AAA Almost Any Ability

Really great over generalization of what I have just written there. I think my reasons are fine for viewing moon as unhealthy. As even the top tier checks for it are nearly always losing in the exchanges (as I demonstrate in the post), and I didn’t even really delve into what moon forces ability/mon wise in builder as well. I think a progress maker like it that has the offensive stats, defensive utility, and longevity it does when there is no other mon comparable is unhealthy. It would open the door for different defensive cores and there actually being some form of risk in choosing and clicking w a different progress maker.
Atha's point encapsulates the main issue that people take with banning Roaring Moon pretty well. The fact is Roaring Moon has very common checks and is definitely not broken. You list the main defensive checks everyone uses, not even just because of Roaring Moon, they are just in general one of the very few mons to compress a lot of utility that is needed these days. Sure these mons aren't the fattest infinite long-term wall ever (that's only applicable for Regen Physdef if it was actually affordable) but practically nothing is these days and the majority of teams are very offensive in nature and do very fine, and even for fatter teams they don't really struggle that much as Fluffy options and neat Regen options still exist as niche options to run and do remarkably fine.

You talk about it forcing in ability/mons but please specify what over extenuating options are we forced to go to that we otherwise don't have to (and also aren't necessitated by other strong Dark-types in the meta). The one example you bring up with this is Volt Absorb Corviknight teams but on the contrary I've found Roaring Moon fine enough for the majority. Because unlike other offensive threats the options to check Roaring Moon are not that restrictive. Regen Ting-Lu, Tusk structures, other Fluffy/Intim options. I specifically even specify that Pecharunt, Mandibuzz and the various Fighting-types aren't good defensive checks but the fact they can work even in the short-term makes for some flexibility handling Roaring Moon on top of the many various other options we have that are already common. For examples see W4 Glory vs Glaliegoesboom, Vabs Corv structure with a fat Ting-Lu on it and there's no issue. W1 Shiloh vs abriel. We even match up into a CB Roaring Moon with a Pecharunt structue that only had cope answers in Cobalion and CB Zama and it's still playable for a win by Shiloh. W4 Career Ended vs Ivar we run Iron Hands + Pecha structure with Vabs Corv and do absolutely fine versus Ivar with a MGLO RMoon. (Fyi I use SpD Vabs Corv, relying on it for physdef is bad lol dont do it sucks)

Of course Roaring Moon will obviously apply some pressure and lock out some mons from being used but that's like literally every offensive mon ever, but the extent it does so to me is a lot less than a lot of other mons that far more actively impact your teambuilder which appears to be the main issue. Banning Roaring Moon does not suddenly make the fact that my Fluffy Corv team or random Tusk structure or hell my RegenScarf Mew experiments dont suddenly suck ass into Chien-Pao because I've had to cover so much else and into the bin they go (or I just fish in a Bo1 knowing the chances of them bringing it are low). It does not change the fact Volc is a massive pain-in-the-ass that very actively forces me to put in very strong speed control (and needing to play aggressive) or random WBB defensive options. Even if other options are not as omnipresent as Roaring Moon they still very actively pressure you in the teambuilder much more than Roaring Moon and most people have found the gameplay with Roaring Moon fine, because it's not an auto-win button either. There are options to counterteam it (hell I've run pickpocket Tusk to punish RMoon, that was a very funny tech) but with all the other far more actively pressing threats it's near impossible to run them.

Addressing other points... Yes, mono-removal is terrible. However, that's practically every team. Corv, Tusk and the far more niche Ace/Treads are practically our only options (and can be pretty unreliable outside of solely Scrappy Tusk). Roaring Moon is not the only factor that contributes to the ease of making progress. We have abundant pivot, hazards, other Knockers (hell people were even complaining Mana was too good at making said progress beforehand, and in many games you still see people forced to sack their RegenVest item or Corv item to similar effect) our decent defensive options are poor and very limited in comparison to the absolute plethora of (far more actively pressuring) offensive mons we have that have centralised teams to make up for this by becoming far more offensive. Even if other progress makers while not obviously functioning exactly the same still all contribute all their fair share to the skew towards the ease of making progress. The game you mention with Kinetic vs Lana was not decided because of RMoon, you just managed to get the matchup right and fished with Primarina which regardless would've been a massive issue for Lana (in fact most of the time Prima gets in is through hard doubles into Ting-Lu).

Yes, Regen in its current state is not a great check for RMoon considering they all are depended on for defensive integrity as RegenVests (wow, imagine if we had other Regens... that would be so great... imagine if we had other flexible defensive options outside of Corv, Tusk, Pecha and maybe some Gholdengo)

Roaring Moon is not an auto-win broken mon, it isn't a Calyrex Shadow. It isn't forcing me to run absolutely absurd stuff to check it like a EE Gambit on every team ever*** like Bax did. It's a great mon, don't get me wrong. But it's not broken and is used to win with good play. As for its teambuilding effects, all offensive mons to a degree force their own pressure onto the teambuilder but I'm been hardly convinced by anything here that Roaring Moon has had an active and overt negative role when building structures when the checks (even if not the absolute best ever long-term forever check) are so common and able to be played around greatly.
 
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Mini opinion poll on what the 6th slot in AAAPL should be (Signups this or next weekend hopefully!):

https://forms.gle/SjV6hKaEmvaFuDYJA


Will close in 2-3 days or whenever responses dry up

Mini opinion poll on what the 6th slot in AAAPL should be (Signups this or next weekend hopefully!):

https://forms.gle/SjV6hKaEmvaFuDYJA


Will close in 2-3 days or whenever responses dry up
Have to double post for this, after seeing how insanely spread out the votes are I made it so you can click multiple options. Plz redo the survey :C

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DO THE RUNOFF POLL BETWEEN SV AAA SUSPECT SLOT AND SV AAA UBERS: https://forms.gle/1bJgHSgkWW3Dza2AA
Survey responses have dried up quite a bit, looks like the 6th slot in AAAPL is gonna be AAA Ubers!
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Survey Results!
Sorry for the delay but thank you to all the 41 respondents who shared their feedback and thoughts! For your troubles at the end there will also be an interesting announcement...

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Average Score: 7.24/10

A fairly high score that has remained about the same as when previously polled indicating most people still agree that the meta remains fairly competitive to play which is good to know on that front.

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Average Score: 6.49/10

A noticeable decay in enjoyability can be noticed from the previous poll (7.13) and there seems to be a polarisation within the community with some still finding it quite enjoyable and those who have found it far less enjoyable though still acknowledging the meta is fairly competitive. This is fairly worrying and has in part led to action being taken.

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Average Score: 2.51/5

The first and the mon with the lowest score on the survey, the discourse around the mon in the community is telling in its notable skew towards the unhealthy side as noted by most people with only a small contingent agreeing that it is somewhat healthy.

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Average Score: 2.59/5

The second and only slightly dragging behind Dragonite with the second worst score on the survey. Like Dragonite it only has a small amount agreeing on being somewhat healthy though notably has a larger skew in the middle with more people unsure and more of those who completely agree on its unhealthy effects on the meta.

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Average Score: 3.27/5

A score that leans on the healthy side, though not by much. Scores are relatively spread out with a variety of opinion though a noticeable large group that indicate most people think it's relatively healthy for the meta. While a somewhat divisive mon that could be suspected, with a larger group leaning on the side that argues its healthy effects of the meta and more pressing mons it's unlikely to get a suspect for now though is still is a concern.

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Average Score: 3.44/5

A relatively high score and with a skew towards the healthy side it is unlikely for Pao to receive any action given opinion.

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Average Score: 3.54/5

A similar case for Chien-Pao though there is a more noticeable mixed feeling but it seems practically no one really is sure about it being unhealthy so action is very unlikely.

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Average Score: 3.49/5

Similar to the two above. Without much of a push, it is unlikely to receive any action given the sentiment of the community.

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Average Score: 3.2/5

While the 3rd worst result of the survey, opinions still on average vary on the healthier side by if only a bit. The votes are fairly widespread with quite varied opinion from completely healthy to absolutely unhealthy but is mostly mixed. Worth keeping an eye on but without solid consensus and the nature of Volc it is unlikely to see any action.

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With 41.5% supporting it's unlikely to see 2AC pushed forward without much support otherwise. It's not a killer for the proposal but it's hard to justify a suspect with the low numbers even interested in suspecting it with a larger count opposing it.

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With 34.1% supporting and a slim margin unsure, it's highly unlikely for Ice Scales to see a suspect or action in the near future with a considerable majority opposing even suspecting it back into the meta and given its large potential impact on the meta it would need far more support.

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The proposal with the largest support in the survey though only by a very slim margin, despite this the numbers aren't large enough to justify an immediate suspect and given the state of the meta Native Abilities Clause is on the backburner in terms of priority to take action on but if it does recieve more support in the future it could potentially happen.

Comments:

The majority of comments was more elaboration on people's stances towards the previously mentioned aspects of the survey and for the sake of brevity I will not be mentioning those here but they were nonetheless helpful!

Walking Wake (1), Zacian-Crowned (1), Enamorus (1), Lugia (1), Giratina (1): Grouping together all the responses that mentioned unbanning mons because the response to all them is practically the same. Given the current state of the meta and the general sentiment of those who are unsatisfied with the meta (as seen in later comments) it would be unwise to unban much of anything that would further fuel the pressure in the teambuilder.

Light Clay (1): While HO is an annoying side of the meta, the viability of the archetype and pressure it outputs makes it unlikely and hard to justify any action against it without any further support.

QDQC (1): While "inherently uncompetitive" since it doesn't have any actual impact as of yet it's hard to justify any action against it.

Iron Boulder (3): While been noted in the responses as part of a myriad of mons that have pressured the teambuilder, the actual effects of it are hard to see with such poor usage and with a lack of support otherwise it's hard to justify but still is a mon that is being watched.

Fur Coat (1): It is unlikely for such a meta-altering change to happen without any further support and the few times it was mentioned people have seemed to stay away from it due the setup issues it brings.

"Do Something" (1): Thank you, very cool.

Given the clear dissent towards both Deoxys-Speed and Dragonite and the lack of relative support for other mons or any of the proposals a vote was held to decide the suspect choice given the dissatisfaction that seems present...

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Dragonite - DFM, LordBox, Betticus, Slither Wing
Deoxys-Speed - Atha, Ivar57
Do nothing - QT

As such, Dragonite will be getting a suspect test! For the full reasoning, you can find it in the thread once it does arrive.
 

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AAA is a bit dead nowadays and AAAPL doesn't seem to be that hype but Siamato came back at the top of the ladder which means I had to play otherwise he thinks he's good

quick thoughts after getting 2 alts in the top 10 with 1 team (not over 1600 cuz i ain't jobless like the top 5) - i haven't played enough to give a proper opinion on everything but anyway I'm right

Team used and built pretty quickly (as always), basic idea is that Pao is an underrated threat (but nowhere near broken) and ppl think they're fine cuz they have a full def Manahpy or something so Toxic Iron Moth + Rocks puts Mana in range pretty quickly (you do 76 min at +2 against 252 252+ Mana), the rest of the team covers matchups, despite Atha (this guy's a fraud but he voted for Deo-S suspect sooo kinda viable) telling me Empoleon sucks it's actually quite good esp against the ladder and it pairs well with Fluffy RH Tusk which is sooo good with Wish Scream Tail, Taunt shuts down Corviknight and lets you 1v1 it which is cool. Trick Regen Scream Tail cuz Regen Scream Tail is good and Manaphy is still the worst mon to use + trick is broken against the ladder, encore is probably not that useful I didn't click it often, twave would probably allow it to be less passive, and then Moth + Zapdos cuz gives Water and Fire checks + utility, just good mons all around (also brings Pao in)

many weaknesses, Boulder, Meowscarda (underrated mon rn prob if you're able to keep the pressure on Corv which is not thaaat common cuz it kinda sucks), Ogerpon Cornerstone and Wellspring (ogerpon overall prob underrated but it's a bit of a MU lottery), opposite pao (basically 6-0 lol), dnite can be tricky if you're weakened, NP deo-s well it's Deo-S if they got the right moves you lose, etc


overall I liked the meta way more than I thought / what it seemed like during OMPL and there's room for creativity, only mon that feels overwhelming is deo-s bc it's just too fast, Dragonite only has 1 move faster than everything so if you have a resist you can deal with it but Deo just gets 3 or 4 moves faster than all your team and if you roll in the wrong set you just lose, if it needed 10 moves to be viable it could be fine but just Specs Eforce can sweep teams p easily with support and NP SFLO rly requires you to have the one check the 3 moves it'll run won't beat (or dodge focus blast cuz you're the better player, works too), I would really like to see this mon gone and then I feel like you could have room in the builder.

even though I usually run slow teams so I suffer from Deo-S Speed, I feel like this mon is just too fast like I usually say "offensive counterplay" when something is hard to answer but lol how do you do that when your opp is the speed itself

oh and yea ban QDQC cancer for no reason, i can ladder an alt to the top with a full QDQC team if you want so you'll have a reason..
 
A (very) late OMPL team dump, although an on time seasonal team dump. I am happy with this experience and it was a great way to get into team tours. I have to give s/o's to Kinetic and Jrdn as these two were the ones I worked with the most for testing, building, and general feedback. They are the actual goats and put up with a lot of terrible builds I made so thank you two sm could not have done it without y'all. S/o to pannu Chessking345 and cat for their testing and feedback as well, towards the end we stopped testing as much but in the beginning it was really helpful to get to know y'all and made me feel more comfortable with the team so thank you. Clas thank you for using my abysmal surge surf ghold team I did not cook mb for selling you on that but I had a really great time being in call building the lu team with you and seeing it put in work was so nice. S/o to Ivar57 for convincing me to even sign up for this thing, initially I thought I was either going to get drafted by the Takers or not at all since after window shopping the AAA slot looked kind of on lock from either the managers or the pool being that stacked with much more established players. I was surprised when I got drafted to the Wokes because I didn't really know anyone on it and had only joined the discord before draft as I had done with all the other public ones. However this worked out for the best and am really grateful for the opportunity Evie and Cat gave me you two were the best managers and always supportive even when I wasn't getting the wins so truly thank you! Finally s/o to some of the people who joined later on to help Racool LordBox Slither Wing BoingK

Week 1: vs Atha (L)

:Great Tusk::Roaring Moon::Corviknight::Gholdengo::Dragonite::Fezandipiti:

This was a team full of good ideas that ended up not going the distance. It had a really poor mu into offensive ghold and set-up dnite, two mons I found myself facing. This team did pretty well into most balance builds, but in general struggled against HO. I wanted to make an HO-proof team at the beginning of the week but got so worked up/psyched out ab being in OMPL I just ended up trying to cover for nearly everything defensively but still having holes in the comp. It also did not help that I was facing Atha, who had beaten me in open. I think if I had covered for my two problem mu's (that I knew about) I could have faired a bit better. Good brings from Atha though and that sub BoR ghold was probably the coolest thing to me.

Week 2: vs Shiloh (W)

:Roaring Moon::Corviknight::Scream Tail::Gholdengo::Iron Moth::Dragonite:

I was very disappointed in my build from the previous week, and really wanted to focus on building a cohesive offensive core, which I felt the previous team lacked quite a bit. I realized now that Wake was banned regen moon was much better, and on top of that most offensive cores were being built with mana/pert in mind, so more grass/electrics would most likely be used which it resists. It's also one of the few regenvests that can actually provide speed control. T-wave on the dnite was to facilitate hex on ghold and mid ground things like psysurge deos and other dnite checks they might bring, also status's the steels that moth could not. Hex ghold is really nice as it is able to 2HKO both pert and phys def mana. There is no need for trick on the ghold as the it was always gonna need its scarf to outspeed things and hex kind of negated the need to get rid of AVs. This team is also really cool to me because each member has some form of recovery and even the offensive mons have some sort of defensive utility. Loaded into a Racool mana/pert overload team, and was able to eliminate the ace, probably the biggest threat to my team as that was the one fire the team really struggled into.

Week 3: vs MZ (W)

:Meowscarada::Zapdos::Iron Crown::Corviknight::Swampert::Scream Tail:

Meowscarada had a really great mu into the builds that they had been bringing. It puts in work against the tusk/moon/water regen cores, though really struggles into corviknight. Mglo was because the removal on this team was pretty abysmal and I didn't like having to do the 50/50 with boots sor on helmet mons and slowly get chipped/guess wrong and die. Due to the corv mu zap was brought to help create a great vortex. Meow also really struggles into dnite, so I wanted a way to handle that, and because I needed a better fairy answer than Corv Iron Crown fit the bill perfectly. It also had great synergy with meow as it could help take out the perts crown really struggles into. Originally the corv was fluffy but as I had just made my chien/boulder post I chose intim instead as that covered for both of them, and although fluffy would've worked better against the boulder intim was definitely the correct call. I got an unlucky freeze on zap after removing the emp, but I could've easily gone meow and not risk the mana being timid. Really happy with this build and how the game turned out, the focus blast miss chance was there, but I felt the risk was the worth it/necessary to get out of the volt-turn loop where I was gaining very little momentum.

Week 4: vs Stareal (L)

:Great Tusk::Roaring Moon::Dragonite::Corviknight::Scream Tail::Iron Moth:

MB Great Tusk had a great mu into the builds that Stareal had been bringing. After that I kind of lost the juice/didn't really know how to build around it so I just went with previous build from w2 because I really enjoyed it. I also tried to bring a tspike team against someone who had been bringing hazard ignore teams, idk what I was cooking but hindsight is 20/20 it happens. I think with just a few tweaks this team would've been much better/more diverse from what I had initially brought. I think two simple changes would've made this team much stronger defensively and offensively. Firstly, changing Corviknight to vabs would've given me an actual electric immunity (as looking at the previous three teams hectrode/most electrics actually do kind of cook), and secondly making moth more offensive to not get walled by wbb steels with discharge. I think these would've been enough to make the team much stronger, but of course I can say that after the fact.

Week 5: vs Sylvi (L)

:Heatran::Corviknight::Swampert::Roaring Moon::Gholdengo::Great Tusk:

This triple steel core is really cool. They each naturally cover the others weaknesses really well and the abilities are customizable enough to further facilitate this. I was pretty sure Sylvi would bring a volc so that is why wbb corv. Unfortunately did not have anything faster than deos and that kind of 6-0'd on preview, probably could've played health on the tran and moon better to give myself a better shot in the endgame but it happens. Another simple change of scarf on moon would've made this mu much better, tho it would've been tough if the bee got webs down. Double scarf was an idea I had but thought 2 scarfers was weird/not a good team comp; though we would revisit this idea later in the tour to more success.

Week 6/7: vs Heart Takers & SSSSS (W)

:Iron Treads::Zapdos::Zamazenta::Roaring Moon::Skarmory::Pecharunt:

At this point I was feeling pretty burnt out and disappointed with my play the past two weeks so I asked to be subbed out. I think this was actually for the best as it helped me chill a bit and focus on building. I was annoyed I had lost to deos and made sure this team had a mon faster than it. If it ain't broke don't fix it was basically the idea since scarf rmoon is a terror for HO. Kinetic had much more input into this build and I'm glad that was the case as we built around regen treads, something I never used before. Rmoon, Zam, and Zap have great offensive synergy and can overload corv tusk water regen structures pretty well. I was a bit worried about the dnite mu/not too good of a special member and wanted zelf instead of moon but good call from Kinetic to stay the course w moon and upon reflection I think it is a great fit here. This was originally going to be for the Takers but then we won the week before Kinetic played. This still had a good MU into the builds the SSSSS had been bringing, and since we hadn't built anything that week we went with the only serious team we had as #1 seed was preferred.

Semi's: vs Sylvi (L)

:Iron Hands::Pecharunt::Corviknight::Roaring Moon::Scream Tail::Cinderace:
:Iron Hands::Pecharunt::Corviknight::Roaring Moon::Scream Tail::Heatran:

Originally was going to bring the heatran one, as it helped patch up the teams fairy/ghold weakness, but I woke up to my team clutching the week and I decided to use the ace one in case I loaded into webs. Sylvi then proceeds to bring screens defiant Zam so like all I can say is respect. The wisp miss was unfortunate in the end game but I definitely should have had a more robust way of handling ghold on the ace team/could've played the early game better. VoR moon is actually pretty cool and can act as a 'second regen', though I don't think I fully realized its potential here.

Finals: vs Lana (W)

:Zamazenta::Iron Treads::Roaring Moon::Primarina::Corviknight::Gholdengo:

This build is so sick. I noticed that there was no weather ball switch-ins anywhere and thought that specs prim would be a great bring as it would nuke whatever is in front of with the combo of weather ball/moonblast. Treads was for the ghosts/zap/stail that Lana had been bringing, as well as provide role compression with rocks, pivot, and spin. This mon is so good but doesn't fit on every build, but when it works it is great. Scarf Zam was there because it beat their usual speed controls of scarf moon and deos, and is a great surprise pick. TC to make it a bit harder to tell what the ability is when it first comes in. Ghold was a bit of a placeholder but actually had great use because it could potentially get rid of a mana vest with trick, which was the biggest stop gap for prim to 2HKO everything. Body Press on Intim Corv because it has a better mu into the things you want to be intimidating, and you really only use brave bird for dnite/tusk, but intim loses to dnite anyway so it wouldn't matter and tusk gets worn down by helmet + teammates so corv doesn't need to be taking the extra recoil damage. s/o Racool actually giving me some confidence in building with double scarf. Kinetic played it wonderfully and we had the build on lock when it really counted so I'm really happy for that.


Although my record wasn't the best I'm still very happy that I was able to squeak by with not one but two wins playing, my personal goal was to actually just get one, but I ended up doubling that so lets go. I'm mostly happy with my builds from this tourney, and think my bigger issue was my play. This can only come with more practice/experience though so with time this will (hopefully) become better. I think I 'overbuilt' a quite a bit; early on in the week I had the ideas but then it would get muddied the more I tested and other ideas came to my head. I tried to curb this towards the end but wasn't the best. I'm going to put this down mainly to nerves/overthinking and psyching myself out on my initial thoughts and trying to find other options that ended up being worse. Oddly enough I was fine with it in seasonal, and usually just stuck to the first or second build I made of a team with no major overhauls. I think this was because I actively tried to stick to my original builds, and due to the lower stakes of the tourney I felt more comfortable if a build didn't work out.


Seasonal

I initially reused OMPL/Open builds, but as the tour went on I didn't want to get c-teamed and also used it as an outlet for more 'creative' team ideas that I didn't feel comfortable using for OMPL. Bo3 allowed for more flexibility in these brings and for me to have more fun with it. I also used it as a way to hone my scouting abilities, as I feel that was another weak spot in my game plan.

Round 1: vs Matte

:Roaring Moon::Zapdos::Corviknight::Swampert::Heatran::Pecharunt:

Although I mostly reused builds in the beginning, Matte had been asking me and talking ab what I was going to bring and how he should prep for it. Due to this I felt that I should start the set with a different build, it was a bit rushed and I loaded into a pretty rough mu but I was able to pull through with a lucky para at the end. The simple change of tran to ep over gem would've shaved about 120 turns off this game, but I was for some reason worried about the zap mu when I had a pert on the team? Idk either.

Round 2: vs Lightniong

Reused OMPL builds for this, though I made the change I mentioned in my Stareal blurb to the corv being Vabs. Happy the team was able to get a win after losing in OMPL.

Round 4: vs Spell

:Zamazenta::Roaring Moon::Gholdengo::Corviknight::Manaphy::Scream Tail:

My attempt at building a mana team in forever. Mana is so incredibly mid. I genuinely don't understand how this mon is a top tier regenvester, it just gets bullied by so many things and all the offensive and defensive cores feel like they are built to punish your entire existence for even thinking of this mon in the builder. Anyway... it was also my first foray with scarf stail as I was 'experimenting' a bit more with different scarfers since I didn't realize how truly splashable scarf wake was until it was gone. Lots of teams are built to handle stail, but not scarf, this is due to many teams either relying on faster mons or regenvests to check stail, but scarf + trick completely negates this combo. It also has the added benefit of being faster than modest deos, and even if you do run into a timid one you are still an stail so you can check it quite nicely. Team was doing good until Stone Edge missed and I completely floundered against the prim setting up. Prob should've just gone into stail earlier and spammed burst but it happens.

:Pecharunt::Gholdengo::Roaring Moon::Zapdos::Great Tusk::Scream Tail:

Going to use this as an opportunity to talk about this team as Kinetic had said 'I want a double ghost team' and this is what came to be. Based if off of Atha's build against Frankjosh because why wouldn't I copy from the person who was undefeated? Adjusted it a bit to fit our build/playstyle's a bit more. Looking back not particularly sure why the zap is bulk invested due to their being a pech and tusk. Probably because I still didn't like the team's moon mu and wanted to keep it on the bulkier side bc of this tho can't remember exactly. I do know max HP on Tusk was for moon. In my game against spell this mon got a crucial knock on the prim, opening up my ghold and zap in the endgame. This was the closest I got to going to losers, and I got bailed out by a full para on the prim when I should have sacked my moon and come back in to MiR, otherwise I was putting everything on stone edge hitting after I had crucially missed it the first game.

Round 6: vs Ghostlike

I had built quite a bit with Ivar during open and ghost was an opp he took pretty seriously and since I had never played them in tour before I decided I had to come in with completely new builds as I did not know if I would get prepped for or not. It was also deeper into the tournament and my opponents were only going to get tougher so I decided to build new teams from here on out.

:Great Tusk::Cinderace::Pecharunt::Roaring Moon::Zapdos::Clefable:

I think the core of ace-pech-fairy is a great one and a bit more progressive. These mons have flexibility in item, EV spread, and movepool that can keep things fresh in builder and in game. I reused the Clef team g3 because I felt the biggest issue during g1 wasn't the team but my play and I really wanted a win with Clef. Vanilla Clef because rocks + knock + Moonblast + reliable recovery is at worst mediocre. Clef is able to take on tusk quite well, and even against Corv's can have some use in getting rid of its item. It also has a pretty nice mu into moon, hands, and dnite. Magic Guard I think is the best ability on it, fluffy and intim are kind of useless because you'll just get knocked and then lose to hazards and getting pivoted on unless you have a pretty robust way of dealing with rocks/spikes, but even then its just easier to have mg. Scarf Tusk because Racool had been using it and had just joined the team cord spreading the gospel ab it. It also helps as a great surprise pick and late game cleaner, which is what it was successfully able to do after the fluffy tusk was KO'd in g3.

:tinkaton::Ting-Lu::Pecharunt::Zamazenta::Iron Treads::Thundurus-Therian:

I had been playing a bit more Ubers at this point and thought spikes are unbelievably broken here I need to build with this in AAA, especially now that tusk is the #1 remover in the tier and spikes actually punish it unlike rocks. Thundy-T was originally a zap but I wanted knock on my strong electric to further facilitate the hstack of the team. The tink set is something I had on the back burner for a bit and is a great check to tusk, rmoon, hands, dnite, and zam (if it doesn't CC you). It also showed itself to be a nice stail answer. Treads was there for zap and spin, and could help pivot in the zam and thundy. Scarf zam is a great fit on spike stack, as the reduced damage output is made up by the 25% most mons are taking on switch-in. Wabs on the pech because this team just gets smoked by any water type otherwise and prankster isn't necessary to take on moon when ting is there.

Round 8: vs Abriel

:Ting-Lu::Pecharunt::Corviknight::Zapdos::Heatran::Iron Boulder:

Still on the spike stack train and it had a great mu into what abriel had been bringing. Originally the scarf boulder was a scarf zam, but this was OMPL finals week and I did not want to bring the same offensive mon same week and have that be apart of their scout. Scarf boulder feels like the truth for this mon and is a great cleaner and even a nice dnite check at full health. The ting-lu switch-in on the zam cc still makes me cringe so hard when I watch it back why did I do that? Corv was right there as a sack and without Lu Ceru actually had a chance to clean with sneak + bitter blade. Very bad play from me but Zap was able to get a lucky para on the stail and clean the game up.

:Cinderace::Scream Tail::Pecharunt::Great Tusk::Roaring Moon::Empoleon:

I had been scrolling through open builds and saw Ghostlike's post (6th team down from the top but also here is the paste) saying how regenvest moon and lev emp was a good defensive core and I wanted to give it a go. I also wanted to rebuild with scarf stail as I had really been enjoying that and it had an amazing mu into the builds that Abriel had been bringing. Really happy with how this game turned out; stail forced a KO nearly everytime it was in and rmoon getting a knock on the mana early on was really big. From there it was really me trying to get stail in as much as possible and keep the mana low. Chien getting a KO everytime it came in actually kind of helped as it allowed me a free stail entry point.

Round 10: vs Damflame

This round I was most nervous about. I knew Dam as a good player but I had never played them before and that is the scariest thing to me. They were also a player who used quite a bit of stall, and due to that I made sure that all the teams I built had a dedicated stall killer.

:Garganacl::Great Tusk::Dragonite::Roaring Moon::Corviknight::Weezing-Galar:

Probably my favorite build in the whole tournament. Garganacl is a mon that I could never figure out but felt it had to be good because rocks + salt cure just bullies corv and water regens. I had experimented with sand stream before OMPL and although it helped mitigate scald + ice beam from mana's, it still struggled heavy when burnt. Body Press on garg is near mandatory due to the prevalence of mglo moon, which would otherwise sit on this mon. Originally I had it as fluffy, but hated how mana + pert were able to either scald spam or use it as pivot fodder. Most opps were clicking EQ against this mon anyway, so fluffy wasn't too helpful. This is when I decided whatever I will just use wabs because the mana pert mu are just that important for it. Due to needing a good moon, dnite, and fighting answer, I went with Weezing-Galar. I have always liked EE weezing, but instead ran lev because I didn't want to run boots + EE bc of the amount of spike stack Dam had brought. These two mons were great in testing, though I unfortunately loaded into a terrible mu for geezing and the unconventional flash cannon hoodra, though geezing was able to get a crucial pain split off that kept hoodra within dnite EQ range for the rest of the game. Now onto the offensive core. Again after playing Ubers I really liked the idea of check overloading. This is the classic mixed dnite set that I used during ladder tour, one of the original stall killers, not much to say it just gets the job done really well into stall and balance builds. Mglo Tusk is a mon that saw a bit of use/experimentation with during open, but I think this set paired with dnite is a deadly offensive combo. It is basically is a mini dnite but due to eq + head smash you get the deadly edgequake coverage. This dnite set is almost never breaking through a pech and vabs corv, but paired with a mon that beats both of those things (head smash does a good chunk to spdef vabs corv too lazy to calc) it leads to situations similar to the one in my game where the pech was forced to choose between sacrificing itself to the tusk to stop it from getting a KO basically everytime it was in or try and save itself for the dnite that could now pick it off with espeed if it wasn't able to find a recover. I originally had a mglo ace there, but I did not like how many WBB mons Dam had brought and needed a hazard remover + status absorber so I pivoted to tusk. It also gave me a key rock resistance otherwise boulder would 6-0. It filled so many roles in one from being a check overload, rock resist, hazard remover, and breaker really happy with how it turned out.

:Roaring Moon::Pecharunt::Swampert::Zapdos::Great Tusk::Gholdengo:

Double Ghost build with double taunt to handle any stall shenanigans and prevent recovery/defog. The moon is bulky because if you are using pert you need a way of checking hectrode and if I'm knock taunt I don't need this thing breaking when it comes in. The game was going really well until I decided to give away my pert (again why do I do this?) to boulder for no reason. I was not calcing and saw it do 45 and did not realize that was actually a pretty low roll, but even then I should've always gone into tusk there. Made the game much harder for myself for no reason. I think I played the ghold really well and to my wincons really nicely after this though. I also got really lucky with the spdef drop on the emp but shhh The zap spread was so that in the endgame I could potentially have a better knock absorber against moon, as this team just gets droned on by mglo, but it came in clutch to help me live a +1 burst.

Grand Finals: vs QT

I was in winner grands, I could not believe it, and I knew that either way my opponents were going to be tough. Since I had already beat and scouted Dam I decided to go right into building for QT because I could pivot easier to building for Dam if they did win. I was concerned that QT/Dam would bring wildly different builds from what they had previously brought for loser's finals, but when I saw this wasn't the case I knew I had to stick to my build plan for QT.

:Great Tusk::Gholdengo::Corviknight::Scream Tail::Roaring Moon::Iron Moth:

Regen Tusk to punish the banded moon + regen hands they had been bringing. EQ + knock bc it has a better mu in the triple bird stall and could at least force progress with knock. Bulletproof ghold bc of the Gholdengo's and deos they had brought. Scarf stail because it beats the moon and dnite offensive combos, and could force a trick if it were the stall team. Vabs corv bc of shocks + zap, but also because it's just generally a good phys def regen partner. Psalt on the moon is where it gets a bit crazy but I realized this team had no way of dealing with ceruledge, fires in general, and status. Psalt moon fit this bill perfectly because it prevented burns from the only two fires they had used, and would completely wall the pech on the stall team. 3A Moth because it covers for the stall team + beats the water regens they had been using otherwise. I was really happy that Fiery Dance + Discharge lured the pert in as I was waiting for the +1 to proc because then beam OHKO's. This team was tailored to QTs builds but at the same time this is closer to what I tried to accomplish w1 for OMPL and I'm happy I could successfully revisit this.

:Primarina::Pecharunt::Iron Treads::Roaring Moon::Corviknight::Zamazenta:

A bit of a redux on our OMPL finals build, but with little changes to help in the QT mu instead of the Lana one. The biggest was boots prim as this is actually a great stall killer with psychic noise, weather ball, and moonblast ripping through stall, and even when bliss is on the team Prim can gift it 20-24% with flip turn and/or deny recovery w pnoise. I also switched out the ghold for pech as I wanted the priority pivots/ability to trade with anything if it ever got dicey. Treads has knock over volt due to how common vabs corv and pert were, so I was never going to get that pivot off anyway, and might as well take an item instead. Spdef on fluffy corv because I don't need all that defense with fluff and spdef gives me more breathing room against something like deos or stail. Finally adamant mglo zam. This mon was originally just sor scarf but looking at QT's builds I realized scarf was kind of useless. The only speed control they used was stail, deos, or dnite; all of which I had other ways of dealing with on the team. Also if stail did ever trick then zam would be able to easily handle it. Scarf also had an abysmal mu into the stall team and didn't want to put it all on prim to get the turns right. This was a very last minute change (literally made day of) and was a bit of a risk, but it paid off quite well.

All of these teams I think are sample worthy as outside of the tour games I tested these on ladder and if they weren't able to get me to the top 10 with ease I knew I wasn't cooking. To illustrate this as of right now I have 6 accounts in the top 20, with 3 in the top 10. Again really happy with these builds and hyped to win seasonal, GGs to everyone!
 
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! PSA: Start considering running Alluring Voice over Ice Beam on Manaphy !
Pretty much like the title says.
Skipping to chase, it prevents :Chien-Pao: and :Roaring-Moon: from setting up, thinking they can risk a Scald burn / tank an ice beam from Regenvest.
It also gives :Manaphy: a chance to annoy (and "outplay") IDBP :Zamazenta:. 100% confusion chance upon a stat boost is really something. This side effect really comes in helpful with the cheesy shell spam guys, (:Polteageist:, :Blastoise:, :Minior:). Just really any setup guy trying to abuse your presence, does this move really come in handy.



That being said, forgoing ice beam on :Manaphy: does come with it's consequences. You lose the ability to hax your opponent with a game ending freeze and the ability to hit the flying electrics (:Zapdos: and :Thundurus-Therian:). To be honest, if your running :manaphy: as your sole electric check, please reconsider building your team.
 
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With 41.5% supporting it's unlikely to see 2AC pushed forward without much support otherwise. It's not a killer for the proposal but it's hard to justify a suspect with the low numbers even interested in suspecting it with a larger count opposing it.
Yo, I'd just like to say that 41.5% is actually quite a significant number for this question specifically and there's two main reasons why.

For one, look at the numbers this way - the distribution means that if you were to take a random group of 5 people, you'd probably end up with a 2-2-1 split (the 1 vote could likely go either way, more likely towards the no side though) which is actually a fairly interesting distribution - the 1 person being able to be swayed means that there's still potential for a supermajority. There also isn't, and then the suspect ends in 1AC being retained, but from a pure numbers standpoint, it's still worth exploring this venue IMO.

Secondly, as someone who's studied data science in depth before, I'd never format this specific question in this way. Reducing a question of this magnitude to a survey response consisting of a yes/no doesn't really do much for either side. The no voters could be thinking that it's too late for a change of this magnitude, and the yes voters could be feeling that it's worth opening up conversation in the first place despite not being in favor of a 2AC clause. It's normally poor practice to open up free text responses when dealing with polling because that makes data sanitation a pain, but with a sample size of 41, I'd say that adding an optional section for rationale would be beneficial (with publicized rationale being anonymized, of course.) Either that, or do a forum discussion. From my perspective, 41.5% is actually significant enough to start discussion on this question specifically given the magnitude of the change and how it's far more impactful than just suspecting a mon or an ability. If that percentage of the playerbase is calling for a suspect that could lead to this massive of a shakeup, it's definitely worth exploring why IMO.

The thing is that you're polling for a suspect. If a suspect ends in 2AC not being implemented, that's fine. That means you've adequately gauged community input and overall, they weren't in favor of it. In cases like Pokemon and abilities, I'd be inclined to follow the line of thinking where if the majority isn't calling for a suspect, there's probably other elements to tackle. But for this question, if I were hypothetically on council, I'd 100% be interested in seeing the rationale behind the numbers.

I swore I would never spend this long typing up a Smogon essay holy fuck get me out

e: also I have no horse in this race. I hardly play, but when I do, I'm satisfied with the meta. I just saw what was being said about the percentage and didn't super agree with it, so I wanted to offer my perspective (because obv everyone MUST listen to Ren)
 
so guys i made funny team and its kinda good (i laddered from fresh acc to 1500s)

trailblaze mamo and alluring voice mana balance
(this is also my formal request for this to be a sample, cuz 2 of them have dnite, which is banned...; please update samples)
:mamoswine: - :manaphy: - :corviknight: - :gholdengo: - :roaring-moon: - :scream-tail:

inb4 someone asks about mana: ogerpon has a ~10% chance to ohko mana from full. (if my maths are correct)

IMSODONELADDERINGITSAIDS.png
Screenshot 2024-09-02 3.04.29 PM.png

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2193221071-1sulnv71ue6dalkvp5hdlkv219gfhw6pw (i goob mana on turn 10 lol)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...92703625-ybfzdyjzb0b1oh6phs3rahsmdphlwb0pw?p2 (mamoswine's priority comes in clutch and trailblaze shenanigans ensue; also i was jolly in this clip psure)

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...92215833-lpq9wzoex8bp8d731wt3xa1ducy4x03pw?p2 (sorry matte for staying in with mana )

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9almostanyability-2192112860-gpde1zmlxpvcyjwdbea190ylwm1n06jpw (heres me goobing Clas with mamo's trailblaze, sorry for bringing this goofy mon. my plays here are insane as well)
basically i took Gambit_Gamin's balance and replaced it with corv , mana and mamo and pretended i didn't need a real fire and electric check.

mamoswine's cool, also mention him at least on the vr in like c tier or something idk.

also keep an eye on :volcarona:, especially now with it's #1 check being gone!
 
also keep an eye on :volcarona:, especially now with it's #1 check being gone!
1725402030960.png

These are Volcarona's best special moves aside from Fire Blast. If the Volcarona is not running a mold breaker ability they will lose to WBB Corviknight or whatever it pivots into to beat it. Its pretty manageable imo, though I'm the guy who always runs MGLO Moltres so maybe my opinion of the matchup moth is biased.
 
View attachment 666111
These are Volcarona's best special moves aside from Fire Blast. If the Volcarona is not running a mold breaker ability they will lose to WBB Corviknight or whatever it pivots into to beat it. Its pretty manageable imo, though I'm the guy who always runs MGLO Moltres so maybe my opinion of the matchup moth is biased.
Nah bro u good, mglo moltres is chad stuff
 
i never really knew how to make a good intro

let's talk deo-s.

deo-s is by no means an uncontroversial mon. we know what it does, and it's gotten its fair share of discussion both here and on discord. so why am i bringing this up? because i think that deo-s is genuinely unhealthy for the tier.

But why?

deo-s has amazing coverage and speed, allowing it to beat staples with the right coverage. this gives sflo sets the capacity to virtually overwhelm the whole tier - ebal for regenvest waters, tbolt for corviknight and skarmory, beam for rmoon and mandibuzz, sball for stail and ghold, superpower / focus for bliss and empo, etc. its extremely hard to switch into deos safely without fear of being hit with the right coverage move. psysurge is a pretty bad set now that dnites gone, and honestly protean kinda sucks because it doesn't give as much power after locking into one move. one underrated / unused set that pushes it for me is np + hadron.

hadron trades away life orb recoil for a stronger tbolt which almost becomes a pseudo-stab, and the ability to use a boosted psyshock. this notably allows it to beat almost every spdef wall we have, barring nicher options like regenvest melo and hoodra. this set pushes it past the breaking point for me since we lack the counterplay to it - most defensive counterplay falter to it, while offensive counterplay can be counted on one hand. the drop in popularity of scarf moon and azelf, as well as the recent banning of dnite, checking deos offensively is tough. recent techs have started popping up to beat deos offensively, like scarf stail, since the arguably best scarfer, gholdengo, doesn't outspeed it.

it isn't impossible to check deo-s, however. since it only has 4 moves and 1 ability slot, it can't be running sf + hadron with psychic / tbolt / beam / sball / focus blast / superpower / dark pulse / eball / np / psyshock / knock off / etc. beating it almost feels as if you are fishing for the right coverage, however, and likewise using it feels like you're hoping you don't run into x mon. offensively, scarf stail and kingambit are extremely threatening to it and force it out. and thus, my suggestion:

suspect deo-s. while it doesn't have to be soon or even now since aaapl is ongoing, a deo-s suspect test would greatly benefit the meta imo and would allow its fate to rest in the community's hands since it is quite the controversial mon. but im still washed at the end of the day, so who knows?
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scream Tail in Electric Terrain: 346-407 (93.2 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scream Tail in Electric Terrain: 346-407 (93.2 - 109.7%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (assuming they protected after switching in)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Scream Tail in Electric Terrain: 346-407 (93.2 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 434-512 (107.4 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Manaphy: 398-469 (98.5 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Manaphy in Electric Terrain: 374-442 (92.5 - 109.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Manaphy in Electric Terrain: 520-614 (128.7 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Roaring Moon: 595-702 (169 - 199.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Empoleon: 221-261 (59.4 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming vabs)

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Goodra-Hisui: 199-234 (54.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 247-291 (61.1 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Unaware Blissey: 398-468 (61 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 372-439 (89.8 - 106%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Assault Vest Roaring Moon: 372-439 (89.8 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Corviknight: 240-283 (60 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Hadron Engine Deoxys-Speed Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gholdengo in Electric Terrain: 420-495 (133.3 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

so yeah it needs hazard support and struggles with hoodra/melo/vabs empo which are pretty unpopularly now but it beats like everything else so please ban it ^_^

and while im here id like to address this:
View attachment 666111
These are Volcarona's best special moves aside from Fire Blast. If the Volcarona is not running a mold breaker ability they will lose to WBB Corviknight or whatever it pivots into to beat it. Its pretty manageable imo, though I'm the guy who always runs MGLO Moltres so maybe my opinion of the matchup moth is biased.
wbb corv is niche at best atm and opens up a lot of holes to volc's teammates since volc is most commonly run on ho. furthermore, just because volc has one check that doesn't mean its not broken. wbb ghold is a poor check to volc unless its some np + twave + hex abomination that should never be run, and as you said, it loses to moldy variants, so it isnt even a hard check. the closest youll get to a hard check is hoodra, who is extremely flawed barely beats it by phazing it out with dtail and can't live 2 fire blasts. offensively youve got the unpopular scarf moon, the unpopular kimgambit which even then is a mindgame, and the unpopular ajet skewda. not really a healthy mon.
 
Out of curiosity, I was wondering why Neutralizing Gas is banned. I can't seem to find any record of it being banned and so the reasoning for it being so.

Many in the community hold the mentality that Neutralizing Gas defeats the fundamental purpose of AAA due to it shutting down all abilities whilst the user is on the field. This changes a lot of dynamics within the metagame such as checks and counters like Intimidate, and damage amps. Basically it effects all abilities in play such that many feel it is detrimental to the core concept of AAA, being able to pick almost any ability.

On the inverse, there are some (me) that think it'd just be a different metagame is all, sure it'd be central within it but it wouldn't be objectively better or worse then what we have now just different.

Pick what angle you agree on.
 
Yo, I'd just like to say that 41.5% is actually quite a significant number for this question specifically and there's two main reasons why.

For one, look at the numbers this way - the distribution means that if you were to take a random group of 5 people, you'd probably end up with a 2-2-1 split (the 1 vote could likely go either way, more likely towards the no side though) which is actually a fairly interesting distribution - the 1 person being able to be swayed means that there's still potential for a supermajority. There also isn't, and then the suspect ends in 1AC being retained, but from a pure numbers standpoint, it's still worth exploring this venue IMO.

Secondly, as someone who's studied data science in depth before, I'd never format this specific question in this way. Reducing a question of this magnitude to a survey response consisting of a yes/no doesn't really do much for either side. The no voters could be thinking that it's too late for a change of this magnitude, and the yes voters could be feeling that it's worth opening up conversation in the first place despite not being in favor of a 2AC clause. It's normally poor practice to open up free text responses when dealing with polling because that makes data sanitation a pain, but with a sample size of 41, I'd say that adding an optional section for rationale would be beneficial (with publicized rationale being anonymized, of course.) Either that, or do a forum discussion. From my perspective, 41.5% is actually significant enough to start discussion on this question specifically given the magnitude of the change and how it's far more impactful than just suspecting a mon or an ability. If that percentage of the playerbase is calling for a suspect that could lead to this massive of a shakeup, it's definitely worth exploring why IMO.

The thing is that you're polling for a suspect. If a suspect ends in 2AC not being implemented, that's fine. That means you've adequately gauged community input and overall, they weren't in favor of it. In cases like Pokemon and abilities, I'd be inclined to follow the line of thinking where if the majority isn't calling for a suspect, there's probably other elements to tackle. But for this question, if I were hypothetically on council, I'd 100% be interested in seeing the rationale behind the numbers.

I swore I would never spend this long typing up a Smogon essay holy fuck get me out

e: also I have no horse in this race. I hardly play, but when I do, I'm satisfied with the meta. I just saw what was being said about the percentage and didn't super agree with it, so I wanted to offer my perspective (because obv everyone MUST listen to Ren)
Replying to this to not only address this but also the few people that have poked me about the prospect of 2AC (even if a bit jokingly).

41.5% is not an insignificant amount by any means and perhaps my wording was a bit harsh when it comes to the numbers but I still stand by it being too low to push forward action when faced with many other choices. A 2-2-1 spread of Yes/No/Unsure does signify that there is some support for the suspect, however for such an important and significant possible change to the metagame, half being opposed at all to merely having a suspect doesn't stir particular confidence to push forward a suspect immediately.

It's true that it is not ideal to compress support for something into a single Yes/No question however the examples you note of the negative effects don't appear to be much of a problem to me. If people don't want to suspect 2AC because they believe it is too late for a significant metagame change then that is a completely fair reason and those who want to suspect 2AC even if they don't agree with it is also valid... it isn't necessarily a poll to measure support for 2AC but seeing if the community wants to go forward with the suspect at all given suspects take time and take focus away from other avenues. Half (excluding those being unsure) being merely in support for seeing a suspect at all doesn't make that apparent and if there isn't a chance for a suspect to succeed it's hard to justify pursuing it in a world with finite time.

While the numbers from the survey are a primary way to see support on a broadest scale, discussion elsewhere also is obviously taken into account. I don't know if we've ever had or been able to get a forum page for a specific topic and this forum has been the stage for discussion around similar topics like suspecting FurScales. I've had people harass me about 2AC and I tell them if they really want it they would be better off making more public appeals like on this forum.

Discussion around 2AC have certainly occurred in the Discord and briefly here in the forums as well and I'm not intentionally suppressing discussion around the topic, people are free to talk about it and the rationale as much as they want. However the relative absence of people making the case for 2AC here has also played a part, in fact from the majority of posts relating to the survey you can see apathy or disdain for the prospect of suspecting 2AC as well as other posts from the likes of Betticus and Atha that push against the idea of a 2AC suspect with other avenues of tiering action pressing.

While it's hard to compare the numbers with the questions being differently measured and phrased it has generally been apparent that there has been far more of a negative response to other elements within the meta (Dragonite, Deoxys-Speed) that people in forums more actively talk about and agree on the use of a suspect for as well as elements that directly contradict 2AC (Ice Scales, for example). As such pushing forward a suspect with a clear lack of agreement to even suspect particularly at the current time seems a poor idea to it. It is, like I said, not a dead-in-the-water proposal but without much other support (in fact stronger pushback to the idea) it seems hard to justify.

Out of curiosity, I was wondering why Neutralizing Gas is banned. I can't seem to find any record of it being banned and so the reasoning for it being so.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/almost-any-ability.3656414/post-8320809 While its ban in early SS AAA was in a wildly different metagame the same basic principles and rationale given at the time still apply for why the ban was carried over from SS. Basically what Giagantic said about it being fundamentally in opposition to the metagames core principles but is also just a wildly broken ability in of itself. While it seems innocuous enough at the surface given you are trading up on using an ability without a clearer benefit and seems to be only a slightly better Mold Breaker, the devil is in the details of a metagame that is highly dependent on abilities. The most clear broken aspect is that it disables Regenerator by simply being on the field. Regenerator serves as an extremely core staple defensive ability that many teams rely on to check many of the amped threats in the meta-game like Specs Hadron Engine X and NGas can disable it to enable the plethora of breakers with extreme ease. It's true that Wandering Spirit can do this to a degree but it's more conditional (needs the opponent to hit them with a contact move) and thus has more counterplay (NGas negates Regen just by being on field) and also lacks the very large amount of benefit that NGas has otherwise that makes it far easier to fit. Speaking of these benefits it grants a variety of benefits both offensively and defensively. It negates all defensive abilities, the aforementioned Regen is one but it will also completely negate Fluffy, Intimidate, all immunities regardless if they are weather immunities and hell can even disable Prankster for Pecharunt to never fear a Prank DBond, evening the playing field for traditionally strong breakers anyway. Defensively it also negates all offensive abilities against you meaning it can net you basically the same benefit as Intimidate against something like Sharpness Iron Boulder. It also can just completely punish you for normal interactions and feel completely unfair, your MGLO HElectrode can suddenly lose 60% of its health when clicking Chloroblast and oh maybe it happily ate a Toxic and has been sitting there and boom suddenly takes a million because a mon switched in, which could've all been hidden. It's a broken ability, it's a unfair ability and an ability that practically directly contradicts the entire premise of the metagame.
 
I'm somewhat new to this metagame and made a team. I would like some feedback or suggestions for this team pls.
https://pokepast.es/4214d3f8aa106881

Tentacruel (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Gunk Shot

I picked tenta because it has pretty good utility, good bulk, and a nice speed tier.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 248 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Just a standard lando-t set for the utility and physical bulk.

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Calm Mind
- Wish
- Protect

I honestly just wanted to use scream tail.

Ogerpon-Hearthflame (F) @ Hearthflame Mask
Ability: Tinted Lens
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Ivy Cudgel
- Trailblaze
- Encore

I picked hogerpon with tinted lens because it seems like a pretty strong set. Many set up opportunities and good snowballing.

Deoxys-Defense @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Teleport
- Cosmic Power

An overall wall and pivot for positioning hogerpon and scream tail.

Archaludon (F) @ Eject Pack
Ability: Earth Eater
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 56 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Draco Meteor
- Body Press
- Iron Defense

I couldn't think of what to put in the last moveslot so I just picked a pokemon I haven't seen in awhile. It sort of counters moon sometimes. The 56 spa evs are to ohko moon and the 192 spe evs and timid are to out speed heatran.
 
I HAVE A BOMB!!! (Gardevoir) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Misty Explosion
- Teleport
- Trick
- Moonblast

Made this fun Gardevoir set for all your exploding needs. Misty explosion does big damage with stab and earns a basically free switch in, teleport is for calling your opponent's bluff on their switch ins, trick is to cripple walls, and moonblast is for when you don't want to explode just yet. This set out speeds a lot is quite fun to use. You should probably rename the it though...
 
I'm somewhat new to this metagame and made a team. I would like some feedback or suggestions for this team pls.
https://pokepast.es/4214d3f8aa106881

Tentacruel (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flip Turn
- Knock Off
- Rapid Spin
- Gunk Shot

I picked tenta because it has pretty good utility, good bulk, and a nice speed tier.
This is a strange reason to use Tentacruel for. No, Tentacruel does not actually have a nice speed tier. If you want a fast regenvester use Roaring Moon. Most regenvesters also want to be slower than the pokemon they're supposed to soak damage from. Only a few regenvesters are "walls" while most are pivots. Swampert is right now one of the best for this purpose because its slow and has pivoting. What else makes Tentacruel bad is its low attacking stats, and vulnerability to certain sets its supposed to beat. This Tentacruel set loses to desolate land Iron Moth for example, it also loses to Azelf.
 
Your meta is awesome. If any tier leaders/ladder peakers/anyone who loves AAA could pass me some squads, i’d love to use them in videos. Either dm this account or on my public wall if you don’t care if others see first

Want to spice up your life with something that looks normal but is clearly DIFFERENT well I have the teams for YOU!

Team 1 - Lure Adaptability Pecharunt team (2hko's many common switchins, 1hko's mglo roaring moon) with Strong Jaws Choiced Band Roaring Moon!

Team 2 - Sheer Force Life Orb Roaring Moon & Ceruledge Edge Team with Sap Sipper setup Manaphy!

My teams are generally a mixture of hyper meta, and meta defying with the specific intent of breaking common metagame elements.

(I've laddered with these teams at 1500 + range)
 
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Want to spice up your life with something that looks normal but is clearly DIFFERENT well I have the teams for YOU!

Team 1 - Lure Adaptability Pecharunt team (2hko's many common switchins, 1hko's mglo roaring moon) with Strong Jaws Choiced Band Roaring Moon!

Team 2 - Sheer Force Life Orb Roaring Moon & Ceruledge Edge Team with Sap Sipper setup Manaphy!

My teams are generally a mixture of hyper meta, and meta defying with the specific intent of breaking common metagame elements.

(I've laddered with these teams at 1500 + range)
As the resident SFLO lover, I have to ask what is Air Slash for? Could you post some calcs too? I have given up on Moon SFLO but this is giving me hope again XD

ANYWAY

Iron Moth @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
- Agility

Great Tusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Supercell Slam

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Primordial Sea
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Weather Ball
- U-turn

Scream Tail @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Boomburst
- Psychic Noise
- Trick

Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain
- Recover
- Destiny Bond
- Parting Shot

Swampert @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

The Moth probably should be Timid, but I liked the higher firepower. You slap it in fron of something it scares, get an Agility up and usually sweep.
Scarf Tail is something I stole from the forum and boiiiii if it's nice. Tusk is there because it's fun to slap people with an offensive one that they do not expect. Zapdos is something that should probably be on another team, but I love it, it hits so much stuff. If you're slower, you get hit by a brick. Swampert and Pecharunt are basic.
 
As the resident SFLO lover, I have to ask what is Air Slash for? Could you post some calcs too? I have given up on Moon SFLO but this is giving me hope again XD

ANYWAY

Iron Moth @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Energy Ball
- Agility

Great Tusk @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake
- Head Smash
- Supercell Slam

Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Primordial Sea
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Weather Ball
- U-turn

Scream Tail @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Boomburst
- Psychic Noise
- Trick

Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Malignant Chain
- Recover
- Destiny Bond
- Parting Shot

Swampert @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Ice Beam
- Flip Turn

The Moth probably should be Timid, but I liked the higher firepower. You slap it in fron of something it scares, get an Agility up and usually sweep.
Scarf Tail is something I stole from the forum and boiiiii if it's nice. Tusk is there because it's fun to slap people with an offensive one that they do not expect. Zapdos is something that should probably be on another team, but I love it, it hits so much stuff. If you're slower, you get hit by a brick. Swampert and Pecharunt are basic.

2:16 PM]Giagantic: it 2hko's tusk
[2:17 PM]Giagantic: 76 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Roaring Moon Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 155-183 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
[2:17 PM]Giagantic: vs
[2:17 PM]Giagantic: 76 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Roaring Moon Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 213-252 (49 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
[2:19 PM]Giagantic: 184 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Roaring Moon Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 153-183 (38.2 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
[2:19 PM]Giagantic: crunch still does damage vs wbb
[2:20 PM]Giagantic: Ultimately it is just there to break incoming stuff, primarily common variants of corv and Great Tusk, which are the two primary answers to Roaring moon.
 
Post AAAPL mini teamdump
(click weeks for the replay, pokemon sprites for the teams)
W1 vs Glory
:cinderace: :gholdengo: :zapdos: :great tusk: :swampert: :roaring moon:
For W1 i built another very offensive team in my same style i had following ompl including my favorite built (team) of that tour. We also gentlemanned to no dnite for this week. Specs zapdos is drugs so its just a basic offense core surrounding it. The moon should def be scarf.
Since Glory knew my tendencies i just got cteamed by scarf Meowscarada which is always a risk for offense teams (among other stuff like chien pao etc especially now that dnite is banned). This team is rly good into basic balances where specs zapdos feasts but meh vs offense.


W2 vs Career Ended
:chien pao: :swampert: :gholdengo: :moltres: :corviknight: :zamazenta:
For W2 i knew i wanted to switch it up and run a more balanced team, to avoid some of the flaws with hyper tightrope offenses i usually go for.
Im really happy with how this team turned out, feels very strong. The defensive core is solid, and Moltres is a beast (btw in the game mine accidentally didnt even have its nature lol). Moltres has risen up during this AAAPL and is really really good right now, probably the best fire type imo, atleast defensive fire type. WBB gholdengo is a really funny mon (who probs should be bulkier) that can just turn unkillable and kill 4 mons straight sometimes. Took it from QT after he was cooking me in tests with it.

MGLO adamant sd pao is by far my favorite pao set and its rly broken. First of, it has excellent offensive synergy with cb Zamazenta who performs the big damage button role that cb pao usually fills. Cb Zama beats Intim corv and Pao beats Fluffy corv. Pao also beats Pecharunt and Scream Tail for Zamazenta. Being adamant lets you "bulk" it out noteably guarnteed living 2 Pecharunt Malignant chains. Mglo lets you play it as a exceptionally strong lategame wincon capable of grabbing an SD on pretty much the entire tier, and a 2nd SD on most defensive mons sealing the game. Mglo is the only set that can afford to realistically go for these plays without dieing to rocks/lorb/toxic.
You get one guaranteed SD on modest :zapdos: with my bulky spread, 2 on :manaphy:, 1 on :swampert:, 1 on no outrage/cb :roaring moon:, infinity on :scream tail: with tchop, 2 on :pecharunt:, etc etc etc. Moltres being an exceptionally reliable burn spreader really accentuates this giving you 2+ sd's on :swampert: for example. Most games you can and will find an SD opportunity, and if you can grab a 2nd every team is swept. Btw :Zamazenta: dies to +0 Icicle crash > +2 Shard.

W3 vs Ivar
:zapdos: :great tusk: :pecharunt: :skarmory: :roaring moon: :volcarona:
(edited better version)
I was really happy with how the bulkier style worked out, so i went this time with a spikes approach rather than a corv pivot balance

This team is my favorite of the tour, it feels soooo good. It has a very solid defensive core, yet it keeps up tempo and momentum very respectably uncharacteristically of a skarm team. Its baked in with many wincons. :Zapdos: serves as a early game pressure point, takes advantage of spikes, checks everything, is generally broken zapdos moment. :great tusk: here was offensive Moldy as i saw that was good into Ivars scout, but either way the tusk here has to be scrappy/moldy here to spin reliably. Regenvest :Roaring Moon: here really shines as it keeps up tempo incredibly well, and still functions as a scary attacker who WILL win longterm with spikes down. It also forces key knock offs on the hazard removers of the tier.

:Pecharunt: is an incredible mon for defensive consistency, and a great spinblocker. Some MU's you just turbo triple spike, go to pecharunt and win. Pecharunt + Skarmory is a near perfect physdef core. Pecharunt, Zapdos, and regen Rmoon are 3 of the best mons in the game for midgrounding stuff and stealing back momentum which really shows with this team. Mglo 3a :Volcarona: puts on insane pressure ingame on the opponent to carefully position in a way to not lose to it on any given turn as most teams are unprepared to deal with it if they cant outposition it, which is incredibly a task to keep up every turn vs a bulky spikes team. It adds less pure defensive utility as opposed to say a Moltres or Iron Moth in this role, but in practice it does it almost better as the threat of it grabbing those free turns dissuades certain mons from coming out/staying too long to begin with. Some mu's like Deoxys-S, Primarina, and especially Latios are worse off due to the lack of spdef steel/deso fire, but those were nicher mu's i was willing to exchange for. volcarona just wins on -2 draco so its fine

I really like how this team plays, how solid/consistent it is, and that its dripping with win conditions.

W4 vs Atha
:manaphy: :deoxys-speed: :gholdengo: :great tusk: :sandy shocks: :moltres:

I wanted to use something a little more offensive this week, and Deoxys-Speed looked intresting as a mon i normally dont like/use.
So i built a Wandering Spirit Tusk(should prolly be fluffy here) special offense around it with some stuff ive been liking lately like moltres and giga bulk gholdengo (this mons insane btw everyone just forgot about it). Atha brought a really heat Eterrain team full of sweepers which was cool. Ingame i had messed up early and sacked my Deoxys-Speed which was the key to winning for me, being that it ohko'd his entire team with ease and most importantly completely disabled his Eterrain strategy had i not sacked it. Looking back though, i should have commited to running + Attack nature on my deo to secure the 2hko on :iron treads: with eforce>superpower i was considering in the builder, which did come up this game.
Also this team rly should be scarf shocks as otherwise its very reliant on keeping deos alive for speed

W5 I just deadgamed/activity lossed since i was busy + we were already out at this point.

officially sample submitting the w2 and w3 teams but also the other ones are good too
if i do end up putting general metagame thoughts itl be after the tour ends
cool tournament aaa ubers was also very fun to build for and watch and s/o the team
 
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Behold a Man! (Tornadus-Therian) @ Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Thrash
- Body Slam
- Brick Break / or some other move idk

Made another big damage set that is pretty fun to use. Pretty self explanatory, press thrash and do huge damage,and very fast too.
 
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