Ban me plz...
A RMT
by myzozoa
A RMT
by myzozoa
I'm making this thread as a rmt because idk what the rules are for posting in the OU forums and cba to find out. Basically my hope is that this thread will raise awareness and help other users to question the presence of certain broken pokemon in the OU metagame. I'll be focusing on the overpowered attributes of greninja-ash with this thread, but I also hope to suggest to readers that Tapu Koko, and Drizzle, are also broken in the metagame. I will further argue that even if Greninja ash is banned, rain is still broken due to the presence of pokemon like Keldeo, Tornadus-t, tapu koko, and swampert-mega.
For my arguments to make any sense, I need to explain somethings about me first, I might sound egotistical at times, but this is smogon.
I have beaten many of the most successful players, through luck, in tournament finals. So while I'm really trash, it's true, and I admit it, I'm really good at being trash and so you should listen to me when I tell you how I'm going to trash my way to beating you. I use a tried and true method: use the most broken things you can find in the metagame so that your opponent can't counter play. When I have played tournament battles, I have often felt like I was playing an elaborate solitaire. Basically, I try not to actually 'play' my opponents, but really against luck and myself. By using pokemon or combinations of pokemon that are so over powered that they restrict counterplay, I negate my opponents' skill advantage. There will always be more and less overpowering pokemon, but when a team style has become uncounterable as rain offense has in SM OU, I think bans need to be made for the sake of producing a metagame that advantages skilled battlers. I've played SM with other teams but they don't even come close to how winning this one is. Greninja ash significantly reduces any skill involved in matches against offensive teams, and stall in SM remains so bad that I won't even start to mention it in this thread.
This rmt is peak trash, everyone knows the team I'm presenting, it isn't mine although my version might look slightly different than some.
Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Defog
- Roost
To start off we have our drizzle user, Pelipper. The set forgoes U-turn for Defog. The EVs max Pelipper's defensive stats allowing it to be a revenge killer for Hawlucha (the only common pokemon that outspeeds Mega Swampert). This team handles a variety of situations and threats using Pelipper, as it is the only ground immune and it has substantial physical bulk+reliable recovery. Scald and hurricane are both needed. Hurricane is one of the best attacks in the game in the rain because of the 30% confusion chance. Although Pelipper isn't that strong it actually does a lot of damage and creates a lot of good tempo control through forcing switches, Defogging, Scald burns and Hurricane confusions. It turns out to be one of the most difficult pokemon in the tier to switch into, and versions of this team that remove hazards through another pokemon can use U-turn instead of Defog to turn pelipper into a slow U-turner. A big threat to rain is Pelipper getting hit by Knock Off and losing its item, but Pelipper easily switches out of most difficult situations with U-turn and the support of Ferrothorn and Mega Swampert. Its amazing stabs force a lot of switches. In the whole metagame, only Tapu Fini really feels comfortable coming in on Scald or Hurricane. Pelipper is an amazing asset for drizzle teams, far better than Politoed, which lacks reliable recovery and Pelipper's crucial fighting resist to pair with Ferrothorn. Pelipper has a 4x weakness to electric, a 2x weakness to rock and another 4x weakness to Ninetales-alola's Freeze Dry. Electric and Rock type attacks are easily handled by this team, which can choose between Ferrothorn and Swampert (defense and offense respectively) to handle these types of attacks. Ninetales-Alola is the only weather user in OU that really has an advantage against Pelipper, although if Tyranitar can avoid scald burns it can pressure a Stone Edge vs Pursuit situation against a Pelipper that finds itself on the field against a Tyranitar with Sandstorm raging. What I mean to point out by mentioning Tyranitar and Ninetales-Alola is that it is very difficult for opposing weather to keep itself up against pelipper. Even teams that run Tyranitar+Charizard Y are at a disadvantage because Tyranitar doesn't want to switch into Scald and Pelipper easily switches into Charizard-Y even without special defensive investment. The worst weather package match-ups for this team are Tyranitar+Hippowdon that runs toxic, and Ninetales-alola+Mega Tyranitar. Tyranitar+Tapu Fini can also be very difficult, but those teams sometimes have trouble with Ferrothorn because they overplay against it in my experience (taunting into power whip inspite of the need to preserve Fini for Greninja).
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Ice Punch
- Waterfall
When I play with this team on the ladder I just run 4 attacks on Mega Swampert. 2hkos or 1hkos the entire metagame. No safe switch ins and causes tears for anyone who tries to recover-stall out my Drizzle in the face of Waterfall flinches. This guy is a murderer with 1 layer of Spikes and SR up against the opponent. Not much to say, I think it is the strongest mega, mainly because of the unbelievable offensive presence it provides while also being immune to electric and having no weaknesses besides 4x grass and 4x Ninetales-alola Freeze-dry. It has plenty of bulk with no investment. Superpower is the move for crippling opposing ferrothorn. Waterfall has a 30% flinch chance and you move faster than the entire tier besides Hawlucha, also it's boosted by rain. Does anything switch in on this bitch in the rain? Comment in the thread!
Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Water Shuriken
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
Greninja is the mvp of this team. It's pretty hard not find a moment to get Greninja in to get a kill during the course of a match, it should happen naturally in the endgame, perhaps even at the very beginning against teams that lack an answer to rain boosted Hydro Pump. Spikes helps Greninja ensure it can get a kill by making it harder to switch into for counters like Toxapex, it also helps the whole team regardless. Water Shuriken cleans late game, and will even ko weakened Kartana fairly easily after battle bond with rain up. Dark pulse is another move that flinches and provides excellent coverage. Basically I think there is no good way of dealing with greninja ash (aside from cb Extreme Speed Zygarde and a lot of hazards) in the metagame. We can't all run Chansey and even if we do you still have to outplay double switches when hazards are up, and possibly not get Dark Pulse flinched. It is really easy to get a ko with Greninja in the rain and once you do, only a few uncommon mega pokemon and scarf pokemon can outspeed you. Of those, if any are weakened they die to Water Shuriken before they can hit Greninja. Even before it changes form it still outspeeds most of the tier, leaving them vulnerable to Dark Pulse flinch in every situation. Water Shuriken will also deal with Hawlucha reliably for this team.
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 236 HP / 8 Atk / 68 Def / 188 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
The evs allow you to outspeed Sableye. Power whip does max damage against Tapu Fini that stay in to Taunt. Knock Off is good against Marowak-alola and can be used to mess with a variety of common misplays that ppl make against Ferrothorn. Protect is way better than knock off overall and should always be preferred, but in the mirror match (against opposing rain) knock off is slightly better. Ferrothorn's fire weakness is reduced in the rain and it's fighting weakness is covered by two pokemon with reliable recovery (Pelipper and Tapu Koko).
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Thunder
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
Because I'm running rain I can forgo a specs or physical electricium-z set and use life orb-roost special attacker. U-turn allows Koko to be a reliable lead against teams with opposing weather. Dazzling gleam is chosen over HP ice because it is a back-up accurate stab when rain isn't present to ensure thunder hits. It is also super effective against Tyranitar which is relevant. Tapu Koko is a great pokemon in the early game where it tears into teams with it's best non-mega speed stat in OU and it's electric attacks boosted by it's ability. U-turn gets the drop on Chansey and electric resists so that you get something threatening in that they can't heal against. Slowly you break them down. I usually use Roost about once a match with this guy, when you know your opponent has to switch out of Tapu Koko you can use roost to preserve it's hp for the lategame. This particular Tapu Koko set isn't that broken compared to wild charge Electricium z, but it still examplifies the qualities of Tapu Koko as a pokemon that opens up holes in opponents' teams with it's power and tempo control (u-turn/roost). Electric terrain gives sleep immunity and boosts T-bolt for Magearna, and most importantly clears out psychic terrain so that Greninja can always use water Shuriken.
Magearna @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 64 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shift Gear
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Normally Koko would get the z-move and Magearna would be assault vest, but I'm running Shift Gear+Focus Blast to kill opposing Ferrothorn since it is really the only pokemon that really troubles this team besides Tapu-Lele, which is what people usually run assault vest on Magearna for with this team. I don't really care if I use the best set, because this team is so broken I will probably win anyway. I do run max hp to keep some bulk on it. This set focuses on Magearna's ability to clean with shift gear and soul-heart. Flash/Fleur cannon to replace icebeam is a good idea for a substitution. Magearna is a second another grass resist and an answer to Tapu Bulu which can otherwise trouble this team.
Summary:
This team combines Greninja Ash and Swampert with a bunch of strong support pokemon. Swampert usually works in the early game to kill or cripple pokemon that can answer greninja, like Ferrothorn, tapu fini, etc. I will usually sacrifice swampert to weaken these pokemon, especially if greninja is sure to evolve or has already evolved, because after battle bond, water shuriken will revenge kill most offense pokemon in the rain so Swampert is no longer even needed.
Speculation and Arguments:
Greninja
This pokemon has amazing utility, hazards, priority, mixed attacking and a ton of speed. People would do well to remember it was not long ago that Protean greninja was deemed too powerful. And even protean greninja sets will sometimes run dark or water type moves, Water-Dark coverage is sufficient coverage in Greninja's stabs alone. Further, it sets spikes on its free turns, which very few pokemon in it's class can do (tornadus-t and tapu koko for example are unable to do this, for example, although Tapu Koko does provide an amazing field effect for 5 turns). It even has u-turn to always get momentum off of switches it forces. It has more utility than any pokemon in the tier and is a mindless late game cleaner that requires little skill to pull off and affords little counterplay for opponents.
Pelipper/Drizzle/Hurricane
As you can see the portion of the rmt that descibes Pelipper is focused on how other weathers match-up against drizzle. In this metagame it is common for teams to run multiple non-drizzle auto-weather ability pokemon such as Mega Charizard-Y, Tyranitar, Mega-Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Ninetales-Alola. However, even these teams usually struggle with Pelipper and strong fast water pokemon, of which Greninja is only one and could be easily replaced by Keldeo, for example, without diminishing rain offenses' dominance in the metagame. Strong hurricane users aren't that good in the metagame that is dominated by faster Tapu Koko and faster Greninja, and hurricane users also compete with greninja/ other water pokemon for slots on this team. However, if Greninja were banned I'm sure Tornadus-t would find it's way into some of the rain offense builds that would remain dominant. Hurricane with 100% accuracy in the rain is one of the most abusable moves statistically (i.e difficult to switch into). If Pelipper were banned, I find it even more likely that builds that combine politoed and tornadus-t could still be strong in the metagame. Pelipper doesn't seem overpowered by itself, but in the context of the meta it enables defensive and offensive combinations that no other way of building teams can hope to match, rain can beat even teams that seem to match-up well against it with intelligent counterplay and control of momentum, but teams that match-up poorly against rain have little recourse to meaningful counter play.
Tapu Koko
You probably can't tell but Tapu Koko is actually compensating for something, actually a large part of the metagame that is dominated by things that happen to be very broken, but are kept in check by how dangerous tapu koko is to them. To be sure, Tapu Koko is doing important work in keeping pokemon a game of skill, like ferrothorn it checks or counters a number of very overpowering pokemon/combinations/strategies in the tier. The 'issue' with Tapu Koko is that its presence has mitigated a lot of strategies and combinations that would otherwise present as pretty broken and so we have a metagame where the only reliable team is rain offense and everything else pales in comparison because choosing not to use rain offense means randomly autolosing to certain threats in a metagame that just has too much powerful stuff.
I hope you will try this team and think about what I've suggested. Please ask any questions or leave any comments you have in the thread.
