Sitrus Berry was changed at some point to restore 1/4 HP instead of 30.
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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Sitrus Berry was changed at some point to restore 1/4 HP instead of 30.
Oh, didn't know that. Well, that makes it a lot more viable lol. I guess that explains the "inexplicable" survival. Did they change the Oran berry too? I kind of wish we had higher-healing berries so they would actually be viable over something like Leftovers.
No, Oran Berry still heals only 10 HP. Also, Sitrus Berry is one of the(if not the) best healing items in Doubles and Triples because Leftovers heals too slowly in these fast-paced battles, so at least there are battle formats in which it's better than Leftovers.
Say, I wanted to make a Sand team for triples. But before trying to put anything together I was wondering if a Sand Team can be viable in triples.
Well, there's only a couple on the ladder. But Sand is a really useful weather to have in the Maison, breaking Sashes and chipping off missed KOs. I haven't tried it myself, but I would definitely say it's a viable team type. At first glance I would say Mega Garchomp is probably the best Sand abuser, due to sharing no weaknesses with Tyranitar.
Personally I'm in the theorymon stage of a Sand team for triples myself. Despite what I just said, I find myself wanting to use Mega Steelix and Tyranitar on a Trick Room team. That Gyro Ball's gonna be crazy! Landorus is pretty good too, since it just shares the Water weakness. And Stoutland could be interesting as a fast supporter (like Jumpluff in the sun) that can actually pack a bit of power too.
Side note: that feeling when you come up against a Head Smash Tyrantrum and it doesn't have Rock Head. Just passed 400 with my new Rotations team. Charizard X and Suicune make the team so much more powerful and less reliant on stall. Had a couple of close battles (one of which I forgot to save), but generally I can sweep with Charizard at +1/+2 or Suicune at +3/+4.
Personally I'm in the theorymon stage of a Sand team for triples myself. Despite what I just said, I find myself wanting to use Mega Steelix and Tyranitar on a Trick Room team. That Gyro Ball's gonna be crazy! Landorus is pretty good too, since it just shares the Water weakness. And Stoutland could be interesting as a fast supporter (like Jumpluff in the sun) that can actually pack a bit of power too.
Side note: that feeling when you come up against a Head Smash Tyrantrum and it doesn't have Rock Head. Just passed 400 with my new Rotations team. Charizard X and Suicune make the team so much more powerful and less reliant on stall. Had a couple of close battles (one of which I forgot to save), but generally I can sweep with Charizard at +1/+2 or Suicune at +3/+4.
Well, I know that Sand teams can be pretty good, though most I have seen when looking around are meant for Singles and a few for Doubles, given how different Singles and Doubles work I wondered if the change to Triples would be too much and make those teams not so effective.
Congrats on your run BTW.
One thing to be aware of is that the AI loves to use weather/terrain changing moves, although I think Sandstorm is the most common move anyway.
Welcome to Smogon!
For most Maison Pokemon, you only need 5 perfect IVs, since unless you are attacking on both the physical and special sides, either Attack or Special Attack will be basically worthless to you. But yes, where people don't specifically list a Pokemon's IVs, we generally assume that all relevant IVs are perfect.
Thankfully, it's not that hard to breed 5 IV Pokemon this generation, thanks to the wonders of the Destiny Knot, and the process typically gets much faster the more you do it because you'll have more good parents available.
If you are unfamiliar with efficient breeding this generation, read TheMantyke's Helpful Breeding Guide.
And if you go over to the WiFI Simple Questions / Requests Thread, you can ask for a 6IV Ditto (there are good people there who give them away if you ask politely), which will speed your breeding substantially.
Best of luck!
I think I've actually had an imperfect Pokemon on every one of my successful teams so far, and some of my unsuccessful ones as well (maybe not my first one? I know Togekiss and Kangaskhan were perfect, but I'm not sure about Aegislash). Right now, I think Durant has a 28 Atk IV (it's definitely not 31). At this point, it's kind of a fun quirk I like. This post just reminded me of it.
But yeah, you definitely want 5IVs whenever possible. The better you get, the more you'll have close calls rather than losing to poor teambuilding or misplays, and those extra couple of stat points can save you in those close calls.
Yeah that's understandable. And thanks! Rotations is my favouirite mode because it's the most like 6v6 singles, the AI can make some amazingly good predictions at times. If it wasn't for the suboptimal sets/EV spreads/random abilities/lack of Megas, it might actually make good offline practice for OU.
Something I want to ask anyone who is doing a long streak in Triples - how long does a bad matchup usually take? As much as I enjoy doing Rotations, getting more BP for the time I spend battling might be good, even if I'll never catch up to the top players on this leaderboard.
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I tried making one for Doubles but I couldn't get it to work. My team focused on Mega Garchomp with Tyranitar providing the Sand, however I found that they were both too slow to sweep and got countered hard by opposing water/ice types. I figured they would appreciate Tailwind but I couldn't find a way to get both that and Sand up so Chomp could sweep, if only there was an extra Pokemon on the field to help with this! In triples, you could easily add Talonflame / Aerodactyl to your front line as a setter. They both get either Quick Guard or Wide Guard (respectively) and Taunt for stopping opposing Trick Room. Aerodactyl also gets Sky Drop which could be useful since it's so fast it could stop something from killing Chomp / other teammate while it goes on the offensive, or it can use Smack Down to get rid of any Ground Immunities that the opposition might have so Chomp can freely spam Earthquake. Aero also appreciates the SpDef boost from sand (Manectric4 can't OHKO you from full health without a crit)
Since Sand teams have a pretty big weakness to water types it's a good idea to pack an electric type. Zapdos, Thundurus and Rotom are all good as they can spam Discharge when next to Garchomp / other ground type and are Immune to their teammates Earthquake. Zapdos is cool as it gets Tailwind (backup setter) and Heat Wave to deal with Grass / non-grounded Steels, it can also be a backup Sandstorm setter in a worse-case scenario.
tl;dr Sand is probably most viable in triples imo. Might have to revisit my old doubles idea with some of the suggestions I just made. Not before I try out my Sand-Room team idea for Rotations though
I lost at battle 427, here's the video: 9XPG-WWWW-WWXW-ZQ4R. I was distracted by something else so I made a huge misplay on turn 1. The AI capitalised by confusing and taunting multiple of my mons. I guess I should have used proper switching to shed the confusion - it wasn't a particularly tough battle in replays. Definitely could have gone further, I only had trouble in one or two battles over the whole streak when it wasn't my own fault. Here's the team write-up.
I think I'm done with Rotations for now. I never actually got the trophies for Triples and Multis in X before I lost my copy, so I guess I should do those in ORAS. I'll make another attempt with this team once the semester starts up and I have a commute to play on. For now, it's time to play other games.
Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 4 SDef / 116 Spd
Bold Nature
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
Moves are fairly standard for a Suicune. 132 HP hits a Leftovers number, giving me 12 HP recovery. Max defense lets Suicune do what it does best. 116 Spe outruns Thundurus/Tornadus at -1, because Calm Minding before getting attacked is good. Just like in Singles, Suicune can take care of most matchups on its' own. I've got it in front because it doesn't care about Intimidate, and baits Electric/Grass moves for the rest of my team to come in on.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Power Whip
I'm not sure how I didn't think of Zoom Lens before. There is only 3 pokes in the Maison slower than Ferrothorn, giving Leech Seed excellent accuracy even through Brightpowder (99.36% to be exact). With Leech Seed healing basically guaranteed, everything else becomes much better at its' job. I replaced Gyro Ball with Substitute because Gyro Ball wasn't doing much damage anyway. It keeps Ferrothorn alive and lets him play the Sub Protect game if I'm getting desperate. The EVs are similar to before, except I rechecked those calculations and realized that I didn't need quite so much special defense to make Glaceon's Blizzard a 3HKO. So some of them got moved to Atk for a slightly stronger Power Whip, which has made a noticeable difference on Water/Ground-types that I've had to let Curse a few times.
Charizard-Mega-X (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 172 SDef / 52 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
I'm kinda annoyed that I waited until ORAS to try this (because I wanted Fire Punch), since I ended up using Flare Blitz anyway. Everybody loves Scald because it unfreezes you in critical moments, right? Well, Flare Blitz does the same while also being a stupidly powerful move. Thanks to the Tough Claws boost, most of the Maison is OHKOed at +1, though I try to get to +2 when possible. Max HP gives me enough bulk to plow through a team with Flare Blitz if I have to. 172 SDef means I can Roost off the damage from Chandelure's Shadow Ball. 52 Spe outpaces notable threats such as Kingdras 1, 3 & 4 and Tyrantrum 4 as well as Hawlucha and Dugtrio at +1.
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spd
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Everybody knows what this does. I'm not sure the EVs and nature are totally optimal for my team, but I designed it to take <75% from Choice Band Staraptor's Brave Bird. That particular benchmark also let me take CB Outrages reasonably well. 92 Spe matches Charizard, so that I can scout for Blizzard/Hydro Pump misses against Kingdra and Sub before Lilligant Teeter Dances because I hate confusion. I would have liked more special bulk since Suicune and Ferrothorn take care of physical threats pretty well anyway, but I couldn't be bothered rebreeding Gliscor. Maybe next time.
This is a goodstuffs team, so there's no particular strategy to speak of. I don't really like looking up Maison movesets and trainer info mid battle, so I designed the team to resist a lot of attacks and do something useful most of the time, even if I mispredict. If Suicune or Charizard can't set up safely on their own, I use typing to set them up on resisted attacks. If I screw up and both sweepers die, Ferrothorn and Gliscor can stall almost anything out.
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk / 4 SDef / 116 Spd
Bold Nature
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Rest
Moves are fairly standard for a Suicune. 132 HP hits a Leftovers number, giving me 12 HP recovery. Max defense lets Suicune do what it does best. 116 Spe outruns Thundurus/Tornadus at -1, because Calm Minding before getting attacked is good. Just like in Singles, Suicune can take care of most matchups on its' own. I've got it in front because it doesn't care about Intimidate, and baits Electric/Grass moves for the rest of my team to come in on.
Ferrothorn (M) @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute
- Power Whip
I'm not sure how I didn't think of Zoom Lens before. There is only 3 pokes in the Maison slower than Ferrothorn, giving Leech Seed excellent accuracy even through Brightpowder (99.36% to be exact). With Leech Seed healing basically guaranteed, everything else becomes much better at its' job. I replaced Gyro Ball with Substitute because Gyro Ball wasn't doing much damage anyway. It keeps Ferrothorn alive and lets him play the Sub Protect game if I'm getting desperate. The EVs are similar to before, except I rechecked those calculations and realized that I didn't need quite so much special defense to make Glaceon's Blizzard a 3HKO. So some of them got moved to Atk for a slightly stronger Power Whip, which has made a noticeable difference on Water/Ground-types that I've had to let Curse a few times.
Charizard-Mega-X (M) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Tough Claws
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 172 SDef / 52 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Flare Blitz
I'm kinda annoyed that I waited until ORAS to try this (because I wanted Fire Punch), since I ended up using Flare Blitz anyway. Everybody loves Scald because it unfreezes you in critical moments, right? Well, Flare Blitz does the same while also being a stupidly powerful move. Thanks to the Tough Claws boost, most of the Maison is OHKOed at +1, though I try to get to +2 when possible. Max HP gives me enough bulk to plow through a team with Flare Blitz if I have to. 172 SDef means I can Roost off the damage from Chandelure's Shadow Ball. 52 Spe outpaces notable threats such as Kingdras 1, 3 & 4 and Tyrantrum 4 as well as Hawlucha and Dugtrio at +1.
Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 Spd
Impish Nature
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic
- Earthquake
Everybody knows what this does. I'm not sure the EVs and nature are totally optimal for my team, but I designed it to take <75% from Choice Band Staraptor's Brave Bird. That particular benchmark also let me take CB Outrages reasonably well. 92 Spe matches Charizard, so that I can scout for Blizzard/Hydro Pump misses against Kingdra and Sub before Lilligant Teeter Dances because I hate confusion. I would have liked more special bulk since Suicune and Ferrothorn take care of physical threats pretty well anyway, but I couldn't be bothered rebreeding Gliscor. Maybe next time.
This is a goodstuffs team, so there's no particular strategy to speak of. I don't really like looking up Maison movesets and trainer info mid battle, so I designed the team to resist a lot of attacks and do something useful most of the time, even if I mispredict. If Suicune or Charizard can't set up safely on their own, I use typing to set them up on resisted attacks. If I screw up and both sweepers die, Ferrothorn and Gliscor can stall almost anything out.
I think I'm done with Rotations for now. I never actually got the trophies for Triples and Multis in X before I lost my copy, so I guess I should do those in ORAS. I'll make another attempt with this team once the semester starts up and I have a commute to play on. For now, it's time to play other games.
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aussieman000, good to see ZardX having success - I didn't expect Flare Blitz, but it makes sense with how Double-Edge seems more effective on the MegaKhan I use despite the nasty recoil.
Minor nitpick on Zard's EVs: 32 EVs in Attack has four wasted EVs that could be moved to Defense for a free point.
Regarding your Triples question, I'm not sure I follow - are you asking how long it takes for a team to run into a bad match-up? If that's the case, the number of 1000+ streaks on the leaderboard should be proof enough that it doesn't happen very often - maybe somewhere between 1 out of 50 and 1 out of 250 battles depending on the team. Triples is definitely more efficient than Rotations for grinding BP.
I've been playing Rotations in ORAS myself with Team Substitute V2. I still think Rotations is an awful mode that has more in common with rolling loaded dice than actually playing Pokémon, but I have sufficient improvements that it'd be a shame not to give it another go.
Minor nitpick on Zard's EVs: 32 EVs in Attack has four wasted EVs that could be moved to Defense for a free point.
Regarding your Triples question, I'm not sure I follow - are you asking how long it takes for a team to run into a bad match-up? If that's the case, the number of 1000+ streaks on the leaderboard should be proof enough that it doesn't happen very often - maybe somewhere between 1 out of 50 and 1 out of 250 battles depending on the team. Triples is definitely more efficient than Rotations for grinding BP.
I've been playing Rotations in ORAS myself with Team Substitute V2. I still think Rotations is an awful mode that has more in common with rolling loaded dice than actually playing Pokémon, but I have sufficient improvements that it'd be a shame not to give it another go.
Rotations is... odd, to be sure, but it feels more like fencing back and forth, waiting for the right moment for a Poke to sweep - but then, our teams are different. ;)
I put a hold on my Rotations game at 70-something because I got distracted by mini-painting - also, I am REALLY BAD with Gengar, and I'm training up a Timid Latias to replace him, with Healing Wish/Calm Mind/Roost/Psychic, 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def - or maybe some other calculation once I get into the depths of it.
I am just... so bad with Gengar. I can't predict Destiny Bond for shit from Maison trainers.
I put a hold on my Rotations game at 70-something because I got distracted by mini-painting - also, I am REALLY BAD with Gengar, and I'm training up a Timid Latias to replace him, with Healing Wish/Calm Mind/Roost/Psychic, 252 HP/252 Spe/4 Def - or maybe some other calculation once I get into the depths of it.
I am just... so bad with Gengar. I can't predict Destiny Bond for shit from Maison trainers.
Yeah it's just stupidly powerful, sometimes I would sweep without a boost if I outsped the other team and there was no Dragons or Fire immunities. Of course, the difference going from Fire Punch to Flare Blitz is much greater than Return to Double Edge. I'd love to try Zard X in Super Singles now, I'm surprised no one has really used him in the Maison yet. And thanks for that, I didn't even notice since I wasn't going for any particular targets with Atk. I'm sorry that I wasn't clear with my question. What I really wanted to know was, how long does a difficult battle usually take?
When I'm playing on the bus or train and I have to close my DS midway to get off, I worry about forgetting certain details such as who last used Protect, which opponents have been seeded or hit by Icy Wind etc. I guess I could just keep notes, but it'd be nicer if the tough battles were just shorter so that was less of an issue. I think the longest battle I ever had was against a team which had Double Team Zapdos and Tornadus, pokemon who are already difficult to switch into. They both got Double Teams while I was setting up, in the end it probably took around 20 minutes to beat them. Would a difficult battle in Triples typically be quicker than that?
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Much quicker - stalling is not very viable in Doubles/Triples (and most teams lack any Pokémon/moves to do it with as a result) and even the longest battles very rarely last more than 10-15 turns. Thinking through and calcing a bad situation can take a bit of extra time, but 10+ minute PP slapfights are out of the question (aside from Cresselia2 boosting enough that you can no longer kill it and have to wait it out).
Heh, yes, Cresselia2 led to my longest Maison battle ever. It was a doubles battle, and I decided to focus on killing its partners first, rather than risk missing, which was a mistake and gave it time to set up. Worse, a Thunderbolt from Eelektross paralyzed it, so I wasn't even able to go for Toxic with Aron. To beat it, I had to switch every turn to keep Toxic damage from racking up too quickly, and it was fully paralyzed a ton, which made the process take even longer, since that slowed the PP stalling. I did learn the valuable lesson of always maxing PP, even on moves where you can't imagine needing them all, so at least something positive came of it.
If you're so bored that 65(!!) turns of switching and pain appeal to you, the battle is here: BH7W-WWWW-WWXW-VA4X
I've been working on a Theorymon for Doubles and I think it can also be applied to Triples.
So Greninja's Mat Block is one of the best Doubles/Triples moves in the game. However, it's very annoying when the AI decides not to play along and use a set up move, a status move, or even more annoyingly, protect right in the face of your free attack. Wouldn't it be great if there was a Pokemon that acted as a free Taunt and also really appreciated the free turn? Enter Offensive Level 1 Aron. Aron makes sure the opponent attacks into Mat Block, and gets a free shot to Endeavor something down to 12 HP. Greninja can then use U-Turn KO the weakened foe and bring in a heavy hitter (and be able to Mat Block again later in the battle), while Aron tanks a hit, re-activates Sturdy with Berry Juice, and almost takes out another foe. Life Orb Dark Pulse takes out the annoying Ghost types, and the rear line can deal with priority and use spread moves to break Sturdy and nab random other KOs.
Here's the first draft:
Aron (lvl 1) @ Berry Juice
Sturdy
Nature & stats don't matter
-Endeavor
-Protect
-Toxic
-Sandstorm
Greninja @ Life Orb
Timid, Protean
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Mat Block
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse
-U-Turn
(Note: even a zero attack IV can KO a Suicune after Endeavor and Leftovers recovery)
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 27-32 (13 - 15.4%) (Suicune has 25 HP after Leftovers recovery and full health Endeavor)
Salamence @ Salamencite
Timid, Intimidate --> Aerialate
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Flamethrower
-Dragon Pulse
-Draco Meteor
Strongest, fastest spread move user I could think of that can KO whatever's weakened by Endeavor (even AV Magnezone) while doing chip damage to the other opponent in case Aron can't deal with it. Flamethrower hits Steels and Dragon Pulse hits everything else.
252 SpA Life Orb Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 13-16 (8.9 - 11%)
Aegislash @ Sitrus Berry
Quiet, Stance Change
252 HP/4 Att/252 SpA
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Shadow Sneak
Strong, tanky Mon with priority to pick off whatever's weakened Aron.
I'm still taking this team though the streak (it seems like there's a ton of priority before the 30th battle), but I had another idea: What if we applied this madness to Triples? Trick Room loves a free Taunt almost as much as it loves Mat Block's free turn. This frees you up to use an offensive Trick Room user, and Greninja's "slow" U-turn can actually be a boon to get your other heavy hitter in for free. If the Trick Room user has a spread move, it can conceivably take out 2 Pokemon turn 2 and have Aron start turn 3 with Sturdy still intact. The only problem is the best options for Trick Room users are probably either SlowThings, Musharna, or Chandelure with Iron Ball.
Not quite sure what the second line would be. Mega Camerupt would be nice for massive power, but MegaTyranitar could bring much-wanted Sand to help Aron kill things. Adaptability Dragelge spamming Sludge Wave next to a steel type is appealing too. Needs more thought.
So Greninja's Mat Block is one of the best Doubles/Triples moves in the game. However, it's very annoying when the AI decides not to play along and use a set up move, a status move, or even more annoyingly, protect right in the face of your free attack. Wouldn't it be great if there was a Pokemon that acted as a free Taunt and also really appreciated the free turn? Enter Offensive Level 1 Aron. Aron makes sure the opponent attacks into Mat Block, and gets a free shot to Endeavor something down to 12 HP. Greninja can then use U-Turn KO the weakened foe and bring in a heavy hitter (and be able to Mat Block again later in the battle), while Aron tanks a hit, re-activates Sturdy with Berry Juice, and almost takes out another foe. Life Orb Dark Pulse takes out the annoying Ghost types, and the rear line can deal with priority and use spread moves to break Sturdy and nab random other KOs.
Here's the first draft:
Aron (lvl 1) @ Berry Juice
Sturdy
Nature & stats don't matter
-Endeavor
-Protect
-Toxic
-Sandstorm
Greninja @ Life Orb
Timid, Protean
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Mat Block
-Ice Beam
-Dark Pulse
-U-Turn
(Note: even a zero attack IV can KO a Suicune after Endeavor and Leftovers recovery)
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 27-32 (13 - 15.4%) (Suicune has 25 HP after Leftovers recovery and full health Endeavor)
Salamence @ Salamencite
Timid, Intimidate --> Aerialate
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
-Hyper Voice
-Flamethrower
-Dragon Pulse
-Draco Meteor
Strongest, fastest spread move user I could think of that can KO whatever's weakened by Endeavor (even AV Magnezone) while doing chip damage to the other opponent in case Aron can't deal with it. Flamethrower hits Steels and Dragon Pulse hits everything else.
252 SpA Life Orb Aerilate Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 13-16 (8.9 - 11%)
Aegislash @ Sitrus Berry
Quiet, Stance Change
252 HP/4 Att/252 SpA
-King's Shield
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Shadow Sneak
Strong, tanky Mon with priority to pick off whatever's weakened Aron.
I'm still taking this team though the streak (it seems like there's a ton of priority before the 30th battle), but I had another idea: What if we applied this madness to Triples? Trick Room loves a free Taunt almost as much as it loves Mat Block's free turn. This frees you up to use an offensive Trick Room user, and Greninja's "slow" U-turn can actually be a boon to get your other heavy hitter in for free. If the Trick Room user has a spread move, it can conceivably take out 2 Pokemon turn 2 and have Aron start turn 3 with Sturdy still intact. The only problem is the best options for Trick Room users are probably either SlowThings, Musharna, or Chandelure with Iron Ball.
Not quite sure what the second line would be. Mega Camerupt would be nice for massive power, but MegaTyranitar could bring much-wanted Sand to help Aron kill things. Adaptability Dragelge spamming Sludge Wave next to a steel type is appealing too. Needs more thought.
I like it! My big concern with Life Orb Greninja is stuff like Jolteon and Electrode knocking it out before it can move. Then again, I've never used Endeavor Aron, so it may be a bigger magnet than Greninja. I'm more curious about how it plays in Doubles than Triples, but that might just be because I feel Triples has been "cracked" better than Doubles has, so to speak.
I feel the need to give some other helpful advice for Maison:
Yes, 5IV works just fine, and a 6IV Ditto with Destiny Knot speeds the process up by a very large amount, I highly recommend getting one. On actual Maison topics, there are some teams archetypes you'll find work well, and they change depending on the format:
Mega-Kangaskhan:
A Mega-Kangaskhan, preferably with Power-up Punch (which I think is the most viable set, although I'm not 100% sure) can destroy most of the Maison by itself, so it's easy to tailor your team specifically to it. I used a M-khan/Greninja/Aegislash team myself and it was very good. Aegi handles the fighting types that Khan and Greninja have trouble with, and the two of them can deal with most things that threaten Khan. There are other variations, of course, so find one that suits your needs and what you have.
Durant:
Yes, Durant, and believe it or not, you want Truant on it. Why? Entrainment. By using Entrainment to get Truant onto the opponent, and switch to another mon who utilizes Protect to set up for free. Perhaps the most viable Singles archetype currently out there, it's certainly the easiest to pick up (provided you have Truant Durant, of course), as it allows for a lot of error by Maison standards. This is a gimmick, sure, but the AI doesn't care and the gimmick works, so don't be afraid to use it.
Other teams work just as well; you can check out the top streaks for more ideas - this goes for all formats
A Mega-Kangaskhan, preferably with Power-up Punch (which I think is the most viable set, although I'm not 100% sure) can destroy most of the Maison by itself, so it's easy to tailor your team specifically to it. I used a M-khan/Greninja/Aegislash team myself and it was very good. Aegi handles the fighting types that Khan and Greninja have trouble with, and the two of them can deal with most things that threaten Khan. There are other variations, of course, so find one that suits your needs and what you have.
Durant:
Yes, Durant, and believe it or not, you want Truant on it. Why? Entrainment. By using Entrainment to get Truant onto the opponent, and switch to another mon who utilizes Protect to set up for free. Perhaps the most viable Singles archetype currently out there, it's certainly the easiest to pick up (provided you have Truant Durant, of course), as it allows for a lot of error by Maison standards. This is a gimmick, sure, but the AI doesn't care and the gimmick works, so don't be afraid to use it.
Other teams work just as well; you can check out the top streaks for more ideas - this goes for all formats
Trick Room Aron:
Yes, it's another gimmick. The good thing about this team is it doesn't require as much work as other Doubles teams, as your Aron doesn't care about natures, IVs, or EVs, because it's level one. Yes, Aron is level one for this team, and that makes it perhaps one of the single most powerful mons in the Maison Doubles environment. The Aron needs two specific moves, and item, and Sturdy. You'll be attaching Berry Juice, and utilizing Protect and Endeavor. Berry Juice allows Aron to take three hits as long as Sturdy isn't broken (and prevents Unnerve), and Endeavor puts other mons comfortably within KO range of your partner. The other two moves are up to you: I use Swagger and Toxic, but there's no set moves there. The first turn, when TR isn't up, you HAVE to protect; the only exception is when Hail or similar exists on the field, as that will break Sturdy. You have to protect because Aron is a lure for the AI; they can't resist trying to kill it, letting your TR setter set up TR easy.
After you have your Aron, the rest is just a TR team; you need a setter to go first (I use Eviolite Dusclops, with an EV spread to help maximize bulk and use Night Shade to help minimize the need for damaging moves), and two other TR mons in the back. It's pretty flexible, as Aron + TR is to Doubles as M-Khan is to singles: it takes out most mons by itself (provided you don't get unlucky and have Ghosts)
Yes, it's another gimmick. The good thing about this team is it doesn't require as much work as other Doubles teams, as your Aron doesn't care about natures, IVs, or EVs, because it's level one. Yes, Aron is level one for this team, and that makes it perhaps one of the single most powerful mons in the Maison Doubles environment. The Aron needs two specific moves, and item, and Sturdy. You'll be attaching Berry Juice, and utilizing Protect and Endeavor. Berry Juice allows Aron to take three hits as long as Sturdy isn't broken (and prevents Unnerve), and Endeavor puts other mons comfortably within KO range of your partner. The other two moves are up to you: I use Swagger and Toxic, but there's no set moves there. The first turn, when TR isn't up, you HAVE to protect; the only exception is when Hail or similar exists on the field, as that will break Sturdy. You have to protect because Aron is a lure for the AI; they can't resist trying to kill it, letting your TR setter set up TR easy.
After you have your Aron, the rest is just a TR team; you need a setter to go first (I use Eviolite Dusclops, with an EV spread to help maximize bulk and use Night Shade to help minimize the need for damaging moves), and two other TR mons in the back. It's pretty flexible, as Aron + TR is to Doubles as M-Khan is to singles: it takes out most mons by itself (provided you don't get unlucky and have Ghosts)
I'm not too familiar with Triples, but Mat Block Greninja seems to be a good mon for it. Triples teams are otherwise pretty flexible, and are arguably the easiest format (we have a team with an ongoing streak of 5500 right now. He has a lot of iterations of the team he used, so I would highly recommend checking it out.
I like your idea, but here's a small(but rather important) nitpick. Mega Salamence shouldn't have that Life Orb, so the actual calc is this one:
252 SpA Aerilate Mega Salamence Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Magnezone: 10-12 (6.8 - 8.2%)
It means Magnezone4 has a chance of surviving MMence's Hyper Voice after a full HP Endeavor.
Hi there. So I've been through Maison a few times now to 50 streaks in everything but Multi in both X and Alpha Sapphire, thinking about trying some of the new Megas in a few of the battle modes.
Looking for some opinions on natures. So far I'm thinking Jolly Mega Beedrill. Also wanna try Mega Salamence and Altaria, both most likely Dragon Dance sets. Thinking Adamant over Jolly or something else there at the moment. Any opinions appreciated.
Looking for some opinions on natures. So far I'm thinking Jolly Mega Beedrill. Also wanna try Mega Salamence and Altaria, both most likely Dragon Dance sets. Thinking Adamant over Jolly or something else there at the moment. Any opinions appreciated.
I had good success with a Mega-Salamence until I lost it at 98 (got distracted... dammit) with this set:
Salamence
Adamant 132 HP/252 ATK/124 Spe Salamencite
Roost
Dragon Dance
Return
Earthquake
The speed is so that after one DD it outspeeds choice Garchomp, and even before transforming it outspeeds a ton of minor and major threats. Double-Edge was run initially, but I ran some calcs and at +1 Return KOs everything you need to. You only need to DD once and you can sweep almost unhindered.
It HATES status, though - except for Toxic, because it can usually break through anything before the toxic damage builds up.
Long time lurker here. Just thought I'd actually post with an achievement though. I played all the way up to where I got without consulting the list of Trainers or the one with Pokemon and their movesets/items. I thought it would be more fun that way. I made it to battle 254 in Super Doubles in the Battle Maison.
The code for the video is 7ANG-WWWW-WWXX-3YPD
My team, with nicknames listed for when I try again in the future:
Mega-Kangashan @ Kangaskhanite, aka Motherboy
Jolly / Scrappy
31/31/31/x/31/31
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Fake Out
Return
Power Punch
Sucker Punch
Sylveon @ Choice Specs, aka Death Metal
Quiet / Pixilate
31/x/31/31/31/0
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
Hyper Voice
Moonblast
Shadow Ball
Psyshock
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest, aka 2 Slabz
Brave / Guts
31/31/31/x/31/0
252 Atk, 252 SpD, 4 HP
Knock Off
Mach Punch
Drain Punch
Ice Punch
Gastrodon @ Leftovers, aka Thirsty
Bold / Storm Drain
31/x/31/31/31/31
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
Scald
Earth Power
Ice Beam
Sludge Bomb
The strategy was simple. Turn 1, lead with Kang and Sylveon. Mega evolve and fake out the biggest threat to my Kang, then fire off a massively powerful Pixilated and Choice Spec'd Hyper voice. The fake out almost always targets things that are fighting types (I'm looking at you, Terrakion/Mienshao/Medicham), Ghost types that would use Will-O-Wisp (obviously don't mega evolve so that I could take advantage of Scrappy), or Pokemon that tend to use OHKO moves (Fissure, Sheer Cold). Turn 2 was spamming Return on things that continue to threaten. PuP was only used when I was up against Steels/Rocks so I could break though them with Return, or when Kang was burned so that it could regain its power. 99% of the time I was only using Hyper Voice with Sylveon. The only notable exception was somewhere around battle 100, when the opponent led off with Registeel (or was it Entei? Can't recall) and Latias. I used Shadow Ball on Latias so that after I KO'd it, I could also use it for neutral damage on the other one. I would say 3/5 battles ended just by using this potent combination.
Next up, I picked Conkeldurr and Gastrodon as my bulky switch-ins. Guts Conkeldurr was specifically chosen because I had lost 2 streaks to Dusknoir and Spiritomb. Kang didn't have the required power to break them with out mega evolving, and even after mega evolving they wouldn't reliably attack, so Sucker Punch was useless. They kept burning it with WoW. Soooo in comes Conkeldurr, who gets the power boost from Guts and proceeds to wreck lives with a boosted Knock Off. I found Gastrodon to be the perfect partner for Sylveon because it could reliably switch in to both of its weakness, and proceed to annoy the opponent with Scald. He was also my answer to bulky Milotic and Suicune, both of whom have also ended previous streaks for me. Thirsty doesn't do much damage, but he stopped opponents from spamming STAB'd water moves. He's also lightweight enough that he never gets OHKOd by Grass Knot. One time, he even survived an Energy Ball. I swear I don't even know how.
How I lost: I misplayed. I was relentlessly targeting Walrein for fear of the haxxy Sheer Cold. Meanwhile, Donphan proceeded to absolutely destroy my starting lineup with Earthquake. Turn 3, Donphan activates its Quick Claw and finishes off my Kang with EQ. Hydreigon then uses Dragon Rush and flinches my Conkeldurr. 2 Slabz got KO'd next turn after letting off a measly Mach Punch on the Hydreigon. Poor Thirsty never had a chance against Hydreigon and Magnezone.
Changes I might make: I might substitute Hariyama for Conkeldurr. If I do that, I will either teach Thirsty Protect instead of Sludge Bomb to stall for more lefties recovery, or give him the Assault Vest. For Hariyama, I was thinking:
Hariyama @ Sitrus Berry, aka Hitchslap
Brave / Guts
31/31/31/x/31/0
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
Fake Out
Knock Off
Close Combat
Bullet Punch/Ice Punch
My reason for this being that I would gain another Fake Out user. He has similar defensive bulk but way more power with CC. He doesn't have the same SpD, obviously.
Thoughts and comments?
Edits - Spelling, grammar, sentence structure, prose, edits, and additional set info.
The code for the video is 7ANG-WWWW-WWXX-3YPD
My team, with nicknames listed for when I try again in the future:
Mega-Kangashan @ Kangaskhanite, aka Motherboy
Jolly / Scrappy
31/31/31/x/31/31
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Fake Out
Return
Power Punch
Sucker Punch
Sylveon @ Choice Specs, aka Death Metal
Quiet / Pixilate
31/x/31/31/31/0
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
Hyper Voice
Moonblast
Shadow Ball
Psyshock
Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest, aka 2 Slabz
Brave / Guts
31/31/31/x/31/0
252 Atk, 252 SpD, 4 HP
Knock Off
Mach Punch
Drain Punch
Ice Punch
Gastrodon @ Leftovers, aka Thirsty
Bold / Storm Drain
31/x/31/31/31/31
252 HP, 252 SpA, 4 Def
Scald
Earth Power
Ice Beam
Sludge Bomb
The strategy was simple. Turn 1, lead with Kang and Sylveon. Mega evolve and fake out the biggest threat to my Kang, then fire off a massively powerful Pixilated and Choice Spec'd Hyper voice. The fake out almost always targets things that are fighting types (I'm looking at you, Terrakion/Mienshao/Medicham), Ghost types that would use Will-O-Wisp (obviously don't mega evolve so that I could take advantage of Scrappy), or Pokemon that tend to use OHKO moves (Fissure, Sheer Cold). Turn 2 was spamming Return on things that continue to threaten. PuP was only used when I was up against Steels/Rocks so I could break though them with Return, or when Kang was burned so that it could regain its power. 99% of the time I was only using Hyper Voice with Sylveon. The only notable exception was somewhere around battle 100, when the opponent led off with Registeel (or was it Entei? Can't recall) and Latias. I used Shadow Ball on Latias so that after I KO'd it, I could also use it for neutral damage on the other one. I would say 3/5 battles ended just by using this potent combination.
Next up, I picked Conkeldurr and Gastrodon as my bulky switch-ins. Guts Conkeldurr was specifically chosen because I had lost 2 streaks to Dusknoir and Spiritomb. Kang didn't have the required power to break them with out mega evolving, and even after mega evolving they wouldn't reliably attack, so Sucker Punch was useless. They kept burning it with WoW. Soooo in comes Conkeldurr, who gets the power boost from Guts and proceeds to wreck lives with a boosted Knock Off. I found Gastrodon to be the perfect partner for Sylveon because it could reliably switch in to both of its weakness, and proceed to annoy the opponent with Scald. He was also my answer to bulky Milotic and Suicune, both of whom have also ended previous streaks for me. Thirsty doesn't do much damage, but he stopped opponents from spamming STAB'd water moves. He's also lightweight enough that he never gets OHKOd by Grass Knot. One time, he even survived an Energy Ball. I swear I don't even know how.
How I lost: I misplayed. I was relentlessly targeting Walrein for fear of the haxxy Sheer Cold. Meanwhile, Donphan proceeded to absolutely destroy my starting lineup with Earthquake. Turn 3, Donphan activates its Quick Claw and finishes off my Kang with EQ. Hydreigon then uses Dragon Rush and flinches my Conkeldurr. 2 Slabz got KO'd next turn after letting off a measly Mach Punch on the Hydreigon. Poor Thirsty never had a chance against Hydreigon and Magnezone.
Changes I might make: I might substitute Hariyama for Conkeldurr. If I do that, I will either teach Thirsty Protect instead of Sludge Bomb to stall for more lefties recovery, or give him the Assault Vest. For Hariyama, I was thinking:
Hariyama @ Sitrus Berry, aka Hitchslap
Brave / Guts
31/31/31/x/31/0
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 SpD
Fake Out
Knock Off
Close Combat
Bullet Punch/Ice Punch
My reason for this being that I would gain another Fake Out user. He has similar defensive bulk but way more power with CC. He doesn't have the same SpD, obviously.
Thoughts and comments?
Edits - Spelling, grammar, sentence structure, prose, edits, and additional set info.
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