[Anything Goes] Groudon

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Approved by Shiba


383-p.png
groudon-primal.gif
383-p.png


QC: / /
GP: / /
​
[OVERVIEW]

  • Primal Groudon is one of the most threatening and splashable Pokemon in the tier, thanks to its amazing ability to blanket check many common threats combined with its monstrous stats.
  • It also has an amazing Ground / Fire typing which gives Primal Groudon only 2 weaknesses and 5 resistances, letting it check against certain key threats in Klefki, Xerneas, and Steel Arceus.
  • Desolate Land is a excellent ability that grants Primal Groudon an immunity to Water-type attacks which allows it to check a major wallbreaker in Primal Kyogre.
  • Has a vast movepool which allows it to run a variety of sets such as support, offensive setup sweeper, and a bulky wall. It also has both powerful physical and special STAB moves to weaken down walls more efficiently.
  • Primal Groudon does have a low speed stat without any boosts and can be easily pressured by powerful special attackers such as Mewtwo, Mega Gengar, and Darkrai due to it lacking any immediate recovery moves.
  • It also has a glaring weakness to one of the most common offensive types in Ground-type, which can often limit what it can wall due to Earthquake being so prevalent.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades / Earthquake
move 3: Lava Plume / Stone Edge
move 4: Roar / Thunder Wave / Dragon Tail
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock enables Primal Groudon to support the team immensely, due to its ability to force switches so easily.
  • Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that allows Primal Groudon to 2HKO the majority of the metagame. Earthquake could be used as a more reliable alternative, although the slight decrease in power can be noticeable at times.
  • Lava Plume is another great STAB move that has a 30% chance to burn and has great power under Desolate Land, letting Primal Groudon weaken down walls and physical attackers more easily. Stone Edge could be used to hit certain threats such as Ho-Oh and Lugia, although Primal Groudon does not like to stay in against them most of the time.
  • Roar is used to phaze out setup sweepers such as Xerneas, Mega Rayquaza and, Arceus and is useful to rack up hazard damage. Thunder Wave could be used instead to cripple faster threats, which could help Primal Groudon deal with fearsome wallbreakers. Finally Dragon Tail can be used to phaze out Dragon-types who are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Latios, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O.

Set Details
========
  • These EVs are set in place to ensure that Primal Groudon can live a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks and Spikes. It can also avoid the 2HKO from Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, Arceus-Rock's Judgement, and Giratina-O's Shadow Force.
  • The Careful nature with extra EVs in Defense could also be used to let Primal Groudon face threats such as Xerneas and Primal Kyogre more proficiently, but lessens its ability to wall physical attackers.
  • A more offensive spread with an Adamant nature and an EV spread of 224 HP / 240 Atk / 32 SpD / 12 Spe can be used to let Primal Groudon become a more formal offensive threat. These EVs are set in place to allow Primal Groudon to OHKO Primal Kyogre with a Precipice Blades after Stealth Rocks, while still being able to live a boosted Focus Blast from Xerneas after Stealth Rocks.

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set could be used as a blanket check to many dangerous threats in the metagame, and can also support your team by setting up Stealth Rocks and crippling foes with Thunder Wave.
  • Do not try to rely on Primal Groudon to cover all these options as it can be heavily pressured and easily overwhelmed by certain Pokemon due to Primal Groudon not possessing immediate recovery, while being susceptible to all forms of hazards.
  • Lava Plume is a spammable move that could be used repeatedly due to its incredible chance of burning foes.
  • Also be weary of using Ground-type attacks if your opponent carries a Flying-type Pokemon or a Levitate user, due to them being perceived as immediate answers to Primal Groudon.

Team Options
========
  • Primal Groudon does not appreciate Dragon-types that are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina-O, with the ladder being able to remove hazards with Defog. Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Mega Diancie and Fairy Arceus could be used to compensate this weakness, while Primal Groudon can check Steel-types that could be troubling for them as well.
  • Flying-types such as Lugia and Yveltal can also be problematic to face as well. Klefki is a nice answer to both of them, as it can either setup Spikes or hax them to death with Swagger and Foul Play.
  • Ground Arceus is also a huge pain to Primal Groudon, as it can survive any attack it tries to throw at it. Pokemon such as Yveltal, Latios, Lugia, and Mega Rayquaza are all options that can help deal with Ground Arceus effectively.
  • Wish support can also be useful which can help recover Primal Groudon's HP passively so it can outlast certain checks more proficiently.

[SET]
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Punch
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Rock Polish helps Primal Groudon outspeed most of the metagame after one boost, which transforms it into a deadly sweeper through the end of the match.
  • Precipice Blades is the chosen STAB Ground-type move of choice, as the extra boost in power can help Primal Groudon deal more damage compared to Earthquake, albeit being less reliable.
  • Dragon Claw could be used to 2HKO Dragon-types that try to wall Primal Groudon such as Giratina-O and Mega Rayquaza. Swords Dance is an alternative that allows Primal Groudon to boost its Attack by two stages, which can help it deal with more defensive threats like Lugia and Water Arceus more easily.
  • Stone Edge is a coverage option to hit Flying-types like Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and is optimal to use in conjunction with Swords Dance. Fire Punch is a secondary STAB option that allows Primal Groudon to hit Steel-types such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and is boosted by the sun from Desolate Land.

Set Details
========
  • The Speed EVs ensure that Primal Groudon outspeeds Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon after a Rock Polish boost, while the extra EVs in Special Defense and HP are used to let it survive a Focus Blast from a boosted Xerneas.
  • A bulkier spread of 248 HP / 152 Atk / 52 SpD / 56 Spe can be used in conjunction with Swords Dance to allow Primal Groudon more opportunities to setup.
  • More Speed EVs could be run to outspeed Choice Scarf users like Kyreum-W and Genesect.

Usage Tips
========
  • Primal Groudon can force out many Pokemon, it has many opportunities to setup a Rock Polish throughout the match.
  • Since this is a more offensive set, try not to let Primal Groudon check too many pokemon, as it could be left too weak to sweep through the end of the match.
  • Make sure Primal Groudon's check such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh are weakened down before attempting to sweep.

Team Options
========
  • This set couples well with offensive Pokemon that weaken Primal Groudon's checks such as Lugia, defensive Primal Kyogre, and Ground Arceus.
  • Darkrai is an amazing option, as it can outspeed and put to sleep all of Primal Groudon's checks, which can help it setup later on during the match.
  • Powerful wallbreakers such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh can weaken down walls like Lugia, helping Primal Groudon dismantle the opposing team freely.
  • Stealth Rock support is important to chip Flying-type Pokemon and Focus Sash abusers such as Darkrai and Smeargle. Good setters include Dialga and all the Deoxys formes as the former can reliable check Mega Rayquaza and the ladder can easily fit on more offensive teams.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance + Thunder Wave
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to dangerous levels, letting it able to break through many bulky walls in the meta.
  • Thunder Wave is a great utility move that can paralyzes foes on the switchin, which allows Primal Groudon to setup more easily on some of its most common checks in Water Arceus, Lugia, and Latios.
  • Precipice Blades acts as its main Ground-type STAB move, as it grants Primal Groudon the opportunity to OHKO many neutral targets after one boost.
  • Rock Slide is a great coverage move that lets Primal Groudon to hit Ground-type immune Pokemon such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Giratina-O. Stone Edge is a more powerful alternative, although the decrease in accuracy can be unfavorable at times.
  • Fire Punch can be used as a secondary STAB move, but the lack of coverage it has with Precipice Blades is quite noticeable and often avoided.

Set Details
========
  • The HP and Special Defense EVs allows Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks damage. 12 EVs were added in Speed as it allows it to outspeed maximum Speed Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs were added into Attavk with the Adamant nature to maximize its power output.
  • The Jolly nature can be used instead as it allows Primal Groudon to outspeed base 70 Speed Pokemon.

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set should be used more early on within the game, as it should try to status its checks and counters before it starts setting up.
  • Try to setup on Fairy- and Steel-types as they cannot hurt Primal Groudon too much with their STAB attacks, in which it can take this opportunity to status the likely switchin such as Lugia, Giratina-O, or Mega Rayquaza.
  • Do not spam Thunder Wave too often if your oppoenent has a Ground-type such as Ground Arceus or a Primal Groudon of their own, as the lack of momentum can be detrimental later on.
Team Options
========
  • Stealth Rock setters such as Dialga, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Ferrothorn are good teammates to have, as the hazards can weaken opposing Pokemon which grants Primal Groudon the certain OHKO on certain mons such as Water Arceus and Lugia after a Swords Dance boost.
  • Other setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Mega Rayquaza, and Extreme Killer Arceus all contain the potential to sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their appropriate checks.
  • Primal Groudon also gets checked by a multitude of Pokemon such as Latios, Ho-Oh, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O if it decides to run Fire Punch. Partners such as Mega Diancie, Rock Arceus, and Klefki are all options to deal with the aforementioned Pokemon in this case.
  • Primal Groudon can also be weaken quite a bit, thus Healing Wish supporters such as Latias and Shaymin-S can heal it to max health, in order to give it the chance to sweep again.
[SET]
name: Lum Berry
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail
item: Lum Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Earthquake is Groudon's main STAB move that allows it to hit to dent most neutral targets even without the Attack investment.
  • Stealth Rock is an invaluable move that grants Groudon the ability to net residual damage on opposing incoming Pokemon.
  • Thunder Wave lets Groudon to cripple fast wallbreakers that tend to come in on it such as Latios, Darkrai, and Ho-Oh.
  • Roar allows Groudon to phaze out setup sweepers can hurt the enemy team in conjunction with the residual damage from Stealth Rock. Dragon Tail is another phazign option that does not get blocked by Taunt, however does not force out a Pokemon behind a Substitute.
Set Details
========
  • The Evs are implemented in HP and Defense to turn Groudon into a bulky tank that can survive powerful physical attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza and Mega Mewtwo-X. While 12 EVs are added in the Speed stat to allow Groudon to outspeed Mega Diancie before it mega evolves.
  • Lum Berry was given as an item to allow Groudon to check status spreaders such as Klefki, Darkrai, and Ho-Oh for one turn.
Usage Tips
========
  • This Groudon set is mostly used to check Swagger Klefki and be able to OHKo it in return. However, you can also sleep inducers such as Darkrai, and be able to suprise them with an attack.
  • Do not try an switch in Groudon on powerful special attackers, as its lack in special bulk can leave it being 2HKOed or even OHKOed at times.
  • Be weary of Flying-types such as Mega Rayquaza and Lugia, as they can often abuse Groudon's lack of options to hit them besides it phazing them out.
Team Options
========
  • Regular Groudon has a hard time dealing with Water-types without the ability Desolate Land that its Primal counterpart contains. This means Pokemon like Kyogre become much more threatening and appropriate checks such as Latios and Mega Rayquaza may be necessary.
  • Wallbreakers that can abuse the sun from Drought and the hazard support from Stealth Rock such as Mega Blaziken and Ho-Oh also may be beneficial partners to Groudon, as they tend to sweep much more easier.
  • Special Walls such as Clefable may also be useful to cover Groudon's low Special Defense and can provide Wish support as well to preserve Groudon's health.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Rest is a viable move on bulky Primal Groudon sets, as it is its only tool for recovery. However, the drawback of wasting two turns asleep can be crucial as your opponent is given the opportunity to setup or weaken Primal Groudon again.
  • Overheat can also be used as a Special STAB option to reliably OHKO physical walls such as Skarmory, although it lowers Primal Groudon's Special Attack by two stages after one use, which may force it to switchout as a result.
  • Rock Tomb can be used as a niche coverage move that can lower the Speed of incoming wallbreakers such as Latios and offensive Arceus formes on the switchin, but the low BP of the move leaves much to be desired.


Checks and Counters
===================

**Lugia**: Lugia can live most of Primal Groudon's non-boosted attack due to its massive bulk and can proceed to Toxic stall it to death thanks to Multiscale and Roost. Although, Lugia takes large amounts of damage from Stone Edge if Multiscale is not active.

**Ground-immune Dragon-types**: Pokemon such as Mega Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Latios all resist both of Primal Groudon's STAB options and can break through it with their powerful attacks. However, Primal Groudon can run Dragon Claw or Dragon Tail as a coverage move to hit these threats as well.

**Ground Arceus**: Ground Arceus can live any attack from Primal Groudon and can OHKO it with its own STAB Ground-type moves. Recover can help it stall out Primal Groudon, but the burn status from Lava Plume can cripple Ground Arceus, especially the physical sets.

**Water Arceus**: Water Arceus resists Fire-type attacks and can avoid the 2HKO from Precipice Blades. It can then Toxic stall Primal Groudon, however it does get beaten by Swords Dance variants.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can overwrite Desolate Land with Primordial Sea and can threaten to OHKO Primal Groudon with its Water-type moves. However, it does not appreciate switching in on Primal Groudon's STAB Ground-type attacks.

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can check Primal Groudon variants that do not decide to run Rock-type coverage moves, and can 2HKO it with Earthquake. Ho-Oh also benefits from not being weakened by burns from Lava Plume, although Stone Edge is a popular choice on Primal Groudon so switching it in becomes a risk in most cases.
 
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eh calling the sets sweepers seems odd, sets are named "Swords Dance" instead of "Swords Dance Sweeper" and similar. also paradancer pdon is more of a wallbreaker than a sweeper if anything
 
We've decided on this set for regular Groudon.

name: Lum Berry? Idk
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail
item: Lum Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe

EVs are just max bulk with 12 spe to outspeed Dianc pre mega.
Otherwise, I hope everything else is self explanatory.
 
Zangooser said:
We've decided on this set for regular Groudon.

name: Lum Berry? Idk
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe

EVs are just max bulk with 12 spe to outspeed Dianc pre mega.
Otherwise, I hope everything else is self explanatory.
Click to expand...
If it has the red orb, how is it regular Groudon?
 
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call the set Defensive or Physically Defensive imo. lum doesn't describe its niche well enough and it could be running lefties or something anyway
 
AM QC check
Funbot28 said:
Approved by Shiba


383-p.png
groudon-primal.gif
383-p.png


QC: / /
GP: / /
​
[OVERVIEW]

  • Primal Groudon is one of the most threatening and splashable Pokemon in the tier, thanks to its amazing Ground / Fire typing coupled with its monstrous stats.
  • It also has an amazing Ground / Fire typing which gives Primal Groudon only 2 weaknesses and 5 resistances, letting it contend against certain key threats in Klefki, Xerneas, and Genesect.
  • Desolate Land is a perfect ability that grants Primal Groudon an immunity to Water-type attacks.
  • Has a vast movepool which allows it to run a variety of sets such as support, offensive setup sweeper, and a bulky wall. It also has both powerful physical and special STAB moves to weaken down walls more efficiently.
  • Primal Groudon does have a low speed stat without any boosts and can be easily pressured by powerful special attackers due to it lacking any immediate recovery moves.
  • It also has a glaring weakness to one of the most common offensive types in Ground-type, which can often limit what it can wall due to Earthquake being so prevalent.
Click to expand...
I dislike the use of the word perfect here. It is mostly just preference, but that's innacurace and probably should be swapped out for excellent or amazing.
Something about lum or at least non-primal sets would be nice- you have it included in the analysis but I wouldn't know it from the overview.
Contend against is misleading here, as it in fact solidly takes them on. Saying check is more descriptive and useful.
[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades / Earthquake
move 3: Lava Plume / Stone Edge
move 4: Roar / Thunder Wave / Dragon Tail
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock enables Primal Groudon to support the team immensely, due to its ability to force switches so easily.
  • Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that allows Primal Groudon to 2HKO the majority of the metagame. Earthquake could be used as a more reliable alternative, although the slight decrease in power can be noticeable at times.
  • Lava Plume is another great STAB move that has a 30% chance to burn and has great power under Desolate Land, letting Primal Groudon weaken down walls and physical attackers more easily. Stone Edge could be used to hit certain threats such as Ho-Oh and Lugia, although Primal Groudon does not like to stay in against them most of the time.
  • Roar is used to phaze out setup sweepers such as Xerneas, Mega Rayquaza and, Arceus and is useful to rack up hazard damage. Thunder Wave could be used instead to cripple faster threats, which could help Primal Groudon deal with fearsome wallbreakers. Finally Dragon Tail can be used to phaze out Dragon-types who are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Latios, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O.
Click to expand...
Say something about the tradeoff in power between blades and eq, like how PBlades 2hko's Xern.

Set Details
========
  • These EVs are set in place to ensure that Primal Groudon can live a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks and Spikes. It can also avoid the 2HKO from Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, Arceus-Rock's Judgement, and Giratina-O's Shadow Force.
  • The Careful nature with extra EVs in Defense could also be used to let Primal Groudon face threats such as Xerneas and Primal Kyogre more proficiently, but lessens its ability to wall physical attackers.
  • A more offensive spread with an Adamant nature and an EV spread of 224 HP / 240 Atk / 32 SpD / 12 Spe can be used to let Primal Groudon become a more formal offensive threat. These EVs are set in place to allow Primal Groudon to OHKO Primal Kyogre with a Precipice Blades after Stealth Rocks, while still being able to live a boosted Focus Blast from Xerneas after Stealth Rocks.
Click to expand...
2 layers of spikes- this leads them to assume its either 1 or 3, niether of which is accurate.
Mention that impish should be run if you arent using lava plume

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set could be used as a blanket check to many dangerous threats in the metagame, and can also support your team by setting up Stealth Rocks and crippling foes with Thunder Wave.
  • Do not try to rely on Primal Groudon to cover all these options as it can be heavily pressured and easily overwhelmed by certain Pokemon due to Primal Groudon not possessing immediate recovery, while being susceptible to all forms of hazards.
  • Lava Plume is a spammable move that could be used repeatedly due to its incredible chance of burning foes.
  • Also be weary of using Ground-type attacks if your opponent carries a Flying-type Pokemon or a Levitate user, due to them being perceived as immediate answers to Primal Groudon.
Click to expand...
Something about lava plume being its most spammable move to punish switches witha burn chance.
Mention keeping it healthy to take on xerneas if they have one
More GP than QC, but all the coulds are more distracting than helpful
Team Options
========
  • Primal Groudon does not appreciate Dragon-types that are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina-O, with the ladder being able to remove hazards with Defog. Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Mega Diancie and Fairy Arceus could be used to compensate this weakness, while Primal Groudon can check Steel-types that could be troubling for them as well.
  • Flying-types such as Lugia and Yveltal can also be problematic to face as well. Klefki is a nice answer to both of them, as it can either setup Spikes or hax them to death with Swagger and Foul Play.
  • Ground Arceus is also a huge pain to Primal Groudon, as it can survive any attack it tries to throw at it. Pokemon such as Yveltal, Latios, Lugia, and Mega Rayquaza are all options that can help deal with Ground Arceus effectively.
  • Wish support can also be useful which can help recover Primal Groudon's HP passively so it can outlast certain checks more proficiently.
Click to expand...
Something about hazard removal would be useful here.
Incluse something to take on MRay as it easily defeats Primal Groudons that lack dragon tail
[SET]
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Punch
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Rock Polish helps Primal Groudon outspeed most of the metagame after one boost, which transforms it into a deadly sweeper through the end of the match.
  • Precipice Blades is the chosen STAB Ground-type move of choice, as the extra boost in power can help Primal Groudon deal more damage compared to Earthquake, albeit being less reliable.
  • Dragon Claw could be used to 2HKO Dragon-types that try to wall Primal Groudon such as Giratina-O and Mega Rayquaza. Swords Dance is an alternative that allows Primal Groudon to boost its Attack by two stages, which can help it deal with more defensive threats like Lugia and Water Arceus more easily.
  • Stone Edge is a coverage option to hit Flying-types like Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and is optimal to use in conjunction with Swords Dance. Fire Punch is a secondary STAB option that allows Primal Groudon to hit Steel-types such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and is boosted by the sun from Desolate Land.
Set Details
========
  • The Speed EVs ensure that Primal Groudon outspeeds Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon after a Rock Polish boost, while the extra EVs in Special Defense and HP are used to let it survive a Focus Blast from a boosted Xerneas.
  • A bulkier spread of 248 HP / 152 Atk / 52 SpD / 56 Spe can be used in conjunction with Swords Dance to allow Primal Groudon more opportunities to setup.
  • More Speed EVs could be run to outspeed Choice Scarf users like Kyreum-W and Genesect.

Usage Tips
========
  • Primal Groudon can force out many Pokemon, it has many opportunities to setup a Rock Polish throughout the match.
  • Since this is a more offensive set, try not to let Primal Groudon check too many pokemon, as it could be left too weak to sweep through the end of the match.
  • Make sure Primal Groudon's check such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh are weakened down before attempting to sweep.


Team Options
========
  • This set couples well with offensive Pokemon that weaken Primal Groudon's checks such as Lugia, defensive Primal Kyogre, and Ground Arceus.
  • Darkrai is an amazing option, as it can outspeed and put to sleep all of Primal Groudon's checks, which can help it setup later on during the match.
  • Powerful wallbreakers such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh can weaken down walls like Lugia, helping Primal Groudon dismantle the opposing team freely.
  • Stealth Rock support is important to chip Flying-type Pokemon and Focus Sash abusers such as Darkrai and Smeargle. Good setters include Dialga and all the Deoxys formes as the former can reliable check Mega Rayquaza and the ladder can easily fit on more offensive teams.
Click to expand...
Explain about using swords dance vs stall, rock polish vs offense. It's fairly obvious, but important to note.

Only Deoxys-S and A are really usable; A usually isn't a hazard lead. Probably include other setters as well like supportceus and other PDon.
Definitely mention cleaners like Ekiller who appreciate PDon's wallbreaking
Mention that if you lack dragon claw something to take on MRay is absolutely required.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance + Thunder Wave
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to dangerous levels, letting it able to break through many bulky walls in the meta.
  • Thunder Wave is a great utility move that can paralyzes foes on the switchin, which allows Primal Groudon to setup more easily on some of its most common checks in Water Arceus, Lugia, and Latios.
  • Precipice Blades acts as its main Ground-type STAB move, as it grants Primal Groudon the opportunity to OHKO many neutral targets after one boost.
  • Rock Slide is a great coverage move that lets Primal Groudon to hit Ground-type immune Pokemon such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Giratina-O. Stone Edge is a more powerful alternative, although the decrease in accuracy can be unfavorable at times.
  • Fire Punch can be used as a secondary STAB move, but the lack of coverage it has with Precipice Blades is quite noticeable and often avoided.
Click to expand...
Write how Thunder Wave negates the foes' speed stat and lets PDon/Teammates sweep
Mention how rock slide+twave lets you decrease the chance of your opponent getting to move
Talk about what Stone Edge does over rock slide- Defat Lugia after SR, beat Yveltal far more reliably, and an increased crit chance

Set Details
========
  • The HP and Special Defense EVs allows Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks damage. 12 EVs were added in Speed as it allows it to outspeed maximum Speed Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs were added into Attavk with the Adamant nature to maximize its power output.
  • The Jolly nature can be used instead as it allows Primal Groudon to outspeed base 70 Speed Pokemon.
Click to expand...
Remove Jolly- there are exactly 0 relevant base 70's bar skarmory, who never invests in speed
If you have any alternate spreads, mention them since this is pretty sparce. i haven't experimented beyond the standard here, but there are probably a few other options- off the top of my head, adding a bit of defense to live two dragon ascents.

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set should be used more early on within the game, as it should try to status its checks and counters before it starts setting up.
  • Try to setup on Fairy- and Steel-types as they cannot hurt Primal Groudon too much with their STAB attacks, in which it can take this opportunity to status the likely switchin such as Lugia, Giratina-O, or Mega Rayquaza.
  • Do not spam Thunder Wave too often if your oppoenent has a Ground-type such as Ground Arceus or a Primal Groudon of their own, as the lack of momentum can be detrimental later on.
Click to expand...
Include supportceus that think they wall you on things to set up on.
Mention how you should ue it early game to break holes in cores rather than going for a sweep

Team Options
========
  • Stealth Rock setters such as Dialga, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Ferrothorn are good teammates to have, as the hazards can weaken opposing Pokemon which grants Primal Groudon the certain OHKO on certain mons such as Water Arceus and Lugia after a Swords Dance boost.
  • Other setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Mega Rayquaza, and Extreme Killer Arceus all contain the potential to sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their appropriate checks.
  • Primal Groudon also gets checked by a multitude of Pokemon such as Latios, Ho-Oh, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O if it decides to run Fire Punch. Partners such as Mega Diancie, Rock Arceus, and Klefki are all options to deal with the aforementioned Pokemon in this case.
  • Primal Groudon can also be weaken quite a bit, thus Healing Wish supporters such as Latias and Shaymin-S can heal it to max health, in order to give it the chance to sweep again.
Click to expand...
Klefki is a good teammate for other reasons as well such as spikes support hurting switches, more thunder waves being nice, and swagger generating free turn in exchange for pressuring bulky walls, defoggers, and magic bouncers.
Mention Jirachi over Latias as healing wish mons- it's more relevant.
Fairy types are worthy of a team slot of their own as they take on yveltal, dragons, and in the case of xern/diancie Darkrai.

  • Regular Groudon has a hard time dealing with Water-types without the ability Desolate Land that its Primal counterpart contains. This means Pokemon like Kyogre become much more threatening and appropriate checks such as Latios and Mega Rayquaza may be necessary.
  • Wallbreakers that can abuse the sun from Drought and the hazard support from Stealth Rock such as Mega Blaziken and Ho-Oh also may be beneficial partners to Groudon, as they tend to sweep much more easier.
  • Special Walls such as Clefable may also be useful to cover Groudon's low Special Defense and can provide Wish support as well to preserve Groudon's health.
Click to expand...
I can't comment on the rest, but remove mega blaziken. It isn't even remotely viable. If sun support is worth mentioning, leave it at Ho-Oh.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Rest is a viable move on bulky Primal Groudon sets, as it is its only tool for recovery. However, the drawback of wasting two turns asleep can be crucial as your opponent is given the opportunity to setup or weaken Primal Groudon again.
  • Overheat can also be used as a Special STAB option to reliably OHKO physical walls such as Skarmory, although it lowers Primal Groudon's Special Attack by two stages after one use, which may force it to switchout as a result.
  • Rock Tomb can be used as a niche coverage move that can lower the Speed of incoming wallbreakers such as Latios and offensive Arceus formes on the switchin, but the low BP of the move leaves much to be desired.
Click to expand...
Fire Blast absolutely deserves mention here, as it nukes switchins and is generally better than overheat. It isn't main set worthy, but its better than any of the other OO's
Checks and Counters
===================

**Lugia**: Lugia can live most of Primal Groudon's non-boosted attack due to its massive bulk and can proceed to Toxic stall it to death thanks to Multiscale and Roost. Although, Lugia takes large amounts of damage from Stone Edge if Multiscale is not active.

**Ground-immune Dragon-types**: Pokemon such as Mega Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Latios all resist both of Primal Groudon's STAB options and can break through it with their powerful attacks. However, Primal Groudon can run Dragon Claw or Dragon Tail as a coverage move to hit these threats as well.

**Ground Arceus**: Ground Arceus can live any attack from Primal Groudon and can OHKO it with its own STAB Ground-type moves. Recover can help it stall out Primal Groudon, but the burn status from Lava Plume can cripple Ground Arceus, especially the physical sets.

**Water Arceus**: Water Arceus resists Fire-type attacks and can avoid the 2HKO from Precipice Blades. It can then Toxic stall Primal Groudon, however it does get beaten by Swords Dance variants.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can overwrite Desolate Land with Primordial Sea and can threaten to OHKO Primal Groudon with its Water-type moves. However, it does not appreciate switching in on Primal Groudon's STAB Ground-type attacks.

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can check Primal Groudon variants that do not decide to run Rock-type coverage moves, and can 2HKO it with Earthquake. Ho-Oh also benefits from not being weakened by burns from Lava Plume, although Stone Edge is a popular choice on Primal Groudon so switching it in becomes a risk in most cases.
Click to expand...

Add Mega Rayquaza (waterfall, surf, setting up), Dragon arceus (possibly put in the same spot as water), quagsire, and yveltal.


General Notes: Stop mentioning Lati@s, and start mentioning supportceus.
 
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Lots and lots of stuff to get to, so I'll reply to this in bold and then look at tesseract's AM QC separately. General note- the content is atrociously low, aside from any issues it's missing so many descriptions and details. I know it's 4 sets but if you don't have the time to do it then don't take the analysis.
Funbot28 said:
[OVERVIEW]

  • Primal Groudon is one of the most threatening and splashable Pokemon in the tier, thanks to its amazing ability to blanket check many common threats combined with its monstrous stats.
  • It also has an amazing Ground / Fire typing which gives Primal Groudon only 2 weaknesses and 5 resistances, letting it contend against certain key threats in Klefki, Xerneas, and Genesect. not genesect please, something not weak and sucky
  • Desolate Land is a perfect ability that grants Primal Groudon an immunity to Water-type attacks. ..which allows it to check the threatening pogre
  • Has a vast movepool which allows it to run a variety of sets such as support, offensive setup sweeper, and a bulky wall. It also has both powerful physical and special STAB moves to weaken down walls more efficiently.
  • Primal Groudon does have a low speed stat without any boosts and can be easily pressured by powerful special attackers due to it lacking any immediate recovery moves.
  • It also has a glaring weakness to one of the most common offensive types in Ground-type, which can often limit what it can wall due to Earthquake being so prevalent.
  • This overview is missing a lot of specific examples (pressured by powerful special attackers like who? users of eq like who?), susceptibility to being worn down by status and walled bulky arceus formes, any sort of description of the offensive and support sets like the fact that they're still hard to switch into, any mention of how ray checking it is pretty annoying, how swords dance is stupidly strong... probably other stuff I cant think of at 6am but you get the point. It almost feels like this is the overview with 1/2 of the points removed.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Precipice Blades / Earthquake
move 3: Lava Plume / Stone Edge
move 4: Roar / Thunder Wave / Dragon Tail
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Stealth Rock enables Primal Groudon to support the team immensely, due to its ability to force switches so easily.
  • Precipice Blades is a powerful STAB move that allows Primal Groudon to 2HKO the majority of the metagame. Earthquake could be used as a more reliable alternative, although the slight decrease in power can be noticeable at times.
  • Lava Plume is another great STAB move that has a 30% chance to burn and has great power under Desolate Land, letting Primal Groudon weaken down walls and physical attackers more easily. Stone Edge could be used to hit certain threats such as Ho-Oh and Lugia, although Primal Groudon does not like to stay in against them most of the time. it does nothing vs lugia which can roost up and is faster anyway, you'd rather burn it. this only hits hooh
  • Roar is used to phaze out setup sweepers such as Xerneas, Mega Rayquaza and, Arceus and is useful to rack up hazard damage. Thunder Wave could be used instead to cripple faster threats, which could help Primal Groudon deal with fearsome wallbreakers. Finally Dragon Tail can be used to phaze out Dragon-types who are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Latios, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O. dragon tail isn't about hitting eq immunities, it's about specifically doing damage to ray while phazing (over half at -1 from ascent iirc). no need to throw in mentions of latios, but please mention that ur weaker to geoxern w/out twave or roar

Set Details
========
  • These spdef EVs are set in place to ensure that Primal Groudon can live a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks and Spikes. It can also avoid the 2HKO from Primal Kyogre's Ice Beam, Arceus-Rock's Judgement, and Giratina-O's Shadow Force.
  • The Careful nature with extra EVs in Defense could also be used to let Primal Groudon face threats such as Xerneas and Primal Kyogre more proficiently, but lessens its ability to wall physical attackers. I'm really confused here. it's relaxed. not careful. but you do need to mention what the phys def EVs/nature help you with, which you don't
  • A more offensive spread with an Adamant nature and an EV spread of 224 HP / 240 Atk / 32 SpD / 12 Spe can be used to let Primal Groudon become a more formal offensive threat. These EVs are set in place to allow Primal Groudon to OHKO Primal Kyogre with a Precipice Blades after Stealth Rocks, while still being able to live a boosted Focus Blast from Xerneas after Stealth Rocks. I think this is from the ubers analysis? I'd rather this be put in OO, just because it feels like what I'd run on a fully offensive set or even rocks+SD which I've used. idk why it goes in sd of a defensive variant

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set could be used as a blanket check to many dangerous threats in the metagame like who?, and can also support your team by setting up Stealth Rocks and crippling foes with Thunder Wave. it's not really a usage tip with the phrasing, if you tell people that setting rocks and paralyzing things is the priority of the set then that's different
  • Do not try to rely on Primal Groudon to cover all these options what options as it can be heavily pressured and easily overwhelmed by certain Pokemon due to Primal Groudon not possessing immediate recovery, while being susceptible to all forms of hazards. not really sure what this means
  • Lava Plume is a spammable move that could be used repeatedly due to its incredible chance of burning foes.
  • Also be weary of using Ground-type attacks if your opponent carries a Flying-type Pokemon or a Levitate user, due to them being perceived as immediate answers to Primal Groudon. perceived is really the wrong way to say this, either they can switch into don or they cant
  • this is missing the obligatory thing about using phazing moves, how to play around to check pogre so you don't let it switch in and get a kill, definitely some other stuff but I'd rather not list it all out unless it's still too bare when I look at it again

Team Options
========
  • Primal Groudon does not appreciate Dragon-types that are immune to Ground-type attacks such as Mega Rayquaza and Giratina-O, with the ladder latter being able to remove hazards with Defog. Fairy-types such as Xerneas, Mega Diancie and Fairy Arceus could be used to compensate this weakness, while Primal Groudon can check Steel-types that could be troubling for them as well.
  • Flying-types such as Lugia and Yveltal can also be problematic to face as well. Klefki is a nice answer to both of them, as it can either setup Spikes or hax them to death with Swagger and Foul Play. neither lugia nor yveltal /really/ want to switch into lava plume and get burned, but kelfk+don supporting with spikes+rocks is interesting
  • Ground Arceus is also a huge pain to Primal Groudon, as it can survive any attack it tries to throw at it it's not as much as a defensive switchin as a great offensive check?. Pokemon such as Yveltal, Latios, Lugia, and Mega Rayquaza are all options that can help deal with Ground Arceus effectively. latios is irrelevant and not a good check to this at all, loses to CM and dies to +2 sedge after rocks
  • Wish support can also be useful which can help recover Primal Groudon's HP passively so it can outlast certain checks more proficiently. from teammates like...? also mention clerics for removing toxic
  • Wouldn't mind seeing more here either, hooh checks, hazard removers since it's worn down by spikes and tspikes, maybe mons that can beat support arc formes, offensive things that benefit from SR support, etc

[SET]
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Precipice Blades
move 3: Dragon Claw / Swords Dance
move 4: Stone Edge / Fire Punch
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 104 HP / 252 Atk / 96 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Rock Polish helps Primal Groudon outspeed most of the metagame after one boost, which transforms it into a deadly sweeper through the end of the match.
  • Precipice Blades is the chosen STAB Ground-type move of choice, as the extra boost in power can help Primal Groudon deal more damage compared to Earthquake, albeit being less reliable. also say what it hits
  • Dragon Claw could be used to 2HKO Dragon-types that try to wall Primal Groudon such as Giratina-O and Mega Rayquaza. Swords Dance is an alternative that allows Primal Groudon to boost its Attack by two stages, which can help it deal with more defensive threats like Lugia and Water Arceus more easily.
  • Stone Edge is a coverage option to hit Flying-types like Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and is optimal to use in conjunction with Swords Dance. Fire Punch is a secondary STAB option that allows Primal Groudon to hit Steel-types such as Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and is boosted by the sun from Desolate Land. if mentioning sun, specifically mention it's more reliable than Pblades while being close enough to same power. also why is edge optimal with SD? explain

Set Details
========
  • The Speed EVs ensure that Primal Groudon outspeeds Choice Scarf base 90 Speed Pokemon like who? after a Rock Polish boost, while the extra EVs in Special Defense and HP are used to let it survive a Focus Blast from a boosted Xerneas.
  • A bulkier spread of 248 HP / 152 Atk / 52 SpD / 56 Spe can be used in conjunction with Swords Dance to allow Primal Groudon more opportunities to setup. but the spread is specifically for rock polish. don't mention this here, this fits in the SD set below
  • More Speed EVs could be run to outspeed Choice Scarf users like Kyreum-W and Genesect. specify the set, which should have speed for scarf rachi and mention that over kyurem

Usage Tips
========
  • Primal Groudon can force out many Pokemon like what?, it has many opportunities to setup a Rock Polish throughout the match.
  • Since this is a more offensive set, try not to let Primal Groudon check too many pokemon, as it could be left too weak to sweep through the end of the match. don't really get what this means or why it cant check stuff
  • Make sure Primal Groudon's check such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh are weakened down before attempting to sweep.
  • other things to weaken? how to handle support arc? when to SD? give more stuff

Team Options
========
  • This set couples well with offensive Pokemon that weaken Primal Groudon's checks such as Lugia, defensive Primal Kyogre, and Ground Arceus. you need to give examples of these offensive pokemon
  • Darkrai is an amazing option, as it can outspeed and put to sleep all of Primal Groudon's checks, which can help it setup later on during the match.
  • Powerful wallbreakers such as Mega Rayquaza and Ho-Oh can weaken down walls like Lugia, helping Primal Groudon dismantle the opposing team freely.
  • Stealth Rock support is important to chip Flying-type Pokemon and Focus Sash abusers such as Darkrai and Smeargle. Good setters include Dialga and all the Deoxys formes not all of them, only 2 are viable and one isn't as commonly used as a rocker. there's just easier things to mention as the former can reliable check Mega Rayquaza and the ladder can easily fit on more offensive teams.
  • still p bare, although for once nothing totally obvious springs to mind immediately so there may not be anything else that's huge. I suppose gengar takes away skarmory for rock polish/stone edge/pblades/dragon claw variants

[SET]
name: Swords Dance + Thunder Wave
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Thunder Wave
move 3: Precipice Blades
move 4: Rock Slide / Stone Edge
item: Red Orb
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 48 SpD / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Swords Dance boosts Primal Groudon's Attack to dangerous levels, letting it able to break through many bulky walls in the meta. liiiiiiiiiiike?
  • Thunder Wave is a great utility move that can paralyzes foes on the switchin, which allows Primal Groudon to setup more easily on some of its most common checks in Water Arceus, Lugia, and Latios. using latis a lot is annoying when there are better examples, but also twave doesnt give you free setup since, for example, latios can still draco for a ton of damage. it just makes you faster and cripples them
  • Precipice Blades acts as its main Ground-type STAB move, as it grants Primal Groudon the opportunity to OHKO many neutral targets after one boost.
  • Rock Slide is a great coverage move that lets Primal Groudon to hit Ground-type immune Pokemon such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Giratina-O. Stone Edge is a more powerful alternative, although the decrease in accuracy can be unfavorable at times. rock slide also has paraflinchez
  • Fire Punch can be used as a secondary STAB move, but the lack of coverage it has with Precipice Blades is quite noticeable and often avoided. it still has decent coverage with pblades, it's just more of not smacking around yveltal hooh lugia

Set Details
========
  • The HP and Special Defense EVs allows Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from a +2 Xerneas after Stealth Rocks damage. 12 EVs were added weird tense shift in Speed as it allows it to outspeed maximum Speed Diancie before it Mega Evolves. The remaining EVs were added into Attavk with the Adamant nature to maximize its power output.
  • The Jolly nature can be used instead as it allows Primal Groudon to outspeed base 70 Speed Pokemon. don't mention, not KOing full health supportceus's after SR is huge for example

Usage Tips
========
  • This Primal Groudon set should be used more early on within the game, as it should try to status its checks and counters before it starts setting up like who. also mention wallbreaking early on for strong things later
  • Try to setup on Fairy- and Steel-types as they cannot hurt Primal Groudon too much with their STAB attacks plenty of fairy and steel mons don't allow this to set up though like fairyceus ep does a lot, dialga does a lot, etc. give specific mons like ferrothorn since this is a bit general, in which it can take this opportunity to status the likely switchin such as Lugia, Giratina-O, or Mega Rayquaza. for once you don't need to mention these examples, what they're likely going to switch in isn't something you need to have
  • Do not spam Thunder Wave too often if your oppoenent has a Ground-type such as Ground Arceus or a Primal Groudon of their own, as the lack of momentum can be detrimental later on.
  • again really bare but this set is just autopilot, if you can think of somth else please add though
Team Options
========
  • Stealth Rock setters such as Dialga, Mega Diancie, Deoxys-S, and Ferrothorn are good teammates to have, as the hazards can weaken opposing Pokemon which grants Primal Groudon the certain OHKO on certain mons such as Water Arceus and Lugia after a Swords Dance boost.
  • Other setup sweepers like Geomancy Xerneas, Swords Dance Mega Rayquaza, and Extreme Killer Arceus all contain the potential to sweep after Primal Groudon weakens their appropriate checks.
  • Primal Groudon also gets checked by a multitude of Pokemon such as Latios, Ho-Oh, Mega Rayquaza, and Giratina-O if it decides to run Fire Punch. Partners such as Mega Diancie, Rock Arceus, and Klefki are all options to deal with the aforementioned Pokemon in this case.
  • Primal Groudon can also be weaken quite a bit ??, thus Healing Wish supporters such as Latias and Shaymin-S can heal it to max health, in order to give it the chance to sweep again. iffy on this since both sets are questionable but I guess, just be careful with mentioning HW in general
  • very bare, offensive partners which specifically benefit from supportceus being weakened is cool, mega gengar removes skarmory for non fire punch variants, think of more stuff
[SET]
name: Lum Berry
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Roar / Dragon Tail switch order of these imo, havent talked to other qc and might reverse but it seems like a no-brainer
item: Lum Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 248 Def / 12 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Earthquake is Groudon's main STAB move that allows it to hit to dent most neutral targets even without the Attack investment.
  • Stealth Rock is an invaluable move that grants Groudon the ability to net residual damage on opposing incoming Pokemon.
  • Thunder Wave lets Groudon to cripple fast wallbreakers that tend to come in on it such as Latios, Darkrai, and Ho-Oh. aaaaaa too much latios. remove on the basis that it still has too many mentions after I told u to remove some
  • Roar allows Groudon to phaze out setup sweepers can hurt the enemy team in conjunction with the residual damage from Stealth Rock. Dragon Tail is another phazign option that does not get blocked by Taunt, however does not force out a Pokemon behind a Substitute. dragon tail also has the added benefit of doing damage, particularly to megaray which this checks well. it cant phaze fairies which is kind of important, but can switch into and phaze klefki reliably as long as it doesnt click swagger on the switch. this is all kind of important, particularly specifying keys in some way although not necessarily so descriptive
Set Details
========
  • The Evs are implemented in HP and Defense to turn Groudon into a bulky tank that can survive powerful physical attacks from the likes of Mega Rayquaza and Mega Mewtwo-X. While 12 EVs are added in the Speed stat to allow Groudon to outspeed Mega Diancie before it mega evolves.
  • Lum Berry was given as an item to allow Groudon to check status spreaders such as Klefki, Darkrai, and Ho-Oh for one turn. just as a note you shift to "was given" or something a few times which is the wrong POV and GP will probably change
Usage Tips
========
  • This Groudon set is mostly used to check Swagger Klefki and be able to OHKo it in return. However, you can also sleep inducers such as Darkrai, and be able to suprise them with an attack. grammar is sort of confusing but also you don't really switch into darkrai because it voids twice so ?_? don't really get what you're saying. some mention of surprising darkrai and checking klefki is good though
  • Do not try an switch in Groudon on powerful special attackers, as its lack in special bulk can leave it being 2HKOed or even OHKOed at times.
  • Be weary of Flying-types such as Mega Rayquaza and Lugia, as they can often abuse Groudon's lack of options to hit them besides it phazing them out. ray doesnt take on dragon tail variants well at all
  • again not much content here, telling people to spam twave is important
Team Options
========
  • Regular Groudon has a hard time dealing with Water-types without the ability Desolate Land that its Primal counterpart contains. This means Pokemon like Kyogre become much more threatening and appropriate checks such as Latios and Mega Rayquaza may be necessary. no latios, there's plenty of other options
  • Wallbreakers that can abuse the sun from Drought and the hazard support from Stealth Rock such as Mega Blaziken and Ho-Oh also may be beneficial partners to Groudon, as they tend to sweep much more easier. lol the sun really isn't too useful and mega blaziken is totally unviable and most hooh switchins resist and can handle without the sun iirc (havent calc'd though). unless you can prove anything, remove this
  • Special Walls such as Clefable may also be useful to cover Groudon's low Special Defense and can provide Wish support as well to preserve Groudon's health.
  • still could use more stuff, mons that appreciate SR support, etc, getting bored of listing these things
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Rest is a viable move on bulky Primal Groudon sets, as it is its only tool for recovery. However, the drawback of wasting two turns asleep can be crucial as your opponent is given the opportunity to setup or weaken Primal Groudon again. could try to use with heal bell users but that puts more of a burden on them, although it's still a possibility on stall
  • Overheat can also be used as a Special STAB option to reliably OHKO physical walls such as Skarmory, although it lowers Primal Groudon's Special Attack by two stages after one use, which may force it to switchout as a result.
  • Rock Tomb can be used as a niche coverage move that can lower the Speed of incoming wallbreakers such as Latios and offensive Arceus formes on the switchin, but the low BP of the move leaves much to be desired. lol sigh. I really just want to say no but at least mention hitting hooh for support don rather than latios
  • special sets, special RP sets,


Checks and Counters
===================

**Lugia**: Lugia can live most of Primal Groudon's non-boosted attack due to its massive bulk and can proceed to Toxic stall it to death thanks to Multiscale and Roost. Although, Lugia takes large amounts of damage from Stone Edge if Multiscale is not active. also doesnt like lava plume burns

**Ground-immune Dragon-types**: Pokemon such as Mega Rayquaza, Giratina-O, and Latios all resist both of Primal Groudon's STAB options and can break through it with their powerful attacks. However, Primal Groudon can run Dragon Claw or Dragon Tail as a coverage move to hit these threats as well. latias is also a better mon than latios, you could mention that

**Ground Arceus**: Ground Arceus can live any attack from Primal Groudon and can OHKO it with its own STAB Ground-type moves except EQ won't ohko standard support. Recover can help it stall out Primal Groudon, but the burn status from Lava Plume can cripple Ground Arceus, especially the physical sets.

**Water Arceus**: Water Arceus resists Fire-type attacks and can avoid the 2HKO from Precipice Blades. It can then Toxic stall Primal Groudon, however it does get beaten by Swords Dance variants. expand this to all support arceus variants, include dragon, fairy, normal.
**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre can overwrite Desolate Land with Primordial Sea and can threaten to OHKO Primal Groudon with its Water-type moves. However, it does not appreciate switching in on Primal Groudon's STAB Ground-type attacks. you also fail to mention that don can switch into ogre. it's kind of complicated and nothing is mentioned here

**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh can check Primal Groudon variants that do not decide to run Rock-type coverage moves, and can 2HKO it with Earthquake. Ho-Oh also benefits from not being weakened by burns from Lava Plume, although Stone Edge is a popular choice on Primal Groudon so switching it in becomes a risk in most cases.

you need separate sections for skarmory (beats all non fire move sets), yveltal (beats physically offensive sets) and chip damage (rocks, spikes, status, tspikes, getting chipped by weak attacks, etc).
Order should be Lugia/dragons/support arceus/hooh/groundceus/pogre/yveltal/skarmory/chip damage (also subject to change but that seems like a fair starting place and it only takes copy pasting to switch around)
Click to expand...
Definitely not stamping yet with all of this, let me know when implemented

Also pretty much everything by Quantum Tesseract is good to implement, I mostly skimmed but apart from mentioning random other sets in set details without asking anyone and mentioning quagsire in c&c it all looks good. The issue mostly stems from what isn't addressed, but what is all seems totally reasonable
 
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