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Item Assault Vest

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JMach said:
Regenerator, drain punch, giga drain etc...

Seen too many people post 'mons with AV + recoil moves / SR weaknesses etc... Defeats the object of the item IMO.
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AV is already a terrible item, but the people in this thread take it too far. I'm pretty sure every single pokemon in the game has been suggested as a "good" AV user in this thread. To use it effectively you need:

-Good typing
-Priority
-Reliable recovery
-Someway to boost attack(preferably an ability)

The only one that comes to mind is Conkeldrr. I won't really go through the entire pokedex to see if anyone else fits the criteria because the item itself is bad and isn't worth it. Leftovers in every situation is better.
 
some hero said:
AV is already a terrible item, but the people in this thread take it too far. I'm pretty sure every single pokemon in the game has been suggested as a "good" AV user in this thread. To use it effectively you need:

-Good typing
-Priority
-Reliable recovery
-Someway to boost attack(preferably an ability)

The only one that comes to mind is Conkeldrr. I won't really go through the entire pokedex to see if anyone else fits the criteria because the item itself is bad and isn't worth it. Leftovers in every situation is better.
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You're a little too harsh on it, imo. So long as Assault Vest can allow something to do a different role, it's a viable option.

Full out legitimate sets that I would actually use
  • Bisharp - Grants more lenience while switching into the likes of Latios, Zapdos, etc. so that it can sponge an attack properly
  • Slowbro - More Special bulk turns it from a physical wall into a mixed tank
  • Tangrowth - See above
  • Scizor - Allows Scizor to get back to Pursuit trapping the likes of Latias and Gengar
  • Azumarill - Makes for a great check to CharY, Keldeo, Greninja, etc.
  • Conk - duh
Plus it works as a band-aid for holes in a team, which definitely isn't optimal teambuilding, but I'm not going to sit here and say its bad if it works.
 
Lister-Kun said:
I beg to differ, AV Amoonguss and Slowbro are both great. With Amoonguss you can't use Spore, sure, but the threat alone is enough to play well with.
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Honestly I wouldn't run AV Amoongus. Using Spore and Toxic is his main niche, and his Spa is just 85, nothing too threatening. Yes, you can fake a Spore set, but to me it's like faking a Magic Bounce set on Espeon (saw a guy doing this once). Once it get's unveiled, he loses much of his utility.
 
Der Richter said:
Honestly I wouldn't run AV Amoongus. Using Spore and Toxic is his main niche, and his Spa is just 85, nothing too threatening. Yes, you can fake a Spore set, but to me it's like faking a Magic Bounce set on Espeon (saw a guy doing this once). Once it get's unveiled, he loses much of his utility.
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85 BP with Modest nature and max investment can prove to be fairly powerful. And though Spore is great, it's not the only reason to use Amoonguss. Even Breloom is starting to run sets without Spore.
 
Lister-Kun said:
85 BP with Modest nature and max investment can prove to be fairly powerful. And though Spore is great, it's not the only reason to use Amoonguss. Even Breloom is starting to run sets without Spore.
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Yeah, but Breloom has more fire power, it's not like Spore is the only trick up his sleeve.

252+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Sylveon: 176-210 (44.6 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 127-150 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss in Sun: 506-596 (117.1 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 236-282 (54.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 242-288 (56 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't know. I just don't find it worthy enough.
 
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Assault Vest Amoonguss is only really worthy in Ubers cause Ogre and Xerneas are everywhere.

The good Assault Vest users in OU are limited to Conkeldurr, Tangrowth, Slowbro, Azumarill and Tyranitar/Bisharp(sort of). The others are all pretty bad users. Don't say Goodra because it's unviable in OU with every set, AV or not.
 
Talpr0ne said:
Assault Vest Amoonguss is only really worthy in Ubers cause Ogre and Xerneas are everywhere.

The good Assault Vest users in OU are limited to Conkeldurr, Tangrowth, Slowbro, Azumarill and Tyranitar/Bisharp(sort of). The others are all pretty bad users. Don't say Goodra because it's unviable in OU with every set, AV or not.
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Assault vest Amoongus is really good in RU also curse goodra is actually pretty decent so it is not an unviable option in OU
 
I think that the "slap assault vest on stuff" craze is real dumb.

Most of the time, if you are putting assault vest on something defensive, it isn't going to work well.

Conk and Azumarill are the only mons that I've seen actually make good use of it.

Assault vest turns an already bulky poke into a pivot. Using it on a defensive mon just handicaps them and limits their role, making it even more difficult for your team to cover everything that it needs to.
 
Most AV stuff besides Conkeldurr and Goodra are pretty bad, honestly. Raikou is decent enough, as is Entei, but neither of them outclass the LO or Choice Item sets.
 
AV Goodra is pretty bad.
Sure it gets 3HKO'd by Greninja's Ice Beam instead of 2HKO'd but due to diminishing returns you're better off with Leftovers against most neutral/resisted hits.
For example Gengar's Shadow Ball is still a 5HKO against Goodra, factoring SR damage, whether it's holding Leftovers or AV. In this scenario Lefties are clearly the better option since they'll recover health on the turn Gengar switches out (unless the Gengar user is so stupid to stay into something it can't even 4HKO).

In short, in order to qualify as a good AV user, the following requirements must be met:
-not minding losing access to non-damaging moves. Pokemon that heavily rely on them, like Celebi or Blissey, should never run AV
-resistance/immunity to entry hazards
-immunity to passive damage (Poison/Toxic, Burn and Sandstorm being the most important). Abilities that take advantage of negative status effects like Guts also qualify
-access to recovery in the form of draining moves (backed up by decent offensive stats) or Regenerator
-having enough of an offensive or disrupting presence not to become setup bait. By "disrputing" I mean access to moves that discourage setting up, like Dragon Tail, Scald or Knock Off
-good physical bulk. Without that an AV user would be just a worse Chansey with no status moves

Note that it isn't necessary to meet all these requirements at once. However the more of them are met, the better AV user a pokemon is.
 
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Rosenfeldius said:
Most AV stuff besides Conkeldurr and Goodra are pretty bad, honestly. Raikou is decent enough, as is Entei, but neither of them outclass the LO or Choice Item sets.
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Why would they need to "outclass" sets that work differently? IMO Assault Vest turn offensive pokémon into a sort of defenvise patch for teams that struggle against other offensive stuff without sacrificing momentum, that's why Azumarill, Conkeldurr, Excadrilll, Raikou, Bisharp etc are good AV users.
 
Der Richter said:
Yeah, but Breloom has more fire power, it's not like Spore is the only trick up his sleeve.

252+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Sylveon: 176-210 (44.6 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 127-150 (50.3 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss in Sun: 506-596 (117.1 - 137.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Volcarona Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 236-282 (54.6 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Amoonguss: 242-288 (56 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I don't know. I just don't find it worthy enough.
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I meant that AV Amoonguss is good in RU, not OU. I should've made that clear.
 
I've been using AV Slowbro on my team and it runs very well. The last match I played as of this post had him tank a Tbolt from Thundy-I and KO with Ice Beam.

Admittedly, AV Slowking is probably better.
 
largo233 said:
I've been using AV Slowbro on my team and it runs very well. The last match I played as of this post had him tank a Tbolt from Thundy-I and KO with Ice Beam.

Admittedly, AV Slowking is probably better.
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AV Slowking isn't that good. It's a very good special tank, but really lacks on the physical side. AV Slowbro is a better mixed tank.
 
largo233 said:
I've been using AV Slowbro on my team and it runs very well. The last match I played as of this post had him tank a Tbolt from Thundy-I and KO with Ice Beam.

Admittedly, AV Slowking is probably better.
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What's the spread?
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 299-354 (75.8 - 89.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Do you run many SpA EVs? You need 208 to even have a chance to KO after SR, and with 252 you only have a 25% chance?
 
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