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Battle Maison Discussion & Records
- Thread starter NoCheese
- Start date
It works on your side as well in Multis. I can't tell you how many times I've partnered with an AI that had WoW and he burned my MMawile for no goddamn reason.
yes it is possible to use a mega each, which is really nice.
I had a weezing use wow on its partner, a flash fire ninetails, in the super doubles.
That's nothing new though, I remember the AI doing that at least last gen (and I think in Gen IV multis, too).
Yeah but I recall a mon (can't remember which) using Will O Wisp on its Landorus partner for no reason. No Lum Berry, Natural Cure, or Synchronize.
If they're all running max speed, no. MKanga's speed is 100, while the genies' are 101. Also, her Landorus has a Choice Scarf anyway, so nope.
Hey guys, I'm new to the Smogon threads so bare with me in case I do something that would be considered stupid here. Anyways, I have a team I hatched up for the Super Doubles in the Battle Maison, but I am asking for tips on how to improve.
Greninja @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Naive/ Protean
252 Spe/ 252 SpA / 4 HP
- Dark Pulse/ Ice Beam
- Surf
- Protect
- Mat Block
Exploud @ Life Orb/Silk Scarf
Modest/ Scrappy
252 HP/ 252 SpA / 4 Def
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball/Ice Beam
- Protect
Musharna @ Sitrus Berry
Sassy/ Telepathy
252 HP/ 252 SpD / 4 Def
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand
- Moonlight
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Naive/ Sand Veil
252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Protect
So the strategy. Have Greninja use Mat Block, then Boomburst by Exploud. From there, use Protect back and forth, blocking Boomburst and Surf respectively. Protect should also be used by Greninja if you're facing things that can ruin Mat Black, like Fake-Out Users and Pokes faster then Greninja. Other attacks for coverage. You can also switch for Musharna who can slow things down with Thunder Wave, stall with moonlight, Boost moves with Helping Hand, attack with psychic, and then avoid all spread moves with Telepathy. And Garchomp...what else can I say? Works wonders with Musharna, and wrecks things
Anyways, like I said, I'm looking for tips on how to improve. I got confused haxed to death by a bulky Vespiquen when I first had shadow sneak on Greninja (Streak was 27) and then got COMPLETELY destroyed by an Choice Scarf Garchomp with Outrage and a Head Smash Archeops (Streak was 23).
Greninja @ Lum Berry/Focus Sash
Naive/ Protean
252 Spe/ 252 SpA / 4 HP
- Dark Pulse/ Ice Beam
- Surf
- Protect
- Mat Block
Exploud @ Life Orb/Silk Scarf
Modest/ Scrappy
252 HP/ 252 SpA / 4 Def
- Boomburst
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball/Ice Beam
- Protect
Musharna @ Sitrus Berry
Sassy/ Telepathy
252 HP/ 252 SpD / 4 Def
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand
- Moonlight
Garchomp @ Garchompite
Naive/ Sand Veil
252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Protect
So the strategy. Have Greninja use Mat Block, then Boomburst by Exploud. From there, use Protect back and forth, blocking Boomburst and Surf respectively. Protect should also be used by Greninja if you're facing things that can ruin Mat Black, like Fake-Out Users and Pokes faster then Greninja. Other attacks for coverage. You can also switch for Musharna who can slow things down with Thunder Wave, stall with moonlight, Boost moves with Helping Hand, attack with psychic, and then avoid all spread moves with Telepathy. And Garchomp...what else can I say? Works wonders with Musharna, and wrecks things
Anyways, like I said, I'm looking for tips on how to improve. I got confused haxed to death by a bulky Vespiquen when I first had shadow sneak on Greninja (Streak was 27) and then got COMPLETELY destroyed by an Choice Scarf Garchomp with Outrage and a Head Smash Archeops (Streak was 23).
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Thank you for your highly instructive post...
If anyone knows anything about the EV spreads beyond the obvious, I would be interested in hearing about it.
The Tornadus set she uses doesn't run max speed, but Thundurus, assuming the EV spread was unchanged, should be running max speed. Landorus, as mentioned, is scarfed and will outspeed.
I've managed to figure out how to manipulate the 3DS settings to get different AI Multi Battle partners. So far I've gotten the following:
[Anguilla, 1/1, Male] Tornadus (Defiant) + Infernape (LO, Iron Fist)
[Anguilla, 1/1, Female] Thundurus (Prankster) + Infernape (LO, Blaze)
[Montserrat, 1/1, Male] Latios (Specs) + Infernape (LO, Iron Fist)
[Montserrat, 1/1, Female] Latias (Specs) + Infernape (LO, Blaze)
[23:57:14] <~Stellar> 1st pokemon slot seems to be based on country
[23:57:43] <~Stellar> 1st slot swaps between two pokemon based on gender of your mii
[23:57:53] <~Stellar> e.g. latios/latias thundurus/tornadus
[23:58:04] <~Stellar> and the abilities of the pokemon swap between 2 based on your mii's gender
[23:58:17] <~Stellar> e.g. male = iron fist, female = blaze
I also think the combinations are specific to a certain 3DS. For example, 1/1 + Montserrat on mine will yield Lati@s + Infernape, but it will not on another 3DS.
[Anguilla, 1/1, Male] Tornadus (Defiant) + Infernape (LO, Iron Fist)
[Anguilla, 1/1, Female] Thundurus (Prankster) + Infernape (LO, Blaze)
[Montserrat, 1/1, Male] Latios (Specs) + Infernape (LO, Iron Fist)
[Montserrat, 1/1, Female] Latias (Specs) + Infernape (LO, Blaze)
[23:57:14] <~Stellar> 1st pokemon slot seems to be based on country
[23:57:43] <~Stellar> 1st slot swaps between two pokemon based on gender of your mii
[23:57:53] <~Stellar> e.g. latios/latias thundurus/tornadus
[23:58:04] <~Stellar> and the abilities of the pokemon swap between 2 based on your mii's gender
[23:58:17] <~Stellar> e.g. male = iron fist, female = blaze
I also think the combinations are specific to a certain 3DS. For example, 1/1 + Montserrat on mine will yield Lati@s + Infernape, but it will not on another 3DS.
JHXW-WWWW-WWW3-E6UG
Super Singles. Lost on battle 109 due to TR Bronzong lead. I wonder if changing to Megazard Y would have allowed it to survive the Rock Slide.
Cloyster @ Sash
Adamant Skill Link 6HP/252atk/252spe
Icicle Spear/Rock Blast/Razor Shell/Shell Smash
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Timid Solar Power 6HP/252spatk/252spe
Flamethrower/Solar Beam/Air Slash/Dragon Pulse
Garchomp @ Lum
Jolly Rough skin 6HP/252Atk/252Spe
Outrage/EQ/Iron Head/SD
I'm not sure on Zard's Air Slash or Garchomp's Iron Head.
Super Singles. Lost on battle 109 due to TR Bronzong lead. I wonder if changing to Megazard Y would have allowed it to survive the Rock Slide.
Cloyster @ Sash
Adamant Skill Link 6HP/252atk/252spe
Icicle Spear/Rock Blast/Razor Shell/Shell Smash
Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Timid Solar Power 6HP/252spatk/252spe
Flamethrower/Solar Beam/Air Slash/Dragon Pulse
Garchomp @ Lum
Jolly Rough skin 6HP/252Atk/252Spe
Outrage/EQ/Iron Head/SD
I'm not sure on Zard's Air Slash or Garchomp's Iron Head.
Let's get me on that list!
My PB is 171 in the Super Singles line. Proof:
JMFW-WWWW-WWW2-F48L
F*ck you Cobalion and everything you stand for!
I probably could have won this if I had recognized the possibility of this set screwing me over.
Guys, keep that list on hand at all times, or you WILL get bopped like I did.
Mega Kangaskhan, adamant
max atk/HP (I think)
fake out/return/power-up punch/sucker punch
Rotom-W, modest
sitrus berry
max HP, 116 SpA, 140 SpD*
hydro miss/will-o-miss/thunderbolt/light screen
Aegislash, brave
weakness policy
Max HP/attack
king's shield/shadow claw/shadow sneak/iron head
The Choice Band Tyrantrum with Head Smash (p sure it's adamant with max attack and speed) scares the crap out of me, it does nearly half to Aegislash of all things!
If you guys want to use this team for yourself, I made some changes since: I suggest that you run 133 speed on Mega Mom to outrun that jerk Togekiss. Max the attack and put the rest in HP. Everything else can stay how it is I guess.
My PB is 171 in the Super Singles line. Proof:
JMFW-WWWW-WWW2-F48L
F*ck you Cobalion and everything you stand for!
I probably could have won this if I had recognized the possibility of this set screwing me over.
Guys, keep that list on hand at all times, or you WILL get bopped like I did.
Mega Kangaskhan, adamant
max atk/HP (I think)
fake out/return/power-up punch/sucker punch
Rotom-W, modest
sitrus berry
max HP, 116 SpA, 140 SpD*
hydro miss/will-o-miss/thunderbolt/light screen
Aegislash, brave
weakness policy
Max HP/attack
king's shield/shadow claw/shadow sneak/iron head
The Choice Band Tyrantrum with Head Smash (p sure it's adamant with max attack and speed) scares the crap out of me, it does nearly half to Aegislash of all things!
If you guys want to use this team for yourself, I made some changes since: I suggest that you run 133 speed on Mega Mom to outrun that jerk Togekiss. Max the attack and put the rest in HP. Everything else can stay how it is I guess.
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As mentioned in my 700th post, I hit 1000 wins in Triple Maison, here's the write up in follow up. I got a bit sidetracked, so this got put off for a bit until now:
Team:
Greninja (M) @ Life Orb ***Samidare
Trait: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Mat Block
Life Orb Greninja. Mat Block Support, High-Speed Offense. Leads on the Left. Yes, I know that its Nature isn't optimal for what I am trying to do, and that a Timid nature would work a bit better, but this still gets the job done. It's role is pretty self explanatory. Open battles with Mat Block, then go on the offense. Holding a Life Orb in combination with the automatic STAB gained from Protean allows Greninja to dish out respectable amounts of damage, often netting an OHKO when hitting opponents on their weaknesses, eg OHKOing the usual Latios (except Latios 1). Although Mat Block only blocks damaging moves and has no boost in Priority, Greninja is usually fast enough to pull off Mat Block for the team before the opponents can move, and the opponent Pokemon will very likely go for damaging moves due to the presence of...
Lv 1 Aron (M) @ Berry Juice ***Aron Zheng
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: Champions don't need to train, they just need to win
Rash Nature
- Endeavor
- Protect
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk
Lv 1 Endeavor Abuse Aron. AI Abuse. Leads front and center. The moment I was told that the Battle Maison does not scale levels up to 50 if underlevelled was the moment I decided I would try to revive my old 4th gen AI Abusive strategy. The idea here is that Aron is KO'd by any non-Poison damaging attack, and thus triggers the AI's tendency to drop any thoughts of support or setup to go in straight for the KO that they see in front of them. However, due to Sturdy and Berry Juice, that "KOable" target will actually takes 3 hits to go down. Factor in Mat Block and Protect, and this Aron will often command the attention of the opponent's pokemon for at least a good 3 or 4 turns, and by that point I'll have a comanding lead.
Aron's moveset is pretty basic if you are familiar with L1 Endeavor strategies. Its survivability is all in its item and ability, and its damage output is in Endeavor, which will reduce the opponent's HP down to Aron's current HP of 12. Toxic is used for targetting Ghosts, and to finish off crippled Pokemon. My last move is Sleep Talk, in case Aron ever gets put to sleep, but honestly I've never gotten to successfully use it. The one time Aron got put to sleep, it woke up immediately causing Sleep Talk to fail.
Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash ***SHARK ATTACK
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Focus Sash Swords Dance Garchomp. Leads on the Right. A simple moveset. Greninja and Aron were originally used as a lead pair in Double Maison before I tried it out in Triples. It didn't take me any time at all to decide that I wanted to run Garchomp as my 3rd lead. Mat Block extends across your entire party, regardless of where Greninja is placed on the floor. With Greninja's Mat Block protection and Aron presence as a distraction, Garchomp is almost always able to get off a free Swords Dance boost at the start of the battle. A +2 Atk Garchomp with an active Focus Sash makes quick work of its side of the field while the opponent scrambles to take down Aron. In situations where all the opponent's Pokemon are wiped out, and they only have one Pokemon remaining, they will always send it out on my right, and thus facing against my +2 Atk Garchomp.
Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf ***Nabata
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Weather Changer. Tyranitar makes a pretty good partner to Aron and Garchomp on the team. Hail can be very hazardous to my leads, as it neutralizes both Sturdy and Focus Sash if left unchecked. Tyranitar can get rid of the Hail, and in turn hit hard against those that set it up. Although it isn't the fastest thing on the board, Choice Scarf Tyranitar's speed is still decent enough to deal with a lot of threats. The boost in Special Defense from the sand also makes it pretty easy to switch it in on Special Attacks, even if they are super effective ones. The only times I've used Iron Tail is during times when I know that I've won, and using Iron Tail will potentially allow me to win a turn faster.
Gyarados (F) @ Choice Band ***HaiteiRaoyue
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 164 HP / 196 Atk / 4 Def / 76 SDef / 68 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Return
Choice Band Gyarados. Intimidate Support. Switch Option. Since Gyarados is immune to Garchomp's Earthquake, and resists Greninja's Surf... it makes it something that Aron can switch out to, without causing me to lose one of my own Pokemon in the crossfire. This is the only Pokemon on the team with a non 252/252 EV spread, although there isn't anything particularly special about its EVs. It's pretty much a copy of the EV spread I was using for the CB Gyarados I was using in VGC battles post Worlds 2013. Return as the 4th move since I wanted a strong reliable neutral move to use against Pokemon that resist Waterfall, namely Grass and Water Types.
Aegislash (F) @ Spell Tag ***Hakurouken
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
An Aegislash. Priority Attacker. Switch Option. I would say that Aegislash is a bit of a filler Pokemon for this team, though it does have its specific role. Due to having high defenses before a Stance Change, it can survive a few hits even in situations where I have to make a tough switch. Its immunity to fighting also helps act as a Switch option for Tyranitar, and in some cases Greninja and Aron as well. Aegislash is my only Pokemon with Priority attacks, so it is one of the few Pokemon I can use to act before some of the faster Pokemon in the Battle Maison that can give me some trouble, such as Jolteon and Manectric 4.
Overall:
This Triple Battle Maison strategy is all about having control over the opponent AI, and having them do what you want/expect them to. While I'd like to say that the team has a lot of fallback plans and stuff, it really actually does not. After all, I managed 1000 Wins on my first run in Triple Battle Maison, so I haven't done much thinking on replacement team members or refining of team members yet. Losing the advantage provided by Greninja's Mat Block, and Aron's pseudo taunt and redirection can cause things to spiral out of control without some quick thinking, and possibly a few risky moves on my part to keep myself in the game.
Strategy:
The team's basic strategy is as follows:
Turn 1:
Greninja uses Mat Block
Aron uses Endeavor
Garchomp uses Swords Dance
followed by:
Turn 2:
Aron uses Protect
Greninja and Garchomp Attack, KOing all 3 opponent leads (usually, Surf + Earthquake)
Or...
Alternate Turn 2:
Greninja KOs a Pokemon with Grass Knot/Ice Beam
Garchomp KOs a Pokemon with Dragon Claw
Aron uses Endeavor to drop the 3rd Pokemon to 12 HP
The alternative strategy leaves you at 6-4, with one of the opponent's Pokemon in easy KO range, but since Aron doesn't use Protect for this, it keeps your options open for the following turn.
Usually after pulling off a successful first few turns, and gaining a 6-4 or 6-3 lead, it is very difficult for the CPU opponents to pull a comeback, of which it is a matter of taking out the opponent's remaining Pokemon in a low risk fashion.
Threats:
A very quick way you can lose is by getting caught off guard on Turn 1, causing the regular setup to turn into a disaster. Nothing like losing Greninja to Manectric 4, because you thought you would be faster. And in turn, leaving Garchomp and Aron exposed. It's not that big of a stretch for the opponent to happen to have a Pokemon with Blizzard such as Froslass 4 or Cryogonal 4. Similarly, it would be foolish to try to use Mat Block when all three opponent leads are packing priority moves.
Threats to Greninja:
Pokemon faster than Greninja and can KO it (placed on Center, or Left):
Namely Jolteon, Electrode, Manectric 4 (scarf), Darmanitan 4 (scarf), Aerodactyl 4 (CB), Choice Scarf Terrakion, Accelgor, Pinsir 4 (scarf)
While these Pokemon are able to KO Greninja, they'll have to decide between attacking Aron and Greninja, so it isn't always a guarantee that Greninja will be taken out. As such, it is always important to weigh in the options, and decide whether it is worth risking sacrificing Greninja on the first turn or not.
Quick Claw - Specifically Leafeon 4, and Ursaring 4. Assess the situation to make sure you'll be fine even if Greninja is taken out by a Quick Claw'd attack.
Threats to Aron:
Priority Users - There's a fairly large number of Pokemon with Priority moves. From the 4th set, they include: Arcanine, Dragonite, Abomasnow, Hariyama, Lucario, Carracosta, Muk, Scizor, Conkeldurr Dusknoir, Spiritomb*, Bisharp* Toxicroak*, Shiftry*, Honchkrow*, Kangaskhan', Ludicolo', Infernape', Medicham', Mienshao'
* These Pokemon only have Sucker Punch. While they use it more often than they did in the past, they don't fully commit to trying to use it against you, opting to only attack with Sucker Punch on Occasion
' These Pokemon have Fake Out. Stragely enough, dispite it being able to OHKO Aron, and only usable on turn 1... they DON'T always use Fake Out. In fact, they are more likely to use a regular damaging move instead of Fake Out for a turn.
Don't be afraid to use Mat Block even if there is one priority user in play on the opponent's side. A number of the Pokemon may instead use something like Earthquake instead of their priority move, and a similar situation had caused me to lose a battle in Double Maison. It's better to just let Aron take a hit, in order to preserve Greninja and Garchomp's health from various spread moves, or things like Lucario deciding to want to KO Greninja with Aura Sphere instead of Aron with Extreme Speed. Usually, if the opponent has two priority users, or two Pokemon faster than Greninja, I'll use Protect with Aron on the first turn.
Mold Breaker - For obvious reasons. Since Mold Breaker is an announced ability, try to prioiritize in KOing them, and not letting Aron have all three of its "lives" taken out in one blow.
Pokemon that will not try to attack Aron on Turn 1 - For whatever reason, there are some Pokemon that will decide to instead use set up moves, or even use Protect instead of attacking at Aron. Some of the 4th set mons in this category include:
Feraligatr, Haxorus, Volcarona - These Pokemon will use Dragon Dance or Quiver Dance respectively. Feraligatr can be OHKO'd by Grass Knot. Using Endeavor on it will activate a Liechi berry and possibly Torrent, so that is unadvised. Haxorus can be KO'd by Dragon Claw, but not Ice Beam due to Yache Berry. Volcarona will still be slower than Greninja even after a Quiver Dance.
Meganium, Venusaur - These two Pokemon have no damaging attacks that can harm Aron, so there is a high chance that they will use Protect on the first turn. As such, avoid using Endeavor on them on the first turn. There is also a Cresselia that has Toxic which is also unable to harm Aron.
Tentacruel, Cradily, Shuckle, Roserade, Mismagius, Eelektross - Theses Pokemon do have damaging attacks against Aron, but still may try to use Protect instead.
Victreebel - This Pokemon will use Solar Beam
Rough Skin/Iron Barbs - Just Druddigon, Ferrothorn, and Garchomp. This is just to make a point of awareness, as it will disable Sturdy if you activate these abilties.
Multiple Ghosts - Aron isn't going to do much if it can't hit anything. This sort of situation will likely happen against Hex Maniacs or Psychic, as they run a heavy amount of Ghost and Psychic type Pokemon. In these cases, it's best to just switch out to Tyranitar, while still using Mat Block of course.
Snow Warning - Either Abomasnow, or Aurorus will be what you are looking for. When Snow Warning occurs, it is best to switch either Aron or Garchomp out for Tyranitar immediately, in order to preserve Aron's Sturdy and Garchomp's Focus Sash.
Threats to Garchomp
Froslass, Cryogonal, and Weavile - They are faster than Garchomp, and can do a ton of damage with Blizzard or Ice Punch, respectively. Weavile is especially a problem since it is also faster than Greninja, so you can't stop it with Mat Block. Cryogonal can be OHKO'd by a Dragon Claw, but Froslass and Weavile run Focus Sash. If Froslass or Weavile are placed on the far right, it's better to just switch out to Tyranitar.
Starmie (far right) - Starmie is similar to the previously mentioned Ice Pokemon. The difference is that if Starmie is in the center, it can be OHKO'd by a Grass Knot.
Togekiss (far right) - Garchomp can't hit Togekiss. Enough said.
Mass Intimidate - In some cases, its better to just switch out Garchomp instead of trying to counteract a large amount of Intimidates.
Bastiodon 4 - This thing has Wide Guard, and isn't afraid to use it at times, even with Aron's presence. After a close call where Bastiodon's Wide Guard nearly costed me the battle, I've learned that they are a high priority target to be taken out. Garchomp doesn't really do very much to it with just Dragon Claw
Trainers to watch out for:
Scientists/Roller Skaters:
These two trainer classes are the most likely ones to come with Pokemon that are faster than Greninja. Fortunately, beyond that, their Pokemon tend to be easily handled by Garchomp, due to having a fairly large bias towards Electric type Pokemon. So while you may have to do a bit of maneuvering at the beginning, it will often be smooth sailing once you get past that.
Veterans:
Even with this sort of team set up, the Legendary Pokemon teams of Veterans are something to watch out for. The biggest issue when facing them is that all their Pokemon may be running one of four different movesets. In particular, watch out for Choice Scarf on Entei or Terrakion.
Punk Guy Puck:
He only runs Pokemon that can have Intimidate. This can sometimes create situations where Garchomp is lagging behind on offensive pressure, which can give the opponent an opportunity to try to do something. Plan accordingly.
Conclusion:
1000 Wins in one run. 1000 Wins with my only run. After losing records in the 900s range at least once a generation since 3rd Gen, it's great to finally have something with 4 digits. As stated earlier, the team isn't even fully optimized yet. Feel free to try out other combinations of Pokemon with Greninja, Aron, Garchomp as the leads. Since I'm sure that I haven't made a perfect craft on first try.
Battle Video IDs:
319: JMVG-WWWW-WWW2-M34J
535: 95LW-WWWW-WWW3-37H7
1000: NTPG-WWWW-WWW2-ULK3
Thanks for reading.
Team:
Greninja (M) @ Life Orb ***Samidare
Trait: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Mat Block
Life Orb Greninja. Mat Block Support, High-Speed Offense. Leads on the Left. Yes, I know that its Nature isn't optimal for what I am trying to do, and that a Timid nature would work a bit better, but this still gets the job done. It's role is pretty self explanatory. Open battles with Mat Block, then go on the offense. Holding a Life Orb in combination with the automatic STAB gained from Protean allows Greninja to dish out respectable amounts of damage, often netting an OHKO when hitting opponents on their weaknesses, eg OHKOing the usual Latios (except Latios 1). Although Mat Block only blocks damaging moves and has no boost in Priority, Greninja is usually fast enough to pull off Mat Block for the team before the opponents can move, and the opponent Pokemon will very likely go for damaging moves due to the presence of...
Lv 1 Aron (M) @ Berry Juice ***Aron Zheng
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: Champions don't need to train, they just need to win
Rash Nature
- Endeavor
- Protect
- Toxic
- Sleep Talk
Lv 1 Endeavor Abuse Aron. AI Abuse. Leads front and center. The moment I was told that the Battle Maison does not scale levels up to 50 if underlevelled was the moment I decided I would try to revive my old 4th gen AI Abusive strategy. The idea here is that Aron is KO'd by any non-Poison damaging attack, and thus triggers the AI's tendency to drop any thoughts of support or setup to go in straight for the KO that they see in front of them. However, due to Sturdy and Berry Juice, that "KOable" target will actually takes 3 hits to go down. Factor in Mat Block and Protect, and this Aron will often command the attention of the opponent's pokemon for at least a good 3 or 4 turns, and by that point I'll have a comanding lead.
Aron's moveset is pretty basic if you are familiar with L1 Endeavor strategies. Its survivability is all in its item and ability, and its damage output is in Endeavor, which will reduce the opponent's HP down to Aron's current HP of 12. Toxic is used for targetting Ghosts, and to finish off crippled Pokemon. My last move is Sleep Talk, in case Aron ever gets put to sleep, but honestly I've never gotten to successfully use it. The one time Aron got put to sleep, it woke up immediately causing Sleep Talk to fail.
Garchomp (F) @ Focus Sash ***SHARK ATTACK
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Swords Dance
- Protect
Focus Sash Swords Dance Garchomp. Leads on the Right. A simple moveset. Greninja and Aron were originally used as a lead pair in Double Maison before I tried it out in Triples. It didn't take me any time at all to decide that I wanted to run Garchomp as my 3rd lead. Mat Block extends across your entire party, regardless of where Greninja is placed on the floor. With Greninja's Mat Block protection and Aron presence as a distraction, Garchomp is almost always able to get off a free Swords Dance boost at the start of the battle. A +2 Atk Garchomp with an active Focus Sash makes quick work of its side of the field while the opponent scrambles to take down Aron. In situations where all the opponent's Pokemon are wiped out, and they only have one Pokemon remaining, they will always send it out on my right, and thus facing against my +2 Atk Garchomp.
Tyranitar (F) @ Choice Scarf ***Nabata
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP / 244 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Iron Tail
Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Weather Changer. Tyranitar makes a pretty good partner to Aron and Garchomp on the team. Hail can be very hazardous to my leads, as it neutralizes both Sturdy and Focus Sash if left unchecked. Tyranitar can get rid of the Hail, and in turn hit hard against those that set it up. Although it isn't the fastest thing on the board, Choice Scarf Tyranitar's speed is still decent enough to deal with a lot of threats. The boost in Special Defense from the sand also makes it pretty easy to switch it in on Special Attacks, even if they are super effective ones. The only times I've used Iron Tail is during times when I know that I've won, and using Iron Tail will potentially allow me to win a turn faster.
Gyarados (F) @ Choice Band ***HaiteiRaoyue
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 164 HP / 196 Atk / 4 Def / 76 SDef / 68 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Return
Choice Band Gyarados. Intimidate Support. Switch Option. Since Gyarados is immune to Garchomp's Earthquake, and resists Greninja's Surf... it makes it something that Aron can switch out to, without causing me to lose one of my own Pokemon in the crossfire. This is the only Pokemon on the team with a non 252/252 EV spread, although there isn't anything particularly special about its EVs. It's pretty much a copy of the EV spread I was using for the CB Gyarados I was using in VGC battles post Worlds 2013. Return as the 4th move since I wanted a strong reliable neutral move to use against Pokemon that resist Waterfall, namely Grass and Water Types.
Aegislash (F) @ Spell Tag ***Hakurouken
Trait: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Iron Head
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance
An Aegislash. Priority Attacker. Switch Option. I would say that Aegislash is a bit of a filler Pokemon for this team, though it does have its specific role. Due to having high defenses before a Stance Change, it can survive a few hits even in situations where I have to make a tough switch. Its immunity to fighting also helps act as a Switch option for Tyranitar, and in some cases Greninja and Aron as well. Aegislash is my only Pokemon with Priority attacks, so it is one of the few Pokemon I can use to act before some of the faster Pokemon in the Battle Maison that can give me some trouble, such as Jolteon and Manectric 4.
Overall:
This Triple Battle Maison strategy is all about having control over the opponent AI, and having them do what you want/expect them to. While I'd like to say that the team has a lot of fallback plans and stuff, it really actually does not. After all, I managed 1000 Wins on my first run in Triple Battle Maison, so I haven't done much thinking on replacement team members or refining of team members yet. Losing the advantage provided by Greninja's Mat Block, and Aron's pseudo taunt and redirection can cause things to spiral out of control without some quick thinking, and possibly a few risky moves on my part to keep myself in the game.
Strategy:
The team's basic strategy is as follows:
Turn 1:
Greninja uses Mat Block
Aron uses Endeavor
Garchomp uses Swords Dance
followed by:
Turn 2:
Aron uses Protect
Greninja and Garchomp Attack, KOing all 3 opponent leads (usually, Surf + Earthquake)
Or...
Alternate Turn 2:
Greninja KOs a Pokemon with Grass Knot/Ice Beam
Garchomp KOs a Pokemon with Dragon Claw
Aron uses Endeavor to drop the 3rd Pokemon to 12 HP
The alternative strategy leaves you at 6-4, with one of the opponent's Pokemon in easy KO range, but since Aron doesn't use Protect for this, it keeps your options open for the following turn.
Usually after pulling off a successful first few turns, and gaining a 6-4 or 6-3 lead, it is very difficult for the CPU opponents to pull a comeback, of which it is a matter of taking out the opponent's remaining Pokemon in a low risk fashion.
Threats:
A very quick way you can lose is by getting caught off guard on Turn 1, causing the regular setup to turn into a disaster. Nothing like losing Greninja to Manectric 4, because you thought you would be faster. And in turn, leaving Garchomp and Aron exposed. It's not that big of a stretch for the opponent to happen to have a Pokemon with Blizzard such as Froslass 4 or Cryogonal 4. Similarly, it would be foolish to try to use Mat Block when all three opponent leads are packing priority moves.
Threats to Greninja:
Pokemon faster than Greninja and can KO it (placed on Center, or Left):
Namely Jolteon, Electrode, Manectric 4 (scarf), Darmanitan 4 (scarf), Aerodactyl 4 (CB), Choice Scarf Terrakion, Accelgor, Pinsir 4 (scarf)
While these Pokemon are able to KO Greninja, they'll have to decide between attacking Aron and Greninja, so it isn't always a guarantee that Greninja will be taken out. As such, it is always important to weigh in the options, and decide whether it is worth risking sacrificing Greninja on the first turn or not.
Quick Claw - Specifically Leafeon 4, and Ursaring 4. Assess the situation to make sure you'll be fine even if Greninja is taken out by a Quick Claw'd attack.
Threats to Aron:
Priority Users - There's a fairly large number of Pokemon with Priority moves. From the 4th set, they include: Arcanine, Dragonite, Abomasnow, Hariyama, Lucario, Carracosta, Muk, Scizor, Conkeldurr Dusknoir, Spiritomb*, Bisharp* Toxicroak*, Shiftry*, Honchkrow*, Kangaskhan', Ludicolo', Infernape', Medicham', Mienshao'
* These Pokemon only have Sucker Punch. While they use it more often than they did in the past, they don't fully commit to trying to use it against you, opting to only attack with Sucker Punch on Occasion
' These Pokemon have Fake Out. Stragely enough, dispite it being able to OHKO Aron, and only usable on turn 1... they DON'T always use Fake Out. In fact, they are more likely to use a regular damaging move instead of Fake Out for a turn.
Don't be afraid to use Mat Block even if there is one priority user in play on the opponent's side. A number of the Pokemon may instead use something like Earthquake instead of their priority move, and a similar situation had caused me to lose a battle in Double Maison. It's better to just let Aron take a hit, in order to preserve Greninja and Garchomp's health from various spread moves, or things like Lucario deciding to want to KO Greninja with Aura Sphere instead of Aron with Extreme Speed. Usually, if the opponent has two priority users, or two Pokemon faster than Greninja, I'll use Protect with Aron on the first turn.
Mold Breaker - For obvious reasons. Since Mold Breaker is an announced ability, try to prioiritize in KOing them, and not letting Aron have all three of its "lives" taken out in one blow.
Pokemon that will not try to attack Aron on Turn 1 - For whatever reason, there are some Pokemon that will decide to instead use set up moves, or even use Protect instead of attacking at Aron. Some of the 4th set mons in this category include:
Feraligatr, Haxorus, Volcarona - These Pokemon will use Dragon Dance or Quiver Dance respectively. Feraligatr can be OHKO'd by Grass Knot. Using Endeavor on it will activate a Liechi berry and possibly Torrent, so that is unadvised. Haxorus can be KO'd by Dragon Claw, but not Ice Beam due to Yache Berry. Volcarona will still be slower than Greninja even after a Quiver Dance.
Meganium, Venusaur - These two Pokemon have no damaging attacks that can harm Aron, so there is a high chance that they will use Protect on the first turn. As such, avoid using Endeavor on them on the first turn. There is also a Cresselia that has Toxic which is also unable to harm Aron.
Tentacruel, Cradily, Shuckle, Roserade, Mismagius, Eelektross - Theses Pokemon do have damaging attacks against Aron, but still may try to use Protect instead.
Victreebel - This Pokemon will use Solar Beam
Rough Skin/Iron Barbs - Just Druddigon, Ferrothorn, and Garchomp. This is just to make a point of awareness, as it will disable Sturdy if you activate these abilties.
Multiple Ghosts - Aron isn't going to do much if it can't hit anything. This sort of situation will likely happen against Hex Maniacs or Psychic, as they run a heavy amount of Ghost and Psychic type Pokemon. In these cases, it's best to just switch out to Tyranitar, while still using Mat Block of course.
Snow Warning - Either Abomasnow, or Aurorus will be what you are looking for. When Snow Warning occurs, it is best to switch either Aron or Garchomp out for Tyranitar immediately, in order to preserve Aron's Sturdy and Garchomp's Focus Sash.
Threats to Garchomp
Froslass, Cryogonal, and Weavile - They are faster than Garchomp, and can do a ton of damage with Blizzard or Ice Punch, respectively. Weavile is especially a problem since it is also faster than Greninja, so you can't stop it with Mat Block. Cryogonal can be OHKO'd by a Dragon Claw, but Froslass and Weavile run Focus Sash. If Froslass or Weavile are placed on the far right, it's better to just switch out to Tyranitar.
Starmie (far right) - Starmie is similar to the previously mentioned Ice Pokemon. The difference is that if Starmie is in the center, it can be OHKO'd by a Grass Knot.
Togekiss (far right) - Garchomp can't hit Togekiss. Enough said.
Mass Intimidate - In some cases, its better to just switch out Garchomp instead of trying to counteract a large amount of Intimidates.
Bastiodon 4 - This thing has Wide Guard, and isn't afraid to use it at times, even with Aron's presence. After a close call where Bastiodon's Wide Guard nearly costed me the battle, I've learned that they are a high priority target to be taken out. Garchomp doesn't really do very much to it with just Dragon Claw
Trainers to watch out for:
Scientists/Roller Skaters:
These two trainer classes are the most likely ones to come with Pokemon that are faster than Greninja. Fortunately, beyond that, their Pokemon tend to be easily handled by Garchomp, due to having a fairly large bias towards Electric type Pokemon. So while you may have to do a bit of maneuvering at the beginning, it will often be smooth sailing once you get past that.
Veterans:
Even with this sort of team set up, the Legendary Pokemon teams of Veterans are something to watch out for. The biggest issue when facing them is that all their Pokemon may be running one of four different movesets. In particular, watch out for Choice Scarf on Entei or Terrakion.
Punk Guy Puck:
He only runs Pokemon that can have Intimidate. This can sometimes create situations where Garchomp is lagging behind on offensive pressure, which can give the opponent an opportunity to try to do something. Plan accordingly.
Conclusion:
1000 Wins in one run. 1000 Wins with my only run. After losing records in the 900s range at least once a generation since 3rd Gen, it's great to finally have something with 4 digits. As stated earlier, the team isn't even fully optimized yet. Feel free to try out other combinations of Pokemon with Greninja, Aron, Garchomp as the leads. Since I'm sure that I haven't made a perfect craft on first try.
Battle Video IDs:
319: JMVG-WWWW-WWW2-M34J
535: 95LW-WWWW-WWW3-37H7
1000: NTPG-WWWW-WWW2-ULK3
Thanks for reading.
Planning to use a dusclops/duscnoire for trickroom setter in multis, but i cant decide if i want bulk or power, which is really the choice with the different evos.
If I am to go with 'clops, what ev spread would be the more effective one for pure bulk? Nature is sassy, with 252 of the ev's in HP.
With 'noire i am assuming a hp/atk spread in ev's, but not sure if to use nature for +power or +bulk, taking out of speed. So, any constructive feedback and tips?
If I am to go with 'clops, what ev spread would be the more effective one for pure bulk? Nature is sassy, with 252 of the ev's in HP.
With 'noire i am assuming a hp/atk spread in ev's, but not sure if to use nature for +power or +bulk, taking out of speed. So, any constructive feedback and tips?
R Inanimate, is there a reason you're using Berry Juice over Shell Bell? I would think that Shell Bell would give you more 'lives', as long as you keep using Endeavor.
Fierza: If you want to try Dusclops, I'd suggest waiting until Pokebank hits to get a transferred one. The Dusclops from XD had Helping Hand, which is AMAZING on Dusclops. HH Dusclops + any Explosion user can completely demolish just about anything. Regardless, I'd say to prioritize bulk. He's got lots of good support options like Disable/WoW/Taunt, so trying to make him an attacker would be a waste in my opinion.
Fierza: If you want to try Dusclops, I'd suggest waiting until Pokebank hits to get a transferred one. The Dusclops from XD had Helping Hand, which is AMAZING on Dusclops. HH Dusclops + any Explosion user can completely demolish just about anything. Regardless, I'd say to prioritize bulk. He's got lots of good support options like Disable/WoW/Taunt, so trying to make him an attacker would be a waste in my opinion.
If it was to be used as a physical attacker, I would have evolved him to get that nice 100 base attack from Dusknoir, but as of now im thinking
Dusclops@eviolite
sassy 252 hp, 80 s.def, 176 def (for balanced bulk)
Frisk as ability.
Moves: Night shade, PoPunch, WoW and Trick room.
The pros/cons i see with Dusc compared to Aromatisse is immunity to fake-out, but losing the taunt immunity to aroma. Both are countered with confusion, which there is not too much to do about. For comparison, here is the Aromatisse set im thinking about :
Aromatisse@Lum berry
Sassy, 252 hp, 252 s.def, 4 def
Aroma veil
Moves: Thunderbolt, Moonblast/Dazzling gleam, trick room, aromatheraphy/reflect/light screen
I have not decided if I want more single target/spread dmg with the STAB move, but not too much difference between them. Its the 4th moveslot im more struggeling to perfect. I believe aromatheraphy would offer valuable team support curing any status issues and to avoid burn crippeling azumarill/t-tar/chomp on my team. When it comes to either of the screens i can get a 50% reduction to physical/special moves, but not for both of them w/o t-bolt. Its a tricky situation, but I feel my team is easier countered by physical attacks, so i would probably settle on reflect if i were to use any screen.
So, any thoughts? This is mostly for use in a triples team, with M-Abomasnow, Azumarill, Reuniclus, Tyranitar and Garchomp as companions.
Edit: typo
Just lost in Super Triples after a modest streak of 135. Proof: LT3W-WWWW-WWW3-EHEB. In retrospect I shouldn't have let that Lanturn set up but I've fought several Lanturns that spammed Stockpile while I picked off its teammates yet I still won. Probably could've won if Garchomp didn't get Ice Beam freeze hax'd. Oh well, I'm pleased with my streak. Here's my team:
Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Max HP / SpA
Torrent -> Mega Launcher
Modest
- Water Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Probably the one with the highest killcount. It picked off so many pokemon with its 3 attacks I quickly lost count. During Tailwind it outspeeds just about everything even without EV investment. He's cool, that's just about all that needs to be said.
Blissey @ King's Rock
52 HP / 252 Def / 204 Spe
Serene Grace
Bold
- Rock Slide
- Helping Hand
- Healing Pulse
- Protect
First of all, full credit for Blissey goes to TheMantyke. He's a genius. But I made a few changes to allow Blissey to fit better on my team. Since Blissey will almost always be operating under Tailwind I could replace the Scarf with King's Rock and give it more defensive investment so it can survive longer. With King's Rock, Blissey has a 70% chance to flinch each of the opposing pokemon with Rock Slide, a feature that is infinitely useful. Combine that with Aerodactyl's and Garchomp's Rock Slides and you get a real threat.
Without a Scarf, Blissey is free to help the team in other ways via Helping Hand and Healing Pulse, two moves that have each saved me many times. They are especially useful when Tailwind has permanently ran out and/or Blissey is paralyzed, allowing it not to be completely dead weight. Probably couldn't have gotten this far without this guy. EVs outspeed positive unboosted base 130's and below under Tailwind.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Max HP / Max Atk
Gale Wings
Adamant
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Steel Wing
- Tailwind
Sets up Tailwind for the team and, in the earlier battles, would take out 1-3 pokemon with Flare Blitz and/or Brave Bird. Really useful against the Fighting-types that want to kill Blissey. But in the later battles it would usually die instantly because almost everything carried a Rock attack. Priority Tailwind is just about all its good for. Blastoise can beat most of the pokemon that threaten it.
Mowtom @ White Herb
28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Levitate
Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Discharge
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
Mostly filler but it is very useful for combating the mono-Water teams with Ice Beam/Punch that the AI always throws at me. But it is quite weak against most other things. White Herb lets me fire off a free Leaf Storm with no drops. It also spreads status which has saved me several times. The RNG loves to troll me because every time I use Discharge next to Blissey without it using Protect it gets paralyzed. Every. Single. Time. EVs outspeed positive base 70s outside of Tailwind.
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Max Atk / Spe
Sand Veil
Jolly
- EQ
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Dragon Claw
Does this really need explanation? It basically kills all remnants of the opposing team. Especially with Helping Hand support. Spread moves are nice.
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Max Atk / Spe
Rock Head
Adamant
- Tailwind
- Rock Slide
- Fly
- Crunch
Backup Tailwind. Best I could pre-Pokebank. Its really fast. And Rock Slide is nice too I guess. But overall he's probably the weakest link. Doesn't hit especially hard and is so frail I had to use Focus Sash Fly lets me avoid Rotom's Discharges. And its only other option is Aerial Ace. Great huh?
So yeah, that's my team. I'll probably give either Multi or Rotation a shot next. I'm dreading it already...
Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Max HP / SpA
Torrent -> Mega Launcher
Modest
- Water Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect
Probably the one with the highest killcount. It picked off so many pokemon with its 3 attacks I quickly lost count. During Tailwind it outspeeds just about everything even without EV investment. He's cool, that's just about all that needs to be said.
Blissey @ King's Rock
52 HP / 252 Def / 204 Spe
Serene Grace
Bold
- Rock Slide
- Helping Hand
- Healing Pulse
- Protect
First of all, full credit for Blissey goes to TheMantyke. He's a genius. But I made a few changes to allow Blissey to fit better on my team. Since Blissey will almost always be operating under Tailwind I could replace the Scarf with King's Rock and give it more defensive investment so it can survive longer. With King's Rock, Blissey has a 70% chance to flinch each of the opposing pokemon with Rock Slide, a feature that is infinitely useful. Combine that with Aerodactyl's and Garchomp's Rock Slides and you get a real threat.
Without a Scarf, Blissey is free to help the team in other ways via Helping Hand and Healing Pulse, two moves that have each saved me many times. They are especially useful when Tailwind has permanently ran out and/or Blissey is paralyzed, allowing it not to be completely dead weight. Probably couldn't have gotten this far without this guy. EVs outspeed positive unboosted base 130's and below under Tailwind.
Talonflame @ Leftovers
Max HP / Max Atk
Gale Wings
Adamant
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Steel Wing
- Tailwind
Sets up Tailwind for the team and, in the earlier battles, would take out 1-3 pokemon with Flare Blitz and/or Brave Bird. Really useful against the Fighting-types that want to kill Blissey. But in the later battles it would usually die instantly because almost everything carried a Rock attack. Priority Tailwind is just about all its good for. Blastoise can beat most of the pokemon that threaten it.
Mowtom @ White Herb
28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Levitate
Modest
- Leaf Storm
- Discharge
- Toxic
- Will-O-Wisp
Mostly filler but it is very useful for combating the mono-Water teams with Ice Beam/Punch that the AI always throws at me. But it is quite weak against most other things. White Herb lets me fire off a free Leaf Storm with no drops. It also spreads status which has saved me several times. The RNG loves to troll me because every time I use Discharge next to Blissey without it using Protect it gets paralyzed. Every. Single. Time. EVs outspeed positive base 70s outside of Tailwind.
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Max Atk / Spe
Sand Veil
Jolly
- EQ
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Dragon Claw
Does this really need explanation? It basically kills all remnants of the opposing team. Especially with Helping Hand support. Spread moves are nice.
Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Max Atk / Spe
Rock Head
Adamant
- Tailwind
- Rock Slide
- Fly
- Crunch
Backup Tailwind. Best I could pre-Pokebank. Its really fast. And Rock Slide is nice too I guess. But overall he's probably the weakest link. Doesn't hit especially hard and is so frail I had to use Focus Sash Fly lets me avoid Rotom's Discharges. And its only other option is Aerial Ace. Great huh?
So yeah, that's my team. I'll probably give either Multi or Rotation a shot next. I'm dreading it already...
...Oops. Forgot it didn't work for moves with secondary effects. Next time I'll use a Lum Berry.
It does, just not on moves that already cause flinching.
I'm really stupid. But that's good to know for next time.
Just Bumping this... but to add on, I was thinking of maybe replacing greninja with a choice scarf ghost type and then forging scrappy for soundproof. OR I could get a Choice Scarf Mr. Mime to deal with Dragons or something...
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