Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[ninjaethan]

Hm.
There's no rule so why not ask?

If I copy someone's 'EXACT' team, & it beats the previous trainer that used this team..

Will my record be able to go on the list?

Thanks ~

(Since it's a complete copy, I don't know if it'll be allowed on the record list..)

 

[mirage_drag0n]

For anyone that needs a quick team to get all 5 trophies, here's mine:
Singles - Sash Greninja, Band Garchomp, Mega Scizor
Doubles - Band Garchomp, Life Orb Thundurus-T, Mega Kangaskhan, Sharp Beak Talonflame (mash A for an hour)
Triples - Mat Block Greninja, Mega Blastoise, Sharp Beak Talonflame, +Filler (you don't need them)
Rotation - Mega-Kangaskhan, Life Orb Greninja, Scarf Darmanitan, Band Garchomp
Multi - Find a friend and repeat doubles strategy, otherwise Sash Greninja, Lum Berry Garchomp

 

[GG Unit]

Guys, I'd like a quick item suggestion. What item would be better for this Porygon-Z in Super Singles?

Porygon-Z
Modest / Adaptability
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

The purpose of this guy was to fire off full power Hyper Beams because in my new team strategy, battles usually end 1-on-1 with Porygon-Z vs. opponent. Porygon-Z destroys nearly everything with a 280 power Hyper Beam coming off a Special Attack stat of 205. The other moves are there just to hit x4 weaknesses, Ghosts, and Blissey. I was wondering, what would be the best item for its purpose of just hitting as hard as it can? I was debating between:

- Silk Scarf, which bring Hyper Beam up to 336 power but doesn't affect the other moves,
- Wide Lens, which gives Hyper Beam 99% accuracy (I almost lost once from 2 misses in a row) but also doesn't affect other moves,
- Life Orb, which boosts ALL moves but doesn't work well with Porygon-Z's middling Speed and the recharge turn from Hyper Beam (in case it's 1-2), and
- Sitrus Berry, for increasing its longevity during the recharge.

Of course, any other items with good reason would be appreciated as well as thoughts about the Porygon-Z, thanks!

For maximum carnage try:

Porygon-Z
Mild or Rash / Download
Life Orb
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Giga Impact
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt

90% of the time, it works every time*. +1 Life Orb Hyper Beam does more damage than Silk Scarf Adaptability Hyper Beam. Giga Impact makes sure you don't get screwed by stuff with higher Special Defense; at +1 it does 73-86% to Blissey, so just chip a little bit off there and let it rip.

If you don't want to rebreed Porygon, I'd suggest Choice Specs Adaptability with Hyper Beam, Dark Pulse, Trick, and some filler 4th (Tri Attack, Recover, Nasty Plot, I don't know), the idea here being that you max out that Hyper Beam damage while also having a chance to eventually make something that will lead with a status move Struggle to death.

*unless something is faster and KOs it or is a Rock/Steel type with decent Special Defense or has a Focus Sash or some other stuff

 

[VaporeonIce]

Hm.
There's no rule so why not ask?

If I copy someone's 'EXACT' team, & it beats the previous trainer that used this team..

Will my record be able to go on the list?

Thanks ~

(Since it's a complete copy, I don't know if it'll be allowed on the record list..)

It's definitely allowed, but I'd call it "frowned upon" (by me, anyway), since it doesn't necessarily add anything to the thread. If you use the team and give detail about how you played them, ways you got around threats the original team developer noted, etc., that's more acceptable, because it DOES contribute something to the thread. If the original team developer only gave minimal detail about threats, strategy, and such, then a "copycat" streak is also more acceptable.

I was personally pretty irritated when someone got a higher streak than me in Rotations with the same team I used, since I had posted extensive detail about how I used the team, what the threats were, and how I got around them, while the person who broke my streak didn't post any (and didn't play very impressively in the losing battle). If you really DON'T bring anything new in terms of strategy, then it's entirely possible you just got a bigger streak than them out of sheer luck, which isn't necessarily something I'd want to publicize, personally. And, to be fair, the person who bettered my streak in Rotations acknowledged the role of luck in getting there. I was more annoyed by the situation (having a lower streak with a team I designed due to luck) than I was at the actual person.

We had a discussion on the topic a while back, and reading that might inform your decision. Here's where it starts: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-82#post-5652558

tl;dr: If I got a superior "copycat streak," I personally wouldn't post it unless I felt the way I played the team significantly contributed to the discussion on this thread. But copycat streaks are allowed, for some good reasons.

 

[ninjaethan]

Thanks :)

Because I have 551 atm lol

 

[cant say]

For maximum carnage try:

Porygon-Z
Mild or Rash / Download
Life Orb
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Giga Impact
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt

90% of the time, it works every time*. +1 Life Orb Hyper Beam does more damage than Silk Scarf Adaptability Hyper Beam. Giga Impact makes sure you don't get screwed by stuff with higher Special Defense; at +1 it does 73-86% to Blissey, so just chip a little bit off there and let it rip.

If you don't want to rebreed Porygon, I'd suggest Choice Specs Adaptability with Hyper Beam, Dark Pulse, Trick, and some filler 4th (Tri Attack, Recover, Nasty Plot, I don't know), the idea here being that you max out that Hyper Beam damage while also having a chance to eventually make something that will lead with a status move Struggle to death.

*unless something is faster and KOs it or is a Rock/Steel type with decent Special Defense or has a Focus Sash or some other stuff

This also doesn't look reliable but it looks fun! I hadn't considered the use of Trick-Specs as a way to get past Blissey and Friends, I would personally go with that set instead of the dual-recharge set now that you've mentioned it..

~ Well thought out post by a Maison veteran ~

~ immature one-line reply ~

Yeah this is going to end well...

Personally, I don't understand why you would even bother posting a copycat streak in the first place. The only reason I could think why you would use someone else's team is because you're struggling to get the trophy and that's all you want.

To me, the art of building a streak is the teambuilding itself, then battling and getting a massive streak is how you justify your teambuilding. If you've got a huge streak with someone else's team you've just justified their streak even more. I'm not sure how you'd even feel proud enough to post your streak unless it was to just say 'hey nice job [blank] you built a sick team thanks!' but even then it's still pretty pointless.

If you look at someone's team and think it's cool, why not swap out a Pokemon for something else that you like better? Or change the moves around? This is all just my opinion since I think copying is boring anyway

 

[Eppie]

Hm.
There's no rule so why not ask?

If I copy someone's 'EXACT' team, & it beats the previous trainer that used this team..

Will my record be able to go on the list?

Thanks ~

(Since it's a complete copy, I don't know if it'll be allowed on the record list..)

I agree that it'd be frowned upon (or, at least by me, too).
Then again, there certainly isn't a rule which states that it's not allowed since we should all have access to all (legal) Pokémon available, in any possible combination.

But if you really feel like getting your name on the record list using someone elses exact team with a higher record (which you shouldn't, in my humble opinion), I think the least one could do in such situation is giving him or her a heads-up through private message before making the actual post. I can imagine one getting frustrated when seeing his or her streak being beaten, let alone with the exact same team..

Not adding Copycat teams should never be a rule, yet it is an unwritten rule for most of us.

 

[Theron]

Hello! I've been lurking in this thread for a while, and posting for the first time in this thread (second time in smogon). I've been trying the super triples format and only managed to get a streak of 180, but I thought I'd share anyways. The team I used is fairly to use so it can at least help get the 50 win streak for the trophy. In my losing battle (6XUG-WWWW-WWX9-FP99), I wasn't paying attention and I underestimated that Moxie Honchkrow with sucker punch.
(Edit: Dammit! Accidentally deleted the video while I was getting rid of old ones. Currently working on another streak but I won't be posting until I either lose or reach 1000, whichever comes first.)

Leads:

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Tailwind
- Helping Hand
- Taunt
- Protect

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite (Center Position)
Ability: Trace
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Protect

This is a tailwind team and once it gets set up, my attackers outspeed everything in the maison except for the scarfed Aerodactyl. Whimsicott sets up tailwind while Gardevoir and Hydreigon use protect (and mega evo), and then start sweeping the enemies with hyper voice. Hydreigon helps deal with the various steel, fire, and poison types that resist fairy, and Whimsicott can help M-Gardevoir get more KOs with helping hand if it survived that first turn. Trace also helps me reveal one of the enemies' ability, and on occasion trace intimidate to gain an advantage (and my leads are not hindered by it either). On a side note, M-Gardevoir can take special hits very well, even surviving a sludge bomb from Gengar or flash cannon from Magnezone as long as it's not critical.

Back-Up:

Talonflame @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Protect

Gyarados @ Muscle Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Att / 228 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Lucario @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

Talonflame is not just a strong physical attacker with priority brave bird, but also a backup tailwind setter just in case the first one runs out and if the increased speed is still needed. Gyarados is also a strong physical attacker and can switch in on any bug or fighting type moves that target Hydreigon and soften the enemies with intimidate. Talonflame is also resistant to bug and fighting but also fairy. Lucario is very useful for having a STAB move that does not miss (I'm looking at you Glaceon!). Both aura sphere and dark pulse enable it to hit the opposite corner and flash cannon is mostly for fairy types. Despite having some resistances that can harm my leads, they can usually plow their way through the enemy leads.

Threats (based on memory):

- Trick Room -
I need to prevent TR from being setup, so when a TR setter appears, it is either taunted or taken down. While most TR setters are weak to dark pulse, one particular threat is Aromatisse which is resistant to dark and immune to taunt if it has aroma veil. (Note that Slowbro and Slowking can have oblivious)

- Wide Guard -
During this streak, I only faced Mienshao4 once but Bastiodon4 appeared on several occasions. Wide guard blocks hyper voice and Bastiodon4 can also KO with metal burst if not careful with sturdy.

- Soundproof -
Pixilated hyper voice means only those with soundproof are immune to it. I usually ignore it deal with it later while I try to KO the other pokemon. Strategy may have to change if something like soundproof Mr. Mime shows up which can threaten Hydreigon.

- Fake Out -
Even though Gardevoir and Hydreigon use protect on the first turn, Whimsicott is vulnerable to fake out and therefore unable to set up tailwind on the first turn. I usually get it up on the second turn, while switching out with the others if they can't survive. Most fake out users I faced aimed for Gardevoir instead however.

- Priority Attacks -
Other than fake out, there are other priority attacks that can put me at a disadvantage. Scizor and Metagross in particular can OHKO M-Gardevoir with a single bullet punch. Switching in Gyarados while having Hydreigon use flamethrower is usually the answer. I also have to be cautious of sucker punch, especially from that movie Honchkrow.

These are the only threats that I can specifically remember. However, becoming paranoid can also give the battle maison an advantage. (I always go into panic mode whenever I see a leading Regigigas.)

I am going to try again for a better streak with this team though. By the way, I have a few questions if anyone can help.
- Does Regigigas's slow start affect it's special attacks?
- Do spread moves still get the damage reduction if it only hits one target? (i.e. one enemy left, two of the enemies use protect, etc)
- I want to start super rotations, but I don't know how to start. What kind of pokemon can I use besides Klefki?

 

[VaporeonIce]

Hello! I've been lurking in this thread for a while, and posting for the first time in this thread (second time in smogon). I've been trying the super triples format and only managed to get a streak of 180, but I thought I'd share anyways. The team I used is fairly to use so it can at least help get the 50 win streak for the trophy. In my losing battle (6XUG-WWWW-WWX9-FP99), I wasn't paying attention and I underestimated that Moxie Honchkrow with sucker punch.

Leads:

Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD/ 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Tailwind
- Helping Hand
- Taunt
- Protect

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite (Center Position)
Ability: Trace
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Psyshock
- Hyper Voice
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 92 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Protect

This is a tailwind team and once it gets set up, my attackers outspeed everything in the maison except for the scarfed Aerodactyl. Whimsicott sets up tailwind while Gardevoir and Hydreigon use protect (and mega evo), and then start sweeping the enemies with hyper voice. Hydreigon helps deal with the various steel, fire, and poison types that resist fairy, and Whimsicott can help M-Gardevoir get more KOs with helping hand if it survived that first turn. Trace also helps me reveal one of the enemies' ability, and on occasion trace intimidate to gain an advantage (and the lead is not hindered by it either). On a side note, M-Gardevoir can take special hits very well, even surviving a sludge bomb from Gengar or flash cannon from Magnezone as long as it's not critical.

Back-Up:

Talonflame @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Protect

Gyarados @ Muscle Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Att / 228 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Protect

Lucario @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

Talonflame is not just a strong physical attacker with priority brave bird, but also a backup tailwind setter just in case the first one runs out and if the increased speed is needed. Gyarados is also a strong physical attacker and can switch in on any bug or fighting type moves that target Hydreigon and soften the enemies with intimidate. Talonflame is also resistant to bug and fighting but also fairy. Lucario is very useful for having a STAB move that does not miss (I'm looking at you Glaceon!). Both aura sphere and dark pulse enable it to hit the opposite corner and flash cannon is mostly for fairy types. Despite having some resistances that can harm my leads, they can usually plow their way through the enemy leads.

Threats (based on memory):

- Trick Room -
I need to prevent TR from being setup, so when a TR setter appears, it is either taunted or taken down. While most TR setters are weak to dark pulse, one particular threat is Aromatisse which is resistant to dark and immune to taunt if it has aroma veil. (Note that Slowbro and Slowking can have oblivious)

- Wide Guard -
During this streak, I only faced Mienshao4 once but Bastiodon4 appeared on several occasions. Wide guard blocks hyper voice and Bastiodon4 can also KO with metal burst if not careful with sturdy.

- Soundproof -
Pixilated hyper voice means only those with soundproof are immune to it. I usually ignore it deal with it later while I try to KO the other pokemon. Strategy may have to change if something like soundproof Mr. Mime shows up which can threaten Hydreigon.

- Fake Out -
Even though Gardevoir and Hydreigon use protect on the first turn, Whimsicott is vulnerable to fake out and therefore unable to set up tailwind on the first turn. I usually get it up on the second turn, while switching out with the others if they can't survive. Most fake out users I faced aimed for Gardevoir instead however.

- Priority Attacks -
Other than fake out, there are other priority attacks that can put me at a disadvantage. Scizor and Metagross in particular can OHKO M-Gardevoir with a single bullet punch. Switching in Gyarados while having Hydreigon use flamethrower is usually the answer.

These are the only threats that I can specifically remember. However, becoming paranoid can give the battle maison an advantage. (I always go into panic mode whenever I see a leading Regigigas.)

I will try again to get a better streak with this team. By the way, I have a few questions if anyone can help.
- Does Regigigas's slow start affect it's special attacks?
- Do spread moves still get the damage reduction if it only hits one target? (i.e. one enemy left, two of the enemies use protect, etc)
- I want to start super rotations, but I don't know how to start. What kind of pokemon can I use besides Klefki?

Nice start! I like the thinking through threats and paying attention to what the AI does when it has those threats. Regarding your questions:

1) No
2) Yes
3) Dual screen users (of which Klefki is the best), clerics (Aromatherapy/Heal Bell), and set-up sweepers are generally the way to go. Wish passers can work nicely, but are a little trickier to use. Chansey, Clefable, and even Mega Audino are all viable clerics; Sylveon is good too, and Hyper Voice gives it more punch than most clerics. Some of them can Wish pass, which is nice (Wish Chansey would be broken as shit in this format). You can look through the lists of Heal Bell/Aromatherapy users to see if something else strikes your fancy. For sweepers, old Maison goodstuffs like Dragonite, Mega Kangaskhan, Garchomp, Cloyster, and Suicune (more of a slow and bulky sweeper, but it does its job nonetheless) can work nicely. I like Gliscor because it walls the shit out of entire teams that are slower than it. Try to fit in Substitute where you can; it's not hard to scout for the AI using the wrong move, and a free Sub can go a long way. A few people have had success with Fire/Water/Grass cores, and that can work quite nicely.

Good luck!

 

[JES]

On my 5th battle with my patented Skill Swapped Slaking Terror double battle team. So far, mostly just useless, pathetic drivel Little Cup Pokemon, plus one NU Kricketune, but I guess it is a good workout.

On the funny side, I had my Skill Swapping Mega Audino Swap a Bunnelby's Pure Power, with the intention of swapping it Slaking. Not that Bunnelby lasted long enough for Nurse Joe to even Swap Pure Power to Slaking. This gives me a bunch of ideas...

 

[TyVip]

I have a question , does pokemon in battle maison have max iv/ev ? The salamence ( not scarf) just speed tie wit my jolly mega kangakhans and OHKO me with an outrage.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

I have a question , does pokemon in battle maison have max iv/ev ? The salamence ( not scarf) just speed tie wit my jolly mega kangakhans and OHKO me with an outrage.

In the Super battles, yes, everything is hex 31's. EVs vary by set1/set2/set3/set4, but they do have mostly full EVs. Mainly 252/252 spreads, there's some that have EVs in 3 stats though. Should be a full breakdown of sets in the OP.

 

[Theron]

In the Super battles, yes, everything is hex 31's. EVs vary by set1/set2/set3/set4, but they do have mostly full EVs. Mainly 252/252 spreads, there's some that have EVs in 3 stats though. Should be a full breakdown of sets in the OP.

What about speed IVs for those with gyro ball or trick room?

 

[cant say]

What about speed IVs for those with gyro ball or trick room?

Nope, afaik everything just has 31 in every IV, even if it has a speed hindering nature

TyVip check this list (also in the OP) for Maison Pokemon sets. At the end of each set there will be a stat listing (eg: HP/Atk, Atk/Spd etc.). If there are two stats listed then they have an even 50/50 split (252 EVs each), if there are three stats listed they have an even split three ways (170/170/170).

 

[atsync]

In XY, the IVs of the Super Maison worked as follows:

• Battles 1-10: All opponents have IVs set to 19
• Battles 11-20: Opponent's IVs are either 19 (set 1 trainers) or 23 (set 2 trainers)
• Battles 21-30: Opponent's IVs are either 23 (set 2 trainers) or 27 (set 3 trainers)
• Battles 31-40: Opponent's IVs are either 27 (set 3 trainers) or 31 (set 4 trainers)
• Battles 41+: All opponents have IVs set to 31

(I'm assuming ORAS is the same).

May as well just assume 31 for everything though since getting long streaks requires you to go beyond the point at which IVs become flawless anyway!

 

[JonTheRed]

Hello! I'm a long-time lurker of this thread, and Smogon as a whole. I got Pokemon X as a Christmas gift one year, set it down after I beat it to do other things, and now that I have new neighbors that love Pokemon, I'm back to it. (They're not terribly competitive, so they've compared me to Paul from the anime many times.) I got into the Maison when I realized all the good stuff like Choice items and the Volt Switch TM were there, but I have few resources to dedicate to Pokemon (I can't afford the other games, so X is all I have to work with, so barring some kind of Wonder Trade buffoonery, you can just forget about things like Suicune). Fortunately, I have enough to at least put a team together to get to 50 wins in Super Singles.

Mega Kangaskhan, Gengar, Scizor

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Power-Up Punch / Return / Earthquake / Sucker Punch

No explanation necessary, I'd imagine. Lead the fight, Mega Evolve, power up, wreck house. Scared of the usual suspects, so I figured I'd find her a partner that was nimble and gave no cares about Fighting moves.

Gengar @ Focus Sash (AKA what I spent my 48 BP on that I got winning normal Singles to unlock Super)
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
Shadow Ball / Dazzling Gleam / Thunderbolt / Destiny Bond

Destiny Bond works like a charm in the Maison, especially since opponents will take any chance they can get to secure a KO. The unusual moveset is due to having so few answers to Water, Flying and Dragon Pokemon in my party, as well as providing a super-effective option against the many Fighting-types I switch Gengar into. I figured I wanted something bulky in the third spot, to tank hits and generally deal with whatever was left. Given that I'd spent so little time collecting Pokemon, had no BP, and have limited options barring some Wonder Trade shenanigans, I approached my neighbors and had them trade to evolve another guy, just as they had with Gengar.

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: sorry, couldn't tell you because I had prepared this one a year ago, but based on the display in Super Training, I think it's the 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD spread in the Choice Band set in Scizor's analysis
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
Bullet Punch / Swords Dance / Aerial Ace / Brick Break

This is the one I'm least happy with, though Scizor's done what it needs to every single time it comes out. Bullet Punch and sometimes SD are the only moves I use anyway, though I did use Aerial Ace on Volcarona2, which would have ended my streak otherwise (Volcarona being both the only Bug and the only Fire-type I feel particularly worried about). I think my original intention from a year ago, before even thinking about the Maison, was to go CB Scizor (the EVs seem to bear that evidence out), though without ORAS, I'd have to round out my four moves on the cleaner here without Superpower. Still, for now, the strategy is generally to finish the match by picking off the remaining foes with Bullet Punch, or come in during Trick Room since it's the slowest thing I've got (in which case I'm probably better off taking Night Slash somewhere on the set to combat the Ghosts and Psychics that Trick Room tends to come from).

Vs. Nita: JGDG-WWWW-WWX9-S8EH
I cheated a little and rearranged my party with the knowledge of Nita's in mind, leading with Gengar and knowing my plans no matter which Force of Nature came first. She led with her scarf Landorus, which uses Extrasensory to aim at Gengar's Psychic weakness, and didn't switch out even as I switched to Scizor and took the hits while Dancing.

Right off the bat, it seems my main issue is that I pretty much have no answer to status. There's two immunities to poison, but there's really nothing to stop paralysis, burn, sleep, or freeze (well, anti-freeze is kind of limited, but I should still do something about it). Scizor's really the only Pokemon I can switch items on, but one Lum Berry versus all the Maison's trickery seems too shaky a solution. I did luck out and scoop an Immunity Gligar from a Horde Encounter, so I can eventually have a Poison Heal Gliscor with minimal trouble, and that thing can basically pretend status doesn't exist. It seems like my best and most accessible option at this point, but I'm certainly open to any other ideas.

Anyway, just thought I'd post, because it really has been a blast reading about the struggles you've all faced in the Maison and all the brainpower that's gone into analyzing the place. I'm probably not going to make it to the leaderboards, but that sure won't stop me from trying!

 

[turskain]

Thanks :)

Because I have 551 atm lol

Let me guess: Klefki in Rotations? Congratulations on #1 if that's the case.

I'm going to jump the gun a bit and assume your streak is in Rotations in this post.



I previously posted that copycat streaks should never happen in the first place, and the streak discussed at the time was the first copycat streak that made top 3. That's what I thought, as beating the original creator at the team is going to take a lot of effort - effort that good players would prefer to put into their own teams, and not those copied from someone else.

What ninjachicken1's streak and ninjaethan's one here have in common is that they were both in Super Rotations. KevinAFCA also played a 310-win streak with Klefki - while it didn't top the leaderboard, it is pretty good and the result of these streaks is that among the top 10 streaks in Super Rotations, there are three copycat streaks, with two of them making top 3 and beating prior records using the team.

That is a heck of a lot - 30% of players who made top 10 used an established leaderboard team in their streak. I think the nature of Rotations is a key reason - with the high amount of randomness and ease of play compared to other modes (especially when spamming Substitute), it makes sense that copying established teams works would work better than in any other mode.

I'm a little ass-blasted about losing #1, but as I've said, I didn't play so good in that streak and I did think it was beatable. Even if I've lost #1, having Klefki at the top of the leaderboard is nice.

Now, my guess about the team and mode could be wrong - but I would bet on the mode being Rotations, at the very least.

 

[JES]

I'm currently at 22. The battle Chatelaine proved to be not much of a problem. As much as I hate to, I'm switching out Heal Bell for Dazzling Gleam on my Mega Audino due to too much status moves, and Fire Punch for Yawn on my Slaking, because Steel types have proven to be problematic.

I could have sworn I also saw a Dusknoir use Will-O-Wisp on her allied Starmie, which missed.

 

[turskain]

On the general case on copying teams and submitting streaks with copied teams, I highly recommend doing it as I said before. I also think it's the fastest way to learn the Maison. There's been a variety of Maison guides, but this one is going to be quick:




Starter's guide to building Battle Maison teams for long streaks

1. Pick a team you like from the leaderboards. Any mode will do, but I recommend Singles (without Durant Entrainment) to get started.

Copy it and play while consulting Maison set data to see what you're up against. You mostly face Set4s after Battle 40. Veterans (who use Legendary Pokémon) are the biggest exception, and can use multiple sets - consult the trainer list and use the search function in the spreadsheet for specifics. Damage calcs are also useful.

Don't look up Maison data in battles 1-40, as most of the sets seen in those battles don't appear after battle 40. With the succesful team you're using, you should breeze past the early rounds most of the time.

2. Play the team for a few hundred battles past battle 40.

Be sure to look up AI sets all the time.

If you lose, try again. See if you could've won the battle by playing differently. The mock battle function in VS Recorder is useful.

3. After completing steps 1 and 2, you now know basics about the kind of opposition you face in the Maison, and can try building a team of your own with your new-found skill and experience.

Scavenge ideas from the thread. Put them on different teams. Try a different mode. Keep consulting the Maison set data whenever you're not sure.

Why? When you are new to the Maison, you are in a catch-22: you need a team to play the Maison and make it far past battle 40 with, and you need Maison experience and skill to build that team. Using an established team gets you into the heart of the Maison right away. Once you've learned the basics, you are in a much better position to build your own team.

You could also bang your head at the Maison with blunt teams and lacking knowledge - but repeated losses will slow down your progress, as you will need to clear battles 1-40 every time. Poor teams may also teach poor lessons (such as "the AI cheats", "Maison is nothing but hax", "getting big streaks is impossible", "Confuse Ray/Double Team/BrightPowder are impossible to win against", etc), whereas with a strong team you can more easily focus on improving your play.

 

[GG Unit]

Right off the bat, it seems my main issue is that I pretty much have no answer to status. There's two immunities to poison, but there's really nothing to stop paralysis, burn, sleep, or freeze (well, anti-freeze is kind of limited, but I should still do something about it). Scizor's really the only Pokemon I can switch items on, but one Lum Berry versus all the Maison's trickery seems too shaky a solution. I did luck out and scoop an Immunity Gligar from a Horde Encounter, so I can eventually have a Poison Heal Gliscor with minimal trouble, and that thing can basically pretend status doesn't exist. It seems like my best and most accessible option at this point, but I'm certainly open to any other ideas.

The nice part is that if anything, you're overprepared for poison because that's the status Kangaskhan cares least about - if it uses Power-up Punch on a Toxic user, odds are the battle will be over before the poison damage starts to add up. That gives you room to tweak stuff to be slightly worse against poison but better against the other statuses.

You're right about Lum Berry not being enough; it only works on a lead that can use the free turn to boost up and KO the status user before it moves again. Anything relying on it to switch in on status will just get slept twice in a row by Crobat or something similar.

If you were to try to play the Maison with only two Pokemon and Durant couldn't be one of them, Gliscor and Kangaskhan would probably net the longest streak. In general, the combo's biggest weakness (and what the 3rd Pokemon will need to cover) will be leads that Gliscor can't switch in on landing a secondary effect on Kangskhan (Rapidash burning with Flare Blitz, Porygon-Z statusing with Tri Attack, Glaceon freezing with Blizzard, and so on). These will be more common after 50 when you face more Veterans with stuff like Moltres, Entei, Articuno and Regice.

 

[Ceveth]

Hi there, been lurking for a while & decided I'd finally step foot in to the Maison.
I'm mostly looking to get some feedback on my hypothesized team before spending time breeding & challenging Super Singles with them.

Mega Charizard-Y
Flamethrower
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Roost (or Dragon Pulse?)

Blaze
Modest
4 Defense / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed

Garchomp

Swords Dance
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Stone Edge (or Dragon Claw?)

Rough Skin
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed

And for the last slot I'll be stealing an already infinitely impressive pokemon;

Suicune

Scald
Icy Wind
Calm Mind
Rest

Pressure
Bold
196 HP / 252 Defense / 60 Speed

They all cover one another's typing pretty well & are all reliable threats by themselves.
The real questions I was looking for answers on are;

Who should I lead with?
Since I'm not very well-versed in the NPCs of the Maison are there any specific threats that stand out?
Will low accuracy coverage moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge give me issues?

Anything other feedback would be greatly appreciated too!

 

[turskain]

Hi there, been lurking for a while & decided I'd finally step foot in to the Maison.
I'm mostly looking to get some feedback on my hypothesized team before spending time breeding & challenging Super Singles with them.

Mega Charizard-Y
Flamethrower
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Roost (or Dragon Pulse?)

Blaze
Modest
4 Defense / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed

Garchomp

Swords Dance
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Stone Edge (or Dragon Claw?)

Rough Skin
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed

And for the last slot I'll be stealing an already infinitely impressive pokemon;

Suicune

Scald
Icy Wind
Calm Mind
Rest

Pressure
Bold
196 HP / 252 Defense / 60 Speed

They all cover one another's typing pretty well & are all reliable threats by themselves.
The real questions I was looking for answers on are;

Who should I lead with?
Since I'm not very well-versed in the NPCs of the Maison are there any specific threats that stand out?
Will accuracy-lacking moves such a potentially Focus Blast or Stone Edge give me issues?

Anything other feedback would be greatly appreciated too!

Stone Edge and Focus Blast are not worth it - Zard and Chomp both have more reliable options and rarely need niche coverage.

Garchomp prefers a Jolly nature. While I haven't used ZardY in Singles much, I think Timid would also be better for it.

If you're using ZardY, it should definitely be ran as the lead as it isn't very good at switching in and it wants to Mega Evolve right away.

On ZardY, Flamethrower, Solar Beam and Dragon Pulse are the best moves; for the fourth move, Sub/Roost or a coverage move (HP Ground for Heatran and Flash Fire users, HP Electric for Gyarados, AncientPower for Moltres/Talonflame) or a Flame Charge gimmick could work.

Outrage is preferable over Dragon Claw in Singles for its massive damage output. For the fourth move, Substitute or a coverage move (Iron Head/Rock Slide/Fire Fang) are the options; I like Substitute the best. If using Substitute, be sure not to put 4 EVs in HP so you can use Substitute four times.

I'm not sold on ZardY in Singles, but Chomp is definitely a good pick to cover its weaknesses. Choice Scarf with an Adamant nature might be preferable for more immediate power as a switch option.

 

[VaporeonIce]

Hi there, been lurking for a while & decided I'd finally step foot in to the Maison.
I'm mostly looking to get some feedback on my hypothesized team before spending time breeding & challenging Super Singles with them.

Mega Charizard-Y
Flamethrower
Solar Beam
Focus Blast
Roost (or Dragon Pulse?)

Blaze
Modest
4 Defense / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed

Garchomp

Swords Dance
Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Stone Edge (or Dragon Claw?)

Rough Skin
Adamant
4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed

And for the last slot I'll be stealing an already infinitely impressive pokemon;

Suicune

Scald
Icy Wind
Calm Mind
Rest

Pressure
Bold
196 HP / 252 Defense / 60 Speed

They all cover one another's typing pretty well & are all reliable threats by themselves.
The real questions I was looking for answers on are;

Who should I lead with?
Since I'm not very well-versed in the NPCs of the Maison are there any specific threats that stand out?
Will low accuracy coverage moves such as Focus Blast or Stone Edge give me issues?

Anything other feedback would be greatly appreciated too!

Do what turskain said. HP Ground is good, but if you're struggling to breed for Hidden Power (and don't want to trade with someone who has one), Earthquake is a decent option in its place. It also hits Tyranitar harder in a pinch, but Tyranitar demolishes you just the same (and your teammates should beat it easily).

I'm not sold on Icy Wind on Suicune for this team. I don't think Garchomp and Mega Charizard Y can capitalize on it as well as stuff like Mega Kangaskhan and Gliscor can, and I feel like Sub would be a better choice. That said, Jumpman has much more experience with it than I do.

Starmie 4 (@ King's Rock with Surf, Psychic,TBolt, Ice Beam) is a big problem for this team. The good news is that, if it comes out first, it will use Surf against Charizard (since you won't be mega-evolved against it yet), meaning you'll only lose if you get flinched on turn 1 and fully paralyzed or flinched by TBolt on turn 2). The bad news is that, if it comes out second or third, a single flinch or full paralysis from TBolt means you're in trouble. And if MegaZardY has 50% health or less, it will be instantly KO'd. You can switch-stall its Ice Beams (switch to Chomp on TBolt, switch back to Suicune on Ice Beam, repeat) and try to beat it with Garchomp, but you run the risk of flinch hax from King's Rock, particularly because Outrage has a really low chance to OHKO. Suicune only takes 37-44% from TBolt, but the risk of flinch hax/paralysis and such is pretty high. This team can definitely still get to 50 wins and maybe 200, but that Starmie is something you really want to watch out for. I don't think these three Pokemon can be engineered to do any better against it than it already does (without compromising their effectiveness against other things too much)

I made a post a while ago with some common threats (that Starmie was one of them): check it out and see how you feel your team fares against them: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-68#post-5468869

The Lati@s sets in particular (especially the White Herb set) stand out in my mind as problems. Fortunately, sun cuts down Thunder's accuracy, but relying on the AI missing isn't a great strategy.

Good luck!

 

[SimicCombine]

I've used Suicune and Garchomp a ton in my Singles streaks. Having used both Leftovers and Sub/Rest/Chesto Suicune, I was blown away by how much more useful sub was. Even against strong special attackers, 1-2 Calm Minds was generally enough to make it so your subs can't be broken in one hit, and a substitute blocks 90% of all possible hax. Strong physical STABs usually have 5 or 10 pp, so they can be stalled out. I've yet to see a coverage move that can take down a sub in one hit. I'd suggest running max Def/Max HP Bold with Scald, Calm Mind, Rest, and Substitute with Chesto Berry.

With regards to Garchomp, it really needs a Jolly nature to not get outsped by the base 100s of the world. Outrage is good over Dragon Claw to net that extra power, but try to use Earthquake as much as possible. For a coverage move, I've fallen in love with Iron Head. It's not amazing coverage, but it hits exactly what you want it to: Lead Aerodactyls so you don't have to lock yourself into Outrage, Fairy types, and Ice type. Yache Berry over Lum berry could also be an option to survive non-STAB Ice attacks. If you run SubCune, you already laugh at almost any status, and a +2 Outrage should get enough KOs for the battle to be over before confusion strikes. I've also had some success with Life Orb for that little extra bit of power, but I preferred Yache.

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

After my previous record of 106, I'm aiming for a new record in Super Singles. I'm at Battle 48 right now and things are going fairly smoothly, but I'd like advice on the team and even a possible replacement.


Ombre Noire (Gengar) (F) @ Gengarite
Timid / Levitate -> Shadow Tag
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Disable
- Shadow Ball

The Black Shadow. It's basically a PerishTrap Gengar, and the strategy is the same as one would in normal battles: generally she uses Perish Song while Mega Evolving first. The AI usually attacks next turn which is when she Protects into Disable. If the opponent might have a dangerous move, she might Protect and Disable first to stay safe. Shadow Ball is for Ghosts immune to Shadow Tag. Overall she does her job pretty well.


Ours Dormant (Snorlax) (M) @ Choice Band
Adamant / Thick Fat
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
- Self-Destruct
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Superpower

The Sleeping Bear. When I finally bred this guy with the right IVs, Nature, and Ability, you can imagine I was overjoyed. He often switches in when Ombre Noire switches out, because he has great Special bulk, the opponent will often have their strongest move disabled, and I won't be switching into a Fighting-type move. Once the opponent faints, I select the appropriate move for dealing with the next Pokemon, and he often uses Self-Destruct to KO, leaving the last Pokemon to Perish. If the opponent is a Fighting-type then I switch to Ombre Noire again. Choice Band Self-Destruct on this thing hurts, by the way.


Ame de Neige (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
Timid / Cursed Body
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond
- Thunder Wave

The Snow Spirit. On the final turn of the first Perish Song, if the opponent proves to be a strong physical attacker or has OHKO moves, I switch to her, leaving the next opponent ready for a Destiny Bond. Ice Beam just to deal with occasional Pokemon who are weak to it. I rarely find myself selecting Thunder Wave; usually it's Taunt (if she has full health) and Destiny Bond. Both her and Ours Dormant generally sacrifice themselves to kill opponent #2 and leave the last Pokemon to Perish. However, I'm not satisfied with her performance as much, especially as priority renders Destiny Bond useless and if she is the last Pokemon, she can't easily kill the opponent like Ours Dormant. I'm definitely open to suggestions for replacing her.


So, what do you think? Please leave suggestions and comments!