AAA Almost Any Ability [Teambuilding Challenge @ Post 749]

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
is a Pre-Contributor
USUM Suspect Announcement
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We are suspecting Blacephalon AND Naganadel before their entry into the competitive AAA scene when OMGS starts.

Blacephalon brings excellent typing and power, with its only weakness being invalidated by complimenting Mind Blown with Magic Guard. That said, its speed leaves it vulnerable to hyper offense, and its typing leaves it prey for Pursuit. It may force balanced or stall teams to run things like Regenvest Tyranitar/Alolan Muk, though.
Naganadel is threatening due to its combination of speed, strength, and movepool. Its STABs compliment each other well, making it the best dragon that can deal with things like Tapu Fini. Its access to Nasty Plot also makes it a potent sweeper. However, it is hard-walled by Flash-Fire steels, though this can be overcome with the use of Mold Breaker, at the cost of power granted by Adaptability.

Suspect details:

The requirements to vote are only 2700 COIL on the suspect ladder. Like usual, this is a fairly low requirement, so please participate. However, we are implementing a 41 game limit to reach the requirements.

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No alt name is required
Feel free to post your opinions about Blacephalon and Naganadel at any time, regardless if you have met the reqs or not.

To make your vote, please comment a screenshot of your reqs and in bold write BAN or DO NOT BAN for EACH MON INDIVIDUALLY. A 66% majority will be needed for a ban (note this slightly higher requirement)

Note that both Blacephalon and Naganadel will be allowed on the ladder.

The suspect will end on January 3rd, allowing for the results to be implented before Round 1 of the AAA Open.

Discussion is highly encouraged!
 
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I think ban naga but not blace since sure mind blown magic guard is op, there are a lot of checks and counters to blace such as pursuit trappers and shadow sneakers, while naga can break through f-fire with Mold Breaker
 
Voting no ban on both, haven't seen enough evidence of either to suggest they are broken. Tbh I think they are a nice addition, because they prompt people to think more about what to use as a potential special wall/pivot, instead of brainlessly going: ok I need a special switchin, regenvest mag it is. hopefully regenvest mana sees an uptake in interest, cos it so nicely walls blace af while giving you a nice slow pivot, with the option to click knock instead.

I have recruited a kind helper to post my proof of reqs for me cos I'm lazy :P. Gl to all trying to get reqs!

E- hopefully this works:
 

Havens

Paranoid Android
is a Tiering Contributor
Mafia Champion
Just a couple questions; does this combined suspect count as two separate votes for TC, or one? Also, why is there a 41 game limit (sounds a bit random)?
 
I do have some thoughts with regards to this suspect. AAA is not my main metagame, so it is very possible that I have some things wrong. Please feel free to correct me.

Blacephalon:

I do not believe that Blacephalon should be banned for 3 reasons:

1. Blacephalon is forced into Magic Guard as it's ability in order to run Mind Blown. This makes its set rather predictable in a metagame where any Pokemon can be sporting pretty much any set, given enough creativity. Any set other than Magic Guard + Mind Blown loses power with regard to Blacephalon's fire stab, making it easier to play around.

2. There are many different ways to play around it. Most Fire, Dragon, Water, and Rock types (if not all), should be able to take a hit from full and then do damage back, with the latter two doing SE damage to Blacephalon. This is also the metagame where Flash Fire is available to any Pokemon, allowing for many different types of checks for Blacephalon to be created, ignoring Blacephalon's weakness to certain forms of priority (Pursuit, Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Aerilate Extreme Speed).

3. There are Fire Pokemon can hit even harder than Blacephalon. Victini is the most notable option in my opinion as it is the most free to run different sets to abuse its signature VCreate. Victini can run Tinted Lens or Adaptability with a scarf to hit either hit Pokemon that resist Fire for neutral damage as well with the former, or to increase its damage overall with the latter. Blacephalon does not get that freedom.

252 SpA Blacephalon Mind Blown vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 143-168 (39.9 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 139-164 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tinted Lens Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 208-246 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Keep in mind, Zygarde has 108/121/95 Bulk, and the Adaptability set only hit for 1% less than Blacephalon).

Most Fire type Pokemon have this availability like Victini, like Darmanitan for example.
252 Atk Tinted Lens Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 176-208 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO.

Now obviously, Victini and Darmanitan both have their dropbacks, with the former losing its stats each time it uses VCreate with the latter losing health with Flare Blitz, in terms of power, other Pokemon can actually be stronger.


Naganadel:

I will admit, this is slightly theorymonning as I haven't seen too much of Naganadel on the ladder, nor have I particularly worked with it in terms of AAA, so I will keep this section brief. Naganadel has a wonderful speed tier, only naturally being outspeed by base 122's and higher (like Greninja and Mega Alakazam). However, it's typing does leave it slightly vulnerable to -ATE priority as it resists only Galvanized Extreme Speed, and takes super effective damage from Refrigerated ones. Also, like Blacephalon, Naganadel struggles with Flash Fire Steel types. However, unlike Blacephalon, Naganadel is not locked into any specific ability, allowing it to run any of the offensive abilities it chooses, like Adaptability, Tinted Lens, or even Mold Breaker to get past Flash Fire pokemon. Also, Naganadel's movepool is just wide enough for it to get exactly what it needs. It has perfect coverage in Draco Meteor, Fire Blast, and Sludge Wave, with the ability to enhance the damage dealt with a ZMove or an ability of its choosing. Frankly, I am still undecided as to whether or not Naganadel should be banned; however, I am apprehensive of it, and understand why we are having a suspect test on it.
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
is a Pre-Contributor
Just a couple questions; does this combined suspect count as two separate votes for TC, or one? Also, why is there a 41 game limit (sounds a bit random)?
To expand on what Kris said, no OM suspects yet count for TC. Sorry!

41Game limit allows for a slightly below a 75gxe to still get reqs; that is the gxe I wanted as the minimum.
 
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When 5/6 losses are because of Focus Blast missing T_T

In regards to Blacephalon, its frailty and predicability are its downfall. The Magic Guard set is stopped dead by Tyranitar, as well as sponges like Chansey. It is outsped by a fair number of strong Pokemon, as well as terrain and weather abusers. It's strong, sure, and perhaps could be of good use on sun teams with Chlorophyll or something, but I'm voting NO BAN on Blacephalon for those reasons.

Naganadel was slightly trickier when I faced it, but still not worthy of a ban. It is fearsome with NP and Mold Breaker to remedy its glaring weakness to FF steels, but in the end I didn't think it was too bad. So I will be voting NO BAN for Naganadel too.

I actually found Stakataka to be the most threatening of all the new UBs. Go figure.
 
Can we ban mind blown instead of Blacephalon? I think that way Blacephalon would remain viable while becoming less broken.
1. Doubt so, this is kind of a complex ban
2. If you ask me, Blacephalon isn't even broken. Even tho Blace destroys a lot, there are some hindering facts about it. Whenever you try to cover one of them, another one uncovered appears and you cannot even cover it:
1. Blacephalon's speed is problematic especially for its low bulk. AAA is essentially a meta where fast and strong Pokemon like Noivern, Weavile, Naganadel and others are dominant.
2. In order for Blacephalon to easily destroy, it needs Life Orb/Choice Specs. However, this leaves it being pretty much easily killed by the aforementioned Pokemon where the bulk issue has also been mentioned.
3. If you try to cover its Speed issues with Choice Scarf, then you miss out on the power Life Orb/Choice Specs give you, allowing resists to avoid the neat OHKO and revenge kill Blacephalon.

With that said, I don't think Blace is really broken. While it is dangerous and should be taken into account while teambuilding, those issues somewhat make it easier to deal with.
 
Some initial thoughts from laddering for a good bit:

Blacephalon didn't feel too oppressive at all. Between having AV Magearna and a bulky (though not specially) Zygarde, if it's choiced it had to guess which one I'm going out into. Also, Zygarde always lives Shadow Ball and Magearna can kinda pivot into Shadow Ball as well. I feel like it's a threatening wallbreaker but I also feel like it's not all that much when you put it next to to other ridiculous wallbreakers which I will cover in a bit. However, I don't think I've come up against a Life Orb Magic Guard Blacephalon and I think that might be a real fucking problem cuz fuck me life orb mind blown's gonna hurt.

Naganadel is completely cucked by magearna and faster threats. I don't see how this is broken at all, it needs to set up to do anything and choice scarf doesn't seem like a good option. Initial impression of this is that it's completely fine. Although to be fair I think I only faced 3 so far, one of them was scarf and the other two weren't able to do much cuz of magearna + faster mons on my team.

Victini is absoooooolutely fucking insane. It's actually goddamn nuts. Blacephalon? Fire Blast? Adaptability? Fuck that shit, desolate land v-create has no switch-ins aside from immunities. Even my fully phys def Zygarde took an astonishing 50% from this fucker. If any fire type is broken it's this fucking bitch.

And finally, the most important point imo, is that these 2 suspects are yet another case and example of how Adaptability is broken. How many Pokemon are actually banned because of adaptability? This is a genuine question cuz I don't know, but I know for a fact Terrakion was one. Keldeo? Kyurem-B? Kartana? Maybe if they're all really banned cuz of Adaptability then it's time to look at the ability and not the individual mons.
 
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Some initial thoughts from laddering for a good bit:

Blacephalon didn't feel too oppressive at all. Between having AV Magearna and a bulky (though not specially) Zygarde, if it's choiced it had to guess which one I'm going out into. Also, Zygarde always lives Shadow Ball and Magearna can kinda pivot into Shadow Ball as well. I feel like it's a threatening wallbreaker but I also feel like it's not all that much when you put it next to to other ridiculous wallbreakers which I will cover in a bit. However, I don't think I've come up against a Life Orb Magic Guard Blacephalon and I think that might be a real fucking problem cuz fuck me life orb mind blown's gonna hurt.

Naganadel is completely cucked by magearna and faster threats. I don't see how this is broken at all, it needs to set up to do anything and choice scarf doesn't seem like a good option. Initial impression of this is that it's completely fine. Although to be fair I think I only faced 3 so far, one of them was scarf and the other two weren't able to do much cuz of magearna + faster mons on my team.

Victini is absoooooolutely fucking insane. It's actually goddamn nuts. Blacephalon? Fire Blast? Adaptability? Fuck that shit, desolate land v-create has no switch-ins aside from immunities. Even my fully phys def Zygarde took an astonishing 50% from this fucker. If any fire type is broken it's this fucking bitch.

And finally, the most important point imo, is that these 2 suspects are yet another case and example of how Adaptability is broken. How many Pokemon are actually banned because of adaptability? This is a genuine question cuz I don't know, but I know for a fact Terrakion was one. Keldeo? Kyurem-B? Kartana? Maybe if they're all really banned cuz of Adaptability then it's time to look at the ability and not the individual mons.
They weren't banned cos of adapt. In fact tinted was way more broken on kart for example. The same goes for hoopa-u. And keldeo wasn't purely adapt either, mostly tinted/PH/Adapt. And finally Kyub really really wasn't adapt. They were banned cos they could viably use a multitude of abilities, and if you weren't prepared for even one of them, you would pretty much autolose, cos aside from pure ct's, there wasn't a whole lot of counterplay that existed for these mons.

Adapt is a strong ability, made stronger by the 1-ability clause being replaced with a 2-ability clause, but I see no need to ban it. Like even this suspect, both naga and blace are really not ban-worthy even with adapt, and ur tini example sounds no-offense, awful with adapt. Tini runs usually deso land, or tinted lens. Special variants run sheer orb usually. Adapt on tini is neither that scary, nor remotely broken.

Honestly, if I were to pick one broke. Ability in aaa, it would be tinted lens. Hoopa-u and kart were both banned mostly for their banded tinted lens set, and like even now banded tinted buzzwole bops the meta. The difference between adapt and tinted, is that usually the switchins people have for a specific mon still switchin if it's adapt, over like sheer orb or something, but if it's tinted lens they are getting clean 2kho'd, making counterplay much much harder. I don't think it needs to be banned, but it's far more banworthy than adapt.
 
For what it's worth i never brought up adaptability with victini :eyes: because I do agree that it's not the ability to go for on victini. Desolate land seems like the best choice, or tinted lens, but I like desolate land better myself since it cancels out all weather.


Just saying adaptability makes a bunch of Pokemon too good. Terrakion, Garchomp, and Mamoswine are 3 I personally used and they were really fucking good.
 

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