Battle Maison Discussion & Records

Oh and earlier when we were talking about Attract strats, there is a male Sylveon after Battle 40 that has Cute Charm so male is still better to counter it, shame it got Kangaskhan though.
 
Yep, Pyroar that have come in 2nd/3rd don't use Hyper Voice so taking it out in 2 hits isn't a problem - they'll use all 5 PP of Overheat before going to anything else. I even remember a battle against Chef Roux where Pyroar 2 came out 2nd and used Sunny Day as it got outsped and 2HKOed. I don't feel too eager to watch the video of my loss yet, but I'm pretty sure that the Pyroar might have even tried a Dark Pulse or two.

6/14 edit: Seriously what the hell. Just did a mock battle against that team just to see if I'd get that unlucky again and the stupid Pyroar didn't even use Hyper Voice. Everything up to bringing Glalie in was identical - Pyroar went 2/2 on Overheat against Sableye and missed against Durant. After Overheat was out of PP it used Round three times and Dark Pulse once, at which point I just started attacking because Glalie was at +6 Special Attack and 100% health because why not. No idea how to explain why the AI wasn't using its most powerful remaining attack.

VaporeonIce , that Walrein was super unlucky against you because I'm pretty sure OHKO moves scale up in accuracy when you have a level advantage! turskain, all the lead Blaziken4 I've faced have had Blaze, but either way you need to Trick it your Focus Sash so Sableye dies right away. Even if it Flame Charges that turn, +1 Durant outspeeds +2 Blaziken. All the Blazikens have used Flare Blitz on Sableye rather than Flame Charge, and I'm confident that'll always be the case because it seems like recoil moves are pretty high in the AI's 'hierarchy.' When I got my Multi trophy, my partner was a Life Orb Infernape that almost always used Flare Blitz over Close Combat when the effectiveness would be the same, even if the recoil would KO it. That's ultimately irrelevant to what you'd do against it since you don't want to mess around with using Flash or something to let it get to +3 and outspeed Durant.

Never even thought of Pyroar with Rivalry, but I suppose that's reason enough to have Glalie go under the knife (or to just use a male Moody Snorunt I have laying around when I figure out a different EV spread to use, same difference).

I've never come across a lead Volcarona, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be too much of a problem because 1) it'd be even more likely to use Heat Wave over Bug Buzz against Glalie and 2) from fighting it 2nd/3rd, I know it *really* likes to use Quiver Dance (when set up, I typically 3HKO it for free as it uses QDs twice), which means I can steal some extra turns of boosting by Taunting from behind a Sub on a predicted Quiver Dance.

Also have briefly thought about how a level 1 Cottonee/Whimsicott would work with similar support moves, but the main edge Sableye has is in baiting Espeon into using moves like Grass Knot and Dazzling Gleam so you can switch directly to Durant and X-Scissor it. Embargo isn't used often, but it's key when you're fighting a lead like Latios where one set has Protect and another has an item you want to get rid of.
 
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If you lost battle 316 that means you had a streak of 315 not 316.
But one more typo I overlooked. I also originally said I used Team Musharna for battles 201-300 when it should have said 101-200. My streak still can't be submitted because of my methods, so it's moot.

Also have briefly thought about how a level 1 Cottonee/Whimsicott would work with similar support moves, but the main edge Sableye has is in baiting Espeon into using moves like Grass Knot and Dazzling Gleam so you can switch directly to Durant and X-Scissor it. Embargo isn't used often, but it's key when you're fighting a lead like Latios where one set has Protect and another has an item you want to get rid of.
I'm assuming that zero-attacks sets like Meganium 4 as leads would remain even after bringing in Durant and having no more potential OHKO? My only experience with Struggling enemies was with disabling a banded poke's locked move, and they were either killed right afterward or had no one to switch to.
 
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I'm assuming that zero-attacks sets like Meganium 4 as leads would remain even after bringing in Durant and having no more potential OHKO? My only experience with Struggling enemies was with disabling a banded poke's locked move, and they were either killed right afterward or had no one to switch to.
Yeah, the only ones that switch out are those that only have Normal/Psychic/Fighting attacking moves against Sableye, and even those are kind of inconsistent on which turn they switch. Setting up against something like Meganium 4 is fine because when they have Truant, you can use Protect when they Struggle and prevent recoil damage. A lot of sets like that don't even require you to use Protect that often because Glalie can spam Taunt just often enough until they Struggle to low health and then let them use a recovery move.
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
All Trophies.jpg

Finally got all five trophies. The first four were a breeze, but multi with a less than ideal AI partner was rather more frustrating.

Singles: I've already written up my successful singles teams at length HERE and HERE

Rotation: I wrote up my quick rotation streak HERE

Doubles: I used a front row pairing of Mega Charizard-Y and Scarf Erruption Typhlosion, and a back row of Garchomp and Thundurus. Lots of fast Eruptions, with Earthquake + Discharge to clean up if needed. Team didn't feel particularly well built, but it was consistent enough for 50 and played fast, my main priority.

Triples: I used SimicCombine's front row of Greninja - Mega Blastoise - Talonflame, and threw random good-stuff behind them (Aron - Garchomp - Dragonite). The front row was amazing (two big Water Spouts in a row really hurt, especially when supported by partners who can hit pretty hard with good coverage on the second turn) so the back row didn't have to do too much work. Still, bait Aron pulled its weight when I called on him.

Multis: This was ugly. My only decent friend set used Haxorus3 with Rivalry and Toxicroak3 with Anticipation. Choice Band Haxorus can hit really hard, but will happily Earthquake for KOs even when it will knock out its partner too, making a lead Flying-type or Levitator pretty much a necessity. After much trial and error, I settled on a lead of Modest Togekiss with an Assault Vest (Dazzling Gleam - Air Slash - Grass Knot - Aura Sphere) and a backup of Jolly Mega Kangaskahn (Power-up Punch - Return - Crunch - Sucker Punch). The AI is horribly bad and still sometimes stays in when locked into Earthquake when both the foes fly, Outrages when one of the foes is a Fairy, etc., but my own Pokemon were just good enough to keep the team afloat. Even EVed for Speed and Special Attack, Togekiss can tank a lot of special attacks, and Mega Kanga cleans up a lot of messes. I switched to Latios and Greninja for battle 50, since with specifically tailored sets, they much better cover Nita and Morgan's Pokemon. So glad the multi grind is over!

I'll have limited internet access the next couple of weeks, but next big priority is more work on the big Battle Maison article. Check out the WIP HERE.
 
This isn't an accomplishment or a question, but a mini-vent: don't Maison tired. You might forfeit when you meant to save and return.
I was only on battle 30, but still. ARGH.
 
My Super Triples streak just ended at 753 wins. I'm pretty disappointed that it ended there. I had been cruising up to that point, but some bad luck and two key poor decisions lost it for me. I guess I won't be reaching the 1,000 win mark. D:

Proof :( - RJTG-WWWW-WWW7-TST9

Here's how the loss broke down:
  1. I switch out Talonflame to kill Gyarados, Fake Out the other two.
  2. I KO Gyarados and Probopass, but I fail to KO Dusknoir with Crunch. I know full well that I can't OHKO Dusknoir with Crunch...I should have used Helping Hand and absorbed Probo's weak attacks.
  3. Dusknoir uses Trick Room.
  4. A bit rattled by the Trick Room, I make poor decisions from here on out. I usually use Crunch on Carracosta as not to trigger Weakness Policy, but I decided to try and Close Combat + Brick Break. Pain Split + Earthquake KOs Hitmonlee before he attacks, so Brick Break triggers Weakness Policy. Dusknoir survives the Earthquake because of Pain Split.
  5. I bring in Talonflame in case Carracosta uses earthquake again, but it uses Aqua Jet before Brave Bird. I make a stupid mistake and use Crunch on Carracosta, recognizing my error before, but it fails to KO. Critical mistake.
  6. I have to hit Weavile twice to break the Focus Sash even though it is dirt slow due to Trick Room. It OHKO's Zapdos.
  7. The AI has Mandibuzz, Dusnoir, and Caracosta. I have Greninja and Garchomp. Dusknoir uses Destiny Bond. Carracosta KO's Garchomp, Rough Skin KO's Carracosta, Greninja KO's Dusknoir because Carracosta fainted.
  8. And I lose.

One thing I learned from this experience is that 'Hax' absolutely does not exist. I made poor decisions that lost me the game and I deserved to lose that one. Legendary teams aren't even much of a problem. My last few loses in the Maison have been to derpy gimmick teams that I underestimate and make poor decisions against.

For reference, this is the team that I use:

Talonflame @ Choice Band w/Gale Wings
Adamant, 250 HP, 252 ATK, 8 SPD
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Flare Blitz
-Steel Wing

Hitmonlee @ Focus Sash w/Unburden
Adamant, 252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 HP
-Fake Out
-Helping Hand
-Close Combat
-Protect

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite w/Scrappy
Jolly, 252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 HP
-Fake Out
-Crunch
-Return
-Brick Break

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf w/Rough Skin
Adamant, 252 ATK, 252 SPD, 6 HP
-Dragon Claw
-Earthquake
-Crunch
-Iron Head

Zapdos @ Life Orb w/Pressure
Timid, 252 SPA, 252 SPD, 6 HP
-Thunderbolt
-Discharge
-Sky Drop
-Protect

Greninja @ Expert Belt w/Protean
Timid, 252 SPA, 252 SPD, 6 HP
-Scald
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam
-Mat Block

Final Assesment:
  • I'm a genwunner who didn't know 80% of the Pokemon when starting Pokemon XY, so it took me considerable trial and error to understand all the different new Pokemon.
  • I didn't know much about Hidden Powers when I caught my Zapdos. It has HP Ghost, but Sky Drop is honestly more useful. HP Grass would be great though.
  • I should have tried to acquire a Kangaskhan with Drain Punch, but I like the idea of using a team entirely available on one cartridge. I probably would have won if I had Drain Punch...I might not have used Crunch at the last moment as well.
  • After about 100 wifi battles since my 331 streak, I've gotten much better at switches. I realized how powerful switching out Kangaskhan to reset Fake Out can be. This time, I switched out Kangaskhan any time it didn't have a relevant/essential attack, and it saved my butt countless times.
  • I used Earthquake with Garchomp more than previously because I'm better at setting up the situations.
  • Greninja is not to be underrated. As long as you can set up situations where Greninja is not outsped, it can and will save your streak in a pinch. Just not under Trick Room.

For those who didn't read my last post, the strategy is to double Fake Out and KO something with Talonflame. There is no Quick Guard in Super Triples. The team has numerous different offensive options available to it. Played correctly, there are multiple ways to beat anything you'll see in the Maison.

Here's a couple where things go well, for those who are interested:
-5VYW-WWWW-WWW&-TTTT
-ZRGG-WWWW-WWW&-TTU4

And for good measure, here are a couple classic Darkrai-beat videos that I have saved, for those who are interested:
-F3PG-WWWW-WWW7-TU3M this one always makes me laugh, shows power of Helping Hand.
-CCDW-WWWW-WWW7-TU4B I used to use Hitmonchan. The moveset was the inspiration for the whole strategy, Hitmonlee proved to be better at the job. Hitmonlee would have OHKO Cobalion with speed advantage where Hitmonchan did not and could have been KO'd without laying a hit. Also, that is a legit shiny Imposter Ditto. Notice the imperfet HP (it's Rash).

On wifi, in Doubles, this strategy is uber against noobs and their Legendary teams while being very fair against Intimidate and has a poor match-up against Trick Room, especially Mega Ampharos. + Cresellia and that nonsense. In the Maison, in Triples, I get such an advantage from the AI not using Quick Guard and triple teaming Hitmonlee that my ability to get long streaks does not directly translate into success in wifi battles.
 
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I actually fought an Escavalier 1 today in Triples, who used Quick Guard twice for some reason (Megahorn could have hit one of my pokes for neutral damage.) The move only exists on three sets, only one of which possible to encounter past battle 40 (Cobalion 3) but it is still there.

Congratulations on your insane streak, all the same! Say what you will about Triples being so much easier than Singles; Goodstuffs teams just seem that much more commendable in this format than teams built around one or two extremely good moves, like Tailwind. I was impressed.

I began another streak for the fun of it. I don't plan to allow any team to battle for more than ten rounds, so it's highly unlikely that I'll climb anywhere near 300 again, but I have a lot of fun pitting my tactics against my luck, poor conditions AI stupidity.

I've been recording both the teams and various random things I noted, be they trends or battles that got ridiculous. I'll whip that up later, though. I played today at work, without being able to check movesets, so I was happy once I reached the 30s and began facing trainers with Set 4 pokes, of which I've memorized a great deal.

Multis: This was ugly. My only decent friend set used Haxorus3 with Rivalry and Toxicroak3 with Anticipation. Choice Band Haxorus can hit really hard, but will happily Earthquake for KOs even when it will knock out its partner too, making a lead Flying-type or Levitator pretty much a necessity. After much trial and error, I settled on a lead of Modest Togekiss with an Assault Vest (Dazzling Gleam - Air Slash - Grass Knot - Aura Sphere) and a backup of Jolly Mega Kangaskahn (Power-up Punch - Return - Crunch - Sucker Punch). The AI is horribly bad and still sometimes stays in when locked into Earthquake when both the foes fly, Outrages when one of the foes is a Fairy, etc., but my own Pokemon were just good enough to keep the team afloat. Even EVed for Speed and Special Attack, Togekiss can tank a lot of special attacks, and Mega Kanga cleans up a lot of messes. I switched to Latios and Greninja for battle 50, since with specifically tailored sets, they much better cover Nita and Morgan's Pokemon. So glad the multi grind is over!
Tell me about it. I was so envious of the guys that had an AI partner with a solid legendary plus decent backup; until AFTER I'd already gotten the damn trophy, some of the best 530+/600 BST pokes were paired with utter deadweight with stall sets, or a Banded poke, usually Trevenant. After I had at least three streaks killed by CB Trevenant making the worst possible decision and killing my own pokes, I swore I'd never pair with it or another CB holder again.

Aaaaand I went back on my word. A friend with no interest in postgame or competitions gave me his Y-exclusive Mega stones, and I bred a good Zard Y. One AI had Slaking 3 as a lead, and while Giga Impact is about as big a no-no as you can get, I admired that, like Tyrantrum 4, that behemoth just does not like to leave targets with any HP remaining. I lead with a Rotom-Wash, so it could never screw me over with Earthquake (interestingly enough, it often chose to Impact when there was a ground weakness present from the getgo, but eh.)

While I did have some luck in regards to avoiding horrible matchups for my own pokes, the two of us did make it to battle 50 without a lot of grief (his second poke was Chandelure 3.) I swapped Rotom for a Scarfed Darmanitan and used my original pair of Gardevoir/Electivire 3, and while I only won because Virizion missed a crucial Stone Edge, Nita and Morgan were trounced.

Despite the AI teammates providing an obnoxious challenge, I gotta say, before I dove into Triples, I really enjoyed Multi AI just to pass the time.
 
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I actually fought an Escavalier 1 today in Triples, who used Quick Guard twice for some reason (Megahorn could have hit one of my pokes for neutral damage.) The move only exists on three sets, only one of which possible to encounter past battle 40 (Cobalion 3) but it is still there.
Thanks, that's good to know. For some reason, in over 1,000 matches of Super Triples, I've never seen Quick Guard. I don't think the AI understands priority very well. Spiritomb is constantly trying to Sucker Punch my Talonflame even though it's slower. Also, I almost always Fake Out Escavalier, which is a +3 versus +2 priority (edit - this isn't right). Also, considering the AI's obsession/fear with/of OHKOs, it's probably expecting Fire Blitz with I hardly ever use. Maybe it only uses it on Aqua Jet or something.

This is a little crazy, but I am going to try again for +1,000 consecutive wins. I feel like I let my team down. Hitmonlee deserves 1,000. I'm definitely not going to burn myself out on it again though, maybe 10 a day if I can stomach the battle music. One positive of my strategy is that I can consistantly win about 12-16 battles in an hour (maybe a bit more)...bad news is it will still take about 100 hours (rough guess). Add my two streaks together and I still don't have 1,000, so in order to reach it I have to win the same about again PLUS a bunch more battles...EDIT WTH? I can't add or think very well after that defeat.

And definitely, triples is the by far the easiest to get long streaks in. With six pokemon, you can have perfect coverage for the Maison and outclass them with better Pokemon. Triples is a more broken format than Doubles on wifi. Every team with perfect coverage, a Quick Guard, a screener, a Talonflame, a Kangaskhan can get pretty stale. So when I play wifi I play doubles. The variety is what makes it fun, but it also makes it much harder to get long streaks in Super Doubles. I can't go back to singles anymore, doubles has the right level of complexity and pace of game for me.

I didn't intentionally build a goodstuff team...it's just what I needed to allow Hitmonlee to be an enabler, as he precedes the Kangaskhan, Garchomp and Talonflame. I feel bad crushing teams of NU pokemon while I'm just trying to make my NU guy good by playing him with what he's good with. I find it ironic that Mega Blastoise has been more successful than Mega Kangaskhan in these rankings, since Blastoise was pretty much replaced by Kangaskhan on my team.

GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE ELSE. FORGIVE MY POOR COMMUNICATION SKILLS.
 
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Just hit 1040.
My streak finally hit 1000. Then ended 41 battles in. I was trying to go further but I do not think I played this one so great. Oh well, I managed to hit 1000 which was my goal so not too disappointed.

Battle Video #1041: BMFG-WWWW-WWW7-UTHY
The team only slightly different from before. Changes from previous streak are bolded.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Gale Wings
Adamant
EVs: 48 HP/ 252 Atk/ 210 Spd
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

The only change to talonflame was Taunt over Flare Blitz. I never look back. I missed a few key OHKOs (bug/steel, some ice types, grass/steel), but outside of those it was a good choice. Taunt stops so many things, I would say that during this run I am using taunt as much as tailwind first turn.

Kangaskhan @Kangaskhanite
Inner Focus > Parental Bond
Adamant
EV
s: 108 HP/ 252 Atk/ 36 Def/ 36 SDef/ 76 Spd
- Fake Out
- Power-up-punch
- Return
- Sucker Punch

Kangashkan went through the most changes. Running Adamant under tailwind give me speed of 260 (Only losing to Aerodactyl 1, who cannot take sucker punch). With less speed, Sucker Punch became necessary; paired with taunt, it shuts down trick room teams. Finally, I chose Inner Focus over scrappy. I never used scrappy, and while it is random as to who the AI will fake out, by not mega-evolving, khan is guaranteed to land one PuP.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Protean
Timid
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

First turn Mat Block still wins at triples. Other moves are coverage. No changes, move along.

Excadrill @ Focus Sash
Mold Breaker
Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk/ 4 Def/ 252 Spd
- Protect
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Focus sash and protect are useful. Other moves are coverage. Good typing and ability. Loves rock or electric moves intended for talonflame.

Zapdos @ Wide Lens
Pressure
Modest
EVs: 252 SAtk/ 4 SDef/ 252 Spd
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power- Grass
- Detect

I wanted additional electric protection. While it does not actually absorb the attack, not being able to be paralyzed and some bulk is how I decided on this one (I was also looking for flying so excadrill could earthquake all day). Wide lens for heat wave; hp-grass for rock/ground. Had trouble with final slot, it was between tailwind/detect/roost.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Extreme Speed
- Waterfall

Thanks to zapdos having heat wave, fire punch seemed useless. Extreme Speed is useful, as dragonite was usually my last one to send out. Also, did not see the reason to run earthquake again so I used waterfall. Maybe protect or roost would’ve been more useful.

Threats:
· Fake out or faster threats who can prevent mat block (looking at you crobat)
· still trick room
· punk guy puck is irritating due to being 2/3 physical.
This team has good synergy in triples and handles threats well. Won’t be going for this again anytime soon, but good luck to those who have ongoing streaks still. Time to finally get the last trophy I guess.

Yoshi1777 - good luck trying again!
 
Congrats on breaking 1000 brakerider

I've been poking away at my triples streak recently, up to 1086

Video: 69JG-WWWW-WWW7-VW6Z (incidentally the first time I saw a last mon use Explosion. Blastoise still survived.)

Team is unchanged, original post here
 
Breaking a thousand is still legit. To the Boy Who Cries Hax, it's unbelievable and insane. ;)

As for 12-16 battles an hour, I think you can easily do more than that, especially if your team is able to reach something like 753. Even without having party nukes like HH Eruption/Water Spout/etc that clear the floor, I was able to finish ten battles with my random gangs in a half hour or even less. It's the ones that go south that can take 5 minutes or more.

FUCKING JYNX.

My randoms streak was killed in a really disappointing fashion on battle 58, which I could have easily won were it not for some atrociously bad luck.

Had I finished the ten, I would have listed the teams used up to that point along with the notes, but now I'd rather spend the entire time bitching going over that ill-fated battle.

My team: Bronzong/Mega Abomasnow/Gastrodon/Azumarill/Luxray/Gogoat
Owner Galton's team: Jynx/Chesnaught/Electrode/Typhlosion/Manectric/Forretress

#58 ELBW-WWWW-WWW7-V2AY

Before you think I was given a pretty crappy team to begin with, hey, they were doing just fine. I rolled over two Veterans and beat another one (the first of the three, actually) in spite of losing Bronzong on Turn One due to a mispredict in which center Heatran 2 targeted it instead of Abomasnow. In another battle, Abomasnow blocked not one but two Turn One Fissures; while Bronzong was demolished by Sheer Cold the following turn, by then it was too late. Leading Gastrodon proved to be a good idea, as half of the battles began with Gogoat getting an easy Sap Sipper boost.

Since it's not a high streak, I'll just mention the many turds that hit the fan, set to max speed:

  • Electrode Taunts Bronzong Turn One, who holds a Macho Brace and not a Mental/Lum, since it allows Gyro Ball to OHKO much more.
  • Instead of absuing Mega Abomasnow's Hail, Jynx would rather spam Lovely Kiss, and sleeps two of my pokes during battle, Abomasnow being one of them (who wakes up before it can be wrecked, but it made no difference.)
  • Bronzong returns ASAP, this time the hell away from Electrode, and is also one of the only times Jynx uses Blizzard, which freezes Bronzong.
  • Bronzong stays frozen for the remainder of the battle while slowly being killed. The maddening part is, even as they fuck my team six ways from Sunday, be it Lovely Kiss or slow and painful death, as each one faints or is incapacitated, I'm thinking "I still have the resources to pull this through and OHKO them, especially Jynx, if BRONZONG WOULD JUST FRIGGING THAW OUT."
  • While Chesnaught and Jynx derp at Bronzong & Co, Luxray beats up what it can, taking down Electrode and Manectric (who did nothing but spam Trick, notably movelocking Luxray into Crunch.)
  • Forretress comes in, notices there's nothing it can do to troll me harder except explode, but only wounds us.
  • Typhlosion comes in, and despite MegaSnow being at full health, it refuses to Lava Plume and kill its Chesnaught hanging on by a thread.
  • MegaSnow even successfully Protects twice, trying to make this happen, while Jynx is hellbent on putting it asleep again; though in hindsight, Protect was meaningless, for if it killed Chesnaught, I'd still be slower and simply nuked the next turn. Finally, I'm hit with Extrasensory, Lovely Kiss, and Stone Edge. Game Over.
Just 'cause I feel like tossing my brave soldiers of the previous 50 battles some props:

1-10: Mega Aggron/Cresselia/Sylveon/Dragonite/Wailord/Emboar
11-20: Slowbro/Mega Heracross/Glaceon/Swampert/Probopass/Sylveon
21-30: Slowbro/Mega Abomasnow/Blissey/Honchkrow/Golurk/Bisharp
31-40: Conkeldurr/Cresselia/Clefable/Scizor/Regice/Mega Mawile
41-50: Hariyama/Cresselia/Mega Ampharos/Scizor/Swampert/Rampardos

Getting more repeats than I'd like in the abusers department, but at least the setters and megas have an excuse.
 
Thanks, nice job with your streak so far. Keep at it SimicCombine
I ran across more than a few during my run that would explode as the last mon on the opponent's team. Never accomplished anything but the AI does strange things sometimes.
 

turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Finally got a streak past the previous 399 record - currently at 400 wins with a new team centered around a Pokémon never seen before on the leaderboard in any mode. I'll post once I finally get that 500.
 
5 trophies post:

The singles streak of 332 is the only one that's used the slightest amount of creativity. Everything else is paused at right around 50 and is mostly composed of the standard Mega-Kangaskhan, Lum Berry Dragonite, Mat Block Greninja, Endeavor Aron, etc.

Multis were easy enough thanks to an AI partner with Infernape 3 and Typhlosion 3 - more than good enough with MegaKhan and Dragonite even if I learned early on to just assume the Infernape wasn't using Fake Out on anything. Triples was just R Inanimate's team with different EVs for the back 3 Pokemon because who needs them to get 50? Doubles was a while ago and don't really remember, but MegaKhan and Talonflame were probably the leads.

Rotation was the last one I tried. Dragonite, Aegislash, LO Greninja and MegaKhan in the back were enough to overpower things without ever having much success predicting what the AI was going to do. Switched Khan out for CB Talonflame against the Chatelaine, but it didn't end up playing much of a role in the match.

Big thanks to everyone involved in creating this thread and gathering the Trainer/Pokemon lists that make that serve as the springboard for all the great theorymon discussion about the Maison.
 
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turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
500!

I wasn't planning to post the 500th battle since the streak's not over yet, but the battle turned to be something of a nail-biter while showing off top threats, so here it is:
K29W-WWWW-WWW8-XGZR vs. Slowking / Dewgong / Aurorus / Vaporeon

The new team is as follows:


Lucario @ Lucarionite ** Zica Charger
Nature: Timid
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Protect


Greninja @ Focus Sash ** Zinglon
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA, 244 Spe, 12 HP
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block


Garchomp @ Life Orb ** SuperCarrot
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect


Talonflame @ Sharp Beak ** U-Ship
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 SDef
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect

Lucario is in the first position to scout for Magnet Pull - having Mat Block Greninja in it is more comfortable, but with Lucario you can check if Magnezone and Probopass have Magnet Pull (and therefore don't have Sturdy) whenever they show up

Why run special Lucario instead of the more common, harder-hitting physical one? Physical Lucario's moves aside from Close Combat suck - you get no Iron Head and priority on a base 112 Speed Pokémon is generally useless in the Maison, aside from hitting Aerodactyl with Bullet Punch. It also gets hit by Intimidate, Static, Flame Body, is destroyed by burn, and all the other nasty things. With Special Lucario, you have Aura Sphere, the best move in the Maison and the counter to many BrightPowder/Double Team Pokémon, including Regigigas, Lax Incense Explosion Lickilicky, Brightpowder Glaceon, Brightpowder Magnezone, and more. Against resists like Lati@s1 and Zapdos2 it is unfortunately not as awesome, but the ability to hit through Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Muddy Water/Mud Bomb/Double Team/Minimize bullshit is amazing. And it has Flash Cannon for an equally powerful secondary STAB, giving it the powerful coverage physical Lucario wishes it had. Nasty Plot rounds it out with a massive power boost that makes Mega Lucario's neutral hits around 50% stronger than SE Ice Beam from Greninja, which is a heck of a lot of damage, and enough to kill nearly anything, including most resists when combined with the appropriate attack from Greninja. Dark Pulse is rejected since it's not powerful enough to get the snipes you'd want it for (most notably Slowking).

Lucario's Ground/Fire/Fighting weaknesses need to be covered, and many potentially viable Pokémon can do this - but only Talonflame can counter the specific threats that Lucario is terrible against: Scarf Darmanitan, Volcarona and Speed Boost Blaziken are the big ones. This Pokémon is rather underwhelming in the Maison - many of the fast threats you would want to use priority on (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Manectric) resist it, its power is lacking for securing kills with its non-existent bulk even with Sharp Beak, and Flare Blitz can't even kill Sheer Cold Articuno unless you give it Life Orb. I'd advise against using Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles, unless you're using Mega Lucario and require it on your team because of that. In its defense, Tailwind can be very useful in some situations, and enables it to contribute something even with Zapdos and Thundurus looming over it and turning it into a smoldering turd. Max HP is standard fare for Maison, and absolutely required for it to be able to switch in into nasty attacks like Darmanitan Flare Blitz and not die to recoil after getting the kill.

You may think I'm underrating the Pokémon since it got this far in the Maison, but it really is every bit as bad as I say - check out these calcs:

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-165 (97.2 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 186-222 (96.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO)
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 152-180 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Average: 168-200 (97.6 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Leafeon: 132-156 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 136-162 (92.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

I've seen Talonflame miss every single one of these kills during the streak, and it has been costly every time. It's a small miracle the streak hasn't ended because of it yet. If I had a Life Orb to spare, I'd give it to Talonflame in a heartbeat despite the recoil just to secure kills. It's pretty much the Wide Lens of Talonflame, without it you are gambling with Play Rough-like odds at best when it counts. Don't use Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles - unless your team has a huge Volcarona/Darmanitan/ShucaBlaziken-shaped hole that needs to be filled and nothing else can do it, which this one does.

Garchomp is the best Dragon in Maison Doubles/Triples. It has immunity to Thunder Wave and Electric immunity, which are mandatory to have on any team that utilizes Mat Block Greninja, as it hates fast Electric attacks and Thunder Wave. Not much to say, other than if you run Mat Block Greninja, be it in Doubles or Triples, you want Garchomp. Life Orb is preferred for this team, as the enemies have to die before they KO the frail, weak Talonflame. Yache Berry would help a lot against Slowking and Slowbro and other Waters, but without Life Orb Garchomp would lack the damage it needs.

Mat Block Greninja destroys 90% of the Maison all by itself harder than any other (non-TR Aron) lead could. It's so powerful there's nearly no reason to run any other lead in Aron-less Maison Doubles - Mat Block puts Fake Out to shame, and it is also a potent offensive force with three STAB attacks including STAB Ice Beam and massive Speed on top of it.

The top two threats by far are Slowking and Slowbro, resisting Lucario while killing everyone with Blizzard/Ice Beam, Surf and Psychic under Trick Room. Slowbro can be killed with Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon, but Slowking is unkillable and will always set up TR. Slowbro is no less of a threat, though - if it shows up 3rd/4th and you don't have Greninja around to hit it, it is an even bigger menace than Slowking with Blizzard to destroy all and massive physical bulk to stop Talonflame and Garchomp from touching it. If the dreaded Slowking + Slowbro lead pair shows up on a Pokémon Ranger or Beauty Orla, it will probably be the end of the streak if the back-ups are anything decent.

Zoroark is another big threat, as it OHKOes Lucario while outspeeding it on Turn 1 and masquerading as something harmless.

Other nasties include the usual things Mat Block Greninja fears - Roller Skaters and all the terrible, terrible Electric Pokémon and Choice Scarf users they run, and Trick Room. More specifically to the Lucario/Talonflame/Garchomp set-up, bulky waters are unpleasant, though usually manageable if their names don't begin with Slow. Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Hypnosis and Teeter Dance are as threatening as ever, though Lucario does hit Regigigas nicely. Donphan is hell, as it is wildly unpredictable against Greninja/Lucario - I've seen it use Seed Bomb on Greninja, Stone Edge on Greninja (why?! Seed Bomb is stronger even if Stone Edge crits), and less commonly Earthquake and Fissure. You just never know what's coming when Donphan comes out, and it's absolutely miserable. On the bright side. once its Sturdy has popped and it's done claiming the Fissure kills, Talonflame has priority to put it down for good.



As always, I'll be wrapping this up once the streak is done. Topics to be covered include why Mega Charizard Y is outclassed by Mega Lucario as a Greninja partner, and some lucky near-loss battle videos.
 
Excellent! I'm surprised Chef Carlos didn't get a mention, since he's got your good old Water/Ice exclusive team with all the nasty, nasty stuff on it. I butt heads with him all the time.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
So I was doing a favour for wowgek7 in which I had to get the ribbon for clearing the super Chatelaines in any mode on his Salamence, so I took the Talonflame / Azumarill / M-Kangaskhan team I used to get there the first time I did it and figured I'd bring Salamence in just for the 50th match. I heard you could sweep her by spamming ice beam with a scarf Greninja, lucky for me I had one on hand. Unlucky that after OHKOing her Thundurus I found that her Tornadus could tank ice beam thanks to it's yache berry and proceed to kill Greninja with Focus Blast! Even worse was that I had figured if Greninja was going to solo Nita with Salamence riding the bench, I may as well try to get the ribbon on my trusty old story-mode Delphox as well. Once I had stopped freaking out about my fallen Greninja I decided to send in Delphox and try to finish it off so I could bait Landorus into locking itself into earth power so Salamence could finish it. It didn't help that Tornadus spammed double team and hid behind it's sub but luckily Delphox pulled it off!

Anyway that thrilling warstory aside, I'm now wondering where everyone has been getting the idea that scarf protean Greninja can sweep her? I'm surprised at myself for not remembering the yache berry in the first place but whatever...
 
So I was doing a favour for wowgek7 in which I had to get the ribbon for clearing the super Chatelaines in any mode on his Salamence, so I took the Talonflame / Azumarill / M-Kangaskhan team I used to get there the first time I did it and figured I'd bring Salamence in just for the 50th match. I heard you could sweep her by spamming ice beam with a scarf Greninja, lucky for me I had one on hand. Unlucky that after OHKOing her Thundurus I found that her Tornadus could tank ice beam thanks to it's yache berry and proceed to kill Greninja with Focus Blast! Even worse was that I had figured if Greninja was going to solo Nita with Salamence riding the bench, I may as well try to get the ribbon on my trusty old story-mode Delphox as well. Once I had stopped freaking out about my fallen Greninja I decided to send in Delphox and try to finish it off so I could bait Landorus into locking itself into earth power so Salamence could finish it. It didn't help that Tornadus spammed double team and hid behind it's sub but luckily Delphox pulled it off!

Anyway that thrilling warstory aside, I'm now wondering where everyone has been getting the idea that scarf protean Greninja can sweep her? I'm surprised at myself for not remembering the yache berry in the first place but whatever...
Probably just people repeating misinformation. You couldn't even do it without the Yache Berry unless Greninja were Modest (and even then, it would only be 68.8% of the time) because Tornadus has HP investment and is therefore alarmingly bulky. Jolly Scarf Darmanitan actually CAN sweep her, but you only have a 62.5% chance to OHKO Landorus.
 
So I was doing a favour for wowgek7 in which I had to get the ribbon for clearing the super Chatelaines in any mode on his Salamence, so I took the Talonflame / Azumarill / M-Kangaskhan team I used to get there the first time I did it and figured I'd bring Salamence in just for the 50th match. I heard you could sweep her by spamming ice beam with a scarf Greninja, lucky for me I had one on hand. Unlucky that after OHKOing her Thundurus I found that her Tornadus could tank ice beam thanks to it's yache berry and proceed to kill Greninja with Focus Blast! Even worse was that I had figured if Greninja was going to solo Nita with Salamence riding the bench, I may as well try to get the ribbon on my trusty old story-mode Delphox as well. Once I had stopped freaking out about my fallen Greninja I decided to send in Delphox and try to finish it off so I could bait Landorus into locking itself into earth power so Salamence could finish it. It didn't help that Tornadus spammed double team and hid behind it's sub but luckily Delphox pulled it off!

Anyway that thrilling warstory aside, I'm now wondering where everyone has been getting the idea that scarf protean Greninja can sweep her? I'm surprised at myself for not remembering the yache berry in the first place but whatever...
If you're going to take one Pokemon in for that battle, let it be Focus Sash Shell Smash Cloyster.
 

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
If you're going to take one Pokemon in for that battle, let it be Focus Sash Shell Smash Cloyster.
Try saying that out loud haha. Thanks, I'll remember for next time. Just hope that annoying Tornadus doesn't double team hax you and land a couple focus blasts!

Probably just people repeating misinformation. You couldn't even do it without the Yache Berry unless Greninja were Modest (and even then, it would only be 68.8% of the time) because Tornadus has HP investment and is therefore alarmingly bulky. Jolly Scarf Darmanitan actually CAN sweep her, but you only have a 62.5% chance to OHKO Landorus.
Wow that's interesting that the Tornadus is EV'd like that. I suppose theoretically, prankster double team (and also substitute) could shut down any strategy for it. I'm going back through this thread because I'm sure I read it here that Gren was the perfect answer..
 
Dear Battle Maison,

As you may or may not have noticed, I haven't been active for the past few weeks (or maybe even months), and updates don't happen as frequently as I -or most of you, probably- would like. I could write a very long post explaining why that is but I don't feel like doing that and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter (why).

Truth be told, when Peterko went inactive and a Smogon member started a thread about the Battle Maison I contacted Stellar and DHR-107 with the request to put me in ''charge'' of the Battle Maison thread, taking care of updating and creating a record system which we have been using for the past months. To keep it simple, and by avoiding using too many words, I decided to stop updating the thread. I recently bought a house with my girlfriend and I recently got a permanent contract at work (involving a higher function). I don't feel like I have the time, nor the motivation to keep this thread updated frequently. Therefor I think it would be best in all of our interest if some one else ''steps up'' and ''takes over'' the Battle Maison Discussion and Records thread. I don't like going ''out'' without some final words and explanation as to why I don't feel like / want to do it anymore.

I could have messaged Stellar and DHR-107 this information but I think it would be best if all people who actually care have the opportunity to read it. Most importantly, this should give members a chance to contact one of the moderators mentioned before with the request to continue updating this thread (and I'm sure one of you will).

I won't leave Smogon (I never did since 2008) and I will check this thread from time to time, I just don't feel like I'm active enough to actually run this thread right now, let alone play Battle Maison. If a replacement won't be found within a short time notice, I will update the thread one final time.

With that being said, I wish all of you the best of luck with achieving records and sharing information regarding the Battle Maison, which has (and always will be) my favourite aspect of Pokémon.

Kind regards,

Eppie
 
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turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Well, that was anticlimactic. Posting a streak of 554 wins in Super Doubles (without Aron).
Battle video: 6CVW-WWWW-WWW8-22F3 vs. Donphan / Vaporeon / Clawitzer / Barbaracle
No comment. In my defense, that was my first time seeing Donphan not go for Stone Edge on Talonflame, especially when EQ would hit its ally and not hit Talonflame, but there's really no excuse for the brain-melting misplays that followed. I did say Donphan was hell, and it tilted me hard here. And 554 is pretty decent and meets my goals, so it's not that bad.


500!

I wasn't planning to post the 500th battle since the streak's not over yet, but the battle turned to be something of a nail-biter while showing off top threats, so here it is:
K29W-WWWW-WWW8-XGZR vs. Slowking / Dewgong / Aurorus / Vaporeon

The new team is as follows:


Lucario @ Lucarionite ** Zica Charger
Nature: Timid
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Aura Sphere
- Flash Cannon
- Nasty Plot
- Protect


Greninja @ Focus Sash ** Zinglon
Nature: Timid
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 SpA, 244 Spe, 12 HP
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block


Garchomp @ Life Orb ** SuperCarrot
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Protect


Talonflame @ Sharp Beak ** U-Ship
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 SDef
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Protect

Lucario is in the first position to scout for Magnet Pull - having Mat Block Greninja in it is more comfortable, but with Lucario you can check if Magnezone and Probopass have Magnet Pull (and therefore don't have Sturdy) whenever they show up

Why run special Lucario instead of the more common, harder-hitting physical one? Physical Lucario's moves aside from Close Combat suck - you get no Iron Head and priority on a base 112 Speed Pokémon is generally useless in the Maison, aside from hitting Aerodactyl with Bullet Punch. It also gets hit by Intimidate, Static, Flame Body, is destroyed by burn, and all the other nasty things. With Special Lucario, you have Aura Sphere, the best move in the Maison and the counter to many BrightPowder/Double Team Pokémon, including Regigigas, Lax Incense Explosion Lickilicky, Brightpowder Glaceon, Brightpowder Magnezone, and more. Against resists like Lati@s1 and Zapdos2 it is unfortunately not as awesome, but the ability to hit through Sand Veil/Snow Cloak/Muddy Water/Mud Bomb/Double Team/Minimize bullshit is amazing. And it has Flash Cannon for an equally powerful secondary STAB, giving it the powerful coverage physical Lucario wishes it had. Nasty Plot rounds it out with a massive power boost that makes Mega Lucario's neutral hits around 50% stronger than SE Ice Beam from Greninja, which is a heck of a lot of damage, and enough to kill nearly anything, including most resists when combined with the appropriate attack from Greninja. Dark Pulse is rejected since it's not powerful enough to get the snipes you'd want it for (most notably Slowking).

Lucario's Ground/Fire/Fighting weaknesses need to be covered, and many potentially viable Pokémon can do this - but only Talonflame can counter the specific threats that Lucario is terrible against: Scarf Darmanitan, Volcarona and Speed Boost Blaziken are the big ones. This Pokémon is rather underwhelming in the Maison - many of the fast threats you would want to use priority on (Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Manectric) resist it, its power is lacking for securing kills with its non-existent bulk even with Sharp Beak, and Flare Blitz can't even kill Sheer Cold Articuno unless you give it Life Orb. I'd advise against using Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles, unless you're using Mega Lucario and require it on your team because of that. In its defense, Tailwind can be very useful in some situations, and enables it to contribute something even with Zapdos and Thundurus looming over it and turning it into a smoldering turd. Max HP is standard fare for Maison, and absolutely required for it to be able to switch in into nasty attacks like Darmanitan Flare Blitz and not die to recoil after getting the kill.

You may think I'm underrating the Pokémon since it got this far in the Maison, but it really is every bit as bad as I say - check out these calcs:

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 139-165 (97.2 - 115.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Volcarona: 186-222 (96.8 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO)
252+ Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Articuno: 152-180 (77.1 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gourgeist-Average: 168-200 (97.6 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Leafeon: 132-156 (94.2 - 111.4%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 136-162 (92.5 - 110.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

I've seen Talonflame miss every single one of these kills during the streak, and it has been costly every time. It's a small miracle the streak hasn't ended because of it yet. If I had a Life Orb to spare, I'd give it to Talonflame in a heartbeat despite the recoil just to secure kills. It's pretty much the Wide Lens of Talonflame, without it you are gambling with Play Rough-like odds at best when it counts. Don't use Talonflame as a back-up in Maison Doubles - unless your team has a huge Volcarona/Darmanitan/ShucaBlaziken-shaped hole that needs to be filled and nothing else can do it, which this one does.

Garchomp is the best Dragon in Maison Doubles/Triples. It has immunity to Thunder Wave and Electric immunity, which are mandatory to have on any team that utilizes Mat Block Greninja, as it hates fast Electric attacks and Thunder Wave. Not much to say, other than if you run Mat Block Greninja, be it in Doubles or Triples, you want Garchomp. Life Orb is preferred for this team, as the enemies have to die before they KO the frail, weak Talonflame. Yache Berry would help a lot against Slowking and Slowbro and other Waters, but without Life Orb Garchomp would lack the damage it needs.

Mat Block Greninja destroys 90% of the Maison all by itself harder than any other (non-TR Aron) lead could. It's so powerful there's nearly no reason to run any other lead in Aron-less Maison Doubles - Mat Block puts Fake Out to shame, and it is also a potent offensive force with three STAB attacks including STAB Ice Beam and massive Speed on top of it.

The top two threats by far are Slowking and Slowbro, resisting Lucario while killing everyone with Blizzard/Ice Beam, Surf and Psychic under Trick Room. Slowbro can be killed with Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon, but Slowking is unkillable and will always set up TR. Slowbro is no less of a threat, though - if it shows up 3rd/4th and you don't have Greninja around to hit it, it is an even bigger menace than Slowking with Blizzard to destroy all and massive physical bulk to stop Talonflame and Garchomp from touching it. If the dreaded Slowking + Slowbro lead pair shows up on a Pokémon Ranger or Beauty Orla, it will probably be the end of the streak if the back-ups are anything decent.

Zoroark is another big threat, as it OHKOes Lucario while outspeeding it on Turn 1 and masquerading as something harmless.

Other nasties include the usual things Mat Block Greninja fears - Roller Skaters and all the terrible, terrible Electric Pokémon and Choice Scarf users they run, and Trick Room. More specifically to the Lucario/Talonflame/Garchomp set-up, bulky waters are unpleasant, though usually manageable if their names don't begin with Slow. Confuse Ray, Thunder Wave, Hypnosis and Teeter Dance are as threatening as ever, though Lucario does hit Regigigas nicely. Donphan is hell, as it is wildly unpredictable against Greninja/Lucario - I've seen it use Seed Bomb on Greninja, Stone Edge on Greninja (why?! Seed Bomb is stronger even if Stone Edge crits), and less commonly Earthquake and Fissure. You just never know what's coming when Donphan comes out, and it's absolutely miserable. On the bright side. once its Sturdy has popped and it's done claiming the Fissure kills, Talonflame has priority to put it down for good.



As always, I'll be wrapping this up once the streak is done. Topics to be covered include why Mega Charizard Y is outclassed by Mega Lucario as a Greninja partner, and some lucky near-loss battle videos.


Now, Mega Lucario's immediate firepower and coverage pales in comparison to the massive damage and Water disposal that MegaZard offers. In terms of Greninja+Partner firepower and raw coverage, I'd take Charizard/Greninja over Lucario/Greninja any day of the week - but the lead power isn't what makes the difference. Crucially, MegaZard's fatal weaknesses are much more difficult to cover with back-ups than those of Lucario - for MegaZard, Scarf Rock Slide aimed at it has the ability to demolish any would-be check that doesn't have priority or speed boosts of its own to punch through consecutive flinches. But therein lies the problem - the fourth Pokémon in a Greninja/Charizard/Garchomp team has too many roles to fill: it needs to do decent under TR (so Scarfers are out and passing up on Protect to use an Assault Vest is a tough call), it needs to be able to stay on the field with Chomp tossing EQ (so all but bulky Ground resists and Ground immunes are out), and it needs to be able to turn around a double flinch from ScarfSlide Braviary/Skarmory/Charizard/etc, and it needs to do OK against Fire types, especially all Entei and Scarf Typhlosion. Unfortunately, no Pokémon can do all of these things, and no matter what I ran in the fourth slot one of these things would screw me over sooner rather than later. Especially the ScarfSlide threat is extremely difficult to handle, but the others are no less difficult to find all in one Pokémon. Running something else than Garchomp as the 3rd isn't really possible either, as only its Ground-typing can cover the double Electric weakness Greninja/Charizard has.

In contrast, Lucario's weaknesses are more numerous, but more easily covered and not shared by Greninja for the most part - running a decent-ish Pokémon with priority in Talonflame that covers all the relevant threats and does OK under TR solves the "4th Pokémon problem" that plagued Charizard/Greninja, even if Lucario's individual hitting power and coverage is not as absurd as MegaZard's and you don't have the anti-freeze anti-water properties of Sun that are so good to have. Lucario also has very high Speed, which makes it slightly less dependent on Mat Block support than the base 100 MegaZard, especially against Veterans.



Now for battle videos:
#539: 4A4G-WWWW-WWW8-22FF vs. Gothitelle / Slowking / Slowbro / Trevenant
Extremely nasty opposition - it was only through luck of the draw and favorable moves by the AI that I was able to win this. If Gothitelle had Shadow Tag (I checked on Turn 1 and it didn't), I was almost certainly going to lose this battle.

#???: Forgot to save battle video vs. ??? / Thundurus / ??? / Latios
Not sure what happened here, other than that it ended up in a situation with Talonflame and Garchomp 2v2 against Specs Thundurus that's going to lock into Thunderbolt and an unknown set Latias. Against Latias2, I can win if I Tailwind while Chomp protects while if it's Latias1, the winning play would be to Brave Bird + Dragon Claw the thing. I go for Tailwind and win the coin-flip, dodging a bullet with sheer luck.

Looks like I forgot to save many of the close ones... well, damn. Still, there were a couple more, one battle in particular came down to needing a high damage roll on Slowbro from Garchomp (LO Dragon Claw is 26-34%, Slowbro had around slightly over 30%) to get the win, which it got.

Edit: ReptoAbysmal, Chef Carlos is indeed also nasty. I usually only think of Rangers when considering Water-type trainers, since there are six of them in the 100 and you immediately feel the fear when you see their sprite. Beauty Orla was fresh on my mind from battle 500, so I listed her, and of course Beauty Claire Rain Dance is always exciting for any team without copious Water resistance.
 
Last edited:

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
NoCheese has volunteered to take over management of this thread. I've moved some posts around to make him the OP.

Thanks NoCheese!
My pleasure! Note, however, that I'm traveling this week and so only have phone access. I'll have to hold off on updating until the 27th or so, but can then be more regular.
 

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