SM OU Ash-greninja based offensive team - any improvements?

Hey guys, I've been battling around with this offense-based team for a while and it's helped me gain quite a few wins. However, I feel like it's still not the best and in need of improvement. So, here it is:

greninja-ash.gif

Greninja-Ash @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Ice Beam
- Surf

So this is the star of the team - over time, Greninja has become one of my favorite pokemon for competitive battling, and it's my go-to water type. I usually switch it in around mid-game, when the opponent's pokemon are mostly worn down, so I can get a quick KO and get it to turn into ash-greninja. I gave it dark pulse and surf for STAB, water shuriken for STAB and priority, and ice beam for any grass type switch-ins. With this movepool, greninja has swept a huge amount of opponents. Life orb is for extra power, though since greninja is already quite fragile, I'm thinking about changing it to another item - I'd rather not choice items, though, since I prefer flexibility over power.


machamp.gif

Machamp @ Fist Plate
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Dynamic Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Payback

Machamp is usually what I start out with, and has been pretty great. No guard makes this mon an absolute beast with dynamic punch (100% confusion rate and to take care of chansey/blissey) and stone edge (for flying type switch-ins). For opponents faster than machamp, I'll go with either bullet punch (priority) or payback (100 base power if machamp moves after target). I feel it usually does quite well against set-ups, and it can often take many opponents down with it. However, it does have a bit of a problem with Landorus-T, which is fairly common.


serperior.gif

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Serperior + contrary + leaf storm can be extremely annoying, and there's really not much to say - this set can make it a really effective sweeper, and leech seed + protect is just to help it regain more HP and last longer. I try to switch it in during mid-game, when the opponents it's weak to have been picked off. Serperior can be a real pain to overcome, and it's been a pretty great addition to this team. The only problem is that grass has quite a few weaknesses, so I often have to resort to using dragon pulse or switching out, which can be pretty frustrating if it's already got a huge special attack boost that I would be losing if I switch pokemon.

talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 90 Def / 106 SpD / 60 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
- Swords Dance

Talonflame is mostly for the early game - I usually end up letting it go down anyway, but it can usually take 2-3 mons down with it. Swords dance is for extra power, sharp beak to boost its brave bird (STAB) which can get extremely annoying to opponents, flare blitz again for STAB, and roost just to make it last longer. The only con of talonflame is its huge weakness to stealth rocks, but it's worth it once it starts 1 hit KOing many opponents. It's also overall a great fire-flying type, and pairs pretty well with manectric (who is good against two of its three weaknesses). Rock types also aren't that big a problem, since I've got greninja and serperior to take care of them. Talonflame also backs greninja, since its brave bird is supereffective against fighting types.

manectric-mega.gif

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 20 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA / 36 SpD / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Signal Beam

I know mega manectric isn't very common, but I find it pretty useful, especially since I needed a strong electric type on my team and something that can resist flying types. The purpose of volt switch is pretty obvious, and manectric can usually go first with its amazing speed. Thunderbolt is once again pretty obvious (STAB), flamethrower is for scizor or ferrothorn that talonflame didn't take down yet, and signal beam for tapu lele, alakazam, etc. When played right, this can be a real beast and get rid of some common major threats. It also backs greninja very well, since flamethrower is supereffective against bug and grass, while it resists electric, and greninja is vulnerable to all three of those types.


gengar.gif

Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Destiny Bond
- Clear Smog

And finally, we have gengar. Like talonflame, I usually use it in the early game and let it get taken down, but the real secret weapon here is destiny bond. Along with its great speed, gengar can usually get a destiny bond in when the opponent is least expecting it, and take down any major threats that the rest of my team is having trouble against. Clear smog is for the set-ups who keep using stat changes, and substitute can prevent it from status while wearing it down so it can sneak a destiny bond in. It's also a great counter to my team's (and greninja's) fairy weakness, which can be really helpful. Overall, gengar has been a major help, especially in taking down sweepers that the rest of my team is struggling with.

So, there's my team. While it has been pretty useful, it can be quite weak to stall (like chansey or blissey, if machamp is taken down). It's also got a bit of a landorus-T weakness, which I try to counter with greninja, though it can be quite difficult to beat with its U-turn (which is super-effective on greninja). It'll be great if anyone help me improve this team and give suggestions on how to overcome any other major threats, thanks!
 
Last edited:

Gross Sweep

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Hey man welcome to smogon, I can see you registered your account pretty recently. I like how much thought you've put into this team, however, this is a case of using sub optimal sets (gengar for example) and mon choices (Machamp for example) that just really diminish the team. I'm not going to do a full rate as it would be me replacing a lot of the team, changing more than I'm comfortable with. Instead I'm going to provide you with some resources that will hopefully help you build better in the future.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-ou-ultra-viability-ranking-thread.3621329/ This is the Viability Rankings for the OU tier. It will give you an idea of what mons are good in the tier. A little hint would be making sure your team can handle most of the mons on the list. Also if you don't see a mon on the list, it's probably not worth using - an example of this would be Machamp.

https://www.smogon.com/dex/ this is the strategy dex. When you decide on a mon, I strongly suggest looking at this resource. It will give you optimal set options, and even has a section on great teammates for a given mon that will help in the building process.

Once again I apologize this isn't much of a rate. I feel taking a step back to look at these resources, then trying to build again is the right move for you in this scenario. While you're still learning you can also use sample teams to learn how good teams are constructed https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usm-ou-sample-teams.3626219/ then once you feel you have a better grasp on top tier threats in the meta you can try building again. Feel free to let me know if you have any more questions or concerns, and I'll do my best to help.
 
Hey man welcome to smogon, I can see you registered your account pretty recently. I like how much thought you've put into this team, however, this is a case of using sub optimal sets (gengar for example) and mon choices (Machamp for example) that just really diminish the team. I'm not going to do a full rate as it would be me replacing a lot of the team, changing more than I'm comfortable with. Instead I'm going to provide you with some resources that will hopefully help you build better in the future.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usum-ou-ultra-viability-ranking-thread.3621329/ This is the Viability Rankings for the OU tier. It will give you an idea of what mons are good in the tier. A little hint would be making sure your team can handle most of the mons on the list. Also if you don't see a mon on the list, it's probably not worth using - an example of this would be Machamp.

https://www.smogon.com/dex/ this is the strategy dex. When you decide on a mon, I strongly suggest looking at this resource. It will give you optimal set options, and even has a section on great teammates for a given mon that will help in the building process.

Once again I apologize this isn't much of a rate. I feel taking a step back to look at these resources, then trying to build again is the right move for you in this scenario. While you're still learning you can also use sample teams to learn how good teams are constructed https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/usm-ou-sample-teams.3626219/ then once you feel you have a better grasp on top tier threats in the meta you can try building again. Feel free to let me know if you have any more questions or concerns, and I'll do my best to help.
Thank you for the resources, I'll take a look and try to improve on my team :) Do you recommend any changes to ash-greninja though? If I make a new team, I want to base it around him. Thanks again!
 
Thank you for the resources, I'll take a look and try to improve on my team :) Do you recommend any changes to ash-greninja though? If I make a new team, I want to base it around him. Thanks again!
I don't recommend running Life Orb on greninja though I can see the appeal. You keep damage high but the recoil isn't favourable for Gren. Normally I would recommend choice specs as it is by far the best item for it but if you prefer flexibility then I would suggest waterium Z. You don't have a Z-move yet so why not. The Z move means you can potentially muscle through some Pokemon in the late game though as I mentioned your power will be lacking and harder to get your form. Next run Hydro > Surf because it's stronger stab and with the Z does a decent chunk. Also ice beam isn't usually run on Ash-Greninja, instead run spikes because you can pressure your opponent when they make switches by setting up hazards. That's all I would change on your gren but do try testing with specs because it is definitely a more favoured item slot.

Good luck building, definitely follow those guides.
 
I don't recommend running Life Orb on greninja though I can see the appeal. You keep damage high but the recoil isn't favourable for Gren. Normally I would recommend choice specs as it is by far the best item for it but if you prefer flexibility then I would suggest waterium Z. You don't have a Z-move yet so why not. The Z move means you can potentially muscle through some Pokemon in the late game though as I mentioned your power will be lacking and harder to get your form. Next run Hydro > Surf because it's stronger stab and with the Z does a decent chunk. Also ice beam isn't usually run on Ash-Greninja, instead run spikes because you can pressure your opponent when they make switches by setting up hazards. That's all I would change on your gren but do try testing with specs because it is definitely a more favoured item slot.

Good luck building, definitely follow those guides.
Thank you, I'll try that!
 

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