Implemented Articuno in RBY UU [Articuno Banned]

Sabelette

from the river to the sea
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Metagame Resource Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus

Hello gamers, the RBY UU community recently had a survey to identify a course of action for the tier and while 5 different Pokemon in that survey are probably worth examining, Articuno by far had the most support for tiering action, rating a 3.72/5 among all respondents and a staggering 4.15 among qualified respondents (those who have made reqs for UU suspects in the past). Both of these numbers blow other controversial Pokemon out of the water, making it clear that the path to reducing the prevalence of RNG in the tier begins with a test on Articuno. Survey respondents noted that the tier is saturated with too many offensive threats to reasonably contain, leaving far too many teams vulnerable to some threat that can remove as many as 3 or 4 Pokemon by itself.

Articuno has a number of qualities that make it difficult to contain. It has the strongest special attack in the game in Blizzard, which OHKOes or 2HKOes most of the tier barring Water- and Ice-types. It has Agility, arguably the best setup move in RBY, which allows it to blow past Pokemon that might otherwise cause issues for it. It has an excellent BST; its only real weaknesses are Rock- and STAB Electric-type moves, as its huge Special makes non-STAB Electric attacks only somewhat effective. Notably, Articuno OHKOes Dugtrio, Dodrio, Golem, Tangela, and Dragonite, granting it many opportunities to force out and set up on otherwise dangerous targets. Its Double-Edge and Hyper Beam, while not particularly strong, do give it decent odds to break past Tentacruel, Dewgong, and Vaporeon, which otherwise can check its Blizzard (barring a freeze). Most Articuno checks are also relatively passive; Tentacruel struggles to break past Kadabra, Dewgong has problems against other Water-types, and Vaporeon and Omastar deal very little damage compared to the offensive powerhouses in the tier. As a result, teams struggle to check both Articuno and its typical partners, such as Dugtrio, at the same time without becoming too passive to function.

It can also be said that Articuno adds a significant element of RNG to the tier: Blizzard freezes, Blizzard misses, a solid critical hit rate, and its propensity to bait Rock Slide, which can miss entirely or OHKO it on a critical hit, all contribute to variance in the tier. Games are often decided by a Kangaskhan or Dugtrio Rock Slide critical hit or miss, making the difference between removing a major threat or losing 3 Pokemon to it. Blizzard freezes can remove all of its typical checks bar Dewgong, and Articuno often can break past Dewgong with a well-timed Double-Edge critical hit.

Articuno does, of course, have weaknesses, including its aforementioned Rock Slide problem, a vulnerability to being worn down by Tentacruel's Wrap, and difficulties with consistency if it takes paralysis from Thunder Wave and Body Slam users. Pokemon like Clefable, Kadabra, and Electrode can use Thunder Wave and wear Articuno down, and once it takes paralysis Pokemon like Tentacruel and Vaporeon can use setup moves to reapply the Speed drop from paralysis to keep Articuno under control. It also has difficulty setting up without taking significant damage, which it has to do thanks to its middling Speed. Articuno's typing and need to set up make it difficult to switch in, often relegating it to revenge killing. Proponents of Articuno also note that it punishes greedy offensive teams, as it can blast through Dugtrio, Dodrio, Kangaskhan, and Persian once it gets a turn to set up.

As a result, I'm opening this thread to clarify the matter. I wanted to get the thread started and then leave time for arguments to be made and for the UU Council to draw up voting reqs. I intend to move forward on July 23, so take the next few days to discuss here and gather your thoughts.
 
I haven't really felt that Articuno is banworthy personally, I think it's definitely one of the strongest threats in the tier but it's something that's manageable because of all the bulky waters this tier has. Tenta is incredible as normal, but Dewgong, Omastar, and even things like Vaporeon are all viable. You can also just damage trade a lot of the time with things like buzz or kad if you keep them healthy which can usually lead to a good enough gameplan for beating it. Objectively from the stats of the survey I think some action is in order because people are dissatisfied with the metagame (despite the survey being quite small), but my preferred action which I think would be a lot better is a lapras retest.

I voted no ban on lapras but ban on hypno when that meta shift happened, I think hypno was definitely one of the things making the meta bad but I really liked what lapras added. Despite being near mandatory due to its strength lapras provided so much for the tier, its bulk made it a good pivot into almost anything defensively which the tier is kinda lacking now. I think that there's still pretty solid defensive mons like dnite oma tang gyara kanga etc, but lapras covers both sides very well defensively with a good typing and is great against articuno with its typing and coverage. It might be a little borderline in strength by itself but I think what it offers is good for the tier and it keeps a lot of things in check. I'm already leaning that articuno is fine, and I think with an addition like this it only gets easier to handle while the offense of the tier also gains a reilable pivot, which was a complaint in the survey as well.

idk if I get voting reqs from uufpl but if I do I'd vote no ban on articuno and probably no ban on anything else aside from wrap, but I would like to see lapras back or at least some consideration for it since I think it can address the articuno issue as well as others presented in the survey.
 
I haven't really felt that Articuno is banworthy personally, I think it's definitely one of the strongest threats in the tier but it's something that's manageable because of all the bulky waters this tier has. Tenta is incredible as normal, but Dewgong, Omastar, and even things like Vaporeon are all viable.

Vaporeon has shown to have more utility than Omastar repeatedly throughout recent tours, but I also think this is too one-dimensional of a look at what Articuno does. It's not just checking cuno, it's cramming in checks for it, Dugtrio, Tentacruel, Dodrio... all defensive mons are stretched too thin, and all of the checks to Articuno fail way too frequently. It gets one freeze and it wins the game off of it, it gets one well-timed crit and the same happens.

I wish people would get over Lapras, that meta had a ton of issues because Lapras single handedly decided the game. It's a "defensive option" but if your Lapras pivots into something and takes 60% while removing it you just lose the game immediately because their fully healthy Lapras didn't take 30% switching into an attack and gets a bunch of 2HKOs. Even switching Lapras into Lapras was terrible because Blizzard + 3 Tbolts KOes it, so taking even the weakest attack on switch-in leaves you vulnerable to bad luck costing you a full Lapras while theirs can still take a hit. There were things I liked about both Lapras and Hypno but I think trying to go the opposite way and unban stuff is just going to lead to years of going back and forth without improving the metagame at all.
 
i definitely feel like there is major issues defensively checking all of dug, cuno, kang, etc, and cuno is the biggest contributor to this because all the cuno checks share similar weaknesses due to being water type and most are also slow, cuno isnt necessarily broken per se but it strains the builder and even if you can cover everything some threats may very easily hax you

about the aftermath, i could maybe see pers + kang going crazy but dodo is probably manageable because no cuno = less waters = less mons that ohko golem = golem stocks up, cuno is kinda just a poor check to normals tho cuz kang slide goobs it on crit etc interested to see how the meta evolves with it gone
 
To me, Articuno may not be the most problematic Pokemon in this tier; as a Pokemon in its own right, I see very little issue in how it functions. However, I still do see it as a major issue thanks to what it does to the tier. The pressure it puts onto the teambuilder is staggering, Pokemon that can switch into and check Dugtrio, such as Dodrio, Gyarados, Dragonite, and Tangela all are horrifically weak to Articuno; and while yes, most of Articuno's checks (mainly Dewgong,) do not do horribly into Dugtrio, they are slow, and get Wrapped down by Tentacruel. Tentacruel is a fast Articuno check, however, it is incredibly Dugtrio weak and absorbing any attack from Articuno will put it into Earthquake range from Dugtrio. These Water-types that check Articuno also get dominated by Electric-types, who further contribute to Dugtrio's stranglehold on the tier. Nearly all of these issues stem from the pressure Articuno puts onto the teambuilder.
 
As others have corroborated here, UU is in a pretty bad state right now due to the sheer number and power of its various offensive threats and how limited defensive counterplay is to them. I would say these Pokemon are Tentacruel, Kadabra, Dugtrio, Dodrio, Kangaskhan, and Articuno. Each of them do have some defensive answers, but these answers each have flaws and are often spread too thin dealing with all the other offensive powerhouses here. Out of these, I would say Articuno is the one that needs to be banned the most.

I'd say Articuno's biggest issue, in my opinion, is that its a tank that's also a sweeper. It is extremely bulky, with even Golem's STAB 4x super effective Rock Slide failing to OHKO over 50% of the time. Combine that with the strongest Special Attack in the game and Agility, and you have a Pokemon that's exceptionally hard to dislodge which also streamrolls through basically every foe that doesn't resist Ice. None of the other crazy offensive threats have this issue. Tentacruel is the closest, with it hitting very hard, being very specially bulky, and being quite fast, but an inability to boost its Speed, mediocre physical bulk, and the prevalence of faster revenge killers hold it back from being as overpowered, even if it's generally considered the "better" Pokemon. Otherwise, Kadabra and Dugtrio are extremely frail, Dodrio is also hardly a tank, and Kangaskhan can't boost its Speed. Only Articuno can do both roles in one go.

Then, as Sabelette pointed out, there's the issue of RNG. Besides Dewgong and itself, any so-called check can be essentially KOed by Blizzard. Rock Slide can miss. Articuno has a very workable crit rate. But then again, Rock Slide, especially Dugtrio's, can crit. While Articuno is absurdly bulky, it generally needs as much HP as it can get, so a single crit can decide games. RBY UU games have been criticized for being very swingy, and besides Dugtrio, I'd argue Articuno has the biggest RNG element, but at least Dugtrio is very frail and doesn't hit that hard without crits. While Articuno is somewhat held back by RNG, the fact that it can go both ways so often makes the tier less competitive.

Then we have the Articuno "answers", which mostly consist of the tier's Water-types, though all but Dewgong have to deal with a 9% OHKO chance with Blizzard. Besides that, Tentacruel, while an exceptional Pokemon, has to dedicate itself in doing so many other roles that losing HP to Articuno often prevents it from doing them. Notably, basically any chip puts it into Dugtrio KO range, making that threat significantly more threatening. Articuno isn't obligated to fight full-HP Tentacruel either, with it having goods odds of winning against a weakened Tentacruel, especially when factoring in Double-Edge and Hyper Beam crits.

Meanwhile, UU's other Water-types aren't that great. Vaporeon can be very passive, and Omastar is very niche. Dewgong does generally stop Articuno, but its very hard to justify any of these Pokemon, besides Tentacruel, when they're easy prey for all the other powerful offensive threats.

There are some merits to Articuno, being that it holds back some offensive threats and punishes players spamming staples. But checking things in such an RNG-filled manner is not good for UU, and punishing greedy teams doesn't matter when players have to spam samey teams because the tier is so fast. In fact, an Articuno ban will likely massively boost the health of UU. Numerous "good" Pokemon such as Gyarados and Dragonite are good Dugtrio checks but are held back by their extreme Articuno weakness. Other more niche picks such as Tangela and Aerodactyl are also strong Dugtrio checks but are held back for the same reason.

Will UU be perfect after Articuno is gone? Probably not. But it is clear that something needs to be done, and Articuno is among the most overpowered and RNG affected threats around, which is why I will vote BAN and implore other players to do so.
 
Last edited:
We will be going ahead with a suspect with the following reqs:
2 wins in RBY UU in any of ALTPL II, UUSD IV, RBYPL IV, UUFPL IV
Semifinals of RBY UU Open III or RBY UU Circuit Tournament II
Finals of the last RBY UU Spotlight

UUBD is not relevant as all starters already have reqs for the vote.

Stay tuned!

 
Last edited:
For everyone still not on board with voting ban on Articuno, this is an opportunity to confirm whether articuno is truly a healthy metagame presence and the bird can be unbanned at a later date if the meta turns out to become worse without it. We can argue endlessly on discord and forums about it but that's all theoretical until it's tested in actual tour games with stakes behind it.
 
Back
Top