NOC Animal Mafia [Day 7] DL: 22 Feb, 3:30PM PST

I'd need to actually reread the thread which is not happening tonight (should happen tomorrow) but I feel sort of comfortable with this being the world we're living in, minus a deep scum here or there?
 
What do you think about Hitmonleet/Aubisio for last scum?

With Aubisio being the ascetic to counter town investigatives and Hitmonleet being the goon
Tbh havent looked at interactions yet but from a setup building standpoint it make sense in my head. Aubisio's role is one that should be nothing more than a named townie in the hands of town (why would you make a neg optional to activate esp with multiple investigatives) and having a scum vanilla goon is i direct counter to nerf an otherwise powerful rolecop in apricity.
 
OK cool, would love other people's thoughts on possible Hitmonleet/Aubisio scum

I'll take a look at the interactions tomorrow and see what I can find

--

The thing with Hitmonleet that's getting to me is that he's scumreading me but he's not actually interested in figuring out my alignment. He says that there's something off/different with me this game but doesn't provide reasoning as to why that correlates to a mafia mindset. Plus, I'd expect someone who was actually scumreading me to ask me questions in an attempt to sort out my alignment and he has not done that.

Plus, he OMGUS votes me then after I unvote he takes off his vote on me. That.. doesn't feel genuine at all tbh. Like, why would you vote me, then unvote me, then put me as a null-scum lean. Not a real thought process I think?

With Aubisio I feel like he took the bait WRT the Jalmont stuff and is scrambling to find any mislynch he can while his team is being butchered
 
Not voting yet because I don't want premature hammers before I have the chance to fully process the gamestate but I'm feeling pretty solid about those two being the last scum barring shenanigans
 
vanilla cop/neighborizer can be VERY strong in the right hands

especially neighborizer - one of my scumbuddies was a mafia neighborizer in a game I played last year and pocketed nearly the entire town using the ability.

vanilla cop.. basically tells you who to kill on subsequent nights I think
 
just saying tho, if aubisio is scum, then the scum team is what, a cop a neighborizer and an ascetic? bit weak with no roleblockers, which would clear leet
Fair; especially with multiple powerful investigatives on town's end in this scenario. Town wouldve had watcher, rolecop, and a BG for scum to have to contend with. Hmm ~_~
 
I'll do some PR analysis later tomorrow but keep in mind that I am an outsider to Smogon balancing rules and stuff

I've designed setups of my own and have my own personal philosophy regarding balancing setups but I daresay that the way setups are designed + balanced here differ from my standards.
 

Jalmont

Mafia Champion
Ehhh.

Jalmont: Can you please explain what you were trying to accomplish, if anything, by using your role in this manner, if you are indeed the messenger?

From reading things it feels like you're using it in a really anti-town manner and I'm just wondering what you were actually trying to /do/ if that makes sense?
Idk I wanted to do something interesting with the messenger. There's literally no use and I didn't really see the harm in using it as a fake persuade (mainly because I wasn't convinced people would fall for it). Arguably you could say I could see how people reacted to determine alignment but I didn't really do that so
 

Jalmont

Mafia Champion
But now I'm kind of unsure, because I can think of lots of ways a messenger type role can be used (sending last will thoughts, coordinating PR actions, etc) and Jalmont if he is what he described is using it in one of the more self destructive ways the role CAN be used, so.

I'm just very confused as to what his motivations are.

What do you gain from.. sending out messages to players saying that there is a persuade type role, but then denying that it exists in the main thread AND scumreading players for it? It's just a very very bizarre line of play to take IMO, and that's why I want Jalmont in here to explain things and explain his mindset.
i mean that's very fair. i think i already explained my motivations but i will say that you're wrong about the scumreading players for it part. i didn't actually scum read anyone talking about the persuade (although yea in general setup spec is scummy for me). but that part had no effect on how i've been reading people itg
 
Hitmonleet: Sure, I'm playing differently than a game that I can honestly list as one of my top performances as town of all time, and a game where I was 100% engaged and active in from the beginning. How does that make me mafia?

I do agree that I am less engaged and less active in this game than the previous one. But since I've replaced in, we've lynched two mafia thus far, simply by going through the PoE and lynching the people who are the most behaviorally suspect. I think we're doing well and I don't see any reason for us to change at the moment until we start mislynching.

Why are you null/scumreading me when

1) You're not even attempting to ask me questions in order to determine my alignment, just listing off statements of how I'm different in this game than the previous one

2) I replaced in, stated that Xnadroj and Knights were my two top scumreads, and they both flipped mafia. Am I town who is accurately reading them as mafia, or scum who just decided to throw the vanilla cop and neighborizer on the bus?

Genuinely curious here.
1. You do have a good point there. However (and this is going to sound like a copout, I know), I've found that directly asking questions tends to be a terrible idea on smogon. I've been lynched at least 3 times because I asked too many questions, and normally, flat out asking a question, as opposed to insinuating them and getting a response to statements, makes it extremely easy for mafia to bluff and make themselves look good. As such, I was providing my suspicions as statements, as opposed to flat out questions. It saddens me that you think I'm scum, but at least I think you're probably town, based on your reactions to my statements, although your sudden self-aggrandizing is... off-putting, to say the least.

2. As I've said before, JOAT mafia pretty much happened in the same way: Town got too comfortable with a situation that normally seemed absurd. I'm simply saying we should still suspect others until they're proven to be town. I've lost way too many games because of one well-placed mole, so being at least a bit paranoid of everyone is kind of my MO at this point.
 
1. You do have a good point there. However (and this is going to sound like a copout, I know), I've found that directly asking questions tends to be a terrible idea on smogon. I've been lynched at least 3 times because I asked too many questions, and normally, flat out asking a question, as opposed to insinuating them and getting a response to statements, makes it extremely easy for mafia to bluff and make themselves look good. As such, I was providing my suspicions as statements, as opposed to flat out questions. It saddens me that you think I'm scum, but at least I think you're probably town, based on your reactions to my statements, although your sudden self-aggrandizing is... off-putting, to say the least.

2. As I've said before, JOAT mafia pretty much happened in the same way: Town got too comfortable with a situation that normally seemed absurd. I'm simply saying we should still suspect others until they're proven to be town. I've lost way too many games because of one well-placed mole, so being at least a bit paranoid of everyone is kind of my MO at this point.
As long as you don't look like you're just asking questions without giving opinions and taking stances, or like the answers to your questions don't matter and have no influence on your reasonings, you won't be lynched just for asking questions
 

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