Baton Pass Teams in Gen V

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These ain’t your Grandparents’ BP teams. With Deoxys-S’s return to standard play (with a buffed Magic Coat to boot), incredible new boosting moves to pass like Shell Break, the OU introduction of the prince of Baton Pass himself Mew, and most notably the introduction of team previews, Baton Pass teams are deadlier than ever, and I’m not talking the Ninjask->Vaporean->Mr. Mime long and drawn out BP teams of old. Baton Pass teams in gen V attempt to end the match in as few turns as possible, focusing single-handedly on executing their strategy. The goal here is set up Screens, get in a bulky baton passer like Mew or Gliscor ASAP, get to +4 attack / +2 speed and then hand it off to a non-priority weak pokemon with great coverage that can steamroll the opponent’s team with no resistance.

Part of what makes BP teams so deadly this gen is team preview. With team preview, you can immediately know exactly what your opponent is and is not prepared for. If you see your opponent’s team is loaded with Mach Punch users, you can know to pass to Salamence instead of Lucario. If your opponent has a Skarmory, you might want to pass to Darmanitan rather than Garchomp. With this kind of forethought being possible, Baton Pass teams are able to eliminate some of the risks associated with such an all or nothing strategy.

Let’s take a look at some of the premier candidates for this kind of team:

Dual-Screeners


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Deoxys-S @ Light Clay / Mental Herb
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Taunt
~Stealth Rock/Magic Coat

Deoxys-S is one of the reasons this kind of team is viable. With its blistering speed, decent bulk, and fantastic support movepool, it immediately gives its team the momentum and makes it easier for the BPers to do their dirty work. Stealth Rock is always useful for breaking Focus Sashes and whatnot, but Magic Coat is extremely cool if you are good at predicting and might even nab you some SR anyway. The only real thorn in Deoxys’ side is the existence of Mischevious Heart users, who really prevent him from doing his job. For this reason Mental Herb + Taunt can be used to shut those pokemon down, although the team will miss the 8 turn screens.


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Lati@s @ Light Clay
~Reflect
~Light Screen
~Wish / Memento
~Dragon Pulse / Roar / Safeguard

The Latis also make great dual screen supporters with their high speed and useful typing. They are much slower than Deoxys-E, but they trade that for increased bulk and the ability to actually attack if need be. Wish is Latias exclusive and Memento is Latios exclusive. Both moves are useful – Wish can allow you a second chance to attempt your sweep whereas Memento can help you get in you BPer faster and with no risk.


Baton Passers
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Mew @ Lum Berry / Mental Herb
~Swords Dance / Nasty Plot
~Rock Polish
~Baton Pass
~Taunt / Hypnosis

Mew is really bulky naturally. Mew is really really really bulky behind screens. And it can learn a +2 boosting move in every stat. Throw in Taunt and a sleep inducing move (albeit Hypnosis :/) and you have possibly the best BPer in the game. With screens up, almost nothing can kill mew. The typing is a bit of a drag considering all the TTars and Scizors around, but Mew should be sufficiently bulky enough to survive the only 2-3 turns necessary to boost up and pass. Again, Mental Herb can be used to beat Mischevious Heart users by taunting them as they Taunt you.
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Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
~Swords Dance
~Rock Polish
~Baton Pass
~Taunt / Earthquake

Gliscor’s bulk and typing make it a phenomenal BPer. Also importantly, it has good synergy with Mew, being able to set up in front of Scizor and (Ice Beam-less) Tyranitar. Gliscor can Taunt phazers or can use the boosts himself to ward off unwanted foes with a decently powerful Earthquake.


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Gorebyss @ White Herb
~Shell Break
~Baton Pass
~Surf / Boiling Water
~Ice Beam / HP Grass / Substitute

Gorebyss is special among the BPers because it only takes two turns maximum set up, and its boosts can be appreciated by both physical and special attackers. However, this is at the cost of much less bulk than the first two mentioned BPers (although screens go a long way towards fixing that.) Gorebyss doesn’t really have a great answer to phazers, but it is able to threaten just about anything with its +2 boosted special attacks long enough to get the pass in.

Recipients
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Lucario @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash / Chople Berry
~Close Combat
~Crunch
~Ice Punch
~Extremespeed

Lucario is what I consider to be a prime recipient of +4 Atk / +2 Spd. +4 Close Combat will as far as I know OHKO every pokemon that does not resist it. Between Crunch and Ice Punch Lucario has unresisted coverage. Extremespeed is the real kicker, as it allows Lucario to beat priority users at their own game, meaning it has nothing to fear from the slew of Mach Punch users in OU. Notably, all of Lucario’s moves have 100% accuracy, removing any chance from the equation.

Metagross @ Lum Berry / Occa Berry
~Earthquake
~Ice Punch
~ThunderPunch
~Meteor Mash

Metagross is another great recipient of +2/4 attack and +2 speed. It boasts no unfortunate weakness to priority like Lucario, and better all around bulk. However, Metagross often must rely on the unreliable Meteor Miss to beat bulky pokemon, and he has trouble taking out Balloon Steel types like Heatran and Doryuuzu.


This list is by absolutely no means comprehensive; it merely provides a glimpse into the huge realm of possibilities that exist for ‘blitz baton-passing’ teams. These teams are incredibly potent when played smartly, and are fun to play as they force you to commit to a strategy and single-mindedly attempt to execute it. While it is very easy for everything to go wrong at the drop of a hat, they can also set you up for a win faster than just about any other type of team can.
 
I've only seen one Baton Pass team so far, and they kind of sucked. I just don't think it's as viable with everyone and their mother having access to Dragon Tail, along with the much greater prevalence of strong priority and MH.

Edit: Oh yeah, it probably helped that I have both Sableye and Erufuun on my team, but still.
 
Remember that magic coat has +4 priority, so it can even reflect MH taunts.

That said, baton pass teams have been extremely underwhelming. So easily predictable. And of course, one crit will typically ruin the whole chain.
 
A Man In Black said:
Mischievous Heart Taunt.

It poses major issues, and both Mew and Gorebyss are obvious Baton Passers.
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I see a Will-o-wisp-using wall and a second-hand rain sweeper.

It's not that predictable.

Still, I can't really say BP teams are good. The best kind of BP is from one poke IMO.

DW Ubers with Smeargle, though? that's a totally different story
 
How long does Lucky Chant last? That seems like it would help.

Also, where are the 5th Gen passers/recipents?

IMO, Shibirudon and Chirachiino would make me crap my pants if those were at the end of the chain. Seriously.
 
Breludicolo said:
you think frail sweepers I think Cradily in Sandstorm
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Well, Shibirudon has nice bulk with immunity to Spikes, and Toxic Spikes.

Chirachinno is an epic sweeper with Technician+Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, Sweep Slap, and Quick Attack if at the end of a BP team especially.

Wouldn't SS be a problem to BP teams though?
 
Generally when I consider recievers, something bulky like Cradily that cannot be phazed out is what I aim for. If not that, then passing defensive boosts to something with Shell Armour and Battle Armour allows you to work without worrying about the unlucky crit, such as a Drapion that can then abuse Acupressure.
A good new reciever has to be Mirror Coat Espeon, which can laugh in the face of Taunt and Roar/Whirlwind.

As for members of a chain - Mischevious Heart Volbeat needs to be on that list, should it exist. Tail Glow is bad enough, but being able to immediately pass it is even worse - throw in Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray and it can fend off threats no problem. Speed Boost Blaziken, should that even manage to exist, is another new possibility, being a deadlier Ninjask that can come in any time.

The new threats to BP see obviously, Priority Taunt, and Dragon Tail/Overhead Throw which require a Substitute to block. Priority Leech Seeds and Confuse Rays are a bitch too. You also have Mountain Storm, Ice Breath and Holy Sword, that can rip through any defenses.
But alongside that, you have new benefits in the form of Magic Coat and Mental Herb, which will make the simple taunt that much harder.
 
You guys seem to be missing the point. The goal is not to build up a chain where the final mon has +6 everything. The goal is to pass a powerful sweeper +2 or +4 Attack/+2 Speed and smash through your opponent's team. IIRC, this strategy (usually a +2/+2 pass from Mew to Groudon) swept through Gen IV Ubers a while back to the point where some wanted it banned.

Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to disguise, either. A team with Deoxys-S, Gliscor, and Garchomp probably isn't going to raise any eyebrows, much less scream "Watch out, it's going for BP".
 
NDenizen said:
Speed Boost Blaziken, should that even manage to exist, is another new possibility, being a deadlier Ninjask that can come in any time.
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It does exist :D


Anyways, Magnezone seems good on a team passing to Chomp, as it can easily trap and kill shit like Skarmory, Bronzong, and Nattorei.

Also no EVs?
 
Good thread.

You should mention Volbeat as a potential Baton Passer (it can pass Tail Glows and eventually it gets Mischievous heart.
Evolution stone Gligar should also get a mention for being the bulkiest Baton Passer.
 
The problem with Evo Stone Gligar is that it loses the 12.5% healing per turn that Gliscor has, which greatly increases Gliscor's bulk. On the other hand, since it doesn't need Poison Heal, I suppose it can go with Roost (and the haxy goodness of Sand Veil), though then it loses one of its valuable moveslots.
 
Really cool thread. I like the fact that team preview lets you know what to pass to, unlike in fourth gen where you pass a ton of boosts to something like Ttar and then get your face Mach Punched in by the Ape you didn't know they had.
 
I know someone who uses a BP chain with BP Speed Boost Blaziken and BP Assist Power Espeon.



God, it ain't pretty.









Neither legal.
 
Venser said:
It does exist :D


Anyways, Magnezone seems good on a team passing to Chomp, as it can easily trap and kill shit like Skarmory, Bronzong, and Nattorei.

Also no EVs?
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How would you fit Magnezone onto a baton pass team, lol, it doesn't have BP for one, and switching to trap something means you would have to start your chain all over again; unless you intend on leading with magnezone, which is ridiculous. Also, there are only male torchics with speed boost atm, so no, they don't exist as baton pass is an egg move.
 
Magic Mirror Espeon is an amazing CM passer. It cannot be phazed or taunted and can set up all over most walls in this metagame.

When a female Torchic is released, Speed Boost Blaziken will also be absolutely amazing in BP teams, sometimes sweeping on his own.

Zapdos also received an upgrade with Lightningrod, providing a useful immunity along with these great resistances.

Also Multi-scale Dragonite would make a cool recipient, not taking lots of damage on the switch-in unlike other receivers such as Lucario.

Still, BP teams have the same issue they faced last gen: If the strategy doesn't work, you cannot repeat it. The list of viable BPers is shallow, meaning one cannot have a balanced team when utilising this strategy, and if something goes wrong, the team will most likely not be prepared to deal with the situation at hand.

This is why the most effective way of passing this gen won't be basing one's team around the strategy, rather having only one or two passers, one or two receivers, and the other pkes will be prepared to check various threats in case something doesn't go according to plan.
 
Has anybody looked at Pokemon with Assist Power? I believe that Espeon should be up there as one of the best Baton Pass Pokes.

Espeon@Lum Berry/Leftovers
Calm Mind
Assist Power
Baton Pass
Filler

With a defensive (or even Aggressive) EV spread, Espeon can hit lots of things really hard after it gets passed some boosts. It's a must on any Baton Pass team, it's immunity to Phazing makes it even better.
 
the best end-of-chain is harvenst troupious. for infinite pp stalling. but a small note is now mean look can no longer be passed.
 
You don't have to dedicate an entire team to a baton pass chain. You can just abuse a single passer alongside several sweepers, I think. Blaziken forces a lot of switches and a single Swords Dance means your sweeper is getting in at +2 Atk +1 Spe, which might be enough to spell GG for the opponent. I understand that this is not yet legal, but it's something worth waiting for lol. Inconsistent BP Smeargle, Shell Break Gorebyss and RP + SD Gligar/Gliscor all work well on their own and there are certainly enough sweepers that complement them typewise.

Baton pass chains, theoretically, are somewhat more easily shut down by all the Mischievous Heart users and Dragon Tail phazing. But IMO a single A -> B pass can still work well.
 
Shimrit As said:
You don't have to dedicate an entire team to a baton pass chain. You can just abuse a single passer alongside several sweepers, I think. Blaziken forces a lot of switches and a single Swords Dance means your sweeper is getting in at +2 Atk +1 Spe, which might be enough to spell GG for the opponent. I understand that this is not yet legal, but it's something worth waiting for lol. Inconsistent BP Smeargle, Shell Break Gorebyss and RP + SD Gligar/Gliscor all work well on their own and there are certainly enough sweepers that complement them typewise.

Baton pass chains, theoretically, are somewhat more easily shut down by all the Mischievous Heart users and Dragon Tail phazing. But IMO a single A -> B pass can still work well.
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Urgh, inconsistent BP smeargle is illegal as well, due to inconsistent as an ability being banned.

Also, to that guy who said Espeon is amazing, and it is, it's still ruined by dragon tail. Although a sub and some defense boosts would go a long way in helping that. Also, I believe that specially based lucario is better as a recipient than physical, as +3 Aura sphere is guaranteed KO on blissey and +2 comes very close, with a OHKO being guaranteed with SR and a modest nature. Chansey, however, is only OHKOed by +3. The specially based lucario also runs the advantage of not suffering from def/sp.def drops and no PP issues of close combat, also runs more reliable auxiliary moves, rather than the weak elemental punches, such as dragon pulse, shadow ball, etc. In fact aura sphere + dragon pulse already provides perfect neutral coverage, so there's room on sets for substitute or whatever, + vacuum wave as priority.
 
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