AAA Almost Any Ability (Sample teams @ post #337!)

Isaiah

The battle is joined
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
Fur coat is a great option, but you shouldn't discount regenerator. The issue with fur coat, why it isn't always the optimal choice, is that veluza still dies to sucker punch.
This is false. Fur Coat enables you to easily eat a sucker punch (252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Veluza: 168-200 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), meaning you're actually free to play Fillet Away/Recover mindgames with the opponent instead of being forced to switch out completely. Of course, +2 Liquidation/Hydro is still relatively weak (+2 0 Atk Veluza Liquidation vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 160-189 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO; +2 0 SpA Veluza Hydro Pump vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 220-261 (59.6 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but you at least have some room to outplay. You lose this avenue completely with Regenerator in the given matchup. Anyone is free to use Regenerator if they wish of course, but it's almost definitely less likely to work well.
 
Last edited:
This is false. Fur Coat enables you to easily eat a sucker punch (252+ Atk Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Veluza: 168-200 (43.7 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery), meaning you're actually free to play Fillet Away/Recover mindgames with the opponent instead of being forced to switch out completely. Of course, +2 Liquidation/Hydro is still relatively weak (+2 0 Atk Veluza Liquidation vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Kingambit: 160-189 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO; +2 0 SpA Veluza Hydro Pump vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 220-261 (59.6 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO), but you at least have some room to outplay. You lose this avenue completely with Regenerator in the given matchup. Anyone is free to use Regenerator if they wish of course, but it's almost definitely less likely to work well.
Thanks for running the calcs I can't right now I'm at work. This is interesting. Veluza has potential. But enough with the theory crafting! Tonight I'll build a balance team to support veluza and ladder with it for our friend who likes the fish. I'll get back with team comp and results after that
 
AAA Veluza + Balance team

976.png

Veluza @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 49 Atk / 64 Def / 143 Spe
- Recover
- Fillet Away
- Stored Power
- Liquidation

This team was built as a vehicle for Veluza to sweep, and here is our star. The fish is built physically bulky and fast enough to outspeed timid Dragapult after a boost. I never swept with Veluza, the best I managed was a 2 for 1 trade with her. :/

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Hex

Fast bulky support Dragapult sets up screens and spreads status, hopefully enabling Veluza to setup and break through bulky threats. In practice this Dragapult ended up being the sweeper more often than veluza.

Meowscarada @ Leftovers
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Taunt
- U-turn

Support Meowscarada is an excellent disruptive hazard setter that takes opponents off guard. With Leech Seed and screen support it can setup multiple layers throughout the match. The intention of this set was to wear down and cripple walls with taunt and residual damage, opening the path for a veluza sweep. In practice, I often used Meowscarada's knock off for pseudo revenge killing late game, and struggled to find an opportunity to uturn into veluza as opposed to another member of my team.

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Salt Cure
- Body Press
- Recover

This is just a very good mon. With physical Def and regenerator, Garg reliability keeps rocks up for the entirety of the match, punishes common defoggers with salt cure, and absorbs status well in a pinch. He is strong offensively against the steel and water types that I expected Veluza to struggle with.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Roost

This Corviknight had one job, to slow uturn out into veluza after absorbing a special attack. In practice I would u-turn into Dragapult instead. It's a super powerful, perhaps banable, Corviknight set, and it supported most of my team quite admirably, just not Veluza in particular.

Iron Moth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Wave
- U-turn

My first drafts of this team were weak to weather, toxic spikes, Iron bundle, and Corviknight. This Iron Moth sets up its own weather, removes T spikes, and nukes them. Simple and effective.

Conclusions

I failed in my efforts to realize Veluza's potential. In practice my win condition was not weakening veluza's checks and sweeping, but instead wearing down the entire opposing team and cleaning up late game with Dragapult and Meowscarada. Although I found that Veluza doesn't die too quickly (with fur coat she isn't frail), she still lost setup wars against quiver dance and Iron defense, and would not trade blows very well.
 
Last edited:
AAA Veluza + Balance team

View attachment 486162
Veluza @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 49 Atk / 64 Def / 143 Spe
- Recover
- Fillet Away
- Stored Power
- Liquidation

This team was built as a vehicle for Veluza to sweep, and here is our star. The fish is built physically bulky and fast enough to outspeed timid Dragapult after a boost. I never swept with Veluza, the best I managed was a 2 for 1 trade with her. :/

Dragapult @ Leftovers
Ability: Good as Gold
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Hex

Fast bulky support Dragapult sets up screens and spreads status, hopefully enabling Veluza to setup and break through bulky threats. In practice this Dragapult ended up being the sweeper more often than veluza.

Meowscarada @ Leftovers
Ability: Toxic Debris
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Taunt
- U-turn

Support Meowscarada is an excellent disruptive hazard setter that takes opponents off guard. With Leech Seed and screen support it can setup multiple layers throughout the match. The intention of this set was to wear down and cripple walls with taunt and residual damage, opening the path for a veluza sweep. In practice, I often used Meowscarada's knock off for pseudo revenge killing late game, and struggled to find an opportunity to uturn into veluza as opposed to another member of my team.

Garganacl @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Salt Cure
- Body Press
- Recover

This is just a very good mon. With physical Def and regenerator, Garg reliability keeps rocks up for the entirety of the match, punishes common defoggers with salt cure, and absorbs status well in a pinch. He is strong offensively against the steel and water types that I expected Veluza to struggle with.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Roost

This Corviknight had one job, to slow uturn out into veluza after absorbing a special attack. In practice I would u-turn into Dragapult instead. It's a super powerful, perhaps banable, Corviknight set, and it supported most of my team quite admirably, just not Veluza in particular.

Iron Moth @ Choice Specs
Ability: Desolate Land
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Overheat
- Solar Beam
- Sludge Wave
- U-turn

My first drafts of this team were weak to weather, toxic spikes, Iron bundle, and Corviknight. This Iron Moth sets up its own weather, removes T spikes, and nukes them. Simple and effective.

Conclusions

I failed in my efforts to realize Veluza's potential. In practice my win condition was not weakening veluza's checks and sweeping, but instead wearing down the entire opposing team and cleaning up late game with Dragapult and Meowscarada. Although I found that Veluza doesn't die too quickly (with fur coat she isn't frail), she still lost setup wars against quiver dance and Iron defense, and would not trade blows very well.
If you want to use veluza I would highly suggest using an HO team such as this one I made not too long ago (credit to BugGoBrrrrrr for the ev’s and the nicknames) feel free to try it out
 
Here's the team I used for reqs and I feel like it's pretty emblematic of this meta. It's bad please don't use it.
:cyclizar: :iron-hands: :iron-valiant: / :dragapult: :polteageist: :volcarona: :gholdengo:

:cyclizar:
1. Goober 1 - aka Cyclizar Shed Tail
God this move is fucking stupid, at worst it's a fast slow teleport which ends up being only a free switch for 50% of an egregious mon with zilch defensive utility and at best and often most likely it passes a sub with any hp and lets immune/furscales stuff set up and break, not really "oh my god we have to ban it now" broken but still suspicious

:iron-hands:
2. Goober 2 - Iron Hands
he's balanced? but might be slightly overwhelming with Dragapult and Gholdengo gone (Foreshadowing)

:iron-valiant: / :dragapult:
3. Goober 3 - Iron Valiant / Dragapult
Iron Valiant was the main breaker of the team. Hadron engine helps electric types but generally it's an awful ability, i think SoR Valiant is the shit until people start running fur coat <insert valiant check> then you run SFLO/Hadron until people start running ice scales <insert valiant check> and then SoR will be the shit, obviously until........
not to mention the fact Moonblast/Close Combat/Gholdengo Move can run god knows what to beat whoever it wants, clodsire? popped by zen headbutt, florges? nah it can run poison jab, dondozo/corviknight, nope tbolt exists.
Personally I don't believe forcing everyone to run multiple soft checks to this mon and "just outplay lol" as well as my inability to use it correctly and only get a KO against corvi makes it healthy for the metagame

Dragapult was a late change to the team and admittedely it did not do a whole lot on this team although it has already proven itself in the tera suspect and against me. It's insanely fast by having the best speed in the whole tier which makes softchecking special pult without a scales user nearly impossible and suprisingly bulky mixed mglo set insanely threatening. I'll only send people to this great post by Heracross 2.0 because generally I agree with his points.

:polteageist:
4. Goober 4 - Polteageist

Queue the random Fur swepeer that wins because i decided to win (S/O to ax who let me have this replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-1769318056-1c5xs3wefjtqpeok887tzwkfjvlef8fpw )
It's simply stupid, 60/65 with not even max Def investement not bulk investement, just Physical Defense investement it's able to setup with shell smash on physical attackers like Great Tusk or Aerilate!Dragonite and it's all thanks to Fur Coat, Dauntless/Tablets would make these matchups much closer, often turning them in the side of the attacker - EV's not put into SpAtk make it harder to break through SpDef mons but often the fact you totally outplayed, won the 1v1 you probably shouldn't have and got 2 smashes is enough to win

:volcarona:
5. Goober 5 - Volcarona
or actually
:iron-bundle:
I put Volca on this team only because "Oh lol I get swept by a bundle". DesoLand!Volca/Iron Moth and Scales!Corviknight are great mons at their own and very good counters to it which makes it feel like every team is weak to it and then there's a hard wall to it (ignore the fact 3a qd volca loses to it long term:eeveehide:). That makes bundle very hard to tier but personally I'd say it's centralizing and unhealthy for the meta.

:gholdengo:
6. Über Goober - Gholdengo

I despise this Cheese String man. My horrendous team building works to joe's benefit - it's ability is nearly unguessable on MU. The IV variant doesn't have a good fire resist so WBB makes sense, it also lacks a Dragapult answer so Bulletproof/Scales makes sense, Tusk kinda cleaves as well so Earth Eater makes sense and Dazzlin Poltea + Fur Joseph seems more "normal" as well. Positioning around him when one of your "checks" is immuned is very difficult and oh boy don't get me started on "3 Volca checks + WBB joe" type of teams. My opinion: joe is teetering on the edge of suspectability but if !randability Gholdengo pops off I wouldn't be against sussing it.

:bewear:
I also wanted to talk about Fluffy or in reality boldly conjecture that the meta won't be healthy with Fluffy in it. While the idea of "Fur Coat but with actual downsides!!" might seem fine, the downsides seem to be miniscule. The contact part really is ignored only by Dragapult (darts), Meowscarada (flower trick), Cinderace (pyro ball), EQ users (pretty big group ngl) and uhh Aqua Cutter/Psycho Cut Sharpness users. Meanwhile the "2x damage from Fire moves" is not a large enough downside for Chomp or Dondozo and even mons like Great Tusk or Scream Tail aren't as threatened because of the abundance of WBB (PSea) steel types. So I assume with Fluffy in the picture the meta will centralize more around OPulse Cinderace as it in particular is able to nuke all Fluffy set up mons.

tl;dr if i was a dictator (like tnm ) if furscales gets banned, fluffy, pult, valiante get qbd, we keep a super close watch on golden joebert & bundle, think about hands, opulse, shed tail
Just wanted to say that your Polteageist spread is unoptimal, you can use 160 Def / 172 SpA / 176 Speed with a Modest nature to hit the same speed and defense but with more special attack. Natures give a 10% boost so they give more positive boosts to higher base stats.
 
Ting-Lu @ Leftovers Ability: Toxic Debris EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 Def Careful Nature - Stealth Rock - Spikes - Earthquake - Whirlwind

Ting-Lu with Toxic Debris is possibly the ultimate setup mon. Its high natural Spd and max EVs encourage physical attacks, lest you complete your full spikes/stealth rock routine, allowing Toxic Debris to take full effect. Whirlwind can stop any pesky buff-reliant mon such as Volcarona, from finishing a set up and sweeping your team, or can be used to phase out rapid spin users and guarantee another free turn. Earthquake is your basic high-damage STAB move that can take care of the frailer mon Ting-Lu will face.
 
I don't know how well known this is but I recently discovered that Ability Shield stops Mold Breaker, its clones and the ability ignoring moves (Sunsteel Strike for example) from bypassing other pokemon's abilities. This means pokemon with Ice Scales/Fur Coat can hold Ability Shield and make Mold Breaker completely ineffective against them. This might have a impact on the meta and the current FurSca suspect test so I thought I should bring it up.

Example calc:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ability Shield Fur Coat Great Tusk: 58-70 (13.3 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
 

Isaiah

The battle is joined
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
I don't know how well known this is but I recently discovered that Ability Shield stops Mold Breaker, its clones and the ability ignoring moves (Sunsteel Strike for example) from bypassing other pokemon's abilities. This means pokemon with Ice Scales/Fur Coat can hold Ability Shield and make Mold Breaker completely ineffective against them. This might have a impact on the meta and the current FurSca suspect test so I thought I should bring it up.

Example calc:
252 Atk Mold Breaker Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Great Tusk: 118-139 (27.1 - 32%) -- 43.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mold Breaker Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ability Shield Fur Coat Great Tusk: 58-70 (13.3 - 16.1%) -- possible 7HKO
For sure, this is a super cool interaction! It's just unfortunate that Great Tusk almost always carries Knock Off, so for the most part Ability Shield isn't going to be very reliable against it
 

UT

This path is reckless
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Fur Coat and Ice Scales have been banned! Now what?

Fur Coat Replacements
:sv/houndstone:
Fluffy
Fluffy is the most direct replacement; instead of doubling Defense, it halves damage from contact moves and also comes with a Fire weakness. While this is still very strong, it has some noticeable gaps for physical walls. Along with providing no net benefit against physical Fire moves (and actually increasing damage taken from Pyro Ball), it also provides no benefit against several notable physical moves like Earthquake, Stone Edge, Icicle Crash, Dragon Darts, Last Respects, and Flower Trick. Corviknight stands out as a great potential user, as it is immune to Earthquake anyway and probably should not be staying in on Cinderace without Well-Baked Body.

:sv/Mabosstiff:
Intimidate
Intimidate is the new strongest option that applies to all physical moves, boasting a 33% damage reduction at +0. The biggest drawback however is that it only applies on switch ins, meaning it's not a great tool for walling or setting up. It also does not scale well with setup, as after a Swords Dance, it scales worse than the other options on this list. It's also possible to negate through crit-based moves and Defiant if you're feeling very funny. Pivots like Corviknight and Slither Wing stand to benefit the most from this ability, as they generally will not be staying in too long. Also friendly reminder that Dauntless Shield is single use now, so it is not a great alternative.

:sv/wo-chien:
Tablets of Ruin
A new entry in SV, Tablets of Ruin provides an effective 25% damage reduction from physical attacks. Unlike Intimidate, it is always active, and it scales at any level of boosting. Even at +6 Attack, they're still doing 25% less than they would otherwise (still not recommended). Tablets is likely a good fit for physical walls that want to stay on the field for multiple turns and avoid weaknesses to Fire-types or EdgeQuake; Garganacl, Florges, and Hippowdon seem like good candidates. Another small quirk, Tablets of Ruin makes you immune to other Tablets of Ruin, so maybe that's a small niche on physical setup mons?

Ice Scales Replacements
:sv/Ting-Lu:
Vessel of Ruin
Similar to Tablets, Vessel of Ruin provides a flat 25% reduction to incoming special attacks. We have fewer special ability options, so this is likely the catch-all replacement and should be considered for most conventional special walls like Florges, Garganacl, etc.

:assault vest:

RegenVest
Assault Vest provides a flat 50% boost to Special Defense, equivalent to 33% reduction like Intimidate. The main downside is lacking the ability to use status moves like Recover, which Regenerator helps patch up. Expect to see a surge in RegenVest on pivots, both offensive like Roaring Moon and Kingambit and defensive like Iron Treads.

:sv/blissey: :sv/chansey:
Pink Blobs
And as always, if you just want a special wall, the Pink Blobs are there for you. They have been heavily nerfed with the loss of Teleport and Toxic, but if you want to sit in front of special attackers, they're still the mons for the job (usually). They also have more room to fit utility moves like Stealth Rock, which is nice ig.

Personal Watchlist (does not represent views of the council)
:sv/iron-bundle: :sv/iron-valiant::sv/dragapult: :sv/dragonite::sv/iron-hands:
These are the guys I am most worried about. I am already on the record thinking
Iron Valiant and Bundle are broken, and removing another tool for dealing with them does not help. Dragonite needs concerningly little chip to plow through offensive or weakened teams with Aerilate Extreme Speed, and Dragapult's non-mixed sets just got a major buff. For Iron Hands, I wish I could just ban Belly Drum instead, but here we are. +6 Drain Punch gets waaay too many OHKOs, even with the no amp Triage sets have. I would not be surprised to see early votes on these five.

:sv/cinderace: :sv/gholdengo: :sv/noivern: :sv/great-tusk:
I have these guys on more of a wait-and-see list; I do not find them immediately problematic as the above, but could see them being broken down the line. Cinderace actually likes running into Fluffy walls, while Gholdengo just has insane versatility and can almost pick its checks. Great Tusk has amazing and high-powered STABs, and can now choose a real offensive ability over Mold Breaker. Noivern I can see going either way; Ice Scales was a massive hit to its viability, but it won't love the rise in RegenVest mons either.

:sv/koraidon: :sv/miraidon: :sv/chien-pao: :sv/chi-yu: :sv/lokix:

I would be remiss to not mention the new damage-amp abilities as well. Orichalcum Pulse, Hadron Engine, Sword of Ruin, and Beads of Ruin all provide 4/3rds damage amp to their respective effects, the same as Adaptability, with relatively few drawbacks. Orichalcum Pulse, in particular, is also literally Huge Power on Fire-type moves, Adaptability on all other physical moves, and the only drawback is running into opposing weather. For the other three, the damage buff isn't that dramatic compared to other options like Tough Claws and Sheer Force, but it is still present and has fewer conditions. They are worth keeping an eye on to see if they are the problem, or the mons. Tinted Lens is also on this list; I personally don't see it as a huge threat, but it has been buffed, and has often been a popular pick for "broken ability."

Quick word on other thoughts (again, personal opinion, not the position of the council / mod team)

AAA has notably switched from 2AC to single ability clause (SAC) this generation. I am a big fan of this change, as SAC is more consistent with our tiering guidelines and have so far have enjoyed its presence in the metagame and not found it restrictive on the metagame. With FurScales's removal, I won't go so far as to say 2AC is off the table for a test, but I think there is a very high bar necessary to consider reverting to it.


We are aware there is a desire to retest Magic Bounce, and given the consistent feedback on it, I believe it is worth being on the roadmap for either a retest or a potential banlist reset with a large Home/DLC drop. However, I do not consider it an immediate priority compared to handling the empowered post-FurScales offensive threats, so do not expect immediate action on it.

I still have a very close eye on setup mons; while they have an arguably harder time setting up now, they also need less room to break the main walls. I am very curious to see how Volcarona, Great Tusk, and friends perform post-ban and if further action is needed there.

Finally, I want to hear from YOU. What mons/abilities do you believe are worthy of tiering action, and why? What teams/archetypes are working well for you? Who/what got better, who/what got worse? We are looking to be very active in the coming weeks to address what is a large metagame change, and the more feedback we have from other players, the more informed we can be!
 
yippee the furscales ban happened.
here are the notable mons imo with increased viability: :iron bundle:(primsea, mglo maybe?):dragapult:(sflo, hadron) :iron valiant:(sflo) :dragonite:(aerilate) :ceruledge:(opulse) :cinderace:(opulse, gimmicky mglo) :iron hands:(triage) :iron moth:(desoland) many more that i can't really think of rn cos of my unknown sickness

basically every setup sweeper that used furscales to survive and setup easily, as well as every defensive mon losy furscales and are getting a harder time setting up / living hits. they are either required to use a ruin ability or intim, due to the dauntless shield nerf.


included in this post are brackets with bis (best in slots)
 

Tea Guzzler

serial waffler
is a Contributor to Smogon
hi so yes i changed my vote from dnb to ban. i think my old arguments still apply (tier will still be centralized, beating walls is just a matter of team support), however when voting i realized that tiering action around the setup mons specifically is likely to be sketchy - people will always be able to innovate and find new broken or problematic stuff, so it's not really a consistent solution.

anyway, on to what i think is likely to be banned:

:sv/iron bundle::ss/dragonite::sv/iron valiant::ss/dragapult::sv/iron hands::ss/cinderace:

these 6 i all think are absolutely banworthy unless something majorly changes. bundle, dnite, hands, and pult are pretty self explanatory, they're already broken mons that were kept in check by splashable furscales stuff meaning they didn't autowin; without furscales, they just have no consistent walls. valiant was probably getting banned no matter the outcome, this thing has one real switchin (scales florges) and without that specific thing on your team, every turn was a 50/50 to not just lose something. cinder is probably a hot take but this thing (now that it gets SD) is likely to be oppressive and force fire immunities on every team, helped out by the fact that it's not checked by fluffy due to being fire-type.

:ss/noivern::ss/gengar::sv/great tusk::sv/chi-yu:

these are likely banworthy at some point, but less evident than the others. noivern and gengar are basically the same as last gen, so will probably emerge once the bigger brokens have been banned, but vessel of ruin, AV treads, and memes like bulletproof ghold could maybe see them stay? idk. great tusk just has mad set versatility and isn't particularly oppressive in anything it will do now (aside from maybe moldy band), so action is likely just because it's too flexible and centralizing, not that it's hard to counter. the fish might also be an issue as its consistent walls are blobs and wbb steels, and it can always try and force past these long-term with ruination or flinches.

:sv/gholdengo:
this has too many sets, and while it can still grab free subs and plots from the right immunity ability, only time will really tell if this is an issue or not.
 
While I haven't played the non-existent meta and so can't accurately predict much, I did manage to play a few honour test-games with some people and I'd like to bring up two mons I haven't seen brought up so far in terms of what to watch
1674563887742.png

Baxcalibur @ Life Orb / Choice Band / Loaded Dice / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sword of Ruin / Technician
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance / Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- Glaive Rush
- Earthquake / Ice Shard

This mon is, to say the least, powerful. Give it a DD with LO Sword of Ruin or the Technician set and there's a good chance it can tear a sizeable hole in your team and give it 2 there's a good chance it's GG already. SD can be run as well with Shard on Technician set to break even harder (+1 252+ Atk Technician Baxcalibur Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 380-450 (95.2 - 112.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO). Choice Band alternatively offers immediate power to hit things on the switch and if you don't resist Glaive Rush there's a good chance you'll be heading to a 2HKO (252+ Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dondozo: 306-360 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) and even things like Intim Corv aren't that hard to wear down. Its bulk isn't even that bad and put it behind screens and in a lot of cases you're gonna have ample opportunity to setup DD. Noticeably both Icicle Crash and EQ ignore Fluffy so even that isn't an option. Definitely worth keeping a watch on, at least for me.

1674564622864.png


Houndstone @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Ability: Supreme Overlord / Surge Surfer
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Last Respects
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough / Body Press / ???
- Will-O-Wisp / Trick

Now with Fur Coat gone, the thing is near unwallable without using something like physically invested Ting-Lu (and even that isn't out the realm of a max power 2HKO, 252+ Atk Choice Band Houndstone Last Respects vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ting-Lu: 208-246 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery). Lots of FC mons which could check it if needed are now gone and puts things like Intim Corv easily within 2HKO or a OHKO (-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Houndstone Last Respects vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 313-370 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) and Last Respects isn't even a contact move so you can't try to replicate FC with Fluffy for this thing as well. Even things like Iron Bundle and Pult are 90% going within the first bans which makes the Scarf Houndstone set at least even better compared to before if this thing doesn't go within the bans as well. Again, definitely worth keeping a watch on imo.

Now I'm just dump my ramblings thoughts on the other potential threats in upcoming meta.

1674565292925.png
1674565307560.png
1674565319224.png
1674565636813.png


If these four aren't immediately gone within the next few days then I'll be pretty shocked. Pult will do Gen 8 Pult things and there's no Scales Corv to laugh at it now. Iron Bundle is the definition of an unhealthy presence in team building and the meta as it will basically force a dedicated answer in Water Immunity or extreme special walls/resists to it alone lest you risk getting swamped by its power and speed. Triage Iron Hands is also probably gonna need to kick the bucket (or ban BDrum...) as you lose a lot of checks in a teams FC walls who can stave off the assault while Intimidating it will be useless (hell you'll probably also lose Pult, one of its most prominent checks). OPulse similar to Bundle will basically force a dedicated answer in a Fire Immune on every single team lest you get blown up by the absurd power of +2 Ace/Ceruledge LO Sun Boosted 120 STAB moves.

1674565579192.png
1674565608674.png


I'm actually a bit borderline with these two but most likely they are worth kicking the bucket. I doubt Valiant will benefit too much from the FurScales ban and SLFO probably still goes brr but could introduce more set variety and still could benefit the powerful SFLO set which was already borderline. DNite now has a lot more sweeping potential but I'm not sure about its performance into walls still, but most likely worth getting out.

1674566007280.png
1674566082036.png
1674566102361.png
1674566189030.png
1674566269254.png


For these mons (and ability) I find them to be interesting and wait to see how they perform in the upcoming meta post the qb wave. Noivern and Gengar have infamous reputations last gen but perhaps creep will be able to keep them from the ban hammer even post Scales? Chi-Yu honestly is a kind of slept on breaker at least by ladder and with Scales gone, Desoland and SFLO sets will become even more scary, perhaps too much to handle? Hadron Engine is also a very good ability and benefits greatly with Scales gone so we'll wait and see. Ghold has been borderline for quite a few and continues to have immense variety, however I honestly think FurScales removal nerfs Ghold more than helps as it never had issue breaking Scales mons and benefitted from the abilities itself but we'll have to see as it still has a bajillion viable sets even without FurScales sets.

1674566550733.png

Fluffy is also a very interesting ability and I wait to see the effects on the meta before forming concrete thoughts on it. However, it may just reinforce the really annoying Fire dynamic of kill everything or do nothing into an immunity (even without OPulse) and I imagine it being annoying to account for and could create a weird kind of centralising effect and warp team building around it in a really weird way (I'm not sure how to put it), but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, F to literally everyones teams before the ban, it was fun (or not) while it lasted.
 
Last edited:
* DRAGAPULT IS NOW BANNED*

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD or invert Def and SpD
Nature: Impish / Careful
- Toxic
- Baneful Bunker
- Liquidation / Toxic Spikes / Stockpile
- Recover / Swallow
This mon is designed to stall as much as possible, and to outlive anything it toxics. Priority toxic guarantees a strong poison against those who are vulnerable, and Baneful Bunker is incredible for stalling, as it can give you a free turn of Black Sludge healing while your enemies are slowly dying of poison. Prankster Recover is a great option, as those who aren't heavily invested in Atk or SpA have no chance of breaking through the healing it provides. Liquidation is just kind of a filler slot, and toxic spikes is a bit redundant, so the normally useless Stockpile could actually be good with Toxapex's hybrid defenses. Swallow's healing also stacks with Stockpile, so both Swallow and Stockpile could finally be almost viable, especially with Prankster boosting their priority.

Add haze to the list, too, haze with priority is very nice to have.
 
Last edited:
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

I made this set to counter Intimidate Corv after the FurScales ban but I didn't know that WBB would become the most common ability on Corv. It's still pretty good against Great Tusk and non-WBB Corv but I am thinking about using Mold Breaker instead. Any recommendation?
 

UT

This path is reckless
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

I made this set to counter Intimidate Corv after the FurScales ban but I didn't know that WBB would become the most common ability on Corv. It's still pretty good against Great Tusk and non-WBB Corv but I am thinking about using Mold Breaker instead. Any recommendation?
Hey I think you’re on the right track, but I think you can still get away with physically oriented Garchomp. Corviknight is more likely to run Fluffy, and Fire Blast does a lot:

0 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Fluffy Corviknight: 390-463 (97.7 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

:sv/Garchomp:
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Sword of Ruin / Regenerator / Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rock

This set maintains much more offensive pressure (or utility with Rocks) while still sniping Fluffy Corv / 2HKOing Intimidate. +2 Stone Edge also does a number to Well-Baked Body Corv, should you see that. I prefer Sword of Ruin, as OPulse gives away you’re running a Fire move, but it’s still an option for better rolls on Intimidate Corv.
 
Hey I think you’re on the right track, but I think you can still get away with physically oriented Garchomp. Corviknight is more likely to run Fluffy, and Fire Blast does a lot:

0 SpA Life Orb Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Fluffy Corviknight: 390-463 (97.7 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

:sv/Garchomp:
Garchomp @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Sword of Ruin / Regenerator / Orichalcum Pulse
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Swords Dance / Stealth Rock

This set maintains much more offensive pressure (or utility with Rocks) while still sniping Fluffy Corv / 2HKOing Intimidate. +2 Stone Edge also does a number to Well-Baked Body Corv, should you see that. I prefer Sword of Ruin, as OPulse gives away you’re running a Fire move, but it’s still an option for better rolls on Intimidate Corv.
Thanks for the help! But is there anyway I can threaten Great Tusk with this set? I kind of want my Chomp to win against the common hazard removers.
 

Isaiah

The battle is joined
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
Moderator
Thanks for the help! But is there anyway I can threaten Great Tusk with this set? I kind of want my Chomp to win against the common hazard removers.
Well-Baked Body Corv is always going to throw a wrench into any plans to account for both it and Great Tusk unless you're Mold Breaker or running something wack.

RE: Your original set, it works fine if you just give Garchomp Beads of Ruin:

:sv/Garchomp:
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 242-286 (60.6 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Vessel of Ruin Corviknight: 182-216 (45.6 - 54.1%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Corviknight: 341-403 (85.4 - 101%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Garchomp Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Great Tusk: 441-519 (101.6 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Double post:

:sv/Espathra:
Espathra @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lumina Crash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

Not the most incredibly powerful set or anything, but can be pretty annoying with its spdef drops :P give it a try!

Triple post:

:sv/Dragapult:
Dragapult @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beads of Ruin / Queenly Majesty
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn
- Will-O-Wisp

:sv/Iron Valiant:
Iron Valiant @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Moonblast
- Close Combat
- Psyshock
- Knock Off / Shadow Ball / Trick

Cool core that I basically ported over from my early gen 8 Scarf QM pult + Tinted Gardevoir teams. scarf pult is basically an anti-offense guy because it's faster than most surge surfers (notably with beads of ruin, you outspeed and OHKO houndstone) and either chips them down or uturns to Iron Valiant, which absolutely doesn't mind clicking Moonblast without thinking (it's zero cost versus most of the tier). QM is also still an option on pult to cook Dragonite if you don't have a teammate for it. Enjoy :P
 
Last edited:
Thought id post a team

Pretty fun and effective-ish balance team i whipped up and laddered a good 100-ish points with. Obv its early meta(shift) so its not too polished but i think it covers threats pretty well. Weak into iron bundle and gholdengo though. The mons here trade pretty well into some really common ho/offense mons like polteageist. Feel free to change up the abilities on Iron Valiant and Great Tusk, as long as the roles stay the same (scarfer, i think offensive bu spin tusk is really good but really just any tusk).

Edit: what was he cooking posting this while knowing that some of these mons would (likely) be banned 20 minutes after
 
Last edited:

UT

This path is reckless
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Who's ready for slate one?
:sv/iron bundle: :sv/iron valiant: :sv/dragapult:
Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, and Dragapult are banned from AAA!
Quick Ban...UTIsaiahAthaQTDFMJrdnTotal
Iron BundleBanBanBanBanBanBan6-0 Ban
Iron ValiantBanDo not banBanBanDo not banBan4-2 Ban
DragapultBanBanBanBanBanBan6-0 Ban
DragoniteBanDo not banDo not banDo not banBanDo not ban2-4 Do not ban

Iron Bundle boasts blistering Speed and perfect neutral coverage with Hydro Pump + Freeze Dry. Checking its main Primordial Sea Choice Specs set nearly required a Water immunity, which was still far from perfect thanks to its pivoting ability. It could also run Tinted Lens and/or Mold Breaker sets to bypass its regular checks, and even more niche options like Magic Guard + Life Orb to regularly harass threats. Its combination of power, Speed, and coverage made it a unanimous yeet.

Dragapult boasts an even better Speed tier, the coveted Ghost offensive typing, and credible mixed attacking stats that made it a pain to check. Choice Specs + Hadron Engine, Sheer Force + Life Orb, Choice Scarf + Queenly Majesty, Will-O-Wisp + Hex...the list of viable and dangerous sets goes on and on. With mixed attacking stats, numerous status moves, and U-turn, checking Dragapult consistently was close to impossible. It could be a wallbreaker, status-spreading pivot, or potent revenge killer...and usually 2+ of those at the same time.

Iron Valiant is the "slowest" of the bunch at a "paltry" 364 Speed. It made up for this with insane wallbreaking power; Moonblast + Close Combat could 2HKO the vast majority of the tier, leaving it two moveslots to cover the rest or act as dangerous setup. Knock Off and Shadow Ball took care of Ghosts, Thunderbolt or Psychic could annoy Corviknight and Clodsire, Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and Agility could radically jack up its offensive prowess, etc. It also ran a plethora of offensive abilities, including but not limited to Sheer Force, Sword of Ruin, Tinted Lens, or even Dazzling to defeat common revenge killers.

Dragonite and its famed -ate Speed sets survived this round, and it joins Iron Hands, Orichalcum Pulse, Houndstone, and a slew of other slower mons on the watchlist.

How will this shape the meta? What else might be too good? What teams are better? You tell us!

Tagging Kris to implement Iron Bundle, Iron Valiant, and Dragapult bans on main, please and thank you!
 
With a bunch of speedsters getting the banhammer, I'd like to talk about Hadron Engine Sandy Shocks. With the other options around, Sandy Shocks had a downright "glacial" speed of 331. But now, it has less speedy competition to deal with, and its status as the best Electric special attacker can truly shine:

:Sandy Shocks:

Sandy Shocks @ Life Orb
Ability: Hadron Engine
EVs: 252 SpA/ 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Power Gem

This set has one primary goal in mind; smash open everything that moves with Thunderbolt. Its already impressive 341 Special Attack gets boosted to 454 with Hadron Engine's secondary effect of boosting it in Electric Terrain. Combined with STAB, Electric Terrain, and Life Orb, Thunderbolt will drop just about any target without a resistance, an immunity, or Ice Scales. In addition, Hadron Engine's Special Attack boost lifts up its coverage options; for example, its Earth Power one-shots any uninvested Great Tusk, and has a good chance to take out even one with Max HP investment. This has the potential to be a very powerful special attacker that doesn't have a ton of weaknesses.

Just a question how good do you think my primeape set is?


Primeape @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rage Fist
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake

Tell me if it's bad or not
It's an alright enough set, though I might consider running Taunt in place of Earthquake to shut down status.

Tera is banned in AAA.
Whoopsie daisy! Fixed, and replaced Tera Blast with Flash Cannon (Though realistically any moves that aren't Thunderbolt or Flash Cannon are irrelevant 99 times out of 100.)

Sandy is definitely better, but I think it still struggles with the plethora of bulky grounds and still not being that fast. Especially now that guys like Noivern and Gengar are also more viable.
I should mention I ran this thing on a Hyper Offensive Sticky Web team with Sturdy Masquerain, so maybe I didn't feel being outsped as much as you might be otherwise.
 
Last edited:

UT

This path is reckless
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
Tera Ice's Tera Blast also melts most things that resist Thunderbolt, such as the aforementioned Great Tusk.
Tera is banned in AAA.

Sandy is definitely better, but I think it still struggles with the plethora of bulky grounds and still not being that fast. Especially now that guys like Noivern and Gengar are also more viable.
Primeape @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Rage Fist
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
No recovery is tough. Might consider trying Regen or RestTalk, but at the end of the day, it’s still a Primeape.
 
bax is crazy.

Baxcalibur @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Technician
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Glaive Rush

this set is crazy powerful, but seems balanced according to UT for now. My lawyers have advised that I do not state my own opinion. while i wont write my long essay on it, i will mention that its pretty cracked rn.

calcs
252hp 0def ihands:
252+ Atk Technician Baxcalibur Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 268-324 (52.3 - 63.2%) -- approx. 2HKO granted it doesnt stay in but 50% minimum is crazy on the fat ihands

0hp 0 def gholdengo:
252+ Atk Technician Baxcalibur Icicle Spear (4 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 152-180 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- approx. 95.3% chance to 2HKO if it managed to ddance its getting 2hkoed done deal

0hp 0def cinderace:
252+ Atk Baxcalibur Glaive Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cinderace: 297-349 (98.6 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO that doesnt ohko? strange. ispear does a minimum of 61.1% btw, as a resisted hit thats pretty huge, then again cinder is paper thin


a meme set i cooked cos something happened with a zangoose recently for me:
Cyclizar @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Wild Charge
it could work, facade does numbers ig? 62% minimum 73.4% max to max hp max def tusk is something ig? would not recommend
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 6, Guests: 6)

Top