Arceus electric (Specially defensive set)

[latios777]

[SET]
name: Specially defensive
move 1: Recover
move 2: Judgment / Thunder
move 3: Wil-O-Wisp / Toxic
move 4: Roar / Perish Song / Ice beam
item: Zap plate
nature: Calm
evs: 248 HP / 204 SDef / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• Checks more threats in the metagame such as Palkia (specially in the sun), all Tornadus sets, more Arceus CM forms (Arceus Ground seems the only exception), Dialga, etc.
  
• Unlike Arceus Grass, no have weakness for fire attacks and others. One ground weakness helps. Earth power is not more common. Is not weak to Thunder, unlike Arceus Water.
  
• Resistances to electric attacks, wich are common. Resistance to flying and steel helps with Tornadus-T, Jirachi, Arceus-Steel, Ho-oh in rain without Eartquake....
  
• Not walled or set-up-fodder for Kyogre, Ho-oh and Lugia. No hazard-fodder of Skarmory and most Forretress.
  
• Recover and STAB electric are obvious choices for set. Judgment are generally better.Thunder is Rain dependent, but with Kyogre is more useful, but a little risky. On the other hand, using Thunder maybe seems counterproductive with Will-o-wisp (if you paralise Ferrothorn, it's impossible burn it, for example).
  
• Will-o-Wisp is the prefered option if you are afraid of Ferrothorn and your team aprecies this Stall effects. Cripples Groudon in the Switch and other physical attackers. Ice beam is other interesting option if you dislike the accuracity of Will-O-Wisp and prefer hit Rayquaza and other Dragons, but with no evs in Satk. is not very impressive. Toxic for check beter CM Arceus forms such as Arceus-Ghost.
  
• In the four slot, you should use Perish song or Roar for avoid boosters to set-up in your face. Perish song is a rare move with beter priority that helps if your oponent only have one pokemon that could boost. Roar is better if you desire to phaze directly and should be the primary option.
• Recover helps a lot, but lack of leftovers hurts a little.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Speed to beat Kyurem-W Modest and Rayquaza Adamant. Rest of evs for beter Special bulk.
• Kyogre is a great Teammate if you desire use Thunder. Kyogre helps to beat Groudon and ground types and Electriceus helps Kyogre taken Thunders.
• Stealth rock is other option, but is prefered other move if is possible. Ice beam and Will-O-Wisp can be use both if you need two. Thunderbolt is other possibility, but Judgment is more powerful and is prefere toxic or burn the oponent (especially in a stall team).
  
• Focus blast is an option for Kyurem-W, Kyurem-B and Ferrothorn, but it's less useful in general. Fire blast or flamethower for Ferrothorn are other possiblity.
• Latias and latios sinergyze well with Zapceus. Flying types are great answers for ground attacks. Landorus-t, Rayquaza, Lugia, Skarmory, Giratina-O or someone that are inmune or resists ground.
• Works well in Stall and balanced teams.
• Works well in Sun teams, but no take very well rain boosted attacks. Fire blast is more useful in this kind of teams.
  
• Rapid spin or magic bounce support is useful because is set-up fodder for Ferrothorn's hazards and lack leftovers.
• Something that beat Ferrothorn, unless you are using Fire blast/Flamethower.
  
• Works beter with Hazards, especially if you are using phazing moves. Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, Deoxys forms and Froslass are good partners for set up Spikes. Dialga, Ferrothorn, Deoxys forms, Groudon and landorus-T are good partners for set up Stealth rock.
  
• Partners that beat Chansey and Blissey are apreciated. Hazard users that set up Spikes or Stealth rock when the nurses appeared are interesting.
• Reshiram (in sun) is problematic because resists his STAB and can use a powerful Choice Specs Blue Flare to take down. Kyogre, Chansey or Ho-oh (in sun teams) are great partners for take Blue flares.
• More speed evs are possible for check some threats like Manaphy and Kyogre Timid. You need 124 Spd / 248 HP / 138 SDef for outspeed Kyogre Timid Max speed and others 90 base mons with Calm nature. With timid nature and 112 Spd / 248 HP / 138 SDef, you outspeed Manaphy, palkia, Landorus-I and Garchomp. More speed are possible, but the loss of Bulk is very noticeable.
• Physically defensive evs are possible but is weak to Earthquake and is better taking special attacks. Is interesting if you need check Ho-oh (in rain if is possible).
• Other options: Magic coat, Reflect, Light Screen and maybe Thunder Wave, Gravity or Tailwind (gimmicky at best).

 

[Brap]

Too many slashes for my likings.

I think it could be better as:

move 1: Recover
move 2: Judgment / Thunder
move 3: Wil-O-Wisp / Toxic
move 4: Roar / Perish Song / Ice Beam

Can be argued that Thunder deserves to be before Judgement (Note potential paralysis conflict with status move though), as it's a wall 3rd move should be solely a status move. Roar is better than Perish Song because in Ubers you don't really have time to be waiting 3 turns; you'll just take too much damage. Perish Song only better in the last-Pokemon-scenario. Maybe even Ice Beam should be slashed before Perish Song. Stick Stealth Rock in AC.

 

[latios777]

I change things according of your suggestions.

Yes, i think that Thunder only can be used with Ice beam. In Stall, better Judgment.
I test this Arceus one time with Thunder/Ice beam / Recover / Perish song.

But in stall I prefer with Wil-o-Wisp / Recover / Judgment / filler. Judgment better.

 

[MMII]

At the top left of the page there is a "thread tools" option that you can click to edit the title.

As for the set, it's unusual so I can't say anything right off hte bat for sure. At a glance, though, I'm considering just making it a general support set with max speed instead of spdef but I'll get to testing it before deciding on any changes for you to make.

 

[shrang]

I can't see this being useful. Electric is a crappy defensive type. What are you trying to tank with this Arceus? You're not tanking Spacial Rend any better than a proper support Arceus like Grassceus, you're still taking neutral damage from Ice Beam and still getting raped by rain boosted water moves. The only common special attack you can take well is Thunder, which if that's what you want, why wouldn't use Groundceus or Groudon, or whatever, which have further utility elsewhere.

qc rejected 1/3

 

[latios777]

Wallceus is in the similar vein: no resistances, one inmunity and one weakness.
Electriceus: three uncomon resistances (except electric) and ONE WEAKNESS.

Electriceus is not weak to Ho-oh and Lugia unlike Grassceus and is not weak to Fire blast and Ice beam.
In rain checks Ho-oh and is the one of the best counters to Tornadus-I /T (uncommon, yes).
Also, check all CM Arceus forms besides Arceus Ground (who prefers SD most of the time).

I test it, but Showdown logs are not available in this moment. With this set I rank 2000 + using it in two diferent teams. (sunny and rain teams).

 

[RotomPoison]

Maybe it has the defensive typing, Normal has no resistances and Grass is weak to 5 things, sure. Notice how CM Arceus uses resistances and switches to set up and not neutral hits because Outrages usually 2HKO. (-Steel) If you for some reason want to use a specially defensive Arceus-Electric, go ahead, but it just isn't good enough. Arceus-Electric is better off being a CM user with STAB on Thunder being great along with Ice Beam giving it good coverage.

As for the thing about Grass, how is it Lugia weak? Are you seriously considering Aeroblast for it, or do you think those Ice Beams do ANYTHING? Ho-oh I can give you, if Earthquake didn't exist, which will 2HKO anyway while a defensive Arceus-Electric can not do much back due to Ho-oh having amazing special defense, even if it is super effective, no one is keeping Ho-oh in against this thing in Rain. Being a Tornadus(T) counter is not enough to be anything since almost anything not weak to flying checks it. This also does not check "all CM Arceus forms besides Arceus Ground"

While I doubt you really hit 2000 twice with this, if you did, good for you, the ladder is bad. This set is just bad.

Sorry, not QC but just had to say something.

 

[shrang]

Wallceus is in the similar vein: no resistances, one inmunity and one weakness.
Electriceus: three uncomon resistances (except electric) and ONE WEAKNESS.

Electriceus is not weak to Ho-oh and Lugia unlike Grassceus and is not weak to Fire blast and Ice beam.
In rain checks Ho-oh and is the one of the best counters to Tornadus-I /T (uncommon, yes).
Also, check all CM Arceus forms besides Arceus Ground (who prefers SD most of the time).

I test it, but Showdown logs are not available in this moment. With this set I rank 2000 + using it in two diferent teams. (sunny and rain teams).

Couple of things wrong with your argument. Yes, it is true that Wallceus and Electric Arceus are similar in terms of immunity and weaknesses, however, you're overlooking a couple of things. Firstly, it is very important to note that Wallceus is a physical wall, with things to cripple physical attackers with - namely Will-O-Wisp. With Will-O-Wisp, the only Pokemon that can actually break through Wallceus are pretty much special attackers and Ho-oh. Now lets compare it to Electric Arceus. What can it do against special attackers? I guess you can hit them with Thunder, but with no special investment, you're not going very far. It has very little to cripple special attackers or even wall them (you're outsped and 2HKOed by Lustrous Palkia's Surf in the rain after SR, for example), so running a specially defensive set is just kind of pointless.

Your list is kind of missing the point too. Yes, Electric Arceus is not weak to Ho-oh and Lugia, but since your set is supposed to be a specially defensive one, or at least some kind of pivot, you're hitting the wrong targets. Ho-oh and Lugia are not special attackers. While yes, Grass Arceus is weak to them, it does its job well, which is to be an excellent counter to Kyogre and Palkia. What does Electric Arceus wall? You mentioned Tornadus-I/T, but they aren't exactly that important of threats in Ubers that you need to dedicate an entire set to them. Furthermore, everything that you've listed so far can be done with Rock Arceus, which not only walls Ho-oh in the rain, but in the sun, sand, hail, or whatever. In addition to Electric Arceus's advantages, Rock Arceus can check Ekiller and can get boosts if Sandstorm is up. So basically, this set either 1) not very good at what it's supposed to do (wall special attackers), and 2) even if could, it's outclassed by something better.

 

[latios777]

It's a good set, but it's possible that is not enough important or good to add at web.
Yes Shrang, I tested with good results, but your coments are really true in more things and I agree with you (sorry if my english are bad, lol).
Maybe need some evs in speed for check better some threats, is a possiblity. (334 speed for garchomp, landorus-I manaphy or palkia).
Well, the QC decide. I wish to shown some logs but are impossible in this moments, sorry.


dbzmariogeno@. Yeah, good players not use aeroblast in lugia (is more rare).Is not bad, but 8 pps sucks.
Simply, Grassceus not touch Lugia and Ho-oh hard.
Yes, CM electriceus are beter, I tested and is strong, but I think that this thing should be have a niche maybe.

Is true that this arceus-electric no counters Ho-oh in rain if carries EQ and predict you, but is capable to damage it with Judgment/thunder. Yes, Thunder is no OHKO with no evs in Satk.

Thanks for coment. QC decide if are enough good or not.

 

[MMII]

My main problem with this support set is that it doesn't really do anything that the CM set can't accomplish. I also feel like the defensive typing is too specific, it only benefits teams that are weak to Flying types and Zekrom that want to avoid the nasty Fighting weakness that Rockceus has. (but it still shares the often equally bothersome ground weakness) So QC Rejected 2/3, it's just far too niche to deserve being onsite.

 

[Blue Jay]

I'd also like to point out that one of the major benefits Wallceus has going for it is the ability to carry Leftovers, which gives it a certain edge over other Arceus formes defensively (although usually resistances and/or a useful Judgment typing are too good to pass up).

Steel is also hardly an uncommon resistance; essentially any rain/sand and some sun teams will carry a Steel type.

 

[Furai]

QC Rejected 3/3

for the reasons stated above.

sorry, good luck next time! moving.