Pokémon Alola Marowak

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right now this mon is amazing to check a ton of relevant threats like pheromosa, electric types in general, genesect, kartana, tapu bulu, etc but i feel like once the meta settles i think this thing can be insanely threatening as a wallbreaker. i think theres nothing in the entire game that can take thick club boosted fire and ghost stabs besides like normal types with thick fat. like even resists get 2hkod by flare blitz or shadow bone.

it wont be as effective, but it can be a really solid choice to break through defensive oriented teams.
 
right now this mon is amazing to check a ton of relevant threats like pheromosa, electric types in general, genesect, kartana, tapu bulu, etc but i feel like once the meta settles i think this thing can be insanely threatening as a wallbreaker. i think theres nothing in the entire game that can take thick club boosted fire and ghost stabs besides like normal types with thick fat. like even resists get 2hkod by flare blitz or shadow bone.

it wont be as effective, but it can be a really solid choice to break through defensive oriented teams.
It would actually be pretty hilarious if something like Thick Fat Snorlax or even Miltank/Purugly ends up in OU in order to counter Marowak.
 
right now this mon is amazing to check a ton of relevant threats like pheromosa, electric types in general, genesect, kartana, tapu bulu, etc but i feel like once the meta settles i think this thing can be insanely threatening as a wallbreaker. i think theres nothing in the entire game that can take thick club boosted fire and ghost stabs besides like normal types with thick fat. like even resists get 2hkod by flare blitz or shadow bone.

it wont be as effective, but it can be a really solid choice to break through defensive oriented teams.
There's more than a few mons that might be a pain for Marowak though. Bulky Waters can stomach a couple of Shadow Bones (and a lot of them outspeed Marowak) but arguably it's biggest nemeses (sp?) are TTar (who can take a STAB hit then pursuit-trap it), Tank-Chomp (easily takes a hit, Rough Skin + Helmet, outspeeds and packs an EQ), and Lando-T (Intimidate lets it take >50% on defensive sets, can outspeed it and literally do whatever it wants, EQ, Stone Edge, Knock Off, U-Turn if you switch). Mind that all of those mons also set up Rocks (something Marowak HATES). I think with Marowak you're better off with stuff that can take one hit and outspeed it.

Also, stupid question, but how do you get Fire Punch on an Alolan Marowak? I thought a transferred Cubone would keep its non-Alolan form when it evolves?
 
There's more than a few mons that might be a pain for Marowak though. Bulky Waters can stomach a couple of Shadow Bones (and a lot of them outspeed Marowak) but arguably it's biggest nemeses (sp?) are TTar (who can take a STAB hit then pursuit-trap it), Tank-Chomp (easily takes a hit, Rough Skin + Helmet, outspeeds and packs an EQ), and Lando-T (Intimidate lets it take >50% on defensive sets, can outspeed it and literally do whatever it wants, EQ, Stone Edge, Knock Off, U-Turn if you switch). Mind that all of those mons also set up Rocks (something Marowak HATES). I think with Marowak you're better off with stuff that can take one hit and outspeed it.

Also, stupid question, but how do you get Fire Punch on an Alolan Marowak? I thought a transferred Cubone would keep its non-Alolan form when it evolves?
It doesn't keep its non-Alolan form, the regular evolutions for Marowak, Raichu, and Exeggutor are impossible to execute in Sun and Moon.

although theres not much reason to run any fire stab but flare blitz.
 
I doubt it's going to tank a Flare Blitz nearly as well as the things I listed though.
16+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Flare Blitz vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Mandibuzz: 172-204 (40.8 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Actually, this does have potential, as Mandibuzz outspeeds and can potentially KO with Foul Play after the Flare Blitz recoil, or can just Roost spam and let A-Marowak kill itself from recoil.
 
I doubt it's going to tank a Flare Blitz nearly as well as the things I listed though.
I think it was a reference to how Mandibuzz is apparently Cubone and Marowak's natural enemy/predator.

Side note, wasn't the whole reason Marowak became a Fire type was because Grass Pokemon were its natural enemy, not Mandibuzz? And wouldn't becoming a Ghost type make it more screwed by Mandibuzz? Eh, I guess now it can actually hit Mandibuzz with its STAB, so it makes more sense than Gabite and Sableye preying on the Fairy type Carbink.
 
I think it was a reference to how Mandibuzz is apparently Cubone and Marowak's natural enemy/predator.

Side note, wasn't the whole reason Marowak became a Fire type was because Grass Pokemon were its natural enemy, not Mandibuzz? And wouldn't becoming a Ghost type make it more screwed by Mandibuzz? Eh, I guess now it can actually hit Mandibuzz with its STAB, so it makes more sense than Gabite and Sableye preying on the Fairy type Carbink.
Well I feel dumb for not getting that reference.

But are there even any grass types that can be considered predators in this region? I guess it just didn't like fighting them due to always having the disadvantage. Eh, Pokedex entries are inconsistent anyway, I wouldn't take them too seriously.
 
I think it was a reference to how Mandibuzz is apparently Cubone and Marowak's natural enemy/predator.

Side note, wasn't the whole reason Marowak became a Fire type was because Grass Pokemon were its natural enemy, not Mandibuzz? And wouldn't becoming a Ghost type make it more screwed by Mandibuzz? Eh, I guess now it can actually hit Mandibuzz with its STAB, so it makes more sense than Gabite and Sableye preying on the Fairy type Carbink.
Actually, I'd argue Mandibuzz became a natural enemy specifically to Alolan Cubone, seeing as their parents(Alolan Marowak) can't protect them against those anymore. I don't think older dex entries mention Mandibuzz as a predator of Cubone. Kind of a trade off of evolution.

On topic of tanking hits though, I *really* find Flare Blitz to hamper its tanking qualities quite a bit. I end up using Shadow Bone primarily and Flare Blitz only to pick off certain threats, like the Steel types my Tapu Bulu hates. I wish Flame Wheel had at least a higher burn chance to justify using it over Fire Punch, which 3DS players can't get yet.

Not sure wether to use more Atk or more defensive spreads either. I end up wanting the other one whenever I switch it up and battle again lol Such a weird mix of offense and defense here.
 
It would actually be pretty hilarious if something like Thick Fat Snorlax or even Miltank/Purugly ends up in OU in order to counter Marowak.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Marowak is really good right now; it might even be good in the future after the meta removes some of the more unpleasant threats like Pheromosa; it is not, however, centralizing to the point where it needs really niche counters like Thick Fat Snorlax or Miltank/Purugle. Marowak is still rEEEEALLy slow; it's not really that hard to dispatch. Its main selling points are its typing's key resistances and its immense power.

Right now, I think Marowak is a good tank full stop. It's not Aegislash good nor will it ever be, so I think any discussion regarding niche counters is really unjustified.

EDIT: I feel I should clarify that I'm not insinuating that Pheromosa holds it back--quite the contrary; Phero is a huge reason why it's popular right now. I think Marowak will probably always be useful in OU because of what it does to Electric-types.
 
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Marowak is really good right now; it might even be good in the future after the meta removes some of the more unpleasant threats like Pheromosa; it is not, however, centralizing to the point where it needs really niche counters like Thick Fat Snorlax or Miltank/Purugle. Marowak is still rEEEEALLy slow; it's not really that hard to dispatch. Its main selling points are its typing's key resistances and its immense power.

Right now, I think Marowak is a good tank full stop. It's not Aegislash good nor will it ever be, so I think any discussion regarding niche counters is really unjustified.

EDIT: I feel I should clarify that I'm not insinuating that Pheromosa holds it back--quite the contrary; Phero is a huge reason why it's popular right now. I think Marowak will probably always be useful in OU because of what it does to Electric-types.
I agree, and I have actually been thinking about this a lot lately. A lot of electric mons are actually running hp ground in order to deal specifically with Flarowak. I think this is going to end up making Lando-t a great partner for him in order to make both of them that much harder to deal with for electrics. They then have to decide between hp ice or ground and either way one of them could potentially counter.
 
I agree, and I have actually been thinking about this a lot lately. A lot of electric mons are actually running hp ground in order to deal specifically with Flarowak. I think this is going to end up making Lando-t a great partner for him in order to make both of them that much harder to deal with for electrics. They then have to decide between hp ice or ground and either way one of them could potentially counter.
maybe maro will work well bulky grass then due to the same reasons no hp fire or ice wil benefit them a lot
 
maybe maro will work well bulky grass then due to the same reasons no hp fire or ice wil benefit them a lot
Yeah Tapu Bulu is like his ideal team mate atm as well, but I mention lando because many electric types run hp ice in order to deal with him almost specifically, however when paired with marowak they'd have to choose which one they'd rather deal with instead. The only ones this doesn't really apply to are the ones that carry shadow ball.
 
Something I think we're actually going to see a huge spike in is Tyranitar. T-Tar not only resists both of Marowak's STABs, but he can Pursuit trap or set up Stealth Rocks as Marowak runs away. It's worth noting, though, that Marowak cleanly 2HKOs with Bonemerang/EQ, so T-Tar is more of a hard check than a counter. All you really need to do is U-Turn into T-Tar and set up rocks/remove Marowak. Regardless, the ability to turn one of OU's premier tanks into a weak point is going to be crucial in this metagame.
 
Something I think we're actually going to see a huge spike in is Tyranitar. T-Tar not only resists both of Marowak's STABs, but he can Pursuit trap or set up Stealth Rocks as Marowak runs away. It's worth noting, though, that Marowak cleanly 2HKOs with Bonemerang/EQ, so T-Tar is more of a hard check than a counter. All you really need to do is U-Turn into T-Tar and set up rocks/remove Marowak. Regardless, the ability to turn one of OU's premier tanks into a weak point is going to be crucial in this metagame.
If Tyranitar trapping is too much of an issue, maybe you can leave a slot for Will-o-Wisp so that you can severely cripple it before switching out.

You'd want to run at least 68 speed EVs to outspeed min Speed Tyranitar in that case.
 
T-Tar's the main reason why I prefer WoW in the last slot.

252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EDIT: Greninja'd.
 
although theres not much reason to run any fire stab but flare blitz.
With it's pitiful HP stat and it's most common role being 'tank,' flare blitz is not necessarily the best choice. I think really it depends on your team, but Fire Punch picks up a lot of the same KOs as blitz (ferro, bulu, celesteela, dhelmise, etc), without the recoil.
Cause you're only gonna be using your fire stab for SE hits and chansey, and clicking shadow bone most of the rest of the time, and considering that the uturns, iron heads, ice beams and moonblasts alowak is supposed to eat still typically hit it for 15-30%, and it's rocks weak and has no recovery, it needs as much HP as it can get.
 
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T-Tar's the main reason why I prefer WoW in the last slot.

252+ Atk Choice Band burned Tyranitar Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

EDIT: Greninja'd.
If that's the case then you really don't even need to switch out, just hit it with a Bonemerang.
 
Biggest issue with Tyranitar in the current metagame is that its a liability against many of the top threats in OU like Genesect, Manaphy, Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, (Ash) Greninja, etc. While Tyranitar can remove Marowak, its at risk of giving one of the aforementioned Pokemon a free turn, which can be devastating.

If some of the aforementioned Pokemon are banned, however, I could see Tyranitar greatly limiting the success and viability of Marowak.
 
Alola-Marowak is very good in this meta, but honestly I think people are overreacting as if this is the second coming of Jesus and something never seen before.

Chandelure has almost the same power specially and has less defense, but is much faster and has a little more special defense. 60/90/90 is good enough defense if you Ev it. I think people just never tried to use Chandelure defensively.

Basically it's electric immunity vs fire immunity/infiltrator. Apart from the electric immunity most of the time Chandelure can always check what A-Marowak is checking (Pheromosa lol).
Instead of another "immunity" (if you choose not to use Flash Fire) Chandelure has other valuable tools like Trick, actually outspeeding something, Haze, infiltrator WoW, Energy ball for water and ground types, etc
 
Alola-Marowak is very good in this meta, but honestly I think people are overreacting as if this is the second coming of Jesus and something never seen before.

Chandelure has almost the same power specially and has less defense, but is much faster and has a little more special defense. 60/90/90 is good enough defense if you Ev it. I think people just never tried to use Chandelure defensively.

Basically it's electric immunity vs fire immunity/infiltrator. Apart from the electric immunity most of the time Chandelure can always check what A-Marowak is checking (Pheromosa lol).
Instead of another "immunity" (if you choose not to use Flash Fire) Chandelure has other valuable tools like Trick, actually outspeeding something, Haze, infiltrator WoW, Energy ball for water and ground types, etc
Except Electric immunity is incredible for it, compared to immunity to a type it already resisted, for Chandelure.

Whereas Chandelure is 2HKOed by pretty much every offensive Electric-type out there and does not get anything particularly relevant from turning its Fire-type resistance into an immunity, Marowak flat-out stops almost all Electric-types thanks to many lacking coverage that is super-effective to one of Marowak's types.

This, alongside its other nine resistances that Chandelure could take advantage of if it weren't outclassed defensively.

Given how threatening Electric-types seem to be right now... Marowak is in a much better home than Chandelure.

Also, Marowak hits much harder without significant investment thanks to the Thick Club, which lets it get some bulk. Neutral-natured Marowak with 72 Attack EVs (or uninvested Adamant) has a higher offensive stat than a Modest Chandelure with maximum Special Attack EVs, with stronger STABs and a stronger coverage move in Bonemerang to boot.
 
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Except Electric immunity is incredible for it, compared to immunity to a type it already resisted, for Chandelure.

Whereas Chandelure is 2HKOed by pretty much every offensive Electric-type out there and does not get anything particularly relevant from turning its Fire-type resistance into an immunity, Marowak flat-out stops almost all Electric-types thanks to many lacking coverage that is super-effective to one of Marowak's types.

This, alongside its other nine resistances that Chandelure could take advantage of if it weren't outclassed defensively.

Given how threatening Electric-types seem to be right now... Marowak is in a much better home than Chandelure.

Also, Marowak hits much harder without significant investment thanks to the Thick Club, which lets it get some bulk. Neutral-natured Marowak with 72 Attack EVs (or uninvested Adamant) has a higher offensive stat than a Modest Chandelure with maximum Special Attack EVs, with stronger STABs and a stronger coverage move in Bonemerang to boot.
How many top electric mons need to be stopped? Tapu Koko, Xurkitree..? So... that's all? Volt Switch I guess (in that case there are other options too)?
Dugtrio alone covers all your offensive electric type needs, while actually killing them for good.

Chandelure has Fire Blast (120), Overheat (130), Shadow Ball (80) and Hex (65/110) so Flare Blitz (120)/Shadow Bone(85) isn't "stronger STABS", at most the ghost stab hits 5 BP harder.
Ground type is good coverage... against the dreaded electric type only (steels won't come in, rocks have a lot of problems anyway, fire types won't come in because of your resistance to fire)? Ghost doesn't need much coverage anyway. Fire/Ghost is already fine with few resists.
Chandelure can threat water, ground and rock types with Energy Ball. That's 3/5, 4/5 with Ghost in terms of weaknesses covered.

Yes A-Marowak has stronger uninvested attack... with the cost of the item slot. Also A-Marowak kills itself with Flare Blitz which is bad for a pokémon which is supposed to be a check for things.
Chandelure has Trick to blast things off and to screw setupers/stallers. Also Sub+CM is a classic Chandelure set. That's good offensively and defensively. Or Leftovers if you want to go pure defensive, and you also can have Pain Split. Uninvested base 145 SpA STAB Fire Blast hurts enough for a defensive pokémon.

Speed is also important, you can burn T.Tar before it Pursuits you, you can sub before status.

So half empty half full glass.

TL;DR: A-Marowak and Chandelure are different pokémon that do different things.
As I said before A-Marowak is a GOOD pokémon and I'm not saying Chandelure is better, and definitively I'm not saying Chandy is better in the current Metagame.
I'm just surprised by the attention A-Marowak is getting as if it's suddenly revolutionary. I guess it's the Tapu Koko hype.
 
Alolan Marowak is a big deal because it actually has the tools to work with the typing it was given. Defensive Chandelure was never a big deal because the piece it was missing compared to Marowak was a really big one, and I think you're seriously underselling the value of the EV's it frees up with the Thick Club while retaining power. Thick Club turns Marowak into a Tank with attack comparable to a Wallbreaker (with no investment, it reaches 392 ATK, higher than Jolly offensive Zard-X's proper stat), and you're underselling the addition of an immunity, much less an ELECTRIC immunity. Right now maybe that just consists of Tapu Koko and Xurkitree, but how long until Pokebank brings influence from things like Mega Manectric, Thundurus, and Raikou? Not to mention that there's eating Volt Switchs to absolutely screw enemy momentum (No Shadow-Ball Magearna is a mon they both check by typing, but only Marowak outright neuters by stopping attempts to Volt Switch).

Pokebank is also going to end up phasing out Flare Blitz for Fire Punch, which nets the same relevant KO's for any A-Marowak set that runs Flare Blitz anyway. Its STABs may not have noticeably higher BP, but they're just safer and easier to spam. Shadow Bone is equal power, Fire Punch you have a case if we find a relevant KO that Flare Blitz nets over it, Bonemerang is 100 BP over two hits with no drawback (breaks Subs, Sashes, Sturdy), and none of these moves have the drawbacks or conditions of things like Overheat/Hex.

Also, in the context of the pre-bank Metagame where Tapu Koko is one of the only Electric types... why would it not be a huge deal to counter the most used mon in OU AMONG other roles? Tapu Koko is getting hyped because it offers a stupid amount of benefit to teams with its speed and coverage.

Tyranitar has to watch for Burns from Chandelure if it's a defensive set... meanwhile Marowak presents a threat with Bonemerang to discourage his entry in the first place, and a lot of the mons that give Tyranitar problems in the Meta aren't things I think will go (Tapu Koko, Ash Greninja) soon.

The reason no one used Chandelure defensively is because the set of resists it brought weren't very important beforehand: besides lacking Electric Immunity, Talonflame's prevalence in Gen 6 meant that quite a few types resisted by Fire or Flying types weren't in high demand (Fighting, Grass, Bug). Marowak's defensive profile is better than in this metagame for sure, and it's just objectively better for defensive synergy and utility blockage.
 
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