Aero at the back of the A ranks.

A- Rank
Magneton
I've ranked Skarmory highly, and so, I will also rank Magneton highly. It plays a key role in enabling physical offence spam teams to function, and also a key role on defensive teams that use it to eliminate the opponent's skarm, thus limiting spikes. While I realise that it is only as good as when it eliminates Skarmory, it can help to take out a weakened Metagross to stop it booming later, and its tbolts definitely hit hard. While this pokemon has a niche purpose, I believe that niche is powerful enough to earn it a place at the top of the a- rank, as it is an essential component of so many teams. It beats out non fire punch Gengar, and can also do things such as take out a weakened Metagross. This pokemon is not diverse, it just does what you want it to, and does it fairly consistently thanks to Magnet Tbolt OHKOing Skarm around 75% of the time. For a lot of teams, Magneton is simply not droppable, it should have a reasonably important place in the rankings to reflect this.
Claydol
Claydol is the most reliable and consistent spinner in the game. Refresh sets are incredibly effective vs TSS builds, where it can be absolutely invaluable. If you pair it with a Magneton, you can run explosion over refresh and put a big dent in something on the way down. While it might not take on DD TTar totally reliably due to a weakness to HP bug, it has a useful rock resistance, and can deal a moderate amount of damage back with stab EQ. This also means that it can switch into Aero rock slide nicely, and not take any spikes damage thanks to levitate. While it might not be good in every matchup, it being a spinner, that's immune to spikes, has nice resistances, and that beats Gengar, makes it consistent enough in its job of hazard removal to earn its a- spot.
Starmie
To begin, I think Starmie's defensive sets are pretty bad and very much inferior to the other defensive waters in the tier. Therefore, I've judged it instead on its offensive potential, which is relatively strong. It certainly has a good matchup vs a good number of offensive teams, and it also provides good utility in rapid spin. However, due to it being fairly frail, and vulnerable to both sand and spikes, realistically this is only going to be a one time spin. It provides nice utility in spin, and good offensive potential, but it has clear responses and a limited window in which to act in, so I've kept it in A-.
Heracross
Heracross has a number of interesting properties that mean it can have a very good matchup vs certain slower teams. It has useful stabs, a potential to run guts to make its power only increase when it gets burned, and decent enough bulk. It has high attack and a strong BP stab in megahorn, which gives it plenty of power. Combined with having just good enough speed, this can make it a very difficult pokemon to deal with for defensive teams. It has some versatility, as it can instead choose to run SubSalac Swarm sets that aim to sweep late game and function as a wincon late game. Chances are everyone has used a very Hera weak team in a tour match at one point or another. Despite that, it isn't very consistent, so while it has a higher ceiling than the other pokemon in this rank, it will have a lower floor.
Jolteon
Jolteon does exactly what you'd expect, and fairly consistently. It's fast, deals out decent damage with thunderbolts, and keeps momentum with baton pass, as well as escaping Dugtrio. It beats Gengar 1v1 and outspeeds it, which is always nice. Jolteon has the interesting trait that it deters the opponent from just firing off a tbolt at your Skarmory, for example, because it might just come in and heal off of it. This requires prediction but it's a unique trait that comes into play in many battles and is definitely worth mentioning. However, also, as you'd expect, it has great difficulty breaking through sp def walls by itself, and will likely need to make use of Baton Pass + other team members to accomplish this. I won't write too much on this since I think we have it in roughly the right place, and its ranking won't change too much even with the revamp.
Flygon
While Flygon is still effective, I believe it's now much less so due to DD ice beam TTar seeing usage in spl. This is a huge hit in viability to its physically defensive set. Choice Band has a strong EQ, but it will require some support to function, such as Magneton trapping Skarm. This pokemon is far from independent. However, it does have a useful Rock resist, while maintaining the spikes/eq immunity. This means that it does actually beat out most DD TTar sets well, it just gets destroyed by ice beam. CB can take any Aero hit and then OHKO in return:
252 Atk Choice Band Flygon Rock Slide vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 292-344 (97 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
I think Flygon is fairly mediocre now thanks to DD ice beam TTar, so it's worth considering dropping to B+, but for now I think it is just good enough for A-.

B+ Rank
Milotic
Gyarados
Moltres
This pokemon has risen a lot since the last ranking, and for good reason. Powerful Fire Blasts and good utility in wisp make it scary for teams that lack Blissey. A strong special attacker with some interesting traits to it, but limited by its speed, and weakness to rock and water attacks, I feel like B+ is a good spot for it.
Forretress
Porygon2
Cloyster
Weezing
Weezing is an interesting pokemon, with access to powerful coverage moves like Fire Blast and Thunder, it also can wisp pokemon on the switch in, and explode on sp def sponges. While it has clear drawbacks, I feel like it having strong offensive pressure means it deserves to be at the back of B+.

B Rank
Venusaur
While Venusaur is a useful lead, it requires some support to function, and as a defensive pokemon, it is held back by vulnerability to sand and spikes, while having to rely on leech seed to heal itself. Leading off with sleep powder and matching up well vs Zapdos and most TTar leads is very nice, but I think this pokemon needs enough support to the point where it is at the start of the B ranks rather than at the back of B+.
Raikou
Regice
Camerupt
Vaporeon
Hariyama
Hariyama has decent bulk, a good rock resist, nice abilities in Guts and Thick fat. With Knock Off, it ensures pokemon that like to switch into it have limited recovery, and can then start firing away with Cross Chops off 120 base attack stat. With useful resistances vs both of TTar's stab moves, good enough bulk, knock off to stop leftovers, and then a powerful fighting STAB, I've put Hariyama at the back of B due to it having a number of fairly unique merits that set it apart from other pokemon in the tier. Below B rank is when I personally start to get skeptical over whether I should be attempting to use this pokemon in OU at all, Hariyama is just above that threshold, so I've reflected this in my rankings.

B- Rank
Houndoom
Ludicolo
Kingdra
Charizard
Smeargle
Donphan
Steelix
Cacturne

C Rank
Medicham
Regirock
Dragonite
Umbreon
Marowak
Dusclops
Omastar
Jynx
Alakazam
Rhydon
Lunatone
Articuno

I've cut my rankings off here, as basically I see Slaking and below as meme mons that people only really use for the novelty value. I'd rather we unrank pokemon like this altogether.
I like your ranking since it offers explanations compared to mine, which is based on data. However, you didn't add a D rank so I am wondering would we need a D rank? (I think E rank is too much)
 
I like your ranking since it offers explanations compared to mine, which is based on data. However, you didn't add a D rank so I am wondering would we need a D rank? (I think E rank is too much)
Typically, the C rank mons are very niche, and a lot of the time, you'll be wondering whether you should even be using them at all. Even towards the back end of B- the pokemon have very limited use. I'd say that generally, anything below C is definitely unviable. The reason why I've removed Slaking down is because I'm certain there is absolutely nothing that those pokemon could do, that another mon in the tier couldn't do better. Generally I'm eager to only have pokemon I would consider using ranked, and from looking at the already weak C mons, D rank would be too weak to actually use.
 
first time thinking of adv since all my teams got randomly deleted hehe

meta
ttar
skarm
gar
jira

ttar obv defines and has defined the game since this tier's inception but for the last 2 years i've realized cb meta (boom in partic) is just way more absurd. he can make a huge impact on every game and i value that more than ttar's sand always impacting every game. i also think ttar got significantly worse in the last 2 years w/ how fast paced the meta got. jira is too dope and still underexplored.

i dont play on playing anymore but if i did my plans would be to put weezing firmly in a rank, reestablish houndoom and machamp show people machamp is lit
 
Some thoughts after getting back into the meta:

Rises

Hariyama should be ranked higher (somewhere around Venu). Fighting type STAB is amazing at breaking cores in the current metagame and Hariyama has the bulk and power to effectively abuse it. Offensive sets (Focus / Cross Chop / HP Ghost / filler) with +atk and investment hit extremely hard and have just enough bulk to 1v1 most common threats (lives 2 Cune Hydros, 2 Zap T-bolts, etc). Most teams do not have a solid switch-in or answer to an offensive fighter of this nature; flying/psychic coverage are fairly uncommon in this metagame and the most common fighting resists cannot switch-in and win (Zapdos loses, Mixmence loses, Gengar loses, Starmie loses, non-Peck Skarm loses). Defensive sets (STAB / Knock Off / Filler / Filler) with lots of bulk are also a real pain to handle; they force mons that rely heavily on Lefties recovery (to offset sand, spikes, important 2/3hkos) to come in and take a Knock. What separates Yama from other fighters is it's ability to actually generate free turns when used defensively (Heracross needs to come in on doubles, telegraphed recovery, etc; it doesn't actually "check" anything), forcing out TTar, fat normals, Milotic, and some Heracross / Cune / Gar. I feel like this is a very underexplored mon in the current metagame and really has a lot to offer to both offensive and defensive builds.
[/hide=Filler moves]Body Slam , Rock Tomb, Rock Slide, Protect, Counter, HP Flying, HP Bug, Rest[/hide]


Snorlax should be ranked higher (around Pert). Lax is a mon that is truly scary and there are few mons I hate facing more. Bulky Curselax is the bane of every defensive team and will win most games if Spikes aren't on it's side of the field. EQ, HP Bug/Steel, and STABless variants are lesser-seen options that deserve more usage and absolutely curbstomb certain checks; there are many heavily-used teams in this metagame that just roll over to Curselax. Additionally, Lax fits wonderfully with cores/mons that provide the best hazard control; double electric (Zap + Mag), Dol, and Starmie all make good teammates. Ojama's teams from classic are good examples of how Lax teams should be built. Fuck MixLax tho, that shit sucks dick.

Drops

Celebi is currently at a low point in ADV (drop 1 slot below Bliss). Zap / Pert commonly run Tox or Roar now, Skarm / Bliss / Forre still just sit in front of defensive sets, and almost every Tar sets abuses it in some form. Leech damage is also very temporary; anything with recovery will inevitably pp stall leech unless Bi forces a punish (ie CM leech or heavy hazard support; not always easy to support) Offensive sets are still revenged very easily, fail to make much progress against Bliss (most bp recipients will still struggle against :blob: and you need to force a free turn to get Dug in safely), and have fewer setup opportunities then in the past (Zap/Pert are much less safe because you'll eat a Tox on the switch). That said, still a very versatile mon and is annoying if your team lacks a way to punish (i guess my argument is every team has a very solid way to punish bi in the current metagame without explicitly trying).


This mon is ass. At +1, it lacks the power to ohko almost every target (requires jolly to outpace 130s), lacks good coverage (pick 2 of HP Fly/Rock, DEdge, Taunt, Rest and lose to w/e you don't hit), and doesn't like newfangled Tox Perts, loads of Zapdos, fat Gar as standard, etc. Throw it down below Ludicolo; it fits best there with Rainmons / Raikou that also need serious matchup advantage to be useful.


This mon is mediocre. I really want it to be good but it isn't. Defensive sets struggle against Tox or Rest Zapdos, don't appreciate the abundance of status absorbers in the current meta (Bliss, Refresh waters, Restmons), and don't actually beat enough things (Gar+Spikes will win, Rachi 1v1s, Bi 1v1s, etc). Offensive sets with bulk are bad because this mon is too slow to effectively punish most switch-ins and has to resort to boom to break any remotely bulky mon. Fast offensive sets are actually usable (outpacing Skarm, Pert, Bliss, and defensive Tar is HUGE) but really lack bulk (3hko'd by offensive gars and zaps) and really need another 10 base speed to catch DDTar and CBGross. It is much worse than the other mons surrounding it and is extremely hard to fit on a team.
 

Gilbert arenas

Rex rhydon
is a Tiering Contributor
Jirachi A+—>S
I really love all the innovation this mon has gone through over the past year. While toxic and wish sets still are very strong, their utility is as low as ever because of how prevolent refresh/spd zap is in this meta. With that said, these sets still do loads against an unprepared team, usually meaning any offensive team without refresh. Even with refresh mons, this thing can still pass wishes well as it’s counters are incredibly passive and counter key threats. With that said, I think those sets pale in comparison to these new sets have been popping up. I couldn’t make this post without talking about boltbeam wish/sub cm. Although I don’t particularly like this set, I have seen many people have tremendous amounts of success with it and logistally its usage makes a lot of sense. With thunder/ice punch you can para or freeze potential counters that are forced to come in prematurely and cm helps you a lot in breaking down bulkier teams with wish or sub keeping you healthy. Next up is the modern mix rachi, which has been thrust into the spotlight because of players like linear spamming it. Although the set needs to rely on dodgy accuracy, if it hits its moves this mon has got literally no switchins. Sure it has countermeasures, but between freezes/paras/confusions, it’s absurd coverage and deceiving quickness this mon is a threat to basically every team. You can ever throw on sub over one of the special attacks and become an even bigger threat to some teams. This brings me to the other jirachi sets, more traditional cm sets are still as effective as ever and we have seen players such as UD use really funky stuff such as monofire, and wish hp fighting. I could go on about this mon all day, but you already get the point. I think the current S rank mons should be Tar/Gar/Skarm/Jira.

Good day.

PS.
Jynx should be higher, lol.
 

Triangles

Big Stew
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
Jirachi A+—>S
Absolutely disagree here. Jirachi should actually drop below Pert and Mence if anything. Wish Protect sets can be a huge momentum loser a lot of the time, allowing free setup from the likes of Cune and CM BP Cele. Alternatively, it can spend an entire game having a Refresh mon like Pert or Clay or just SDef Zap switched into it and exert no offensive pressure. Or you have the third option of just getting trapped by Dug.

Thunder Ice Punch CM is OK actually, but nowhere near good, common, or influential enough to make it a top 5 mon. Also, not running your STAB move seems weird on a bulky CM set. As for the mixed DPunch set, has that move ever hit in a tournament game before? The downside of missing a DPunch is most often bigger than the upside of hitting one, and you're always gonna miss it right when you need to connect.

Rachi has one actual bona fide good set, and that is Superachi. That thing is great in the lategame for cleaning shit, and works very nicely with its typing and still playing the pivot role in the mid-game. Running a much bulkier Modest Superachi which drops speed down to the 240s is really good too, turning the tables on Dug and sometimes doing stuff like soaking a key Meta/Tar hit. Also you can 1v1 non-Twave Bliss in sand if it comes in weakened because more HP means tanking more S-tosses.

However, Superachi being a beast alone does not make Rachi an S-rank mon or anywhere near.

Also, to briefly mention ZF's post, I disagree strongly about dropping Gyara. Sure, it has issues sweeping a lot of the time, but its main strength comes from its amazing defensive typing and utility and Intimidate. In a tier where there are very few Hera switchins, this guy is one of the best. Also, it gets Twave, which is awesome at nailing the typical guys that come into it like Zap, Aero, Gar etc. Also, if you're going Jolly HP Rock, Sub is a really cool 4th to shit on all the guys that try and Tox it.

Finally, I'd like to see Raikou rise up a bit, but I won't go into that in this post as I've literally made a Youtube video about that which will be uploaded soon.
 
Finally, I'd like to see Raikou rise up a bit, but I won't go into that in this post as I've literally made a Youtube video about that which will be uploaded soon.
Look forward to that! (Edit: I see your youtube channel is linked from your profile.)

Raikou on weather changing team to counter TSS ....*drools* (probably the best CM'er -- Leftovers is crucial, cuz, I mean, you got Sub to block Dugtrio...I stick with Thunderbolt whether you go Sunny Day or Rain Dance as the anti-measure to Sand.)

It hits Lax hard and even Blissey hard enough (once it gets boosting) for some pressure situations if Blissey's low enough on health when it tries to counter.

Raikou is decent to look at when teambuilding if you want to try something different in order to combat Zapdos right now too. (Instead of a STABless Sp.D Jirachi, for instance.)

But yea it's pretty much imperative to have a non-Sand environment for it to really shine. That's really what kills its viability IMO.
 
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jira for sure s tier. gyara is mega doodoo. has defensive utility for three switch ins, is weak as fuck and gives u no momentum, then just dies after doing 50 to meta. trash
 

Gilbert arenas

Rex rhydon
is a Tiering Contributor
Yes, gyaras weak as fuck but it thrives a lot vs more offensive teams. Especially ones that use gross as a primary rock resist/physical wall. I think atm, jolly hp rock is the best(and only) set to use. We saw bkc use sub in spl and I think this a good option, however it also means you are losing normal coverage which can hurt you a lot vs some mons. Mag support is obviously nessecary and so is something to break down bulkier mons such as cele/gar/pert which can bother this set. What’s awesome about this set is that you really easily bring in zap/gar, hit it with an hp rock once and then dip for a sweep later in the game. Sure, tar/gross and even pert take +1 eq like it’s nothing but if you are able to weaken these with alternative methods, maybye even catch the former 2 with and eq early in the game gyara can prove to be a massive threat lategame vs the right team. Yes, it isn’t as effective vs fatter teams like ddtar and as good vs offense like mence, however it’s solid speed tier and good coverage can do damage a lot more consistently than you guys are giving it credit for. I also forgot to mention that this mon is a great asset to SD pass teams considering it has decent defensive utility and a good speed tier. I think putting this lower than B is a disgrace to its talents. Also, marowak should see a rise in its rank. Ever since undi used it in SPL, it has been used much more prevolently and for good reason. Without going into too much detail I think maro should see a rise to at least b-. It is an absolute menace to slower teams has underrated bulk(look at rachi/mence/tar/gyara calcs) and is a very slept on rock resist. Not to mention the fact it can ohko basically any mon in the tier after an SD.
 
One mon that looks a bit low to me on the current list is Swampert. Recent innovations in its move sets have taken it from being a boring but effective pivot into a multi faceted defensive mon as well as a surprisingly strong offensive threat and I personally think it's back to being a top 5 mon in the tier. On the defensive side, the old bulky mixed sets are still decent but the advent of refresh sets and the more offensive pivots with a quiet nature to take advantage of the power of hydro pump have allowed it to become much less predictable on this side and take advantage of things that previously hampered it, in the case of refresh, rampant toxic abuse as well as Wisp gar, and in the case of the more offensively invested sets, the ability to seriously hurt spikers like skarm.

What has really put it ahead for me though is the fast offensive focus punch sets that have been cropping up. It's no longer stopped by things like bliss and can lay serious hurt on common counters like Skarm with fast invested hydro pumps, and celebi with its surprisingly strong ice beams. It can also run surprise moves like HP bug and HP grass to take better advantage of celebi and take control of the relatively common pert mirror match. This set does lose the ability to act as a dedicated physically defensive pivot and rock counter but with some back up it's still capable of patching up some defensive holes on offensive teams. Unless your opponent has rest cune or milo, this set will be putting in work.

To comment on the other stuff, jira may not be S but it definitely deserves a rise. It's one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the tier. Each of its CM sets can easily take advantage of the counters of its other sets and the threat of dynamic punch and status makes it that much more unpredictable. Its typing also gives it a unique advantage over similar offensive pokemon as it is quite effective against most of the tier's choice band users. The wishtect sets aren't amazing anymore but it is still the most effective defensive wish passer in the tier from a pure utility standpoint which is worth something.
 

Triangles

Big Stew
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Past SPL Champion
World Defender
Dante Reranks Everything Once Again pt. 5

Ttar-Rank

- This tier has no true S-Rank mons apart from this guy. Tyranitar is truly unique in its combination of versatility, influence over the metagame, and raw unbridled power. DD Tars of all kinds (Lum Naive Mixed, Bulky etc) are constantly threatening to sweep at the drop of a hat, mixed/special sets are ready to trap, lure, and trade blows amazingly well, and both CB and non CB Focus sets are lining up to punch the shit out of a Skarm or a Water and open up some big holes. On top of all the donking, TTar brings Sand to the table, which is enough on its own to merit its place on some teams. That's not to say this mon is broken though. In fact, it's great for the tier's health and its presence keeps a lot of otherwise oppressive stuff in check. That's the beauty of RSE.

A-Rank

A+
- Gar clocks in at number 2. Like Tar above it, it is also amazingly versatile. It can go defensive with Taunt and WoW, run Boom to shit on Blissey and Lax, and fire off all kinds of powerful special attacks with unrivalled coverage. Also, it's one of the few mons that can Sleep stuff, and Sleep is really strong post-Restalk. It's also the only good Ghost in the tier, which means it can block Spin (sorta, it obviously can't hold its own vs the likes of Psychic Star).
- The bird that everyone loves to hate fits in here. It's a weird mon if you think about it, absolutely amazing at one thing but very poor at the rest. That one thing is laying down Spikes. Its god tier typing and physical bulk allow it to come into so much stuff and just lay em down repeatedly. And Spikes are so unbelievably influential and powerful in the RSE meta. This mon has its drawbacks tho - it lets the likes of Gar in for free, can be abused by offensive momentum, and of course gets trapped by Mag. Toxic is a bit less potent than a year ago or so too. Nonetheless, the ability to Spike up and Spike up so damn well will mean this mon is always a beast.
- Meta is just raw fucking power. CB Mashin is properly dangerous, especially with a fortuitous Atk raise. Boom is Boom, i.e. a great move for the offensively inclined team. It's also worth mentioning the defensive strength and great typing (i.e. Rock resistance) of Protect Bulky Meta - it singlehandedly allows shit like that Triple Elec team to function. Mix is still good too. Overall just a high power mon which will always see usage due to its strongth.

- The best and also handsomest Water in the tier. Crocune/Rest Roar Cune can clean house and soak hits, and more Offensive CM sets can tank a few important physical hits while exerting excellent offense. Statistical excellence carries you a long way.
A
- This guy is higher than a lot of people would put it, I think. Well, that's because it's really good and also coming back into the meta more with a different primary role to previously. That role is BPing CM's, where its natural bulk (tanking Dug with Max HP and a bit of Def) and ability to exert good offense while threatening to pass gives it a solid footing. OR you can just say fuck BP, put Psy on there, and donk with Super Cele. SDef and PDef sets are also still very usable, because 100/100/100 defenses are excellent, who'd of thought...
- If you were to put together a team of the 6 mons above this one in my VR, you would come out with a team that's very Zap weak. I think that says a lot about why this guy is good. Electric moves are strong, especially from a fat S-Atk stat like the bird. Real dangerous customer that's also very versatile - can run offensive status sets with 1 or 2 of Twave/Tox, defensive Rest sets, and BP Subs/Agi too (on those new meta smaller chain BP teams with CM pass Cele in particular). Finally, according to recent testing, Restalk is still actually usable on this mon if you pack an Aroma guy and know the mechanics. I'd recommend Modest - doing a shitton of DMG and soaking up some status is nice.
- Pert has beast typing and good stats. As Dan mentioned in the post above, the new offensive Focus set allows it to mitigate the previous issue of Bliss for specially offensive Perts. Monosurf Defensive Pert is great at soaking hits. Endeavour is still very much usable if that's what floats you're boat. I guess it's not higher because each individual set has its issues (the bulky Refresh one has issues exerting its own offense, and the 4 Attacks one is status weak and sometimes misses the bulk and Protect for matchups like DD Mence). Also, HP Grass is everywhere specifically for shitting on this guy. I faced random HP Grass Bliss the other day - I guess that's actually testament to the influence of Pert in the tier.
- Bliss is another very weird mon conceptually. Just like Skarm, its partner in crime. A mon that can just entirely sit on a third of the tier and shut them down for a whole game, yet can also be a complete vacuum for offensive momentum that gets abused. It's a beast tho for sure. When you're building a team, Skarmbliss is the first thing you should think about whether you can beat. By beat, I mean relentlessly drive into the ground too, as if you give Bliss any edge to get in and wall stuff and recover up, that can be a big losing play.
A-
- Trapping is a godsend for the tier. Dug is awesome at removing defensive mons like Bliss to facilitate special offense, along with taking out tricky offensive customers for your stall team to face, such as Ttar and Hera. Of course, Dug has no defense of its own and is hard to get in (you have to double mostly), but the payoff for this mon is so big it's worth a slot more often than not. I'd like to use the final part of this description to endorse Adamant Dug of all kinds, both frail and bulky sets too. The extra DMG goes a long way vs Bliss, Tar, Meta, Cele, and Rachi.
- A lot of people don't like Lax, because the meta is a hostile environment for physical Normal types. However, its good special bulk and Attack stat mean it is very useful on physical offense kinda teams, as it's one of the few mons who can switch into the likes of Star and Zap well. Boom is a sweet ass move too. You can run old school Curselax on the right Mag team too if that's what you're into. Of course, Lax is weak to Sand and Spikes and Gar burns, and gets somewhat abused by Tar and Meta switchins if you can't EQ them. Still very good and deserving of A tho.
- Mence is another of these very versatile, very high statted Pseudo Legendaries. However, it's ranked lower than Tar and Meta because it's weak to status and sand. However, it does have the great utility of a Ground immune and Intimidate, and is one of the tier's few Hera switches. DD Mence is a potent lategame threat, but requires a bit of team support in the shape of lures for Pert and Skarm (and possibly a Mag to trap the latter). Mix is still good, but it's lost the surprise value it used to have in like 2012/13. Band is eh, but still workable.
- Well, I've beat down on this mon in my last post ITT, but it's still A Rank. Superachi is super, Steel typing is awesome defensively, and its offensive coverage is really nice too. Still not a fan of most of the sets people run, but hey, each to their own.

B-Rank

B+
- An offensive powerhouse with its high speed and excellent coverage. Also Spins very nicely, as Gar doesn't want to tank its moves and is also slower than it. However, it's kept down by its frailty, being walled by Bliss, and extreme 4MSS. In a meta where mons could run 6 moves each, Star would be top 5.
- Hera is a very dangerous customer to face with few true switchins. Focus Punch sets have become the standard, and find their home very nicely on physical offenses. It can still sweep from the back too with a Sub Salac set on a Mag team. However, it's just a bit slower than it would like to be, and can't switch into a lot that well.
- Aero is lower than it's ever been before on one of these lists. That's because the meta of very bulky mons with Protect is still keeping it down somewhat. It's still good at being fast and flinching stuff down like a maniac, but it has a harder time doing so in the current meta. I think it's due a resurgence in usage and strength though, as the teams which are heavily designed to counter the current meta (such as CM BP Cele setups) can be somewhat Aero weak. The other thing worth mentioning is that people should possibly consider deviating from Choice Band as the sole set option. Sub Liechi is quite potent, both as a SD Pass Cele recipient (which is where it has traditionally seen use) and otherwise too. There's nothing like revenging a Tar with EQ then following it up with a Slide on the Zap that comes in after.
- You all know how much I love using this mon. In some games, it can be totally god tier and just absolutely clean house. It's one of the few true 'last mons' in RSE, cut from the same cloth as DP Luke. Sub is always a beast move and so is CM. Picking between Hidden Powers is less relevant now too, as Gon is at an all time low, so you can run Grass. Modest Kou does some serious DMG to shit, including the incredibly important Dug oneshot unboosted. In a meta where some Blisses don't run S-Toss, you can just sub up on it and 1v1 it especially out of sand. However, I'm not blowing my load by ranking it in A, as it's not that useful of a mon when you find yourself on the back foot in a game, and is just slightly slightly 'win more' as a closer. Kou isn't doing much vs a +1 DDTar that's got in and set up, for example. That said, Kou is great, and get out and use it. The Youtube video on it will come soon, I promise.
- Mag is a really weird mon to rank. It is of course absolutely shite in a vacuum because it has no meaningful base stats and dies to everything. However, Skarm is a thing, which will give Mag an everlasting niche in the meta of trapping it and killing it, and that's pretty much all it does. Mag is notable for facilitating a whole archetype of teams; which is basically 5 mons that would be shit on by the average Skarm team but otherwise have an above average power level, and a Mag to patch up the big bird-shaped hole. One-dimensional, but does its job.
B
- Clay has seen a lot of use in recent times because of the whole Refresh thing and its ability to shit on a lot of the teams of 1 year ago pretty comprehensively by keeping Spikes off the field and itself healthy. However, it finds itself this low because it exerts no offensive momentum of its own, and can let a lot of stuff in easily to boost up on it. It's great vs TSS, but pretty poor vs most other stuff.
- Jolt is the other fastest mon in the tier. Volt Absorb is a great ability for Gar and Zapbird, and drypassing is great for newer players like crayon pop who are too incompetent to double. Roar Spikes shuffling is nice offensive utility, and you can also Roar out some stuff in a pinch. However, it rolls over to physical hits, and hates being paralyzed, and to a lesser extent poisoned or burned, which limits its overall utility.
- This dude is pretty underappreciated for what it does. A lot of newer gen players have the mindset of a DD mon being an offensive sweeper with that kind of playstyle. However, in reality that side of Gyara plays second fiddle to its defensive pivoting role, aided by its excellent ability and unique defensive typing. Tanking important big hits can be just as good as dishing them out.
- The Iceman is a forgotten danger. Once a popular choice as a specially defensive pivot able to spread status, fire off Ice Beams, and Boom, it doesn't see much use now, and as to why, that's sort of beyond me to answer. Sure, it's weak to all 3 of the holy trinity of TSS, but its ability to soak important hits and trade back, along with Twaving and neutering all its primary switchins of Meta, Tar, and Lax, give it a valuable niche. It's also good on CM dedicated teams to pop on a Blissey, or mindgame it into switching out on you and clattering something with Ice Beam.
- Moltres is quite the new age mon. Fire STAB and WoW are both very powerful things with sparse distribution, and do a number on most things in the tier not named Bliss. This mon is also fast enough to make it as an offensive presence in the tier. I guess it's this low as it can be hard to fit onto some teams, gets sat on by Bliss, and isn't all that bulky.
- P2 is usable because Dug is so good. It facilitates the most Dug weak of teams with its presence. It's also good at coming into and tanking some physical hits from the likes of Mence and Aero with its decent bulk, and T-Waving its switches. However, it often has issues because it's a momentum loser, because it just lets stuff like Lax in again and again. P2 teams are notoriously bad vs old school Curselax setups, so you have to make sure your team is really well equipped for that kind of thing if you're all in on using this guy.
B-
- Gon is at an all time low right now. That's because it has a lot of trouble threatening the bulkier teams that are in vogue right now, with the advents of Refresh Dol and Pert and high Skarmbliss usage. It also isn't particularly good vs a lot of heavier mixed offenses. This mon actually initially died down in usage because of IB DD Tar (which is rarer now), but it isn't that good anyways. For Gon to work now, I think people need to figure out something new - maybe CB is due a return on Mag teams, or old school ass Screech.
- Cloy, the second best spiker of the tier, but with a huge gap between it and Skarm. It finds its role on more offensive setups than Skarm, and that's because it is better at producing its own offense and momentum, as it threatens Boom and decently powerful Special attacks. This mon can spin in theory, but it is terrible at it because of its awful defensive typing and weakness to TSS. It's better just throwing a layer up, and then attacking or booming.
- This guy is a bit newer, and has seen a recent rise in popularity. A 'tanky' fighter role is decent currently because Fighting STAB is pretty good. Knock Off is also great for neutralising a lot of Yama's Lefties-reliant defensive switchins. This guy still has some weaknesses tho - you'll notice I put the word 'tanky' in inverted commas earlier here, and that's because Fighting is not a good defensive typing, it can only switch in a few times to most stuff, and Rest is questionable recovery due to its momentum loss.
- Hey, it's Weezing! People like UD love Weezing because WoW is so damn good, and so is Boom, and so is being a levitating Poison type which comes into Skarm again and again. However, I've put it kinda lower because it has a hard time against special hits, and also people now kinda know what this guy does more, which makes certain turns more choreographed.
- Sleep is an excellent status, and Leech Seed is an amazing move. That's what keeps Saur functional in this tier. It's seen a lot specifically in the lead slot because it's a great early sleep move user. However, my issue with it is that after it's done sleeping something it can't actually do much for itself, and isn't statistically up to scratch with the tier's big boys.
- Forry kinda blows now. You have to be so rigid and linear (not referring to Linear here) in your building with it, i.e having a Pursuit Tar, because Gar Spikes teams otherwise just shit on it entirely. And they still kinda do too, because SDef Gar is geared to survive a Pursuit, and at that point the Forry team is neutralised, it's too late to come back. Forry also isn't too good vs offense, because it allows setup so easily and setting up Spikes can put you a few turns behind and on the back foot. I remember a game in SPL 5 vs Rey where he switched his Forry into my Lax and I just Cursed up on it for free, and did some donking before his Spikes could even properly kick in. I also remember another game in SPL 5 vs Danilo where I was the unfortunate fuck with the Forry, and he literally just Hypno'd my Pursuit Tar with Gar and that was that, I couldn't spin them or get back in the game. Forry, sucking ass since its invention.
- Milo is the Refresh mon that couldn't. It is kind of a momentum vacuum at times, like a Claydol which can't spin and steps on Spikes. It also doesn't have the bulk of Cune or Pert. However, it stays out of C-rank because just occasionally you find that one golden matchup vs that Mixmence offense where Milo just goes to the house. Hypnosis need to come back into vogue too, as that might be the best thing it can do RN.

C-Rank

C+
- Vap is good at Wishing, good at BPing all kinds of things (dry slowpass, full chain, Subs, even Curses), good at doing some deceptively strong DMG with Hydro / IB, but shit at being an actual fucking bulky water. It's fun and cute tho, which is all that really matters in life, especially if you're a girl gamer like Posho .
- Hound could die from a light slap from any physical mon. However, it once again has the golden tickets of STAB Fire, WoW, and Pursuit/Crunch. It can kill the important target of Gar, and also really punish its switchins if it gets in safely somehow, but this is a very high risk high reward mon.
- Phan is an amazing physical tank. It's in C because it needs Pursuit support to Spin as it can't meaningfully break Gar itself (HP Ghost sacrifices an important moveslot, one of Toxic or Protect), and also dies to any special hit. Like a lot of the other C mons, it is a lop sided guy that fills a specific niche.
- Boom is a really really good move, and it is what keeps Regirock in contention. Curse Boom is great at luring waters in on a heavy physical offense, and pure Rock typing and base 200 DEF has some good resistances and neutral typing matchups that allow you to come in and ply your trade. However, he can go horribly wrong if you boom into a Protect or Gar double.
- Another one-dimensional mon here. Can do some real work and threaten from the lead slot, and sleep something important. However, Jynx will have a very hard time switching into something, and you sometimes have to risk hitting an LK on Lax/Meta, which can go wrong easily.
C
-The 2 Rain sweepers are right next to each other here. Kingdra comes just above because of its better defensive typing and functionality as a pure rain sweeper.
- Ludi offers a niche over Kingdra with Miracle Seed HP Grass, which allows you to meaningfully hurt opposing waters. It can also go defensive with Leech Seed Rain Dance, as a weather resetter kinda role for the team that wants it.
- Smear is good at Spiking and Sporing, but it's often a one and done kind of deal. If you can maintain great offensive momentum, Smear teams can be super potent, but the downside is that if Smear dies early as it often does then then they reveal the likes of Spin Star or Dol, you're often behind. It would go amiss not to mention its role on Bellypass too - that archetype is not too good but gets some wins.
- The Big Bad Bactrian has a niche carved out for it in the tier because of its unique defensive typing and ability to switch into Zap, Gar, and Jolt a few times and fire off some strong STAB moves or Boom in return. However, it is slow as shit, frail as shit, and Duggable as shit. It can work on just the right team, but you will be leaving some defensive holes open which can be exploited.
C-
- Rhydon is something quite a lot of players don't really consider. In my eyes at least, it is a Marowak with slightly less Atk in exchange for a better typing (dual stab, Normal + Fly resist) and better physical bulk too. With some Para support, Rhydon can really be potent.
- The role of a really fast and frail special attacker is probably done better by Starmie or something, but on the other hand this guy is more powerful in Satk, speed ties with Dug making trapping it risky, and has a different type of coverage with Psy/Fire/Grass. Of course, it's walled by Bliss and dies to any physical hit, making it a dangerous mon to employ. Tricking a Band is a cool niche tho, worth considering (until CB meta switches into you).
- Most powerful attacker in the tier, with good offensive typing and coverage to boot. However, the combination of just too slow to outspeed the important shit like Mence and too frail to tank meaningful hits is not conducive to a good mon. Maybe some Para support or a mechanism to get this guy in safely repeatedly like passing it a Sub with Zap is enough to make this mon work somewhat, but building with it leaves some teams with defensive flaws.
- I know that Undis and quite a few others really strongly advocate this mon, but it just doesn't really do it for me. It's too damn slow, and not actually as bulky as above posters have made out, certainly not bulky enough to switch into stuff, maybe to tank a hit in a 1v1. Great BP Recipient though, which keeps it out of the purgatory of D-Rank.

D-Rank
Everything else

Ass Tier
- This mon is not actually worth using. You're gonna find yourself subbing up 5 times only for Sand Veil to not actually kick in, all while exerting no independent offense.
(outside of full BP chains) - Trap Passing is so frustrating and unreliable, and this can be a complete dead teamslot. I wish this would work as it's a cool (edgelord) looking mon, but it just really doesn't.
- Imagine a meta where the one move that literally entirely neutralises every single thing this mon can do is top 5 in move usage. On top of that, almost every team has the inbuilt type synergy to shit on Slaking even if Protect didn't exist. Poor Slaking.
 

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