lol when I was first getting into the Maison with X, the first three or so failed runs were with Psychics/Hex and they all involved Gourgeist4 as the third and final poke. Started forming a stigma :P
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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
Hmm it still says "the battle video couldn't be found" for me...
I actually found myself kind of cheering for you as the battle wore on. It seemed like the ai had endless Pokemon and you had just a few. You had pretty poor luck with the ai having just the right items to counter your strategies (Babiri Berry, lum Berry, etc). Although you probably didn't stand a chance anyway, that must've been frustrating.
Also, I noticed your first three Pokemon came out in premier balls.
Also, I noticed your first three Pokemon came out in premier balls.
Generally, if I PokeGen 'mons I place them in Premier Balls to remind myself that they are as such. Even if I had pulled through that battle, I would have ended the streak there, due to using such PokeGen edits in this instance, and kept myself at 251 wins.
Unfortunately, I love Premier Balls so much that when I'm catching females to start breeding projects, I'm using those as well, so I'm kinda forced to keep track of my PokeGen edits through other methods (generally, I list the OT as "PWT" and retain the Trainer ID# 41122 to make this distinction).
Unfortunately, I love Premier Balls so much that when I'm catching females to start breeding projects, I'm using those as well, so I'm kinda forced to keep track of my PokeGen edits through other methods (generally, I list the OT as "PWT" and retain the Trainer ID# 41122 to make this distinction).
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1: Saying "it's not likely, but it's possible" is not an argument (though you could argue that, given a series of infinite battles, encountering hax is inevitable, mass hax of this variety is incredibly uncommon, saying this as someone who has faced a lot of RNG on Showdown). Judging by the commonly accepted guidelines for AI having an unfair advantage over the player (let's use this as an example, since it's a quick and easy reference; there's even a section dedicated to Pokemon. For a summary with slightly less jargon, see Wikipedia's section on Cheating AI), the AI does not need to be perfect in order to be considered as "cheating" ("This can be a quick-and-dirty method of achieving a 'level' playing field against a skilled human player, but can also create Fake Difficulty when the computer has access to moves that a human player clearly does not."). Thus, being repeatedly improbable would be good enough to fit the definition. If the AI were always perfect in terms of RNG and prediction, it would pretty much be completely unbeatable, which wouldn't be very fun or enticing for the player. This need for a slight imperfection is also the reason why it is sometimes possible to exploit the AI. On the other hand, if the AI didn't have any sort of enhancements, it would likely be way too easy or exploitable. The problem is finding the right types of enhancements so that the player doesn't feel cheated- getting a multitude of BrightPowder-related misses (which seems to be a common item in the Maison) would definitely make someone feel cheated, since it's incredibly rare that a normal player would get this (i.e. if someone gets one BrightPowder miss, it can be attributed simply to bad luck, but when it happens multiple times in a row with battle-changing results it can reasonably be seen as the computer trying to get a leg up, but since, as far as we can tell, the AI is not a sentient entity, it probably doesn't do this "intentionally," so to say, hence why it doesn't happen ALL the time or even with deliberate aim; I'm just speculating here since I don't know all the fine points of AI in video games, and I may not be wording everything right because it's getting late here and I've had a long day).
There's also this, which would be a definite example of "the computer has access to moves that a human player clearly does not":
(from TVTropes) "The AI of the battle facilities of Generation III onward (often either the 'Battle Tower' or the 'Battle Frontier') are designed to gain knowledge about your team as you accumulate winning streaks, despite the fact that you're facing new opponents over and over again and thus it wouldn't make sense for "Schoolgirl Jane" to know anything about the team that "Punk Sid" just battled. Specifically, you'll be forced to face teams that are increasingly designed to counter yours the higher your streak.
While this may seem like a coincidence in many instances, the most damning evidence is that players that have used hacked Pokémon, Pokémon with special abilities and sets that literally do not exist anywhere in the game and thus the computer cannot possibly have had the knowledge to counter them beforehand, will still encounter teams that are tailor made to overcome the player's strategies.
For evidence this still exists in the 6th generation's Battle Maison, try entering a Pokemon with Sand Stream as your lead plus an Aron with Sturdy and Endeavor. In the Battle Maison, you'll quickly start encountering a disproportionate number of Pokemon who are immune to sandstorms."
2: The set of definitions you are using is asking for something that is rather unquantifiable (probably not completely so, but not something any one person could do easily): you would literally have to play tens of thousands of battles, find some sort of baseline to compare it to (which wouldn't be easy considering all the other factors that might influence results, and outliers, which will occur because RNG is, well, naturally unpredictable!), and even then, you can apparently dismiss everything by simply saying "lol rng." And even then, maybe I'm missing some sort of other complex steps you'd need to do in order to find instances where "there is literally no explanation except 'the AI cheated.'" Which is kind of pointless, because, as I said above, in length, the definition is stricter than necessary.
But, regardless of whether or not this would answer your question, I found a bunch of funny/painful-to-watch replays (I'm not trying to use any of this as argument, and I don't necessarily advocate any of the opinions stated in these videos: I just thought these were some fun instances of such things happening).
[followed by list of "hax" videos, ending with the famous 3 quick claw Rhydon video uploaded by DrDimentio way back in gen 4 days]
i'm getting angry
this shit is totally relevant sh'up
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Altissimoooohhhh nooooooo..! How and why did you invite that torrent of retarded fucking drivel upon yourself?
And I'm guessing that the numerous "hax" replays are their response to demanding replays of cheating AI?
I skimmed the first wall of text since it contained too many run-on sentences and actually read the latter half, which tells me that any page of information that could provide a logical, plausible explanation to anything one faced (the increasingly common sand immunity shit made my head hurt) would only be met with contradictory claims, or the fallacy that you only validated their previous claims.
Just let this one die. Just let it die with its shitty streak.
this was in the midst of a bunch of people complaining that there's not enough postgame in XY/ORAS and I just wrote "Battle Maison!" and it devolved into this
Bingo!
Basically. It's one of those cases where no amount of proof is going to be sufficient because if it shows unlucky battles, it's "hax", and if it shows times when the AI didn't take an ample opportunity to hax the player when it could/should have (I specifically posted a replay of my fight against the Triples Chatelaine where I fucked up hard and should have lost except Moltres missed with Overheat at a crucial moment), then it's an instance of the fact that the AI can't cheat all the time because that would be too obvious.
I realized after I read the post I quoted above that this was one of those cases where no argument I present will be sufficient and changed the subject.
A key part of getting better at the maison is recognizing that your choices and decisions, even very corner case ones, matter a lot. But if you just blindly blame the supposed "cheating AI" for all your losses, it's pretty easy to miss this rather simple insight. So these whiners aren't merely spreading false information; they're actively handicapping themselves and those who listen to them!! One of the many joys of Smogon's discussion of the maison (and the earlier facilities) is that there's no need to constantly wade through this "it's all hax / AI cheating" crap.
To be fair though, in the very early days of this thread, before things got organized and Eppie took over, there were a number of those bogus complaints here, too. When SuMo arrives, with its new battle facility (I hope / pray / assume at least!), I intend to make sure we avoid such an initial free-for-all of unsubstantiated and often demonstrably false claims.
To be fair though, in the very early days of this thread, before things got organized and Eppie took over, there were a number of those bogus complaints here, too. When SuMo arrives, with its new battle facility (I hope / pray / assume at least!), I intend to make sure we avoid such an initial free-for-all of unsubstantiated and often demonstrably false claims.
awww but sometimes it's fun to have things to laugh at
I'm actually wondering with a wee bit of excitement how many "bad" things will migrate over to the 7th Gen facility. There are some DPP sets that have managed to remain in the game through ORAS, such as Walrein4. I'm sure it'll remain a thing because of its notoriety, but how about, say, Tyrantrum4? Some Platinum enemies gained tutor attacks, and while ORAS did not follow suit, the potential is there. Traditionally the Choiced sets have been pretty dangerous under many circumstances, and I can't wait to see which of the brand new pokes will be added to the list.
For easier guesswork, this also more than likely means some older, crummier sets may join the likes of Glalie, Crawdaunt & Friends in the demoted group. Could we lose Quagsire? Mr. Mime? Dewgong, Granbull, Breloom, Whiscash, Absol..? Perhaps not all of them, but I expect there to be some removals.
For easier guesswork, this also more than likely means some older, crummier sets may join the likes of Glalie, Crawdaunt & Friends in the demoted group. Could we lose Quagsire? Mr. Mime? Dewgong, Granbull, Breloom, Whiscash, Absol..? Perhaps not all of them, but I expect there to be some removals.
NO PLEASE DON'T TAKE THEM AWAY
In all seriousness, though:
- I hope Mr.Mime3 sticks around, I have had an unhealthy fascination with the Maison's Light Clay Legion and were among my first Imperfect breeding projects, going so far as to raise Magnemite2 and Braxien1
- I can take or leave Quagsire
- Dewgong34 are cool, 4 is underrated in its bulk and should remain a sneaky annoying set to deal with
- Granbull is stupid and will go, Scrafty will take its place in the roster of whoever takes up the Mass Intimidate mantle
- I can take or leave Breloom
- Whiscash has to stay, Game Freak seems to love them their Water/Grounds
- Absol will stay, most of the sets suck but 3 can be dangerous and 1 makes a great punching bag
If anyone is in danger of demotion, it has to be Vespiquen...has anyone on here ever lost a streak to that useless hive?
In all seriousness, though:
- I hope Mr.Mime3 sticks around, I have had an unhealthy fascination with the Maison's Light Clay Legion and were among my first Imperfect breeding projects, going so far as to raise Magnemite2 and Braxien1
- I can take or leave Quagsire
- Dewgong34 are cool, 4 is underrated in its bulk and should remain a sneaky annoying set to deal with
- Granbull is stupid and will go, Scrafty will take its place in the roster of whoever takes up the Mass Intimidate mantle
- I can take or leave Breloom
- Whiscash has to stay, Game Freak seems to love them their Water/Grounds
- Absol will stay, most of the sets suck but 3 can be dangerous and 1 makes a great punching bag
If anyone is in danger of demotion, it has to be Vespiquen...has anyone on here ever lost a streak to that useless hive?
Emphatically not (requires a few posts of reading)
update: fucking hell i lost before 50 on doubles >:/
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...like I said, useless hive.
I learned three things from reading that warstory:
- Peterko probably shouldn't have gone
- Muk4 has been around awhile, it seems
- I was interested in the set that basically saved his bacon:
Thx for linking to that, btw...more Pinsir4-related research in my future, I guess.
EDIT: Well, this could end up being a bad idea:
BF785 (Vespiquen) (F) (Lvl.50) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/xx
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Confuse Ray
- Roost/Heal Order
- Defend Order
- Attack Order
Yes, I'm adding the above-mentioned set to The Bench. The fact that she was made to fit into O.S.W.M. just makes this worse. However, having this in the sixth slot will be a true test of the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales; if the team can survive ten battles with this deadweight in tow, then it is truly my best team to date and a solid squad overall. I go back and forth on the healing move due to me not being completely comfortable with predicting the right time to Roost yet; the move seems like more like a "high-risk, high-reward" option compared to the more conservative value of Heal Order. Plus, I'm a sucker for giving 'mons all of their signature moves, if they have them.
EDIT 2: Well, it can't be too bad of an idea if I just tied sunzet-therian forme at 385 wins with it.
I learned three things from reading that warstory:
- Peterko probably shouldn't have gone
he should know better than that
- Muk4 has been around awhile, it seems
- I was interested in the set that basically saved his bacon:
That looks amazing, I must breed that immediately!
Thx for linking to that, btw...more Pinsir4-related research in my future, I guess.
EDIT: Well, this could end up being a bad idea:
BF785 (Vespiquen) (F) (Lvl.50) @ Shell Bell
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/xx
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Confuse Ray
- Roost/Heal Order
- Defend Order
- Attack Order
Yes, I'm adding the above-mentioned set to The Bench. The fact that she was made to fit into O.S.W.M. just makes this worse. However, having this in the sixth slot will be a true test of the Roslindale Condores/Quetzales; if the team can survive ten battles with this deadweight in tow, then it is truly my best team to date and a solid squad overall. I go back and forth on the healing move due to me not being completely comfortable with predicting the right time to Roost yet; the move seems like more like a "high-risk, high-reward" option compared to the more conservative value of Heal Order. Plus, I'm a sucker for giving 'mons all of their signature moves, if they have them.
EDIT 2: Well, it can't be too bad of an idea if I just tied sunzet-therian forme at 385 wins with it.
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Unfortunately, Vespiquen has only come in to tank a couple of hits, either to save my backup Starters unnecessary hits or to allow a safe Bisharp shift; The Starters are solid enough that Vespiquen has had no active participation in the battles. In fact, the most it has gotten to do at any point so far is two Defend Orders plus one Roost, and this was a "last opponent Regice2" situation where the battle was basically on lock...
...oh wait, scratch that, Vespiquen just took out Reuniclus4 with Attack Order (with an assist from Megatoise, of course).
I would keep her around to see how much further I can push, but being this close (390) to 400 means I now have to stop dicking around and get a better Bench player some minutes. Maybe another time...
...oh wait, scratch that, Vespiquen just took out Reuniclus4 with Attack Order (with an assist from Megatoise, of course).
I would keep her around to see how much further I can push, but being this close (390) to 400 means I now have to stop dicking around and get a better Bench player some minutes. Maybe another time...
I hope Vespiquen gets a Beedrill-esque Mega Evolution that just cuts the shit, plummets a useless stat (speed in this case) as low as possible and just jacks an offense and defenses way up, while also giving it an excellent ability.
As it stands I liked using the set I made for it (Fell Stinger/Acrobatics/Attack Order/Destiny Bond holding a Lansat) as a backup poke where it could potentially do some stuff under TR, but that stuff proved to be too limited, especially while I was generally trying to win. Circumstances usually shat on it one way or another.
As it stands I liked using the set I made for it (Fell Stinger/Acrobatics/Attack Order/Destiny Bond holding a Lansat) as a backup poke where it could potentially do some stuff under TR, but that stuff proved to be too limited, especially while I was generally trying to win. Circumstances usually shat on it one way or another.
Hi all, been stalking this thread for a few years now and have finally started serious attempts at the Battle Maison in ORAS, while my main goal is to get all trophies - I recently went on a bit of a streak in Super Doubles with a team I'd thrown together after some testing. I guess I'm here to post that streak :D Which sadly ended tonight as a result of a haxy Latios >:( All in all, it ended with 108 consecutive wins, which I am more than proud of, particularly since I got to use some of my favourite Pokemon and the team was only every built for 50 wins, managing to more than double that. While there are certainly more impressive streaks, I'm very proud of how my team performed :)
The Super Doubles Team
Alomomola (m) Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Sp.Def
Moveset: Waterfall, Wish, Protect, Heal Pulse
Details: One of my first Pokemon that was properly bred and easily one of the most reliable. Alomomola's role was twofold in every battle. One was to provide clerical support and team care throughout the battle. She did this brilliantly. Heal Pulse was a move I was quite skeptical about at first, and in the ultimate match I lost - Toxic would have won it for me, but Heal Pulse was surprisingly versatile, healing up life-orb damaged Scizor and keeping Manectric going when he was worn down. The real catch here was that alongside Wish, Protect, Leftovers, Regenerator and her mammoth HP - Alomomola's second role was to distract the opponent and sponge hits. Countless battles were won where the opponent would recognise Alomomola, consistently attack, but be unable to push through her bulk and defences. Her weaknesses were definitely her passiveness without team support or toxic. I plan to bring her with me as I move on to Super Triples with a few adjustments (Wide Guard). Overall she got us through some hard times and was able to tank hits even from legendaries with ease.
Mega-Manectric (m) @ Manectrite
Nature: Timid
Ability: Lightningrod/Intimidate
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Speed.
Moveset: Thunderbolt, Protect, Thunder Wave, Flamethrower.
Details: The hard-hitter, lightning fast and intimidate was invaluable not only to itself surviving Earthquakes, but also to further Alomomola's already impressive bulk. Some matches I would halt mega-evolution to gain Special Attack boosts from Lightningrod, but most games went with the intimidate drop and a protect to scout the motives of the AI before proceedings. Mega-Manectric was real the core of this team, and the remaining two team members were largely chosen to absorb Earthquakes from and deal damage to resisting Pokemon. Manectric's insane Special Attack and almost unmatched speed were invaluable in every game. Often games resorted to Alomomola taking residual hits while alternating Protects and Thunderbolts from mantric cleared the enemy team. A great Pokemon, but also frail even with intimidate. Mega-Manectric ran into trouble with bulky types that could absorb its attacks, but I carried Thunderwave mainly to cripple before Mega-Manectric fainted, or more importantly - to paralyse Latios/Latias so Garchomp could move in and claim a kill. A great and reliable team member.
Garchomp (m) @ Expert Belt
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed.
Moveset: Dragon Claw, Protect, Rock Slide, Earthquake.
Details: No one needs an explanation as to why Garchomp works. He's one of those few blessings Gamefreak have granted us. The typing, the stats and the visuals are enough of a justification. Garchomp went on and off this team here and there - but ultimately he came back due to his excellent and consistent KOing record and his resistance to many of the moves that threatened the rest of the team. Namely electric attacks on Alomomola, or even unsavoury attacks towards Mega-Manectric. The Expert Belt gave the extra 'oomph' needed to clear through several opponents and many games were won with just Garchomp standing and a weakened opponent. The Ice weakness is notable, but the rest of the team (mainly Mega-Manectric's Flamethrower and Scizor's Bullet Punch) could deal and eliminate Ice Types before Garchomp entered the fray. Garchomp was unfortunately gimped in the final battle, a Latios with an accuracy reducing item like Brightpowder in explicitly dodged a Dragon Claw and the rest was history after that. Still, Garchomp is a beast that deserves its competitive hype and its usefulness in the Battle Maison should not be understated.
Scizor (m) @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Atk, 4 Speed.
Moveset: Bug Bite, Protect, Sword Dance, Bullet Punch.
Details: Scizor is also an objectively amazing Pokemon. It's typing, stats and ability make it a force to be reckoned with. In the Battle Maison, Scizor was the latest addition to my team, adding him after a series of loses due to priority moves and not enough resistance's. Scizor filled that problem easily and perfectly. It hits hard enough by itself with Life Orb and Technician, but after a Sword Dance there's not much that can confidently take a hit from either Bug Bite or more prominently, Bullet Punch. The battle scenario would often go: An earthquake or physical move threatens Mega-Manectric, switch to Scizor to take the -1 (after intimidate) move, then either Sword Dance or proceed immediately to dispose of the other team. Almomomala and Garchomp made good allies, with Alomomola being able to distract and heal life orb damage on Scizor and Garchomp's Earthquake doing negligible damage to Scizor if times got tough. Many bulky Pokemon and legendaries fell to this beast, and he has my thanks. Removing Fire types was generally the priority mid-match, and in the final game when I saw Entei come out after the unlucky loss of Garchomp, I accepted my fate. Still - Scizor earns its name not only as a good Pokemon, but having a wicked design to match.
Concluding Thoughts
As I said, this team was only every designed to barely scrape 50 wins, after 60, 70, 80 and 90 I wondered how long it could afford to push its limits. Getting past 100 was a great moment and I'm more than happy earning a spot in that Super Doubles streak record list! I'd highly recommend anyone of these Pokemon to people wishing to secure that Super Doubles trophy. I didn't want to use Mega-Kanghaskhan or Aegislash or Talonflame and instead wanted to try a combination of decent Pokemon with some of my favs. The ultimate streak came to 108 wins, I'm now gonna move on to Super Triples!
Defeat: I knew it would be a bloody Veteran, with their smug scarfs and epic coats, always cracking some smartass comment about catching Pokeballs even though they're a bunch of hackers using legendaries, bah! Nah they're alright. But ultimately it was a bright powder Latias and an unfortunate abundance of Fire types that did me in. I could have played the match better, by maybe switching Mega-Manectric at the start but I don't know. The really frustrating thing if you watch is that Entei and Regigigas were absolute dead weight the both of them! Especially against Almomola! If she had carried Toxic it was a probable victory…. but alas, hindsight makes us all look like fools in the Battle Maison.
Super Doubles Streak: 108 Battles in ORAS.
Battle Video: G43G-WWWW-WW47-FL3K
Thanks for reading!
The Super Doubles Team
Alomomola (m) Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Ability: Regenerator
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Sp.Def
Moveset: Waterfall, Wish, Protect, Heal Pulse
Details: One of my first Pokemon that was properly bred and easily one of the most reliable. Alomomola's role was twofold in every battle. One was to provide clerical support and team care throughout the battle. She did this brilliantly. Heal Pulse was a move I was quite skeptical about at first, and in the ultimate match I lost - Toxic would have won it for me, but Heal Pulse was surprisingly versatile, healing up life-orb damaged Scizor and keeping Manectric going when he was worn down. The real catch here was that alongside Wish, Protect, Leftovers, Regenerator and her mammoth HP - Alomomola's second role was to distract the opponent and sponge hits. Countless battles were won where the opponent would recognise Alomomola, consistently attack, but be unable to push through her bulk and defences. Her weaknesses were definitely her passiveness without team support or toxic. I plan to bring her with me as I move on to Super Triples with a few adjustments (Wide Guard). Overall she got us through some hard times and was able to tank hits even from legendaries with ease.
Mega-Manectric (m) @ Manectrite
Nature: Timid
Ability: Lightningrod/Intimidate
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Speed.
Moveset: Thunderbolt, Protect, Thunder Wave, Flamethrower.
Details: The hard-hitter, lightning fast and intimidate was invaluable not only to itself surviving Earthquakes, but also to further Alomomola's already impressive bulk. Some matches I would halt mega-evolution to gain Special Attack boosts from Lightningrod, but most games went with the intimidate drop and a protect to scout the motives of the AI before proceedings. Mega-Manectric was real the core of this team, and the remaining two team members were largely chosen to absorb Earthquakes from and deal damage to resisting Pokemon. Manectric's insane Special Attack and almost unmatched speed were invaluable in every game. Often games resorted to Alomomola taking residual hits while alternating Protects and Thunderbolts from mantric cleared the enemy team. A great Pokemon, but also frail even with intimidate. Mega-Manectric ran into trouble with bulky types that could absorb its attacks, but I carried Thunderwave mainly to cripple before Mega-Manectric fainted, or more importantly - to paralyse Latios/Latias so Garchomp could move in and claim a kill. A great and reliable team member.
Garchomp (m) @ Expert Belt
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 4 Hp/ 252 Atk/ 252 Speed.
Moveset: Dragon Claw, Protect, Rock Slide, Earthquake.
Details: No one needs an explanation as to why Garchomp works. He's one of those few blessings Gamefreak have granted us. The typing, the stats and the visuals are enough of a justification. Garchomp went on and off this team here and there - but ultimately he came back due to his excellent and consistent KOing record and his resistance to many of the moves that threatened the rest of the team. Namely electric attacks on Alomomola, or even unsavoury attacks towards Mega-Manectric. The Expert Belt gave the extra 'oomph' needed to clear through several opponents and many games were won with just Garchomp standing and a weakened opponent. The Ice weakness is notable, but the rest of the team (mainly Mega-Manectric's Flamethrower and Scizor's Bullet Punch) could deal and eliminate Ice Types before Garchomp entered the fray. Garchomp was unfortunately gimped in the final battle, a Latios with an accuracy reducing item like Brightpowder in explicitly dodged a Dragon Claw and the rest was history after that. Still, Garchomp is a beast that deserves its competitive hype and its usefulness in the Battle Maison should not be understated.
Scizor (m) @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Technician
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 Hp, 252 Atk, 4 Speed.
Moveset: Bug Bite, Protect, Sword Dance, Bullet Punch.
Details: Scizor is also an objectively amazing Pokemon. It's typing, stats and ability make it a force to be reckoned with. In the Battle Maison, Scizor was the latest addition to my team, adding him after a series of loses due to priority moves and not enough resistance's. Scizor filled that problem easily and perfectly. It hits hard enough by itself with Life Orb and Technician, but after a Sword Dance there's not much that can confidently take a hit from either Bug Bite or more prominently, Bullet Punch. The battle scenario would often go: An earthquake or physical move threatens Mega-Manectric, switch to Scizor to take the -1 (after intimidate) move, then either Sword Dance or proceed immediately to dispose of the other team. Almomomala and Garchomp made good allies, with Alomomola being able to distract and heal life orb damage on Scizor and Garchomp's Earthquake doing negligible damage to Scizor if times got tough. Many bulky Pokemon and legendaries fell to this beast, and he has my thanks. Removing Fire types was generally the priority mid-match, and in the final game when I saw Entei come out after the unlucky loss of Garchomp, I accepted my fate. Still - Scizor earns its name not only as a good Pokemon, but having a wicked design to match.
Concluding Thoughts
As I said, this team was only every designed to barely scrape 50 wins, after 60, 70, 80 and 90 I wondered how long it could afford to push its limits. Getting past 100 was a great moment and I'm more than happy earning a spot in that Super Doubles streak record list! I'd highly recommend anyone of these Pokemon to people wishing to secure that Super Doubles trophy. I didn't want to use Mega-Kanghaskhan or Aegislash or Talonflame and instead wanted to try a combination of decent Pokemon with some of my favs. The ultimate streak came to 108 wins, I'm now gonna move on to Super Triples!
Defeat: I knew it would be a bloody Veteran, with their smug scarfs and epic coats, always cracking some smartass comment about catching Pokeballs even though they're a bunch of hackers using legendaries, bah! Nah they're alright. But ultimately it was a bright powder Latias and an unfortunate abundance of Fire types that did me in. I could have played the match better, by maybe switching Mega-Manectric at the start but I don't know. The really frustrating thing if you watch is that Entei and Regigigas were absolute dead weight the both of them! Especially against Almomola! If she had carried Toxic it was a probable victory…. but alas, hindsight makes us all look like fools in the Battle Maison.
Super Doubles Streak: 108 Battles in ORAS.
Battle Video: G43G-WWWW-WW47-FL3K
Thanks for reading!
A while ago, I managed to get a streak of 255 wins in Super Triples on Omega Ruby. Battle Video for proof further down in this post.
Unlike most of my previous high streaks (anything over 200 is high for me personally), I got this with a team I created on my own. Or that's what I would like to say, but I'm not sure how much credit I can actually take for the team. I lurk this thread a lot and it is hard to not get inspired from other people here and their awesome teams. What I really did was to take several different ideas I have seen in this thread and mix them together into something new.
Anyway. Here's the team and various information surrounding it.
Talonflame (F) @ Sharp Beak ** Newly Reborn
Ability: Gale Wings
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 6 Sp.def
Nature: Adamant
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect
Chandelure (F) @ Wide Lens ** Signal Fire
Ability: Infiltrator
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 14 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.att / 4 Sp.def / 236 Spd
Nature: Modest
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Protect
Greninja (M) @ Focus Sash ** Blue Matter
Ability: Protean
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Sp.att / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Mat Block
Sylveon (M) @ Choice Specs ** The Watcher
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.att / 4 Sp.def / 244 Spd
Nature: Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Swift
- Shadow Ball
Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb ** Come Alive
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def / 4 Sp.def / 244 Spd
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Cyberpunk
Ability: Clear Body -> Tough Claws
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 86 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def / 4 Sp.def / 164 Spd
Nature: Adamant
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect
This team was a lot of fun to use and I am happy about this streak. That said, I will not give it another try, simply because I don't have the time or motivation. My main focus for the Maison right now is to get all trophies in OR/AS and I want to be done with that before Sun/Moon are released. I should hopefully have all trophies in both games at some point during the summer. I also have a finished Super Rotation streak which I am going to make a post about soon.
Unlike most of my previous high streaks (anything over 200 is high for me personally), I got this with a team I created on my own. Or that's what I would like to say, but I'm not sure how much credit I can actually take for the team. I lurk this thread a lot and it is hard to not get inspired from other people here and their awesome teams. What I really did was to take several different ideas I have seen in this thread and mix them together into something new.
Anyway. Here's the team and various information surrounding it.
Talonflame (F) @ Sharp Beak ** Newly Reborn
Ability: Gale Wings
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 6 Sp.def
Nature: Adamant
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect
Chandelure (F) @ Wide Lens ** Signal Fire
Ability: Infiltrator
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 14 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.att / 4 Sp.def / 236 Spd
Nature: Modest
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Protect
Greninja (M) @ Focus Sash ** Blue Matter
Ability: Protean
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Sp.att / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Mat Block
Sylveon (M) @ Choice Specs ** The Watcher
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 4 Def / 252 Sp.att / 4 Sp.def / 244 Spd
Nature: Modest
- Hyper Voice
- Dazzling Gleam
- Swift
- Shadow Ball
Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb ** Come Alive
Ability: Rough Skin
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def / 4 Sp.def / 244 Spd
Nature: Adamant
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Metagross @ Metagrossite ** Cyberpunk
Ability: Clear Body -> Tough Claws
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 86 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def / 4 Sp.def / 164 Spd
Nature: Adamant
- Iron Head
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Protect
I'm not sure who invented the Talonflame / X / Greninja lead core, but thanks to whoever did for doing so. If anyone knows who the original creator is, let me know so I can credit them properly.
Jumpman16 and NoCheese for Sylveon's moveset, I took their ideas and mixed them together.
Various other people in this thread for unconsciously inspiring me in various ways.
Jumpman16 and NoCheese for Sylveon's moveset, I took their ideas and mixed them together.
Various other people in this thread for unconsciously inspiring me in various ways.
Early on, I decided that I wanted to use the Greninja / X / Talonflame lead core. I had used it in X before and it worked quite well, although not perfectly. I had a feeling I could make better use of it than previously.
I also wanted to use Choice Specs Uber Voice Sylveon as a backup since I missed out on that opportunity in X/Y.
So my original setup looked like this:
Leads: Talonflame / X / Greninja
Backups: Sylveon / Y / Z
But which Pokemon should be at the spots for X, Y, and Z?
I had a few ideas. At first, I thought I should create something similar to The Dutch Plumberjack's team. The idea of having a Mega Manectric with Lightning Rod and Volt Switch in the lead seemed great as it allowed for some good setups. But I didn't want to use Manectric (since that would be a direct copy) and I have planned to use Manectric on a future team. I have also used Manectric before, and I wanted to try something new for this team. I checked to see if there existed something similar but I couldn't find any Pokemon which felt like they could be equally successful. Looked through all the ones that learned Volt Switch and U-turn but none lived up to my requirements. The closest I got was probably Raichu which is fast and gets Lightning Rod, but it is rather weak offensively without a boost. I also considered Mega Sceptile as a Lightningrod user but scrapped that as well.
Instead, I tried to find a strong and reasonably fast spread attacker in the lead spot. Some of my original considerations were these:
Mega Blastoise (really good with Water Spout, but it has been used by many others and I have used it before as well)
Mega Charizard Y (pretty cool but inaccurate Heat Wave doesn't feel that good, also requires the rest of the team to benefit from sun)
Typhlosion (strong Eruption but weak without Sun/Specs, can't have the latter since that was given to Sylveon, and Sun takes a turn to set up which isn't good as it might cause me to lose momentum)
Heatran with Eruption might have been something to consider if it hadn't been for the fact that it is only obtainable through an event which I don't have.
I then thought about having a Physical Attacker with STAB Rock Slide (or maybe something similar) holding a Wide Lens. Tyranitar was one alternative but it has a few problems. It has an Ability which the rest of the team might not like. While I could have used its Hidden Ability, that would mean it would lose out on a lot of special bulk which makes it a bit worse. It is also rather slow, even with Tailwind, which would require it to set up a Dragon Dance, which takes time... so I scrapped it. Considered Terrakion as well before scrapping it too.
Finally, I decided to go with Chandelure. If we discount Megas and Legendaries, it has the second highest Special Attack of all Pokemon, beaten only by Aegislash. Funnily enough, both of them are Ghost-types. Either way, Chandelure had all the things I wanted. In addition to being strong, it has perfect Speed for Tailwind and a good enough movepool.
With it decided, I looked at what I could need more. With two of my leads being weak to Electric and two being weak to Rock, having a resist or immunity to these types was obviously going to be required. Ground is a good type to take care of this since it resists Rock and is immune to Electric. I looked through the list of Ground-types and saw one thing I had previously used before to great success. Garchomp. It has worked well for me in previous teams so I decided to use it again. Considered using Mega Garchomp but scrapped it for two reasons. One thing I really like with Garchomp is its unique base Speed and it loses that when it Mega Evolves. Then I had also not yet met the requirements for obtaining the Garchopmite on this game, so... regular Garchomp it was.
Then, as for the last Pokemon. At this point, I did not need anything more for defensive coverage as the five members of my team were together resistant or immune to every type. Instead, I had some other requirements. I really wanted to use a Mega on the team. I also wanted to use a Mega which I hadn't used before. And since I was done with defensive coverage, I wanted to try and improve my offensive coverage instead. I looked through what types I was hitting for Super Effective damage with the movesets of the five current members of the team and I saw that I was only missing out on two types: Normal and Fairy. Out of them, Normal isn't that important since it has no resistances and only one immunity. But what about Fairy? It could be pretty bad for Garchomp. Fairy has two weaknesses, Poison and Steel. So, a Poison or Steel-type Mega. And preferably a Physical attacker since my team at this point consisted of 2 Physical attackers and 3 Special attackers. The question was: which one?
I looked through all the ones that exist, starting with Poison.
Venusaur - Not really what I was looking for
Gengar - Good but not in the Maison, also a Special Attacker
Beedrill - Strong and fast, but way too frail
None from Poison suited me. What about Steel then?
Scizor - Used it before, pretty cool but slow outside of Bullet Punch even with Tailwind [though, now that I look at its base Speed, it is faster than both Sylveon and regular Metagross]
Mawile - Incredibly strong with good STABS but way too slow, even with Tailwind. I had also used it before
Aggron - Too slow, and it is more of a defensive Pokemon which isn't that useful in Triples
Lucario - Not bad, but I had used it before. Was also missing its Mega stone on this game at this point
Steelix - Same issues as Aggron
Metagross - THIS IS IT. Just the Pokemon I was looking for.
Mega Metagross has everything I was looking for. Great Attack and Speed, a good movepool and it is rather bulky too.
With that, the team was complete!
I also wanted to use Choice Specs Uber Voice Sylveon as a backup since I missed out on that opportunity in X/Y.
So my original setup looked like this:
Leads: Talonflame / X / Greninja
Backups: Sylveon / Y / Z
But which Pokemon should be at the spots for X, Y, and Z?
I had a few ideas. At first, I thought I should create something similar to The Dutch Plumberjack's team. The idea of having a Mega Manectric with Lightning Rod and Volt Switch in the lead seemed great as it allowed for some good setups. But I didn't want to use Manectric (since that would be a direct copy) and I have planned to use Manectric on a future team. I have also used Manectric before, and I wanted to try something new for this team. I checked to see if there existed something similar but I couldn't find any Pokemon which felt like they could be equally successful. Looked through all the ones that learned Volt Switch and U-turn but none lived up to my requirements. The closest I got was probably Raichu which is fast and gets Lightning Rod, but it is rather weak offensively without a boost. I also considered Mega Sceptile as a Lightningrod user but scrapped that as well.
Instead, I tried to find a strong and reasonably fast spread attacker in the lead spot. Some of my original considerations were these:
Mega Blastoise (really good with Water Spout, but it has been used by many others and I have used it before as well)
Mega Charizard Y (pretty cool but inaccurate Heat Wave doesn't feel that good, also requires the rest of the team to benefit from sun)
Typhlosion (strong Eruption but weak without Sun/Specs, can't have the latter since that was given to Sylveon, and Sun takes a turn to set up which isn't good as it might cause me to lose momentum)
Heatran with Eruption might have been something to consider if it hadn't been for the fact that it is only obtainable through an event which I don't have.
I then thought about having a Physical Attacker with STAB Rock Slide (or maybe something similar) holding a Wide Lens. Tyranitar was one alternative but it has a few problems. It has an Ability which the rest of the team might not like. While I could have used its Hidden Ability, that would mean it would lose out on a lot of special bulk which makes it a bit worse. It is also rather slow, even with Tailwind, which would require it to set up a Dragon Dance, which takes time... so I scrapped it. Considered Terrakion as well before scrapping it too.
Finally, I decided to go with Chandelure. If we discount Megas and Legendaries, it has the second highest Special Attack of all Pokemon, beaten only by Aegislash. Funnily enough, both of them are Ghost-types. Either way, Chandelure had all the things I wanted. In addition to being strong, it has perfect Speed for Tailwind and a good enough movepool.
With it decided, I looked at what I could need more. With two of my leads being weak to Electric and two being weak to Rock, having a resist or immunity to these types was obviously going to be required. Ground is a good type to take care of this since it resists Rock and is immune to Electric. I looked through the list of Ground-types and saw one thing I had previously used before to great success. Garchomp. It has worked well for me in previous teams so I decided to use it again. Considered using Mega Garchomp but scrapped it for two reasons. One thing I really like with Garchomp is its unique base Speed and it loses that when it Mega Evolves. Then I had also not yet met the requirements for obtaining the Garchopmite on this game, so... regular Garchomp it was.
Then, as for the last Pokemon. At this point, I did not need anything more for defensive coverage as the five members of my team were together resistant or immune to every type. Instead, I had some other requirements. I really wanted to use a Mega on the team. I also wanted to use a Mega which I hadn't used before. And since I was done with defensive coverage, I wanted to try and improve my offensive coverage instead. I looked through what types I was hitting for Super Effective damage with the movesets of the five current members of the team and I saw that I was only missing out on two types: Normal and Fairy. Out of them, Normal isn't that important since it has no resistances and only one immunity. But what about Fairy? It could be pretty bad for Garchomp. Fairy has two weaknesses, Poison and Steel. So, a Poison or Steel-type Mega. And preferably a Physical attacker since my team at this point consisted of 2 Physical attackers and 3 Special attackers. The question was: which one?
I looked through all the ones that exist, starting with Poison.
Venusaur - Not really what I was looking for
Gengar - Good but not in the Maison, also a Special Attacker
Beedrill - Strong and fast, but way too frail
None from Poison suited me. What about Steel then?
Scizor - Used it before, pretty cool but slow outside of Bullet Punch even with Tailwind [though, now that I look at its base Speed, it is faster than both Sylveon and regular Metagross]
Mawile - Incredibly strong with good STABS but way too slow, even with Tailwind. I had also used it before
Aggron - Too slow, and it is more of a defensive Pokemon which isn't that useful in Triples
Lucario - Not bad, but I had used it before. Was also missing its Mega stone on this game at this point
Steelix - Same issues as Aggron
Metagross - THIS IS IT. Just the Pokemon I was looking for.
Mega Metagross has everything I was looking for. Great Attack and Speed, a good movepool and it is rather bulky too.
With that, the team was complete!
Talonflame and Greninja are as standard as they can be, I don't think either of them require any explanation. Mat Block + Tailwind gives the team a lot of momentum, it practically gives the middle position two free turns for attacking. Tailwind makes my team faster than almost everything the Maison has to counter with.
As for Chandelure, Heat Wave is the obligatory STAB move as it hits the entire opposing field and gets 99% accuracy with Wide Lens, which is good enough. It has missed a few times but they never costed me a battle or put me in a bad situation. Shadow Ball is an obligatory secondary STAB move which is very useful against Trick Room teams that tend to be heavy on Psychic- and Ghost-types. Energy Ball was chosen as the final move since it hits Water-, Ground- and Rock-types for super effective damage, all of which Chandelure is weak against. Protect is always good for utility and gaining momentum. I wasn't sure which Ability to use on Chandelure at first. Flash Fire seemed like it could be useful to make Heat Wave even stronger, but I would have to activate it somehow. While Talonflame could do this with Flare Blitz, it felt kind of unnecessary. Instead, I went with Infiltrator. Being able to hit through Substitutes and Light Screens has been useful at times, though it never really "saved" me. As for the EVs, Max Sp.att and then enough Speed to reach 130 (which is possible without using a +Speed Nature, thankfully), the rest in defenses and HP to maximize bulk. The fact that Chandelure is a Ghost-type was also very useful to prevent opposing Fake Out users from disturbing it (except Scrappy Kangaskhan).
The usual lead strategy is to use Tailwind, Heat Wave and Mat Block to gain momentum and deal damage. Now, Heat Wave is good but it isn't that strong, the opponents usually survive unless they are weak to it and/or have low Sp.def. But this was usually not a bad thing. If Chandelure could weaken all opponents on turn 1, I could usually defeat all of them on turn 2 to put myself in a 6-3 lead position by turn 3, which is very hard to lose with. There were several situations where Heat Wave wasn't the most optimal move and I had to use Shadow Ball or Energy Ball instead, but the main strategy was the same in most situations.
Sylveon is simple. Spam Hyper Voice until everything dies. Though that isn't really the case. The other moves do serve a purpose. Dazzling Gleam is for when I need a powerful Fairy-type move but can't use Hyper Voice, which happened when I was facing Soundproof Pokemon. Swift was if I desperately needed to hit an opponent which has increased Evasion. Shadow Ball for the final slot as Ghost and Fairy gets near-perfect coverage together (only missing out on Pyroar, I believe) and it was useful against Trick Room teams which contain a lot of Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon.
As for Garchomp, Dragon Claw, Earthquake and Protect are obvious. I was unsure about what to use in the final slot for a while. I considered Crunch, Rock Slide and Iron Head at first, but eventually decided on Swords Dance. Garchomp doesn't really need more than its STABs since the rest of the team can handle potential things that resist them, and since I don't have any other boosting move on the team, I decided to go with Swords Dance. It was helpful at a few different occasions. I also decided to go with an Adamant Nature for Garchomp as opposed to Jolly since Tailwind will be up most of the time and Garchomp is fast enough as it is, while some extra power won't hurt. I gave it enough Speed to outrun neutral base 100s even without Tailwind, maxed Attack and put the rest in defenses and HP. Its Speed did lead to some unexpected situations though as it got outrun by unexpected things like Electivire in situations where Tailwind wasn't up. Life Orb felt like the best item in order to give it some extra power, it works well on Garchomp and no other member of the team needed it.
Metagross is rather self-explanatory. Iron Head for STAB and then BoltBeam punches for coverage, all three moves get a Tough Claws boost too which is neat. Protect because it is always useful in Triples. Was unsure about how much Speed I should give it though, the given EVs ties it with Sylveon before Mega Evolving, and it is two points below Garchomp after Mega Evolving. I thought about raising its Speed a little to make it as fast as Garchomp after Mega Evolving or maybe even faster, but it never happened. The fact that it is Steel-type is also useful as it allows me to auto-win against certain Toxistallers like Cresselia2 if I should find myself in such a situation.
While playing, I thought a lot about if I could have balanced things better defensively. Talonflame and Chandelure are both weak to Water, Chandelure is also weak to Ground and none of my backups resist those types. I considered changing one of my backups to a Water-type or something that is immune to Ground, the one I had in mind was Gyarados, maybe with the ability to Mega Evolve. But I never ended up doing the change and I'm not sure whom Gyarados would have replaced if I had made it.
As for Chandelure, Heat Wave is the obligatory STAB move as it hits the entire opposing field and gets 99% accuracy with Wide Lens, which is good enough. It has missed a few times but they never costed me a battle or put me in a bad situation. Shadow Ball is an obligatory secondary STAB move which is very useful against Trick Room teams that tend to be heavy on Psychic- and Ghost-types. Energy Ball was chosen as the final move since it hits Water-, Ground- and Rock-types for super effective damage, all of which Chandelure is weak against. Protect is always good for utility and gaining momentum. I wasn't sure which Ability to use on Chandelure at first. Flash Fire seemed like it could be useful to make Heat Wave even stronger, but I would have to activate it somehow. While Talonflame could do this with Flare Blitz, it felt kind of unnecessary. Instead, I went with Infiltrator. Being able to hit through Substitutes and Light Screens has been useful at times, though it never really "saved" me. As for the EVs, Max Sp.att and then enough Speed to reach 130 (which is possible without using a +Speed Nature, thankfully), the rest in defenses and HP to maximize bulk. The fact that Chandelure is a Ghost-type was also very useful to prevent opposing Fake Out users from disturbing it (except Scrappy Kangaskhan).
The usual lead strategy is to use Tailwind, Heat Wave and Mat Block to gain momentum and deal damage. Now, Heat Wave is good but it isn't that strong, the opponents usually survive unless they are weak to it and/or have low Sp.def. But this was usually not a bad thing. If Chandelure could weaken all opponents on turn 1, I could usually defeat all of them on turn 2 to put myself in a 6-3 lead position by turn 3, which is very hard to lose with. There were several situations where Heat Wave wasn't the most optimal move and I had to use Shadow Ball or Energy Ball instead, but the main strategy was the same in most situations.
Sylveon is simple. Spam Hyper Voice until everything dies. Though that isn't really the case. The other moves do serve a purpose. Dazzling Gleam is for when I need a powerful Fairy-type move but can't use Hyper Voice, which happened when I was facing Soundproof Pokemon. Swift was if I desperately needed to hit an opponent which has increased Evasion. Shadow Ball for the final slot as Ghost and Fairy gets near-perfect coverage together (only missing out on Pyroar, I believe) and it was useful against Trick Room teams which contain a lot of Psychic- and Ghost-type Pokemon.
As for Garchomp, Dragon Claw, Earthquake and Protect are obvious. I was unsure about what to use in the final slot for a while. I considered Crunch, Rock Slide and Iron Head at first, but eventually decided on Swords Dance. Garchomp doesn't really need more than its STABs since the rest of the team can handle potential things that resist them, and since I don't have any other boosting move on the team, I decided to go with Swords Dance. It was helpful at a few different occasions. I also decided to go with an Adamant Nature for Garchomp as opposed to Jolly since Tailwind will be up most of the time and Garchomp is fast enough as it is, while some extra power won't hurt. I gave it enough Speed to outrun neutral base 100s even without Tailwind, maxed Attack and put the rest in defenses and HP. Its Speed did lead to some unexpected situations though as it got outrun by unexpected things like Electivire in situations where Tailwind wasn't up. Life Orb felt like the best item in order to give it some extra power, it works well on Garchomp and no other member of the team needed it.
Metagross is rather self-explanatory. Iron Head for STAB and then BoltBeam punches for coverage, all three moves get a Tough Claws boost too which is neat. Protect because it is always useful in Triples. Was unsure about how much Speed I should give it though, the given EVs ties it with Sylveon before Mega Evolving, and it is two points below Garchomp after Mega Evolving. I thought about raising its Speed a little to make it as fast as Garchomp after Mega Evolving or maybe even faster, but it never happened. The fact that it is Steel-type is also useful as it allows me to auto-win against certain Toxistallers like Cresselia2 if I should find myself in such a situation.
While playing, I thought a lot about if I could have balanced things better defensively. Talonflame and Chandelure are both weak to Water, Chandelure is also weak to Ground and none of my backups resist those types. I considered changing one of my backups to a Water-type or something that is immune to Ground, the one I had in mind was Gyarados, maybe with the ability to Mega Evolve. But I never ended up doing the change and I'm not sure whom Gyarados would have replaced if I had made it.
Ok, I don't have a real "threatlist", but there were a few Pokemon to be careful about.
847 | Weavile4 | Jolly | Focus Sash | Taunt | Ice Punch | Night Slash | Fake Out | Atk/Spd
Faster than Greninja and can hit Chandelure with Night Slash before Mat Block, forcing me to use Protect on the first turn. Focus Sash means I have to attack it twice to take it down. Not really difficult, just something to be aware of.
Trick Room teams were usually not that difficult. Against them, I let Greninja use Mat Block as usual while Talonflame and Chandelure targeted the most threatening Trick Room setter. Mixed Trick Room teams could be tricky as they could contain Pokemon that were faster than Chandelure without Tailwind, this caught me off-guard a few times but it was usually not that much of a problem.
Multiple Water-type leads, and Water-types in general were annoying because Talonflame and Chandelure are weak to them, and none of my backups resist water. I usually handled them by using Tailwind/Energy Ball/Mat Block on turn 1, then Protect/Protect/Grass Knot on turn 2, then finally Brave Bird/Energy Ball/Grass Knot on turn 3. By then, most to all of them should have been defeated. Similarly, multiple Rock-type leads could be difficult but I found them manageable for the most part.
Status in general is an annoyance for any team, this one is no different. It was usually not that much of a problem and I could handle it, but seeing Chandelure getting Paralyzed or anything getting Confused was never fun.
Pokemon that are faster than Greninja and can KO Talonflame, like Manectric and Aerodactyl. They meant I usually couldn't set up Tailwind on turn 1 which was annoying. I could defeat Aerodactyl with Greninja's Ice Beam and switch out Talonflame for Garchomp to destroy Manectric since I don't like having to lose Talonflame on turn 1. In general, keeping Talonflame alive throughout the battles was something I usually did since it was my only Tailwind setter.
There might have been others but those are the main problematic ones I can think of.
847 | Weavile4 | Jolly | Focus Sash | Taunt | Ice Punch | Night Slash | Fake Out | Atk/Spd
Faster than Greninja and can hit Chandelure with Night Slash before Mat Block, forcing me to use Protect on the first turn. Focus Sash means I have to attack it twice to take it down. Not really difficult, just something to be aware of.
Trick Room teams were usually not that difficult. Against them, I let Greninja use Mat Block as usual while Talonflame and Chandelure targeted the most threatening Trick Room setter. Mixed Trick Room teams could be tricky as they could contain Pokemon that were faster than Chandelure without Tailwind, this caught me off-guard a few times but it was usually not that much of a problem.
Multiple Water-type leads, and Water-types in general were annoying because Talonflame and Chandelure are weak to them, and none of my backups resist water. I usually handled them by using Tailwind/Energy Ball/Mat Block on turn 1, then Protect/Protect/Grass Knot on turn 2, then finally Brave Bird/Energy Ball/Grass Knot on turn 3. By then, most to all of them should have been defeated. Similarly, multiple Rock-type leads could be difficult but I found them manageable for the most part.
Status in general is an annoyance for any team, this one is no different. It was usually not that much of a problem and I could handle it, but seeing Chandelure getting Paralyzed or anything getting Confused was never fun.
Pokemon that are faster than Greninja and can KO Talonflame, like Manectric and Aerodactyl. They meant I usually couldn't set up Tailwind on turn 1 which was annoying. I could defeat Aerodactyl with Greninja's Ice Beam and switch out Talonflame for Garchomp to destroy Manectric since I don't like having to lose Talonflame on turn 1. In general, keeping Talonflame alive throughout the battles was something I usually did since it was my only Tailwind setter.
There might have been others but those are the main problematic ones I can think of.
Battle Video: 645G-WWWW-WW3U-3XGU - VS. Manectric/Aerodactyl/Yanmega/Gliscor/Braviary/Dragonite
Not going to go into any details, it is too embarrassing. Simply put, the loss was caused by severe misplay from my side. My opponent leads with both Manectric and Aerodactyl, which means I can't set up Tailwind without losing Talonflame. I switch out Talonflame and try to defeat both of them but I fail, then I make the big mistake of using Earthquake with Garchomp to try and defeat Manectric when I know it is holding an Air Balloon as that was said at the beginning of the battle. In the end, I only had Sylveon left against 4 opponents and there were practically no chance of winning. Maybe if I had sent it out on the right side of the field instead of in the middle, but I don't know.
I would probably have won if I had sacrificed Talonflame and used Tailwind on turn 1, sent out Sylveon and used Hyper Voice/Heat Wave/Ice Beam on the following turns, but nothing can be done about that now.
I have a few other Battle Videos saved but most of them are not uploaded (the only other one I have uploaded is my battle against Dana, but I guess it isn't that interesting or important). If anyone wants to see any other battle videos, let me know. Most of them are from battles that was tough to win in one way or another.
Not going to go into any details, it is too embarrassing. Simply put, the loss was caused by severe misplay from my side. My opponent leads with both Manectric and Aerodactyl, which means I can't set up Tailwind without losing Talonflame. I switch out Talonflame and try to defeat both of them but I fail, then I make the big mistake of using Earthquake with Garchomp to try and defeat Manectric when I know it is holding an Air Balloon as that was said at the beginning of the battle. In the end, I only had Sylveon left against 4 opponents and there were practically no chance of winning. Maybe if I had sent it out on the right side of the field instead of in the middle, but I don't know.
I would probably have won if I had sacrificed Talonflame and used Tailwind on turn 1, sent out Sylveon and used Hyper Voice/Heat Wave/Ice Beam on the following turns, but nothing can be done about that now.
I have a few other Battle Videos saved but most of them are not uploaded (the only other one I have uploaded is my battle against Dana, but I guess it isn't that interesting or important). If anyone wants to see any other battle videos, let me know. Most of them are from battles that was tough to win in one way or another.
THIS I find fascinating, please let us know how this progresses.
Hmmmm, I was wondering if you be able to facilitate my ongoing research on a few different fronts...would you happen to have any replays featuring Pinsir4, vs. Chef Andrei/Cobb, or Artist Azure with Regirock12 in tow?
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Since gradually leafing through the Black & White Battle Subway Records thread (I'm on pg. 29 atm), I have begun to map out what Maison teams I can come up for after my current streak ends. I am kinda deciding between four archetypes, all based on different trainer classes. So, I am sorta informally "opening this up to a vote": if you were to undertake a "Subway vs. Maison" challenge, and you had to choose between four options, would you use a team based on the rosters of:
- the OHKO user Roughnecks (Ganymed/Proteus)
- the Hail team Workers (Roman/Valery)
- the annoyer/stall Policemen (Bobemon/Bobnori)
- the Doubles-oriented Janitors (Eric/Oscar)
?
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bobemon actually has a bit of diversity, but i vote ohko roughnecks
I just got a streak of about 90 wins in singles with a sheer force Landorus lead, but I was so frustrated by the loss (which was based on a complete misprediction on my part) that I failed to record the final battle. My backups were Azumarill and Mega Scizor, and I lost because I stupidly switched a full health Scizor into a half health Togekiss4's arbitrary heat wave. SO frustrating because I could've sacrificed Azumarill and then bullet punched. Oh well, maybe I'll do it over again with different backups and get a better streak.
I noticed there isn't a single nontherian Landorus up there in the first place. I guess I can see why. He's a beast with sheer force and a life orb and all, and he's pretty fast, but he's also relatively frail. Not to mention he shares many of his weaknesses with more popular choices like Dragonite and Gliscor, and you can see why he's not even on the singles boards.
With the proper support though, sheer force Landorus with a life orb is quite good. Just make sure you have a good switch in to take water and ice attacks, duh. I used Azumarill. Suicune or Greninja should work too. If you want a longer streak, don't be like me and use a mega or backup without a substitute. (Walrein4 actually showed up at one point and ohko'd Azumarill, but his luck ended there.)
Also be prepared for Starmie4 because it murders this ground-flying/water duo with ice beam/thunderbolt + hax (assuming your water type isn't greninja).So maybe a speedy third option would do, I don't know. Or even better, anything with sucker punch.
My recommendation for a third is something that can set up! That's what Landorus is missing. That's why I like Scizor, but Mega Kang with Pup works too, I guess. I have yet to use it so I can't speak for it, but just look at the leaderboards, right...
P.s.
No need to put any mention of this undocumented streak in the leaderboard, thanks
I noticed there isn't a single nontherian Landorus up there in the first place. I guess I can see why. He's a beast with sheer force and a life orb and all, and he's pretty fast, but he's also relatively frail. Not to mention he shares many of his weaknesses with more popular choices like Dragonite and Gliscor, and you can see why he's not even on the singles boards.
With the proper support though, sheer force Landorus with a life orb is quite good. Just make sure you have a good switch in to take water and ice attacks, duh. I used Azumarill. Suicune or Greninja should work too. If you want a longer streak, don't be like me and use a mega or backup without a substitute. (Walrein4 actually showed up at one point and ohko'd Azumarill, but his luck ended there.)
Also be prepared for Starmie4 because it murders this ground-flying/water duo with ice beam/thunderbolt + hax (assuming your water type isn't greninja).So maybe a speedy third option would do, I don't know. Or even better, anything with sucker punch.
My recommendation for a third is something that can set up! That's what Landorus is missing. That's why I like Scizor, but Mega Kang with Pup works too, I guess. I have yet to use it so I can't speak for it, but just look at the leaderboards, right...
P.s.
No need to put any mention of this undocumented streak in the leaderboard, thanks
RE: "None of the options are optimal"
I know, that's why I've been digging through the Black & White Battle Subway Records thread a little further (currently at pg.41) and have added a fourth option to the above post...one that plays toward my Triples sensibilities a little more.
Hail team still sounds cool, though; earlier today, I plowed through Basic Triples with Abomasnow2/Cryogonal3/Jynx3/Glaceon3/Froslass3/Mamoswine2. Getting to inflict freeze hax numerous times on the Maison is always a nice feeling (particularly when it keeps happening to poor Magneton). Rhydon1 remains a nuisance.
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At 500 wins now, Battles #491-500 were played through with the latest addition to The Bench:
BM559 (Charizard) (Lvl.53) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 170 Atk/170 SAtk/170 Spd
IVs: 31/31/xx/31/xx/31
Naïve Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
Imperfect Charizard3, with a slight boost to Speed in order to better utilize the Scarf. Though Heat Wave is the main draw here, as a backup he actually tends to replace the fallen Talonflame and serve as an Air Slash sniper from the left. Occasionally, he will use Crunch to remove Sturdy & bust Focus Sashes, or to finish off potential Trick Room setters/abusers.
Battle #500: vs. Teppei (Swampert3/Charizard3/Blaziken4/Chesnaught4/Empoleon2/Delphox3)--Coincidentally, this same set is thrown right back at me as the center lead. A couple of tense Turns (as is always the case with starter Breeders), but the landmark is reached in relatively straightforward fashion.
7Z6G-WWWW-WW47-PYUL
Onward, then.
I know, that's why I've been digging through the Black & White Battle Subway Records thread a little further (currently at pg.41) and have added a fourth option to the above post...one that plays toward my Triples sensibilities a little more.
Hail team still sounds cool, though; earlier today, I plowed through Basic Triples with Abomasnow2/Cryogonal3/Jynx3/Glaceon3/Froslass3/Mamoswine2. Getting to inflict freeze hax numerous times on the Maison is always a nice feeling (particularly when it keeps happening to poor Magneton). Rhydon1 remains a nuisance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 500 wins now, Battles #491-500 were played through with the latest addition to The Bench:
BM559 (Charizard) (Lvl.53) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 170 Atk/170 SAtk/170 Spd
IVs: 31/31/xx/31/xx/31
Naïve Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
Imperfect Charizard3, with a slight boost to Speed in order to better utilize the Scarf. Though Heat Wave is the main draw here, as a backup he actually tends to replace the fallen Talonflame and serve as an Air Slash sniper from the left. Occasionally, he will use Crunch to remove Sturdy & bust Focus Sashes, or to finish off potential Trick Room setters/abusers.
Battle #500: vs. Teppei (Swampert3/Charizard3/Blaziken4/Chesnaught4/Empoleon2/Delphox3)--Coincidentally, this same set is thrown right back at me as the center lead. A couple of tense Turns (as is always the case with starter Breeders), but the landmark is reached in relatively straightforward fashion.
7Z6G-WWWW-WW47-PYUL
Onward, then.