Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[cant say]

I've got an EV question for our resident Chansey experts VaporeonIce and GG Unit. So far, all the big Chansey streaks I've seen use a "max physical defense" spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. Given Chansey's poor base Defense and the multiplier effect of Eviolite, maxing the Defense EVs is obviously correct.

What I'm less certain about, however, are the HP EVs. Chansey's Special Defense is pretty enormous without any boosting at all, which weighs in favor of doing everything one can for physical bulk, but Chansey's even greater base HP mean that the percentage impact of those HP EVs seems quite small, and I'm interested in the possibility of pushing special bulk into the stratosphere instead.

With max HP and Def (and assuming 4 Speed EVs), a flawless Bold Chansey has level 50 stats of:
357 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 125 (187) / 71

With max Def and SpD instead, the stats become:
325 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 157 (235) / 71

Because of Chansey's huge base HP, 252 HP EVs only give Chansey about 10% more HP than an uninvested set, while the Special Defense EVs provide around a 25% boost in Special Defense.

The $64,000 questions thus become 1) Are there any special attackers in the Maison where the extra special bulk would help Chansey, or is she so specially bulky already that this higher special bulk is moot? 2) Are there any physical attackers that threaten Chansey without the HP investment but are more reliably beatable with that 10% boost in HP? 3) How much more common are maison Pokemon that affirmatively answer question 2 than question 1?

Clearly, the HP-maxing spread works fine, as your massive streaks demonstrate, but I'm interested if you had any specific theorymoning or battle experiences that make you confident that HP maxing was a better choice than boosting SpD? I strongly suspect you did, and even if not at the level of specific calculations, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Either way, maybe I'll play around with SpD boosted Chansey just to try out the alternative.

EDIT: I guess that the relatively small percentage boost in HP from maxing the HP EVs also weighs in favor GG Unit's consideration of moving some EVs from HP to Speed to outspeed Wailord4. So the question then becomes whether a spread of 172 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 84 is better than a spread of 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 172 / 84?

I can't answer for the Maison specifically without sitting down and actually looking through threats, but I know that Chansey is always EV'd with max Def/SpD for OU / Battle Spot as like you said, the HP investment equates to a very small change overall. But that's probably a more 'cover all bases' spread which works better in a PvP environment. Here in the Maison where you know the exact threats that Chansey is used to check you can probably get away with a fully physical HP / Def spread (or maybe even a more specialised spread!).

Imma just let Vaporeon and GG answer, lol.

 

[VaporeonIce]

I've got an EV question for our resident Chansey experts VaporeonIce and GG Unit. So far, all the big Chansey streaks I've seen use a "max physical defense" spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. Given Chansey's poor base Defense and the multiplier effect of Eviolite, maxing the Defense EVs is obviously correct.

What I'm less certain about, however, are the HP EVs. Chansey's Special Defense is pretty enormous without any boosting at all, which weighs in favor of doing everything one can for physical bulk, but Chansey's even greater base HP mean that the percentage impact of those HP EVs seems quite small, and I'm interested in the possibility of pushing special bulk into the stratosphere instead.

With max HP and Def (and assuming 4 Speed EVs), a flawless Bold Chansey has level 50 stats of:
357 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 125 (187) / 71

With max Def and SpD instead, the stats become:
325 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 157 (235) / 71

Because of Chansey's huge base HP, 252 HP EVs only give Chansey about 10% more HP than an uninvested set, while the Special Defense EVs provide around a 25% boost in Special Defense.

The $64,000 questions thus become 1) Are there any special attackers in the Maison where the extra special bulk would help Chansey, or is she so specially bulky already that this higher special bulk is moot? 2) Are there any physical attackers that threaten Chansey without the HP investment but are more reliably beatable with that 10% boost in HP? 3) How much more common are maison Pokemon that affirmatively answer question 2 than question 1?

Clearly, the HP-maxing spread works fine, as your massive streaks demonstrate, but I'm interested if you had any specific theorymoning or battle experiences that make you confident that HP maxing was a better choice than boosting SpD? I strongly suspect you did, and even if not at the level of specific calculations, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Either way, maybe I'll play around with SpD boosted Chansey just to try out the alternative.

EDIT: I guess that the relatively small percentage boost in HP from maxing the HP EVs also weighs in favor GG Unit's consideration of moving some EVs from HP to Speed to outspeed Wailord4. So the question then becomes whether a spread of 172 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 84 is better than a spread of 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 172 / 84?

EDIT2: 4000 posts in this thread!? Impressive stuff, folks!!

I didn't run any specific calcs; I just felt like the max Defense was the best choice when I was planning. There was never a single battle where I felt like more SpDef was necessary; the only time I can remember where Chansey fainted to a special attack was a Moonblast + 2x crit Focus Blast Gardevoir4 (when I should have just Softboiled after it hit me with Moonblast, since Chansey can take two crit Focus Blasts if there's no SpDef drop).

I do think the optimal spread depends on the set, particularly when it comes to Speed. For the set I used, the biggest Special Attacking threats I can come up with are Suicune1 (since you'll waste bunches of PP stalling it out and might actually run out of Growl thanks to Pressure), Competitive Milotic4 (since you don't want to Growl it), and Volcarona4 or Chandelure4 if you repeatedly miss with Toxic (though GG Unit's experience suggests that at least Chandelure4 can be stalled out quite comfortably without Toxic, but I'm not sure how much of a role Minimize plays in that). I have beaten every one of those opponents numerous times and never actually been worried.

I maximized Defense for general survivability, not for a specific threat. It's worth noting, but rarely relevant, that a 252/252+ full-health Chansey has a 43.7% chance of surviving a +2 Garchomp4 crit Earthquake (and a 27.3% chance to survive two unboosted Garchomp4 crit Earthquakes), while a 0/252+ Chansey will always be OHKO'd. 252HP also has a 25% chance to survive a Terrakion1 Close Combat, compared to an 18.7% chance for 0HP. 252HP Chansey always survives a crit Sacred Sword from Terrakion3 and 4; 0HP has a 50% chance of fainting. I wanted to hit Garchomp4, as well as any Terrakion set that MIGHT be Terrakion3, with Toxic and switch-stall them out with Salamence and Aegislash, so surviving their attacks did make a difference. That said, that was my plan for when they came in against Chansey after she KO'd the lead; I had different plans for them when they were in the lead spot. Mostly, though, I used max HP because I did expect Chansey to have a little bit of damage after KO'ing an opposing lead, and I liked the added cushion from the HP investment. Consecutive crit physical attacks did somewhat scare me (particularly after using the ultra-janky Quagsire), and I wanted as much of a buffer against them as possible.

Notably, my set didn't run Sub, so it had no good way to protect itself from Wailord4 Fissures. Because GG Unit's set has Sub, the extra Speed to outpace Wailord4 is MUCH more valuable than the extra HP. In retrospect, the extra Speed would have allowed Chansey to hit Wailord with Seismic Toss (only risking a Fissure KO once), then allowed me to bring in Mence and KO with Return (which falls 49HP short of a OHKO unboosted with a min damage roll). But my typical strategy against Wailord4, when it went badly, generally resulted in Mega Mence with a Sub and at least four Dragon Dances, even if both teammates were KO'd. I see that as a better state to be in than unboosted Mega Mence + full-health Aegislash + fainted Chansey in most match-ups. That said, the risk to Chansey is relatively low (Wailord often doesn't use Fissure when it "should"), so it comes down to personal preference.

 

[Lumari]

So im learning how to use stallscor and can certainly see why he helps teams sit so high on the leaderboard, but I don't like earthquake, it's not really strong enough to land KO's that aren't supereffective and obviously can't hit anything that flys or levitates...im looking to see if there's anything better but my question is has everyone tried them all already but then just settled for EQ because the alternatives aren't any better?
Alts that im considering are:
1) thunderfang team doent like bulky water teams but 95 acc and scor isn't really the one to deal with them unless he's stalled out all atk moves
2) knock off I do like this move in the maison and can be the difference between having to take an extra hit..i like it to the point that I got it on M-Scizor over bug bite so if scor carries the move I can give Scizor his 2nd stab back!
3) Aerial ace low power but would get STAB and would mean that evasion boosters are a non-issue
4) Return high power but similar issue with EQ in that it comes with an immunity and Skarmory will still laugh in my face!
Opinions or previous experiences?

Earthquake is pretty much objectively the best fit honestly. Gliscor should focus primarily on PP stalling and then on Toxic stalling, and it should only use Earthquake if those other two things aren't possible / necessary, which is:
-when it needs to damage a Toxic-immune foe (i.e. the more damage on these foes the better);
-when it needs to finish off a slower foe that would otherwise break its Sub right before succumbing to Toxic damage (e.g. Gliscor has a Sub up against a Vaporeon that will faint to Toxic damage the next turn; Vaporeon is slower, so then it's obviously better to just finish it off right away. I.e. the more damage on neutral targets the better);
-in a couple niche scenario's like on Jolteon's / Aurorus's recharge turn after they use Hyper Beam.
So yeah, since the only two Toxic-immune types in Poison and Steel are conveniently weak to Ground and Earthquake is the strongest move Gliscor has at its disposal, these three points considered Earthquake is Gliscor's best attacking option (in most cases--don't know your team so can't determine if your case would be an exception)...

As for your alternate options:
1) Neutral STAB Earthquake is stronger than super effective Thunder Fang (e.g. 4 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 82-97 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO vs. 4 Atk Gliscor Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 72-86 (30.3 - 36.2%) -- 41.9% chance to 3HKO) so bulky Water-types are no valid argument, with the exception of Gyarados I guess, which Thunder Fang doesn't even 2HKO anyway and should just be PP stalled if it switches in on Gliscor
2) I don't really see why you would like Knock Off so much (apart from as a pretty legit coverage move on a boosting sweeper); afaik there honestly aren't too many scenario's where the item removal is worth the turn using the move (e.g. say you want to remove an evasion item; by using Knock Off, you've already wasted the turn you _might_ have ended up losing to a miss, not to mention Gliscor is one of the very few Pokemon that can actually afford a miss once in a blue moon because of that outrageous recovery), and after you remove the foe's item, Earthquake is like 2,5 times as strong :/
3) Gliscor poops on pretty much any relevant evasion booster as is by simply using Toxic (which only needs to hit once, of course), not to mention Aerial Ace's perfect accuracy doesn't make it an automatic win for Gliscor (e.g. Zapdos2 obviously gives negative fucks about Aerial Ace)
4) It's weaker than Earthquake and faces the same issue, not worth using imo

 

[Marowak2000]

Earthquake is pretty much objectively the best fit honestly. Gliscor should focus primarily on PP stalling and then on Toxic stalling, and it should only use Earthquake if those other two things aren't possible / necessary, which is:
-when it needs to damage a Toxic-immune foe (i.e. the more damage on these foes the better);
-when it needs to finish off a slower foe that would otherwise break its Sub right before succumbing to Toxic damage (e.g. Gliscor has a Sub up against a Vaporeon that will faint to Toxic damage the next turn; Vaporeon is slower, so then it's obviously better to just finish it off right away. I.e. the more damage on neutral targets the better);
-in a couple niche scenario's like on Jolteon's / Aurorus's recharge turn after they use Hyper Beam.
So yeah, since the only two Toxic-immune types in Poison and Steel are conveniently weak to Ground and Earthquake is the strongest move Gliscor has at its disposal, these three points considered Earthquake is Gliscor's best attacking option (in most cases--don't know your team so can't determine if your case would be an exception)...

As for your alternate options:
1) Neutral STAB Earthquake is stronger than super effective Thunder Fang (e.g. 4 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 82-97 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO vs. 4 Atk Gliscor Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Vaporeon: 72-86 (30.3 - 36.2%) -- 41.9% chance to 3HKO) so bulky Water-types are no valid argument, with the exception of Gyarados I guess, which Thunder Fang doesn't even 2HKO anyway and should just be PP stalled if it switches in on Gliscor
2) I don't really see why you would like Knock Off so much (apart from as a pretty legit coverage move on a boosting sweeper); afaik there honestly aren't too many scenario's where the item removal is worth the turn using the move (e.g. say you want to remove an evasion item; by using Knock Off, you've already wasted the turn you _might_ have ended up losing to a miss, not to mention Gliscor is one of the very few Pokemon that can actually afford a miss once in a blue moon because of that outrageous recovery), and after you remove the foe's item, Earthquake is like 2,5 times as strong :/
3) Gliscor poops on pretty much any relevant evasion booster as is by simply using Toxic (which only needs to hit once, of course), not to mention Aerial Ace's perfect accuracy doesn't make it an automatic win for Gliscor (e.g. Zapdos2 obviously gives negative fucks about Aerial Ace)
4) It's weaker than Earthquake and faces the same issue, not worth using imo

My warming towards knock off comes from firstly Azumarill and also Sczior where for Scizor it complements B'punch better then bug bite does and if it doesn't KO they fall into a boosted B'punch range. For a lot of maison threats also it's their item which turns them from 'meh' to 'threat' or even removing a sitrus berry to turn a would be 3hKO into a 2hKO, brightpowder users etc.. I guess iv found it usefull as coverage with 2 priority users so understand if it wouldn't really work as well with Gliscor..the rest I thought as much, I guess I don't like being laughed at by skarmory who historically has been set up fodder and the day will come where I get left 1 on 1 with him..hoping calculating I got enough PP to see him struggle to death!

 

[GG Unit]

I've got an EV question for our resident Chansey experts VaporeonIce and GG Unit. So far, all the big Chansey streaks I've seen use a "max physical defense" spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. Given Chansey's poor base Defense and the multiplier effect of Eviolite, maxing the Defense EVs is obviously correct.

What I'm less certain about, however, are the HP EVs. Chansey's Special Defense is pretty enormous without any boosting at all, which weighs in favor of doing everything one can for physical bulk, but Chansey's even greater base HP mean that the percentage impact of those HP EVs seems quite small, and I'm interested in the possibility of pushing special bulk into the stratosphere instead.

With max HP and Def (and assuming 4 Speed EVs), a flawless Bold Chansey has level 50 stats of:
357 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 125 (187) / 71

With max Def and SpD instead, the stats become:
325 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 157 (235) / 71

Because of Chansey's huge base HP, 252 HP EVs only give Chansey about 10% more HP than an uninvested set, while the Special Defense EVs provide around a 25% boost in Special Defense.

The $64,000 questions thus become 1) Are there any special attackers in the Maison where the extra special bulk would help Chansey, or is she so specially bulky already that this higher special bulk is moot? 2) Are there any physical attackers that threaten Chansey without the HP investment but are more reliably beatable with that 10% boost in HP? 3) How much more common are maison Pokemon that affirmatively answer question 2 than question 1?

Clearly, the HP-maxing spread works fine, as your massive streaks demonstrate, but I'm interested if you had any specific theorymoning or battle experiences that make you confident that HP maxing was a better choice than boosting SpD? I strongly suspect you did, and even if not at the level of specific calculations, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Either way, maybe I'll play around with SpD boosted Chansey just to try out the alternative.

EDIT: I guess that the relatively small percentage boost in HP from maxing the HP EVs also weighs in favor GG Unit's consideration of moving some EVs from HP to Speed to outspeed Wailord4. So the question then becomes whether a spread of 172 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 84 is better than a spread of 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 172 / 84?

EDIT2: 4000 posts in this thread!? Impressive stuff, folks!!

Not going to calc from my phone but Electivire Thunder Punch (at +0) is an example of a physical attack that sometimes breaks a max Defense Chansey's sub and sometimes doesn't. If that broke a Sub every time Chansey is probably more of a paper counter that isn't too many crits and full para's from losing to Electivire. So for me it was more about stuff like that which shifted the odds that much more in favor of "when this random physical attacker comes out 2nd, can Chansey get back to 100% behind a Sub for the 3rd Pokemon, which might actually be theatening, pretty easily even if it's not evading every attack?" Also partly because I was switching Chansey in for Suicune and Chansey needs no investment to take special attacks better.

edit: 24.9%-29.5% with 0 HP, 22.6-26.8% with 252 HP

Special attackers don't really matter because they won't boost to +6 before attacking (without Evasion and Sub there's probably stuff that could still give Chansey trouble with consecutive crits at +3 or so) and anything breaking a Sub unboosted is using some 5 PP move (even then a non-STAB Focus Blast from something lower than ~100 base SpA is probably not breaking Chansey's Sub). If there's a nearby HP number to drop to that minimizes residual damage it could work because taking more damage from a burn than from the Fire attack Chansey came in to wall definitely throws you off when it comes to thinking about what you can survive before recovering. Volcarona and Musharna are the only Special Attack boosters I didn't switch Chansey in on but that's because they give Salamence an easy set-up. I definitely had battles where something broke Chansey's Sub right before fainting and then Volcarona came out and Flame Bodied Chansey on the first Seismic Toss, and it still never got particularly close to KOing Chansey.

So,
1. Yes, it's moot.
2. Yes
3. Significantly more if only because there are so many more physical attackers in the first place. Electivire is a pretty run-of-the mill physical attacker with no boosting moves/items or super-effective hits.

 

[faith_grins]

I've got an EV question for our resident Chansey experts VaporeonIce and GG Unit. So far, all the big Chansey streaks I've seen use a "max physical defense" spread of 252 HP / 252 Def. Given Chansey's poor base Defense and the multiplier effect of Eviolite, maxing the Defense EVs is obviously correct.

What I'm less certain about, however, are the HP EVs. Chansey's Special Defense is pretty enormous without any boosting at all, which weighs in favor of doing everything one can for physical bulk, but Chansey's even greater base HP mean that the percentage impact of those HP EVs seems quite small, and I'm interested in the possibility of pushing special bulk into the stratosphere instead.

With max HP and Def (and assuming 4 Speed EVs), a flawless Bold Chansey has level 50 stats of:
357 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 125 (187) / 71

With max Def and SpD instead, the stats become:
325 / 22 / 62 (93) / 55 / 157 (235) / 71

Because of Chansey's huge base HP, 252 HP EVs only give Chansey about 10% more HP than an uninvested set, while the Special Defense EVs provide around a 25% boost in Special Defense.

The $64,000 questions thus become 1) Are there any special attackers in the Maison where the extra special bulk would help Chansey, or is she so specially bulky already that this higher special bulk is moot? 2) Are there any physical attackers that threaten Chansey without the HP investment but are more reliably beatable with that 10% boost in HP? 3) How much more common are maison Pokemon that affirmatively answer question 2 than question 1?

Clearly, the HP-maxing spread works fine, as your massive streaks demonstrate, but I'm interested if you had any specific theorymoning or battle experiences that make you confident that HP maxing was a better choice than boosting SpD? I strongly suspect you did, and even if not at the level of specific calculations, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Either way, maybe I'll play around with SpD boosted Chansey just to try out the alternative.

I think the answer to 1) is that she is just so specially bulky that there isn't anything in the Maison that credibly threatens her. Even with the physically bulkier spread, most Focus Blast users can manage at best a 3HKO. Alakazam4, Tornadus1/2/4, and Gardevoir4 all fall into this camp.

For reference, Latios3's Draco Meteor:
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey on a critical hit: 160-189 (44.8 - 52.9%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO
That is the hardest, unboosted, non-Focus Blast special attack you will ever take in the Maison, and it needs two consecutive crits to scrounge up a 25% chance to 2HKO you.

Some common Calm Mind threats:
+6 0 SpA Entei Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 118-141 (33 - 39.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
+6 4 SpA Suicune Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 120-142 (33.6 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 0 SpA Volcarona Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (49.5 - 58.2%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 166-196 (46.4 - 54.9%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Latios Luster Purge vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 126-148 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 0 SpA Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 153-180 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Chandelure Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 186-220 (52.1 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 0 SpA Cobalion Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 105-124 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 9.3% chance to 3HKO
+6 0 SpA Cobalion Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 314-372 (87.9 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Honestly, Volcarona is probably the scariest of those because it has the most PP you need to stall out once it's boosted up. Latios isn't great either because a Luster Purge SpD drop could be pretty bad, but that's less of an issue if you're running Substitute. I honestly don't know if Coblaion1 is willing to wait until +6 to start throwing Focus Blasts at Chansey - my guess is it probably wastes one or two PP below +6, which ought to make stalling out the other 3-4 PP that much easier.

So, yeah, Focus Blast is really the only special attack you need to worry about - anything else is either trivial to stall out, or only threatening because it's on a Calm Mind booster. Shifting EVs from HP to SpD brings that Cobalion's Focus Blast down from a 25% chance to OHKO to only OHKOing on a crit, but that is the edgiest of edge cases if you ask me. I think the only real benefit you could get from shifting EVs to SpD is conserving Substitute/Softboiled PP while setting up or Toxic stalling against certain special attacking threats. It's possible there are few enough physical threats that your team requires Chansey to handle that conserving PP could be a valuable asset to you, but I don't think that's something you'd be able to figure out until you had a pretty good amount of experience with the team.

 

[-FG-]

I just won battle 2500 in Super Triples with this team:


Talonflame
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpDef
Adamant
Item: Sharp Break

- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Taunt


Mega-Altaria
Ability: Natural Cure / Pixilate
EVs: 134 HP / 252 SpAtk / 124 Spd
Modest
Item: Altarianite

- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice
- Heat Wave


Greninja
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd / 6 SpDef
Timid
Item: Focus Sash

- Mat Block
- Dark Pulse
- Scald
- Grass Knot


Typhlosion
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest
Item: Choice Specs

- Eruption
- Flame Thrower
- Focus Blast
- Protect


Azumarill
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpDef
Adamant
Item: Wide Lens

- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Superpower


Bisharp
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 114 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spd / 60 SpDef
Adamant
Item: Assault West

- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Low Kick
- Psycho Cut



The Talonflame/strong spread attacker/Greninja combination is already known to be a very efficient foundation for Super Triples. After already had great success with Mega Blastoise in X/Y, I wanted to use a new ORAS-Mega instead. So I considered Altaria and Salamence for the central position before finally choosing Altaria because it has enough speed under Tailwind (outspeeds anything but a few things with Choice Scarf with 124 Spd-EV), good all-around bulk and a very useful defensive typing. As it loses the weaknesses against Dragon and Rock as well as the x 4-weakness against ice when Mega evolving there are very few threats for it on the first turn.


Of the things that are faster than Greninja or have a quick claw I think only Weavile scoring a critical hit with Ice Punch and Muk with Gunk Shot (which it is very unlikely to use against normal Altaria) can OHKO Mega Altaria. Very rarely Aerodactyl or Crobat attacked it with Stone Edge respectively Brave Bird/Cross Poison, but I think it even survived critical hits in that case and because Hyper Voice doesn’t lose power when Mega Altaria is weakened, this wasn’t too much of a problem. Additionally only Scarf-Charizard/Skarmory/Braviary using Rock Slide and causing a Flinch on Greninja or Sand Stream-Tyrannitar/Hippowdon + Sand Rush-Excadrill could pose an immediate problem. The fast Electrics that are dangerous for Blastoise are not an issue and I don’t think there isn’t anything faster than Greninja with a Fairy Type-attack. Also I got the impression that opponents use Fake Out (especially Jynx but also some others I think) and Trick Room (here most of all Slowbro and Slowking) less often than when I used Blastoise.


Offensively Pixilate-Hyper Voice has the advantages of having fewer immunities against it compared to Water Spout (Soundproof is much less of a problem than H2O-Absorb+Storm Drain), that it hits through Substitutes and that its power does not depend on health. While it basically doesn’t OHKO anything it hits neutrally, there is often at least one opposing Pokemon will be 2HKOed. So combined with attacks from Talonflame and Greninja most times you can still get rid of at least the opponent’s complete front row within the first two turns. A Fire Type attack is needed for Steels, I chose Heat Wave instead of Flamethrower as I considered hitting and possibly burning multiple opponents more useful than hitting one Pokemon harder and with perfect accuracy. The other moves are mostly fillers. Heal Bell can especially help against users Paralysis and burns on the physical attackers and Protect is most often used when Mega Altaria is low on health or Tailwind needs to be set up again.


Talonflame and Greninja are fairly standard only using Scald instead of Ice Beam might be noticeable, as it is better against Fire and Steel Types that take little damage from Hyper Voice.


Typhlosion is there to have another powerful spread attacker if Mega Altaria faints and is switched in on the 1st turn when the opponent opens with multiple Steel or Poison Types. It has maximum speed to outspeed as much as possible without Tailwind.


For the final two slots I looked for physical attackers that are useful under Trick Room, as I think that is what’s most threatening for this kind of teams, and can deal OK with Steels and well with Bastiodon and Regigigas (only annoying users of Wide Guard) as well as either either Fire (especially Heatran) or Poison Types. Azumarill and Assault West-Bisharp are the solution I found best suited to accomplish that goal while also being solid defensively.


Apart from Trick Room, Honchkrow snatching Tailwind/Mat Block and maybe opposing Moltres or Articuno using Tailwind on their own or certain combinations of fast Pokemon I haven’t met something I found particularly threatening yet. Some status users are annoying but Taunt and Heal Bell are usually enough to deal with them. There were some battles that were somewhat tough, but I don’t remember feeling I was really close to losing in any of those.


Videos


somewhat close battles:

2ZKW-WWWW-WW2N-FERM

ZZBW-WWWW-WW2N-FF24

SHRG-WWWW-WW2N-FF3D

SX5G-WWWW-WW2N-FF59

DNPG-WWWW-WW2N-FF69

7ACW-WWWW-WW2N-FF7L

4HNG-WWWW-WW2N-FF8U

76YW-WWWW-WW2N-FFA5


Battle 2500: A9QW-WWWW-WW2N-FFAZ


4559-winning streak in X/Y (Team: Talonflame – Mega Blastoise – Greninja – Typhlosion – Aegislash – Hydreigon)


H5TG-WWWW-WWW8-Y995

B2RW-WWWW-WWW8-Y9K7

XR9W-WWWW-WWW8-Y9KA

8PMW-WWWW-WWW8-Y9KF

2TLW-WWWW-WWW8-Y99B

FYTW-WWWW-WWW8-Y99M

SN4G-WWWW-WWW8-Y9KH

ZLFW-WWWW-WW2N-FH5T

G29G-WWWW-WW2N-FH6U

T5ZW-WWWW-WW2N-FHA2

 

[turskain]

Nice streaks, -FG- ! I do have a couple of nitpicks/questions.

1. Bisharp's set - Assault Vest is an interesting choice, but losing out on Protect seems pretty costly with its 4x Fighting weakness, and it also doesn't have Knock Off. What are you targeting with Psycho Cut?

2. Scald on Greninja over IB - I like Ice Beam a lot on Greninja personally, and you do have Water coverage on Azumarill while stripping Ice Beam removes Ice coverage from the team entirely. Did you miss having IB on Greninja at some point?

3. Natural Cure on Altaria - Cloud Nine could stop Swift Swim/Sand Rush from working on Turn 1, preventing them from moving before Mat Block.

4. How do you play against fast Electric-types? In the battle videos, Altaria seems to do very well against Roller Skaters, but you don't have any Ground-type coverage, Protect bait, or Electric-immune teammates. Heal Bell sounds like it could be useful here, though.

I like the sound of Mega Altaria as a bulky spread attacker/pivot - it seems pretty good in the battle videos, and Aerilate Hyper Voice does have much better coverage than Mega Salamence's Aerilate Hyper Voice. I want to hear more about your 4559-win streak in XY, too.

 

[Alphanex20]

Well I've been planning to use Lucario in a triples team (regular, mind you, the team's mega is Gardevoir, one of my favorites in Triples). The set's looking kinda like this so far:

Lucario@Focus Sash
Timid/Modest Nature (see below)
252 SAtk 252 Spe 4 SDef
Aura Sphere
Dark Pulse
Vacuum Wave/Helping Hand/Flash Cannon (See below)
Protect

The problems I've been having are the Nature and the third move. Vacuum Wave is priority for Excadrill (albeit I will have a Talon and VW doesn't reach around to the other side), HH is to boost up M-Gard, while Flash Cannon hits fairies (but doesn't have the range and has otherwise redundant coverage). As for the nature, is Luke's speed tier need Timid? Otherwise I'm favoring Modest (especially with VW).

The whole point behind Luke is cross-field spam with some other options, yes the Ninja could be considered better, but I frankly wanted to try something other than the ninja.

 

[-FG-]

1. Bisharp's fighting weakness wasn't too much of a problem yet. Altaria, Talonflame and Azumarill usually deal pretty well with Fighting Types and even Typhlosion at full health hitting them with Eruption outright KOs or at least severely damages most of them. So when Bisharp comes in normally there isn't any fighting type on the field or at least unlikely to survive until it can attack. Under Tailwind it also outspeeds a lot and can KO most weakened Fighting Types with Iron Head or Psycho Cut. Of other Pokemon with a fighting attack I only remember Muk as being annoying. I often bring Bisharp in for Altaria to take the Gunk Shot (it also takes Explosion better than Altaria), but if it cannot be KOed by Brave Bird and/or Sucker Punch it might KO Bisharp with Brick Break via Quick Claw before it did anything. Psycho Cut is mostly for Tentacruel as it resists basically all powerful attacks of my team and can hit 4 of the team members (5 when Greninja used Grass Knot) super effectively. So while it usually isn't that threatening because of its lack of power it's still an uncomfortable Pokemon to face. It's also useful against some other Poison or Fighting Types and in general I chose it over Knock Off as I prefered having attacks of four different Types on Bisharp. For the Dark Type attack I went for Sucker Punch over Knock Off as I consider Trick Room the biggest thread for the team and think Sucker Punch is the superior choice for that matter as well as when Tailwind isn't active. But replacing Psycho Cut with Knock Off might be something I will think about again.

2. I replaced Ice Beam with Scald on Greninja at some time between battles 1000 and 1500. The types Ice is super effective against are usually not an issue for the team. Dragons are easily dealt with Hyper Voice, against Ground Pokemon Scald also is super effective and against Plant (if the opponents starts with multiple Poison/Plants I bring in Typhlosion under Mat Block) and Flying Types I can normally control the batte with a neutral hitting Hyper Voice and neutral/super effective attacks of Greninja and Talonflame. I thought it was more beneficiary for the team to have the better attack against the Types Mega Altaria doesn't cover well, namely Fire and the Steel Types Heat Wave isn't super effective against (Steel/Fire, Steel/Rock). As Typhlosion is good against two Types resisting Fairy (Steel and Poison) but not against Fire I thought it was necessary to have another solution to Fire Types (especially Heatran) apart from Brave Bird and Scald and chose Azumarill for that as it is solid on its own with good attack, pritority via Aqua Jet and defensive stats as well as typing, useful under Trick Room with priority and low speed and great against the dreaded Bastiodon with Wide Guard.

In Conclusion especially against some Roller Skaters I would have liked to have Ice Beam on Greninja, but over the course of a huge number of battles my impression was Scald (also Water being a much better defensive typing than Ice was nice on some occassions) is definitely the superior choice for this team. And between the traditional Mat Block-Greninja attacks Dark Pulse, Ice Beam and Grass Knot I think Ice Beam is least necessary for this team. If I feel the need to have an Ice attack on the team I probably rather would use Ice Beam instead of Protect/Heal Bell on Altaria or Ice Punch instead of Superpower on Azumarill.

3. I only had Natural Cure Altarias at my disposal and couldn't think of a situation where having Natural Cure or Cloud Nine would make a difference so I never considered breeding one with Cloud Nine. But Greninja not being in danger of being outsped by Chlorophyll/Sand Rush/Swift Swim Pokemon on the first turn when another one has Drought/Sand Stream/Drizzle sounds very nice. So thanks for the input here.

4. The Electrics being faster than Greninja (I think it's only Jolteon, Electrode and Choice Scarf Manectric, with only Manectric outspeeding Mega Altaria under Tailwind) either attack Greninja or Talonflame with Thunderbolt/Thunder or use a status move. So I start with Tailwind, Hyper Voice, Mat Block as usual (I probably would attack with Greninja if the opponent starts with 2 Pokemon faster than it). If Greninja was the target it survives thanks to the Sash and I win the battle usually easily from there with Hyper Voice + attacks of Talonflame and Greninja and if Talonflame was targeted it gets KOed after using Tailwind and I bring in Typhlosion which will outspeed anything for the next three turns after. With Eruption + Hyper Voice + potential attack from Greninja it's also usually not a problem to win the battle from there. Electrode with Soundproof can be slightly annoying but it basically can be ignored until it KOed something so Typhlosion can come in to KO it with Eruption. Against things with Thunder Wave I wait until Altaria or at least two of my team members get paralyzed and use Heal Bell then. As the Thunder Wave users often try to paralyze a second Pokemon after targetting Altaria first the second target is healed immediately as well if Altaria isn't fully paralyzed, so the opponent basically wasted a turn with the Thunder Wave user then.

The other fast regularly used things use to do the following on the first turn:

Weavile: Ice Punch against Altaria which doesn't KO it after Mega evolving unless it's a critical hit and maybe not even then / rarely Fake Out against Altaria or Taunt against Greninja

Depending on the other opposing Pokemon I Protect with Altaria or start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block as usual

Aerodactyl: Stone Edge against any of my front row Pokemon depending on its position (most against Talonflame if it can target it) --> Mega Altaria survives (even in case of a critical hit, I think), Greninja survives with Focus Sash, Talonflame gets KOed after using Tailwind

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. If Talonflame gets KOed I usually bring in Typhlosion.

Choice Scarf Darmanitan: Depending on the Position Stone Edge against Talonflame or Superpower against Greninja / rarely Stone Edge against Altaria (Mega Altaria even survives a critical hit)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. If Talonflame gets KOed I usually bring in Typhlosion.

Accelgor: Bug Buzz against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / Protect if it cannot target Greninja

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja.

Choice Scarf Pinsir: X-Scissor against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / I don't remember what it does when it can't target Greninja (probaly uses Guillotine)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. Bring in Typhlosion if it KOs something with Guillotine.

Choice Scarf Entei: Eruption (which does little damage)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block.

Choice Scarf Landorus: Focus Blast against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / Extra Sensory against Altaria or Talonflame if it can't target Greninja

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block.

Choice Scarf Terrakion: Stone Edge against Talonflame / Sacred Sword against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / rarely: Stone Edge against Altaria (possible KO with a critical hit I think)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice (Terrakion might survive it)/Mat Block. What I bring in when Talonflame gets KOed depends on the other Pokemon of the opponent and if Terrakion got KOed.

Choice Scarf Heatran: Dragon Pulse against Altaria

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block.

Crobat: in majority Taunt against Greninja / less often Hypnosis/Cross Poison/Brave Bird against any of my Pokemon

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Attack from Greninja.

Talonflame: Swords Dance / Attack with Brave Bird or Quick Attack against any of my Pokemon

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Attack from Greninja and usually attack it with my Talonflame's Brave Bird on the second turn if it might have Gale Wings.

Scizor: Might use Bullet Punch against Altaria even before Mega evolution. Protect with Mega Altaria on the second turn if it did, maybe bring in Typhlosion for Mega Altaria on the first turn.

Choice Scarf Pokemon only Roller Skaters can use: I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Mat Block if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja.

Of the Quick Claw users only Muk (Explosion or possibly Gunk Shot against Altaria even on the 1st turn, consider Altaria using Protect) and maybe Donphan (Seed Bomb/Fissure against Greninja, Stone Edge against Talonflame/rarely Altaria, on later turns maybe Fissure against Mega Altaria) slightly worry me.

Custap Berry users are no problem usually as basically always either Talonflame, Azumarill or Bisharp is on the field to KO them before they can attack anyway.

About my streak in X/Y I can't remember all the details anymore, but wrote something in German about it some months ago. I might translate the most important things into English within the next few days.

 

[turskain]

1. Bisharp's fighting weakness wasn't too much of a problem yet. Altaria, Talonflame and Azumarill usually deal pretty well with Fighting Types and even Typhlosion at full health hitting them with Eruption outright KOs or at least severely damages most of them. So when Bisharp comes in normally there isn't any fighting type on the field or at least unlikely to survive until it can attack. Under Tailwind it also outspeeds a lot and can KO most weakened Fighting Types with Iron Head or Psycho Cut. Of other Pokemon with a fighting attack I only remember Muk as being annoying. I often bring Bisharp in for Altaria to take the Gunk Shot (it also takes Explosion better than Altaria), but if it cannot be KOed by Brave Bird and/or Sucker Punch it might KO Bisharp with Brick Break via Quick Claw before it did anything. Psycho Cut is mostly for Tentacruel as it resists basically all powerful attacks of my team and can hit 4 of the team members (5 when Greninja used Grass Knot) super effectively. So while it usually isn't that threatening because of its lack of power it's still an uncomfortable Pokemon to face. It's also useful against some other Poison or Fighting Types and in general I chose it over Knock Off as I prefered having attacks of four different Types on Bisharp. For the Dark Type attack I went for Sucker Punch over Knock Off as I consider Trick Room the biggest thread for the team and think Sucker Punch is the superior choice for that matter as well as when Tailwind isn't active. But replacing Psycho Cut with Knock Off might be something I will think about again.

2. I replaced Ice Beam with Scald on Greninja at some time between battles 1000 and 1500. The types Ice is super effective against are usually not an issue for the team. Dragons are easily dealt with Hyper Voice, against Ground Pokemon Scald also is super effective and against Plant (if the opponents starts with multiple Poison/Plants I bring in Typhlosion under Mat Block) and Flying Types I can normally control the batte with a neutral hitting Hyper Voice and neutral/super effective attacks of Greninja and Talonflame. I thought it was more beneficiary for the team to have the better attack against the Types Mega Altaria doesn't cover well, namely Fire and the Steel Types Heat Wave isn't super effective against (Steel/Fire, Steel/Rock). As Typhlosion is good against two Types resisting Fairy (Steel and Poison) but not against Fire I thought it was necessary to have another solution to Fire Types (especially Heatran) apart from Brave Bird and Scald and chose Azumarill for that as it is solid on its own with good attack, pritority via Aqua Jet and defensive stats as well as typing, useful under Trick Room with priority and low speed and great against the dreaded Bastiodon with Wide Guard.

In Conclusion especially against some Roller Skaters I would have liked to have Ice Beam on Greninja, but over the course of a huge number of battles my impression was Scald (also Water being a much better defensive typing than Ice was nice on some occassions) is definitely the superior choice for this team. And between the traditional Mat Block-Greninja attacks Dark Pulse, Ice Beam and Grass Knot I think Ice Beam is least necessary for this team. If I feel the need to have an Ice attack on the team I probably rather would use Ice Beam instead of Protect/Heal Bell on Altaria or Ice Punch instead of Superpower on Azumarill.

3. I only had Natural Cure Altarias at my disposal and couldn't think of a situation where having Natural Cure or Cloud Nine would make a difference so I never considered breeding one with Cloud Nine. But Greninja not being in danger of being outsped by Chlorophyll/Sand Rush/Swift Swim Pokemon on the first turn when another one has Drought/Sand Stream/Drizzle sounds very nice. So thanks for the input here.

4. The Electrics being faster than Greninja (I think it's only Jolteon, Electrode and Choice Scarf Manectric, with only Manectric outspeeding Mega Altaria under Tailwind) either attack Greninja or Talonflame with Thunderbolt/Thunder or use a status move. So I start with Tailwind, Hyper Voice, Mat Block as usual (I probably would attack with Greninja if the opponent starts with 2 Pokemon faster than it). If Greninja was the target it survives thanks to the Sash and I win the battle usually easily from there with Hyper Voice + attacks of Talonflame and Greninja and if Talonflame was targeted it gets KOed after using Tailwind and I bring in Typhlosion which will outspeed anything for the next three turns after. With Eruption + Hyper Voice + potential attack from Greninja it's also usually not a problem to win the battle from there. Electrode with Soundproof can be slightly annoying but it basically can be ignored until it KOed something so Typhlosion can come in to KO it with Eruption. Against things with Thunder Wave I wait until Altaria or at least two of my team members get paralyzed and use Heal Bell then. As the Thunder Wave users often try to paralyze a second Pokemon after targetting Altaria first the second target is healed immediately as well if Altaria isn't fully paralyzed, so the opponent basically wasted a turn with the Thunder Wave user then.

The other fast regularly used things use to do the following on the first turn:

Weavile: Ice Punch against Altaria which doesn't KO it after Mega evolving unless it's a critical hit and maybe not even then / rarely Fake Out against Altaria or Taunt against Greninja

Depending on the other opposing Pokemon I Protect with Altaria or start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect as usual

Aerodactyl: Stone Edge against any of my front row Pokemon depending on its position (most against Talonflame if it can target it) --> Mega Altaria survives (even in case of a critical hit, I think), Greninja survives with Focus Sash, Talonflame gets KOed after using Tailwind

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. If Talonflame gets KOed I usually bring in Typhlosion.

Choice Scarf Darmanitan: Depending on the Position Stone Edge against Talonflame or Superpower against Greninja / rarely Stone Edge against Altaria (Mega Altaria even survives a critical hit)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. If Talonflame gets KOed I usually bring in Typhlosion.

Accelgor: Bug Buzz against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / Protect if it cannot target Greninja

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja.

Choice Scarf Pinsir: X-Scissor against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / I don't remember what it does when it can't target Greninja (probaly uses Guillotine)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja. Bring in Typhlosion if it KOs something with Guillotine.

Choice Scarf Entei: Eruption (which does little damage)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect.

Choice Scarf Landorus: Focus Blast against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / Extra Sensory against Altaria or Talonflame if it can't target Greninja

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect.

Choice Scarf Terrakion: Stone Edge against Talonflame / Sacred Sword against Greninja (survives with Focus Sash) / rarely: Stone Edge against Altaria (possible KO with a critical hit I think)

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice (Terrakion might survive it)/Protect. What I bring in when Talonflame gets KOed depends on the other Pokemon of the opponent and if Terrakion got KOed.

Choice Scarf Heatran: Dragon Pulse against Altaria

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect.

Crobat: in majority Taunt against Greninja / less often Hypnosis/Cross Poison/Brave Bird against any of my Pokemon

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Attack from Greninja.

Talonflame: Swords Dance / Attack with Brave Bird or Quick Attack against any of my Pokemon

I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Attack from Greninja and usually attack it with my Talonflame's Brave Bird on the second turn if it might have Gale Wings.

Scizor: Might use Bullet Punch against Altaria even before Mega evolution. Protect with Mega Altaria on the second turn if it did, maybe bring in Typhlosion for Mega Altaria on the first turn.

Choice Scarf Pokemon only Roller Skaters can use: I start with Tailwind/Hyper Voice/Protect if there isn't another threat faster than Greninja.

Of the Quick Claw users only Muk (Explosion or possibly Gunk Shot against Altaria even on the 1st turn, consider Altaria using Protect) and maybe Donphan (Seed Bomb/Fissure against Greninja, Stone Edge against Talonflame/rarely Altaria, on later turns maybe Fissure against Mega Altaria) slightly worry me.

Custap Berry users are no problem usually as basically always either Talonflame, Azumarill or Bisharp is on the field to KO them before they can attack anyway.

About my streak in X/Y I can't remember all the details anymore, but wrote something in German about it some months ago. I might translate the most important things into English within the next few days.

Against Tentacruel4, Knock Off with 97.5 BP and STAB deals more damage than super-effective Psycho Cut and removes its Black Sludge on top to deny recovery. Applies to any Pokémon weak to Psycho Cut that is hit neutrally by Knock Off - the only Poison-type Psycho Cut hits harder would be Toxicroak. It still hits Fighting-types harder than Iron Head, though.

Since Life Orb isn't used on any other Pokémon, Talonflame could take it for a little more damage output. I liked it better than Sharp Beak in Doubles when I had the choice, though it does inflict a fair bit of recoil.

I'd prefer HP Ground over Focus Blast on Typhlosion for a reliable attack against Fire-types. Flash Fire sounds cool as well, but with Bisharp as the only Fire-weak Pokémon on the team and its 4x Fighting weakness that draws in Focus Blast and others over Fire attacks, it might be less useful than Blaze in this case.

Maybe ErupTran over Typhlosion to double as both the Steel-type and the spread back-up, and replacing Bisharp with something else - it would be pretty slow outside Tailwind, though.

 

[-FG-]

Knock Off instead of Psycho Cut really seems to be the superior choice on Bisharp then and I don't think I would really miss Psycho Cut anyway.

Life Orb on Talonflame is something I already tried but my impression was that without it, it will often survive a turn longer and I ultimately prefered to keep the option of attacking with a cross field Brave Bird as long as possible.

Flash Fire wasn't available yet on Typhlosion when I bread it. In general Flash Fire is slightly superior in my opinion but I thought the difference in usefulness between Blaze and Flash Fire was small enough, that I didn't fell the need to breed one later. Breeding for HP Ground is another thing I thought wasn't necessary enough to put in the required effort. I also considered using Extra Sensory or Solar Beam but Eruption is basically the only attack it uses.

Unfortunately I don't own an ErupTran, otherwise I would already have tried it as the chance to have more useful Moves (especially Earth Power) in the remaining slots would be great. Mixed Entei with Eruption/Sacred Fire/Stone Edge/??? with Charcoal was another option I considered but the superior power especially with Choice Specs made me choose Typhlosion.

For me Bisharps Dark Type is more important than the Steel Type as it makes it a great back up when Trick Room is up, which is the thing that scares me most. Metagross, Aegislash and Tyranitar were other things I thought about for this slot which I decided against because of the Ghost and Dark weaknesses and the bad defensive Typing respectively.

Unfortunately my streak ended today because somewhere around battle 2530 a Software error occured.

I saved a final video of battle 2527 which got rather complicated because of Vileplume using Teeter Dance. (Code: K43G-WWWW-WW2N-RKKP)

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

While it's something of a moot point, both because of your streak and the fact that Bisharp is a backup poke, STAB Knock Off with muscle like Bisharp backing it has the benefit of slaughtering Bronzong4 and Slowking4 before they can throw TR up. I liked leading with Bisharp in my randoms not only because of this but it made triggering Defiant more likely.

 

[GG Unit]

The Japanese player I posted about earlier, yun_1601, has reached 4000 wins in Triples - detailed here (Google Translate).

Looks like this streak was lost shortly afterwards due to the battery running out or something. That same link's been updated.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

I'm not posting with a substantial streak update, but instead sharing two replays I was compelled to save, featuring run-ins with a personal nemesis of mine since the days of the Subway- Glaceon. You can probably already tell where things are going, too. I haven't lost yet, but I've also barely played, what with so many conflicting interests, and even more conflicts on the horizon. Since pausing my streak, I've only done another 86 battles between two days of playing (had some morbidly obese chunks of off-time at my job, and all these triples streaks made me hungry for some Aron. These took place about two weeks ago.)

Battle #1019: 8PGW-WWWW-WW2Z-27DE
VS Furisode Girl Kannon: Umbreon/Espeon/Glaceon3/Vaporeon1/Leafeon/Jolteon
Highlights the folly of playing at work, which in my case means no computer (well, any work station of mine I'd find time to play games means no computer) and in this case, I was on the shitter and didn't bring my phone. Failure to run damage calcs and refresh my memory on a Vappy set cost me big time; otherwise I would have known when it was no longer safe to leave Slowbro in against Glaceon, who would be tempted to use something besides Blizzard for a kill. This battle was won by the skin of my teeth, thanks to a stupid misplay involving Camerupt. Unfortunately the only pokes with obvious tells as to their sets are the two I listed, but for all others I can at least narrow it down to two, by move used and indicators that certain items weren't in play (like no Lefties or Sitrus Berry for Umbreon, QC being used by Vappy and not Leafeon, etc.)

Battle #1036: 5QGG-WWWW-WW2Z-27FW
VS Ace Trainer Nikita: Goodra/Glaceon/Swampert/Arcanine/Sceptile/Forretress
When you say "Fuck you" to the Maison, sometimes the Maison responds with "Yeah? Well fuck you HARDER." Sums up the first two turns of this battle. Unlike the previous battle, this disaster was fairly short-lived; the literal snow melted before it could figuratively roll the rest of the way, on top of my playing my cards much better (save an unforseen Detect.) This battle ended up being pretty fun to re-watch for that reason.

I had no other replays to save in 86 battles because they lived happily ever after until I'd quit again. Amazingly, I even had no problematic encounters with rival setters, despite meeting Mara a couple times. This is largely because the only instances I remember with non-Mara lead setters involved Trevenant, who lead parallel to Camerupt, notable because Iron Ball makes it slower during the evolution turn, which means Trevor takes the Phantom Train directly to Mt Chimney. Ya like them lava cookies, asshole? Om nom nom! Jokes aside, I also remember Mara's Conkeldurr beating the shit out of me, living to take its turns because of some circumstances that don't readily come to mind >_>

Hopefully I get the drive to play some more in the coming weeks. I love this team.

 

[turskain]

Nice videos, ReptoAbysmal.

On a similar note I just finished the Raikou/Greninja/Salamence/Aegislash write-up and uploaded battle videos here.

 

[Altissimo]

So I've been playing Maison on and off for the past few weeks, mostly while multitasking watching Let's Plays (I can't watch them without multitasking anymore) or some shit. I've managed to win 73 battles (after 200) so far just from playing casually, as in not bothering with actually checking the moveset or Trainer data since Durant/Cloyster/Drapion is pretty damn straightforward and I also don't care if I lose because a) I already have 200 wins, b) I wouldn't feel right going for a record with a team that is wholesale taken from other teams in this thread, and c) I'm just playing to pass the time.
But here, have a somewhat interesting (60-turn) battle. Shiftry utterly refuses to let Durant get off an Entrainment (going against what I expected from the AI: Durant has *3* HP left and Shiftry still feels the need to protect on Durant's attacking turn?) and so I send out Drapion and don't bother looking up Shiftry's remaining PP or calc anything so I probably waste a ton of Protect and Sub PP and then Shiftry struggles itself to death (breaking my Sub on the last struggle ofc) with Drapion not being fully set up. The back-ups mean it doesn't matter in the least but still I thought it was interesting especially since I was playing by memory (and I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of damage calcs and movesets by any means). Here you go:
J66G-WWWW-WW2Z-3XHT

 

[GG Unit]

^ if it already used a handful of Protects and got Durant down to about half health you can switch to Drapion and get Shiftry to use the rest of the Protect PP before switching back. Otherwise Drapion should've been pretty close to fully set up since Shiftry would have to use Fake Out for 9 more turns.

 

[Altissimo]

^ if it already used a handful of Protects and got Durant down to about half health you can switch to Drapion and get Shiftry to use the rest of the Protect PP before switching back. Otherwise Drapion should've been pretty close to fully set up since Shiftry would have to use Fake Out for 9 more turns.

Yeah I wasn't paying attention to PP at all (until it started using Fake Out anyway and even then I still wasn't paying attention) so that didn't cross my mind. Drapion was like 3 Acupressures away from being fully set up when Shiftry died to Struggle recoil, though.

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

Experimented with another fun team that I also expected to do well (or at least better than team Chatot)...I just finished battle 100 with an all-starter team, complete with the OCD need to use two from each type and one from each generation. Turns out that a certain set of moves I've never used before is absolutely amazing when played right *cough*pledges*cough* so stay tuned! I'll let you guys know my team in depth once I lose or reach 1000.

 

[SilverLining]

I really like this thread.

I've been following this thread for a long time, and I always like checking it every day to see if there's anything new, any new super-long streaks and such. It's really exciting! I don't have any really long streaks (yet) but I did manage to get all five trophies! I don't know why I didn't save any videos, but all the streaks reached 50, and then I didn't go any further. Maybe I'll try to reach 100 or something in one of them.

Super Singles

Super Singles: Mega Scizor, Suicune, Gliscor

Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician → Technician
EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Purity (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Def / 52 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect

I think all three of these sets were used by other more seasoned veterans of the Battle Maison. It was very easy to set up Scizor in most cases, and Suicune worked well as a burn absorber, and Gliscor is Gliscor.

Super Doubles

Super Doubles: Mega Gardevoir, Bonsly, Weavile, Gastrodon

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace → Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Bonsly @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: none
Quiet Nature
- Fake Tears
- Protect
- Endure
- Helping Hand

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Shard
- Protect

Gastrodon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 164 HP / 108 Def / 220 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Clear Smog

I wanted to use some variant of the Aron strategy, just without the Aron part. So I settled on Bonsly, and so far it has worked out much better than I anticipated. I spent about twenty minutes breeding for a Bonsly with Endure, but I haven't used it once yet. I just left Fake Tears on it because I don't know what else to put there. Essentially, Gardevoir mega-evolves on the first turn while Bonsly protects itself, and then Bonsly uses Helping Hand to power up Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice. I have Weavile in the back just because I wanted to have a fast Dark type, and Gastrodon is for anti-Trick Room purposes.

Super Triples

Super Triples: Cresselia, Mega Charizard Y, Greninja, Garchomp, Bisharp, Conkeldurr

Cresselia @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 4 SpA / 148 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Psychic
- Toxic
- Protect
- Helping Hand

Dusk (Charizard) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze → Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
EVs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Grass Knot
- Mat Block

Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head
- Protect

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Protect

Conkeldurr @ Assault Vest
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 144 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch

A pretty classic Mat Block Greninja team, utilizing a STAB+sun+Helping Hand Heat Wave from a 159 Special Attack base. Heat Wave has an annoying propensity to miss, but ultimately battles end in my favor, pretty much due to Charizard's raw power and Greninja's ability to snipe from the corner. I tossed Garchomp, Bisharp, and Conkeldurr onto the back because they are Pokémon I have laying around, and they served their back-up purposes well. If the sunlight was removed, I could switch Charizard out for Garchomp, and then bring Charizard back in place of Greninja. Pretty easy team to use.

Super Rotations

Super Rotations: Klefki, Latias, Gastrodon, Mega Kangaskhan

Niobium (Klefki) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD
Bold Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Protect

Discovery (Latias) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

Triton (Gastrodon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 164 HP / 108 Def / 220 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Clear Smog

Kay (Kangaskhan) @Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy → Parental Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Sucker Punch
- Fake Out

I used the Klefki set created by turskain for rotations, but I used Latias and Gastrodon in place of Dragonite and Gengar. I think my Kangaskhan set is the same as turskain's also. Klefki makes things easier, largely based on its typing, as it can handle a variety of attack types. If it weren't for the seemingly ridiculous Klefki setup set, I would've struggled to get the rotations trophy.

Super Multis

Super Multis: Mega Gardevoir, Bisharp, Mega Gallade, Magnezone

My team:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace → Pixilate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

Cheque (Bisharp) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

Wally's team:

Gallade @ Galladite
Ability: Steadfast → Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Psycho Cut
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance

Magnezone @ Air Balloon
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder Wave
- Reflect

Mega Gardevoir is one of my favorite mega evolutions, and I wanted to see it used along with a Mega Gallade. I like the dichotomy created between my shiny Mega Gardevoir and Wally's regular Mega Gallade, in terms of aesthetics as well as attack versus special attack power. It was fun to use the two, but they share weaknesses, and the fact that both backups are Steel types doesn't help. Oh well. It got to 50, but I don't think it could get much farther than that.

I really like following this thread, and I like seeing all the creative stuff people here come up with. I hope to be able to add a streak or two to the leaderboards too!

 

[kuladiamond]

Hi turskain , I'm curious about your Meowstic Leer team which has topped 1000 in super triples. Do you manage to go on further?

 

[turskain]

Hi turskain , I'm curious about your Meowstic Leer team which has topped 1000 in super triples. Do you manage to go on further?

I started continuing the streak with a different team a while ago. With Team Leer, I played about 50 more battles, during which Quick Guard Cobalion4 showed up and shut down the leads twice.

 

[bloopy]

Super Multis are seriously pissing me off. I've gone all the way to the chatelaines 3 times and they always wreck my team.

Charizard Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze -> Drought
EVs: 4HP 252SpA 252Spe
Nature: Timid
-Flamethrower
-Dragon Pulse
-Solar Beam
-Protect

Aegislash @ Spell Tag
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252HP 252Atk 4SpD
Nature: Brave
-King's Shield
-Shadow Sneak
-Sacred Sword
-Swords Dance

And my AI partner has a Typhlosion and a Mr. Mime.

So I'm using the Drought and then Eruption strategy, which is incredibly reliable, except against the Chatelaines. I get to them pretty consistently but it's against them that I always lose because they always have either Terrakion or Scarfed Landorus or both which, out of all their pokemon, are the only that can put a stop to this strat. Next time I'll take out Aegislash for a max hp/max def Vaporeon and I'll see if I get lucky but if anyone knows more reliable strategy to go with do let me know because it's really annoying.

 

[MagicVGC]

Hey, it's Magicxgame under a different account. I'm posting an update of 1100 wins to break the 3-way tie.


Battle #1100 - FAJW-WWWW-WW2Z-GKC8 vs. Aurorus / Rapidash / Darmanitan / Gallade / Rhyperior / Ninetales

The team's still the same. I have some ideas floating around, such as Landorus-T, Wide Guard Aegislash, and even Machamp, but nothing's set in stone yet.

I find it funny that a streak of 1,000 wins will only tie for 10th place now. Who would've thought?