Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings MK III

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Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
#1
Approved by Eevee General

Balanced Hackmons Viability Rankings


rip kyogre and groudon
Welcome to the Balanced Hackmons Viability Ranking thread. As is implied in the title, the purpose of this thread is to rank Pokemon based on how well they perform in the metagame, with the help of you, the community. Through your opinions and thoughts on the metagame, Pokemon are listed in order of viability with the best at the top of the rankings and the least usable at the bottom.

This thread, similarly to other viability ranking threads, will list both offensive and defensive Pokemon together.

Example: Both Mega Diancie and Aegislash being placed in the A Rank means that, according to the thread, Mega Diancie's overall offensive capabilities are at a similar level of Aegislash's overall defensive capabilities.

The following people are part of the council, which means that they get the final say on changes in the rankings (After considering community input, of course)


Below are the definitions of each rank, and they should be read be anyone that wants to participate in the discussion of Pokemon's ranks in BH:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the BH metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.



Without further ado, here are the rankings:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the BH metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Chansey
Rayquaza-Mega

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the BH metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

A+ Rank

Giratina
Mewtwo-Mega-Y

A Rank

Blissey
Mewtwo-Mega-X

A- Rank

Aegislash
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Shedinja

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

B+ Rank

Arceus-*
Regirock
Registeel
Slowbro-Mega

B Rank

Aggron-Mega
Audino-Mega
Dialga
Gyarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Xerneas
Yveltal

B- Rank

Cresselia
Kyurem-White
Tyranitar-Mega

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

C+ Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega
Darmanitan-Zen
Deoxys-Speed
Lugia
Hoopa-Unbound
Regigigas
Slaking

C Rank

Ho-oh
Palkia
Zekrom

C- Rank

Garchomp-Mega
Kangaskhan-Mega
Reshiram
Venusaur-Mega
Scizor-Mega

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the BH metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

D Rank

Alakazam-Mega
Altaria-Mega
Banette-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Deoxys-Attack
Gourgeist-Super
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Houndoom-Mega
Lucario-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Shuckle
Skarmory


Rules:
  • Post intelligently. If you think a Pokemon should be at a certain rank, don't just state it; provide evidence. Posts that do otherwise will not be tolerated and deleted.
  • Goes without saying, but no flaming. This should be a civilized discussion.
 
Last edited:

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
#2
Reserved for archiving changes in rankings.

S Rank:

Chansey
Groudon-Primal
Kyogre-Primal
Rayquaza-Mega

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Giratina
Mewtwo-Mega-Y

A Rank

Blissey
Mewtwo-Mega-X
Slowbro-Mega

A- Rank

Aegislash
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Shedinja

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Arceus
Regirock
Registeel
Xerneas

B Rank

Aggron-Mega
Audino-Mega
Dialga
Gyarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Yveltal

B- Rank

Cresselia
Kyurem-White
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Tyranitar-Mega

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega
Darmanitan-Zen
Deoxys-Speed
Hoopa-Unbound
Regigigas
Slaking

C Rank

Ho-oh
Lugia
Palkia
Reshiram
Venusaur-Mega
Zekrom

C- Rank

Garchomp-Mega
Kangaskhan-Mega
Scizor-Mega

D Rank:

D Rank

Alakazam-Mega
Banette-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Deoxys-Attack
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Houndoom-Mega
Lucario-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Shuckle
Skarmory

Kyogre-Primal S -> A+
Slowbro-Mega A -> B+
Latias-Mega B- -> B
Latios-Mega B- -> B
Lugia C -> C+
Reshiram C -> C-
Venusaur-Mega C -> C-

S Rank:

Chansey
Groudon-Primal
Rayquaza-Mega

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Giratina
Kyogre-Primal
Mewtwo-Mega-Y

A Rank

Blissey
Mewtwo-Mega-X

A- Rank

Aegislash
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Shedinja

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Arceus-*
Regirock
Registeel
Slowbro-Mega
Xerneas

B Rank

Aggron-Mega
Audino-Mega
Dialga
Gyarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Yveltal

B- Rank

Cresselia
Kyurem-White
Tyranitar-Mega

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega
Darmanitan-Zen
Deoxys-Speed
Lugia
Hoopa-Unbound
Regigigas
Slaking

C Rank

Ho-oh
Palkia
Zekrom

C- Rank

Garchomp-Mega
Kangaskhan-Mega
Reshiram
Venusaur-Mega
Scizor-Mega

D Rank:

D Rank

Alakazam-Mega
Banette-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Deoxys-Attack
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Houndoom-Mega
Lucario-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Shuckle
Skarmory

Xerneas B+ -> B
Altaria-Mega Unlisted -> D
Gourgeist-Super Unlisted -> D

S Rank:

Chansey
Groudon-Primal
Rayquaza-Mega

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Giratina
Kyogre-Primal
Mewtwo-Mega-Y

A Rank

Blissey
Mewtwo-Mega-X

A- Rank

Aegislash
Diancie-Mega
Gengar-Mega
Shedinja

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Arceus-*
Regirock
Registeel
Slowbro-Mega

B Rank

Aggron-Mega
Audino-Mega
Dialga
Gyarados-Mega
Kyurem-Black
Latias-Mega
Latios-Mega
Xerneas
Yveltal

B- Rank

Cresselia
Kyurem-White
Tyranitar-Mega

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega
Darmanitan-Zen
Deoxys-Speed
Lugia
Hoopa-Unbound
Regigigas
Slaking

C Rank

Ho-oh
Palkia
Zekrom

C- Rank

Garchomp-Mega
Kangaskhan-Mega
Reshiram
Venusaur-Mega
Scizor-Mega

D Rank:

D Rank

Alakazam-Mega
Altaria-Mega
Banette-Mega
Charizard-Mega-Y
Deoxys-Attack
Gourgeist-Super
Ferrothorn
Heatran
Houndoom-Mega
Lucario-Mega
Mawile-Mega
Sceptile-Mega
Shuckle
Skarmory
 
Last edited:

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
#3
To start off discussion in this thread, we will be solidifying the rankings we have right now. These rankings are preliminary, and may not be the best representation of viability in the current meta. We'll begin by discussing the pokemon currently in the S Rank and A Rank. After the community has provided their input on these pokemon and the council has come to a consensus on the rankings, we will move on to B Rank and so on until all pokemon are covered.

For now, please limit discussion to only the pokemon currently ranked in S Rank or A Rank, unless there is a pokemon that you think should be ranked but is not currently on the list.


We are also looking for potentially one or two more people to be part of the viability rankings council. If you would like to be a part of the council, then please contribute to the ranking discussions by posting your reasoning on whether or not a pokemon should stay at the rank it is currently at. We are looking for people who are both experienced at the meta and able to present ideas logically.

And please, for the love of god, be nice to each other. Just because you disagree with someone's claim doesn't mean you should bash everything they said. This isn't a debate, this is a discussion, and our goal is to reach a consensus :)
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#4
Really glad this is set up again.

I'd like to recommend moving Slowbro-Mega down from A Rank to A- Rank. While it's very useful on the physical side, it has to run Soundproof to deal with -ates, and even then it loses to Techno Blast, which ebbs and flows in popularity, or coverage moves. I see it as similar to Mega Aggron.

Of course, its main advantage over Mega Aggron is a typing that allows it to better deal with Primal Groudon. But I don't think that alone is enough to justify it being ahead of things like Aegislash and Shedinja.

Mega Steelix is still missing. As you said in chat, it has an unfortunate Fire weakness, but because Kyu-B has vanished, the Ice neutrality isn't much of an issue. I'd like to suggest at least putting it in D Rank, if not C- Rank.

I'll edit in / post more things as discussion progresses.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
#5
Really glad this is set up again.

I'd like to recommend moving Slowbro-Mega down from A Rank to A- Rank. While it's very useful on the physical side, it has to run Soundproof to deal with -ates, and even then it loses to Techno Blast, which ebbs and flows in popularity, or coverage moves. I see it as similar to Mega Aggron.

Of course, its main advantage over Mega Aggron is a typing that allows it to better deal with Primal Groudon. But I don't think that alone is enough to justify it being ahead of things like Aegislash and Shedinja.

Mega Steelix is still missing. As you said in chat, it has an unfortunate Fire weakness, but because Kyu-B has vanished, the Ice neutrality isn't much of an issue. I'd like to suggest at least putting it in D Rank, if not C- Rank.

I'll edit in / post more things as discussion progresses.
I think the problem with Steelix is that it is basically a worse version of Aggron. Its bulk is slightly higher, 75/230/95 versus 70/230/80, but the added ground typing doesn't do it many favors. Poison and Rock are already resisted by steel (not to mention rarely ever used), and Electric is also rarely ever used. It adds a weakness to Water and removes its resists to Grass and Ice. The first two are mostly irrelevant as Water is most of the time special and Aggron wont be living it anyways and grass is never used as an attacking type. Ice is however, as you mentioned, more significant. Even if Ice isn't as common of an attacking type as it used to be in the XY meta, I don't think the small increase of bulk is worth running Steelix over Aggron.
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#6
I think the problem with Steelix is that it is basically a worse version of Aggron. Its bulk is slightly higher, 75/230/95 versus 70/230/80, but the added ground typing doesn't do it many favors. Poison and Rock are already resisted by steel (not to mention rarely ever used), and Electric is also rarely ever used. It adds a weakness to Water and removes its resists to Grass and Ice. The first two are mostly irrelevant as Water is most of the time special and Aggron wont be living it anyways and grass is never used as an attacking type. Ice is however, as you mentioned, more significant. Even if Ice isn't as common of an attacking type as it used to be in the XY meta, I don't think the small increase of bulk is worth running Steelix over Aggron.
That's okay. I'm fine with either decision on Steelix.

But Electric immunity is at least somewhat nice, and I don't think you can say Steelix is so bad that the statement "Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it" is too positive to apply to it.
 
#7
Steelix Mega is also slower than mega aggron giving it a very good pivoting abilities and it gets stab on thousand arrows which is honestly very great choice over the grind gear all mega aggrons tend to run.

I think it really deserves the D
 
#8
In my playtime in BH, I have come to find certain things differently than most people. Not trying saying that I am the only one who knows about the BH meta, or even that I even know it completely, as I know I don't know the metagame completely. Nonetheless, here is my input:

Shedinja to B+. Shedinja is decent, but A- is a bit to high. It is just WAY overemphasized. It is definitely not that A- rank worthy, but it is still a threat.

Giratina to low S rank imo. Giratina is VERY good, especially PH Giratina. He wins so many games since few people really know how to fight him. Low S because he isn't quite up to snuff against Primal Kyogre and such.

Hoopa-Unbound is not the greatest, but certainly not C+. He deserves B-, as he is a great attacker under the right circumstances. Those circumstances are hard to come by though.

Why the hell is Aegislash higher than Registeel??? Registeel is better in terms of bulk, and in some cases, typing. Registeel minds a Knock Off, but not nearly as bad as Aegislash. See Mega Gengar at A-? It is a bit more common, and completely destroys Aegislash. Yes, Registeel is also destroyed, but not as fast.

Yveltal to A. It is hard for stall and certain playstyles to play without Yveltal, but stall in particular REALLY appreciates PH Yveltal's ability to take out Mega Gengar.

Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Mewtwo Y need to switch places. I know for a fact that Mega Mewtwo X is generally better than Mega Mewtwo Y, as Mega Mewtwo Y is primarily a stallbreaker, while Mega Mewtwo X is just such a good attacker in general. See my mixed Mega Mewtwo X if your are wondering why I didn't say it is solely a physical attacker.

That's all I have. Please consider these changes.
 
#9
B ----> A-

Yveltal has a few different movesets, from the more offensive ones (Aerilate/Gale Wings) and the defensive sets (PH definitely comes to mind) allowing it to fit on stall, balance, and HO. Unfortunately, some of the -ate counters (even with the nerf you still see MegaRay running around and such) spill into Yveltal's viability (Registeel comes to mind), thus why i'm not asking for it to be put higher.

D ----> Unranked

Deo-A was already bad and outclassed enough, but the metagame changes BH has undergone were the last nail in the coffin for Deo-A. Protean sets are done better by most Protean users anyway (Use MMX/MMY, they both are MUCH better Protean users), and even then, with Mega Ray (and MMX/Y, who already existed before ORAS), 180/180 stats are pretty invalid when you have 2 mons that are higher in a stat and one that also has equal offensive stats, which both have better bulk, while Deo-A still has the defensive stats of a wet paper bag, meaning it easily falls to Protean/-ate Extremespeed, all priority, and pretty much anything faster than it. The bulkier nature of the meta isn't too kind for the Twizzler alien either, for the reasons I just listed, as well as due to it not being able to net KOs as easily with PDon/POgre everywhere, as well as Chansey never going away, and walls like Registeel and Aegislash.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#10
Shedinja to B+. Shedinja is decent, but A- is a bit to high. It is just WAY overemphasized. It is definitely not that A- rank worthy, but it is still a threat.
shedinja is one of the rare pokemon that you have to look PAST the metagame in order to actually rank it (similarly to chansey) if you look past the simplicity, you realise what the opponent needs to DO to have that simplicity (most people either running moldbreaker pursuit, or running random infestation on sweepers). shedinja is A- rank because it effectively shifts the meta to the point that people have to run dedicated counters to it in order to be able to handle it. basically, this, on top of the fact its a godlike pivot if you lack moldbreaker pursuit, is why we chose to gave it its ranking of A-

Giratina to low S rank imo. Giratina is VERY good, especially PH Giratina. He wins so many games since few people really know how to fight him. Low S because he isn't quite up to snuff against Primal Kyogre and such.
giratina is good, but its not THAT good. remember, S rank is for pokemon that can perform one or many roles very effectively, and giratina allthough good, still struggles with plenty of offensive pokemon, which is terrible for a defensive pokemon, as everything common at the moment can easily dismantle giratina. and honestly, there arent many good giratina sets anymore, and the only way to get the most out of gira is with heavy team support (stop to ate...stop to protean...stop to contrary...stop to gengar...etc.) and thats kinda why we didnt decide to go S rank with it.

Hoopa-Unbound is not the greatest, but certainly not C+. He deserves B-, as he is a great attacker under the right circumstances. Those circumstances are hard to come by though.
as not using hoopa myself, i cannot really form a decent opinion of hoopa, so someone else will have to agree or disagree with you here.

Why the hell is Aegislash higher than Registeel??? Registeel is better in terms of bulk, and in some cases, typing. Registeel minds a Knock Off, but not nearly as bad as Aegislash. See Mega Gengar at A-? It is a bit more common, and completely destroys Aegislash. Yes, Registeel is also destroyed, but not as fast.
aegis has a couple of niches, as being immune to physical contrary with fire typing, fighting type attacks, and whatnot, it also is immune to trapping, which allthough is a small deal, is still very nice with prankster sets to switch in on a random perish trapper. HOWEVER. i do feel like regi should be moved up beside aegis or vice versa. and depending on the rest of the councils decision, it is something i will consider.

Yveltal to A. It is hard for stall and certain playstyles to play without Yveltal, but stall in particular REALLY appreciates PH Yveltal's ability to take out Mega Gengar.
Yveltal has a few different movesets, from the more offensive ones (Aerilate/Gale Wings) and the defensive sets (PH definitely comes to mind) allowing it to fit on stall, balance, and HO. Unfortunately, some of the -ate counters (even with the nerf you still see MegaRay running around and such) spill into Yveltal's viability (Registeel comes to mind), thus why i'm not asking for it to be put higher.
again, this this just like giratina. dispite stalls appiciation of eliminating mega gengar, regardless it is still just...not enough, it requires team support against everything else. and mega gengar itself has become rare due to many offensive pokemon being able to stop it cold. just because it needs team support to be good, doesnt mean B rank makes it "unusable" it just means "throwing it on a team doesnt work more often then not"

Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Mewtwo Y need to switch places. I know for a fact that Mega Mewtwo X is generally better than Mega Mewtwo Y, as Mega Mewtwo Y is primarily a stallbreaker, while Mega Mewtwo X is just such a good attacker in general. See my mixed Mega Mewtwo X if your are wondering why I didn't say it is solely a physical attacker.
this decision was mainly a "reap what you sew", that unlike mm2y, X needs a very specific check on your team, meanwhile Y just needs you to run the popular imposter chansey in order to wall giving mm2y more moves to abuse. mega mewtwo is a powerful attacker, but its also a huge pressure on your own team given someone imposters it forcing you to either be imposter weak, or have "select coverage syndrome". protean is its most common ability, and thats what we based it on ,-, im certain there were other reasons...but thats all i remember. also contrary mega mewtwo has a lot of checks and counters, chansey being one of them, meanwhile if mm2y just spams psychoboost/overheat/draco, its a lot harder to counter, given chansey would need to risk a speed tie. and has generally less stuff that can switch into its attacks. both are good pokemon, one just gets "auto imposter immune" by running something pretty much nessisary regardless.

D ----> Unranked

Deo-A was already bad and outclassed enough, but the metagame changes BH has undergone were the last nail in the coffin for Deo-A. Protean sets are done better by most Protean users anyway (Use MMX/MMY, they both are MUCH better Protean users), and even then, with Mega Ray (and MMX/Y, who already existed before ORAS), 180/180 stats are pretty invalid when you have 2 mons that are higher in a stat and one that also has equal offensive stats, which both have better bulk, while Deo-A still has the defensive stats of a wet paper bag, meaning it easily falls to Protean/-ate Extremespeed, all priority, and pretty much anything faster than it. The bulkier nature of the meta isn't too kind for the Twizzler alien either, for the reasons I just listed, as well as due to it not being able to net KOs as easily with PDon/POgre everywhere, as well as Chansey never going away, and walls like Registeel and Aegislash.
actually, deoxys has gotten BETTER due to the BH changes, its protean set, contrary spam set(seriously dont run v-create enless you want to be walked all over by imposter), and stuff still are a huge factor, deoxys' protean set is a huge annoyance to chansey, because it cannot switch in, and if deoxys runs protect(not KS or spiky sheild might i add) (which 99% of protean run king shield anyways), its pretty much guarenteed to kill SOMETHING on the opposing team due to its fast speed teir, and completely shit bulk, forcing chansey to get koed if it switches into deoxys with its sash intact. of course it is outclassed, but it still has a niche, that requires 0 team support, and can fill a role rather easily. the thing about deoxys, is if you only run 1 thing to stop it (priority/imposter) you are going to lose a hefty chunk of your team to it even with 1 hp, and with the ate clause being in effect, now you NEED to run both chansey AND ate in order to stop it from mauling a team. deoxys is seriously underrated due to its piss poor bulk, but given you play it mildly safely, it can be a huge pain for ALL teams to face. its speed teir lets it outspeed the entire meta, and any priority spammers has to sacrifice itself to actually get it down to its sash. both me and flint have used it, and both of us were shocked with the good results. try it out. its seriously better then you think.

252 Atk Protean Deoxys-A Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0- Def Eviolite Chansey: 796-937 (113 - 133%) -- guaranteed OHKO proteans #1 check cant even handle it.
thats with a normal typing btw. so if chansey protects, it still dies. and with close combat its perfect coverage.

its no "mega rayquaza, or mewtwo x/y" but it still has a niche. a niche that imo, people havent caught on yet.

i hope my attempts to enlighten you guys was not in complete vain.
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#11
Yeah, I agree with Lcass regarding both of cooldude dude's suggestions.

I honestly don't think Yveltal is very effective in the current metagame. It lost a great deal of bulk as a result of the EV change (for obvious reasons), and can't exactly take on -ates even with King's Shield because its low speed allows it to be hit with Boomburst. Ice and Fairy weaknesses are also pretty problematic. Its most significant role at this point is that of a Gengar-Mega counter (check?), and in even that role it's been surpassed in popularity by Mega Gyarados. I believe it should stay where it is.

As for NOC, Lcass already addressed most, but here's my feeling about Hoopa-U:

Hoopa-Unbound is not the greatest, but certainly not C+. He deserves B-, as he is a great attacker under the right circumstances. Those circumstances are hard to come by though.
There's a thin line between B- and C+.

B Rank is "Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the BH metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential."

Meanwhile, C Rank is "Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the BH metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon."

The second description is a much better fit for Hoopa-U. Its notable flaws — low speed, horrible defenses, general -ate issues — prevent it from often being effective. It does, however, have the "notable niche" of Hyperspace Fury, but to be honest, if it lacked that, it wouldn't be used at all.
 
#12
I'll just add to Deo-A thing that due of its low balk you can run contratory (careful with the v-creates tho) or a setup sweep set on it aswell, not just protean, if you have a -ate of your own as foe's imposter can revenge kill the deo-a but cant sweep your team back due of the low balk making it easy pray for -ates.

That is one of its strongest niches why it can stay listed to begin with. Cheap glass cannon that imposters dont want to stay as.

If priority use wouldnt be so high Deo-A could raise even higher imo. But I think its safe to keep it D.
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#13
Altaria-Mega from Unlisted to D Rank. By virtue of its typing alone, which makes it resist all common Contrary moves but Psycho Boost, it has a niche. It has low HP but high defenses. Fur Coat sets can be really obnoxious, and are probably one of best defensive choices. As far as offense is concerned, 110/110 is pretty low for BH, but I was thinking of testing a couple of Altarianite sets with some sort of setup ability -> Pixilate. Overall, its typing makes up for its mediocre stats, at least enough to get it into the lowest rank.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#14
I'll just add to Deo-A thing that due of its low balk you can run contratory (careful with the v-creates tho) or a setup sweep set on it aswell, not just protean, if you have a -ate of your own as foe's imposter can revenge kill the deo-a but cant sweep your team back due of the low balk making it easy pray for -ates.

That is one of its strongest niches why it can stay listed to begin with. Cheap glass cannon that imposters dont want to stay as.

If priority use wouldnt be so high Deo-A could raise even higher imo. But I think its safe to keep it D.
b...but i mentioned contrary ;~; also setup sweeper deo A sux
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#16
It's not that terrible. It functions in pretty much the same way contrary deo-a does.
except it has to sacrifice a turn/moveslot to set up-something it cant do anyways, as even walls have status/infest on them, and even then it is easily revenge killed by ate due to lack of protect. the mega mewtwos do setup better because setup sweeping not only makes its small niche obsolete(outspeeding the meta naturally) they actually have the bulk and slightly better offense to be a more consistant threat. deoxys A's niche is being able to hit the meta quick and hard, with little resilience, and sacrificing a turn to do that-especially when another pokemon can do it better and more efficiently-i dont see ANY reason setup is any good on deoxys A.
 
#17
except it has to sacrifice a turn/moveslot to set up-something it cant do anyways, as even walls have status/infest on them, and even then it is easily revenge killed by ate due to lack of protect. the mega mewtwos do setup better because setup sweeping not only makes its small niche obsolete(outspeeding the meta naturally) they actually have the bulk and slightly better offense to be a more consistant threat. deoxys A's niche is being able to hit the meta quick and hard, with little resilience, and sacrificing a turn to do that-especially when another pokemon can do it better and more efficiently-i dont see ANY reason setup is any good on deoxys A.

The foe pretty much has to send out something that would outspeed or has priority to stop and outspeeding it is pretty hard so it will function absolutely fantastic as setup sweeper once foe's ate is gone.
One tail glow is all it takes.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#18
The foe pretty much has to send out something that would outspeed or has priority to stop and outspeeding it is pretty hard so it will function absolutely fantastic as setup sweeper once foe's ate is gone.
One tail glow is all it takes.
i mean, i guess you have a point, i just prefer my setup sweepers to have some bulk on them. deoxys' 3 niches are "being able to scare imposter and generally threaten 70% of the meta 1v1, being one of the best speed teirs in the game, and being unpredictable. i get using tail glow, but with contrary, spamming psychoboost, draco, and overheat probably would be better in ANY given scenario. wasting a valuable "free sash" turn for setup when it runs a set that regardlessly does the same thing albeit a bit more restricted (which even then its not really, its not like you HAVE to run draco/overheat you could easily run a set of "psychoboost, overheat, earthpower, spiky shield" for example. being able to set up even on offensive pokes with no repercussions>>>sacrificing a turn you could have saved from a suprise scarfer/chansey or something. you must be underestimating unboosted deoxys attacks power:

252 SpA Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyogre: 166-196 (41 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO(its a 2hko with contrary, so its basically tail glowing and then attacking)
thats not even a set kyogre RUNS i dont think any run spc def investment (even Av sets iirc run max def/spc attack, which none are even being used regardless)

contrary and protean are the 2 sets i see deoxys A doing well. i guess i can see setup sweeping in theory, but i just dont see how "overkill power" justifies use over "reliability" especially in a offensive orientated meta.
 
#19
You're talking to a evil scientist of the BH, trust me, having ability slot open leaves Deo-A room for a lot of... nasty surprises.

Contratory and Protean are still pretty standart and very reliable I admit that, and they also work with lower team support.
But, still don't underestimate the setup sweeper variants, they might end up doing badthings™ with the correct team behind em.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#20
You're talking to a evil scientist of the BH, trust me, having ability slot open leaves Deo-A room for a lot of... nasty surprises.

Contratory and Protean are still pretty standart and very reliable I admit that, and they also work with lower team support.
But, still don't underestimate the setup sweeper variants, they might end up doing badthings™ with the correct team behind em.
well, i shall agree to dissagree-somewhat, considering i DO agree with you, just not 100%. also using teams as an argument doesnt matter much when i could easily tell people "prankster xatu is very effective in the bh meta given it has some good teammates" however i get what you are saying.
 
#21
well, i shall agree to dissagree-somewhat, considering i DO agree with you, just not 100%. also using teams as an argument doesnt matter much when i could easily tell people "prankster xatu is very effective in the bh meta given it has some good teammates" however i get what you are saying.
Which is the same thing as saying that you "dissagree-somewhat."
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#22
Which is the same thing as saying that you "dissagree-somewhat."
...yes...i just said that... i would've lied if i had said i agreed/disagreed considering neither of which is true. notice the "considering" before the comma after the second part. that usually means someone is explaining the hypothesis they came up with. and that instance was no different. but i feel like we are all getting off topic now.
 

Kit Kasai

Love colored magic
#23
Lcass has been doing some testing with Deoxys-A and it's actually proven to be very powerful, albeit tricky to use correctly (because you need to keep the sash intact). I think C- might be better for it as it has a significant niche in its nature of being a glass-cannon, and it's certainly a lot more potent than the other mons in D rank.

There are also a few other mons I'd like to bring up for discussion right now:

Kyogre-Primal: Although it is obviously extremely powerful because of the nature of its insanely high base stats, is it really strong enough to be considered S-Rank? It's certainly not as common as the other S rank mons (although this shouldn't really be taken into account for viability), and I think it lacks the immediate speed and power that Ray provides as well as the perfect STAB coverage that Groudon has.
Slowbro-Mega: Slowbro used to be a great stop to -ate users because of its naturally high physical bulk and the ability Soundproof, but now many -ate mons have started to use Techno Blast instead of Boomburst, effectively rendering Slowbro's role as an -ate stop obsolete. It has the potential for other useful sets, like prankster, magic bounce, and fur coat, but is this enough to justify it being in A rank?
Aegislash: Back in early XY, Aegislash was an amazing wall because of its high defenses and typing. It was one of the best stops to -ate, as it could easily take the resisted hits and even some super effective hits. Now it has more trouble dealing with offense, first because of the power creep ORAS brought along, but also because of the EV change which makes it so Aegislash can no longer run mixed bulk. Because of these two things, Aegislash finds it much harder to reliably wall -ate users as it takes significantly more damage from resisted hits and it has to switch out immediately because of how passive it is (and to avoid dying to common coverage moves). Is Aegislash still viable enough in the current meta to be considered A rank?
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
is a Pre-Contributor
#24
Kyogre-Primal: Although it is obviously extremely powerful because of the nature of its insanely high base stats, is it really strong enough to be considered S-Rank? It's certainly not as common as the other S rank mons (although this shouldn't really be taken into account for viability), and I think it lacks the immediate speed and power that Ray provides as well as the perfect STAB coverage that Groudon has.
Slowbro-Mega: Slowbro used to be a great stop to -ate users because of its naturally high physical bulk and the ability Soundproof, but now many -ate mons have started to use Techno Blast instead of Boomburst, effectively rendering Slowbro's role as an -ate stop obsolete. It has the potential for other useful sets, like prankster, magic bounce, and fur coat, but is this enough to justify it being in A rank?
Aegislash: Back in early XY, Aegislash was an amazing wall because of its high defenses and typing. It was one of the best stops to -ate, as it could easily take the resisted hits and even some super effective hits. Now it has more trouble dealing with offense, first because of the power creep ORAS brought along, but also because of the EV change which makes it so Aegislash can no longer run mixed bulk. Because of these two things, Aegislash finds it much harder to reliably wall -ate users as it takes significantly more damage from resisted hits and it has to switch out immediately because of how passive it is (and to avoid dying to common coverage moves). Is Aegislash still viable enough in the current meta to be considered A rank?
Kyogre-P: Its ancient Poison Heal set is still quite good in the current meta, as shown by its number 7 spot on the usage stats. Loses to -ates, IF they switch in freely (which it's hard to because of Water STAB / Ice Beam / Moonblast). Definitely still S-rank, or at the very least A+.

Slowbro-Mega: Techno Blast / Boomburst is really a 50/50, similar to the Return / Frustration debate. It's still good, however; it has good defensive typing for what it walls, such as V-create. Plus, there's always Regenvest to patch up its special defense, as it has a good enough special attack to make it work. A-rank seems like a good fit for it still. If you're really paranoid about all -ates running Techno Blast, A- I guess.

Aegislash: Still has a good typing, and still has decent bulk. Prankster sets accomplish what they need to (it also can use Curse too if you're into that), and Flash Fire sets are basically THE STOP TO ALL CONTRARY EVER. My one complaint about it is that it's weak to Knock Off. However, Knock Off is still common, and Groudon-P is now a huge thing. Definitely B+/A- material.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
#25
Lcass has been doing some testing with Deoxys-A and it's actually proven to be very powerful, albeit tricky to use correctly (because you need to keep the sash intact). I think C- might be better for it as it has a significant niche in its nature of being a glass-cannon, and it's certainly a lot more potent than the other mons in D rank.
the problem is, not to brag or anything, im considered among most to be slightly better then average players, both me and flint(among others obviously) to be exact. im not implying anything, however, in order to beef up its rank, people will actually have to use it to effectively gauge what its ranking is. to me it might look C rank, but with my prediction skills, i can MAKE it effective. rather then it actually BEING effective...catch what im saying? test it for yourself and see if you feel like its worth C-
Kyogre-Primal: Although it is obviously extremely powerful because of the nature of its insanely high base stats, is it really strong enough to be considered S-Rank? It's certainly not as common as the other S rank mons (although this shouldn't really be taken into account for viability), and I think it lacks the immediate speed and power that Ray provides as well as the perfect STAB coverage that Groudon has.
honestly, i would say A+ with this thing...before megay mega ray was intoduced ph ogre was a beast, and we theorymonned primal would be unbeatable!...untill ray ohkos it with slight investment whom is super common at this point.
Slowbro-Mega: Slowbro used to be a great stop to -ate users because of its naturally high physical bulk and the ability Soundproof, but now many -ate mons have started to use Techno Blast instead of Boomburst, effectively rendering Slowbro's role as an -ate stop obsolete. It has the potential for other useful sets, like prankster, magic bounce, and fur coat, but is this enough to justify it being in A rank?
slowbro was a damn good soundproofer while it lasted...however, its psychic typing leaves it weak to knock off among other common moves...its good....but i just dont see it being A rank material i would go A-/B+ its good, but needs SOME team support to give it that "good" status.
Aegislash: Back in early XY, Aegislash was an amazing wall because of its high defenses and typing. It was one of the best stops to -ate, as it could easily take the resisted hits and even some super effective hits. Now it has more trouble dealing with offense, first because of the power creep ORAS brought along, but also because of the EV change which makes it so Aegislash can no longer run mixed bulk. Because of these two things, Aegislash finds it much harder to reliably wall -ate users as it takes significantly more damage from resisted hits and it has to switch out immediately because of how passive it is (and to avoid dying to common coverage moves). Is Aegislash still viable enough in the current meta to be considered A rank?
what scared people most, and what killed aegis' utility, was tarrows, however, aegis also has quite a few stuff about it that still makes it A rank imo. its prankster set is super annoying having a "mixed blessing typing" which allthough registeel does better, it DOES have a complete immunity to trapping via soundproof. aegis can also still stop physical contrary dead in its tracks, and can challenge specially based contrary with flash fire and that alone is worthy of honor, with the ev limit, aegis might have been shafted a bit, but its still good enough. i would say lower to A-, and bump registeel up to A- as well, since both are practically similar with minor-yet super important-differences. regi with its bulk and pure steel typing, and aegis with its trapping immunity and ghost typing.
 
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