BH Balanced Hackmons

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
also, what would be a good counter for a stat boosted chantey like if it imposters my contrary regi
As said before, an Unaware mon will check impostered Contrary. But also as said before, it would be best to drop Contrary Gigas. No Contrary set works great for it and especially not a mixed set like you are running. Poison Heal is the best set for Gigas. Your contrary set has to worry about burns, para, and poison crippling it.
 
Again, the central resources page has it, but generally good contrary users all have a strong contrary stab, which regi lacks, and ph regi is just so good because of a no drawback 140 bp stab that is also pretty imposter proof. Mold breaker regi is another set to check aps sweepers using stab espeed.
 
The main advantage of Contrary Gigas is Spectral Thief immunity. Other Contraries are generally superior, however. Even Pokemon like Victini and Celibi do more damage with their STABs. (Both have great Contrary typings, but don't use those two since their stats are pretty bad.) Either way, you should typically opt for something with a STAB for Contrary sets unless you have a very good reason to need Contrary Gigas over either a different Contrary or Poison Heal Gigas.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
The main advantage of Contrary Gigas is Spectral Thief immunity. Other Contraries are generally superior, however. Even Pokemon like Victini and Celibi do more damage with their STABs. (Both have great Contrary typings, but don't use those two since their stats are pretty bad.) Either way, you should typically opt for something with a STAB for Contrary sets unless you have a very good reason to need Contrary Gigas over either a different Contrary or Poison Heal Gigas.
Another advantage is that Regigas only has 1 weakness and notable bulk. I would say you could also
give Regigas Z-Conversion with Normalium-Z, which isn’t impacted by Contrary and let’s you gain STAB off your moves such as Fire for V-Create.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
As we are on the topic of improofing, I made a discovery yesterday that will hurt the viability of certain "plate" improofing sets. It seems that Judgment is no longer affected by abilities such as Pixilate, Galvanize, etc. After a quick test on Showdown, it looks like the same goes for Multi-Attack. Both of these are Normal type if the user does not hold a different plate or memory, regardless of the ability.

In the past, I know that this was not the case, as Primal Groudon ran Earth Plate Galvanize to improof and non-plate imposters could not do damage with Judgment. But yesterday, while running Galvanize Mega Ampharos, a non-plate imposter used Judgment for neutral damage rather than a 4X resist. Non-plate imposter could also hit my PDon for neutral damage.

Here's a replay of the action. Turn 29 shows imposter hitting me for neutral damage. Turn 39 shows me knocking off imposter's Eviolite.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-734293848

This of course doesn't affect the viability of plate sets for Ghosts or Steels, but will definitely hamper plate improofers that count on the opponents Judgments to hit for NFE damage. It might be worth questioning the Zekrom set on the resources page, as it is the only unbanned set under improofed set-up that would see impact from this.
 
As we are on the topic of improofing, I made a discovery yesterday that will hurt the viability of certain "plate" improofing sets. It seems that Judgment is no longer affected by abilities such as Pixilate, Galvanize, etc. After a quick test on Showdown, it looks like the same goes for Multi-Attack. Both of these are Normal type if the user does not hold a different plate or memory, regardless of the ability.

In the past, I know that this was not the case, as Primal Groudon ran Earth Plate Galvanize to improof and non-plate imposters could not do damage with Judgment. But yesterday, while running Galvanize Mega Ampharos, a non-plate imposter used Judgment for neutral damage rather than a 4X resist. Non-plate imposter could also hit my PDon for neutral damage.

Here's a replay of the action. Turn 29 shows imposter hitting me for neutral damage. Turn 39 shows me knocking off imposter's Eviolite.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-734293848

This of course doesn't affect the viability of plate sets for Ghosts or Steels, but will definitely hamper plate improofers that count on the opponents Judgments to hit for NFE damage. It might be worth questioning the Zekrom set on the resources page, as it is the only unbanned set under improofed set-up that would see impact from this.
-ates etc affecting judgment was a bug and has since been fixed. part of the bug was also that normalise boosted judgment even when used with spooky plate so the bug fix has made mgar noticeably weaker. This is why sets such as Galvanise Primal Groudon fell out of usage (before it was banned) as well as things like galvanise Mega Sceptile.

Judgment with a plate does make it easier to improof with something like giratina/tyranitar though.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnus
-ates etc affecting judgment was a bug and has since been fixed. part of the bug was also that normalise boosted judgment even when used with spooky plate so the bug fix has made mgar noticeably weaker. This is why sets such as Galvanise Primal Groudon fell out of usage (before it was banned) as well as things like galvanise Mega Sceptile.

Judgment with a plate does make it easier to improof with something like giratina/tyranitar though.
That makes sense. I guess I didn't realize it had been fixed. Maybe it is time to update that role compendium though, since a lot of it is looking out of date. Or just not that viable in some cases.
 
OM! Lack of weaknesses is offset by no resistances. Immunity to Ghost can be nice though. Likewise, Gigas' STAB has nothing weak to it while Ghost is immune and Rock and Steel resist.
 
deer (Xerneas) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast

snake (Rayquaza-Mega) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Fake Out
- Moongeist Beam
- Boomburst
- Extreme Speed

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Core Enforcer
- Judgment

bird (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
- Anchor Shot
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Disable

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Psycho Boost
- Fleur Cannon
- Extreme Speed
- Fake Out

guy (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Oblivion Wing
- Moongeist Beam

what do you guys think? looking to push into 1500 and any reccomendations help
 
Quick one-over on just the sets...

Xerneas: Seems pretty standard. I'd probably suggest Modest or a defensive nature over Timid since you're running Quiver Dance and, being a Spore + Poison Heal set, will usually get multiple Q.Dances up if you've taken care of your checks and counters first.

Rayquaza: Moves like Earth Power, V-Create, Precipice Blades, and similar are generally preferred over Moongeist on a mixed Aerilate set. Moon is good for Shedinja but... Ray can't switch in on Shedinja anyways and loses if its Focus Sash.

Gengar: Way too fast of a Pokemon to make good use of Core Enforcer. The stuff that naturally outspeeds it are either rare (like Manectric) or typically OHKO (Mewtwo-both). Shell Smash ensures you'll pretty much never remove abilities. Smash also makes Prankster fairly redundant. I'd recommend opting for a Normalize or Mold Breaker Gengar, the latter of which can handle your Shedinja problems.

Chansey: Imposter, so not much to say.

Mewtwo-Y: Mewtwo's unboosted Fakespeed is, I'll be blunt, pretty pathetic, and you're stopped pretty hard by Steel types, especially the uncommon Unaware Steel types. If you wanna do Contrary, V-Create is practically a must. Not entirely, but almost. I'd ditch Fakespeed and pick up some combination of another Contrary move (V-Create or special attack move like Overheat), a coverage move, and/or a utility move like Taunt or, since you have Goggles, Spore.

Mewtwo-X: This set is... uhhh... I can't really think of anything good here, to be fully honest. Mixed Skill Link with no STAB just seems... bad. This set just needs to be scrapped entirely and either made into a different Xtwo set, a different Skill Link set, or a different Pokemon altogether. If you opt for Skill Link though, Kyu-B is probably your most viable option with a set along these lines....

Kyurem Black @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bullet Seed / Sunsteel Strike / U-turn
- Shift Gear / Shell Smash / King's Shield



Overall, there's some major problems on your team. Here's what I can tell without doing an offensive or defensive type coverage analysis or playing it myself...

-Imposter-weak. Other than Xerneas, Imposter can come in and wreck your team with relative reliability. Gengar can be Spored and then bopped with Core Enforcer to prevent it from priority sleeping opposing Chansey. Your Fakespeed doesn't do enough damage to stop Imposters of move of your sets. If Imposter beats your Mewtwo-Y after it's obtain some boosts, it's pretty much good game for you.

-Shedinja-weak. Your only option is Moongeist on Mewtwo X and Rayquaza, neither of which can switch into Shedinja and lose 1 v 1 to Focus Sash variants. Recycle Focus Sash can defeat your whole team if played well. Gengar can't beat Sturdy Shedinja, just annoy it unless Shedinja is running Spectral Thief, in which case Shedinja wins eventually. Endeavorless sets don't threaten you directly, but they wall you near endlessly.

-Hazard-weak. You have no way to set hazards or remove them and your only option to stop them from getting up is offensive presence. If a balanced or stall team manages to set Rocks against you and then stop your momentum, they can pretty much just wear you down with hazards with proper play.

-Anti-Imposter weak. If something like Dazzling Gengar gets going on you, you lose. There's several other anti-Imposter sets and cores which can set-up and then sweep the rest of your team too if they get the opportunity. Ray's Fakespeed helps with this, but doesn't answer bulky set-up very well, such as Shift Gear Posion Heal Regigas.

-Team synergy. Nobody really seems to cover anyone much, offensively or defensively. Xerneas dealing with other Dragons for Ray and Dark-types for half your team is the best point. But nothing covers Xerneas' Steel-weakness other than Xern's Earth Power, which most Steels can tank if Xern isn't set-up well while Celesteela doesn't give a crap and Ferrothorn doesn't care too much. Granted, I don't do offense heavy teams super well, since I know you can get pretty far ignoring synergy and overwhelming your opponent with six Mewtwos or something, but I find a team that's able to check and counter each other's threats works much better.

Example of synergy: Yveltal and Solgaleo make good partners both offensively and defensively. Yveltal cover's Solgaleo's weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, and Ground and can force out or defeat Ghost-types trying to take advantage of Solgaleo. Solgaleo, meanwhile, can take Ice, Rock, and Fairy attacks for Yveltal and can defeat all three types with its Steel-type moves. It's not a perfect duo, however, since Solgaleo's Fire weakness and Yveltal's Electric weakness are uncovered, but it's certainly one of the stronger pairings out there and both of them can be covered easily by a third partner, such as Giratina, Zygarde, or Primal Groudon.
 
Quick one-over on just the sets...

Xerneas: Seems pretty standard. I'd probably suggest Modest or a defensive nature over Timid since you're running Quiver Dance and, being a Spore + Poison Heal set, will usually get multiple Q.Dances up if you've taken care of your checks and counters first.

Rayquaza: Moves like Earth Power, V-Create, Precipice Blades, and similar are generally preferred over Moongeist on a mixed Aerilate set. Moon is good for Shedinja but... Ray can't switch in on Shedinja anyways and loses if its Focus Sash.

Gengar: Way too fast of a Pokemon to make good use of Core Enforcer. The stuff that naturally outspeeds it are either rare (like Manectric) or typically OHKO (Mewtwo-both). Shell Smash ensures you'll pretty much never remove abilities. Smash also makes Prankster fairly redundant. I'd recommend opting for a Normalize or Mold Breaker Gengar, the latter of which can handle your Shedinja problems.

Chansey: Imposter, so not much to say.

Mewtwo-Y: Mewtwo's unboosted Fakespeed is, I'll be blunt, pretty pathetic, and you're stopped pretty hard by Steel types, especially the uncommon Unaware Steel types. If you wanna do Contrary, V-Create is practically a must. Not entirely, but almost. I'd ditch Fakespeed and pick up some combination of another Contrary move (V-Create or special attack move like Overheat), a coverage move, and/or a utility move like Taunt or, since you have Goggles, Spore.

Mewtwo-X: This set is... uhhh... I can't really think of anything good here, to be fully honest. Mixed Skill Link with no STAB just seems... bad. This set just needs to be scrapped entirely and either made into a different Xtwo set, a different Skill Link set, or a different Pokemon altogether. If you opt for Skill Link though, Kyu-B is probably your most viable option with a set along these lines....

Kyurem Black @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Bullet Seed / Sunsteel Strike / U-turn
- Shift Gear / Shell Smash / King's Shield



Overall, there's some major problems on your team. Here's what I can tell without doing an offensive or defensive type coverage analysis or playing it myself...

-Imposter-weak. Other than Xerneas, Imposter can come in and wreck your team with relative reliability. Gengar can be Spored and then bopped with Core Enforcer to prevent it from priority sleeping opposing Chansey. Your Fakespeed doesn't do enough damage to stop Imposters of move of your sets. If Imposter beats your Mewtwo-Y after it's obtain some boosts, it's pretty much good game for you.

-Shedinja-weak. Your only option is Moongeist on Mewtwo X and Rayquaza, neither of which can switch into Shedinja and lose 1 v 1 to Focus Sash variants. Recycle Focus Sash can defeat your whole team if played well. Gengar can't beat Sturdy Shedinja, just annoy it unless Shedinja is running Spectral Thief, in which case Shedinja wins eventually. Endeavorless sets don't threaten you directly, but they wall you near endlessly.

-Hazard-weak. You have no way to set hazards or remove them and your only option to stop them from getting up is offensive presence. If a balanced or stall team manages to set Rocks against you and then stop your momentum, they can pretty much just wear you down with hazards with proper play.

-Anti-Imposter weak. If something like Dazzling Gengar gets going on you, you lose. There's several other anti-Imposter sets and cores which can set-up and then sweep the rest of your team too if they get the opportunity. Ray's Fakespeed helps with this, but doesn't answer bulky set-up very well, such as Shift Gear Posion Heal Regigas.

-Team synergy. Nobody really seems to cover anyone much, offensively or defensively. Xerneas dealing with other Dragons for Ray and Dark-types for half your team is the best point. But nothing covers Xerneas' Steel-weakness other than Xern's Earth Power, which most Steels can tank if Xern isn't set-up well while Celesteela doesn't give a crap and Ferrothorn doesn't care too much. Granted, I don't do offense heavy teams super well, since I know you can get pretty far ignoring synergy and overwhelming your opponent with six Mewtwos or something, but I find a team that's able to check and counter each other's threats works much better.

Example of synergy: Yveltal and Solgaleo make good partners both offensively and defensively. Yveltal cover's Solgaleo's weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, and Ground and can force out or defeat Ghost-types trying to take advantage of Solgaleo. Solgaleo, meanwhile, can take Ice, Rock, and Fairy attacks for Yveltal and can defeat all three types with its Steel-type moves. It's not a perfect duo, however, since Solgaleo's Fire weakness and Yveltal's Electric weakness are uncovered, but it's certainly one of the stronger pairings out there and both of them can be covered easily by a third partner, such as Giratina, Zygarde, or Primal Groudon.
do u know where I would be able to find sets for anyone of the pokes u suggested or information on what to run with them
 
do u know where I would be able to find sets for anyone of the pokes u suggested or information on what to run with them
Try Balanced Hackmons Central Resources. Every link in the "Index" on the first post can be useful, though I'd recommend VR, Role Compendium, and Setpedia. Sample teams under "Other Links" can also be handy, even the old outdated teams. You could also go to the Rate My Team sub-forum and search for people's teams there as the good ones will explain what they're using, how they're using it, and why they're using it. I have two detailed RMTs in my signature that are out-dated and no longer legal, but might be handy.


For team synergy and cores, we sadly do not have an up to date resource for that. For figuring out offensive coverage, I personally like this tool, although it is a general tool so you kinda have to manually sift through it to compare to Pokemon actually used in the meta. Defensive synergy I usually work out on paper since I've not found a good tool for it. You could go to main Smogon Strategy Dex and look up some Pokemon in Gen VI, such as Kyurem-Black and Kyogre, as a few had actual analysis written and added to the site in that generation. The information on the sets and stuff will largely be way out of date, but the team options section is a better start than none on figuring out how to pair some of BH's Pokemon up.


In the end though, unless you have someone looking over your shoulder constantly, it's gonna be a lot of trial and error to learn proper team building, regardless of the meta. I would focus more on building and improving teams right now rather than your ELO. The wins will come with practice and experience. Plus you'll likely have more fun, or at the very least be more relaxed, if you're not stressing about your rating.

And also always remember that you'll lose to random junk teams from time to time. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying through their teeth.
 

pazza

Banned deucer.
hey so I'm new to BH what Kartana set is that?
Here are the most used and good ones imo

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
- V-create
- Power Whip

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Belly Drum
- Sacred Fire
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
hey so I'm new to BH what Kartana set is that?
I’m assuming Steelworker, because Bullet Punch, a priority move, would have been stopped by Priority.
#MysterySolved ;)

Unless, he meant Triage:

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry/Normalium-Z
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Horn Leech
- Belly Drum
- Drain Punch

This one is extremely powerful.
Here are the most used and good ones imo

Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
- V-create
- Power Whip

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Power Whip
- Belly Drum
- Sacred Fire
With Sacred Fire being blocked by Flash Fire would Close Combat (or for Aegislash - Precipice Blades) be more safe to use? Flash Fire Solgaleo/Registeel/Doublade/Aegislash/Kartana and Unaware/Fur Coat Dialga can survive it.
Calculations:
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 379-447 (79.2 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252 Atk Solgaleo Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 266-314 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Sitrus and Belly Drum leaves Kartana at 75%
———
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 336-396 (84.4 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 294-347 (91.3 - 107.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
———
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 301-354 (93.4 - 109.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

Opposing Flash Fire Kartana
252 Atk Kartana Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 220-260 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Adamant Foash Fire
252+ Atk Kartana Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 242-286 (75.1 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO against opposing Belly Drum and Sitrus Berry Kartana
———
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 297-351 (81.5 - 96.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
———
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 297-351 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+6 252 Atk Aegislash-Shield Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 213-252 (66.1 - 78.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO After Belly Drum and Sitrus Berry at 75% HP
————
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 292-344 (72.2 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Kartana Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Dialga: 390-459 (96.5 - 113.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (if Dialga is Unaware then it’s not even close)

Fears the below:

+6 252 Atk Dialga Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 242-285 (75.1 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 1HKO After Sitrus Berry and Belly Drum

If it packs Fur Coat, Precipice Blades/Close Combat will be the only way to surefire KO it.

+6 252+ Atk Kartana Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Dialga: 468-552 (115.8 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
———
+6 252+ Atk Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 199-234 (61.8 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Kartana Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Doublade: 266-314 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252 Atk Doublade Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kartana: 342-403 (106.2 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Thousand Arrows also handles Ho-Oh, and Primordial Sea Celesteelia.
 
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Kartana @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Bullet Punch
- V-create
Stealth Rock / U-Turn / Power Whip

It's a variation on the steelworker set which wallbreaks better against balance but has a harder time with more offense minded teams. With tinted lens nothing but extremely physical bulky walls that take neutral can avoid the 2hKO from sunsteel, which is limited to basically Giratina and Zygarde-C:
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 219-258 (34.4 - 40.5%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 220-259 (43.7 - 51.4%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO

Steel walls cannot switch in:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Solgaleo: 236-280 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So why run v-create? To hit targets that resist it of course. Also it can hit Imposter users if you expect them to switch into you, . V-create does 41-48% to zygarde-C which can 2hKO with a bit of chip damage. It 2hKOs giratina as well:
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Kartana V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 262-310 (52 - 61.6%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal

unlesss Giratina is running Fur Coat, when Sunsteel kills it after chip because it has to run Safety Goggles and not Leftovers.

Kartana is also a competent rocker/spiker, since it forces out common bouncers such as Audino-mega, Yveltal, and Registeel, all of which it threatens with a sunsteel on the switch. If you don't need hazard support, the best additional move for it is probably u-turn which can chip down switchins, though that allows imposters to take advantage of you better to gain their own momentum. Alternatively Power Whip is a strong STAB, but it doesn't hit anything harder than Sunsteel does besides bulky waters, and the extra damage is usually inconsequential because none of them can avoid a 2hKO from Sunsteel anyway (Kyogre-P takes 72% from Sunsteel).
The exception to this is Slowbro-mega:
252+ Atk Choice Band Kartana Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Now that I have been resurrected I would just like to take this time to say that Kartana is the best mon to use in BH especially now that Psychic Suge has been banned. Use Kartana and you will win battles
False, illusion MMX is the best Pokémon right now because no one knows how to really fight illusion and I doubt anyone other than volk and maybe a few other people looked at my post in the suspect thread
 
False, illusion MMX is the best Pokémon right now because no one knows how to really fight illusion and I doubt anyone other than volk and maybe a few other people looked at my post in the suspect thread
What makes you say this? You don't need to be that clever to know you can use tools like Imposter, Protect, Fake Out, Regen, etc. to scout. Then, once it has a HP difference compared to the disguised Pokemon, rocks go up (since it resists Rock, you're going consistently need a Rock-resists in the back which, imo, is unreasonable) or it gets statused you're not fooling anybody. Versus a competent opponent you're not going to get very many opportunities to fool them into making a significant mistake, in which case substitute abilities would be better.
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Just Peaked at 1674

Illusion is 1x use on the best threats that use it (form change), and it's easier to pick off the Illusionist once you hit it if it doesnt use a form change. I like Skill Link Pheromosa to break the Illusionist since it has lots of coverage options. I like Illusion with Kanga for Nature's Madness and Parental Bond shenanigans.
 

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What makes you say this? You don't need to be that clever to know you can use tools like Imposter, Protect, Fake Out, Regen, etc. to scout. Then, once it has a HP difference compared to the disguised Pokemon, rocks go up (since it resists Rock, you're going consistently need a Rock-resists in the back which, imo, is unreasonable) or it gets statused you're not fooling anybody. Versus a competent opponent you're not going to get very many opportunities to fool them into making a significant mistake, in which case substitute abilities would be better.
Imposter doesn't really mean much to illusion mmx unless it's the very first turn since you can just close combat and kill in every other scenario.
Not many people use protect moves so that's not too big of an issue.
If you're disguised as an offensive Pokémon then you can easily get away with swapping out on fake out users.
Most status in bh is either rng or conditional like toxic spikes and beak blast which can all be played around.
Hazards don't ruin it that much if you let your team take some weak U-turn damage and confuse them by using different Pokémon to disguise as since it changes throughout the battle.
A competent player can give illusion a hard time, but not every move they make will be competent and illusion capitalizes on that very heavily and much more often as your job when you use illusion isn't to get kills but to always keep your opponent guesing.
The way you use illusion changes based on what you're opponent does and what you need to get rid of.
P.s. I guess I was right when I said that almost no one read my post in the suspect thread since I had already mentioned most of what you said lol
 
Imposter doesn't really mean much to illusion mmx unless it's the very first turn since you can just close combat and kill in every other scenario.
Not many people use protect moves so that's not too big of an issue.
If you're disguised as an offensive Pokémon then you can easily get away with swapping out on fake out users.
Most status in bh is either rng or conditional like toxic spikes and beak blast which can all be played around.
Hazards don't ruin it that much if you let your team take some weak U-turn damage and confuse them by using different Pokémon to disguise as since it changes throughout the battle.
A competent player can give illusion a hard time, but not every move they make will be competent and illusion capitalizes on that very heavily and much more often as your job when you use illusion isn't to get kills but to always keep your opponent guesing.
The way you use illusion changes based on what you're opponent does and what you need to get rid of.
P.s. I guess I was right when I said that almost no one read my post in the suspect thread since I had already mentioned most of what you said lol
This is some awful logic... All I wanted was clarification as to why you thought Illusion MMX is the best Pokemon... Instead I got this nonsense. Hazards don't ruin Illusion because you can just tank a U-turn? That'd require a U-turn that deals exactly the same amount entry hazards do (which mostly is totally out of one's control) which vary depending on the type of hazard, and then you'd need to keep the chipped Pokemon in the back, not recover its health or allow it to take damage. On top of that, it's required to also resist Stealth Rock to match MMX... Are you even aware of how restrictive and totally unreasonable this is? What happens when the U-turn roll doesn't go in your favor? Are you just going to magically take 2% less damage to satisfy the HP requirement? Please. Then there's the "ahh just outplay viable & common means of counterplay" argument, as if outplaying a competent opponent is a requirement. "Not every move a competent opponent makes will be competent"? Where do you get off making assumptions like this? Hopefully our readers don't have to ask why this is terrible logic. You claim Illusion's purpose is to keep the opponent guessing, when in actuality the tools I mentioned in my initial post all can be used to confirm the Illusion Pokemon's identity, removing the need for guesswork? RNG can be played around? Give me a break. Avoiding Poison Fang's poison or Scald's burn is not something you can just "plan". Once it lands, what now? Status removal / prevention is uncommon, even despite my and a few users' recent usage of Misty Surge and Comatose (Facts don't lie).

After having the displeasure of reading that I'm going to go ahead and use this opportunity to remind our readers to include replays, or some other form of evidence, in your posts if you want to prove what you say is actually true, especially if it concerns supposedly the best Pokemon in the metagame.
 

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