All Buffs and Nerfs in Pokemon Scarlet/Violet

Won't most of these be undone with Home? We don't know that it'll remove past gen moves.
Leakers have suggested that old moves are now getting wiped as a matter of course.

As for Groudon... nah, it's still a defensive behemoth and it's the only ~680 BST mon that gets spikes, making it the best hazard setter in the game in a tier where defoggers will be pretty hard to come by. Not to mention sun support for your team is good and having two otherwise very strong mons providing it is better, especially in a tier where Kyogre is going to be a massive threat.
 
Do we have details regarding Sharpness (moves boosted, multiplier)?
Also is it possible for Hisui Samurott to learn Oshawott egg moves (sacred sword, knock off)? (Was it possible during SwSh?)
Thank you.
hisuian_samurott___ceaseless_edge_by_ishmam_df0fpup-pre.jpg
 
Leakers have suggested that old moves are now getting wiped as a matter of course.
centro is not a leaker. i feel like a broken record saying this today but they are the only source of the claim and as they are not a leaker, and also notoriously untrustworthy, should not really be paid much mind.

Also is it possible for Hisui Samurott to learn Oshawott egg moves (sacred sword, knock off)? (Was it possible during SwSh?)
Thank you.
Can't comment on HRott's porential to have access to Oshawott's egg moves, but for the swsh question, none of the unova starters were available in gen8 swsh.
 
centro is not a leaker. i feel like a broken record saying this today but they are the only source of the claim and as they are not a leaker, and also notoriously untrustworthy, should not really be paid much mind.
Centro should barely be trusted, i've had my own personal talks with him and he's all up for the attention grabbing and praise for his "quick leaks", but i'm not here to diss him, everyone knows what he does.

On a more on-topic talk, i've been out of competitive since SM but all these changes are making me excited for SV competitive might come back again
 
According to another datamine, they also purged some moves. See https://pastebin.com/eReqHWpi

Unfortunately, this page also lists moves that were cut from SwSh (none of which return in gen9), so I made a list of all moves that were actively purged in gen9:

Submission
Skull Bash
Hyper Fang
Mind Reader
Vital Throw
Hail
Nature Power
Magic Coat
Revenge
Grudge
Aromatherapy
Doom Desire
Psycho Shift
Autotomize
Dual Chop
Leaf Tornado
Mat Block
Crafty Shield
Flower Shield
Venom Drench
Powder
Power-Up Punch
Laser Focus
Gear Up
Dragon Hammer
Eternabeam
 

RoiDadadou

Banned deucer.
According to another datamine, they also purged some moves. See https://pastebin.com/eReqHWpi

Unfortunately, this page also lists moves that were cut from SwSh (none of which return in gen9), so I made a list of all moves that were actively purged in gen9:

Submission
Skull Bash
Hyper Fang
Mind Reader
Vital Throw
Hail
Nature Power
Magic Coat
Revenge
Grudge
Aromatherapy
Doom Desire
Psycho Shift
Autotomize
Dual Chop
Leaf Tornado
Mat Block
Crafty Shield
Flower Shield
Venom Drench
Powder
Power-Up Punch
Laser Focus
Gear Up
Dragon Hammer
Eternabeam
On the doc.
Del. Moves.
 
centro is not a leaker. i feel like a broken record saying this today but they are the only source of the claim and as they are not a leaker, and also notoriously untrustworthy, should not really be paid much mind.
I agree with you, tho this isn’t an unreasonable assumption because they already wiped moves on transfer to BDSP and PLA
 
I agree with you, tho this isn’t an unreasonable assumption because they already wiped moves on transfer to BDSP and PLA
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spoilers-scarlet-violet-ou-discussion.3710554/post-9391969

Linked in my comment there is another comment that explains why things happened with both games. Basically, that explanation (and the fact wipes are reverted/undone) when a mon from those games returns to HOME just makes me think we shouldn't take those games as a precedent right now.
 

Guard

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Made this list for the AG discord, figured it might be handy to post here

Code:
New Relevant Moves On Old Pokémon + Relevant Moves On New Pokémon

Mewtwo: Power Gem, Earth Power
Groudon: Spikes, Crunch, Will-O-Wisp, Rock Blast, Body Press
Rayquaza: U-turn, Stealth Rock
Dialga: Trick, Focus Blast
Palkia: Trick
Heatran: Power Gem
Cresselia: Lunar Blessing
Arceus: Healing Wish, Hydro Pump, Taunt, Imprison, Bulk Up, Dragon Dance, Flare Blitz, Power Gem, Gunk Shot, Heavy Slam, Foul Play, Stored Power, Hex, Hurricane, Body Press (lost Whirlpool)
Landorus: Sandsear Storm, Taunt, Nasty Plot
Magearna: Spikes
Zacian: Poison Jab, Trailblaze (lost Assurance)
Zamazenta: Body Press
Eternatus: Outrage, Gunk Shot, Fire Blast, Sunny Day, Fire Spin
Urshifu: Swords Dance
Zarude: Swords Dance
Regieleki: Charge Beam, Tera Blast (lost Rising Voltage)

Palafin: Wave Crash, Liquidation, Aqua Jet, Jet Punch, Flip Turn, Ice Punch, Close Combat, Outrage, Bulk Up
Flutter Mane: Shadow Ball, Moonblast, Power Gem, Mystical Fire, Calm Mind, Psyshock, Taunt
Roaring Moon: Dragon Dance, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Crunch, Roost, U-turn, Iron Head, Stone Edge
Iron Bundle: Ice Beam, Hydro Pump, Freeze Dry, Flip Turn, U-turn
Iron Valiant: Swords Dance, Close Combat, Spirit Break, Zen Headbutt, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Calm Mind, Moonblast, Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Thunderbolt, Psyshock, Psychic, Taunt
Chien-Pao: Swords Dance, Icicle Crash, Ice Spinner, Crunch, Sucker Punch, Ice Shard, Sacred Sword, Taunt, Recover
Chi-Yu: Nasty Plot, Dark Pulse, Lava Plume, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Taunt, Psychic
Koraidon: Swords Dance, Collision Course, Close Combat, Outrage, Dragon Claw, Flare Blitz, U-turn, Drain Punch, Taunt, Bulk Up, Iron Head, Heavy Slam, Wild Charge
Miraidon: Calm Mind, Electro Drift, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Solar Beam, Overheat, Volt Switch, U-turn, Parabolic Charge, Taunt, Flash Cannon, Power Gem
 
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spoilers-scarlet-violet-ou-discussion.3710554/post-9391969

Linked in my comment there is another comment that explains why things happened with both games. Basically, that explanation (and the fact wipes are reverted/undone) when a mon from those games returns to HOME just makes me think we shouldn't take those games as a precedent right now.
I think they'll continue with this system, unfortunately. The thing is, dummying out removed moves was not enough. There were three "clobber moves", namely Tail Glow, Psycho Boost and Heart Swap. What do these moves have in common:
a) They had no legal userbase in SwSh
b) There were a couple of mons that could obtain them legally through transferring.
c) They were not intended to be removed indefinitely from the series.
For some reason, prior to the Crown Tundra update, these moves were not clickable in battle, but they were not dummied out either. Turns out GF though they could avoid the burden of programming them in if they had no legal userbase. Lazy bastards.

Dummying out removed moves is only viable if the move is intended to be removed from all Pokemon indefitely, or if they were always super easy to obtain in the games they were available. Having the game encourage you to remove Psycho Boost from Pokemon XD Lugia just to learn that it is actually usable when Deoxys is patched in is the epitome of painful.

Then we had BDSP, which due to improper outsourcing probably lacked a gazilion of moves and was also rich on exploits (it also reintroduced a couple of moves to be more faithful. And Unown). Gamefreak obviously wants to do more outsourcing in the future, and doesn't want to educate themselves on how to outsource properly.

Not to mention that the system of checking battle readyness was beyond clunky.

Do I like this? Hell no! Pokemon should be able to retain their moves upon transferring. Any move that isn't meant to be removed from the series should be implemented, regardless if has a userbase. Mainline games from the same generation should be cross competible and have identical species and move libraries. And the proper way of handling battle readyness is to make the game compute if all Pokemon have legal movesets every time you actually enter a battle facility, and explicitly tell what moves are illegal if a Pokemon runs illegal moves.

And ideally, Dexit would be revoked and when a new generation rolls, all mainline games (not counting LA and LGPE) from gen8 and on get a competibility patch so that all newer Pokemon and moves can be used within older generations.
 
First impression on the Greninja/Cinderace nerfs is they are probably going to be relagated to becoming Choice Band/Spec nukes.

Its weird to me though that Protean, Libero and Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield all got (rightfully) nerfed but Speed Boost was apparently left unchanged.

Rayqaza now gets U-Turn and Stealth Rocks.

Battle Bond got a rework too. It no longers transforms Greninja/Water shuriken. Now gives a +1 to Atk/SpA/Spd when it triggers, once per battle.
I'm assuming that Battle Bond is no longer a pseudo-Mega Evolution (with the flat stats hike) and it only gives those +1 Stats?
 
Last edited:

Samtendo09

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Speed Boost was apparently left unchanged.
Speed Boost itself is a non-issue, since while Speed is such an important stat in most scenarios, almost none of the Pokémon that have it are overpowered threats. It caused issues with Baton Pass, but Baton Pass itself is the problem overall.

The only Pokémon that proved broken at some point with this Ability is Blaziken, not helping that it’s currently discarded Mega Evolution also have this Ability. It wasn’t until SwSh Crown Tundra that Blaziken eventually dropped back to OU, and then UUBL, due to new threats able to handle it.
 
First impression on the Greninja/Cinderace nerfs is they are probably going to be relagated to becoming Choice Band/Spec nukes.

Its weird to me though that Protean, Libero and Intrepid Sword/Dauntless Shield all got (rightfully) nerfed but Speed Boost was apparently left unchanged.
Is Speed Boost actually broken? Which is a dumb-ass question, I know, but look at it. Protean etc appears on 3 fully-evolved mons (Kecleon, Greninja, and Cinderace) and 2 of those are broken AF in basically every format. Speed Boost is on Blaziken, Sharpedo, Scolipede, Yanmega, and Ninjask. None of those is OU ATM(and traditionally only Blaziken was busted).

In VGC(which we know GF balances around), Speed Boost is a set-up ability that takes time, while Protean is an immediate power boost and defensive utility. Yes, in formats with Baton Pass it's broken, but otherwise, GF could reasonably conclude that Speed Boost doesn't actually help that much.
 
Incidentally, none of the speed boost users saw competitive play in VGC, because glass cannon pokemon need to be VERY overpowered to see play or have utility (see, Kartana being a tailwind setter on top of nuking staples like kyogre or the tapus), and if you do require a turn to setup to even get going, good chance you're not going to see use in that much faster paced metagame.

And people who are still thinking they "nerfed stall cause of smogon", no, the nerf was cause of timer stalling in BSS/VGC, a sadly popular wincon.
 
Can we do an even more insulting treatment for Talonflame? Going from essential OU in gen6 to a pokemon that loses its cheat ability one gen later, so the players say to themselves ok Defensive talonflame lets go !! And now in gen9 they remove defog but he earns rain dance, I repeat RAIN DANCE!!! A F***ing fire bird can now put the rain on the field... Game Freak why did you create this poke if you nerf it every gen ??
Rain Dance + Hurricane perhaps, with STAB Fire for Ferrothorn, Oh wait Ferrothorn has been Dexited, never mind.
 
Question.

Because of Pokemon Home, shouldn't it be possible to transfer Pokemon that previously had legal movepools into Scarlet/Violet? Like, Bisharp can no longer learn Knock Off, but you could theoretically transfer one over that has Knock Off, right?

I think the only cases where the move is completely lost is if it were completely cut from the game, or a weird illegal cross-generational moveset, unless I'm mistaken.
 
Question.

Because of Pokemon Home, shouldn't it be possible to transfer Pokemon that previously had legal movepools into Scarlet/Violet? Like, Bisharp can no longer learn Knock Off, but you could theoretically transfer one over that has Knock Off, right?

I think the only cases where the move is completely lost is if it were completely cut from the game, or a weird illegal cross-generational moveset, unless I'm mistaken.
No, Home will replace the moves with Lv Up moves if it can’t learn it naturally in SV.
 

TyCarter

Tough Scene
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Rip all the people who were planning on running wish+softboil blissey as copium for recovery moves pp nerf.
 
Question.

Because of Pokemon Home, shouldn't it be possible to transfer Pokemon that previously had legal movepools into Scarlet/Violet? Like, Bisharp can no longer learn Knock Off, but you could theoretically transfer one over that has Knock Off, right?

I think the only cases where the move is completely lost is if it were completely cut from the game, or a weird illegal cross-generational moveset, unless I'm mistaken.
No, Home will replace the moves with Lv Up moves if it can’t learn it naturally in SV.
I'd point that all of this is still based on a proofless post from Centro.
No other leaker has confirmed this, since there's no actual way to know until Home actually updates.

It is *possible* that transfers will work like in BDSP/LA/SwSh where the pokemon gets given a new dedicated moveset upon reaching SV.
It's also possible that they will work same as going from gen 7 / Let's go to SwSh and maintain their moveset (with unavailable moves being market as "unusable").

For now, no reason to think about it.
 
Apparently this is the full list of moves boosted by Sharpness:

Cut
Razor Leaf
Slash
Fury Cutter
Air Cutter
Aerial Ace
Leaf Blade
Night Slash
Air Slash
X-Scissor
Psycho Cut
Cross Poison
Sacred Sword
Razor Shell
Solar Blade
Behemoth Blade
Stone Axe
Ceaseless Edge
Population Bomb
Kowtow Cleave
Bitter Blade
Aqua Cutter
 

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