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This was one of the very first moves on our watchlist, and it officially goes back to only native users now.
As much as it can be fun to perform a great setup sweep and win, it really s to be on the receiving end, and we felt that often teams had to go out of their way to make sure they could handle Belly Drum sweepers. Bisharp in particular is immune to Prankster and can often punch through would-be walls, especially with its own access to double STAB priority and Power Trip. Definitely still very viable, especially with Sticky Webs being as common as they are.
We're happy everyone is enjoying Alphabet Cup so far and we hope this ban will allow many players to build and expand even more creative teams!
As always, if you have any ideas on how to make Alphabet Cup better, please feel free to find us on PS in the OM Room!
One of the most common issues for new players we have found is that often they don't know where to start just like every OM!
In order to assuage that, we compiled a list of moves that we feel can have a notable place in Alphabet Cup.
We categorized many of the moves into columns with a relevant header: Looking for moves that status to your opponent? Just look at that column! Boosting moves? Same story!
We're hoping that this will help many folks in their teambuilding, whether it be someone who just started out or a veteran player who just needs a refresher to some often forgotten beauties!
Some notes:
Themoves arecolor-coded!Physical/Special/Status moves correspond with their standard colors.
The primary list is ordered by those three types and then by letter.
Many of these moves were considered in a vacuum, but some also made the list due to their letter.
This is not every "good" move in the game - I'm sure we also forgot multiple: if you'd like something added, please tell us!
There are many moves we have in the larger selection that don't show in categories.
Most are "strong/great coverage moves". We did have a separate category for them, but it was too large and ended up unsightly.
Many moves could belong in a category but intentionally don't.
For example: Can Fire Blast burn? Yes, but it's likely not why you're picking it.
The Attack/SpA EVs can be interchangeable, but 184 Speed at +2 outspeeds Zeraora (even though it is never common). Fairy/Ground coverage is already amazing, but with Electric it can hit almost every Pokémon neutrally, with my only exception off the top of my head being Rotom-Heat.
With the banlist for ABC diverging from the banlist from OU, I'm not sure which mons are legal in ABC but not in OU. For example, Zamazenta is legal on ABC ladder. I'd appreciate a post close to the OP explaining what the tiering differences are between ABC and OU, since it can be hard to tell at a glance just from looking at the banlist. Thank you, and sorry if I'm missing some very obvious resource!
With the banlist for ABC diverging from the banlist from OU, I'm not sure which mons are legal in ABC but not in OU. For example, Zamazenta is legal on ABC ladder. I'd appreciate a post close to the OP explaining what the tiering differences are between ABC and OU, since it can be hard to tell at a glance just from looking at the banlist. Thank you, and sorry if I'm missing some very obvious resource!
Generally, it's the OU banlist, but with a couple extra mons banned. Many of the OMs are similar, although they obviously have their own "extra" bans.
Zamazenta and Zamazenta-C are the only "unbans".
Fun piece of trivia: originally, we had our bans as (in so many words) "the OU banlist + these other Pokemon". The main reason why this is not the standard for OMs is that, well, the OU list changes too! The biggest benefit is there are Pokemon that might rise to Ubers that aren't a problem for an OM.
The short answer is: Right now, all of the Ubers are banned except for the Zamazenta formes. There are a few Pokemon beyond that on the banlist as well.
Alphabet Cup Suspect Test!
We are doing a (modified) suspect test of Haxorus!
Players with a GXE of 70%+ and at least 25 games this month are eligible. You do not need to create a new account with a specific prefix, etc.
In order to vote, all you need to do is post a screenshot of your name on the ladder along with the relevant info.
Votes are BAN vs NOT BAN - please include this in your comment.
If you’d like, you can include your reasoning, but this is not required.
The majority of votes will determine the fate of Haxorus! It’s in your hands!
Votes will be tallied come the 1st of January which means you have the entire rest of the year to do it, so if you do not currently reach these requirements, you still have time!
I wanted to share this delightfully devillish set, its probably the best user of Octolock:
Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Strength Sap / Oblivion Wing
- Glare / Sleep Powder / Toxic
- Octolock
With you constantly weakening the foe, your attack do more damage and heal for more, even resists shouldn't scare you.
Heck, as long as they don't have a switching move, or a way to hit you hard enough, they lose a mon.
I've destroyed Blisseys with this set, because they didn't run tp.
It is recommended to have some sort of status move, to help against them damaging you too hard.
Haven't played much since earlier this month lollllll but still feel confident enough to share my thoughts.
So the main move this mon gains is Fishious Rend, along with some colour coverage. Fishious Rend generally hits a little bit weaker than STAB Outrage, and benefits from Mold Breaker, preventing Water Absorb or Storm Drain mons from being immune. You generally see this mon running a DD set, but SD and CB are theoretically usable as well. Haxorus's power level using this move is a far cry from that of Dracovish, due to lacking Strong Jaw and STAB, but it's still a decently strong move. Against offense it has a lot of killing power, but Haxorus is notably slower than some key Scarfers at +1 (Hydreigon, Latios, Terrakion, Salamence, Kartana, Zamazenta are all viable scarfers that can revenge Haxorus. Ditto too). While not frail, it can also be taken out by priority from stuff like Excadrill and Urshifu after taking some prior damage. Honourable mention goes to Zamazenta-C, just a very fat offensive check to physical sweepers, weather mons which outspeed and KO it, Grimmsnarl, who can use Prankster Reflect to set up in the face of Fishious Rend to some extent, as well as the Prankster Topsy Turvy men. Haxorus just feels like yet another good sweeper to me, against offense. It also invites in fat pivots that resist Water like Slowbro, Amoonguss, Toxapex, and Tangrowth, which can all facilitate a pivot into a revenge killer. Defensively it is a bit harder to outright check, but fat water resists like the aforementioned pivots or something like Suicune (very good mon btw) can force it to click Outrage which can be punishing. General fat mons like Mandibuzz, Buzzwole, and Umbreon can take +1 LO Outrage and hit back hard. Some phys def fairies can live +1 LO Fishious Rend too, like Magearna, Clefable, and Silvally-Fairy. But mainly, one of the best ways to handle Haxorus defensively is random-ass Strength Sap on your mons. Stuff like Skarmory, Suicune, Slowbro or any Silvally can dominate physical sweepers like Haxorus if they run this move as their main recovery.
For these combinations of factors I say NO BAN to Haxorus
Edit: Fixed Abomasnow's description (I accidentally clicked reply at first, and noticed after I posted lol)
Edit #2: Changed Froslass' description, and added the Christmas Expansion Pack!
Every Christmas team needs a tree for their presents to go under!
Abomasnow is one of the possible leads for this team, because of SnowVeil. I opted for coverage over healing, and leftovers over boots, but recovery and boots are good too. I went for leftovers because I thought grass resists rocks for some reason, (even though ice is weak to them) and for at least some recovery.
It's not a Christmas team without the Santa birb! While he may not win you games, he'll win with his overwhelming jollyness!
I built him to be like Darm mainly. While Darm is strictly better, Darm isn't Christmas themed! :(
Santa needs SOMEONE to guide his sleigh, so he needs a Reindeer!
Glaceon spreads paralisis with glare and has evasion hax in hail. The 4th move is pretty open, but I picked Eerie spell so I could hit the last few mons with neutral coverage. Glaceon should hit fairly hard thanks to it's solid Sp Atk stat.
Wait a second... How did he get in this team?! (Panik intensifies)
The 3rd possible lead for the team. Also the other evasion haxer. Sets up with SD, and Fishious Rends everything to death. Sucker Punch is the only priority on the team, and spikes can take advantage of free turns, but really any hazzard you want is fine. Spikes just happened to be on the teambuilder list. XD
Spectral Thief works in place of hazzards too
Christmas is just sad without snow, but snow more! Now you can enjoy a White Christmas for the low low price of the opponents bodies!
I picked Court Change over Rapid Spin because 4 out of 6 mons have boots already anyways, and isn't blocked by ghosts. Clangorous Soul, Recover for set-up and Freeze-Dry is a good move for a mono attacker. Cryogonal definitely has other moves it can run, but this felt pretty fun.
Yes I made an expansion pack too! Feel free to change mons around for the above team
(because the below mons weren't made to be a standalone team)
Santa's Sleigh (Avalugg) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Aqua Jet
- Body Press
- Recover
Santa can't deliver presents without his sleigh!
I went for Bulk Up so he can make use of his attack stat, Aqua Jet to cover for pesky fire and rock types and Avalugg's low speed. the rest is kinda standard.
Ever wonder where all the presents comes from? They come from the dead bodies left in this guys wake
Sandslash with improved STAB and utility/coverage. Assault Vest for added bulk.
This Teddy Bear is the gift that keeps on killing!
Beartic with improved fighting coverage (over Superpower) and better ground coverage than Bulldoze/Dig.
So you've heard of the different elements of fire, water, earth and wind? Have you ever heard of the element of Christmas?
Yeah, me neither.
Regice is a really bulky attacker with good coverage, now with access to recovery!
I've already made reqs but not voting yet, as I've only encountered Haxorus a few times when on the lower end of the ladder. I'm assuming the broken element would be a lack of defensive counterplay to SD/Scale Shot/Fishious Rend/Filler? Otherwise nothing has stood out about it to me.
The pinnacle of physical fatness with Will-O-Wisp to cripple the stuff that tries to set up on it. Non-contact physical moves are a bit more common in this meta, but nonetheless it acts like a Blissey but for a vast amount of physical attackers. Like:
252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Dubwool: 72-85 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lol. Bewear is competition since it gets the S moves, but a weakness to Flying is very annoying with Dragon Ascent everywhere and Will-O-Wisp is just perfect for this role.
I've already made reqs but not voting yet, as I've only encountered Haxorus a few times when on the lower end of the ladder. I'm assuming the broken element would be a lack of defensive counterplay to SD/Scale Shot/Fishious Rend/Filler? Otherwise nothing has stood out about it to me.
The pinnacle of physical fatness with Will-O-Wisp to cripple the stuff that tries to set up on it. Non-contact physical moves are a bit more common in this meta, but nonetheless it acts like a Blissey but for a vast amount of physical attackers. Like:
252 Atk Dragonite Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fluffy Dubwool: 72-85 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lol. Bewear is competition since it gets the S moves, but a weakness to Flying is very annoying with Dragon Ascent everywhere and Will-O-Wisp is just perfect for this role.
I was going to be like "wow dubwool has bulk cool now tell me something interesting" and then I saw your calc and decided to take it back. WoW is actually a really nice tech
Almighty out here giving low tiers an insanely nice niche
With regards to the Haxorus dealio, it's pretty much that:
It's extremely difficult to switch in on, has moldy to break water absorbers, two of the best setup moves in the game (and can run either very easily, making it hard to predict from preview), two free moveslots with coverage that most other pokemon could only dream of, tons of item freedom (boots to stop webs, life orb, Lum Berry to stop prankster status, etc, hypnosis blunder policy, and it pairs very well with Lele, which can even run Teleport to make sure Haxorus doesn't lose to prio.
On the other hand, it's Topsy bait (unless it runs accel, which is rare), loses hardcore to TR teams, and (not that it should necessarily matter, but it is still worthy of note) has pretty low usage.
Most of our bans have been pretty obvious, and we've had no trouble just going "yep this is a problem"; Haxorus doesn't feel broken enough to be a QB, but handwaving it away as "yep no problems here" we felt would be in poor taste. We both also get messages somewhat frequently about its status: We always want to be open and accessible to fans of Alphabet Cup, and we do value y'all's input.
My little brother introduced this metagame to me, he's huge into competitive Pokemon. Lowkey may have introduced me to competitive Pokemon too. I love all of the wacky and ridiculous movesets Pokemon can have in this metagame. I'm not super versed in competitive Pokemon quite yet, but surely Goodra (one of my favorite Pokemon) would be really good here? It gets stuff like Strength Sap, Sacred Fire, Glare, Giga Drain, Spectral Thief, I could go on and on. Absurd movepool options AND amazing bulk AND a great typing? That just screams excellent, right?
My little brother introduced this metagame to me, he's huge into competitive Pokemon. Lowkey may have introduced me to competitive Pokemon too. I love all of the wacky and ridiculous movesets Pokemon can have in this metagame. I'm not super versed in competitive Pokemon quite yet, but surely Goodra (one of my favorite Pokemon) would be really good here? It gets stuff like Strength Sap, Sacred Fire, Glare, Giga Drain, Spectral Thief, I could go on and on. Absurd movepool options AND amazing bulk AND a great typing? That just screams excellent, right?
Goodra @ Leftovers / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sap Sipper / Gooey
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sticky Web / Some other hazard
- Shore Up / Strength Sap
- Glare
- Spectral Thief / Tech
It has quite a bit of flexibility, and you can run it a ton of different ways. I really like it as a pivot/hazard setter, but it's up to you!
Sap Sipper gives you Leech Seed immunity and it provides an indirect way to boost your Spectral Thief hits a bit, which is all very nice.
Gooey does provide another level of speed control - depending on the opponent, Gooey might even give you a chance to free up the slot that Glare uses, which allows for a second hazard, Dragon Tail, etc.
Also, I should say, welcome to competitive Pokemon! Frankly, starting your competitive journey with an OM can be a bit more of a learning curve than using a traditional format, but I mention that only because I don't want you to get discouraged with any bumps! If it's anything, feel free to find me in the OM Room on PS and ask me questions there! Even if it's not for Alphabet Cup, I still hope I can be of assistance!
My little brother introduced this metagame to me, he's huge into competitive Pokemon. Lowkey may have introduced me to competitive Pokemon too. I love all of the wacky and ridiculous movesets Pokemon can have in this metagame. I'm not super versed in competitive Pokemon quite yet, but surely Goodra (one of my favorite Pokemon) would be really good here? It gets stuff like Strength Sap, Sacred Fire, Glare, Giga Drain, Spectral Thief, I could go on and on. Absurd movepool options AND amazing bulk AND a great typing? That just screams excellent, right?
I'm glad to see new people getting hooked on this metagame XD
I've actually been using Goodra a bit myself! And yeah, it does get a lot of good moves. It does have to watch out for the pokemon with access Dragon Energy, such as Dragapult and Hydreigon (also Dragonite, who uses dragon darts) which are very common.
I'm always down to help you build sets/teams if you want! Just pm me on my forum profile, on Showdown, or join the OM chatroom which I usually have open.
I've been on Showdown for a little over 4 years, but I only started getting into the competitive aspect this year, so I'm not the greatest when it comes to competitive, but even playing casually you'll learn stuff too.
Anyways, now for a set dump!
Exeggutor @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Solar Beam
- Earth Power
- Psychic
Eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy eggy
I've been trying to make this work on a sun team, with not too much success, but I think it has potential. It hits really hard with sun boosted Eruptions, STAB Solarbeams in grassy terrain, STAB psychic move and Earth Power to hit fire types, namely things like Heatran that resist the other attacks.
He's a good neigh-bour. You should try and explore him more.
I haven't used this set yet, but with his really high attack, and numerous ways to boost it, he makes a great Grassy Glide user. Thanks to this, he has priority in Trick Room, but he also gets Gyro Ball, which is honestly kinda scary. Both Rillaboom and Bulu have Grassy Surge and access to Trick Room too, making this something worth checking out at least.
Damn sun, where'd you find this?
Another untested set, but Solar Power and Specs with STAB boosted Hyper Voice and Volt Switch and sun-boosted Weather Ball. Tell me that doesn't sound like it hurts. It gains Healing Wish so when it can't do anything anymore, or you need another almost dead mon, you can sac and heal said mon.
Damage comparison to Primarina's Boomburst
252+ SpA Choice Specs Liquid Voice Primarina Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 327-385 (116.3 - 137%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Sun: 317-373 (112.8 - 132.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Sun: 285-336 (101.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Sun: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Solar Power Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele in Sun: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Primarina Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Lele: 222-262 (79 - 93.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Nuff said.
EDIT: The funny dolphin man ninja'd me
EDIT 2: Added calcs for Hyper Voice, Volt Switch/Moonblast and Volt Switch/Moonblast with rocks (and moved Boomburst calc to the top of them)
I play a lot and my personal opinion on Haxorus is that it's not broken as there is a tonne of priority that can stop it in it's tracks. Choice Scarfers do well too, Prankster will-o, webs, enough bulk. I vote NOT BAN.
On a side note referring back to priority beating down Haxorus
Sirfetch'd is one of my favs right now. Seems to put in a lot of work with teams atm. This is my set:
Priority and surprise sucker punch knocks a lot out and speed investment allows you to out-speed a lot of mons. Sacred Sword cause I'm sick of seeing Snorlax xD And Leaf Blade for guaranteed crit against bulky water mons.
ban haxorus, gets way too many options (rend just chunks every non-resist, fusion bolt/horn leech to hit waters, flare blitz/fire punch to hit grasses, etc.)
dropping da team cause im not gonna play this metagame anymore anyway, stall is cool
I vote NOT BAN for Haxorus, i feel its not broken with abundance of sticky webs, priority and fairy types. By the way I have seen only a single Haxorus throughout my laddering session, it feels really strange suspecting a mon with such sparse usage. Anyway that's my opinion.
I'll be voting ban. I don't think Dragon Dance is particularly an issue, but Swords Dance just blows past anything that's neutral to Fishious and a lucky Scale Shot roll will blast through anything else.
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 242+ Def Corviknight: 370-437 (92.5 - 109.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Scale Shot (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 370-435 (91.5 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Then it can choose from basically any coverage it wants to pick off the stragglers that resist both moves. Fatter teams need to rely on a well predicted switch to a prankster Topsy Turvy user or they're losing something to this without being able to do much about it.
Gotta be honest though, I feel like Darmanitan is more of an issue but I'm happy to deal with this first!
seeing as people are complaining about haxorous with fishous rend, I have found another user just as scary
Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thunderous Kick
- Fishious Rend
- Earthquake
So to round out the OMotM period I'll drop the rest of the decent sets I've been using. This has been one of my favourite metas in a while, and even though most of the ladder is identikit HO I think there's a lot of potential in lesser used mons that I rarely saw exploited.
Gigalith @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Rock Blast
- Stealth Rock
- Roar / Rapid Spin
Blanket checks most of the special meta with a bunch of utility in hazards, removal, sandstorm chip and denying enemy weather. There's so much set up in this meta that Roar is really potent.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 186-220 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery : with sand and rocks chip this is an easy switch very quickly
+2 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 159-187 (42.5 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gigalith in Sand: 121-144 (32.3 - 38.5%) -- 3.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Largely the same as in normal gameplay, but a really strong water STAB makes a big difference. Answers to common special threats like Nidoking, Tapu Lele, Primarina and so on. Future Sight is great for both breaking fatter teams and putting a dent in the momentum of offensive teams. Dragon Tail can bring unintended targets into the Future Sight which is both hilarious and potent and also as I mentioned with Gigalith phazing is just really strong in this meta.
Stuff Cheeks! When sceptile gobbles down it gets 2x def 1.5x spattk and 2x speed in one turn. Really strong against offense since both speed and defense are boosted considerably, making setup easy
Found it weird to have not seen this mon at all outside of my own usage, since people usually love Extreme Speed and it's incredibly spammable with scrappy. I go mixed with this set to exploit Boomburst access, meaning this is able to chunk a few mons the enemy cycles between to answer to it before going kamikaze with Explosion
This is Haxorus levels of fuck-defensive-teams lol. Focus Energy can't be Topsy-Turvy'd, Haze'd, Spectral Thief'd or Unaware'd, and Secret Sword covers everything your STABs don't except Tapu Fini and Bulu. Can also go for Spacial Rend and Snipe Shot if you'd like a fun 50% chance for a crit without setting up!
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 492-579 (69.9 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune on a critical hit: 378-445 (93.5 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel on a critical hit: 261-309 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Belly Drum is now banned! 
s to be on the receiving end, and we felt that often teams had to go out of their way to make sure they could handle Belly Drum sweepers. Bisharp in particular is immune to Prankster and can often punch through would-be walls, especially with its own access to double STAB priority and Power Trip. Definitely still very viable, especially with Sticky Webs being as common as they are.
out here giving low tiers an insanely nice niche
