Now Updated! Changes made to Vaporeon, Scizor, Ninjask and Lucario. Removed Metagross completely. Updates will be in bold blue.
Been lurking around Smogon and reading articles for a while, and recently just started trying to create my own team after mixing and matching different Analysis Sets to make 'teams'. My apologies in advance if i've made some error, it's my first RMT and i'd like any advice i could get.
There were only two goals to this team: Beat Blissey in OU, and don’t use pinch berries. I can’t stand using Salac, Petaya, etc; I don’t like being that low in health to be at risk of being revenge killed. That meant only one thing: Use physically based pokemon, and Swords Dance like there’s no tomorrow!
Okay, there's a third goal i should've mention the first time round: I don't like long chains. This team is meant to streamline the Baton Pass chain down to the simplest possible form, and hopefully the shortest, time-wise. That's not to say i won't Ingrain, but i'm ruling out boosting the special side, so that I can set up Lucario as quick as possible. Attack and Speed Boosts are the main priority. Sorry i didn't mention this earlier. If anyone cares to prove (with evidence!) that this is a bad concept, go for it. I'm open to changes.
At a glance:
Team Building:
Ninjask. I’d thought about a Lead version, but suicide leads are too prevalent, so I relegated this and found a new lead.
Smeargle. What else do i have to say? It's Baton Pass, and Smeargle is a necessity. I can't believe i forgot that when first building this team...
I chose Lucario next for its resist to Stealth Rock, immunity to Sandstorm and immunity to Poison, to try and make up for anything that slipped by Metagross. It was a bit too frail, though, and I threw in a wall for good measure after it.
Vaporeon I just stole off the analysis page, it seemed a good wall, and acted as my Substitute user. I figured I’d use the sub to let other pokemon set up some defenses.
In came Scizor for the Defense boosts, and the chain was basically done. I wanted to make the last pokemon specially based, though, for safety’s sake in case I ever needed it.
Jolteon: Originally Zapdos, but I played around with the team and found I needed an Electric pokemon that was immune to electric itself and faster than Starmie (which almost swept the team when Zapdos was still around).
In Depth:
Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/6 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
---
Lead, due to popular demand. The first three moves really the most obvious Ninjask moveset that needs little explanation. In most cases, though, I can get a Swords Dance up quickly while my opponent switches to an appropriate counter, thanks to Metagross exploding. I run X-Scissor as the final move on this set for fear of Taunt, so that I still have something to attack with. The original moveset used Substitute instead, but it turned out that my Focus Sash was just too valuable.
Smeargle (M) @ Shed Shell
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 252 Spd / 40 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ingrain
- Spore
- Spider Web
- Baton Pass
Well, does this one need clarification? Smeargle, trapper and sleep inducer, as suggested by NitroMetalHead (thanks a lot!) Shed Shell just in case of Taunt, rest is self explanatory.
Scizor (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/88 Atk/172 Spd/2 SDef (these are changed, can't recall off the top of my head, gimme a sec)
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense
---
By popular demand, now it's job is as a Ninjask stunt double, hence the bulkier spread and inclusion of Swords Dance. Bullet punch can also be useful for when I have a good chain going, to act as a revenge killer. It also served as my revenge killer against Tyranitar for a time, though in hindsight that probably wasn’t the best role for it.
Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 128 HP/252 Def/128 Spd
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Aqua Ring
- Waterfall
---
The obligatory wall, I chose to use Vaporeon for the >101 HP substitutes. Aqua Ring + Leftovers allows for more survivability, and helps to alleviate the LO recoil my Lucario racks up during its final sweep. I originally used Surf for the extra Base Power, though it didn’t take long to realize my mistake, what with Ninjask’s Swords Dances adding to Waterfall’s power. Please, nobody tell me to use Surf + Calm nature. I know of Surf's higher BP, and Vaporeon's higher SpA, but that means nothing when my team is focused on Swords Dance passing! Waterfall gets the boost from Swords Dance, and that's enough to beat Surf any day. Wish is still an option, but again, for the sake of saving time, i've opted for Waterfall, as i'm not passing Special Defense boosts much anyways.
Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/6 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
---
The one major change this team has had so far has been with Jolteon. Originally I went with a Zapdos, who carried my one and only fire attack, Heat Wave. Unfortunately, that left my team in a bad position against Starmie’s Electric/Ice/Water attacks, the worst of which against Vaporeon. Conveniently, that means my Vaporeon can act as a lure for electric attacks, to which my Jolteon can hopefully absorb. I do lose the fire attack on this team, but BoltBeam provides enough coverage to make up for the loss. Um, yeah. What can i say, i know most people hate this guy, but i personally find he is very useful for this team's intended play style. I find that Lucario acts more as a Mid-Game Sweeper due to the relatively short chain, and if Aqua Ring and Ingrain aren't both up to null LO Recoil, he has a habit of dying. Jolteon fits the bill for killing whatever's left, needing no boosts, and a nice surprise to anyone who sends in their physical wall, expecting my team to be all Physical. Substitute is useless, that i agree, Vaporeon is much better for that. Why i have it, i don't know. Someone tell me what to change that into. Baton pass is there just in case he does become part of the chain (which admittedly is only when i need an electric attack real bad, not likely). Again, that's up for changing too, if you guys think it'd help.
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EV's: 252 Atk/252 Spd/6 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Extremespeed
---
Moves are purely for coverage and priority, and Life Orb for extra damage as this guy shouldn’t stick around too long anyways. The only issue I’ve had is that it’s my most reliable TTar counter (most of the time behind Vaporeon’s Sub when it switches in), which can mean it’s revealed too early in game, and leaves it too weak from LO Recoil to receive the boosts later. Now with Ice punch to make it totally Physical. I should mention he's meant to be out relatively fast, not really caring much for Defense boosts, just seeking to cause as much havoc as possible before dying and leaving the rest to Jolteon (hopefully after destroying all the special walls).
Final Thoughts:
Scizor. If anything needs to be changed, that definitely the pokemon that’s becoming a deadweight too often, and considering my TTar problems, I’m thinking I need some way to make him into a more reliable attacker, while keeping Iron Defense.
Other than that, after the change to Jolteon I’ve had some success with this team, the surprise factor really helps get free turns to set up. On the off chance I encounter another Baton Pass team (or the move I dread, Power Swap), I do find my team isn’t as fast at setting up as some others, but most of the time it does pretty well and I’m quite happy with it so far.
Scizor is good now. Bulkier and with Swords Dance helps a lot if something goes wrong early. Other than that, i expect a lot of raging about Jolteon and why he's there, etc. Thanks to everyone, this update is with all the help from everyone up to and including post #19.
Threats List:
Skarmory (Physical Wall stops my team really fast if I haven’t set up yet, though after +2 attack I can handle it a bit easier. Would be better if I still had Heat Wave, but alas, I don’t.)
Tyranitar (I am still looking for a good way to stop this thing, without resorting to Lucario. Admittedly Luke does a great job of destroying this guy, but it switches out whenever it see Lucario, meaning I take LO Recoil and usually don’t even scratch TTar.) For Clarification: Only LeadTar and other early game TTar's hurt. Luke kills any other TTar easily.
Azelf (Can't stop SR, and Taunt hurts.)
Gengar (Now less of a threat. Protect to scout it's move and get a Speed Boost, then pass to something who can take Gengar's attacks (or on the odd chance it's choice locked into Shadow Ball, Smeargle gets a free spore on the switch-in).)
Been lurking around Smogon and reading articles for a while, and recently just started trying to create my own team after mixing and matching different Analysis Sets to make 'teams'. My apologies in advance if i've made some error, it's my first RMT and i'd like any advice i could get.
There were only two goals to this team: Beat Blissey in OU, and don’t use pinch berries. I can’t stand using Salac, Petaya, etc; I don’t like being that low in health to be at risk of being revenge killed. That meant only one thing: Use physically based pokemon, and Swords Dance like there’s no tomorrow!
Okay, there's a third goal i should've mention the first time round: I don't like long chains. This team is meant to streamline the Baton Pass chain down to the simplest possible form, and hopefully the shortest, time-wise. That's not to say i won't Ingrain, but i'm ruling out boosting the special side, so that I can set up Lucario as quick as possible. Attack and Speed Boosts are the main priority. Sorry i didn't mention this earlier. If anyone cares to prove (with evidence!) that this is a bad concept, go for it. I'm open to changes.
At a glance:
Team Building:
Ninjask. I’d thought about a Lead version, but suicide leads are too prevalent, so I relegated this and found a new lead.
Smeargle. What else do i have to say? It's Baton Pass, and Smeargle is a necessity. I can't believe i forgot that when first building this team...
I chose Lucario next for its resist to Stealth Rock, immunity to Sandstorm and immunity to Poison, to try and make up for anything that slipped by Metagross. It was a bit too frail, though, and I threw in a wall for good measure after it.
Vaporeon I just stole off the analysis page, it seemed a good wall, and acted as my Substitute user. I figured I’d use the sub to let other pokemon set up some defenses.
In came Scizor for the Defense boosts, and the chain was basically done. I wanted to make the last pokemon specially based, though, for safety’s sake in case I ever needed it.
Jolteon: Originally Zapdos, but I played around with the team and found I needed an Electric pokemon that was immune to electric itself and faster than Starmie (which almost swept the team when Zapdos was still around).
In Depth:
Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 HP/252 Spd/6 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- X-Scissor
---
Lead, due to popular demand. The first three moves really the most obvious Ninjask moveset that needs little explanation. In most cases, though, I can get a Swords Dance up quickly while my opponent switches to an appropriate counter, thanks to Metagross exploding. I run X-Scissor as the final move on this set for fear of Taunt, so that I still have something to attack with. The original moveset used Substitute instead, but it turned out that my Focus Sash was just too valuable.
Smeargle (M) @ Shed Shell
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 96 HP / 120 Def / 252 Spd / 40 SDef
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Ingrain
- Spore
- Spider Web
- Baton Pass
Well, does this one need clarification? Smeargle, trapper and sleep inducer, as suggested by NitroMetalHead (thanks a lot!) Shed Shell just in case of Taunt, rest is self explanatory.
Scizor (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP/88 Atk/172 Spd/2 SDef (these are changed, can't recall off the top of my head, gimme a sec)
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Baton Pass
- Swords Dance
- Iron Defense
---
By popular demand, now it's job is as a Ninjask stunt double, hence the bulkier spread and inclusion of Swords Dance. Bullet punch can also be useful for when I have a good chain going, to act as a revenge killer. It also served as my revenge killer against Tyranitar for a time, though in hindsight that probably wasn’t the best role for it.
Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 128 HP/252 Def/128 Spd
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Baton Pass
- Substitute
- Aqua Ring
- Waterfall
---
The obligatory wall, I chose to use Vaporeon for the >101 HP substitutes. Aqua Ring + Leftovers allows for more survivability, and helps to alleviate the LO recoil my Lucario racks up during its final sweep. I originally used Surf for the extra Base Power, though it didn’t take long to realize my mistake, what with Ninjask’s Swords Dances adding to Waterfall’s power. Please, nobody tell me to use Surf + Calm nature. I know of Surf's higher BP, and Vaporeon's higher SpA, but that means nothing when my team is focused on Swords Dance passing! Waterfall gets the boost from Swords Dance, and that's enough to beat Surf any day. Wish is still an option, but again, for the sake of saving time, i've opted for Waterfall, as i'm not passing Special Defense boosts much anyways.
Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/6 SDef
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
---
The one major change this team has had so far has been with Jolteon. Originally I went with a Zapdos, who carried my one and only fire attack, Heat Wave. Unfortunately, that left my team in a bad position against Starmie’s Electric/Ice/Water attacks, the worst of which against Vaporeon. Conveniently, that means my Vaporeon can act as a lure for electric attacks, to which my Jolteon can hopefully absorb. I do lose the fire attack on this team, but BoltBeam provides enough coverage to make up for the loss. Um, yeah. What can i say, i know most people hate this guy, but i personally find he is very useful for this team's intended play style. I find that Lucario acts more as a Mid-Game Sweeper due to the relatively short chain, and if Aqua Ring and Ingrain aren't both up to null LO Recoil, he has a habit of dying. Jolteon fits the bill for killing whatever's left, needing no boosts, and a nice surprise to anyone who sends in their physical wall, expecting my team to be all Physical. Substitute is useless, that i agree, Vaporeon is much better for that. Why i have it, i don't know. Someone tell me what to change that into. Baton pass is there just in case he does become part of the chain (which admittedly is only when i need an electric attack real bad, not likely). Again, that's up for changing too, if you guys think it'd help.
Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EV's: 252 Atk/252 Spd/6 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Ice Punch
- Extremespeed
---
Moves are purely for coverage and priority, and Life Orb for extra damage as this guy shouldn’t stick around too long anyways. The only issue I’ve had is that it’s my most reliable TTar counter (most of the time behind Vaporeon’s Sub when it switches in), which can mean it’s revealed too early in game, and leaves it too weak from LO Recoil to receive the boosts later. Now with Ice punch to make it totally Physical. I should mention he's meant to be out relatively fast, not really caring much for Defense boosts, just seeking to cause as much havoc as possible before dying and leaving the rest to Jolteon (hopefully after destroying all the special walls).
Final Thoughts:
Scizor. If anything needs to be changed, that definitely the pokemon that’s becoming a deadweight too often, and considering my TTar problems, I’m thinking I need some way to make him into a more reliable attacker, while keeping Iron Defense.
Other than that, after the change to Jolteon I’ve had some success with this team, the surprise factor really helps get free turns to set up. On the off chance I encounter another Baton Pass team (or the move I dread, Power Swap), I do find my team isn’t as fast at setting up as some others, but most of the time it does pretty well and I’m quite happy with it so far.
Scizor is good now. Bulkier and with Swords Dance helps a lot if something goes wrong early. Other than that, i expect a lot of raging about Jolteon and why he's there, etc. Thanks to everyone, this update is with all the help from everyone up to and including post #19.
Threats List:
Skarmory (Physical Wall stops my team really fast if I haven’t set up yet, though after +2 attack I can handle it a bit easier. Would be better if I still had Heat Wave, but alas, I don’t.)
Tyranitar (I am still looking for a good way to stop this thing, without resorting to Lucario. Admittedly Luke does a great job of destroying this guy, but it switches out whenever it see Lucario, meaning I take LO Recoil and usually don’t even scratch TTar.) For Clarification: Only LeadTar and other early game TTar's hurt. Luke kills any other TTar easily.
Azelf (Can't stop SR, and Taunt hurts.)
Gengar (Now less of a threat. Protect to scout it's move and get a Speed Boost, then pass to something who can take Gengar's attacks (or on the odd chance it's choice locked into Shadow Ball, Smeargle gets a free spore on the switch-in).)
