Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[cant say]

So in case you guys hadn't heard yet, a recent exploit / bug was discovered involving the Eject Button and Symbiosis Florges giving its partner the item it holds as its partner is forced out of the battle, which gives the item twice its normal power when the Pokemon now holding it enters the field! In case that didn't make sense, here's the original post in the Battle Mechanics Research thread:

Good lord! I knew you could get an item from Symbiosis even when inactive from being switched out by Eject Button, but I never thought it was this bugged.

It's deceptively simple to get the bug going; all that's necessary is getting Eject Button to activate while a Symbiosis ally has an item. The Pokemon that had the Eject Button gets the item, and next time that Pokemon switches in, the item will be in some strange state where it seems to exist more than once.
Note: This only works during the time that Pokemon stays active upon switching back in. If you switch it out later, the item goes back to normal.

• Absorb Bulb activates twice (and presumably Cell Battery, Luminous Moss, and Snowball too)
• Berries that raise stats activate twice (eg. Liechi and Maranga)
• Berries that restore HP activate twice (even if the initial activation brings your HP out of the normal range for the Berry's activation)
• Black Sludge activates twice (both for Poison types and non-Poison types)
  
• Deep Sea Scale and Light Ball have double their effects (4x) (!) (and presumably the other species items too)
  
• Eviolite has double its effects (2.25x) (!)
• Leftovers activates up to 4 times, as seen in the video
• Life Orb activates twice, which doubles the effect (1.69x) and doubles the recoil (10% twice) (!)
• Rocky Helmet damages the attacker twice (!)
• Type-boosting items (Silk Scarf and friends, plus Plates) have double the effect (1.44x)
• Weakness Policy activates twice (!)

That's all I've tested so far, but I think it gives a pretty good idea of how absurdly broken this is. I hope this is patched or fixed in the next game(s), because implementing this on PS would be an absolute pain in the ass. I won't hold by breath though.

It's also worth noting that Leftovers is the only item I've seen activate 4 times; even Black Sludge only activates twice. Oh, and Bug Bite and Pluck don't benefit from eating a "doubled" Berry, it just works normally.

Edit:

• Choice items have double the effect (2.25x)
• Scope Lens has double the effect (+2 crit stages, or 50% crit rate on normal moves)
• Normal Gem does not activate twice

My question for you guys (the Maison brains-trust) is, what Pokemon / item / combination do you think could be devastating when utilising this bug? Leftovers will replenish a Substitute in one turn so perhaps we could see Moody mons make the crossover to Doubles / Triples? Or perhaps some devastating sweepers with a double Life Orb boost (something with Magic Guard / Sheer Force otherwise you'll be taking double recoil), or something haxxy with a double Bright Powder boost? There really are a bunch of crazy possibilities for this glitch and I'm excited to see what you guys come up with.

Would these sort of exploit teams be eligible for the leaderboard? Or would we maybe need a new list just for them? (since there was talk about splitting Durant from non-Durant streaks, which could very well be seen as an exploit to some extent).

 

[Marowak2000]

So in case you guys hadn't heard yet, a recent exploit / bug was discovered involving the Eject Button and Symbiosis Florges giving its partner the item it holds as its partner is forced out of the battle, which gives the item twice its normal power when the Pokemon now holding it enters the field! In case that didn't make sense, here's the original post in the Battle Mechanics Research thread:

My question for you guys (the Maison brains-trust) is, what Pokemon / item / combination do you think could be devastating when utilising this bug? Leftovers will replenish a Substitute in one turn so perhaps we could see Moody mons make the crossover to Doubles / Triples? Or perhaps some devastating sweepers with a double Life Orb boost (something with Magic Guard / Sheer Force otherwise you'll be taking double recoil), or something haxxy with a double Bright Powder boost? There really are a bunch of crazy possibilities for this glitch and I'm excited to see what you guys come up with.

Would these sort of exploit teams be eligible for the leaderboard? Or would we maybe need a new list just for them? (since there was talk about splitting Durant from non-Durant streaks, which could very well be seen as an exploit to some extent).

whilst there could be some interesting and creative combos it'd prob be something that "breaks" the tiers/maison that takes over ..my initial thought is how would you KO chansey?! there must be literally only a couple of mons that could! this would be emphasised more by the fact that you cant switch out so when that mon comes in its item must make it ready to sweep or take on any match up that it comes up against...but u prob already know this!
serene grace pokes with scope lens and high crit hit ratio moves could hit a crit 100% of the time (if my pokeMath is correct!)

 

[turskain]

Hah, funnily enough, I was theorymonning Prankster Eviolite Bold Murkrow with a similar set; I was going to use Feather Dance instead of Flash, to really disable all angle s of attack.

One thing I don't understand about the Klefki in the Mastering the Maison article, though: Why Dazzling Gleam over Draining Kiss? Losing 30 BP but gaining a dedicated heal on a CM Poke seems like a solid trade, and it'd allow an item other than leftovers.

But hell, what do I know, I can't seem to get over 100 wins before losing to bad decisions and getting bored with the Maison.

To be honest, I forgot about Draining Kiss entirely when I started using Klefki, and in practice Dazzling Gleam just worked. The way the set works is that it uses Sub/Protect until it gets a free Substitute due to an erroneous rotation by the AI, which gives it 2 turns of Leftovers recovery (at least one more for the Sub + another Protect) to be able to use Substitute again, and lets it use Calm Mind or Dazzling Gleam safely while behind a Sub, with Calm Mind boosting its SDef so that its Substitute can survive a larger number of attacks on the special side so its Substitutes succeed more often. There's not a lot of opportunities for Draining Kiss recovery when doing this - its main tool for increasing its odds of getting up a Substitute is Calm Mind, and by the time it has enough Calm Minds to have plentiful opportunities to attack and sufficient damage output to KO enemies before running out of Sub/Protect PP, it is usually already set up for victory, or it has failed if the match-up/RNG were not favorable and Klefki was not able to get enough free Subs - or Klefki had to fall back on chipping the enemies with +1/+2 attacks to soften the opposition for its teammates instead of going for a full sweep due to the MU, which favors Dazzling Gleam's higher damage.

I can see at least one match-up where Draining Kiss would be a superior choice, though: opponents using Hail (the move), which puts Klefki in a position where its Substitute usage is bound by its HP due to Hail damage canceling out Leftovers instead of the survival of its Sub like in most cases (Hail typically involves Blizzard, which Klefki has a good time setting up on, and Hail is a status move that lets Klefki get a free Sub, so getting the sub up is not a problem). Draining Kiss could give Klefki the HP it needs to keep using Substitute even without Leftovers recovery.




That Symbiosis glitch sounds exciting, but not game-breaking in the Maison since you need to be running Florges and an Eject Button holder that is holding 0 useful items until the glitch activates, and then activate the glitch successfully in the first place without Florges getting KO'd beforehand or the Eject Button holder getting KO'd or crippled by the attack that sends it flying out. Making the glitch work reliably in most battles seems pretty difficult.

Once you do set it up in a perfect case, though, the double item would grant a free boost without taking any moves, assuming your Eject Button holder was faster and moved on the turn it got ejected on already. To get that free boost, I'm thinking something such as Talonflame with Tailwind or a different Tailwind user to have an alternate mode when setting up the glitch is not viable.

 

[Alphanex20]

Random question about the AI. I know from the article that it will only trigger Lightningrod/Storm Drain once, but I at least assume that's because it "learns" your ability is Lightningrod/Storm Drain from it activating. What I'm asking is will that be the same if you Trace Lightningrod/Storm Drain from the opponent?

The example I have in mind:

Triples Battle, Talonflame on the side, Trace Gardevoir in the center (unevolved M-Gardevoir)

Battle starts, all get sent out, opponent has something like Lightningrod Zebstraika or Manectric in range of Talonflame, Gardevoir traces the ability from them. Talon is weak to electric, so the AI would normally target Talon with electric moves, or will it when it "knows" Gard has Lightningrod? If it would use the elec moves, then Gard can get free boosts and talonflame can get a free turn to attack (or best case scenario set up Tailwind, so there I have a +1/+2 Mega Gardevoir potentially).

Has anyone encountered this situation? I mean, I know Talon is standard in Triples and I can't be the first person to use M-Gard with it...

EDIT: Also wanted to ask if the AI would know Gardevoir's ability changes after it Mega Evolves, or if it would assume that it still has the Traced Ability.

 

[GG Unit]

Random question about the AI. I know from the article that it will only trigger Lightningrod/Storm Drain once, but I at least assume that's because it "learns" your ability is Lightningrod/Storm Drain from it activating. What I'm asking is will that be the same if you Trace Lightningrod/Storm Drain from the opponent?

The example I have in mind:

Triples Battle, Talonflame on the side, Trace Gardevoir in the center (unevolved M-Gardevoir)

Battle starts, all get sent out, opponent has something like Lightningrod Zebstraika or Manectric in range of Talonflame, Gardevoir traces the ability from them. Talon is weak to electric, so the AI would normally target Talon with electric moves, or will it when it "knows" Gard has Lightningrod? If it would use the elec moves, then Gard can get free boosts and talonflame can get a free turn to attack (or best case scenario set up Tailwind, so there I have a +1/+2 Mega Gardevoir potentially).

Has anyone encountered this situation? I mean, I know Talon is standard in Triples and I can't be the first person to use M-Gard with it...

I mean, you should probably err on the side of it being 'smart' if you see it for the first time in an actual battle, but my personal inkling is that the AI would still use the Electric moves at least once. In B/W, I had battles where an enemy I'd already used Worry Seed on would try to Rest when its HP got low even when it had other attack PP remaining. I don't think the AI is aware of broadcasted abilities beyond the extent to which ones like Intimidate, Download, and Defiant affect the Pokemon's stats.

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

So guys, I reached a second streak of 73 on Super Triples with a new team. Let me note that I DID NOT save the battle video nor can I take a picture of the record since my previous record was higher; I actually don't mind if it doesn't go on the leaderboard since it's not impressive in comparison to the other streaks. The only reason I'm posting this is because of how fun it was to use, so, let's get started!

Greninja @ Life Orb
Hasty / Protean
IVs: all 31
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block

Like most Triples teams, I utilize Mat Block Greninja. In my previous 260 team, I kept it in the back, emphasizing the risk of my Pokemon taking Fake Out or paralysis, but since this was a fun team and I didn't expect a long streak, I just threw it in the front. Same Greninja as before meaning the reason for the nature/EVs is because it used to use Gunk Shot and Low Kick. It's a pretty self-explanatory Pokemon and does its job well.


Salamence @ Salamencite
Modest / Intimidate -> Aerilate
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Pulse
- Tailwind

Now, this team was dedicated to Maison Tailwind, hence 0 Speed EVs; Mega Salamence already reaches 140, 280 under Tailwind. Special Salamence works surprisingly well, with Flying-type Hyper Voice working just like Mega Gardevoir's except slightly weaker, but it's still powerful. Salamence's job is to Mega Evolve on the first turn, activate Tailwind under protection, and switch out to another Pokemon right away; I'll explain later. Right now what we should focus on is Pokemon #3...


Chatot @ Focus Sash
Modest / Keen Eye
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpAtk / 148 Spe
- Boomburst
- Heat Wave
- Chatter
- Role Play

Behold the star of the team. With EVs putting Chatot at 130 Speed, it can comfortably outspeed and strike under Tailwind. Under Mat Block's safety on turn 1, Chatot uses Role Play on the newly evolved Mega Salamence to obtain Aerilate and now, I have a free STAB + Aerilate boosted BOOMBURST that I can abuse at full speed. Now, unlike Gardevoir's Hyper Voice and Blastoise's Water Spout, Chatot does not have the power to break through more defensive resists. I think its base SpAtk is only 91, which Boomburst doesn't totally compensate for, but still, it's just really fun to use! Heat Wave for Steels who might cause trouble and Chatter if I REALLY need confusion hax. You might be wondering, "Wait, doesn't Boomburst hurt Salamence, too?" You are right, and sometimes I do leave it in because it doesn't take too much damage, but usually I switch Salamence out to...


Electrode @ Air Balloon
Timid / Soundproof
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Electro Ball
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen
- Taunt

Electrode. Boomburst has no effect on him whatsoever, which means I can safely bring him out to support Chatot and Greninja (if still alive). Now, Electrode is like one of the weakest Pokemon out there, but at 422 Speed under Tailwind, Electro Ball usually gets 120 or 150 power, which still sucks with his nonexistent offensive presence but whatever. Its purpose is to support anyway, with Light Screen keeping my Pokemon alive against Special Attackers (and possibly Boomburst for other Pokemon that switch in; Thunder Wave is obviously for speed control; Taunt is to shut down potential problems like Blissey. But yeah, basically it just comes in to withstand Boomburst.


Clawitzer @ Assault Vest
Quiet / Mega Launcher
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk
- Water Pulse
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Aura Sphere

An anti-TR Pokemon is necessary since I have no way of stopping Trick Room at the beginning other than neutralizing the threat immediately. I didn't like Clawitzer at first since he didn't do much but when it came to a Trick Room team, he did his job well and killed off or luckily flinched/confused a crapload of things. Also, great for sniping across the field.


Aerodactyl @ Razor Fang
Jolly / Pressure
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Wide Guard
- Tailwind
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace

Aerodactyl returns to reprise its role as secondary Tailwind setter, although with a much worse item. Like Clawitzer, there's not much to say except that he does what he does extremely well even without a Focus Sash this time, and even though the flinches were few, they helped out when they happened, so can't really complain about this guy. Wide Guard was pretty useless throughout this run, though.


And there you have it! Again, if you wanna try this, I suggest that you don't aim for a high streak because it won't get there; I'm honestly surprised that I passed 50. Anyway, if you do, have a lot of fun because I sure as heck did! Who knew a team built around Boomburst Chatot could do so well?

Meanwhile, I'll be going back to my old team and making a few changes as well as throwing a Meowstic in there. See you, Smogon community!

 

[mertyville]

I have been trying my luck on Battle Maison Super Rotation and I am currently at 147 wins

battles and prove

Win Nr 147
6ALG-WWWW-WW2M-96RZ
Win Nr 146
VBSG-WWWW-WW2M-8ZCX
Win Nr 139
QE3W-WWWW-WW2M-8ZYM
Win Nr 131
R7QG-WWWW-WW2M-8ZQ4

team

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate -> Aerialate
Nature: Careful
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpD / 252 HP / 4 Atk
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Dragon Dance
- Double-Edge

The Main Attacker on the Team which turn most of the Pokémon into set up fodder. After 2 Dragon Dance I was able to even break through unboosted Metagross with 2 hits.
But usually for annoying Rock and Steel Types there is Earthquake which is a great coverage move with Double-Edge.
Protect has 2 main purposes: To scout centain Pokemon's moveset and to savely receive wishes.

Klefki @ Lightclay
Ability: Prankster
Nature: Bold
IVs: 31/X/31/X/31/31
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SpD
- Foul Play
- Thunder Wave
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Makes sure that Salamence can set up and sweep by setting up dual screens or paralyse specific foes like Venusaur to stop their shenanigans.
Foul Play came once every 11 battles to play by OHKOing things like +4 physical Tentacool.

Sylveon Leftovers
Ability: Pixalate
Nature: Bold
IVs: 31/X/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Wish

Wish in combination with Protect from Mence is a save way to recover Mega Mence HP without risking it getting OHKOed.
Heal Bell takes care of Status like Burn that would otherwise ruin Mega Mence's set up.
Pixalate Hyper Voice came really into play against those annoying Substitute Mandibuzz or Scrafty.

Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 6 HP
- Spore
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb

Back-Up attacker in case Mega Mence dies even with all the things considered. Takes care of Sturdy Rock Types, puts foes into sleep or revenge kill them with Mach Punch.
Rock Tomb was really useful against the Legendary Birds or Regice, when I was on the fence to switch Mence in.

The things I have the most trouble with
*Taunt*
Crobat and Electrode are usually the offenders in this case and are usually paired with good partners like in Crobat's case with something like Ttar to above getting OHKOed by Double-Edge.

*Swagger*
Really annoying and forcing me to keep wish passing to Mence to avoid 2HKOing itself. Luckily the HP investment came handy.

*Encore*
Not a big deal if Klefki is looked into a centain move or I have dual screens to boost with Mega Mence. It usually is a pain if I get locked into a move with Sylveon or am locked into EQ with Mence while my opponent has immunities on his/her side.

*Trick or Switcheroo*
When Klefki or Sylveon get tricked, I am pretty much relying on Mence and Breloom immediate power or set up oppotunities to win games.

*Walrein*
The 100 % hit ratio of Sheer Cold and Fissure is a pain where I usually have to try playing around by saking something to bring in Breloom savely or get at least some Dragon Dances with Mence in predictate rotations so I can savely OHKO it which is risky also because of Brightpowder.

*Poison or Steel Type Substitute users*
Venusaur is a pain to deal with if it is paired with something like Empoleon which both have Substitute and spam moves like Yawn, Toxin or Leech Seed in combination with Protect.

 

[Hughsie28]

Well I just lost my streak on battle #91 using my super doubles team mentioned in my previous post.
(Mega Kang, Weavile, Greninja, Talonflame)

Lost to a veteran who lead with Thundurus-I and Zapdos, knowing the Thundurus would do a prankster t-wave 1st turn and I didn't want to deal with legendaries with a speed disadvantage, I opened with fake out and taunt to stop it resulting in letting my mega-kang die the following turn. The reason I lost was because of a surprise choice scarf terakion who OHKO'd a member of my team resulting in a bad position. Ah well...time to do it again haha

 

[tommy188]

Hi everyone,

After lurking around Smogon for a few years and recently completing my ORAS pokedex, I finally decided to take on the Battle Maison. Ever since Pokémon Emerald I have been intrigued by the Battle facilities, but I have never actually gotten that far, especially since I was never patient enough to EV breed. However, with the new, enhanced breeding mechanics and the possibility get a few good EV pokémon through wonder trade, I was finally brave enough to take on the challenge.

In fact, after getting the trophy of triple and double battles, I took on the Multi Battles. I got to the Chatelaine quite easily, and I decided to see how far I could get. With mixed feelings I lost at battle 95. On the one hand, I was proud that on my first try I got such a high streak, though just falling short a few battles to reach 100 was disappointing. Now, I would like to post my team, and see whether you guys have any suggestions how I could reach a somewhat higher streak. So, here goes:

Greninja @ Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
Timid, 6 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- EQ
- Double-Edge

And, I partnered up with Steven, who used:

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rock Read
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
-Rock Slide
-Thunder Fang
-Fire Fang
-Ice Fang

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Def
-Meteor Mash
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-Hammer Arm

Greninja would use Mat Block at the start of each battle, which served three purposes; first, because Greninja outspeeds most Pokémon it would block all (damaging) attacks, while Aerodactyl would damage one (or two with Rock Slide) of the opposing Pokémon. This is also the second benefit: it's difficult to read what the AI will do with two opposing Pokémon, so I could see what Aerodactyl would try to hit. And of course third, it allows to scout the opponents strategy. Aerodactyl has great type coverage with three Fangs and Rock Slide, so often it would knock out one Pokémon, while Greninja would focus on the other one. Aerodactyl is somewhat frail, and it is easily knocked out by Ice, Electric and Water type moves, though it's Focus Sash usually gives it one extra turn.
Kangaskhan is great as the second one, since it can Fake Out any of the other opponents. I chose Double-Edge over Return, as it's Base power is much higher and therefore the boost is larger, and it allowed me to get rid of opponents that either Aerodactyl or Mega Metagross could not take out. Luckily, recoil damage is applied after the second hit of Parental Bond, so even with Metagross at considerable health and Kangaskhan weakened, I could often knock out the third opponent while Metagross would Bullet Punch the fourth one.

How I lost:

Opponent starts out with Abomasnow and Pinsir. As usual, I start out with Mat Block, but Pinsir outspeeds me and OHKOs me with X-Scissor. Aerodactyl Fire Fangs Abomasnow, but it strikes back with Blizzard, and Snow Warning cancels out Sturdy. Mega Kanga and Mega Meta take out Pinsir and Abomasnow with Fake Out, Double-Edge and Meteor Mash. Then, Volcarona and Infernape come out... Infernal close combats Kangaskhan, who dies immedeatly. Mega Meta is left, but it cannot cope with two fire types and is knocked out by Heat Wave...
So, my question is, how should I have played this differently? Should I have switched to Mega Kanga immediately? I did not expect Pinsir to OHKO Greninja. Furthermore, there was nothing I could do to prevent Abomasnow from knocking out Aerodactyl.

Proof of reaching 95 battles in ORAS Multi with AI: T83W-WWWW-WW2K-VBBJ

So, after posting about my 95 win streak in ORAS AI Multi recently, I wanted to post about the other 4 battle forms, as I defeated the chatelaines in each of these today.

Super Singles

Super Singles
So, the team that I took on Super Singles with is:

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Stance Change
Adamant, 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

Dragonite Lum Berry
Multiscale
Jolly, 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- EQ

Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- EQ
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge
- Fake Out

So, Kangaskhan is the same from my Super Multi challenge; with Parental Bond it's very useful to Double-Edge opponents that have already been weakened. Aegislash is my lead, which tries to set up 3 swords dances before sweeping with either Sacred Sword (preferably), or Shadow Sneak, if there is a ghost type or priority is needed. I must say that with these two moves, there were very little situations it couldn't handle; weaker (or weekend opponents) who would be faster were taken out by Shadow Sneak, while any other opponent would be hit very hard by a +6 Sacred Sword. It's a beast. Dragonite was my 3rd (physical) sweeper, and it worked better when I had Greninja in Kangaskhan's place. However, when I started using Kangaskhan in Super Multi, I wanted to take it to Super Singles as well. I think it would have been better to switch it with Dragonite and leave Greninja, since I mostly used Dragonite to take out any opponents Aegislash couldn't handle with Outrage.
Battle 50: 5GPW - WWWW - WW2M - 8UHU

Super Doubles

Super Doubles

Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Timid, 6HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

Aron @ Berry Juice
Sturdy
Serious, no EV's
- Protect
- Harden
- Endeavor
- Iron Head

Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- EQ
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge
- Fake Out

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Iron Fist
Adamant, 200 HP, 252 Atk, 28 Def, 28 SpDef
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Payback
- Ice Punch

So, Kangaskhan is the same as in Super Singles (and Multi). I would start out with Greninja's Mat Block, which would block the AI's attempts to knock out Aron. Aron would then endeavor either of the two opponents, with Greninja taking it out the following turn. Often, Greninja would outspeed that opponent, with the other one attacking Aron again. Sturdy would activate, triggering Berry Juice, such that it could endeavor the second opponent as well. On turn 3, Greninja would take out opponent 2, while Aron would endeavor opponent 3. Usually, if no opponent's attack had missed, Aron would now only have 1 HP left. On turn 4, Aron would use protect, as usually the AI would direct all attacks at it. On turn 5, Greninja would take out opponent 3, while Aron would use protect again. Of course, 50% of the times this would fail, and I would lose Aron. Then either Conkeldurr or Kangaskhan would come in to finish off number 4; usually Kanga as it could Fake Out opponent 4, with Greninja doing the rest of the damage. This is also almost the scenario for battle 50:
X8RG - WWWW - WW2M - 8UPJ
On a side note, Aron was not supposed to have Harden, but rather Toxic. I had bred it and wanted to try it out, but i forgot to boot up the Toxic TM. I noticed while I was a few battles in, and wanted to change it. However, because there was very little resistance from the AI to this well known strategy, I never actually got around to it.

Super Triples

Super Triples

Politoed @ Damp Rock
Drizzle
Timid, 4 HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump

Gastrodon @ Rindo Berry
Storm Drain
Quiet, 100 HP, 92 Def, 252 SpAtk, 64 SpDef
- Muddy Water
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest, 4HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- Surf
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse

Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb
Swift Swim
Modest, 4 HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- Surf
- Fake Out
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Bisharp @ Focus Sash
Defiant
Adamant, 108 Hp, 252 Atk, 4 Def, 4 SpDef, 140 Spe
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Iron Fist
Adamant, 200 HP, 252 Atk, 28 Def, 28 SpDef
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
-Payback

So, I love triple battles ... There is just so much room for support; Politoed would set up rain with Drizzle, and for the very (very) few times that I encountered another weather team it also carries Rain Dance. Then, Kingdra and Politoed would use Surf, hurting opponent left and right once and middle twice. Gastrodon would receive a free +2 Sp Atk boost due to Storm Drain, after which it would use Muddy Water to counter any remaining Pokémon. Ludicolo is there for any water pokemon that resist this combo, with his absorb bulb providing a similar function as Gastrodon's Storm Drain, while sadly taking damage. Bisharp and Conkeldurr are there to balance out the special/physical share, with Bisharp's Knock Off coming in handy for any unwanted items. I actually forgot to record the chatelaine's battle, so here is battle 57 (which is actually quite fun as it was a sandstorm team):
56YG - WWWW - WW2M - 8VSA

Super Rotation

Super Rotation

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Stance Change
Adamant, 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

Dragonite Lum Berry
Multiscale
Jolly, 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- EQ

Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
Scrappy -> Parental Bond
Adamant, 6HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
- EQ
- Sucker Punch
- Double-Edge
- Fake Out

Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Timid, 6HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse

So, I hate Rotation battles TT.TT... Okay, I must say that I used a recycled team to take them on; the first three pokemon are those from Super Singles, while the fourth is taken from doubles. I didn't even change Mat Block for Grass Knot. Initially, I used the same strategy as in Super Singles, where I would set up Aegislash with Swords Dance, and then try to sweep. However, after a few battles the AI started throwing fire, fairy and psychic types at it, and it would often be knocked out. I know, I should rotate more.. But then, I started leading with Kangaskhan, and after Faking Out, with Double-Edge it would knock out a lot of pokemon, regardless of them rotating or not. Then, after I had knocked out any thread to Aegi, I would rotate to it and start setting up. I initially tried to use Conkeldurr from triples as my 4th pokemon, though it lacked enough type coverage and I was using 4 Physical attackers. Greninja proved to be a much better addition, even while lacking Grass Knot.
Battle 50: K6ZW - WWWW - WW2M - 8UB3

 

[NoCheese]

I've updated things through here. Call_Me_Charlie, that Chatot team is way too fun not to include, so I've added it to the leaderboard. lucariojr and mertyville, nice teams, and as soon as you lose or reach 1000 wins, I'll add you to the list.

Please let me know if you catch any errors or omissions, and continued good luck with the streaks everybody!

 

[Codraroll]

Chatot, Electrode and Clawitzer... teams utilizing Jokémons like that is one of the main reasons why I read this thread. I must say impressive streaks are enjoyable to see too, but all that optimalization in order to reach a long streak is a lot less fun than seeing some completely outlandish combination of Pokémon score a streak past 70 or 80.

I wonder if there could be some kind of "honorable mention" leaderboard for long streaks featuring unusual Pokémon?

 

[Altissimo]

A team with Chatot and Electrode, of all things. Well then. This is just revitalizing my wish to see Flareon as a central part of a team (but I highly doubt that is gonna happen)

Nice job thinking outside the box. I love teams like that.

 

[Scazza]

So i hit 200 but was devastated to see a team I used was already on the high scores (but legit Aegislash, Dragonite and Greninja is an amazing combination). So i went back to the drawing borad and just hit past the 100 mark with this team:

Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Adamant
Moxie
-Knockoff
-Super Power
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge

He is the lead Pokemon. Pretty standard set, use either Earthquake or knockoff 90% of the time. Super power drop isn't too bad and is usually patched by moxie, stone edge is there to nail the tanky flying Pokemon

Arcanine @ Life Orb
Adamant
Intimidate
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Health
-Flare Blitz
-Close Combat
-Extreme Speed
-Crunch

My switch in and coverage pokemon. Occasionally get trapped into an unfavourable match up with Krookodile so this guy is my switch in. Hit like a truck with Flareblitz and also has CC for those types that resist Flare Blitz. Crunch is good for the Chandelure (though is weaker then Flareblitz most of the time). Extreme speed to pick off those weak guys. Coud probably use an expert belt, but then wont hit the neutrals as hard.

Kangaskhan @ kangaskhanite
Adamant
Scrappy
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Health
-Sucker Punch
-Return
-Power Up Punch
-Drain Punch

Needs no introduction, we all know how broken he is. Struggles with ghost, but the other 2 pokeon deal well with them, if i need to be wary of their last Pokemon being ghost i won't mega evolve until I see it and rely on scrappy. I use Drain punch over Earthquake or fake out as it adds some sort of bulk to it via recovery.

 

[Marowak2000]

So i've just bred a 5iv poison heal Gliscor but being the unconcentrating idiot that I am she's Jolly not Careful..should I go back to the drawing board or will I get away with investing all ev's in def/sdef?

 

[Scazza]

So i've just bred a 5iv poison heal Gliscor but being the unconcentrating idiot that I am she's Jolly not Careful..should I go back to the drawing board or will I get away with investing all ev's in def/sdef?

Personally, I believe i shouldn't be too bad and should still work rather well. Ive had a number of cases where i have used wrong natures/EV spreads on Pokemon and gotten relatively far. In this case the speed will actually help with stalling using protect + sub, if you chose to go that route.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Chatot, Electrode and Clawitzer... teams utilizing Jokémons like that

/Overexaggerated sputtering, violent eye twitch

If I had any sort of tolerance for the conceptual horseshit that is political correctness, I'd be insisting that the proper term is "niche." ;P

 

[Codraroll]

^Hey, I had to fulfill the "rule of three" somehow. And Clawitzer is not a 'mon I've seen used a lot. But Chatot and Electrode are definitely unconventional.

 

[faith_grins]

So i've just bred a 5iv poison heal Gliscor but being the unconcentrating idiot that I am she's Jolly not Careful..should I go back to the drawing board or will I get away with investing all ev's in def/sdef?

Without knowing the rest of your team and assuming you're talking about Singles, I would say if you're going to run Jolly, you should hit 133 speed. (12HP, 4Atk, 196Def, 252SpDef, 44Speed is what I'd run.) That's just after the first stat bump for Jolly, and it outpseeds Medicham4, Tornadus2, Lati@s1, and Kingdra4, all of which are not outsped by 126 (uninvested Jolly), carry at least one scary move it's useful to stall out, and are things which a team might be struggling to find an answer for. For anything less than that, you would get better performance by rebreeding for a Careful nature.

I mean, if what you really want is to fully invest in Defense and Special Defense, there aren't a whole lot of situations that will come up which make the Jolly nature the thing that is going to ruin you. (Most of them involve either SpDef drops or Calm Mind attackers.) But I say that if you're running a Jolly nature anyway, you may as well make good use of it and give Gliscor some outs against things that would ordinarily worry her.

 

[SwampySwampert]

^Hey, I had to fulfill the "rule of three" somehow. And Clawitzer is not a 'mon I've seen used a lot. But Chatot and Electrode are definitely unconventional.

I've used the traded Corsola before, and it's eked out a few battles for me in Super Doubles just by toxic stalling.

 

[Marowak2000]

Personally, I believe i shouldn't be too bad and should still work rather well. Ive had a number of cases where i have used wrong natures/EV spreads on Pokemon and gotten relatively far. In this case the speed will actually help with stalling using protect + sub, if you chose to go that route.

Without knowing the rest of your team and assuming you're talking about Singles, I would say if you're going to run Jolly, you should hit 133 speed. (12HP, 4Atk, 196Def, 252SpDef, 44Speed is what I'd run.) That's just after the first stat bump for Jolly, and it outpseeds Medicham4, Tornadus2, Lati@s1, and Kingdra4, all of which are not outsped by 126 (uninvested Jolly), carry at least one scary move it's useful to stall out, and are things which a team might be struggling to find an answer for. For anything less than that, you would get better performance by rebreeding for a Careful nature.

I mean, if what you really want is to fully invest in Defense and Special Defense, there aren't a whole lot of situations that will come up which make the Jolly nature the thing that is going to ruin you. (Most of them involve either SpDef drops or Calm Mind attackers.) But I say that if you're running a Jolly nature anyway, you may as well make good use of it and give Gliscor some outs against things that would ordinarily worry her.

Ur right I should've given a bit more team info! I'm thinking Mega-scizor (sub/SD) and going to try gyarados as a lead and want gliscor to sub and poison heal to stop status and stall when needed..its not a strat I use much as I'm more a fan of doubles but know I need to change my 'Hulk smash' thinking if I want to get further in singles so going for score because 1) I know he works so problem will be me not him if it doesn't work out! and 2) they each cover the others X4 weaknesses...does anyone use him as a lead or just as a def pivot / stall?
And I did check what his uninvested stat would give and where he'd end up on the speed tier and noticed the bulk of mon on 132 and if it'd be worth getting the jump on them, I like the look of ur ev spread and will certainly start with jolly on that spread, if only to see if we can work together!

 

[NoCheese]

Trick Room Pokemon everywhere, know that ReptoAbysmal has your back and stands ready to defend your honor!

 

[GG Unit]

Battle 1560 will probably be my last one with this team on this streak. X77W-WWWW-WW2K-UC5T. If you've never seen Chansey use Gallade4 as set-up bait, that would be the video to watch. Again, if you want to get into the Maison but the idea of spending 2 weeks SRing for a good Suicune seems daunting, Chansey does a pretty good job itself.

Other close-ish calls after 1000
-----------------------

#1024: 4th time against lead Pinsir. This time I use my new-and-improved strategy of switching to Chansey, which gets Guillotined on the switch. So the 4 times I've faced one, it would have OHKOed Kangaskhan all 4 times had I kept it in (3 for 3 on Guillotine and the one time it used Close Combat was a critical hit). Gliscor Protects for Guillotine #2, then the third one misses. Kangaskhan gets to +3 while Pinsir struggles and sweeps through Braviary and Floatzel.

#1142: Kangaskhan gets to +2 KOing lead Probopass. Infernape forces it out with Close Combat and Flare Blitzes Gliscor before being KOed. Remember when I said there could be some set-up sweepers coming in after Infernape that would be quite worrisome? Well, here's Talonflame. Remember when I said that I had some battles that probably would have resulted in me getting swept if Gliscor missed Toxic? Well, Gliscor missed Toxic as it used Swords Dance. After KOing Gliscor with Brave Bird, Talonflame then OHKOs Chansey thanks to a critical hit and a 5/16ths damage roll on top of it. Shit. Now my only hope is that Talonflame doesn't have Gale Wings so Kangaskhan can finish it off with Sucker Punch. Just kidding - Chansey has such an obscene amount of HP that Talonflame KOed itself with recoil damage. GM3W-WWWW-WW2K-URPH

#????: Didn't save a video, but this was probably the scariest one of the entire streak. What happened was my usual opener against Porygon2 - switch Chansey in on the Thunder Wave so I don't have to worry about a Tri Attack freeze/burn (yes, Chansey dominates special attackers so thoroughly that I welcome full paralysis for the PP it helps conserve), stall it until it's using Shadow Ball, Seismic Toss it 3 times, and bring Kangaskhan in to go Mega and KO it with Power-Up Punch. Dragonite came out 2nd and it barely survived Return thanks to Multiscale. It also crit Kangaskhan with Dragon Rush, which put Kangaskhan within range to be taken out by an Extreme Speed the following turn. I brought Gliscor in on Extreme Speed because once Dragonite's stalled out of Dragon Rush, Gliscor can set up on it. The first Dragon rush flinches, so I Protect with Gliscor and am going to use Toxic the following turn to get Dragonite off the field, but Dragonite gets another critical hit and KOs. Chansey takes a Dragon Rush, doesn't flinch, and KOs with Seismic Toss. Last Pokemon is Blissey, which was very scary because Return doesn't OHKO and Kangaskhan was at low enough health for Mud Bomb or a turn of Toxic damage to KO. Luckily Blissey uses Minimize on the first turn, which allows Chansey to get a Substitute up and stall until Blissey struggles to death.

I'm extremely glad I won that one because the loss would have been on me for blindly trusting the Showdown damage calculator and being led astray. You see, my strategy against lead Porygon2 only allowed Kangaskhan to set up to +1 because according to the calculator, Power-Up Punch had a chance of not taking out Porygon2's 92 remaining HP had Chansey only Seismic Tossed twice, and I didn't want to risk paralysis. However, the calculator does not account for the 2nd hit of PuP coming from +1 Attack, and all this time I could have been getting to +2 for free rather than +1. That extra boost would have allowed Kangaskhan to do "87.3-103%" to Dragonite according to the Showdown calculator, which is actually much more than that and a guaranteed KO because the 2nd hit occurs without Multiscale. That's the difference between having to sweat it out and having a 3-0 victory that ends with all three team members at 100% health.

I played pretty badly and lost my streak at 2340. ZMVG-WWWW-WW2M-MHEV

After 1560 I switched to VaporeonIce's team with my Chansey set in its place. In battle 2341, I lost by going on tilt against a Chandelure lead. Normally, what happens when I lead off against Chandelure is that Chansey comes in, PP stalls the 10 Heat Waves, and from there, I have to decide whether to sacrifice Aegislash or Chansey so Salamence can either set up completely (if it doesn't have Infiltrator) or get to +6 with a burn. This time, I was thrown off because I could not find who the hell Madame Inga was supposed to be (obviously the name got changed from XY) and wasn't keeping track of how many Heat Waves and Calm Minds Chandelure had used as a result. That enabled Chandelure, which had used more Calm Minds more quickly than any other I'd faced (usually it's at +2 by the time it runs out of Heat Wave, but this time was at +4), to hit +6 Evasion Chansey back-to-back times (9% chance) to take it out; if one of those missed or if it didn't have Infiltrator, it's PP stalled.

So that means I have to use Shadow Sneak and then see if broken Uber mon Salamence can finish off Chandelure and take on the other two team members. That should usually work out, but Inga just happened to have a Weavile come out 2nd. Ironically, unboosted Aegislash would've had a better chance at pulling this one out had I saved it for last there. Oh well - once I had the "longest current non-Durant" streak I was hoping to get to some arbitrary number like 2500 or 3000 before switching teams again. There were definitely quite a few battles with this team against Taunt or Earthquake/Rock Slide users that made me long for the fast-paced action of setting up Glalie, which lets you know the extremes to which you have to go in order to defeat the lead with a set-up Pokemon as often as possible. If I were to try that team again, I'd probably switch in Chansey against a lot more -2 or -3 physical attackers just because it sets up more quickly than a Salamence that's having its Sub broken every other turn.

team from 1560 to 2340

Salamence | Salamencite | Intimidate/Aerilate
Jolly | 4 HP, 252 Atk, 12 SpD, 236 Spe
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Roost

Aegislash | Leftovers | Stance Change
Adamant | 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

Yes, 81 speed for this. I preferred staying in and KOing stuff like Swampert, Empoleon, Whiscash, and Wailord (!) with Sacred Sword. The only disadvantage it has compared to 79 Speed is that Sturdy Magnezone4 gets to hit it in Blade Forme, but if that thing comes out 2nd, Chansey is switching in and setting up.

Chansey | Eviolite | Natural Cure
Bold | 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss
- Minimize
- Substitute

Intimidate made it even easier to set up on leads like Luxray and Electivire to the point that I was seriously considering dropping enough HP EVs into Speed (80) to allow Chansey to outspeed Wailord; that would be an easier way to PP stall than hoping Wailord doesn't hit/crit Salamence on the switch with Hydro Pump or freeze Aegislash with Blizzard.

I never felt as though I needed any extra attack-reducing power beyond Intimidate and King's Shield, which is already overkill against non-boosters when Chansey can all but eliminate repeated critical hits and secondary effects with Sub and Minimize. Salamence can go Mega at the beginning of the battle and easily get to at least +4 with Sub against leads like Gastrodon, Quagsire, Hippowdon, and Swampert (the secret against Rest users is to keep your Dragon Dances equal to their Curses so you can consistently do about 50% to them and bait them into using Rest, and from there you can either heal or boost for free), and Chansey's Sub/Minimize enables it to set up on and either defeat or PP stall leads like Steelix, Umbreon, and Gigalith. Everything else that uses Curse can't touch Aegislash. Dragon Dance is the same; once Salamence is above +2, the only stuff standing up to it would be some defensive set-up bait for one of the other two.

 

[Marowak2000]

So im learning how to use stallscor and can certainly see why he helps teams sit so high on the leaderboard, but I don't like earthquake, it's not really strong enough to land KO's that aren't supereffective and obviously can't hit anything that flys or levitates...im looking to see if there's anything better but my question is has everyone tried them all already but then just settled for EQ because the alternatives aren't any better?
Alts that im considering are:
1) thunderfang team doent like bulky water teams but 95 acc and scor isn't really the one to deal with them unless he's stalled out all atk moves
2) knock off I do like this move in the maison and can be the difference between having to take an extra hit..i like it to the point that I got it on M-Scizor over bug bite so if scor carries the move I can give Scizor his 2nd stab back!
3) Aerial ace low power but would get STAB and would mean that evasion boosters are a non-issue
4) Return high power but similar issue with EQ in that it comes with an immunity and Skarmory will still laugh in my face!
Opinions or previous experiences?

 

[NoCheese]

I've got an EV question for our resident Chansey experts VaporeonIce and GG Unit. So far, all the big Chansey streaks I've seen use a "max physical defense" spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. Given Chansey's poor base Defense and the multiplier effect of Eviolite, maxing the Defense EVs is obviously correct.

What I'm less certain about, however, are the HP EVs. Chansey's Special Defense is pretty enormous without any boosting at all, which weighs in favor of doing everything one can for physical bulk, but Chansey's even greater base HP mean that the percentage impact of those HP EVs seems quite small, and I'm interested in the possibility of pushing special bulk into the stratosphere instead.

With max HP and Def (and assuming 4 Speed EVs), a flawless Bold Chansey has level 50 stats of:
357 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 125 (187) / 71

With max Def and SpD instead, the stats become:
325 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 157 (235) / 71

Because of Chansey's huge base HP, 252 HP EVs only give Chansey about 10% more HP than an uninvested set, while the Special Defense EVs provide around a 25% boost in Special Defense.

The $64,000 questions thus become 1) Are there any special attackers in the Maison where the extra special bulk would help Chansey, or is she so specially bulky already that this higher special bulk is moot? 2) Are there any physical attackers that threaten Chansey without the HP investment but are more reliably beatable with that 10% boost in HP? 3) How much more common are maison Pokemon that affirmatively answer question 2 than question 1?

Clearly, the HP-maxing spread works fine, as your massive streaks demonstrate, but I'm interested if you had any specific theorymoning or battle experiences that make you confident that HP maxing was a better choice than boosting SpD? I strongly suspect you did, and even if not at the level of specific calculations, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Either way, maybe I'll play around with SpD boosted Chansey just to try out the alternative.

EDIT: I guess that the relatively small percentage boost in HP from maxing the HP EVs also weighs in favor GG Unit's consideration of moving some EVs from HP to Speed to outspeed Wailord4. So the question then becomes whether a spread of 172 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 84 is better than a spread of 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 172 / 84?

EDIT2: 4000 posts in this thread!? Impressive stuff, folks!!

 

[tofucocoa]

OK, so I fucked up and lost just shy of 600. Basically I got a little too greedy against a Veteran's Terrakion/Regice lead and tried to pick up a double KO right from the start when I could've easily switched into cress/conk. I got bopped by scarf Terrakion, needless to say. Oh well, here's my team/proof.

Hide

Pictures taken from my capture card, before someone asks.

I don't remember specific EVs, but you can figure them out with a damage calculator. My Landorus has 29 in Def/SpD, and Cresselia has 30 SpA / 28 SpD, courtesy of user: Level 51
https://pokepast.es/37bcbfbacb6add82

I'm kinda bummed right now, so I don't feel like explaining the team again. So here's the first post I made about it. http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-159#post-6400182