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Matthew

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I'm glad that Trump and all of the facist groups associated with him are being completely de-platformed universally, but i'll be honest I'm sad that a large population will never be able to go back and search how absolutely visionary some of his shitposting was pre-presidency and it's a shame there's no Trump archive twitter account that can post some of the most ridiculous shit he's posted throughout the years so we can laugh at him.
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I can't believe this guy won the presidency tweeting like dril
You're forgetting that his tweets are apart of the national archive and the internet never forgets. I'm sure we're going to be good on memes for a bit.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
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Just so we're entirely clear about what happened here:
These 8 petititions were all requests to expedite review (of cases that SCOTUS was most likely not going to review anyway). By declining to expedite review, virtually all of the cases became moot as soon as the electoral college votes were certified, and if not then, then certainly after inauguration. And now that they've done this action today to decline to expedite review, they won't act on any of these again until after inauguration anyway.

Two other related cases may still eventually get heard, both from Pennsylvania, however they are about issues that all parties have already acknowledged would not affect enough votes to change the presidential election. This case has already come up to the US Supreme Court once and Justice Alito, who handles emergency petitions from the circuit court that contains Pennsylvania, ordered Pennsylvania to segregate the ballots in question so they could be counted separately if needed, subject to later litigation. Pennsylvania in turn complied and ordered all of its clerks, etc to do so, so the number of ballots that arrived late is known and is (far) less than the margin by which Biden won the state. A bit under 10,000 votes came in that would be in question per these cases, and Pennsyvlania has determined that aside from the presidential race (where 10,000 is clearly not enough to change anything since Biden won by around 80,000) no other federal races were impacted either. So in terms of 2020 itself the case is moot.

If SCOTUS agrees to hear those it would purely be advisory for future elections, and even though courts don't really like hearing cases about things that are no longer relevant, they also really hate election lawsuits under tight timelines. So they might hear a case about these PA issues, just so they can opine about the issues at hand and clarify things for 2022 and beyond. In my opinion, these cases are pretty bad examples for SCOTUS to use to set any case law so I think it is more likely that they pass, but who knows.

The gist of the PA case is:
The Pennsylvania state supreme court, interpreting Pennsylvania state law and the Pennsylvania state constitution, required the state to count absentee ballots that arrived up to three days late as long as they were not clearly postmarked after election day (based on evidence from the post office that delays would occur in such a way that Pennsylvania's statutory deadlines would result in some people who followed all the rules and deadlines that were intended to help them vote by mail end up with their votes not getting counted due to circumstances that were unforeseen when the state's election law was enacted). Article I of the Constitution places the power for setting the "time, place, and manner" of elections in the hands of state legislatures, subject to laws made by the US Congress, which has enacted a law setting a uniform day for these elections, which we know as Election Day - whichever day between November 2 and November 8 is a Tuesday in a given year.

Pennsylvania republicans are challenging that 1) the state Supreme Court had the authority to do anything with respect to the "time, place, and manner" since they say that's a power of the legislature, and/or 2) whether what the result of what the court did (ie allowing the counting of mail in votes that arrive up to 3 days late) violated the federal statute that sets one election day nationwide.

Both arguments have serious issues with them.

The first argument more or less says "because the US constitution says it is the state legislatures responsibility that means it is 100% the state legislature's responsibility and there is no mechanism for a state court reviewing whatever the legislature says". Obviously that's not the case otherwise there wouldn't be lawsuits in state courts related to elections, which there have been long before 2020... The purpose of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision was to interpret the constitutionality of the voting system that was going to be used, per the Pennsylvania State Constitution. There is ample case law that says that state election law MUST comply with state constitutions, so there really should be no argument here that a state court could review. All state legislation is subject to state constitutional law. There's no special carveout for elections. Ultimately the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that the unforeseen postal delays impacted the existing voting law so much that they became unconstitutional because of how it would disenfranchise voters whose ballots would fail to arrive on time, even though they would request a mail in ballot on time and maybe would even put them back in the mail on time, through no fault of their own. So in summary, the Article I provision that gives power to state legislatures very clearly does not give it solely to them - it is still subject to review for constitutionality under the state constitution. So it is pretty much guaranteed that SCOTUS would not agree with the main argument and say that the PA supreme court wasn't allowed to review. If we then assume that the PA supreme court was within their rights to review, what SCOTUS could instead say here to overturn on these grounds would be "yes you could review, but you reviewed incorrectly" ...but that is also not a plausible thing for SCOTUS to do here, since the PA Supreme Court said the election law was an as-applied violation of the Pennsylvania State Constitution, not the US constitution, and SCOTUS is highly unlikely to step in and say no actually we're the experts on your constitution and you interpreted it wrong. As a matter of law and policy, SCOTUS does not review state court judgments in cases that only have to do with state law. The only way SCOTUS could review therefore the PA court's decision as pertains to the state constitution is if the state court ruling violated the US constitution, but the plaintiffs haven't articulated clearly how that could be so. If the state court is authorized under the US constitution to review, then surely no decision they reach is inherently unconstitutional. It could be that this particular decision is unconstitutional if it created an unconstitutional system itself, i.e. the PA Supreme Court couldn't decide that everyone named Steve's votes would count double, since that violates one-person one-vote. But it's hard to say what the violation would be here in allowing mail in votes to arrive late, since it was applied equally to all voters statewide. All in all, this argument doesn't seem very likely to succeed to me.

The second argument that the federal statute designating one day as Election Day somehow forbids counting mail in ballots postmarked before but received after election day has its whole own other set of issues. The general interpretation (and there is no real division among courts on this...) is that votes must be cast on or before election day. This is why early voting is a thing, this is why mail in voting is a thing (no one can have a mail in vote that is both cast and received on election day... the mail doesn't work that fast!). No one has ever won a case to my knowledge that the federal law designating one single day as election day means that votes received by mail after, but postmarked before, Election Day cannot be counted when a state has decided that they would like to do so. Indeed, Pennsylvania is not the only state that accepts such ballots. A number of states have allowed this even before 2020, and some more began doing so for this cycle due to the increased amount of mail in votes and expected postal delays related to COVID. Nor is 3 days in any way unusual or "generous". Some states allow votes that arrive even 2 weeks after election day. If Pennsylvania isn't allowed to do this, then neither are like 20 other states. Even beyond the 20 or so states that accept ballots received by mail after election day, there's all kinds of other votes that are accepted after election day, such as cases where an absentee ballot received on or before election day and is "cured" after election day or cases where military/oversees voters might have deadlines that allow them to have their votes counted late, even if other absentee votes are not, etc. There's just no way that SCOTUS takes the bite here and throws general chaos into the world by requiring that ALL votes must be received by election day, when the current state election law patchwork has been working "fine".
 
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Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Just so we're entirely clear about what happened here:
These 8 petititions were all requests to expedite review (of cases that SCOTUS was most likely not going to review anyway). By declining to expedite review, virtually all of the cases became moot as soon as the electoral college votes were certified, and if not then, then certainly after inauguration. And now that they've done this action today to decline to expedite review, they won't act on any of these again until after inauguration anyway.

Two other related cases may still eventually get heard, both from Pennsylvania, however they are about issues that all parties have already acknowledged would not affect enough votes to change the presidential election. This case has already come up to the US Supreme Court once and Justice Alito, who handles emergency petitions from the circuit court that contains Pennsylvania, ordered Pennsylvania to segregate the ballots in question so they could be counted separately if needed, subject to later litigation. Pennsylvania in turn complied and ordered all of its clerks, etc to do so, so the number of ballots that arrived late is known and is (far) less than the margin by which Biden won the state. A bit under 10,000 votes came in that would be in question per these cases, and Pennsyvlania has determined that aside from the presidential race (where 10,000 is clearly not enough to change anything since Biden won by around 80,000) no other federal races were impacted either. So in terms of 2020 itself the case is moot.

If SCOTUS agrees to hear those it would purely be advisory for future elections, and even though courts don't really like hearing cases about things that are no longer relevant, they also really hate election lawsuits under tight timelines. So they might hear a case about these PA issues, just so they can opine about the issues at hand and clarify things for 2022 and beyond. In my opinion, these cases are pretty bad examples for SCOTUS to use to set any case law so I think it is more likely that they pass, but who knows.

The gist of the PA case is:
The Pennsylvania state supreme court, interpreting Pennsylvania state law and the Pennsylvania state constitution, required the state to count absentee ballots that arrived up to three days late as long as they were not clearly postmarked after election day (based on evidence from the post office that delays would occur in such a way that Pennsylvania's statutory deadlines would result in some people who followed all the rules and deadlines that were intended to help them vote by mail end up with their votes not getting counted due to circumstances that were unforeseen when the state's election law was enacted). Article I of the Constitution places the power for setting the "time, place, and manner" of elections in the hands of state legislatures, subject to laws made by the US Congress, which has enacted a law setting a uniform day for these elections, which we know as Election Day - whichever day between November 2 and November 8 is a Tuesday in a given year.

Pennsylvania republicans are challenging that 1) the state Supreme Court had the authority to do anything with respect to the "time, place, and manner" since they say that's a power of the legislature, and/or 2) whether what the result of what the court did (ie allowing the counting of mail in votes that arrive up to 3 days late) violated the federal statute that sets one election day nationwide.

Both arguments have serious issues with them.

The first argument more or less says "because the US constitution says it is the state legislatures responsibility that means it is 100% the state legislature's responsibility and there is no mechanism for a state court reviewing whatever the legislature says". Obviously that's not the case otherwise there wouldn't be lawsuits in state courts related to elections, which there have been long before 2020... The purpose of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court decision was to interpret the constitutionality of the voting system that was going to be used, per the Pennsylvania State Constitution. There is ample case law that says that state election law MUST comply with state constitutions, so there really should be no argument here that a state court could review. All state legislation is subject to state constitutional law. There's no special carveout for elections. Ultimately the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that the unforeseen postal delays impacted the existing voting law so much that they became unconstitutional because of how it would disenfranchise voters whose ballots would fail to arrive on time, even though they would request a mail in ballot on time and maybe would even put them back in the mail on time, through no fault of their own. So in summary, the Article I provision that gives power to state legislatures very clearly does not give it solely to them - it is still subject to review for constitutionality under the state constitution. So it is pretty much guaranteed that SCOTUS would not agree with the main argument and say that the PA supreme court wasn't allowed to review. If we then assume that the PA supreme court was within their rights to review, what SCOTUS could instead say here to overturn on these grounds would be "yes you could review, but you reviewed incorrectly" ...but that is also not a plausible thing for SCOTUS to do here, since the PA Supreme Court said the election law was an as-applied violation of the Pennsylvania State Constitution, not the US constitution, and SCOTUS is highly unlikely to step in and say no actually we're the experts on your constitution and you interpreted it wrong. As a matter of law and policy, SCOTUS does not review state court judgments in cases that only have to do with state law. The only way SCOTUS could review therefore the PA court's decision as pertains to the state constitution is if the state court ruling violated the US constitution, but the plaintiffs haven't articulated clearly how that could be so. If the state court is authorized under the US constitution to review, then surely no decision they reach is inherently unconstitutional. It could be that this particular decision is unconstitutional if it created an unconstitutional system itself, i.e. the PA Supreme Court couldn't decide that everyone named Steve's votes would count double, since that violates one-person one-vote. But it's hard to say what the violation would be here in allowing mail in votes to arrive late, since it was applied equally to all voters statewide. All in all, this argument doesn't seem very likely to succeed to me.

The second argument that the federal statute designating one day as Election Day somehow forbids counting mail in ballots postmarked before but received after election day has its whole own other set of issues. The general interpretation (and there is no real division among courts on this...) is that votes must be cast on or before election day. This is why early voting is a thing, this is why mail in voting is a thing (no one can have a mail in vote that is both cast and received on election day... the mail doesn't work that fast!). No one has ever won a case to my knowledge that the federal law designating one single day as election day means that votes received by mail after, but postmarked before, Election Day cannot be counted when a state has decided that they would like to do so. Indeed, Pennsylvania is not the only state that accepts such ballots. A number of states have allowed this even before 2020, and some more began doing so for this cycle due to the increased amount of mail in votes and expected postal delays related to COVID. Nor is 3 days in any way unusual or "generous". Some states allow votes that arrive even 2 weeks after election day. If Pennsylvania isn't allowed to do this, then neither are like 20 other states. Even beyond the 20 or so states that accept ballots received by mail after election day, there's all kinds of other votes that are accepted after election day, such as cases where an absentee ballot received on or before election day and is "cured" after election day or cases where military/oversees voters might have deadlines that allow them to have their votes counted late, even if other absentee votes are not, etc. There's just no way that SCOTUS takes the bite here and throws general chaos into the world by requiring that ALL votes must be received by election day, when the current state election law patchwork has been working "fine".
Want to give a tl;dr?
 
Here’s a testimonial from a concentration camp survivor in China: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ng-re-education-camp-china-gulbahar-haitiwaji

I’d suggest anyone defending China to get a clue and read this.

On a different note, I read this 1941 essay yesterday by Dorothy Thompson, thought it was very interesting: https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

good read for anyone like me who’s been blindsided by just how many people are full on nazis. Really I’m ashamed of my own ignorance that I ignored the people warning about this for years. The only way to defeat nazism is to aggressively fight against it, not tolerate it/just hope the ignorant shame themselves. Letting them “shame themselves” has just allowed them to recruit more members.
 
Here’s a testimonial from a concentration camp survivor in China: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ng-re-education-camp-china-gulbahar-haitiwaji

I’d suggest anyone defending China to get a clue and read this.

On a different note, I read this 1941 essay yesterday by Dorothy Thompson, thought it was very interesting: https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

good read for anyone like me who’s been blindsided by just how many people are full on nazis. Really I’m ashamed of my own ignorance that I ignored the people warning about this for years. The only way to defeat nazism is to aggressively fight against it, not tolerate it/just hope the ignorant shame themselves. Letting them “shame themselves” has just allowed them to recruit more members.
damn you got me. i'm sure this month's WUC article will be completely different from the last one and not have any holes in it.
 
Last year Twitter and Facebook censored an article (from ny post) in which they exposed a corruption case involving Joe Biden, his son, Hunter Biden and a Ukrainian gas company, apparently because it was based on untrue facts, but on the other hand, they allow all lies on Russia's so called "influence" in US institutions. I even remember both democrats and republicans representatives saying how bad was (and still is, according to them) the Chinese censorship when they banned platforms such as Facebook and Twitter for not having collaborated with authorities after protests and attacks to its institutions, which were full of violence. So yes, as you just said, unfortunately most regulators lack any real understanding of the problems inherent to their naive and dangerous notion of 'free speech'.

Twitter has censored and suspended accounts from countries, organizations and individuals when the US government and its think tanks ask to, but it didn't suspend representatives for having instigated conflicts in other countries or Trump himself for having threatened nuclear war, they simply waited for his followers to consume a bunch of lies and desinformation to take the congress and consume an alleged coup. Anyway, I guess this is what they needed.

tl;dr: "Apparently Russian disinformation is not allowed, but articles exposing Russian disinformation campaigns are somehow allowed!"

Fun fact: Emma Jo Morris was the Hannity staffer who scheduled Shokin's planned interview with Hannity. So that means Rudy Giuliani couldn't find another hack to carry water for Russian foreign intelligence. Sad!


Not really bro... for anyone familiar w/ left-tube and who still watches left-tube, the show is basically the same kind of content and arguments that you’ll hear if you watch Secular Talk, Humanist Report, Rational National, TMBS, Jimmy Dore etc. I don’t get anything from rising that I don’t also consume from left tube (and so many episodes feature left-tubers or leftist SME’s like Brianna Joy Grey, Richard Wolff, etc. anyway)
If you are a Jacobin reader/watcher or the type of person who follows Glenn Greenwald, than watching Rising is just stroking your world view.

If you’re a leftist who watches left tube, Krystal Ball isn’t converting you to the GOP (lol wtf) or instilling a hate for Democrats that you didn’t already have. After Bernie left, of course Saagar’s politics took more center because Krystal had no real skin in the game (like most Berners), but the Bernie left was pretty much the anchor of the show until Bernie lost, and while the audience has DNC haters of all stripes, the audience is obviously biased left reading through the comments.
She’s just stoking the same existing hate for liberals you’d go to Jimmy Dore or Chapo Trap House to get stoked anyway— using the same facts, making the same arguments; just professionally polished and often making those same left-tube arguments to the face of shallow, obviously corrupt DNC operatives/experts stupid enough to keep going on the show for some reason. The only difference between Rising episodes and a given left tube segment is that one of these I’d send to my Mom.

Also if you’re a leftist who watches the show, you’re not going to be convinced to Saagar’s POV— but you will see where the right may be pursuadable to collaborate on populist goals given certain conditions and framing.

If you actually think this, it means you are just not aware of how much hate the left has for the Democrats and liberal mainstream at large.
Since comprehensive posts explaining why what you're reading is paid trash from the Republican Party is apparently a bannable offense, I'm just going to leave this here:

frost socialists should be republicans.png
 
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I know no one gives a shit anymore since Trump is gone and politics became less interesting but Biden's first few days have been pretty nice.


Reversed Muslim ban

Ordered an aggressive response to COVID

Border wall construction halted

Signed a 2 year lobbying ban

US rejoins the WHO

Supported protections for DACA

Ended the 1776 Commission

Began counting non-citizens in census surveys

Repealed Trump's ICE arrest priorities

White House website mentions climate change again

US rejoins the Paris agreement

Keystone Pipeline construction halted

Student loan payments suspension extended

Directed federal agencies to increase vehicle fuel economy and emission standards

Restored protections for federal workers, and laid the foundation for a $15 federal minimum wage.

Accelerated manufacturing and delivery of supplies for vaccination, testing and PPE.

Increased SNAP (food stamp) benefits by 15%.

Biden reaffirms commitment to making Roe v. Wade into federal law.

Directs FEMA to create federally-supported community vaccination centers.

Requested that the Dept of Education create a plan for the safe reopening of schools.

Masks are now required on airplanes, buses, and trains.

Biden denounces white supremacy. White supremacists are outraged.

Goal set for 100 million vaccinated within 100 days.

Jessica Rosenworcel, new chairperson of the FCC, states she is in favor of net neutrality.

Biden mentions Social Security reform, addressing growing funding concerns. Minimum SS payout will be 125% federal poverty level with an increase in payment to existing beneficiaries.

Democrats begin writing a bill that would guarantee early voting rights, same-day registration and other voting reforms.


Seems good so far. He still appears to be serious about 15 an hour min wage, student debt relief, and public schools covering grades 1-14 instead of only 1-12. Hopefully after Covid is under control he'll also be able to start chipping away at the hellhole that is the US healthcare system. I don't think anyone has super high expectations for Biden but... so far I'm pretty happy.
 
I know no one gives a shit anymore since Trump is gone and politics became less interesting but Biden's first few days have been pretty nice.


Reversed Muslim ban

Ordered an aggressive response to COVID

Border wall construction halted

Signed a 2 year lobbying ban

US rejoins the WHO

Supported protections for DACA

Ended the 1776 Commission

Began counting non-citizens in census surveys

Repealed Trump's ICE arrest priorities

White House website mentions climate change again

US rejoins the Paris agreement

Keystone Pipeline construction halted

Student loan payments suspension extended

Directed federal agencies to increase vehicle fuel economy and emission standards

Restored protections for federal workers, and laid the foundation for a $15 federal minimum wage.

Accelerated manufacturing and delivery of supplies for vaccination, testing and PPE.

Increased SNAP (food stamp) benefits by 15%.

Biden reaffirms commitment to making Roe v. Wade into federal law.

Directs FEMA to create federally-supported community vaccination centers.

Requested that the Dept of Education create a plan for the safe reopening of schools.

Masks are now required on airplanes, buses, and trains.

Biden denounces white supremacy. White supremacists are outraged.

Goal set for 100 million vaccinated within 100 days.

Jessica Rosenworcel, new chairperson of the FCC, states she is in favor of net neutrality.

Biden mentions Social Security reform, addressing growing funding concerns. Minimum SS payout will be 125% federal poverty level with an increase in payment to existing beneficiaries.

Democrats begin writing a bill that would guarantee early voting rights, same-day registration and other voting reforms.


Seems good so far. He still appears to be serious about 15 an hour min wage, student debt relief, and public schools covering grades 1-14 instead of only 1-12. Hopefully after Covid is under control he'll also be able to start chipping away at the hellhole that is the US healthcare system. I don't think anyone has super high expectations for Biden but... so far I'm pretty happy.
He's done more in 47 hours than Trump in 47 months.
 
I know no one gives a shit anymore since Trump is gone and politics became less interesting but Biden's first few days have been pretty nice.


Reversed Muslim ban

Ordered an aggressive response to COVID

Border wall construction halted

Signed a 2 year lobbying ban

US rejoins the WHO

Supported protections for DACA

Ended the 1776 Commission

Began counting non-citizens in census surveys

Repealed Trump's ICE arrest priorities

White House website mentions climate change again

US rejoins the Paris agreement

Keystone Pipeline construction halted

Student loan payments suspension extended

Directed federal agencies to increase vehicle fuel economy and emission standards

Restored protections for federal workers, and laid the foundation for a $15 federal minimum wage.

Accelerated manufacturing and delivery of supplies for vaccination, testing and PPE.

Increased SNAP (food stamp) benefits by 15%.

Biden reaffirms commitment to making Roe v. Wade into federal law.

Directs FEMA to create federally-supported community vaccination centers.

Requested that the Dept of Education create a plan for the safe reopening of schools.

Masks are now required on airplanes, buses, and trains.

Biden denounces white supremacy. White supremacists are outraged.

Goal set for 100 million vaccinated within 100 days.

Jessica Rosenworcel, new chairperson of the FCC, states she is in favor of net neutrality.

Biden mentions Social Security reform, addressing growing funding concerns. Minimum SS payout will be 125% federal poverty level with an increase in payment to existing beneficiaries.

Democrats begin writing a bill that would guarantee early voting rights, same-day registration and other voting reforms.


Seems good so far. He still appears to be serious about 15 an hour min wage, student debt relief, and public schools covering grades 1-14 instead of only 1-12. Hopefully after Covid is under control he'll also be able to start chipping away at the hellhole that is the US healthcare system. I don't think anyone has super high expectations for Biden but... so far I'm pretty happy.
It definitely feels good not to have a corrupt idiot in office.
 

Myzozoa

to find better ways to say what nobody says
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All of that stuff is good, but one thing I'd still really want to see is DHS completely disbanded.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrant...f-homeland-security-its-tactics-are-fearsome/
sci-hub.se/10.1215/01636545-2003-85-82

the section on homeland in the second link is a useful analysis of the fundamentally totalitarian ideology and repressive historical practice built into the concept of homeland security.
Yeah I have no idea what he's actually going to do here. He's definitely pro-immigration but it's anyone's guess what the result will be. He plans on addressing immigration on Friday the 29th via Executive orders. The planned schedule for this next week is (copy / pasted from CNN)


Monday, January 25
Billed as "Buy American" day, Biden is expected to sign one executive order directing agencies to "strengthen requirements for procuring goods and services from sources that will support US businesses and workers."

Tuesday, January 26
Tuesday focuses on equity, with a list of executive orders that will:
  • Create a policing commission and reinstate Obama-era policy on the transfer of military-style equipment to local law enforcement.
  • Establish steps to improve prison conditions and eliminate the use of private prisons.
  • Formally disavow discrimination against the Asian American and Pacific Islander community, which, the document says, comes "particularly in light of rhetoric around the Covid-19 pandemic."
Biden also plans to sign a memorandum directing Housing and Urban Development to take steps to promote equitable housing politics.

Wednesday, January 27
The climate crisis will come into view on Wednesday with an executive order initiating regulatory actions to "combat climate change domestically and elevates climate change as a national security priority," along with the re-establishment of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology.
Biden is also due to sign a a memorandum on scientific integrity.

Thursday, January 28
Health care is set be the the theme on Thursday with Biden set to rescind the Mexico City Policy and review the Title X Domestic Gag Rule. There may also be an executive action on Medicaid, as well as the initiation of open enrollment under the Affordable Care Act.

Friday, January 29
Finally, Biden is expected to center on immigration on Friday with executive orders on regional migration and border processing, the US refugee policy and the establishment of a family reunification Task Force, as well as an executive order directing immediate review of the Public Charge Rule.

I think Biden is focusing on EOs while the Senate gets its shit together, but presumably once they do he'll start signing off on actual laws. Maybe it's because Trump set the bar so incredibly low, but I've been really pleasantly surprised with Biden so far.
 

shadowpea

everyone is lonely sometimes
is a Tiering Contributor
Here’s a testimonial from a concentration camp survivor in China: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ng-re-education-camp-china-gulbahar-haitiwaji

I’d suggest anyone defending China to get a clue and read this.

On a different note, I read this 1941 essay yesterday by Dorothy Thompson, thought it was very interesting: https://harpers.org/archive/1941/08/who-goes-nazi/

good read for anyone like me who’s been blindsided by just how many people are full on nazis. Really I’m ashamed of my own ignorance that I ignored the people warning about this for years. The only way to defeat nazism is to aggressively fight against it, not tolerate it/just hope the ignorant shame themselves. Letting them “shame themselves” has just allowed them to recruit more members.
I'm still going to defend China because I'm Chinese and spent most of my life there. I'm not proud of what it has done, true, but the US has also done some less-than-glamorous things.

What? I'm gonna have to be honest, don't I?

Anyway, when people say China is bad, they are really saying their government is bad. And I can't argue with that. I think their government is messed up too. I consider myself a Democrat and don't like communism. However, Chinese citizens are...just ordinary people. Communists, perhaps, but still ordinary people. They eat like us, they work like us, they go to school like us... they are just like most Americans, but with a different skin color and living in a different location. And I should know. I lived in China for about half of my life and it is not way too different from us. Sure, the Chinese government isn't great, but, for the sake of argument, what has my old neighbors done to you? My grandparents? My second-grade teacher? A lot of people just hate every last Chinese just because of what their government has done. And I bet a lot of Chinese are like that, except in reverse. This is illogical. You are blaming all of the Chinese for, what 1% of them did? And a lot of people still blames China for COVID-19 simply because it originated there. There is just a lot of racism against Chinese right now.

Again, I'm not defending what the Chinese government has done. After reading that article it is obvious that they have done some truly terrible things. I'm just defending ordinary Chinese citizens like me.

Thank you for reading.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Unfortunately you're right that there's a lot of racism against Chinese people right now. A lot of that is stoked by the impeached former president repeatedly calling COVID the China virus, makes the "foreigners" as easy target to blame for his own failings. As you rightly say for the people who aren't racist it's the government that is problematic, as with examples like the Uyghur muslim ethnic cleansing situation you have a government acting equally as totalitarian as Putin or Trump, despite the surface view of a communist party. It's the people who are willing to make those decisions that are the problem, not the ordinary citizenry.
 
I'm still going to defend China because I'm Chinese and spent most of my life there. I'm not proud of what it has done, true, but the US has also done some less-than-glamorous things.

What? I'm gonna have to be honest, don't I?

Anyway, when people say China is bad, they are really saying their government is bad. And I can't argue with that. I think their government is messed up too. I consider myself a Democrat and don't like communism. However, Chinese citizens are...just ordinary people. Communists, perhaps, but still ordinary people. They eat like us, they work like us, they go to school like us... they are just like most Americans, but with a different skin color and living in a different location. And I should know. I lived in China for about half of my life and it is not way too different from us. Sure, the Chinese government isn't great, but, for the sake of argument, what has my old neighbors done to you? My grandparents? My second-grade teacher? A lot of people just hate every last Chinese just because of what their government has done. And I bet a lot of Chinese are like that, except in reverse. This is illogical. You are blaming all of the Chinese for, what 1% of them did? And a lot of people still blames China for COVID-19 simply because it originated there. There is just a lot of racism against Chinese right now.

Again, I'm not defending what the Chinese government has done. After reading that article it is obvious that they have done some truly terrible things. I'm just defending ordinary Chinese citizens like me.

Thank you for reading.
Bro your government has people in concentration camps. China literally slaughtered thousands of people in Tiananmen Square and ground up their bodies with tanks until their entrails clogged up the streets. China is so good at killing their own people over the last several decades that Wikipedia has its own page devoted to it. The Chinese government is a weird mismatch of capitalism and fascism that grinds on for any form of power and control it can get. It's genuinely awful and absolutely factually worse than anything the US has done, although I'm no fan of the State's foreign policy post 9/11. Probably the only reason Taiwan is still independent is the United States vague defense pact. LGBT are treated horribly in China. China sells prisoner organs. China censors everything. People disappear in China for posting pictures of Winnie the fucking Pooh. China is terrible.

But Chinese people? People are people. Chinese people are great. They're humans just like anyone else. Same with Russians, North Koreans, Iranians etc. You can't judge people by the government. No, I have no issues with your neighbors, grandparents, or second grade teachers. But yes I absolutely have issue with the people that ordered tanks to run over protesters or people who sent the Uyghurs into camps. Fuck the Chinese government, but I proudly open my arms for anyone born within the national borders of modern day China.

Also I'm really fucking drunk lol
 
wait until mrhands checks how many wikipedia pages there on U.S massacres
Over the past 30 years? By the US government against US citizens? Please direct me to the US's equivalent of Tiananmen Square. I'm all for shitting on US foreign / domestic policy but comparing it to China is... come on man.

I'm beyond drunk at this point but I'm 100% sure whatever massacres you're talking about aren't currently censored on the internet nor is there any penalty for talking about them so feel free to list them.
 
None of those are in the last few decades, against US citizens, and even remotely comparable to Tien Sq, Uighur camps etc. I'm not defending US foreign policy by any means, but drone striking the Taliban is far from comparable to tanks grinding up and shooting people in the streets in opposition to the government. Im still waiting for anything the US did to its own people comparable to what China regularly does.

Again, I opposed the Iraq war and all the shit the US does overseas but how anyone can try to equate the US to China is beyond me.
 
yeah i can see you didn't read the wikipedia articles at all, which is not surprising
I did, you just Googled "US massacre" and posted every Wiki result. Virtually all of the ones on US territory were 100+ years ago and have been long since accepted as very bad and are not denied by the US government. Many of them are taught to us as required curriculum in public schools!

Cops killing citizens is a bad point as this is criticized by pretty much everyone. Also cops aren't controlled by the federal government (mostly). Similarly a hillbilly that shoots up a school has nothing to do with the will of the US govt. Both acts of violence are criticized by the current US leadership.

Massacres in other nations are generally just civilian casualties of war and are not the target. A drone strike accidentally killing innocents is a lot different from you and your family disappearing because you photoshopped your country's leader onto a Disney bear. Again I'm in no way defending US foreign policy but you're comparing domestic and foreign policy as if they're the same thing. Not like China's foreign policy is any better, with them supporting North Korea, threatening Taiwan, ignoring territorial claims of neighbors, manipulating currency, Tibetan genocide, and so on. Probably the only reason they haven't tried much more is the US allying with practically every nation they share a border with.

I could draw a picture of Obama having sex with a horse and generally there would be zero government intervention. I can protest against Democracy and as long as it's peaceful the government won't bother me. I can rant about the glorious return of robot Hitler right in front of the White house gates and as long as I'm respectful of others around me Uncle Sam is cool with it.

Idk man, the US has a history of fuckery just like any other global power. But at least we can talk about it.

Edit: come get me Biden.

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