Arceus-Rock [QC 1/3]

[DoW]

[OVERVIEW]

• Arceus-Rock's typing, supported by good stats, allows it to switch in on most Mega Rayquaza sets' Dragon Ascent and V-Create, including Scarf, Banded, and Dragon Dance sets not carrying Earthquake. This allows it to act as an offensive check to the pokemon.
• It can also counter a number of other threats, notably Flying-types including Yveltal and Ho-oh, thanks to its solid typing and good stats.
• Using only Judgment, its neutral coverage isn't awful, and so Arceus-Rock is able to limit the number of times many counters can switch into it.
• Its movepool gives it advantages over Tyranitar, the only other relevant Rock-type, including reliable recovery and status moves like Will-O-Wisp.
• Arceus-Rock's movepool also has a number of good offensive options, including Fire Blast and Ice Beam, as well as Calm Mind. However, as a Calm Mind user, it is often outclassed by other options such as Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Ground, and Necrozma-Ultra.
• Arceus-Rock's typing gives it a number of weaknesses, meaning a large number of common Pokemon including bulky Necrozma Dusk Mane sets and Marshadow counter it.
• It also isn't a perfect answer to the pokemon it counters, as many Mega Rayquaza sets can win with Earthquake, while Ho-oh and Yveltal can put it on a timer with Toxic.
• Arceus-Rock faces competition from Tyranitar, which is able to answer Mega Rayquaza while also being the premier pursuit trapper in the tier. However, the pokemon lacks many things Arceus-Rock has, including access to Recover or Will-O-Wisp.
• Arceus-Rock also gives away momentum rather easily, as a large number of pokemon are able to come in easily on it if Arceus doesn't carry options to threaten them, and doesn't set rocks to force them to defog. Such pokemon include Zygarde-Complete, many opposing Arceus formes, and most Steel-types that don't fear Will-O-Wisp.

[SET]
name: Flying-type check
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Stealth Rock / Roar / Perish Song
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment allows Arceus-Rock to beat both Yveltal and Ho-oh, always OHKOing Ho-oh and taking down offensive Yveltal after Stealth Rock. It also 2HKOs Mega Rayquaza after Stealth Rock or a single Dragon Ascent special defense drop.
• Judgment also allows Arceus-Rock to deal damage to a number of pokemon as they switch in, including Primal Groudon and various support Arceus formes.
• Recover allows Arceus to remain at high health throughout the game, keeping it able to check those pokemon it needs to check.
• Will-O-Wisp allows Arceus to beat Mega Rayquaza more consistently, as well as crippling a number of pokemon that would otherwise happily switch into it such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Zygarde, and Marshadow.
• Stealth Rock allows Arceus to take advantage of the switches it often causes, either helping against the pokemon it needs to check, or allowing a free switch as the opponent removes them again. However, note that many teams use support Arceus formes carrying Toxic as their defoggers, and these will beat Arceus-Rock.
• Toxic can be run instead of Will-O-Wisp to hit switch-ins such as Primal Groudon and support Arceus formes with on the switch-in.
• Arceus-Rock can also use Roar or Perish Song in the final slot. Both do similar jobs in phazing opposing pokemon, and allowing Arceus-Rock to stop Vivillon, but Roar helps against Gothitelle whereas Perish Song can be more useful as the opponent switches to a setup sweeper, and is more helpful against Perish Song.

Set Details
========

• Max Speed investment is used because Arceus-Rock needs to outspeed Mega Rayquaza, and appreciates speed tying other Arceus.
• Max HP investment is used to help Arceus-Rock take hits from various threats, and keep checking pokemon throughout the game.
• The combination of Stone Plate and Multitype gives Arceus its Rock typing, and gives Judgment its typing and a slight boost in power.
• An alternative EV spread of 148 HP / 144 SpA / 216 Spe is possible to run. This gives Arceus-Rock more speed than Jolly Mega Rayquaza and enough Special Attack to defeat Mega Sableye, with the remainder invested in HP. However, the loss of bulk is extremely noticable, for example giving Scarf Yveltal a 1 in 3 chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock, and Life Orb Rayquaza a 16% chance to 2HKO with burned Earthquake after Stealth Rock and healthy Dragon Ascent damage.
• Some of the HP EVs can be shifted to Defense instead, giving Arceus-Rock a greater physical bulk. However, this comes at a price of greater lost Special bulk, meaning this is generally not a good idea.

Usage Tips
========

• Because of the number of pokemon that can force Arceus-Rock out, and the danger posed by the pokemon it checks, it is worth keeping healthy with Recover rather than taking risks early-game.
• Make sure to switch Arceus-Rock in to flying-types liberally, as that's what the pokemon is there for. For example, losing Arceus-Rock in exchange for the opponent's Mega Rayquazashould always be considered a good exchange. The only exception to this would be scouting for Toxic on an opposing Ho-oh or Yveltal.
• Through Judgment and Will-O-Wisp, Arceus-Rock does well against a number of these pokemon if it simply continues letting them switch in on it throughout the game. As such, don't feel the need to double switch to a counter for every pokemon you predict will come in against it, especially when it might be possible to burn a pokemon like Zygarde or Marshadow.
• Be cautious of opposing Toxic users such as support Arceus formes or Necrozma Dusk Mane, as this status can make it much more difficult for Arceus to wear down counters.
• Don't let Arceus-Rock become setup fodder - however predictable, it's generally a much better option to switch to a counter against pokemon such as Xerneas, Calm Mind Necrozma, or Rock Polish Primal Groudon than trying to stay in and set up Rocks or Toxic.
• Beware of giving away momentum when using Arceus. Sometimes an incoming support arceus forme can safely ignore damage from a single Judgement and then threaten Arceus-Rock out. In these situations, a move such as Stealth Rock which the opponent would have to then Defog allows you to switch out from Arceus-Rock much more safely, giving the opponent less of an opportunity to damage your switch-in.
• Note that many Mega Rayquaza carry a move that can deal with Arceus-Rock, such as Earthquake, Surf, or Choice Banded Outrage, which will make the decision of whether to switch to Arceus-Rock a 50/50. However, it is generally safe to make this switch if the opponent does not know the forme of your Arceus. As such, avoid revealing the forme where possible, to make beating Rayquaza easier.

Team Options
========

• Arceus-Rock does a good job at beating a number of key pokemon, especially Mega Rayquaza. As such, it is a solid fit on balanced and bulky offense teams already weak to these threats, and it is often better to include Arceus-Rock with other pokemon rather than attempting to build a team around it.
• This set works well on balanced teams that appreciate threats being worn down - these teams also often appreciate a switch-in to Mega Rayquaza, which Arceus-Rock provides.
• Offensive pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock are those that appreciate common counters being worn down. For example, Xerneas appreciates Arceus-Rock wearing down pokemon such as Primal Groudon, while being able to threaten pokemon like Marshadow and Zygarde.
• Similarly, Primal Groudon pairs well, as it appreciates an answer to Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and answers threats to Arceus-Rock including many Steel-types such as Ferrothorn. Running Stealth Rock on Arceus also allows for Primal Groudon to run a more offensive set.
• There are a number of pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock due to dealing well with offensive threats to Arceus-Rock while appreciating the pokemon that Arceus-Rock threatens. These include Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, and Yveltal, all of which switch into a number of pokemon that threaten Arceus-Rock such as Primal Groudon and Necrozma Dusk-Mane, while Yveltal also threatens Marshadow. Similarly, Giratina is able to answer many of the pokemon Arceus-Rock dislikes.
• Celesteela is an excellent teammate for Arceus-Rock, largely because with accurate prediction, the combination of these two pokemon is able to always defeat Mega Rayquaza. Celesteela is also able to answer support Arceus that come in on Arceus-Rock, which also appreciates the slight HP boosts from Leech seed. Moreover, Arceus-Rock handles Ho-oh and Yveltal, both of which can be troublesome for Celesteela.
• Trappers including Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are good partners for Arceus-Rock, as they are able to trap many of the common answers such as Support Arceus formes, and stallier Pokemon such as Chansey and Celesteela, allowing Arceus-Rock to do a better job of wearing down threats like Primal Groudon, and removing defoggers.
• Due to Arceus-Rock's dislike to toxic, partners that can absorb status such as Arceus-Poison, Steel-types, or pokemon with Rest such as Giratina or Zygarde-C can not only support Arcues-Rock but also appreciate coming in for free on the move.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Calm Mind / Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment makes use of a strong STAB Rock move, with relatively good neutral coverage on its own.
• Recover allows Arceus to recover HP throughout the game, allowing it to come in multiple times and set up more effectively.
• Calm Mind allows Arceus to function as an effective setup sweeper, allowing it to clean against weakened or unprepared teams with the help of coverage.
• Fire Blast hits most pokemon that Rock-type Judgment does not hit, such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn.
• Ice Beam is further coverage, hitting ground-types such as Arceus-Ground and Zygarde, and allows Arceus to lure in and KO Zygarde. It also gives particularly good coverage alongside Fire Blast.
• Refresh is an option over coverage to prevent the Calm Mind set from being broken by pokemon carrying Toxic, and turns such pokemon to setup fodder.

Set Details
========

• Arceus still wants to function as a Mega Rayquaza check, and so high speed is required. This is also helps set up against special attackers, such as many support Arceus formes.
• EVs are invested into HP to help Arceus set up easily, as well as taking hits from pokemon that it checks before trying to set up.
• These HP EVs also assist it in checking Mega Rayquaza, for example allowing it to always live a Life Orb Earthquake.
• If Calm Mind is not carried, these EVs should be placed in Special Attack, to make Arceus-Rock as imposing as possible.
• If Calm Mind is run, a spread investing in SpA is also possible. However, it should be noted that such a set will be significantly easier to KO.

Usage Tips
========

• Calm Mind Arceus-Rock works well as a late-game cleaner, when its checks have been weakened enough for it to set up and sweep the remaining pokemon.
• Offensive Arceus-Rock sets are relatively easy to check, thanks to the wide variety of viable pokemon naturally capable of this. As such, it often makes sense not to reveal Arceus-Rock's forme if possible, as this will make the opponent more willing for checks such as Necrozma Dusk Mane to be weakened.
• Alternatively, in many situations it instead makes more sense for Arceus-Rock to weaken checks to other pokemon on the team. This is often the case where the opponent has a large number of checks to Arceus-Rock, or Arceus-Rock is required to check an opposing threat such as Mega Rayquaza. It is also often true of non-Calm Mind variants.
• Be aware that the opponent will often predict a support set rather than the offensive set, and therefore may not expect coverage moves like Fire Blast or Ice Beam. Be sure not to reveal these coverage moves when there is still a possibility they could be used to lure a key threat, such as Ice Beam for Zygarde.

Team Options
========

• This set appreciates other threats on the team that are able to wear down potential checks. Examples include Xerneas, which can wear down common counters such as Primal Groudon.
• Pokemon that pair well defensively with Arceus-Rock make good teammates, including Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, Giratina formes, and Yveltal, all of which answer a number of threats to Arceus-Rock such as Steel-types, Primal Groudon, opposing Zygarde, and Marshadow to some degree. Other pokemon that can help against these threats include Celesteela, Primal Groudon, and Ho-Oh. It is worth choosing your coverage options based on which threats these teammates handle well, and what your team struggles with.
• Wallbreakers like Banded Mega Rayquaza are able to open holes in bulkier teams, giving Arceus-Rock more opportunities to damage the opposing team.
• Similarly, Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are able to open holes in teams' defensive cores, and remove pokemon such as Toxic Arceus formes, allowing Arceus-Rock to perform its job better.
• If your team brings a trapper, a ground-type such as Arceus-Ground will pair well, as it will remove threats to Arceus-Rock including Necrozma-DM and Primal Groudon, while also being able to come in as Tyranitar switches in on the trapper.
• Offensive Arceus-Rock appreciates both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as they help it pick up key KOs such as a 3/4 chance to 2HKO offensive Necrozma-DM with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. Arceus-Rock is able to assist Spikes teams in turn, by threatening Flying-type pokemon that are unharmed by Spikes. A good teammate that can provide Spikes support is Ferrothorn, which is able to switch in against Primal Kyogre.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• As with many Arceus formes, Defog is viable on Arceus-Rock's support set. However, the pokemon loses to most common Stealth Rock setters, and so is generally outclassed as a defogger.
• Flamethrower is an option over Fire Blast on an offensive set, but the loss of power is very noticeable, for example missing out on a 2HKO against Celesteela after Stealth Rock.
• Support moves such as Thunder Wave or Magic Coat are occasionally worthwhile, but generally less useful than options like Toxic or Roar, as well as being more passive.
• Calm Mind sets may consider running Roar in order to use other Calm Mind Arceus formes as settup fodder then force them out. However, this strategy is of limited use compared to other Moveslot options.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Bulky Primal Groudon sets easily counter Arceus-Rock, while offensive sets are able to check the pokemon. Note that Bulky sets are only able to switch in on Arceus' Judgment a limited number of times before they are no longer able to check other big threats. Zygarde and physically offensive Arceus-Ground easily defeat non-Ice Beam Arceus-Rock, but dislike Will-O-Wisp unless running Rest or Refresh. Calm Mind Arceus-Ground similarly threatens Arceus-Rock to a large degree. Special support Arceus-Ground sets fail to KO +1 Arceus-Rock if it runs Calm Mind, and can dislike Toxic, but will otherwise Recover off Ice Beam and threaten to KO Arceus-Rock while Defogging Stealth Rock.

**Steel-types**: Necrozma Dusk-Mane and Arceus-Steel are both able to counter most Arceus-Rock, with physical sets disliking Will-O-Wisp but Calm Mind sets threatening to use it as setup fodder. Ferrothorn and Celesteela lose to Fire Blast, but otherwise counter Arceus-Rock. Other Steels such as Magearna are able to counter Arceus-Rock easily. However, many of these pokemon would prefer not to switch in on a Will-O-Wisp, due to the chip damage as well as reduced physical attack in the cases of physical sets. Dialga happily sets Stealth Rock on Arceus-Rock while threatening Flash Cannon.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre counters Arceus-Rock, with only an extremely small chance of both failing to OHKO and being 2HKO'd by a Calm Mind-boosted variant. However, unless it runs Rest, it can only switch in a limited number of times.

**Support Arceus formes**: Support Arceus formes are, in general, able to take any punches Arceus-Rock can throw at them, Defog away its rocks, and wear it down with Toxic or super effective moves in return. Calm Mind Arceus-Rock may be able to set up on some variants, but most will be able to stop it with either Toxic or Phazing. Arceus-Rock variants carrying Toxic can threaten them back, but will still be worn down by them.

**Specially Defensive pokemon**: Arceus-Rock is completely walled by pokemon such as Blissey. Mega Sableye is able to hard counter Arceus-Rock not running Calm Mind, unless it invests very significantly in Special Attack. Rarer Pokemon such as Clefable or Toxapex are similarly beat Arceus-Rock, with the exception of Toxic Arceus-Rock beating Clefable.

**Gothitelle**: Gothitelle is able to trap Arceus-Rock, and defeat it with Confide followed by pp-stalling Judgment. This is extremely effective against support set unless it has Roar, and while offensive sets have more counterplay thanks to Calm Mind or Ice Beam Freezes, Gothitelle will still revenge kill it at +0 a majority of the time.

**Status conditions**: Arceus-Rock struggles to check pokemon like Mega Rayquaza unless it is on very high HP. As such, Toxic is able to prevent it from doing its job very effectively, at worst forcing the pokemon to recover when it would rather be threatening switch-ins with Judgment of Will-O-Wisp. Similarly, Paralysis is able to prevent Arceus-Rock from using Recover when its health is too low to counter threats, or from using moves like Will-O-Wisp or Judgment against such threats. Pokemon that are able to threaten Arceus with status include some Mega Rayquaza variants, notably scarf sets that run toxic, as well as Ho-Oh that run Toxic or occasionally THunder Wave. Similarly, Toxic Spikes users such as Toxapex are able to threaten Arceus-Rock.

**Fighting-types**: Marshadow, as well as less common Fighting-types such as Mega Mewtwo X, all easily come in on Judgment and KO Arceus-Rock. However, they don't enjoy switching in on Will-O-Wisp.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[DoW, 193182]]
- Quality checked by: [[lotiasite, 302985], [, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

 

[DoW]

Isnt Ttar the only other relevant rocktype in AG (relevant as in used commonly unlike aero or sth)? Also due to taking neutral from Judgment Pdon doesnt necessairly counter (all Rockceus sets vs all Pdon sets). You could also mention CM sets with Refresh or WoW or idk even CM 3 attacks (Rock, Fire & Ice) as it is hitting most things for good dmg or just Ice Beam as coverage option against Zygarde on both defensive and offensive Rockceus. Imo Defog, Toxic and Refresh are also options on defensive Rockceus. Just some thoughts :)

Thanks for the feedback ^_^
Obviously it's still only a WIP at this stage, but it's always good to have suggestions throughout the process rather than just at the end that forces you to rewrite everything.

Ttar is the only serious competition, and yah recover and wow are the main things rockceus have over it, but I didn't explicitly mention it because I wasn't sure if that was needed. Solrock also exists, but is pretty laughable most of the time. Shuckle obviously does a completely different job.
It's true that offensive pdon doesn't switch in on SpA-invested Rockceus, while some defensive pdon sets don't bother with a ground move. However, according to the 1760-weighted May stats, 90% of pdon carried either eq or pblades (assuming they're mutually exclusive), while Rock Polish was at 19% and Swords Dance at 11%. That said, I'm happy to change it to "bulky pdon".
I've already got Tox in the Moves section. I was gonna add Refresh and Defog in OO - With Refresh it no longer fears random toxics but at the same time it just sits there against most things taht would toxic it and doesn't have any threats. I'm not convinced on Defog most of the time, as setters like pdon and necro-dm generally beat it, as well as support arc formes with both rocks and tox. That's why it'll be in OO rather than the Moves section.

I'ma add an offensive rockceus, even though in general I consider it to be inferior to other offensive arc sets like cm darkceus.

 

[GRNBLN]

Thanks for the feedback ^_^
Obviously it's still only a WIP at this stage, but it's always good to have suggestions throughout the process rather than just at the end that forces you to rewrite everything.

Ttar is the only serious competition, and yah recover and wow are the main things rockceus have over it, but I didn't explicitly mention it because I wasn't sure if that was needed. Solrock also exists, but is pretty laughable most of the time. Shuckle obviously does a completely different job.
It's true that offensive pdon doesn't switch in on SpA-invested Rockceus, while some defensive pdon sets don't bother with a ground move. However, according to the 1760-weighted May stats, 90% of pdon carried either eq or pblades (assuming they're mutually exclusive), while Rock Polish was at 19% and Swords Dance at 11%. That said, I'm happy to change it to "bulky pdon".
I've already got Tox in the Moves section. I was gonna add Refresh and Defog in OO - With Refresh it no longer fears random toxics but at the same time it just sits there against most things taht would toxic it and doesn't have any threats. I'm not convinced on Defog most of the time, as setters like pdon and necro-dm generally beat it, as well as support arc formes with both rocks and tox. That's why it'll be in OO rather than the Moves section.

I'ma add an offensive rockceus, even though in general I consider it to be inferior to other offensive arc sets like cm darkceus.

ye saw it :) just wanted to mention so everything is included as I consider Rockceus an interesting mon that really took a hit with the addition of Zygarde and Dusk-Mane. Ye offensive Rockceus is not the first thing ppl will expect and I agree that most Arcs do it better but resisting Rays main STAB and being the main CM form that can break Ho-Oh (without Thunder) while still hitting alot of the Tier neutral should still earn it a mention imo. Might be biased as I got late game swept by one in a SSNL round. Solrock on the other hand, even tho I vouched for it to be D-Rank, has the same problem but worse as you cant do anything to Zygarde and Dusk-Mane just pops you unless you wisp it before. To add insult to injury most Pdon sets are Overheat these days and as you are forced to have max def also can do alot on the switch in. But as this is not about Solrock I am just gonna let you do your thing :)! Forgot to read through move mentions my bad lol and forgot about roar and perish myself as basically all support Arcs can run them too. Gonna be fun to see how many ppl will mention Twave the forgotten underrated Status move haha

 

[Uselesscrab]

DoW can you please get this out of wip

 

[DoW]

DoW can you please get this out of wip

Sorry for the delay here, I've been gradually working on it as I had time and deliberately didn't choose a super-important mon so that it wouldn't matter a huge deal if it took a while.

I should be able to get it into QC by the end of the weekend with any luck, though.

 

[DoW]

Well, I'm 100% unhappy about my Team Options section, but it's been long enough and

So I'm opening this to QC, I guess.

 

[MZ]

So I did say I would check this and every other analysis despite the shortcomings in TO because it's here and I'm about to check every single analysis. But I gotta be honest DoW, this analysis just sucks. The overview is really generic and doesn't really give me a great idea of what it does, I wouldn't call either of the usage tips sections acceptable, and I disagree with a lot of the points around the analysis. That doesn't even go into how QC would basically have to ghost write TO, which yeah cata said that's how it should work but it isn't and that sucks. I mean even checks and counters looks really, really outdated, and problematic. I would either put this back into WIP for a while (talk to more people, ask the qc team for advice, get more familiar with the meta so there aren't Aegislash mentions, etc) or just drop the analysis entirely, but even as someone who is going to spend another 1-2 hours checking all the AG analyses I can, putting my effort into this seems entirely misplaced. QC rejected.

 

[DoW]

That's fair, I was somewhat short on time when I wrote this and I wasn't at all happy with leaving TO like that. I'll be more free after this weekend, so I'll leave this in WIP and get it into a better state for you guys to come back to in maybe a week or two.

 

[Uselesscrab]

any progress DoW

 

[DoW]

My WiFi's getting sorted tomorrow, will work on this after that.

 

[a loser]

[SET]
name: Rayquaza check
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Will-o-Wisp
move 4: Stealth Rock
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Jolly

Just happened to peek in here. I don't play AG, but why is it Jolly Nature on all your sets over Timid?

 

[DoW]

Just happened to peek in here. I don't play AG, but why is it Jolly Nature on all your sets over Timid?

Whoops, my bad. I can see from my calcs and my teams on PS! that I was using Timid on both of those, that's now fixed.
I've also done a whole bunch of work on the first set, changes to the 2nd set should be happening this week.

 

[DoW]

Apologies for how long this has taken me, turned out I'd be much busier than I had expected, but I kept slowly working at it throughout. Having reviewd pretty much every section of this, I'm now moving it back to QC.

 

[lotiasite]

QC: / /
GP: /​

[OVERVIEW]

• Arceus-Rock's typing, supported by good stats, allows it to switch in on Banded Mega Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent and V-Create. scarf as well, as well as non-eq dd ray This allows it to act as an offensive check to the pokemon.
• It can also counter a number of other threats, specifically mention flying-types bc that's its niche including Yveltal and Ho-oh, thanks to its solid typing and good stats.
• Using only Judgment, its neutral coverage is reasonably good, and deals in the region of 30% to many switch-ins such as Primal Groudon. dont mention this, especially not specific percentages. rock is not an especially good offensive typing, since pdon rests it off and nothing you hit se is staying in, and everything switching in has recovery
• Its movepool gives it advantages over other relevant Rock-types, including reliable recovery and status moves like Will-o-Wisp. It also has a number of good offensive options in its movepool, including Fire Blast and Ice Beam. the only other relevant rock-type is tyranitar, so just mention it specifically. also say that offensively its niche is mostly as a cm user that can break through hooh, which no other can. however, it's generally outclassed by other cm users (groundceus, fairyceus, even ultra necro) in pretty much every other area bc they have better defensive typings
• However, Arceus-Rock's typing also gives it a number of weaknesses, meaning a large number of common Pokemon including bulky Primal Groudon sets and Marshadow counter it.
• It also isn't a perfect answer to the pokemon it counters, as many Mega Rayquaza sets can win with Earthquake, while Ho-oh and Yveltal can put it on a timer with Toxic.
• say that it also faces competition from ttar bc ttar is a more reliable ray check and also kills hooh and yveltal while also trapping gengar and ultra necrozma
• rockceus gives free switches to a decent range of stuff: zygarde-c (rests wisp), groundceus, support arc, rest pdon, ferrothorn, steelceus, actually pretty much every steel type

[SET]
name: Rayquaza check Flying-type check or support or something is better, arceus-rock is just not the best ray check out there for this to be the set name
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Will-o-Wisp
move 4: Stealth Rock i really dont like stealth rock unslashed bc arceus-rock threatens zero defoggers besides hooh and loses to pretty much every other one; sr/roar/psong seems ok
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment allows Arceus-Rock to beat both Yveltal and Ho-oh, always OHKOing Ho-oh and taking down offensive Yveltal after Stealth Rock. It also 2HKOs Mega Rayquaza after Stealth Rock or a single Dragon Ascent special defense drop.
• Judgment also allows Arceus-Rock to deal damage to a number of pokemon as they switch in, including Primal Groudon and various support Arceus formes.
• Recover allows Arceus to remain at high health throughout the game, keeping it able to check those pokemon it needs to check.
• Will-o-Wisp allows Arceus to beat Mega Rayquaza more consistently, as well as crippling a number of pokemon that would otherwise happily switch into it such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Zygarde, and Marshadow.
• Stealth Rock allows Arceus to take advantage of the switches it often causes, either helping against the pokemon it needs to check, or allowing a free switch as the opponent removes them again. However, note that many teams use support Arceus formes carrying Toxic as their defoggers, and these will beat Arceus-Rock.
• Toxic is another option to hit switch-ins such as Primal Groudon and support Arceus formes with on the switch-in. double status rockceus is not a thing, bump this down to OO
• Arceus-Rock can also use Roar or Perish Song in the final slot. Both do similar jobs in phazing opposing pokemon, but Roar helps against Gothitelle whereas Perish Song can be more useful as the opponent switches to a setup sweeper. importantly, they allow you to not autolose to vivillon, and psong is more useful against bp

Set Details
========

• Arceus-Rock requires at least 216 Speed EVs coupled with a speed-boosting nature in order to outspeed Jolly Mega Rayquaza. As such, it is well worth investing the extra 36 EVs into speed-tying other Arceus, especially since investing those EVs in Defense will still allow Mega Rayquaza's +1 Earthquake to KO 100% of the time. just say max speed because speed tying with arceus
• The remaining EVs are invested in HP, in order to take hits such as Choice Band Ho-oh's Earthquake. no, hp is important so that you can keep checking ray, hooh, and yveltal, not "remaining EVs". also cb hooh is pretty rare nowadays, no need to mention examples here
• The combination of Stone Plate and Multitype gives Arceus its Rock typing, and gives Judgment its typing and a slight boost in power. The lack of good special rock moves in Arceus' movepool means that it would have to use Stone Edge alongside Rockium Z; this would allow Arceus to handle Gothitelle, but is not worth considering due to added difficulty in removing Yveltal and the bad accuracy of the move. remove everything after the first sentence. physical rockium is unviable
• An alternative EV spread of 148 HP / 144 SpA / 216 Spe is possible to run. This gives Arceus-Rock more speed than Jolly Mega Rayquaza and enough Special Attack to defeat Mega Sableye, with the remainder invested in HP. However, the loss of bulk is extremely noticable, for example giving Scarf Yveltal a 1 in 3 chance of KOing 2hkoing, not KOing after Stealth Rock, and Life Orb Rayquaza a 16% chance to KO with burned Earthquake after Stealth Rock and healthy Dragon Ascent damage.
• Some of the HP EVs can be shifted to Defense instead, giving Arceus-Rock a greater physical bulk. However, this comes at a price of greater lost Special bulk, meaning this is generally not a good idea.

Usage Tips
========

• Because of the number of pokemon that can force Arceus-Rock out, and the danger posed by the pokemon it checks, it is worth keeping healthy with Recover rather than taking risks early-game. For example, an Arceus-Rock at 50% HP will no longer be able to come in on Choice Scarf Rayquaza's Dragon Ascent, making it far less useful for the remainder of the game. no need for this extraneous last sentence, it's implied. saying use recover liberally is enough
• switch liberally into flying-types like yveltal and ho-oh, but you might have to scout for toxic hooh first
• Through Judgment and Will-o-Wisp, Arceus-Rock does well against a number of these pokemon if it simply continues letting them switch in on it throughout the game. As such, don't feel the need to double switch to a counter for every pokemon you predict will come in against it. specifically say to use wisp on predicted switches to mons like zygarde, marsh, and necro-dm
• Be cautious of opposing Toxic users, examples as this status can make it much more difficult for Arceus to wear down counters.
• Don't let Arceus-Rock become setup fodder - however predictable, it's generally a much better option to switch to a counter against pokemon such as Xerneas or potential Calm Mind Necrozma or Rock Polish Primal Groudon this phrasing is weird, it sounds like you switch to cm necrozma and pdon. also literally never never never ever will you switch a xerneas into a dusk mane or pdon, that's like asking for a death sentence than trying to stay in and set up Rocks or Toxic.
• Beware of giving away momentum when using Arceus. Sometimes an incoming support arceus forme can safely ignore damage from a single Judgement and then threaten Arceus-Rock out. In these situations, a move such as Stealth Rock which the opponent would have to then Defog allows you to switch out from Arceus-Rock much more safely, giving the opponent less of an opportunity to damage your switch-in.
• Note that many Mega Rayquaza carry a move that can deal with Arceus-Rock, such as Earthquake or Waterfall, which will make the decision of whether to switch to Arceus-Rock a 50/50. waterfall is extremely rare nowadays, something like scarf surf (85% chance to 2hko with rocks) and banded outrage are better examples However, it is generally safe to make this switch if the opponent does not know the forme of your Arceus. As such, avoid revealing the forme where possible, to make beating Rayquaza easier.

Team Options
========

• Arceus-Rock does a good job at beating a number of key pokemon, especially Mega Rayquaza. As such, it is a solid fit on bulky teams already weak to these threats, and it is often better to include Arceus-Rock with other pokemon rather than attempting to build a team around it. the way this is worded sounds like arceus-rock is good on stall/semistall, which it's not. specifically say balance/bulky offense
• This set works well on bulkier teams that appreciate threats being worn down - these teams also often appreciate a switch-in to Mega Rayquaza, which Arceus-Rock provides. same here, it's not fitting on HO but def not on stall, which have zygarde-c/lugia/steelceus etc. also rockceus is not very good at "wearing down threats", all it does it spam wisp
• Offensive pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock are those that appreciate common counters being worn down. For example, Xerneas appreciates Arceus-Rock wearing down pokemon such as Primal Groudon, while being able to threaten pokemon like Marshadow and Zygarde. arceus-rock doesn't really wear down pdon because it runs rest 90% of the time on spd sets and if it's not a spdef set it's not switching into rockceus regardless
• Similarly, Primal Groudon pairs well, as it appreciates an answer to Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and answers threats to Arceus-Rock including many Steel-types such as Ferrothorn. pdon can also run more offensive sets if arceus-rock is running sr. pdon also switches into pogre which absolutely destroys you
• There are a number of pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock due to dealing well with offensive threats to Arceus-Rock while appreciating the pokemon that Arceus-Rock threatens. These include Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, and Yveltal, all of which switch into a number of pokemon that threaten Arceus-Rock such as Primal Groudon and Necrozma Dusk-Mane, while Yveltal also threatens Marshadow.
• Similarly, Giratina is able to answer many of the pokemon Arceus-Rock dislikes, including many support Arceus formes.
• Trappers including Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are good partners for Arceus-Rock, as they are able to trap many of the common answers such as Support Arceus formes, and stallier Pokemon such as Chansey and Celesteela, allowing Arceus-Rock to do a better job of wearing down threats like Primal Groudon, and removing defoggers.
• Due to Arceus-Rock's dislike to toxic, partners that can absorb status such as Arceus-Poison, Steel-types, or pokemon with Rest such as Giratina or Zygarde-C can not only support Arcues-Rock but also appreciate coming in for free on the move.
• arceus-rock's best partner is celesteela is suspiciously missing, celesteela + arceus-rock counters pretty much every mega rayquaza set bc if you die to eq celesteela walls forever, + celesteela counters all support arceus and annoys everything that walls arceus-rock. the celesteela + arceus-rock meta is fading away but it's still notable to mention

this TO in general is a bit too expanded on, arceus-rock doesn't really fit well with some of these mons and in general rockceus is helping out other mons, not the other way around; more pokemon that appreciate a hooh/yveltal/ray switch-in and less mons that threaten pdon/marshadow/etc would be good because arceus-rock's a support mon, not an offensive pokemon that needs its checks removed.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Calm Mind / Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment makes use of a strong STAB Rock move, with relatively good neutral coverage on its own.
• Recover allows Arceus to recover HP throughout the game, allowing it to come in multiple times and set up more effectively.
• Calm Mind allows Arceus to function as an effective setup sweeper, allowing it to clean against weakened or unprepared teams with the help of coverage.
• Fire Blast hits most pokemon that Rock-type Judgment does not hit, such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn.
• Ice Beam is further coverage, hitting ground-types such as Arceus-Ground and Zygarde, as well as rarer Grass-types. dont mention grass-types, the only grass types are ferro (killed by blast) and grassceus (also killed by blast and you don't really want to stay in on it anyway) It also gives particularly good coverage alongside Fire Blast. also specifically mention that it lures zygarde p nicely
• Will-o-Wisp is an option that allows Arceus-Rock to function better as a setup sweeper, as it reduces opponents' attack stats while Calm Mind boosts its own Special Defense. It also gives Arceus-Rock the ability to cripple some switch-ins such as Marshadow. remove this, wisp on cm is pretty bad when you need coverage or refresh. refresh is much better
• Refresh is an option over coverage to prevent the Calm Mind set from being broken by pokemon carrying Toxic, and turns such pokemon to setup fodder.

Set Details
========

• Arceus still wants to function as a Mega Rayquaza check, and so high speed is required. This is also helps set up against special attackers, such as many support Arceus formes.
• EVs are invested into HP to help Arceus set up easily, as well as taking hits from pokemon that it checks before trying to set up.
• These HP EVs also assist it in checking Mega Rayquaza, for example allowing it to always live a Life Orb Earthquake.
• If Calm Mind is not carried, these EVs should be placed in Special Attack, to make Arceus-Rock as imposing as possible.
• If Calm Mind is run, a spread investing in SpA is also possible. However, it should be noted that such a set will be significantly easier to KO, for example 0 Atk Primal Groudon goes from a guaranteed 2HKO to an 81.3% chance to OHKO with Precipice Blades. remove the specific example, you should never be staying in on pdon anyway. but just say max/max spa/speed is a possibility
• A spread of 252 HP / 252 Def can be considered, as this allows Arceus to set up considerably more easily, for example using non-Dragon Tail Zygarde as setup fodder. However, common pokemon such as Marshadow are still able to defeat Arceus, while this prevents Arceus from successfully checking Mega Rayquaza. no, this is just not good. you need max speed, and even then, you need at the very least 16 speed evs for base 90s

Usage Tips
========

• Calm Mind Arceus-Rock works well as a late-game cleaner, when its checks have been weakened enough for it to set up and sweep the remaining pokemon.
• Offensive Arceus-Rock sets are relatively easy to check, thanks to the wide variety of viable pokemon naturally capable of this. As such, it often makes sense not to reveal Arceus-Rock's forme if possible, as this will make the opponent more willing for checks such as Necrozma Dusk Mane to be weakened.
• Alternatively, in many situations it instead makes more sense for Arceus-Rock to weaken checks to other pokemon on the team. This is often the case where the opponent has a large number of checks to Arceus-Rock, or Arceus-Rock is required to check an opposing threat such as Mega Rayquaza. It is also often true of non-Calm Mind variants.
• Be aware that the opponent will often predict a support set rather than the offensive set, and therefore may not expect coverage moves like Fire Blast or Ice Beam. expand this to say don't reveal the set too early because it can lure a lot of stuff and unexpectedly clean late-game

Team Options
========

• This set appreciates other threats on the team that are able to wear down potential checks. Examples include Xerneas, which can wear down common counters such as Primal Groudon and most Steel-types. xerneas wears down 1 steel type in offensive necrozma-dm, don't mention steels
• Pokemon that pair well defensively with Arceus-Rock make good teammates, including Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, Giratina formes, and Yveltal, all of which answer a number of threats to Arceus-Rock such as Steel-types, Primal Groudon, opposing Zygarde, and Marshadow to some degree. Other pokemon that can help against these threats include Celesteela, Primal Groudon, and Ho-Oh. It is worth choosing your coverage options based on which threats these teammates handle well, and what your team struggles with.
• Wallbreakers like Banded Mega Rayquaza are able to open holes in bulkier teams, giving Arceus-Rock more opportunities to damage the opposing team.
• Similarly, Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are able to open holes in teams' defensive cores, and remove pokemon such as Toxic Arceus formes, allowing Arceus-Rock to perform its job better.
• If your team brings a trapper, a ground-type such as Arceus-Ground will pair well, as it will remove threats to Arceus-Rock including Necrozma-DM and Primal Groudon, while also being able to come in as Tyranitar switches in on the trapper.
• Offensive Arceus-Rock appreciates both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as they help it pick up key KOs such as a 3/4 chance to 2HKO offensive Necrozma-DM with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. Arceus-Rock is able to assist Spikes teams in turn, by threatening Flying-type pokemon that are unharmed by Spikes. mention specific spikers. ferrothorn is good, it also switches into pogre which kills rockceus
• again, pokemon that like having a switch-in to flying types. think spdef pdon, ferrothorn, stuff

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• As with many Arceus formes, Defog is viable on Arceus-Rock's support set. However, the pokemon loses to most common Stealth Rock setters, and so is generally outclassed as a defogger.
• Refresh is an option on the support set to remove its weakness to Toxic. However, it still cannot threaten the support Arceus formes that are likely to Toxic it, and loses momentum in using this move. remove this, it's never worth it on non-cm sets
• Flamethrower is an option over Fire Blast on an offensive set, but the loss of power is very noticeable, for example missing out on a 2HKO against Celesteela after Stealth Rock.
• Support moves such as Thunder Wave or Magic Coat are occasionally worthwhile, but generally less useful than options like Toxic or Roar, as well as being more passive.
• A physically offensive set with EdgeQuake coverage seems plausible, but faces tough competition from pokemon like Arceus-Ground, while still failing to 2HKO defensive Primal Groudon with Earthquake after Stealth Rock. yeah definitely not, sd groundceus does the same thing but 10x better
• Calm Mind sets may consider running Roar in order to use other Calm Mind Arceus formes as settup fodder then force them out. However, this strategy is only effective against Calm Mind sets that do not run Toxic, and as such is of limited use compared to other Moveslot options. no calm mind set ever runs toxic, so remove that mention, but you can keep the cm + roar mention.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Bulky Primal Groudon sets easily counter Arceus-Rock, while offensive sets will come in on most Arceus-Rock as well. offensive sets don't wanna come in because they get pretty much 2hkoed by judgment, but it does revenge or set up rock polish or something on a free switch However, this can only be done a number of times before they are no longer able to check other big threats. Zygarde and physically offensive Arceus-Ground easily defeat non-Ice Beam Arceus-Rock, but dislike Will-o-Wisp unless running Rest or Refresh. Special support Arceus-Ground sets fail to KO +1 Arceus-Rock if it runs Calm Mind, and can dislike Toxic, but will otherwise Recover off Ice Beam and threaten to KO Arceus-Ground i think you mean arceus-rock here while Defogging Stealth Rock. more importantly, cm groundceus completely sets up on rockceus

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre counters Arceus-Rock, with only an extremely small chance of both failing to OHKO and being 2HKO'd by a Calm Mind-boosted variant. However, unless it runs Rest, it can only switch in a limited number of times.

**Support Arceus formes**: Support Arceus formes are, in general, able to take any punches Arceus-Rock can throw at them, Defog away its rocks, and wear it down with Toxic or super effective moves in return. Calm Mind Arceus-Rock may be able to set up on some variants, but most will be able to stop it with either Toxic or Phazing. Arceus-Rock variants carrying Toxic can threaten them back, but will still be worn down by them.

**Specially Defensive pokemon**: Arceus-Rock is completely walled by pokemon such as Blissey unless it has at least 5 Calm Mind boosts, by which time it will have been worn down by Toxic. unless it runs refresh. you can't really set up on blissey though because it has confide Mega Sableye is able to hard counter Arceus-Rock not running Calm Mind, unless it invests very significantly in Special Attack. Rarer Pokemon such as Clefable or Toxapex are similarly beat Arceus-Rock, with the exception of Toxic Arceus-Rock beating Clefable. Lugia dislikes status, but nonetheless will check most Arceus-Rock. not lugia, it gets 2hkoed.

**Gothitelle**: Gothitelle is able to trap Arceus-Rock, and defeat it with Confide followed by pp-stalling Judgment. This is extremely effective against support set unless it has Roar, and while offensive sets have more counterplay thanks to Calm Mind or Ice Beam Freezes, Gothitelle will still revenge kill it at +0 a majority of the time. Note that even with Roar, a good opponent can play around this thanks to Taunt. the whole point of roar is to catch them off guard once, and that's generally all you need

**Steel-types**: Necrozma Dusk-Mane and Arceus-Steel are both able to counter most Arceus-Rock, with physical sets disliking Will-o-Wisp but Calm Mind sets threatening to use it as setup fodder. Ferrothorn and Celesteela lose to Fire Blast, but otherwise counter Arceus-Rock. Other Steels such as Magearna are able to counter Arceus-Rock easily. However, many of these pokemon would prefer not to switch in on a Will-o-Wisp, due to the chip damage as well as reduced physical attack in the cases of physical sets. Dialga happily sets Stealth Rock on Arceus-Rock while threatening Flash Cannon. steel-types should definitely be higher, steelceus sets up for free and wisp doesn't hurt most of them. dialga is almost unviable, so i wouldnt mention it.

**Fighting-types**: Marshadow, as well as less common Fighting-types such as Mega Mewtwo X, all easily come in on Judgment and KO Arceus-Rock. However, they don't enjoy switching in on Will-o-Wisp. Mega Lucario similarly threatens non-Fire Blast sets. no mega lucario pls :{

have a bullet for status as well, paralysis means you can't do anything and toxic means you can't check stuff properly. also name common stuff that uses it, most notably hooh and ig scarf ray?

this is better than before and i could honestly say a lot more, but in general you go into too much detail on certain points but you miss some other important points. e.g. TO is probably too long for both sets, so think about what actually fits with rockceus instead of "paper" partners. im not the best rockceus expert but yeah. you can have 1/3

 

[DoW]

this is better than before and i could honestly say a lot more, but in general you go into too much detail on certain points but you miss some other important points. e.g. TO is probably too long for both sets, so think about what actually fits with rockceus instead of "paper" partners. im not the best rockceus expert but yeah. you can have 1/3

I'm writing this up now, I just had a few queries while I do so:

You mentioned a few times that SpD Pdon will run rest, therefore not caring about Judgment. The majority of defensive Pdon sets I'm used to don't often run this, and the 1760 stats for last month give 7.4% of Pdon running rest compared to 30% eq, 27% toxic, and 23% roar - I'm happy to change this if people should always be running rest on SpD sets and just aren't, but if so that's not something i had been aware of. (It may also be worth noting that 0 SpA rockceus 3hkos 252/252+ Pdon 99.8% of the time after one round of rocks, meaning even with rest it's not the most reliable of counters).

You also mention offensive pdon being 2hkod, which stops it countering rockceus. The sets I'm used to are the Ubers ones, which run enough SpD or HP to avoid the 2hko - should at Pdon be running less defences and therefore be unable to counter rockceus? If so, I'm happy to change these parts too.

 

[lotiasite]

about the rest pdon mentions, yeah i suppose its uncommon enough to keep those mentions, imo rest is almost mandatory on pdon but ladder/tours might be diff

offensive pdon has like a 98% chance iirc of being 2hkoed after rocks, but even without rocks it takes like a billion percent. if you have an offensive pdon you would never switch it into a rockceus because offensive pdon needs a lot of health to set up properly.

 

[DoW]

this is better than before and i could honestly say a lot more, but in general you go into too much detail on certain points but you miss some other important points. e.g. TO is probably too long for both sets, so think about what actually fits with rockceus instead of "paper" partners. im not the best rockceus expert but yeah. you can have 1/3

This is now pretty much implemented, the main things I haven't changed are in the first TO section.
Specifically I didn't add anything that appreciates answers to flying mons because flying weakness doesn't really seem relevant (the only mon weak to Flying that people care about is marshadow, which would die to dragon ascent anyway), and I honestly couldn't think of anything that doesn't appreciate Mray being answered. Let me know if you think there's something specific I should mention, though.
The other thing was that I'm not sure if I've cut the section down enough - let me know if I need to revisit this and remove a bit more from here.

Otherwise, I'll move this into QC 1/3.

 

[Chloe]

I'm assuming this is ready for next QC.

QC: / /
GP: /​

[OVERVIEW]

• Arceus-Rock's typing, supported by good stats, allows it to switch in on most Mega Rayquaza sets' Dragon Ascent and V-Create, including Scarf, Banded, and Dragon Dance sets not carrying Earthquake. This allows it to act as an offensive check to the pokemon.
• It can also counter a number of other threats, notably Flying-types including Yveltal and Ho-oh, thanks to its solid typing and good stats.
• Using only Judgment, its neutral coverage isn't awful, and so Arceus-Rock is able to limit the number of times many counters can switch into it.
• Its movepool gives it advantages over Tyranitar, the only other relevant Rock-type, including reliable recovery and status moves like Will-o-Wisp.
• Arceus-Rock's movepool also has a number of good offensive options, including Fire Blast and Ice Beam, as well as Calm Mind. However, as a Calm Mind user, it is often outclassed by other options such as Arceus-Fairy, Arceus-Ground, and Necrozma-Ultra.
• Arceus-Rock's typing gives it a number of weaknesses, meaning a large number of common Pokemon including bulky Primal Groudon sets and Marshadow counter it. id definitely prioritise dusk mane to bulky pdon
• It also isn't a perfect answer to the pokemon it counters, it doesn't counter mray so change this to pokemon it answers or whatnot as many Mega Rayquaza sets can win with Earthquake, while Ho-oh and Yveltal can put it on a timer with Toxic.
• Arceus-Rock faces competition from Tyranitar, which is able to answer Mega Rayquaza while also being the premier pursuit trapper in the tier. However, the pokemon lacks many things Arceus-Rock has, including access to Recover or Will-o-Wisp. remove everything after however, youve already mentioned its strengths above.
• Arceus-Rock also gives away momentum rather easily, as a large number of pokemon are able to come in easily on it if Arceus doesn't carry options to threaten them, and doesn't set rocks to force them to defog. Such pokemon include Zygarde-Complete, many opposing Arceus formes, and most Steel-types that don't fear Will-o-Wisp.

[SET]
name: Flying-type check
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Will-o-Wisp
move 4: Stealth Rock / Roar / Perish Song
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment allows Arceus-Rock to beat both Yveltal and Ho-oh, always OHKOing Ho-oh and taking down offensive Yveltal after Stealth Rock. It also 2HKOs Mega Rayquaza after Stealth Rock or a single Dragon Ascent special defense drop.
• Judgment also allows Arceus-Rock to deal damage to a number of pokemon as they switch in, including Primal Groudon and various support Arceus formes.
• Recover allows Arceus to remain at high health throughout the game, keeping it able to check those pokemon it needs to check.
• Will-o-Wisp allows Arceus to beat Mega Rayquaza more consistently, as well as crippling a number of pokemon that would otherwise happily switch into it such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Zygarde, and Marshadow.
• Stealth Rock allows Arceus to take advantage of the switches it often causes, either helping against the pokemon it needs to check, or allowing a free switch as the opponent removes them again. However, note that many teams use support Arceus formes carrying Toxic as their defoggers, and these will beat Arceus-Rock.
• Toxic can be run instead of Will-o-Wisp to hit switch-ins such as Primal Groudon and support Arceus formes with on the switch-in. move this either after wow point or after roar/psong point.
• Arceus-Rock can also use Roar or Perish Song in the final slot. Both do similar jobs in phazing opposing pokemon, and allowing Arceus-Rock to stop Vivillon, but Roar helps against Gothitelle whereas Perish Song can be more useful as the opponent switches to a setup sweeper, and is more helpful against Perish Song. psongs main function is to beat bp but this isnt mentioned, id also stress that roar only beats goth if it isn't expected, otherwise it can prevent this fairly easily.

Set Details
========

• Max Speed investment is used because Arceus-Rock needs to outspeed Mega Rayquaza, and appreciates speed tying other Arceus.
• Max HP investment is used to help Arceus-Rock take hits from various threats, and keep checking pokemon throughout the game.
• The combination of Stone Plate and Multitype gives Arceus its Rock typing, and gives Judgment its typing and a slight boost in power.
• An alternative EV spread of 148 HP / 144 SpA / 216 Spe is possible to run. This gives Arceus-Rock more speed than Jolly Mega Rayquaza and enough Special Attack to defeat Mega Sableye, with the remainder invested in HP. However, the loss of bulk is extremely noticable, for example giving Scarf Yveltal a 1 in 3 chance of 2HKOing after Stealth Rock, and Life Orb Rayquaza a 16% chance to 2HKO with burned Earthquake after Stealth Rock and healthy Dragon Ascent damage. this much specificity is bad, can we change it to like "However, the loss of bulk is extremely noticeable, ensuring Arceus-Rock less reliably switches into Dark Pulse from Yveltal and Mega Rayquaza's Earthquake."
• Some of the HP EVs can be shifted to Defense instead, giving Arceus-Rock a greater physical bulk. However, this comes at a price of greater lost Special bulk, meaning this is generally not a good idea. this doesnt explain why it would need the special bulk, change it to like "However, this means it can no longer check Yveltal with confidence" or something like that.

Usage Tips
========

• Because of the number of pokemon that can force Arceus-Rock out, and the danger posed by the pokemon it checks, it is worth keeping healthy with Recover rather than taking risks early-game.
• Make sure to switch Arceus-Rock in to flying-types liberally, as that's what the pokemon is there for. For example, losing Arceus-Rock in exchange for the opponent's Mega Rayquaza should always be considered a good exchange. The only exception to this would be scouting for Toxic on an opposing Ho-oh or Yveltal.
• Through Judgment and Will-o-Wisp, Arceus-Rock does well against a number of these pokemon if it simply continues letting them switch in on it throughout the game. As such, don't feel the need to double switch to a counter for every pokemon you predict will come in against it, especially when it might be possible to burn a pokemon like Necrozma-DM, Zygarde or Marshadow.
• Be cautious of opposing Toxic users such as support Arceus formes or Necrozma Dusk Mane, as this status can make it much more difficult for Arceus to wear down counters.
• Don't let Arceus-Rock become setup fodder - however predictable, it's generally a much better option to switch to a counter against pokemon such as Xerneas, Calm Mind Necrozma, or Rock Polish Primal Groudon than trying to stay in and set up Rocks or Toxic.
• Beware of giving away momentum when using Arceus. Sometimes an incoming support arceus forme can safely ignore damage from a single Judgement and then threaten Arceus-Rock out. In these situations, a move such as Stealth Rock which the opponent would have to then Defog allows you to switch out from Arceus-Rock much more safely, giving the opponent less of an opportunity to damage your switch-in.
• Note that many Mega Rayquaza carry a move that can deal with Arceus-Rock, such as Earthquake, Surf, or Choice Banded Outrage, which will make the decision of whether to switch to Arceus-Rock a 50/50. However, it is generally safe to make this switch if the opponent does not know the forme of your Arceus. As such, avoid revealing the forme where possible, to make beating Rayquaza easier.

Team Options
========

• Arceus-Rock does a good job at beating a number of key pokemon, especially Mega Rayquaza. As such, it is a solid fit on balanced and bulky offense teams already weak to these threats, and it is often better to include Arceus-Rock with other pokemon rather than attempting to build a team around it.
• This set works well on balanced teams that appreciate threats being worn down - these teams also often appreciate a switch-in to Mega Rayquaza, which Arceus-Rock provides.
• Offensive pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock are those that appreciate common counters being worn down. For example, Xerneas appreciates Arceus-Rock wearing down pokemon such as Primal Groudon, while being able to threaten pokemon like Marshadow and Zygarde. don't include this, if ur justification is wearing down pdon its not good
• Similarly, Primal Groudon pairs well, as it appreciates an answer to Ho-Oh and Yveltal, and answers threats to Arceus-Rock like Primal Kyogre and Steel-types such as Ferrothorn. Running Stealth Rock on Arceus also allows for Primal Groudon to run a more offensive set.
• There are a number of pokemon that pair well with Arceus-Rock due to dealing well with offensive threats to Arceus-Rock while appreciating the pokemon that Arceus-Rock threatens. These include Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, and Yveltal, all of which switch into a number of pokemon that threaten Arceus-Rock such as Primal Groudon and Necrozma Dusk-Mane, while Yveltal also threatens Marshadow. Similarly, Giratina is able to answer many of the pokemon Arceus-Rock dislikes. remove gira please
• Celesteela is an excellent teammate for Arceus-Rock, largely because with accurate prediction, the combination of these two pokemon is able to always defeat Mega Rayquaza. Celesteela is also able to answer support Arceus that come in on Arceus-Rock, which also appreciates the slight HP boosts from Leech seed. Moreover, Arceus-Rock handles Ho-oh and Yveltal, both of which can be troublesome for Celesteela. while celesteela can answer arc-ground.
• skarm is arguably better at this role however you can just include this as a separate mention here and mention the advantages at the cost of special bulk.
• Trappers including Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are good partners for Arceus-Rock, as they are able to trap many of the common answers such as Support Arceus formes, and stallier Pokemon such as Chansey and Celesteela, allowing Arceus-Rock to do a better job of wearing down threats like Primal Groudon, and removing defoggers.
• Due to Arceus-Rock's dislike to toxic, partners that can absorb status such as Arceus-Poison, Steel-types, or pokemon with Rest such as Giratina or Zygarde-C can not only support Arcues-Rock but also appreciate coming in for free on the move. don't mention gira.
• mention arc-fairy due to its ability to check marsh and zyg however note that compiling dusk mane weaknesses isn't optimal.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Judgment
move 2: Recover
move 3: Calm Mind / Ice Beam
move 4: Fire Blast / Ice Beam
item: Stone Plate
ability: Multitype
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe

can you please slash ib with recover also or ill throw a tantrum, this is my favourite set in the meta imma be pedantic.

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Judgment makes use of a strong STAB Rock move, with relatively good neutral coverage on its own.
• Recover allows Arceus to recover HP throughout the game, allowing it to come in multiple times and set up more effectively.
• Calm Mind allows Arceus to function as an effective setup sweeper, allowing it to clean against weakened or unprepared teams with the help of coverage.
• Fire Blast hits most pokemon that Rock-type Judgment does not hit, such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn.
• Ice Beam is further coverage, hitting ground-types such as Arceus-Ground and Zygarde, and allows Arceus to lure in and KO Zygarde. It also gives particularly good coverage alongside Fire Blast.
• Refresh is an option over coverage to prevent the Calm Mind set from being broken by pokemon carrying Toxic, and turns such pokemon to setup fodder. put this in oo and mention flamethrower here.

Set Details
========

• Arceus still wants to function as a Mega Rayquaza check, and so high speed is required. This is also helps set up against special attackers, such as many support Arceus formes.
• EVs are invested into HP to help Arceus set up easily, as well as taking hits from pokemon that it checks before trying to set up.
• These HP EVs also assist it in checking Mega Rayquaza, for example allowing it to always live a Life Orb Earthquake.
• If Calm Mind is not carried, these EVs should be placed in Special Attack, to make Arceus-Rock as imposing as possible.
• If Calm Mind is run, a spread investing in SpA is also possible. However, it should be noted that such a set will be significantly easier to KO.
• the last two points annoy me, just state that it can run max spa if it prefers higher damage output but it leaves it more susceptible to powerful attacks like mrays eq

Usage Tips
========

• Calm Mind Arceus-Rock works well as a late-game cleaner, when its checks have been weakened enough for it to set up and sweep the remaining pokemon.
• Offensive Arceus-Rock sets are relatively easy to check, thanks to the wide variety of viable pokemon naturally capable of this. As such, it often makes sense not to reveal Arceus-Rock's forme if possible, as this will make the opponent more willing for checks such as Necrozma Dusk Mane to be weakened. i hate this point, change it to weaken or remove dusk mane / chansey / blissey / marshadow prior to setting up
• Alternatively, in many situations it instead makes more sense for Arceus-Rock to weaken checks to other pokemon on the team. This is often the case where the opponent has a large number of checks to Arceus-Rock, or Arceus-Rock is required to check an opposing threat such as Mega Rayquaza. It is also often true of non-Calm Mind variants.
• Be aware that the opponent will often predict a support set rather than the offensive set, and therefore may not expect coverage moves like Fire Blast or Ice Beam. Be sure not to reveal these coverage moves when there is still a possibility they could be used to lure a key threat, such as Ice Beam for Zygarde.

Team Options
========

• This set appreciates other threats on the team that are able to wear down potential checks. Examples include Xerneas, which can wear down common counters such as Primal Groudon. the thing here is that not only does max spa 2hko pdon ur using xern as an example where its not optimal at all uwu, honestly just change this to use mgar to weaken dusk mane pdon prior to sweep or whatever
• Pokemon that pair well defensively with Arceus-Rock make good teammates, including Arceus-Ground, Zygarde, Giratina formes, and Yveltal, all of which answer a number of threats to Arceus-Rock such as Steel-types, Primal Groudon, opposing Zygarde, and Marshadow to some degree. Other pokemon that can help against these threats include Celesteela, Primal Groudon, and Ho-Oh. It is worth choosing your coverage options based on which threats these teammates handle well, and what your team struggles with. remove gira, ho-oh isnt seeing use on the types of teams ur running cm rock on too so remove that as well
• Wallbreakers like Banded Mega Rayquaza are able to open holes in bulkier teams, giving Arceus-Rock more opportunities to damage the opposing team.
• Similarly, Gothitelle and Mega Gengar are able to open holes in teams' defensive cores, and remove pokemon such as Toxic Arceus formes, allowing Arceus-Rock to perform its job better. incorporate this into the first point
• If your team brings a trapper, a ground-type such as Arceus-Ground will pair well, as it will remove threats to Arceus-Rock including Necrozma-DM and Primal Groudon, while also being able to come in as Tyranitar switches in on the trapper. remove this point
• Offensive Arceus-Rock appreciates both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, as they help it pick up key KOs such as a 3/4 chance to 2HKO offensive Necrozma-DM with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. Arceus-Rock is able to assist Spikes teams in turn, by threatening Flying-type pokemon that are unharmed by Spikes. A good teammate that can provide Spikes support is Ferrothorn, which is able to switch in against Primal Kyogre. less specificity again, no need to say "pick up key KOs such as a 3/4 chance to 2HKO offensive Necrozma-DM with Fire Blast after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes." when u can just say "Hazard support such as Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic Spikes help Arceus-Rock beat Pokemon such as opposing Calm Mind Arceus formes more reliably" or something

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

• As with many Arceus formes, Defog is viable on Arceus-Rock's support set. However, the pokemon loses to most common Stealth Rock setters, and so is generally outclassed as a defogger.
• Flamethrower is an option over Fire Blast on an offensive set, but the loss of power is very noticeable, for example missing out on a 2HKO against Celesteela after Stealth Rock. replace this with refresh as mentioned above
• Support moves such as Thunder Wave or Magic Coat are occasionally worthwhile, but generally less useful than options like Toxic or Roar, as well as being more passive.
• Calm Mind sets may consider running Roar in order to use other Calm Mind Arceus formes as settup fodder then force them out. However, this strategy is of limited use compared to other Moveslot options.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Bulky Primal Groudon sets easily counter Arceus-Rock, while offensive sets are able to check the pokemon. Note that Bulky sets are only able to switch in on Arceus' Judgment a limited number of times before they are no longer able to check other big threats. Zygarde and physically offensive Arceus-Ground easily defeat non-Ice Beam Arceus-Rock, but dislike Will-o-Wisp unless running Rest or Refresh. Calm Mind Arceus-Ground similarly threatens Arceus-Rock to a large degree. Special support Arceus-Ground sets fail to KO +1 Arceus-Rock if it runs Calm Mind, and can dislike Toxic, but will otherwise Recover off Ice Beam and threaten to KO Arceus-Rock while Defogging Stealth Rock.

**Steel-types**: Necrozma Dusk-Mane and Arceus-Steel are both able to counter most Arceus-Rock, with physical sets disliking Will-o-Wisp but Calm Mind sets threatening to use it as setup fodder. Ferrothorn and Celesteela lose to Fire Blast, but otherwise counter Arceus-Rock. Other Steels such as Magearna are able to counter Arceus-Rock easily. However, many of these pokemon would prefer not to switch in on a Will-o-Wisp, due to the chip damage as well as reduced physical attack in the cases of physical sets. Dialga happily sets Stealth Rock on Arceus-Rock while threatening Flash Cannon.

**Primal Kyogre**: Primal Kyogre counters Arceus-Rock, with only an extremely small chance of both failing to OHKO and being 2HKO'd by a Calm Mind-boosted variant. However, unless it runs Rest, it can only switch in a limited number of times.

**Support Arceus formes**: Support Arceus formes are, in general, able to take any punches Arceus-Rock can throw at them, Defog away its rocks, and wear it down with Toxic or super effective moves in return. Calm Mind Arceus-Rock may be able to set up on some variants, but most will be able to stop it with either Toxic or Phazing. Arceus-Rock variants carrying Toxic can threaten them back, but will still be worn down by them.

**Specially Defensive pokemon**: Arceus-Rock is completely walled by pokemon such as Blissey and Chansey. Mega Sableye is able to hard counter Arceus-Rock not running Calm Mind, unless it invests very significantly in Special Attack. Rarer Pokemon such as Clefable or Toxapex are similarly beat Arceus-Rock, with the exception of Toxic Arceus-Rock beating Clefable.

**Gothitelle**: Gothitelle is able to trap Arceus-Rock, and defeat it with Confide followed by pp-stalling Judgment. This is extremely effective against support set unless it has Roar, and while offensive sets have more counterplay thanks to Calm Mind or Ice Beam Freezes, Gothitelle will still revenge kill it at +0 a majority of the time.

**Status conditions**: Arceus-Rock struggles to check pokemon like Mega Rayquaza unless it is on very high HP. As such, Toxic is able to prevent it from doing its job very effectively, at worst forcing the pokemon to recover when it would rather be threatening switch-ins with Judgment of Will-o-Wisp. Similarly, Paralysis is able to prevent Arceus-Rock from using Recover when its health is too low to counter threats, or from using moves like Will-o-Wisp or Judgment against such threats. Pokemon that are able to threaten Arceus with status include some Mega Rayquaza variants, notably scarf sets that run toxic, as well as Ho-Oh that run Toxic or occasionally THunder Wave. Similarly, Toxic Spikes users such as Toxapex are able to threaten Arceus-Rock. honestly the only one worth mentioning here is Toxic, and you're way too specific.

**Fighting-types**: Marshadow, as well as less common Fighting-types such as Mega Mewtwo X, all easily come in on Judgment and KO Arceus-Rock. However, they don't enjoy switching in on Will-o-Wisp.

add credits section please

2/3 please fix Will-O-Wisp capitalisation it gave me a migraine

 

[Funbot28]

DoW please implement the above check a.s.a.p

 

[Ginger Princess]

DoW please implement the QC check or I will have to lock it in a week. Gen 8s coming up, we're kinda in crunch time uwu

 

[DoW]

DoW please implement the QC check or I will have to lock it in a week. Gen 8s coming up, we're kinda in crunch time uwu

Please lock it, sorry I wasn't able to get to this - I just don't have time to do this nowadays.

 

[Ginger Princess]

Please lock it, sorry I wasn't able to get to this - I just don't have time to do this nowadays.

aight. Before I lock it do you mind if we look for other authors to transfer this to to implement the check/finish the analysis?

edit: you'd still be credited

 

[DoW]

aight. Before I lock it do you mind if we look for other authors to transfer this to to implement the check/finish the analysis?

edit: you'd still be credited

Go for it, I'd be very happy for this to somehow still get completed.

 

[bigtalk]

aight. Before I lock it do you mind if we look for other authors to transfer this to to implement the check/finish the analysis?

edit: you'd still be credited

I'd be willing to finish this.

 

[Ginger Princess]

I'd be willing to finish this.

this is probably going to be redone entirely bc it is outdated