So, to answer your question(s), I actually tried Gliscor in a Singles team which I built as a "Gen V Kangliscune" : Cloyster / Gliscor / Suicune. For the record, Suicune was the same as Jumpman's ( icy wind variant), Cloyster was the same as Peterko's (Naughty nature with surf) and Gliscor was Jolly with near max speed (I felt speed was the superior choice over special bulk because moving first means you can sub before the opponent has a chance to crit). It worked... okay I guess. My best was a 407 streak which was ended by a Backpacker of all things (Set1 pokes) with Froslass1 (Hail / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt / Ominous Wind) getting two stats boosts in a row with Ominous wind after surviving +2 spear and then sweeping my team (the lead Forretress had conveniently set Stealth rock + spikes, making the OHKO on Suicune possible). Anyway, even some hax happened, it showcased this team's problems with fast special attackers ; All froslass sets are annoying because Suicune doesn't have Sub and Shadow ball crits/Sdef drops hurt, Starmie4 is an asshole with BoltBeam + King's rock, Gengar can poison/paralyze Cloyster and is not really Suicune's best friend, and Tornadus is dangerous as well thanks to Hurricane being a lovely move in the AI's hands (120BP + 30% confusion chance).
This points to a larger...er, point I have noticed about the Subway, looking back through that thread and what were pointed out as threats. It goes beyond, "the Subway had a larger threat list due to using a larger variety of sets"; I would argue that certain trainer classes were built (intentionally or inadvertently) to make certain sets more dangerous than they are on their own/actually are, due either to appearing on certain themed trainer classes (and thus having better synergy with their teammates), or appearing more frequently due to being in the roster pools of more trainer classes. As a result, the community may have overrated some sets' threat levels at the time, and these have been subsequently exposed as less threatening on their own merits.
In the above instance, how much of that was Froslass1 being a dangerous set on its own (after a couple of boosts), how much of that was Froslass1 being paired with a teammate that it would never be teamed with in the Maison (and having a couple of boosts), and how much of that was the inherent surprise of Set 1 trainers popping up so deep into a streak? Was it the set, or the trainer class and what it has access to? How much of these special attackers' threat level is tied to the trainer classes who tend to pile on said attackers in the Subway (other than Tornadus, who admittedly has a very narrow number of trainers it can be used by), and how much of that is said attackers actually being a pain to deal with (note that, of these, only Starmie4 has been regularly noted as a problem set in the Maison, at least in this thread).
While I have pointed this out earlier with Pinsir4, and I also feel this with regards to most of the Subway's Steel-types and Set 3s (due to fewer trainers specializing in them in the Maison), one of the biggest losers in this respect may have been:
#1 worst mother fucker in the Subway
Froslass "FU"
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
EV spread: 0-0-0-255-0-255
Lv.50: 145-90-90-132-90-178
Moves:
~ Blizzard
~ Icy Wind
~ Shadow Ball
~ Destiny Bond
So, I had a break from Battle Subway for 3 days because it made me so pissed that I was overreacting after each loss...I was kind of lucky that my internet was down for a few hours because I wanted to post a ridiculous battle log back then but my anger faded away after a while... (it was about a 1% miss followed by a signal beam confusion + 2x hurt itself and finished by a showdown 1on1 drifblim CH shadowball vs darm to kill me)
I´m stupid and today I played again. I slapped a Cloyster (sash/smash) + Infernape (LO,FO,mach,OH) lead together, with Latios & Scizor as backup. It worked surprisingly well and I was thinking to myself, nice to have a team that is not weak to Ice (3 resists, 1 weak)...
#68 vs Psychic Boldbat: Chandelure, Golurk, Medicham, Froslass
1. Ape Overrheat Golurk, 75%, Cloyster Rock Blast, 5th hit CH, Chande fainted, Golurk Hammer Arm, Cloyster 38/126.
- foe Medicham
2. Cloy out, switch in Scizor, Ape Overheat, Golurk fainted, Medicham Psycho Cut, Ape fainted.
- me Latios, foe Froslass
3. Scizor Bullet Punch, Lass Focus Sash, Lass Blizzard, Latios at 52/156, Latios frozen solid (obviously targeting Lass), Medicham HJK, Scizor fainted.
- me Cloy
4. Latios frozen solid, Lass Blizzard, Latios fainted, Cloy 12/126, Medicham HJK, Cloy fainted.
0-2
Here, I´m countered like crazy...I mean I can´t Shell Smash nor Fake Out, also can´t OH Chande because of potential Flash Fire and Rock Blast doesn´t OHKO chande without a CH (the 5th hit CHing happened in the last encounter, as well)...Chande would Heat Wave and Golurk attacked Cloy, too...
"In hindsight", adamant LO medicham FO does 24-29 to Cloyster and it was at 38, so the switch turn 2 was stupid as it does 125-150 damage to Medicham with Icicle Spear (sure OHKO after LO)...it would´ve been 3-1...I suck
doesn´t change the fact that I still hate Froslass 4 with a passion, because:
- can´t be OHKO´d by normal means thanks to Focus Sash
- lol 178 speed, ties with Latios
- Blizzard always hits you
- Blizzard often freezes you
- Blizzard often CHs you
- it will avoid up to 3 attacks thanks to Snow Cloak
- it won´t have to avoid more because you´re a goner by the time you miss 3 times no matter what team you use
- hi I will Destiny Bond on the turn I avoid your attack and be "safe" from Bullet Punch next turn and free to freeze you...
This thing by itself has cost me so many streaks, way too many...
I´m done with the Subway...[size=-2]at least for a couple of days[/size]
Having 0 Spooky Manor visits both yesterday and today doesn´t help my cause, either, as I would like to use some of the Pokémon in there...it´ll take like 3 months for me to get them
Without the benefit of having Ice Workers around (which have more concentrated rosters and have a higher probability of having Abomasnow appear), being part of the roster pools of Maison Hail specialists (who seem to pop up less frequently for whatever reason), and being part of rosters where it doesn't sync with its teammates as well (Psychics/Hex Manaics, which feature some speedy attackers but tend to lean more toward bulky 'mons, and goodstuffs trainers where it could team with any number of incompatible partners) makes this not-so-much-the-worst now. With that said...
have you ever tried using that set? i think you could theroeticly learn a thing or two using it a few times, see how the AI handles it due to it murders all human players, who nos it could be amazing vs the AI haaaaa (seriously doubt it mind). I think that if you tried using it and learnt its weaknesses/strengths through using it you could learn a thing or two.
keep your friends close but your enermies even closer kinda thing;)
I have taken this philosophy to heart and am always trying to incorporate such sets into my teams, as a way to try and judge the overall, objective threat level of an individual set. The Subway may have been a very skewed way of making such assessments, looking back...fortunately, the Maison system makes it much easier to isolate individual sets and make such assessments "in a vacuum". (Case in point, Wailord4 remains roughly as threatening now as it did back then, which is "merely annoying, but a bitch to actually take down without Grass Knot").
Of course, the Maison giving its roster access to Hidden Abilities may have changed the dynamics to enough of a degree that that last point may be rendered moot.
EDIT: Somewhat relevant side note, I enjoyed peter's rant sufficiently enough that I have created a Cursed Body Replica Froslass4 in tribute. Now, I can assess how dangerous it still is by trying to build my own teams around her:
- does she still fit in Hail teams about the same, without the benefit of Snow Cloak? Do these have to be more nuanced (as in standard competitive Hail teams, or MonoIce teams), or can I still use Maison Hail teams and make her work?
- How much does having Cursed Body change things up for her in non-Hail teams? It obviously gives her a little luck-based boost, but can she work at all outside of the snow in a Maison team, or is she just filler/dead weight?
- How much does the addition of Triples/Rotations formats, as well as the subtraction of the Wi-Fi train, change her threat level, both as a Maison opponent and a potential team member?
