American Politics

Don Honchkrorleone

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This is why it's hard to have empathy with such a disgraced country. The events of yesterday show the continuation of a deep crisis of the US and the neoliberal democratic model, and it's very welcome. I hope that good people don't suffer, but that what happened yesterday was only the start. A taste of US' own medicine may be helpful for the rest of the world.
 
Idk. Yesterday reminded me of the manifesto from Mission Impossible: Fallout.

The quote that started the manifesto was "There cannot be peace without first a great suffering. The greater the suffering, the greater the peace." Hopefully that was the great suffering. And hopefully we have some peace now.
 
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or what happens when [the media] calls any possibility of *potential* fraud baseless conspiracy theories from the start so people end up being isolated and radicalized

therefore claiming election fraud turned into a violent statement, the well poisoned

edit; no fraud occurred or else the trump teams would've actually came up with evidence of it happening; just that echo chambers were established from the start of election night (and before)
also this behavior for the entirety of trump's presidency and before
 
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A taste of US' own medicine may be helpful for the rest of the world.
Besides some childish view of "justice" I absolutely do not see an attempted fascist coup and crippling instability in the US as helpful at all for the rest of the world. If you think any percentage of the US population is looking at this and thinking "wow maybe what we did in South America was bad. I sure did learn my lesson" you're wrong. At best we're going to see Republicans rapidly pull back from Trump-ism and a bit of a return to normalcy. At worst we're going to see pro-Trump riots for weeks.

I'm requesting January 20th off from work just so I can watch Trump escorted out of the White House live. I can't wait.
 
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Plague von Karma

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Besides some childish view of "justice" not I absolutely do not see an attempted fascist coup and crippling instability in the US as helpful at all for the rest of the world.
There's one thing I want to add onto this.

The footage of this whole debacle will be used for Chinese and Russian propaganda for years to come. There are a few other cliques you could cite, but they are the most important and absolutely the countries that are watching closely. They have waited for something like this for years, as it allows them to substantiate their anti-democratic and anti-American rhetoric. America calls itself the most democratic country in the world, and look at what's been shown off here: the antithesis of such. These kinds of countries have shown this kind of propaganda on their political ads for years, but this is big. Very, very big. So if there's anything this coup has been "good" for, it's the countries that want America booted off the world stage so they can expand their influence. Is it good for us? No, it's fucking terrible. It's a catastrophic failure.
 

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There's one thing I want to add onto this.

The footage of this whole debacle will be used for Chinese and Russian propaganda for years to come. There are a few other cliques you could cite, but they are the most important and absolutely the countries that are watching closely. They have waited for something like this for years, as it allows them to substantiate their anti-democratic and anti-American rhetoric. America calls itself the most democratic country in the world, and look at what's been shown off here: the antithesis of such. These kinds of countries have shown this kind of propaganda on their political ads for years, but this is big. Very, very big. So if there's anything this coup has been "good" for, it's the countries that want America booted off the world stage so they can expand their influence. Is it good for us? No, it's fucking terrible. It's a catastrophic failure.
This is nitpicking on a post I greatly agree with, but I feel it's useful context: At least Russia hasn't just been waiting; they've been actively using real/perceived American/western miscarriages as persuasion since the Soviet days, and have continued to actively do so as modern Russia has turned away from the west in the past decade and a half (eg criticizing of the Kosovo intervention as unilateral). Kosovo reminds us that Russia isn't just working from a moral angle, but from a stability angle as well, especially with the instability Eastern Europe/the Caucasus/Central Asia has had in the past twenty five years. That stability angle just got a good bit stronger with the recent Capitol events.
 
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It's a catastrophic failure.
It would be a catastrophic failure if it had succeeded. It's doubtlessly a shameful event, but I think the revulsion it inspired and a recency bias are causing us to overstate its importance. As it stands, Trump will be out of office in less than two weeks, and the Biden administration will have years to work to repair the damage done to US international standing. Of course he won't be able to repair it entirely, nor will he be able to check the rise of China as a competing superpower. But that rise was already underway before Trump was elected.
 
It's impressive how in just one sentence some posters can distort, oversimplify, and take out of context what others write, isn't it? :heart:
 
How is it remotely out of context?
Sam was misapplying what I said about the broader political ramifications of the event to the feelings of non-politicians like us. I agree that it was a pretty terrifying day, and nowhere did my post deny that. But in the context of long-term foreign policy and the international balance of power, our being afraid doesn't change much.
 
people will legit watch the united states be the most evil entity in history and be like 'noooo its world standing is falling! now china will take over!' like ;_; what the hell


edit: mrhands' reply to this was so fucked up that i put them on ignore instantly. someone else can deal with that
 
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Well my relatives on Facebook are already saying that antifa plants did it to hurt trump.

I’m at a loss.
I mean there's the video of the viking literally screaming his support for Trump. - VIKING SCREAM

There's also a good ol' fact check that you can use. - https://www.politifact.com/factchec...ainted-man-horned-fur-cap-capitol-riot-suppo/

Just shove the facts in their face and let them cry. It doesn't matter what they think, but it's important to meet their idiocy head on with facts so the dozens of more neutral or unsure onlookers have a chance to understand reality. If they argue on just ask them for evidence. If they post any most of the time Facebook automatically just links to a fact check website for you lol.

people will legit watch the united states be the most evil entity in history and be like 'noooo its world standing is falling! now china will take over!' like ;_; what the hell
China literally has concentration camps right now and you're trying to call the US the most evil entity in history? I get the US isn't a perfect utopia but its global hegemony and economic / military dominance has helped bring the world into the most peaceful, economically prosperous time in human history. The web of secure alliances worldwide has all but guaranteed peace to any nation willing to work with the US. Obviously the US is working with its own best interest in mind, as literally every nation does, but it has a wonderful side effect of ensuring military and economic security to almost every global power.

Edit: if you're going to block someone for replying to a post you made on a public forum then maybe you shouldn't make posts on a public forum.
 
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Don Honchkrorleone

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If you think any percentage of the US population is looking at this and thinking "wow maybe what we did in South America was bad. I sure did learn my lesson" you're wrong.
That's not what I'm expecting, though. I'm expecting and hoping for pain, chaos, and the beginning of the end of this detestable system.
 
The web of secure alliances worldwide has all but guaranteed peace to any nation willing to work with the US. Obviously the US is working with its own best interest in mind
oopsie! you said the quiet part out loud!

it has a wonderful side effect of ensuring military and economic security to almost every global power.
unless you live in the middle east or south america ig...

also, last time i checked there were still concentration camps on the us border. or did those all go away when the blue team won the election?
 
oopsie! you said the quiet part out loud!
Name one single nation in human history that consistently acts to sacrifice its own best interest in favor of others. Just kidding, you can't. Because any nation that does that would quickly have an uprising by the people to replace a corrupt government or would otherwise gradually bleed global influence. Sorry but in the real world you can't be the nice guy every time. All nations work in the interest of their people and allies even if it is sometimes to the detriment of others.

unless you live in the middle east
Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait, Oman, Pakistan, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Yemen, Egypt, and Turkey all have extremely close military, economic, and intelligence networks with the US. The US donates a lot of money to all of them to help keep their nations secure and offers military assistance when needed (ISIS / drone strikes). That doesn't mean the US is "best buddies" with them but if you're implying that the US has brought untold destruction and ruin to "the entire middle east" that's a horribly simplistic view.

Edit: Also Israel is an ally, how did I forget that one lol.

We don't like Iran, ISIS, Hezbollah, Al Houthi, Hamas, or Syria though but there's pretty solid reasons for all of these.

or south america ig...
Besides Venezuela and Bolivia virtually every nation in South America is a democracy and has close trade ties with the US. In modern day with the exception of mostly 2010-2015 Venezuela US - South / Latin America relations have been cordial.

Unless you're trying to reference the US funded revolutions in the 70s during the cold war in which case... who gives a fuck. That's just what happens when two superpowers are fighting over control of the world. The Soviet Union did the same and generally they were much more brutal about it. Also if you're really desperate to smear the US over things that happened decades ago Germany did that thing with Hitler. That was bad. Also the British Empire sure did ruin some nations. Do we still hold that against them or, maybe, is it only reasonably to judge a nation by their more recent choices?

also, last time i checked there were still concentration camps on the us border. or did those all go away when the blue team won the election?
I oppose the US's current immigration policy but yes, most likely we'll see it relaxed a bit now that the Democrats have control of the house, senate, and presidency. But also while I disagree with it those people snuck across the border and, at least for the most part, came here illegally. What did the people in China's concentration camps do? Huge god damn difference and trying to compare border detention to China's ethnic cleansing is disgusting.
 
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Unless you're trying to reference the US funded revolutions in the 70s during the cold war in which case... who gives a fuck. That's just what happens when two superpowers are fighting over control of the world. The Soviet Union did the same and generally they were much more brutal about it. Also if you're really desperate to smear the US over things that happened decades ago Germany did that thing with Hitler. That was bad. Also the British Empire sure did ruin some nations. Do we still hold that against them or, maybe, is it only reasonably to judge a nation by their more recent choices?
I think the millions of people negatively affected by US-backed regime changes that destabilized countries for decades to come might give a fuck. Your take is needlessly callous. You can acknowledge the (vastly) detrimental impacts of American imperialism while still being fearful of growing Chinese hegemony.

I mean I can agree that I feel safer under US global hegemony than I might under Chinese hegemony, as might be natural for any US citizen to feel, but c'mon...
 

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