AAA Almost Any Ability (Sample teams @ post #337!)

Isaiah

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TIERING UPDATES
Hi :] the council has prepared a survey to gauge community opinions on various issues before our next set of tiering actions. Anyone with a Smogon account can participate, and since it's already been a while after the Kickoff tour and Ghosting tour, well...a ghosting tournament, we won't have any special "qualified" response section.

The plan is to keep the survey open for around one week, until January 8th @ 10 PM GMT -6.

Regarding Fur Coat and Ice Scales: This gen has been unlike any other since we freed two of the most defensive possible abilities (we also freed Fluffy, but that's a separate thing). While we've been able to maintain a relatively high power level as a result of Pokemon being tankier than usual as empowered by these abilities, it should also be noted that in the event of a Fur Coat and Ice Scales ban, the council would more than likely tier fairly aggressively to return the metagame to a state of balance. For instance, a lot of the Pokemon listed for responses in the survey would probably find their way onto a ban or suspect slate in a metagame without Fur Coat and Ice Scales, simply because a lot of their counterplay would cease to exist, replaced by less reliable means (such as Ruin abilities and Regenerator).

You can access the survey by clicking this message :]

Also...

SAMPLE TEAM SUBMISSIONS ARE NOW OPEN!
You know the drill. Post your submissions in this thread with a brief statement of why you feel it would be a great sample. Generally, we want sample teams to be good options for "pick and play", AKA anyone should be able to look at your team/team description and get a general idea of how to use it, even without a ton of AAA experience. Keep that in mind when posting your submissions! Submissions will be open for around 2 weeks or however long it takes to get a good number of them--whichever comes first. We'll also be looking at the OM Bazaar, so if your team is already there, no need to submit it again :P
 
:iron valiant: :dragapult: :Corviknight: :Garganacl: :garchomp: :Iron moth:

I know that Buk already posted this team in the bazaar but I also always like to give more of a mon-by-mon breakdown for the sample teams I make so I’m posting it again here to do just that. As Buk said in his post this team is built around getting the 2 broken mixed attackers, valiant and pult, in as much as possible through our pivots.

:iron valiant: This mon is just broken right now to be honest, if you can get it in safely with the multiple pivots on this team (which you should easily be able to do) then it will eventually claim a kill. The move choice on this mon though could be changed a little bit since knock off+shadow ball isn’t 100% necessary. We used this moveset to guaranteed beat gholdengo but either knock off or shadow ball can probably be replaced with one of valiants million other coverage moves. The ev’s on this mon are also kinda specific, it’s ev’d to have a 99.6% chance to kill corv with close combat and the rest is put into speed and special attack.

:dragapult: Mixed MGLO pult is officially my new favorite pult set now, as said above this is one of the 2 most broken mixed attackers in the tier and can easily run away with the game. As shown with our round 1 for the ghosting tour, pult is a force to be reckoned with both early and late game. Even if it can’t break something it can easily wisp it for later or uturn in one of our other mons that can beat it. The ev’s here are to always ohko non bulky iron moth and to have some extra hex damage.

:corviknight: This mon is just as good as it was last gen, not too much to say about it other than the obvious. It’s a good glue mon and an amazing special wall, pretty easily beating most special non-fire type breakers. This is also ev’d to not lose to 52 attack life orb valiant with leftovers.

:Garganacl: When I first suggested that we use fur coat on Garganacl Buk went crazy and almost immediately changed it to ice scales and made corv fur coat, then he tested it some and realized I was right and tried to make it seem like fur coat garg was his idea. Jokes aside though fur coat garg is an amazing blanket physical wall, beating a large amount of physical attackers like ceruledge, dragonite, and baxcalibur.

:garchomp: Remember when I said that corv beat every non-fire type special attacker? Well this beats the fire types that beat corv. Not too much else to say here other than the fact that it also provides amazing hazard support to help our already crazy breakers put even more pressure on opposing walls. This is never 2hko’d by +1 fiery dance moth as well which is a godsend to this team.

:iron moth: Last but not least we have iron moth, this is a pretty strong mon even with 0 special attack investment. Although the main reason that we ran it here is to help pivot in either pult or valiant, as well as act as a bundle check. Toxic spikes also provides a lot of utility for this team, it can provide chip for valiant to do it’s thing and also powers up pult’s hex to make it much more insane.
 

Heracross2.0

And I was the MVP. You were all thinking it!
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:roaring moon: :iron bundle: :corviknight: :florges: :garchomp: :gholdengo:

I believe sample teams should be built to survive potential bans; assuming a FurScales suspect where both are banned + other bans such as Iron Vailant taking place shortly after, a sample team should remain usable until at least the next time samples are requested. With that being said, here's my submission.

Sword Of Ruin Roaring Moon + Stakeout Iron Bundle form a devastating offensive core that hits both sides of the spectrum and takes advantage of the lack of decent Dark and Water resists, respectively, in the meta. SpDef WBB Corv is a solid defensive mon that switches into all the relevant Fire-types like Iron Moth, Volcarona, and Ceruledge without any major issue, and the SpDef makes sure that offensive Gholdengo sets don't plow through the team. Fluffy Florges checks physical attackers like Dragonite and Great Tusk without any major issue, and because Fluffy actually has a drawback, it will most likely remain legal in case Fur Coat is banned. Regen Garchomp is a good lead that helps set entry hazards early on to create pressure that can be abused by smart doubles into the main breakers of the team, and gives the team counterplay vs some ladder traps like Ice Scales Eviolite BU users. Finally, Ice Scales Gholdengo is an interesting tech for special attackers; since Fire-types are already covered by Corvid, IS Gholdengo covers the rest of them, including the rare Shadow Ball Iron Valiant. This one is the most at risk for being removed, but if IS is banned then you can make this Vessel Of Ruin.

Pretty strong team in tests, only loses to broken stuff like Iron Valiant and Hadron Dragapult which should be going soon anyway so there isn't much to worry about.
 

Isaiah

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:roaring moon: :iron bundle: :corviknight: :florges: :garchomp: :gholdengo:

I believe sample teams should be built to survive potential bans; assuming a FurScales suspect where both are banned + other bans such as Iron Vailant taking place shortly after, a sample team should remain usable until at least the next time samples are requested. With that being said, here's my submission.

Sword Of Ruin Roaring Moon + Stakeout Iron Bundle form a devastating offensive core that hits both sides of the spectrum and takes advantage of the lack of decent Dark and Water resists, respectively, in the meta. SpDef WBB Corv is a solid defensive mon that switches into all the relevant Fire-types like Iron Moth, Volcarona, and Ceruledge without any major issue, and the SpDef makes sure that offensive Gholdengo sets don't plow through the team. Fluffy Florges checks physical attackers like Dragonite and Great Tusk without any major issue, and because Fluffy actually has a drawback, it will most likely remain legal in case Fur Coat is banned. Regen Garchomp is a good lead that helps set entry hazards early on to create pressure that can be abused by smart doubles into the main breakers of the team, and gives the team counterplay vs some ladder traps like Ice Scales Eviolite BU users. Finally, Ice Scales Gholdengo is an interesting tech for special attackers; since Fire-types are already covered by Corvid, IS Gholdengo covers the rest of them, including the rare Shadow Ball Iron Valiant. This one is the most at risk for being removed, but if IS is banned then you can make this Vessel Of Ruin.

Pretty strong team in tests, only loses to broken stuff like Iron Valiant and Hadron Dragapult which should be going soon anyway so there isn't much to worry about.
If this gets accepted, Florges will probably be changed to Fur Coat. I understand wanting to preserve in case of bans, but considering that your team already has watchlisted stuff like Stakeout, Iron Bundle, and Ice Scales, there's not much ground left to justify nerfing the Florges (also, sample teams are meant to represent w/e the relative meta is at the time they're uploaded, not "what if...?" ones).
 
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i did it. heres the stupid ass team: https://pokepast.es/c8ddc42180bd7bd8 i really need a better regen mon for this team cos its gonna be considered a defensive team instead w scream tail and all
This is like bulky offense with no real way of beating GaG Roar Skeledirge

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Sample Team Submission

:Dragapult: :Iron_Valiant: :Gholdengo: :Corviknight: :Ting-lu: :Iron_Moth:
https://pokepast.es/86f8976060084932

The main gist of the team is to use pivoters like Iron Moth, Dragapult, and Corviknight to swap in to your Iron Valiant while keeping up pressure with hazards.

:Dragapult:

Wisp spreader, also is the fastest mon in the meta as of now. Dishes out heavy damage with Draco + Hex, further supported by MGLO. Can also frequently pivot into Iron Valiant on checks such as Clodsire (if you're using Zen Headbutt) and Blissey. Can also go for a Naive nature if you want to use Dragon Darts over Draco Meteor.

:Iron_Valiant:

Main breaker of the team, has CC for Blissey and Ice Scales Corvi, has TBolt for non-regenvest Dondozo (can be swapped for Zeadbutt for Clodsire and Iron Moth)

:Gholdengo:

Huge wincon for the team, easily swaps in on most physical attackers like Baxcalibur, Dragonite, and can easily swap in on Corviknight, as it always has. Needs to be weary of Iron Moth, Dragapult, and Great Tusk.

:Corviknight:
Your everyday defogger, should be used as physical attacker bait for Gholdengo, otherwise acts as a slow pivot to Iron Valiant.

:Ting-lu:
An incredibly bulky physical that can also eat special hits, has regenerator for some very much needed longevity, also sets up hazards and phases w/ whirlwind.

:Iron_Moth:
Iron Bundle counter; also deals with Volcarona and Gholdengo. Has whirlwind to phase unprotected mons into Toxic Spikes and to force out Volcaronas who may have setup QDs, other Iron Moths and WBB Gholdengo. Can swap whirlwind for U-turn for more pivoting into Iron Valiant if desired. Must be kept healthy.

You also play around with mons like Stakeout Tusk, or Hadron Specs Sandy Shocks over Iron Valiant. This team is very flexible with its breaker options and can break most other styles of play depending on how you play. Genera, threats for this team are: :Iron_Hands:, :Dragapult:, :Iron_Valiant:, :Great_Tusk:, and sometimes :Volcarona:.
 
This is like bulky offense with no real way of beating GaG Roar Skeledirge

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Sample Team Submission

:Dragapult: :Iron_Valiant: :Gholdengo: :Corviknight: :Ting-lu: :Iron_Moth:
https://pokepast.es/86f8976060084932

The main gist of the team is to use pivoters like Iron Moth, Dragapult, and Corviknight to swap in to your Iron Valiant while keeping up pressure with hazards.

:Dragapult:

Wisp spreader, also is the fastest mon in the meta as of now. Dishes out heavy damage with Draco + Hex, further supported by MGLO. Can also frequently pivot into Iron Valiant on checks such as Clodsire (if you're using Zen Headbutt) and Blissey. Can also go for a Naive nature if you want to use Dragon Darts over Draco Meteor.

:Iron_Valiant:

Main breaker of the team, has CC for Blissey and Ice Scales Corvi, has TBolt for non-regenvest Dondozo (can be swapped for Zeadbutt for Clodsire and Iron Moth)

:Gholdengo:

Huge wincon for the team, easily swaps in on most physical attackers like Baxcalibur, Dragonite, and can easily swap in on Corviknight, as it always has. Needs to be weary of Iron Moth, Dragapult, and Great Tusk.

:Corviknight:
Your everyday defogger, should be used as physical attacker bait for Gholdengo, otherwise acts as a slow pivot to Iron Valiant.

:Ting-lu:
An incredibly bulky physical that can also eat special hits, has regenerator for some very much needed longevity, also sets up hazards and phases w/ whirlwind.

:Iron_Moth:
Iron Bundle counter; also deals with Volcarona and Gholdengo. Has whirlwind to phase unprotected mons into Toxic Spikes and to force out Volcaronas who may have setup QDs, other Iron Moths and WBB Gholdengo. Can swap whirlwind for U-turn for more pivoting into Iron Valiant if desired. Must be kept healthy.

You also play around with mons like Stakeout Tusk, or Hadron Specs Sandy Shocks over Iron Valiant. This team is very flexible with its breaker options and can break most other styles of play depending on how you play. Genera, threats for this team are: :Iron_Hands:, :Dragapult:, :Iron_Valiant:, :Great_Tusk:, and sometimes :Volcarona:.
yeah its just a defensive team that sucks. like do not use material.





https://pokepast.es/e508cc64e6cdade0 heres my main team. i could use advice before i post it to bazaar. spikes balance mainly, wincon is wearing the opponent with spikes or letting something like stakeout tusk in and forcing a switch / ko. mglo pult could potentially ruin this team with yknow the spikes immunity and the immunity to fighting. scarf tusk should ohko pult w a knock tho. my team's main weakness seem to be fur coat garganacl. appreciate any help and advice given. ty in advance!!!




edit 1) triagetriagetriage / jolyne cujoh / idk whats ur smogforums acc name (also cant tag) helped me in the om room. removed ihands and wbb gholdengo for desoland moth and furc garganacl as well as scarf tusk to banded tusk
 
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I'm gonna start off by saying this is not of my own free will, Ducky is forcing me at gunpoint to expose this set. Credits to Atha for the set.

Chi-Yu @ Choice Specs / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Mold Breaker
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp / Nasty Plot
- Psychic

This set is a scary as fuck monster to handle defensively. While alone it can already be quite hard to handle it can be sun-boosted which makes its power even greater. If your IceScale mon doesn't resist Fire (which there aren't many), there's a likely chance it won't be able to stand up to a well positioned Chi-Yu, with IceScales Clodsire (one of the bulkiest special walls around) taking 70-80 from a sun-boosted Fire Blast (and even very nearly being OHKO'd by an Overheat). Mold Breaker also benefits Chi-Yu by letting it not be afraid of any WBB mons when choice-locked which could otherwise force predictions. Things like RegenVest Ting-Lu and Iron Hands both get 2HKO'd by sun-boosted Fire Blasts despite the lack of a real damage-boosting ability for them and even IceScales Garg can get 2HKO'd with sun-boosted Fire Blast (or Dark Pulse) with SR.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mold Breaker Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sun: 176-207 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mold Breaker Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 171-202 (42.3 - 50%) -- 34.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mold Breaker Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Hands in Sun: 279-328 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mold Breaker Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ting-Lu in Sun: 253-298 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Mold Breaker Chi-Yu Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire in Sun: 328-387 (70.8 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Of course, this is all assuming you're all under sun, and fitting in a dedicated Drought user is pretty niche. However, with the introduction of OPulse Ace, you've got a very viable sun-setter who can also pivot in Chi-Yu on WBB mons or FurCoat mons which you can eviscerate. In terms of choices, if you don't feel like dying to SR you can always fit in HDB and Nasty Plot, which limits the immediate power you can pump out but given chip and a Nasty Plot turn you can still pull off similar things, and even be more scary in some situations which allow you to setup, although granted I haven't tested this set much. Flamethrower is just in case you prefer the consistency but makes you requires chip on things like RegenVest Ting-Lu and Hands.

Now of course this set isn't perfect at all. Getting in the right condition and position can still be quite a pain with limited Sun turns, especially if running Choice Specs due to your SR weakness and getting rocks off for it can steal away momentum. Specs Choice-lock also can be annoying, although less so compared to things like CB Tusk due to sun-boosted FBlast still shredding through some resists. Still though, very scary when you do get it in the position you want so it's something worth exploring... at my own peril since a lot of my balance teams get rolled by this.
 

Heracross2.0

And I was the MVP. You were all thinking it!
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Been playing on ladder for a bit, messing around with a few teams, and I feel like the tier is unnecessarily top-heavy. Defensive cores feel really samey (Steel + DesoLand mon + Ice Scales mon that beats Gholdengo comes to mind), and BO teams kinda feel like they just abuse 4 out of the 10+ brokens in the tier and win. I wanna quickly go through some mons I deem problematic that aren't currently on the watchlist.

:gholdengo: Dumbass mon. It has an extremely viable main set (defensive NP) with like 3 different viable abilities that change counterplay depending on what you want (Fur Coat, Earth Eater, Well Baked Body) that forces guessing games both on team preview or in builder. Is that Ghold in front of my Volc Earth Eater, meaning I should immediately try to kill it, or Well Baked Body, meaning I should make a safer play and U-turn out? Guess wrong and lose a mon. Scouting Ghold is also difficult as well; the punishment for using a Fire move in front of a WBB Ghold is giving it a free NP/Sub, and due to its naturally great defensive typing, pivoting out of it into something else just gives it a free hit. It's very annoying to use something like CurseQuake Quag or Garg, otherwise solid counters/checks to Ghold, and have them turn into setup bait because it was actually Sub Earth Eater. On top of that, it also has other viable sets that can take advantage of even the most solid counterplay (MGLO, Choice Scarf), so something like Regen Kingambit gets nuked by Focus Blast, or your Ice Scales mon gets bodied by Steel Beam or Trick a Choice Scarf. Only reason I'm not calling for a quickban or anything is because it and Hippowdon are the only things keeping Iron Valiant from mindlessly clicking STAB moves (that is, until they run Stakeout), but once Valiant inevitably goes I would love to see a Gholdengo suspect.

:chi-yu: This has flown under the radar a bit but I've come to realize this actually has no switch-ins. WBB Corv? 2HKO by SFLO. Ice Scales mons? NP Overheat/Dark Pulse removes them from existence. PSea Quaquaval? Sorry, couldn't hear you over the sound of my Psychic. The only really good switchins to this are Ice Scales blobs (bad) and random Fire immunities on mons that resist Dark, like Tinkaton and Kingambit, but if we're resorting to that just to check Chi-Yu, then I think that speaks volumes to how dumb it is. Would recommend a ban if Ice Scales goes, it's way too powerful already and looks to be even more powerful after its most annoying hindrance is gone.

:great tusk: I'm so used to defensive sets that I forgot they gave this thing Ground + Fighting STAB with an Ice move as well. Run Mold Breaker and it becomes another case of Find The Switch-ins. Things like FC Corv or GaG Skeledirge just die to one of its STABs, and what can take both of them is usually slapped silly by Ice Spinner. It's really lame when a mon that's one of your best hazards removal options also has no switch-ins, but unfortunately, that's the way the world works sometimes. I can especially see this thing being unbalanced when the more obvious brokens like Iron Valiant, Iron Bundle, and Dragonite all leave, limiting its offensive counterplay while still having the negative defensive counterplay it currently has. And don't get me started on Great Tusk with SoR in a Fur Coatless meta. Unless we all agree to run Gyarados on every team, I can't imagine it staying.

:magnezone: Not broken but I would just like to point out that Magnet Pull is probably fine, even without FurScales. The three most common Steels in the meta are Corvid, Gholdengo, and Kingambit. The first is untroubled because Smack Down users are nowhere to be seen, and running a trapping ability on a Fire/Electric-type means that your gameplan is inefficient, since it relies on hoping the Corv is the wrong immunity ability, or else you can't actually trap it. The second...can't even be trapped anyway because it's part Ghost. The third is probably the one most consistently trapped, but Kingambit being removed isn't a big help to any (non-broken) breaker anyway, except for Noivern, which is adequately checked by the other Steels anyway. My point is that trapping Steels right now is an opportunity cost where the risk heavily outweighs the reward IMO, and I don't get why it wasn't unbanned when it wasn't banned at the start of last gen.

:xatu: So uh, when are we bringing back Magic Bounce?
 
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Isaiah

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Not broken but I would just like to point out that Magnet Pull is probably fine, even without FurScales. The three most common Steels in the meta are Corvid, Gholdengo, and Kingambit. The first is untroubled because Smack Down users are nowhere to be seen, and running a trapping ability on a Fire/Electric-type means that your gameplan is inefficient, since it relies on hoping the Corv is the wrong immunity ability, or else you can't actually trap it. The second...can't even be trapped anyway because it's part Ghost. The third is probably the one most consistently trapped, but Kingambit being removed isn't a big help to any (non-broken) breaker anyway, except for Noivern, which is adequately checked by the other Steels anyway. My point is that trapping Steels right now is an opportunity cost where the risk heavily outweighs the reward IMO, and I don't get why it wasn't unbanned when it wasn't banned at the start of last gen.
This is just my opinion and nobody else's on council (making sure this is clear bc I know I'm pretty hard biased against trapping abilities in general), but "Smack Down users are nowhere to be seen" doesn't make Corviknight untroubled :/

Even if we're assuming an imaginary meta w/o FurScales, that means you're conceding that it's fine for things like Sandy Shocks or any Fire-type (we have plenty of decent ones) on a double or pivot to cook your Corv on the spot if you aren't running X immunity ability. "Just run Shed Shell" is and always will be an awful argument in my book as well; even with the limited item change distribution, it's still not unheard of to bait a Corv in and Trick it with something like Iron Valiant, or even better, use Knock Off (Great Tusk and Iron Treads exist too, and Corviknight can be expected to midground them reasonably often). It's not even just Corviknight, either: this applies to Kingambit, Iron Treads...any Steel-type, really. I think ability-based trapping is extremely uncompetitive, so if nothing else, you can at least take that as my reasoning for why I voted to have it nuked from the start. Every time this argument happens (even last gen), the side in support kind of just boils down to "I want to trap Corviknight", and honestly, there are a million and a half existing ways to deal with it and other Steel-types without normalizing the use of an unviable item (Shed Shell) and a very stupid ability (see: MagPull lottery at team preview to see if you guess right/wrong).

E: Just wanted to add that Great Tusk absolutely fries pretty much every Steel-type and would not mind getting an ability that lets it do so for almost free with CC/HR // Garganacl doesn't want to switch into Gholdengo initially regardless :L what if it has Make it Rain or MG Steel Beam?!
 
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Ducky

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I've been a little bored these past few days so decided to ladder AAA with the team's LordBox posted on the bazaar and wanted to share some opinions.

:sv/iron-valiant: Iron Valiant is really annoying to play against because of it's insane coverage and the fact that it could be Stakeout. Stakeout is probably its own issue but Iron Valiant is the best abuser IMO and I didn't really struggle with any other users. As everyone knows, Iron Valiant is fast, strong, and has the ability to hit pretty much whatever wants to try to wall it, and it creates multiple mind games every time it switches it. You not only have to guess which of its 5+ viable move it will click, but also whether or not you should even switch at all. I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said but I would definitely like to see some sort of action on Iron Valiant.

:sv/gholdengo: The other mon that forces an insane amount of mindgames, Gholdengo is super frustrating to play against because it literally has five viable sets and it is very easy to lose to this mon if you guess wrong. It also helps that AAA doesn't really have any Ghost resists so even +0 Shadow Ball is often very free. I'm not actually sure if I think Ghold is broken and don't think banning it would help the meta because it is one of the few mons that can semi-check Iron Valiant, but it is pretty easily a top 5 mon in the meta and every team needs to have a plan vs all of its sets.

Finally just a few words about Stakeout. Personally I find Stakeout very broken because it punishes you for switching into your check. If there was 1 thing in the tier I would ban it would 100% be Stakeout
 
Noooo, why does everyone hate Stakeout smh. Actually this is valid, playing around Stakeout is kinda bs at times, although I struggled more with Tusk than Valiant (or Bundle). Still not broken to use though smh

Anyway, I've been testing around with FC Scream Tail recently and now that I've basically finished testing I'll guess I'll dump the teams I used with it here. (Not a sample submission, but feel free to use them for samples if they're good enough... or even last post the upcoming bans that are likely coming)

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I already commented on MBreaker Chi-Yu and why it's so powerful before and here the team is focused around supporting Chi-Yu and getting it into the position to do fat damage. While I usually use OPulse Ace, Slither was just an experiment and I can't really tell which is better as an OPulse pivot for Chi-Yu. Tusk can reliably remove rocks for Chi-Yu while Corv and Treads can pivot into Chi-Yu and also shore up the team defensively. Scream Tail does lack pivot, however can provide Wish support for the likes of Chi-Yu, Treads and SlitherWing who can all be chipped down quite quickly and just is a decent wall in general, although could be better replaced by pivot FC mons like SlowKing/Iron Hands.

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This team focuses (or at least, tries) on wearing down the enemy through continous chip, hazards and residual damage. With a Toxic and Wisp spammer, 2 Knock spammers, 2 pivot-spam bots and SR + Spikes support, your aim is really to try to wear down the opponent with no real breakers here, Pult/Meowscarada who can cleanup and chip. QD is here on Volc as a potential wincon on this bulkier team, although U-Turn is a bit odd, however getting Pult/Meowscarada on the field was really annoying without any defensive mons who could pivot and I already had a wisper so this was my compromise. Could replace with normal bulky set. Meowscarada despite putting in good work could be replaced to fully gear this team towards being a fat team with like Corrosion/GaG or another fat mon to shore up the team defensively.

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Similar enough that I grouped them together, pretty generic wear 'em down, pivot around and try to get your main breakers in position (Valiant and Ceruledge respectively). 1st team is just a slightly different version of what I posted in the Bazaar so I won't explain it much. As for why I used Scream Tail, I theorized that Wish could help keep the breakers alive longer with the chip they often rack up, although didn't work as often and well as I hoped. Probably better to use pivot FC mons like Iron Hands/SlowKing over it tbh but it still worked decently.

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All of these teams focus on CB Tusk as its main breaker, with the rest of team supporting Tusk and chipping away at the enemy mainly similar to the previous teams although feel a bit bulkier and slow in comparison for me. STail is nice here to keep Tusk healthy throughout the game which is complemented by its nice natural bulk, Noivern/Pult can pivot Tusk in on special walls and also chipping at the enemy and WBB Kingambit shores up the teams defensive profile while maintaining a decent offensive profile and great synergy with Wish (although there might be better defensive partners). Donphan looks like a meme but genuinely isn't that bad and the team did need hazard removal (you can even try WBB Treads > Kingambit for triple elephants, although is probably worse). ScarfRegen Ghold also is fairly replaceable and was filler but still works decently. Scales Slowking is also weird but has decent bulk, slow pivot and synergises well with Kingambit, although is pretty passive with meh utility overall.

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I forgot to include initially this so I'll just tack this on as an edit. It's just my Bazaar Corrosion Hazard stack team w/ Scream Tail over Corv as a FC mon so I won't explain it much here. Scream Tail is probably better with its utility in Wish and Encore/TWave/SR (SR lets Tusk run BU) and worked pretty well over Corv.

In summary, FC Scream Tail is a pretty cool mon. Lack of pivot is a bit annoying and can feel a bit passive though but Wish support is definitely unique and a good thing to have, belonging on more bulky teams and such might be better replaced for some of the teams here.
 
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Clastia

quack
is a Pre-Contributor
Sample Submittion


DIFFICULTY RATING: 3/10 (knowing when to trick with Gholdengo + how to chip Ice Scales Corviknight + Fur Coat Garganacl core down effectively with Noivern + Iron Bundle)

Team is built around SF Noivern + DesoLand Cinderace, with each wearing down each other's checks via pivoting or their STABs. Cinderace has Sucker Punch to punish Dragapult at +2, and Garganacl doesn't fear Cinderace using High Jump Kick anyway. Iron Bundle and Mold Breaker Gholdengo both target Garganacl, which otherwise is hard to break thanks to Salt Cure + Recover. Iron Bundle also serves as a helpful Fire-type answer and main breaker, notably 2HKOing Ice Scales Corviknight after Stealth Rock and a little extra chip, and Ice Scales Garganacl outright, although Gholdengo handles it better. Gholdengo also outspeeds and OHKOs Iron Valiant and Dragapult, threatens Choice Band Dragonite, and slowly whittles down both Ice Scales Corviknight and Ting-Lu thanks to Trick + Nasty Plot. Mold Breaker also allows Gholdengo to check many of the FurScales sweepers that are popping up, such as Ice Scales Bulk Up Quaquavel. Rocky Helmet Great Tusk + Ice Scales Corviknight serve as the defensive core of the team, notably able to effectively handle every offensive threat outside of Mold Breaker Pokemon and Mixed Iron Valiant. Rocky Helmet specifically targets Choice Band Dragonite to punish using contact moves, but also notably dissuades U-Turn from a variety of Pokemon. Interestingly enough, a Super Fang from Noivern into Rocky Helmet chip either lets Corviknight be OHKO'd by Iron Bundle or sometimes 2HKO'd if Corviknight uses Roost before being chipped (Stealth Rock makes this a guaranteed 2HKO). Great Tusk's spread lets it outspeed all unboosted Iron Hands while hitting a HP stat divisible by 3 for Regenerator.
 
Since PH’s ban, could Ape be freed?
The short answer is a no, the long answer is a slightly more complicated no.

Annihilape would be absolutely busted regardless because it can run several defensive abilties all of which bolster it's formidable HP stat and usable defenses, this includes Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Tablet of Ruin / Vessel of Ruin and this is ignoring the most potent ability it would be getting, Regenerator. With Regen it would be capable of switching into countless stray hits, just to pivot and and return with all that HP back, this would inevitably lead to a massively boosted Rage Fist that many, would abuse.

Honestly, the only way I see the Ape's final evo to stay is if Rage Fist got banned but that would only occur if there was more then one viable user (Primeape is a gimmick set in the end) and in a similar vein to Last Respects we ban the abuser when there is only one of them around.

As Isaiah pointed out, a resuspect would be needed first and foremost.
 
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gholdengo
look at him
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string cheese guy.
according to aaa, he can wall a wide majority of the tier.
set number 1: fur coat
why does it wall everything. idt calcs are realistically needed
set number 2: immunity abilities
wbb walls both fire moths, ee walls most dnites, and if i run the non existent motor drive / volt absorb boom bye bye ihands. (wtf is a motor drive gholden)
set 3: mguard
dont see it that often but it can and will put in work if needed. iirc it uses steel beam? not 100% sure. will do huge damage tho
set 4: regen????
barely see it




my point is how walling it is to literally everything. would love a suspect test


edit 1) whoops my point was not that it walls everything. my point was that it was too versatile. just like buzzwole last gen, it can be defensive or offensive depending on the team. it requires a lot of guesswork to play around properly. do i switch in my tusk or my moth? ill send in tusk. oh its earth eater. now its dead after a million coins have been thrown at it. sure knock couldve worked but
252 Atk Choice Band Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gholdengo: 238-282 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 273-322 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
sure mir doesnt ohko but removing a tusk is always helpful regardless of team. one wrong guess and a game can be over.
 
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gholdengo
look at him
View attachment 482142
string cheese guy.
according to aaa, he can wall a wide majority of the tier.
set number 1: fur coat
why does it wall everything. idt calcs are realistically needed
set number 2: immunity abilities
wbb walls both fire moths, ee walls most dnites, and if i run the non existent motor drive / volt absorb boom bye bye ihands. (wtf is a motor drive gholden)
set 3: mguard
dont see it that often but it can and will put in work if needed. iirc it uses steel beam? not 100% sure. will do huge damage tho
set 4: regen????
barely see it




my point is how walling it is to literally everything. would love a suspect test
I don't think it "walling everything" (if that's the point you're making) is the issue with Gholdengo. More the issue is that dealing with Gholdengo versatility can be an absolute pain in the ass as you essentially need to play "guess the set" and dance carefully around the Gholdengo set and guessing wrong can lead to serious consequences with a free attack, sub or NP. Killing the set isn't that awful once you know it, unless your team is quite unfortunate. Even Fur Coat can easily be nuked on the other side or by a very powerful Fire-type (of which we have many). Although I've recently been accounting for Ghold sets in my teams and it hasn't been too hard to find answers to the common sets (as long as you have answers (preferably defensive) for Earth Eater and WBB (maybe FC as well but my answer to EE can usually handle it) I found it doesn't matter much for the other sets tbh). Also why are you bringing up Motor Drive it literally doesn't exist (doesn't even wall IHands reliably as it often can carry EQ on RegenVest and BDrum Triage Hands).

Whether we need to suspect Ghold now I'm not too sure on my opinion. It's defo annoying to deal with but I can't say it's overbearing. For me my recent teams can handle it fairly well like I mentioned before but that might just be luck in terms of how I build recently, and it exerts a good amount of pressure on teambuilding to account for its sets and some teams need to always be aggressive to make sure it doesn't get a sub, even if I know the set to account for its sets sooo idk.
 
I don't think it "walling everything" (if that's the point you're making) is the issue with Gholdengo. More the issue is that dealing with Gholdengo versatility can be an absolute pain in the ass as you essentially need to play "guess the set" and dance carefully around the Gholdengo set and guessing wrong can lead to serious consequences with a free attack, sub or NP. Killing the set isn't that awful once you know it, unless your team is quite unfortunate. Even Fur Coat can easily be nuked on the other side or by a very powerful Fire-type (of which we have many). Although I've recently been accounting for Ghold sets in my teams and it hasn't been too hard to find answers to the common sets (as long as you have answers (preferably defensive) for Earth Eater and WBB (maybe FC as well but my answer to EE can usually handle it) I found it doesn't matter much for the other sets tbh). Also why are you bringing up Motor Drive it literally doesn't exist (doesn't even wall IHands reliably as it often can carry EQ on RegenVest and BDrum Triage Hands).

Whether we need to suspect Ghold now I'm not too sure on my opinion. It's defo annoying to deal with but I can't say it's overbearing. For me my recent teams can handle it fairly well like I mentioned before but that might just be luck in terms of how I build recently, and it exerts a good amount of pressure on teambuilding to account for its sets and some teams need to always be aggressive to make sure it doesn't get a sub, even if I know the set to account for its sets sooo idk.
sorry for the one liner but i just edited my post cos my mind was really focused on eating lunch (asian household)
 
This isn't a post about a team, no, this is a post about the most versatile combination of Pokemon in the AAA metagame as of now (IMO). As a result of extensive laddering and teambuilding I have arrived at this conclusion and while it isn't perfect, it is an amazing core to have at the center of a team and as such behold.

:Garganacl: :Corviknight: :Gholdengo: (:Iron Moth: OR :Volcarona:)

:Garganacl:
This core begins with the bulky and ever salty Garganacl whom is typically run as either Fur Coat or Ice Scales. If Fur Coat, you are capable of running max special defense and HP and still hit nearly 600 physical defense, this lets it act as a mixed wall that is capable of sponging hits from many different Pokemon such as MGLO Dragapult, non-energy ball Iron Moth's, and more. In constrast it can also run Ice Scales effectively allowing it to take on virtually every single purely special attacker in the meta but struggles with mixed and purely physical attackers before setting up a Curse or Iron Defense. The most important aspects of Garg is that it can use Salt Cure to harass the opponent and Recover to shrug off damage.

:Corviknight:
The bread of this combo is ultimately Corviknight, the hard to replace staple of AAA. It is capable of running a variety of abilities depending on the other teammates, this includes, Fur Coat, Fluffy, Ice Scales and Well-Baked Body. Fur Coat Corviknight is a great physical wall capable of handling everything physical barring the strongest of super-effective hits (think CB Orichalcum Pulse Bitter Blade from Ceruledge) and punish them passively through Rocky Helmet and offensively by either pivoting or Brave Bird-ing. Fluffy is a slight downgrade but lets you run effectively 2 super defensive Pokemon at the same time which can be helpful since most moves that hit Corviknight physically are contact. In constast, Ice Scales let's Corviknight tank a vast array of special attackers and to a degree weaker physical attacks but be wary of sets like Hadron Specs Dragapult, Mixed Iron Valiant, for these sets can fairly easily dismantle a Scales Corviknight. Lastly, there is the great Well-Baked Body Corviknight whom is capable of patching up a team that is weak Fire types like Volcarona and threaten them out, regardless of how much it has set up. A lack of Defoggers furthers the centrality of Corviknight in AAA.

:Gholdengo:
The next Pokemon in this combination is none other then Gholdengo whom similarly to the other's can run a variety of abilities that changes the dynamics of it's matchups. It can run Well-Baked Body, Fur Coat, Ice Scales, Earth Eater, Bulletproof, Water Absorb, or even Regenerator. The vast number of abilities and how it effects the counterplay to Gholdengo is one of the primary reasons it is so prominent in AAA. Want to abuse it's fire weakness, Well-Baked Body, ground weakness, Earth Eater, thinking of breaking it with pure offense, it could be Fur Coat or Ice Scales. Gholdengo is even it's own worse nightmare when coupled with Bulletproof... This versatility is one of the principle reasons for the popularity of Gholdengo alongside it's great typing and near perfect movepool.

:Volcarona: :Iron Moth:
Lastly, but definitely not least, is the least flexible but no less important Desolate Land Pokemon which in this case are generally best left to either Iron Moth or Volcarona whom benefit the greatest from the perma-sun. The purpose of these Pokemon is quite simple, prevent Iron Bundle from dismantling the team and to act as bulky sweepers in their own right.

This combination of pokemon, nearly a team, but not quite, is exceptional in my view for it can be changed ability-wise to do a wide rage of things, cover for each others weaknesses, and compliment each other effectively. If you are struggling with team building but don't want a fully built team, try using this and filling the last two slots yourself, mix and match abilities and hopefully win.
 
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After spamming my teams on the forums and seeings others having some success with them apparently as well as seeing some struggle to start building for this AAA meta, I decided I'd just post the kinda generic structure I use to build a lot of my balance (or BO...? I never can tell the distinction sometimes) teams and hopefully this might help some build for themselves (assuming I know what I'm talking about).

1st/Main Offensive Mon/Breaker

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This slot usually goes to your main breaker or 1st offensive mon. In general, I tend to focus my (balance) teams firstly around what is actually mainly going to do damage and make progress and is usually this slot or a combination of two offensive mons (or three). In terms of main breakers I tend to use, there's a good amount of options. CB Tusk, SFLO/Stakeout Valiant, MBreaker/SFLO Chi-Yu, OPulse Ceruledge are all nice options in my experience.

Secondary Offensive Mon (preferably with a form of priority, fast asf and/or pivot)

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Already obvious from the title. Obviously relying on just one offensive mon/breaker alone is generally not too great aside from more fat teams. Another offensive mon that can synergize well with your main breaker or act as a duo with your 1st offensive mon is to help patch this up, preferably able to threaten and pivot on things your 1st offensive mon/breaker can't. Wants to be able to revenge-kill/threaten various fast offensive threats your main breaker (if you use one) often can't deal with, and relying on just your defensive mons isn't a great idea with how scary things can be even while fast. Using previous example, CB Tusk can combo with pivot Noivern/Pult, Valiant pairs well with CB SlitherWing and DNite and MBreaker/SFLO Chi-Yu synergies well with OPulse SlitherWing and Ace.

FurScales Duo

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A combination of a Fur Coat and IceScales mon is basically mandatory for almost all teams, with at the very least one being used on practically all teams outside of HO (and even then it can be used there!). They are the defining defensive abilities and the mons will be the primary defensive backstone of your team to fall back in bad positions. There are a variety of mons that can fill this role of which you'll mainly looking at how they serve the plan for your offensive mons in the majority of cases, mainly looking at the utility they bring. Want a fatter team? Maybe Scales Clodsire and/or FC ScreamTail with the Toxic or Wish support (along with hazards) they bring, or a more balanced and aggressive team might prefer pivot spam from FC SlowKing and/or Scales Corv while also considering important things like hazard removal or setters if they are needed.

Defensive Filler

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While your FurScales mons are going to usually be your main defensive backbone, it's not exactly reasonable to expect two mons to handle everything as walls. In this slot can usually go your Regen/Immunity mons to shore up your team defensively and synergise well with one your FurScales mons. Bulky RegenTusk with Hands, WBB Ghold/Gambit with IceScales Corv, Desoland Volc/Moth with Scales Clodsire/Garg and such. Doesn't necessarily be passive as well like WBB Ghold and can also be used an oppurtunity to shore up your team in roles they lack.

Filler

You can generally get the first 5 done and then take a step back and look at what you need. Majority of the times you can still slap a 4th defensive mon with Regen/Immunity whichever other is taken before or another offensive mon that synergizes or is needed for revenge-killing. Whether you need hazard removal, knock, setting, a revenge killer or a really specific counter to a few mons, this slot is usually where you take your pick.

Granted, this is a bit generic and is definitely NOT the only way to build teams, not at all whatsoever. However, this was the basic kind of process I went through when building a lot of my balance teams and it worked decently well, so take of it what you will. Hopefully, someone finds this useful.
 
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Isaiah

The battle is joined
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Moderator
Survey Results!
Thanks to everyone that responded to the survey! This time around we were able to gather 47 individual responses. While this isn't meant to be a representative sampling of every single person who builds and plays AAA, it's a decent gauge of the thoughts of those who are invested in the tier's development :]

The first question: On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy playing the current metagame?
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The average response was around a 7.28 out of 10. For the first survey of the gen, this is a decent result, but while a majority of respondents did rate their enjoyment pretty high (7/8/9), the fact that ratings even went as low as 2 is a surprising extreme. Hopefully, this rating increases by the time the next survey rolls around.

On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?
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The average response was around a 6.15 out of 10. The responses this time were a lot more "middle of the road" (3/4/5/7/8), meaning respondents collectively aren't finding the metagame as competitive/balanced as it is enjoyable.

Next, everyone was asked to rate several Pokemon and abilities on a scale of 1 to 5 ( 1= Very healthy / 2 = Healthy / 3 = Unsure / 4 = Unhealthy / 5 = Very unhealthy).

:Dragapult: Dragapult :Dragapult:
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Average response: 3.2 out of 5. 36 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

:Dragonite: Dragonite :Dragonite:
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Average response: 3.26 out of 5. 39 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

:Gholdengo: Gholdengo :Gholdengo:
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Average response: 3.26 out of 5. 38 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

:Great Tusk: Great Tusk :Great Tusk:
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Average response: 2.35 out of 5. 20 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

:Iron Bundle: Iron Bundle :Iron Bundle:
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Average response: 3.43 out of 5. 39 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

:Iron Valiant: Iron Valiant :Iron Valiant:
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Average response: 3.66 out of 5. 40 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Fur Coat
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Average response: 3.43 out of 5. 29 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Good as Gold
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Average response: 2.94 out of 5. 31 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Ice Scales
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Average response: 3.32 out of 5. 30 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Hadron Engine
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Average response: 2.64 out of 5. 25 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Orichalcum Pulse
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Average response: 2.9 out of 5. 28 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Stakeout
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Average response: 4.07 out of 5. 44 out of 47 responses were 3 or higher.

Respondents were also asked to share their opinion on FurScales: Should they be tiered together or separately?
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As you can see, ~75% are in favor of them being tiered together. NOTE: Any action will be a suspect test, NOT a quick ban vote.

Unlike previous generations of AAA, in SV we decided to start with a Single Ability Clause or SAC, which limits the number of times you can use each ability to one instead of two. Because of this, we felt it was a good idea to see what the community thinks of this [fairly major] change so far:
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66% are enjoying SAC so far, and 23.4% find it restricting. While the former is in fact a supermajority, no version of the metagame is absolutely locked in stone; if collective opinions continue to favor one or the other, then the council will act accordingly.

Is there anything (Pokemon, Ability, Move, etc.) that you would like to see unbanned or suspect tested back into the tier?

> Magic Bounce: This was quick banned relatively early in the metagame and was mentioned the most (8/47 or ~17%). While a Magic Bounce retest is certainly on the table as a possibility, it will likely have to take the backseat until the more pressing tiering issues are resolved.

> Annihilape: There were some responses asking us to revisit Annihilape now that Poison Heal is banned. Considering that it [already] viably makes use of existing abilities like Regenerator, Fur Coat, and Ice Scales even without Poison Heal's presence, Annihilape's level of balance isn't so clear-cut that it can just be unbanned. At the very least, it won't be unbanned without a suspect test or a soft reset like Home release/DLC.

> Terastallization: As of right now, there's no set-in-stone plan to keep Terastallization banned or not banned after Home release, but if the time does come to revisist it, that will of course be a suspect test and is unlikely to come up as a quick unban.

> We're not unbanning Magnet Pull.

> Unburden also came up a few times. At this time, it's not being considered for an unban for the reasons already laid out in its ban post, but the general tl;dr is that the instant double Speed boost is too problematic to reliably answer.

Once again, thanks to everyone that took the time to respond to the survey. These results are extremely valuable, and reading through them absolutely helps and makes an impact on how the council chooses to tier. With that settled...


Moving Forward

1) VOTING SLATE: After analyzing the survey results, the council decided to vote on some of the elements perceived as leaning towards unhealthy in the metagame :P.
IsaiahUTAthaJrdnDeepFriedMagikarpQuantum Tesseract
StakeoutBANBANBANBANBANBAN6-0 BAN
Iron ValiantDNBBANBANDNBDNBBAN3-3 DNB
Iron BundleDNBBANBANDNBDNBDNB4-2 DNB
Fur Coat + Ice ScalesSUSSUSSUSSUSDNSDNS4-2 SUS[PECT]

So with that, Stakeout is banned from Almost Any Ability! Tagging Kris and Marty for implementation.

The Iron Valiant vote ended up in a tie, which under normal circumstances would mean it should probably get a suspect test. However, the council deemed (based on our voting process) that reaching a conclusion on how to handle Fur Coat + Ice Scales is currently a bigger priority, so any further action on Iron Valiant and Iron Bundle will have to wait until after the Fur Coat + Ice Scales suspect test. As usual though, the council will keep up with any metagame developments and everyone's thoughts as we work to balance the tier :]

2) Wait, Fur Coat + Ice Scales suspect test...?! YUP. Stay tuned hehe
 
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