Arcanine

KSG

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is a Tiering Contributor

Arcanine, and old reliable from the first generation, has always been a great Pokemon in UU play. With Generation 5, Arcanine now has some new toys to aid it drastically.

#59 Arcanine

Flash Fire/Intimidate

Base stats:
HP: 90
Attack: 110
Defense: 80
Special Attack: 100
Special Defense: 80
Speed: 95

Level-up moves:
Lv1: Thunder Fang, Lv1: Bite, Lv1: Roar, Lv1: Fire Fang, Lv1: Odor Sleuth, Lv39: ExtremeSpeed

TM/HM List:
TM05 - Roar, TM06 - Toxic, TM10 - Hidden Power, TM11 - Sunny Day, TM15 - Hyper Beam, TM17 - Protect, TM20 - Safeguard, TM21 - Frustration, TM22 - Solar Beam, TM27 - Return, TM28 - Dig, TM32 - Double Team, TM35 - Flamethower, TM38 - Fire Blast , TM40 - Aerial Ace, TM42 - Facade, TM43 - Nitro Charge, TM44 - Rest, TM45 - Attract, TM46 - Thief, TM48 - Troll, TM50 - Overheat, TM59 - Complete Burn, TM61 - Will-O-Wisp, TM67 - Get Even, TM68 - Giga Impact, TM78 - Smooth Over, TM87 - Swagger, TM90 - Substitute, TM93 - Wild Bolt, TM94 - Rock Smash, TM95 - Back Out, HM04 - Strength

Egg Moves:Body Slam, Crunch, Thrash, Fire Spin, Howl, Heat Wave, Double-Edge, Flare Blitz, Morning Sun, Covet, Iron Tail, Double Kick, Close Combat

...

Some footnotes. I'm not going to do old Arcanine sets, because they're 4 generation and I'm assuming you already know those.

  • Close Combat
    Whoa. Arcanine gained a whopper of an egg move in the 5th gen: Close Combat. Close Combat gives Arcanine a powerful option to hit Pokemon that would normally wall his physical sets, like Aggron and Omastar. In OU play, Arcanine can smash Blissey. Close Combat fills a slot in Arcanine's stumbling movepool.

  • Wild Volt
    In the 4th generation, Arcanine had to rely on a weak and slightly inaccurate Thunder Fang to hit one of its biggest roadblocks, Milotic. Now, with TM93 Wild Bolt, Arcanine can more consistently hit Milotic for 48.9% - 57.5% with max attack, Jolly and a LO, and 56% - 66.2% with Jolly and a CB. With Adamant and a Choice Band, you'll be doing up to 72.3%.

    Some minor notes:
    -With Flash Fire, Arcanine can switch in without trouble into Shanderaa and Urgamoth and nailing them with Crunch and/or Extremespeed respectively.
    -Arcanine also handles Nuttre and Chivalbug, hitting them with 4x stab attacks. Arcanine is a great Scizor counter with intimidate.

...

I'm not a great setmaker, so I'll post some later.
 
First off, I hate the new sprite.

More importantly, im not sure if these new movepool additions will get arcanine out of uu, but i think they will greatly help him down there and help arcanine maintain his status as one of the premiere uu fire types.
 
Close Combat alone would probably get Arcanine out of UU. I'm not sure how much base power Wild Bolt is but as long as it's stronger than Thunder Fang it's definitely going to be a plus for him.

With the type coverage Arcanine is getting offered along with Intimidate for easier switchins I think he will definitely be a Pokemon worth considering for teams in gen 5.
 
Close Combat alone would probably get Arcanine out of UU. I'm not sure how much base power Wild Bolt is but as long as it's stronger than Thunder Fang it's definitely going to be a plus for him.

With the type coverage Arcanine is getting offered along with Intimidate for easier switchins I think he will definitely be a Pokemon worth considering for teams in gen 5.
I would agree with that, but everything is just so damn powerful this gen, im not sure hes gonna be able to compete in ou. Think about ou fire types for example. Nape, speed boost blaziken, heatran, shanderaa, and the new fire/bug off the top of my head. Im not sure he'll find a place over one of those.
 

KSG

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is a Tiering Contributor
I'm pretty sure that Wild Bolt is the electric equivalent of Take Down, with 90 base damage.

EDIT: Also Hihidaruma. Anyway, the point is that with all of the new Fire types, Arcanine will be a great check to a lot of threats, and will probably be a fixture in UU play at the very least.
 
Arcanine is still gonna be stuck in UU. But these movepool additions will ensure that it remains a top threat in the tier. Infernape gets STAB on Close Combat and has 108 Base speed (and access to STAB priority), meaning that Arcanine will almost always be relegated to UU.
 

KSG

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is a Tiering Contributor
I'm not going to argue your Infernape advantages, except that Extremespeed from Arcanine does more than Infernape's STAB Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave, both because of a higher attack stat and higher base power.
 
Arcanine is still gonna be stuck in UU. But these movepool additions will ensure that it remains a top threat in the tier. Infernape gets STAB on Close Combat and has 108 Base speed (and access to STAB priority), meaning that Arcanine will almost always be relegated to UU.
Infernape also dies to everything unlike Arcanine. Granted Infernape probably is better overall as a glass cannon sweeper but Arcanine can actually take a few hits if necessary while still dishing out reasonable amount of damage.
 
Also forgot about new drought ninetales.

So that leaves us with these possibly ou fire types: infernape, blaziken, heatran, ninetailes, Hihidaruma, shanderaa, and the new bug/fire. where do you fit in an arcanine over one of those? thats the reason why i think he'll be solidly uu even with his new moves.
 
Arcanine is still gonna be stuck in UU. But these movepool additions will ensure that it remains a top threat in the tier. Infernape gets STAB on Close Combat and has 108 Base speed (and access to STAB priority), meaning that Arcanine will almost always be relegated to UU.
Nape also got Iron Fist, which gives it 90BP Thundepunch, so Wild Volt with no recoil.
 
Nice to see Arcanine finally getting Close Combat and a halfway decent electric move, but I'm guessing he'll still be stuck in UU (but maybe abusing Morning Sun/Flare Blitz with Drought Ninetales in OU?).

What do you guys think about Justice Heart (dark attacks do no damage and raise attack) on Arcanine? Probably won't be overly useful, since you can't switch in to one of the most popular dark-type moves (Pursuit); Intimidate and maybe Flash Fire will still be the most common abilities imo. Though I was kind of hoping for a better Dream World ability.
 
Arcanine also got Justice Heart which makes him immune to Dark type attacks and Gets a plus one attack boosts
 

KSG

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is a Tiering Contributor
Arcanine is different from most of those in that it can serve both as a counter to many pokemon and has the bulky to fire off powerful attacks while survive a few imself.
 
Arcanine is different from most of those in that it can serve both as a counter to many pokemon and has the bulky to fire off powerful attacks while survive a few imself.
Thats a great description of heatran. Now how about arcanine? ; )

EDIT; i forgot another possibly ou fire type. Victini, who is also bulky, has speed, and has great mixed attacking stats
 

KSG

your favorite player's favorite player
is a Tiering Contributor
Arcanine has better overall attacking stats than Victini, better abilities, and can beat Tyranitar, which Victini hates. Plus, Arcanine doesn't have that awful dual-Psychic typing.
 
Arcanine has better overall attacking stats than Victini, better abilities, and can beat Tyranitar, which Victini hates. Plus, Arcanine doesn't have that awful dual-Psychic typing.
Ok, you still didnt say how its better than hetran. Look, im not trying to say arcanine wont be used in ou, it will. After thinking about, i can imagine arcanine as evire of gen 4 level ou (in terms of usage, not effectivness). I just think that it will have an issue finding a niche, especially cause heatran counters stuff better (imo, you can dispute this) and blaziken/infernape make better use for fire/fighting. It could be ou, but im still thinking very high end uu.
 

KSG

your favorite player's favorite player
is a Tiering Contributor
The problem is that Heatran is an entirely different Pokemon. Arcanine is faster, has a much better attack stat, and can beat Blissey without killing itself. He isn't a bulky special attacker.
 
The problem is that Heatran is an entirely different Pokemon. Arcanine is faster, has a much better attack stat, and can beat Blissey without killing itself. He isn't a bulky special attacker.
Fair enough. I'm still not sure how "bulky" he'll be be in regards to ou play, especially with the massive power creep in this gen, but i'm not so obstinate as to not see your point. He may find himself with a small niche in the ou meta.
 
I could see Arcanine running one of these sets:

Arcanine@Life Orb / Expert Belt
Adamant; 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Wild Bolt
Flare Blitz
Extremespeed
Close Combat / Morning Sun

I can't think of anything that gets both CC and Morning Sun (unless it breeds with Smeargle, in which case the point is moot), but Arcanine will be choosing one or the other. Wild Bolt and extremespeed are necessary to distinguish it from other fire-types, while Flare Blitz is obligatory STAB. Close Combat fits more with the offensive theme of the set, but with both its main moves suffering from recoil (as well as LO, possibly), Morning Sun may be the more practical option.
 
SR weak, mediocre defenses,mediocre attack and STAB, coverage that is just barely good enough, Sandstorm, Hail and Rain weak..

He got a boost, but keep in mind he could run HP Ground before to deal with Heatran. He has one of the highest non-legendary or 600 BST in the game, but Arcanine is still UU material at best.
 
Will be a top tier UU or even BL, but I don't see him breaking into OU.

It really sucks he's pure fire, unlike...say...Heatran(Who at least gains some more resistances and a weak immunity, even if it does make him much more suspectible to ground attacks and fighting attacks). He has weaknesses to water, ground, rock, which also means it's weak to Stealth Rock. The fire resist/immunity and the ice resistance are quite nice, however.

It also kinda sucks you gotta choose between Morning Sun and Close Combat.
 
It also kinda sucks you gotta choose between Morning Sun and Close Combat.
You don't have to--Arcanine is in the Ground egg group, meaning that it can get any combination of egg moves from Smeargle. However, I'm not really sure that I would run both at the same time anyway (using a recovery move alongside a move that lowers your defenses seems a bit odd to me), especially with weather quite likely being very uncertain when BW first starts up, making it a risky option. I'd really rather run another coverage move over it, but we'll see how things end up going, I suppose.
 
I'd like to point out that Arcanine is already top tier UU, only staying down because of Milo and Rhyperior. With the ability to crush both of those it would definitely get bumped to BL. He won't be great in OU, but he'll be banned from lower tiers. He'll be Staraptor.
 
I'd like to point out that Arcanine is already top tier UU, only staying down because of Milo and Rhyperior. With the ability to crush both of those it would definitely get bumped to BL. He won't be great in OU, but he'll be banned from lower tiers. He'll be Staraptor.
It's way too soon to be saying things like that--CC may have definitely made it BL in 4th Gen UU, but we know nothing of what 5th gen UU will be like. Even if Arcanine doesn't make it to OU and remains UU by usage, remember, these changes to Arcanine don't exist in isolation--there are 156 new Pokemon, new moves, Dream World abilities, other old moves being given more distribution. We don't know which of these new Pokemon will wind up settling down into UU, and how the other changes will affect the first 4 Gen's Pokemon's tiering. Depending on which Pokemon end up settling down in UU after all's said and done, even if Arcanine remains UU, it's definitely too soon to say it'll be a definite BL, because other Pokemon that can handle it fine could wind up UU alongside it.
 

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