Battle Maison Discussion & Records

[cant say]

I like it! I would have left Gengar in against Registeel; since Registeel 4 can't hit Gengar, it would probably switch out eventually. Even if it doesn't, you could probably switch-stall pretty effectively, since I imagine Registeel would avoid using its EQ and Toxic PP against Gengar. Alternatively, you could have just brought in Kangaskhan and smashed its face in with Earthquake. You'd risk Double Team misses, but you should have a few turns to hit it.

Is Dazzling Gleam ONLY for Fighting-types? If so, Psychic hits a little bit harder against everything except Scrafty and Gallade (and does notably more damage against the numerous Fire/Fighting starters; then again, Psychic doesn't OHKO Blaziken, which sucks, but at least it can put it at the point where Flare Blitz recoil makes it self-KO). I can see Gleam being good against Dragons and Dark-types, though. See if there are any Dragon- or Dark-types that feel particularly threatening to you before deciding to switch to Psychic.

When I think about threats, the first thing that comes to mind is Regigigas. It can't OHKO Gengar (252 Atk EV 100 BP Payback doesn't OHKO Gengar, because Slow Start sucks), which makes it particularly likely to use jank like Confuse Ray, throwing a huge wrench in your strategy is Gengar KOs itself (though you can switch out after Confuse Ray, confident it won't use it again). I'd also be worried about Thunder Wave; Gengar is really fast, so lots of opponents will probably try to hit it with Thunder Wave. Parahax can stop you from getting off Destiny Bond, which is really bad.

With the Registeel fight I was worried that I would run out of Shadow Ball PP before I killed it which would force me to switch anyway (Sludge Bomb and Dazzling Gleam obviously don't work here). If I had switched in Kangaskhan I would still be gambling on being able to hit it with Earthquake so it could have just killed me in the process, so switching in Sharpedo and sacking it for a Destiny Bond kill seemed the safest option...

EDIT: wait now I get what you meant, switch out on the predicted Double Team / Protect turns then back in as it tries to Toxic / Earthquake. Hmmm even after that I would need to hope for consecutive hits against +6 evasion. After switch stalling Toxic and Earthquake (10PP each), Protect would be gone too and Double Team wouldn't be far off, meaning if I couldn't hit him he would just Struggle me to death (lefties keeping him alive). So I still think sacking Sharpedo was the best option also fastest, I get bored easily

Yeah sorry I should have elaborated a bit more on Dazzling Gleam, between it and Shadow Ball, Gengar gets pretty sweet neutral coverage with important SE hits on fighting, dark and dragon. Psychic is interesting, I'll definitely consider it but if I do swap some moves around I think t-bolt (or even Energy Ball) will go in first...

The good thing about Gengar holding a sash is that it nearly guarantees to get at least one move off before going down / getting statused. Hopefully in those situations Gengar has at least fired off some good damage, and even if I'm in a 2-3 situation because Gengar's Destiny Bond plan got disrupted, usually Sharpedo can come in and revenge kill, and then I'm in the same position I would have been in if I traded 1 for 1 with Destiny Bond anyway. Of course there may be something Gengar doesn't hurt very much which also can't be revenge killed so easily which would put me in trouble but I haven't thought of what that is or how I'll handle it yet lol

 

[VaporeonIce]

With the Registeel fight I was worried that I would run out of Shadow Ball PP before I killed it which would force me to switch anyway (Sludge Bomb and Dazzling Gleam obviously don't work here). If I had switched in Kangaskhan I would still be gambling on being able to hit it with Earthquake so it could have just killed me in the process, so switching in Sharpedo and sacking it for a Destiny Bond kill seemed the safest option...

EDIT: wait now I get what you meant, switch out on the predicted Double Team / Protect turns then back in as it tries to Toxic / Earthquake. Hmmm even after that I would need to hope for consecutive hits against +6 evasion. After switch stalling Toxic and Earthquake (10PP each), Protect would be gone too and Double Team wouldn't be far off, meaning if I couldn't hit him he would just Struggle me to death (lefties keeping him alive). So I still think sacking Sharpedo was the best option also fastest, I get bored easily

Yeah sorry I should have elaborated a bit more on Dazzling Gleam, between it and Shadow Ball, Gengar gets pretty sweet neutral coverage with important SE hits on fighting, dark and dragon. Psychic is interesting, I'll definitely consider it but if I do swap some moves around I think t-bolt (or even Energy Ball) will go in first...

The good thing about Gengar holding a sash is that it nearly guarantees to get at least one move off before going down / getting statused. Hopefully in those situations Gengar has at least fired off some good damage, and even if I'm in a 2-3 situation because Gengar's Destiny Bond plan got disrupted, usually Sharpedo can come in and revenge kill, and then I'm in the same position I would have been in if I traded 1 for 1 with Destiny Bond anyway. Of course there may be something Gengar doesn't hurt very much which also can't be revenge killed so easily which would put me in trouble but I haven't thought of what that is or how I'll handle it yet lol

Struggle inflicts 25% of the user's HP as damage, meaning Registeel could only use it five times. That actually is enough to KO Gengar, but it shouldn't do much of anything against Mega Khan. You just switch-stall out the Toxic + EQ PP, then bring in Mega Khan and spam Earthquake. You have at least five turns to take it down before it can even hit you with Struggle (but probably more, because I think it will spam Protect once it's already at +6 evasion, meaning it will have more Double Teams left when you bring in Khan). EQ is a 2HKO, and Registeel needs at least five turns of Lefties to get enough HP to survive a second hit. Basically, your odds of coming out unscathed are pretty high, and even it if does hit you, all it can do is inflict a little damage on Khan. Then the second Pokemon will be their best answer to Khan (e.g. if they had Terrakion, they'll send it out second), frequently allowing you to switch in Gengar for free on a Fighting attack and KO it with Destiny Bond.

 

[KevinAFCA]

Hit the 200 in Super Rotation Battles so got the Starf Berry :)

NC7G-WWWW-WWW9-DG3K Battle 197: Too Close For Comfort
NZUW-WWWW-WWW9-DG4X Battle 200: Grab the Berry

 

[EvilTaylor]

Hey there, I wanted to ask if unreleased stuff like the Mega Lati@s stones are usable or not, I'm not sure if they fall into hacked pokemon or not.

 

[NoCheese]

Hey there, I wanted to ask if unreleased stuff like the Mega Lati@s stones are usable or not, I'm not sure if they fall into hacked pokemon or not.

I'm afraid that unreleased items are not allowed if you'd like your streak to be listed on the record board.

 

[EvilTaylor]

Alright, thank you. Just got a hold of a good Latias with Megastone and figured I'd better ask before starting a new streak.

 

[BlakDragon]

I'm bad at video games. =[

I lost in the Battle Maison's Super Triple challenge at battle #478. Twas an unfortunate mix of bad hax and me playing bad.

5ZJG-WWWW-WWW9-EBAT

Used a copypasterino of R Inanimate's team. However my Gyarados has a different build: jolly with max speed and investment into Gyarados's HP to give it 175, to minimize sand's chip damage. The rest is in attack.

Should've used EQ at the end, bah.

ps Aerial Ace on the Tyranitar is so good! F*ck Iron Head. I actually could've won that if I had just hit EQ instead |:

 

[NoCheese]

Updated through here, so please let me know if I've missed anything.

A couple of small things: turskain, I know that your Cloyster / Gliscor / Greninja streak of 404 is shorter than your longest singles streak, and that you feel the team has some problems, but it's still a sweet streak. If you can link to a proof video, I'd love to post that streak, especially since there was some nice public theorymoning as you were putting the team together. (Or is the issue the silly 10 battle video cap? If that's it, given your sterling reputation and contributions, I have no problem leaderboarding that streak sans proof). Let me know! KevinAFCA, nice job getting to 200, and good luck as the streak continues. Ongoing streaks aren't leaderboard eligible (unless they get to 1000 wins), but definitely post when you are beaten and I'll get you on the rotations leaderboard.

Keep up the great streaks, all!

 

[Jumpman16]

i love all of you and haven't forgotten my roots

work blocks smogon (oh how far we've come) so i can't post/view at work so i kinda forgot about pokemon for a while

then i saw my record had been long broken and i was compelled to remember my love

i'm on page 65 now, and somewhere between battle 50 and 1253

thank you all for keeping this flame alive

 

[turskain]

Updated through here, so please let me know if I've missed anything.

A couple of small things: turskain, I know that your Cloyster / Gliscor / Greninja streak of 404 is shorter than your longest singles streak, and that you feel the team has some problems, but it's still a sweet streak. If you can link to a proof video, I'd love to post that streak, especially since there was some nice public theorymoning as you were putting the team together. (Or is the issue the silly 10 battle video cap? If that's it, given your sterling reputation and contributions, I have no problem leaderboarding that streak sans proof). Let me know! KevinAFCA, nice job getting to 200, and good luck as the streak continues. Ongoing streaks aren't leaderboard eligible (unless they get to 1000 wins), but definitely post when you are beaten and I'll get you on the rotations leaderboard.

Keep up the great streaks, all!

I angrily didn't save the battle video after the loss, and I don't want it posted - I figured out some possible improvements of the non-Empoleon variety, and the Empoleon idea failed miserably in practice. BoltBeam switch stalling just doesn't work, since the AI will sometimes randomly use IB on Empoleon instead of Thunderbolt (as neither deals much damage), which will OHKO Gliscor. If this happens with Dragonite/Aegislash switch stalling, for example, Nite still survives a random Stone Edge with Multiscale (and it only has 5PP), while Gliscor has no such luxury and dies right off when it inevitably happens over a long streak. I lost even before battle 50 to a Regice1 because of this. Other than BoltBeam stalling being unviable, Empoleon was actually pretty damn swell with Gliscor, but the BoltBeam stall was its entire point and without it, Starmie becomes a big problem (though it could be Icy Winded so Gliscor can outspeed it while taking 40% from Thunderbolt, but I wanted something more than that). It was also rather slow, though Empoleon and Gliscor together could stall out a lot more things than just Gliscor alone to allow Cloyster to sweep, and with practically zero cost if Empoleon does it due to its high PP and access to Rest.

I broke my previous Singles record with a non-Gliscor team, which I'll post when the time comes - hopefully not before a week or two from now. 1253 and beyond looks pretty hard to break, though. I'll also do a write-up on the Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja team and possible improvements to it with it, even if I don't submit that streak.

Edit: to clarify, the reason I don't intend to submit the previous Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja streak is that:
1) I can improve the team
2) I intend to do a second run with Cloyster/Gliscor - maybe in ORAS since I need a break from Singles after this current streak is done and there's still the Triples streak that needs to be finished
3) I didn't save the battle video, for reasons 1) and 2) and misplay-induced frustration

 

[SimicCombine]

Finally made a decent change to my Triples team by tweaking Talonflame. I took NoCheese's suggestion for HP EVs over speed after doing the numbers and figuring out that getting outsped by max speed Cobalion outside of Tailwind (or in the rare instance that Moltres1 sets it up, which only happened once) will be relevant much less often than the extra Brave Bird Talonflame will occasionally be able to fire off.

The other change I made was to replace Protect (which I never used) with Quick Guard as an anti-Fake Out measure. Even against Water types, I usually just let Talonflame eat the Surf so I can bring in Rotom for the sure kill. It also gives me another play against Fake Out leads instead of just praying that Talonflame doesn't get targeted. Instead of Tailwind with Talonflame, Protect with Blastoise, and Mat Block with Greninja, Quick Guard/Water Spout/Mat Block guarantees protection for the team while allowing Shiftry4's Focus Sash to be broken, among other things. Turn 2 I would expect Blastoise to use Protect, Talonflame to get Tailwind up, and Greninja to pick something off. Quick Guard also has utility against Sucker Punch, which has the annoying tendency to target Blastoise and weaken its Water Spouts or just revenge kill Greninja.

I've only done about ten battles with this change and it was only relevant so far for a couple of last-mon Sucker Punch users that Talonflame could 1HKO anyway, but I'm interested to see how it works out. Theorymon thoughts?

Edit: the rest of the team is here, and the Talonflame set would be:
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Adamant, Gale Wings
252 HP/252 Att/4 Spe
-Tailwind
-Quick Guard
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz

 

[turskain]

Finally made a decent change to my Triples team by tweaking Talonflame. I took NoCheese's suggestion for HP EVs over speed after doing the numbers and figuring out that getting outsped by max speed Cobalion outside of Tailwind (or in the rare instance that Moltres1 sets it up, which only happened once) will be relevant much less often than the extra Brave Bird Talonflame will occasionally be able to fire off.

The other change I made was to replace Protect (which I never used) with Quick Guard as an anti-Fake Out measure. Even against Water types, I usually just let Talonflame eat the Surf so I can bring in Rotom for the sure kill. It also gives me another play against Fake Out leads instead of just praying that Talonflame doesn't get targeted. Instead of Tailwind with Talonflame, Protect with Blastoise, and Mat Block with Greninja, Quick Guard/Water Spout/Mat Block guarantees protection for the team while allowing Shiftry4's Focus Sash to be broken, among other things. Turn 2 I would expect Blastoise to use Protect, Talonflame to get Tailwind up, and Greninja to pick something off. Quick Guard also has utility against Sucker Punch, which has the annoying tendency to target Blastoise and weaken its Water Spouts or just revenge kill Greninja.

I've only done about ten battles with this change and it was only relevant so far for a couple of last-mon Sucker Punch users that Talonflame could 1HKO anyway, but I'm interested to see how it works out. Theorymon thoughts?

Edit: the rest of the team is here, and the Talonflame set would be:
Talonflame @ Sky Plate
Adamant, Gale Wings
252 HP/252 Att/4 Spe
-Tailwind
-Quick Guard
-Brave Bird
-Flare Blitz

I'm a bit suspicious of the value of Quick Guard. If Talonflame's using Quick Guard to avoid Fake Out distrupting Tailwind, it's still not using Tailwind, so Quick Guard mostly serves to ensure that Mat Block and Water Spout go off against Fake Out (and if Talonflame got Fake Outed while trying to use Tailwind, those two would still be going off); but it still doesn't prevent Crobat, Electrode and others from distrupting Mat Block. A bit of extra security on Mat Block can't hurt for sure, but is it worth the cost of losing Protect?

I've found Protect extremely useful on Talonflame in both Doubles and Triples. Being able to grab free turns from anything with Stone Edge or Rock Slide with Protect is very nice. Talonflame naturally turns into attractive low-HP bait just by taking a hit or using Brave Bird, making Protect twice as useful, even without Rock attacks to target it.

If you're open to suggestions for other team members, I think Wide Lens on Rotom-W is a waste of an item slot - Hydro Pump is still a big gamble (and HP Water is always preferred over it anyway, if the pain of breeding for it is an option), and counteracting BrightPowder seems useless against top BrightPowder/Lax Incense threats. What are Timid Rotom-W's unboosted hits going to do to Zapdos2 (HP/SDef, Roost), or Lati@s2 (HP/Def, Calm Mind and Recover), or Regigigas1 (Double Team, the most annoying Pokémon in the Maison)? Its attacks might be 100% accurate, but if you're looking at a 4HKO at best, all that accuracy is somewhat wasted and you still depend heavily on bigger, less accurate hits from Life Orb Garchomp and the rest of your team to actually KO them.

In its place, Choice Specs is my preferred option for Triples Rotom-W after using it with Lucario/Greninja, especially if you have Tailwind support already. If being Choice-locked is no good, even a Magnet to boost the move you use 95% of the time in Thunderbolt would beat Wide Lens most of the time. Or you could run Sitrus Berry for some extra survivability. Also, since you're running Tailwind, I don't see a reason to run Timid over Modest; max Speed Modest Rotom-W already hits 138 Speed, which is more than enough to outspeed the entire Maison under Tailwind.

 

[Lumari]

The boys are back in town again! I took a new spin on Multis today, using the same team as before, and I broke my old record. Not by a wide margin and it's still not spectacular, but it should get me a few spots higher on the leaderboard, so why the hell not post it :)
posting a 59 win streak in Super Multi with AI. Losing battle: FPWW-WWWW-WWW9-EZFK

team of dragons - shamelessly copied from my previous post

my lead

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/19/19/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Rock Slide
-Protect

my backup

Nemo (Gyarados) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate -> Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/X/31/31 (well actually one defensive IV is missing but I forgot to check which and my 3DS is turned off rn, will correct whenever)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Dragon Dance

AI lead:

Charizard @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
Nature: Mild (assuming it's the AI's Charizard3)
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 I guess
EVs: 170 Atk / 170 SpA / 170 Spe (again, assuming it's Charizard3)
-Heat Wave
-Air Slash
-Rock Slide
-Crunch

AI backup:

Raikou @ Air Balloon
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Timid (assuming it's Raikou3)
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31 I guess
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe (assuming Raikou3)
-Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Volt Switch (lol useless for a backup)
-Protect

Garchomp was a no-brainer for Earthquake spam and breaking down opponents early-game. For my backup, I wanted a hard-hitting mega that was not weak to ice and difficult to take down, and then it dawned to me: Mega Gyarados. Stupid attacking power and stupid bulk bolstered by Intimidate, only a little slow but that could be remedied by Dragon Dance. I'm naturally very cautious about using setup moves in Doubles, but considering Gyarados's bulk and his juggling with defensive typings I figured he could pull it off. I needed a little practice to learn to only set up if it was really, really safe (on my first attempt with Gyarados I lost in the early 20s because I set up on an Eelektross. I would have survived its attack, but I was double targeted, so ya.) As for its moveset: Waterfall, (Mold Breaker) Earthquake, and Dragon Dance are mandatory; the last slot was a toss-up between Ice Fang, Return, and Protect. I didn't have room for Protect because I needed something to hit Grass-types and flying Dragons, and considering I would be using the move in this slot solely for these opponents, I saw no reason to choose Return over Ice Fang.
My partners are pretty alright. Charizard's Scarf eases prediction massively, and it usually locks itself into Heat Wave. Occasionally it chooses a different move, but Air Slash and Crunch still work out pretty well at that very moment (also considering he usually chooses Crunch against Psychics/Hex Maniacs :p); however, you're gonna have a bad time if he picks Rock Slide, because it's extremely weak, not to mention Heat Wave would still have been better in most of these situations in terms of raw damage output. As far as AI partners go, I think Charizard is one of the more reliable ones. Raikou is a little worse, he uses Protect on completely random occasions, and can and will use it even if it means the death of his partner >.> he also tends to steal kills from his partner, but that's something all AI partners do as far as I've heard. However, he hits pretty hard and knows his type chart, so he's still pretty usable.

I lost against an... opportunistic opponent. I faced a Veteran and a random trainer of a class I forgot, they sent out Zapdos and Donphan. I saw no reason why Charizard wouldn't click Heat Wave, and because Gyarados hates Zapdos for obvious reasons, I figured it was most important to kill him first. So Charizard dented both foes with Heat Wave and Garchomp killed Zapdos with Dragon Claw; Donphan then killed Charizard with Stone Edge. Out came Raikou, the Veteran sent out Regirock. Donphan's Quick Claw went off, but it didn't matter, as Raikou had used Protect. Garchomp dented both foes with Earthquake; Regirock used Rock Polish. The next turn was awkward; I knew Regirock was gonna attack first, possibly popping Raikou's Balloon, but I had to use Earthquake in order to fell both opponents (neither was in Raikou's KO range). So I clicked Earthquake, and Regirock used... Explosion, killing itself and Donphan, while leaving Garchomp and Raikou with little health. Raikou fired off a Thunderbolt (or a Shadow Ball, w/e, don't really recall) into the void, only to fall to Garchomp's Earthquake. Ugh. Could've been smarter to just focus on killing Donphan (it probably was lol). Anyway, two against one should be doable, right? Out came... OHKO Walrein. Not ideal. However, two Rock Slides from Garchomp or one Rock Slide from Garchomp and two Earthquakes from Gyarados kill that thing, so I still could win, as long as he didn't land both of his first two OHKO moves. Guess what happened.
Anyway, kind of an annoying loss (only my first one against this Walrein actually!), but it mostly came down to an awkward matchup (this team really doesn't like Donphan as well) and mediocre play, so it's alright. That means the bar still isn't that high if I ever feel like trying again ;)

As for my current endeavours, my singles streak is still going. Will post when I lose, probably later rather than sooner though because I'm so utterly sick of the sight of my team right now (it's quite unimaginative and poorly built, and that's an understatement, but w/e) and I'm not really continuing it atm. In the mean time, aside from having done this streak, I'm toying around a little in Platinum's frontier (probably gonna try the tower with suizorus-beta lol, i.e. salamence over haxorus, now training them, should be interesting to see how that works out.) I've also built a new sexy Triples team (inspired by an idea recently posted here) that I've been casually playing, but I'm only at (lol) 75 so I can't post it yet :( in any case, it doesn't hit hard (has to rely on coverage for the most part), but it's nimble af and features a shitmon cool but as of yet unused pokemon on the leaderboards, so I really hope I can at least break my personal best ^_^

my singles streak is now... somewhere in the 200s. it'll make it to the leaderboards i promise.

PS What's so special about 1253 specifically? Saw that popping up a few times on this page..

 

[SimicCombine]

I'm a bit suspicious of the value of Quick Guard. If Talonflame's using Quick Guard to avoid Fake Out distrupting Tailwind, it's still not using Tailwind, so Quick Guard mostly serves to ensure that Mat Block and Water Spout go off against Fake Out (and if Talonflame got Fake Outed while trying to use Tailwind, those two would still be going off); but it still doesn't prevent Crobat, Electrode and others from distrupting Mat Block. A bit of extra security on Mat Block can't hurt for sure, but is it worth the cost of losing Protect?
Crobat, Electrode, et al can disrupt Mat Block (although sash helps a lot there), but turn 1 I want to Tailwind up anyways, which they can't block. The problem with Fake Out is that each option I have has the potential to turn bad. If I make the standard play, Greninja can get hit with Fake Out, and I could lose Blastoise. If I protect with Blastoise and Talonflame gets hit, I still have to set up Tailwind against a full health team, and I can't protect again with Blastoise, so it's vulnerable. With Quick Guard, my team is undamaged, Blastoise gets off a Water Spout, and can freely Protect while I set up Tailwind. If Greninja picks off either the middle or the right Pokemon, the worst-case result it Tailwind up, dead Talonflame, 1 HP Greninja, and a fully healthy Blastoise against 2 weakened Pokemon and one full-health Pokemon. I think that's a better scenario than dealing with Fake Out with just Protect. The supporting cast's role is to protect Blastoise, get Tailwind up, and make sure (early game) Water Spout 2HKOs or (late game) Water Spout plus an attack KOs.

I've found Protect extremely useful on Talonflame in both Doubles and Triples. Being able to grab free turns from anything with Stone Edge or Rock Slide with Protect is very nice. Talonflame naturally turns into attractive low-HP bait just by taking a hit or using Brave Bird, making Protect twice as useful, even without Rock attacks to target it.
Most rock-type attack users are either Rock, Ground, or Fighting, which either fall to Water Spout or are taken out by Brave Bird. The only other relevant rock-type is Aerodactyl4, in which case I would much rather have Tailwind up (and it's something Blastoise can take out without help so it's that much easier to KO everything and win turn 2.)

If you're open to suggestions for other team members, I think Wide Lens on Rotom-W is a waste of an item slot - Hydro Pump is still a big gamble (and HP Water is always preferred over it anyway, if the pain of breeding for it is an option), and counteracting BrightPowder seems useless against top BrightPowder/Lax Incense threats. What are Timid Rotom-W's unboosted hits going to do to Zapdos2 (HP/SDef, Roost), or Lati@s2 (HP/Def, Calm Mind and Recover), or Regigigas1 (Double Team, the most annoying Pokémon in the Maison)? Its attacks might be 100% accurate, but if you're looking at a 4HKO at best, all that is somewhat wasted and you still depend heavily on bigger, less accurate hits from Life Orb Garchomp and the rest of your team to actually KO them.

In its place, Choice Specs is my preferred option for Triples Rotom-W after using it with Lucario/Greninja, especially if you have Tailwind support already. If being Choice-locked is no good, even a Magnet to boost the move you use 95% of the time in Thunderbolt would beat Wide Lens most of the time. Or you could run Sitrus Berry for some extra survivability. Also, since you're running Tailwind, I don't see a reason to run Timid over Modest; max Speed Modest Rotom-W already hits 138 Speed, which is more than enough to outspeed the entire Maison under Tailwind.
Rotom actually uses Dark Pulse the most often to hit the far opponent. It also does good damage to Cresselia, Lati@s, and can hunt for flinches against Blissey. Water Spout on Zapdos only needs a little bit of help to secure the 2HKO on Zapdos2. Choice Specs would force me to choose between the power of Thunderbolt and the versatility of Dark Pulse hitting the far Pokemon. Since I really want a backup which can hit all three Pokemon, eventually I'll make the wrong decision and lose.
As a member of the second wave, I have to prepare for the times when Tailwind isn't up. In addition, since Rotom usually replaces Talonflame, once Tailwind is down, it's down. It's the same reason I run Jolly Garchomp over Adamant.

Comments in bold

 

[turskain]

Comments in bold

You make a good case for Quick Guard. A Tailwind+Mat Block set-up seems quite different from the goodstuffs Mat Block strategy I'm used to, so I didn't realize how important the set-up was.

If Talonflame dies while setting up Tailwind and Rock users are killed by Spout, I can definitely see Protect bait being less valuable.

Being Choice-locked can indeed backfire, but generally I find the power very much worth it. I used Dark Pulse Rotom-W with the Heliolisk team (with a 143-SAtk Rotom-W), and it dealt so little damage I seldom got real use out of the move, outside the occasional flinch. If it hits for super-effective, it's good, but a neutral non-STAB attack with 80 BP off of 157 SAtk without boosts is really pitiful. I think Choice Specs is worthwhile, especially if Dark Pulse is your most used attack - with Specs, its unimpressive 80 BP neutral damage becomes decent enough to actually dent things. There's the risk of being locked into an unoptimal move, sure, but it's not that big of a risk as Thunderbolt and Dark Pulse are both moves with very good neutral coverage. Only Ground-types really punish locking into Thunderbolt and Grass-types are generally not relevant, and Dark Pulse is like Dark Pulse on Greninja - it hits almost anything for a decent amount.

Jolly Chomp over Adamant makes sense, but the Timid bump for Rotom-W is nowhere near as useful. Case in point:

150 - Articuno 3, Heracross (3,4), Hydreigon 1, Sawk 3, Suicune 4
149 - Infernape 2, Skuntank 3
148 - Magmortar (3,4)
147 - Arcanine (1,2), Electivire 3, Gliscor 1, Houndoom 1, Jynx (2,3), Leafeon 1, Yanmega (3,4)
146 - Gyarados 3
145 - Altaria 3, Chandelure 2, Drifblim 3, Gallade (1,2,4), Gardevoir (1,2,3), Medicham (2,3), Togekiss 3, Venusaur 3
142 - Greninja 1, Kangaskhan 1, ALL Klinklang, Lucario 1, Moltres (1,2), Porygon-Z (1,2), Roserade 2
141 - Charizard 1, Salamence 2
140 - Sceptile 4
139 - Absol (3,4), Hydreigon 2
138 - Hawlucha 2, Haxorus 2, Seismitoad (3,4)

Timid Rotom-W is 151, Modest is 138. There just aren't many things in this range that would be useful to outspeed - Moltres1 (Tailwind) is the only notable threat, and a Rotom-W that's not in the lead won't be KOing it to stop a possible Tailwind anyway. Articuno3 might set up Reflect, but that's a pretty far-fetched scenario to look out for.

 

[KevinAFCA]

Small update, currently at 281 wins.
This match is a perfect example of how brain-dead the AI is, just as turskain stated

YLAW-WWWW-WWW9-ETRY Battle 281: Yeah man, keep setting up... For all i care...

 

[Eppie]

''Hall of fame''

Battle Maison Super Doubles
Battle #1700; Scientist Jane, WF7W-WWWW-WWW9-LWBV

Vs.

Previous record (765, Dusclops / Aron / Mega Kangaskhan / Conkeldurr)
Previous record (360, Dusclops / Smeargle / Aegislash / Aron)

_____

Dusclops (F) @ Eviolite*
Nature: Relaxed
Trait: Frisk
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/00
EVs: 252 HP/126 Def/132 Sp.Def
Lv. 50 stats: 147/90/273/71/250/27
Moveset: Trick Room/Foresight/Night Shade/Brick Break

I brought my ''standard'' Dusclops for this run, so no shiny sparkles here.

Aron (M) @ Berry Juice
Nature: Adamant
Trait: Sturdy
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: Zero
Lv. 1 stats: 12/6/7/4/6/5
Moveset: Protect/Endeavor/Swagger/Toxic

Same Aron.

____________________________________

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Nature: Brave
Trait: Scrappy/Parental Bond
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/00
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Sp.Def
Lv. 50 (mega) stats: 212/194/120/80/121/94
Moveset: Fake Out/Double-Edge/Sucker Punch/Rock Slide

I bred a new Kangaskhan in a Level Ball with 0 Speed IV's. Still no ''magic IV number'' but it's better than 31.

Conkeldurr (M) @ Assault Vest*
Nature: Brave
Trait: Iron Fist
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/00
EVs: 108 HP/252 Atk/6 Def/144 Sp.Def
Lv. 50 stats: 194/211/116/75/154/45
Moveset: Drain Punch/Knock Off/Ice Punch/Mach Punch

Same Conkeldurr.

_____

Battle #454; Veteran Sybil, RVQG-WWWW-WWW9-F8EE

Vs.

A 14-turn battle with a lot of hax and misplays.

Battle #1001; Psychic Haskell, WS2G-WWWW-WWW9-EV89

Vs.

Video proof of reaching 1001 straight wins in Doubles.

Battle #1200; Pokémon Breeder Tad, H7NW-WWWW-WWW9-G659

Vs.

Video proof of reaching 1200 straight wins in Doubles.

Battle #1700; Scientist Jane, WF7W-WWWW-WWW9-LWBV

Vs.

Video proof of reaching 1700 straight wins in Doubles.


Additional team and threats information.

 

[turskain]

Battle #454; Veteran Sybil, RVQG-WWWW-WWW9-F8EE

Vs.

A 14-turn battle with a lot of hax and misplays.

That was a great battle, even with all the hax and misplays. After how horribly the first few turns went, I'm impressed you still managed to pull out the win. And even some parting hax on the AI's dying breath on the last turn. 10/10, easily the best battle video I've seen in this thread.

I'm at 910 wins in Singles myself right now - still a far cry from Jumpman's teased 1253+, but it's looking quite decent.

 

[Eppie]

That was a great battle, even with all the hax and misplays. After how horribly the first few turns went, I'm impressed you still managed to pull out the win. And even some parting hax on the AI's dying breath on the last turn. 10/10, easily the best battle video I've seen in this thread.

I'm at 910 wins in Singles myself right now - still a far cry from Jumpman's teased 1253+, but it's looking quite decent.

Thanks Turskain!
I never really thought I'd win that battle 454, and if I didn't I'm unaware if I would try again immediately, aiming for 1000+.

It looks like someone else is going to get himself a 1000+ streak this weekend too, good job ;).

 

[KevinAFCA]

Streak is over, lost at Battle 311 vs Terrakion/Heatran/Articuno/Regice
Bad match-up and bad play made it impossible to win for me.
No chance for Klefki to set up due Hail and super effective moves from Heatran and Terrakion. And a huge misplay that i had forgotten Klefki did protect already before i switched to other pokes, so it did not work xD
Gengar could not do shit, and did not knew Heatran had Dark Pulse otherwise i would Destiny Bond that turn.
D-Nite died immediatly the turn i wanted to set up,
Khan only could fake out.

Anyway, it was fun while it lasted, now let's dive into triple battle.

7YAG-WWWW-WWW9-FMPH Battle 311: Well fuck xD

 

[turskain]

Streak is over, lost at Battle 311 vs Terrakion/Heatran/Articuno/Regice
Bad match-up and bad play made it impossible to win for me.
No chance for Klefki to set up due Hail and super effective moves from Heatran and Terrakion. And a huge misplay that i had forgotten Klefki did protect already before i switched to other pokes, so it did not work xD
Gengar could not do shit, and did not knew Heatran had Dark Pulse otherwise i would Destiny Bond that turn.
D-Nite died immediatly the turn i wanted to set up,
Khan only could fake out.

Anyway, it was fun while it lasted, now let's dive into triple battle.

7YAG-WWWW-WWW9-FMPH Battle 311: Well fuck xD

That's a pretty bad match-up indeed. The possible winning play might've been going for Substitute on Dragonite on Turn 1 and getting a DD behind it on anything except Blizzard or Flash Cannon - if one of those comes, then you're in KO range for Terrakion's Stone Edge, which is not good. Hail, Lava Plume, and a faster hit from Terrakion all get you a sub. In the battle video, the first turn was EQ, which is a free turn for Nite. It was a hard battle for Klefki for sure - though I can't do a mock battle on it since the Dragonite I used no longer has Substitute.

Edit: wait, Lava Plume actually breaks Sub most of the time, and if it was Heatran2 (Overheat), it would break the sub even harder. So Sub on Nite might not have been as good as I thought. Articuno bringing Hail with those kind of teammates is definitely a job for Dragonite, though, and worth taking the chance.

Congratulations on the streak. It's good to see someone having success with Klefki.

 

[CrimsonArenz]

I think this is my first post on Smogon lol



I'm going to be honest and straight up say that I don't remember every set I used through my runs. Sorry if I'm vague at my sets but it's everything I can remember :(

Singles - A combination of M-Kanga, Aegislash (for priority), Azumarrill (priority), Volcarona (underrated 'mon at the Maison IMO), Alakazam, Dragonite (not completely sure), M-Mawile and Goodra (lol). I think some of my 'mons only had 2-3 perfect IVs because I did this one pre-Bank.
Here's the video where I lost my streak at 68: PXMW-WWWW-WWW9-FR45

Doubles - This exact team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-52#post-5250545
Beating the Battle Chatelaine: 4P2W-WWWW-WWW9-FR3B
Losing my streak at 164: FT6G-WWWW-WWW9-FR32 (did a horrible mistake, I should have attacked the Heatran with Machamp because it completely walls M-Mawile and Cresselia)

Triples - This exact team: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-27#post-5026762

Rotation - I'm not completely sure but I think I used Drought Ninetails, DD Dragonite, M-Blaziken and some priority user (Aegislash? Can't remember tbh). Also some of my 'mons only had 2-3 perfect IVs because it was pre-Bank.

Multi - Oh man. This was a huge, HUGE pain in the ass. First I tried using M-Kanga and Dragonite with a pretty solid AI partner (Braviary [3] and Porygon 2 [3]) but it didn't end up so well. Then I tried with that same AI partner but with Mat Block Greninja and M-Kanga and failed.
My brother has his own 3DS so we tried it together. I was tired of the AI. We lead up with Mat Block Greninja and M-Charizard Y, with M-Kanga and Garchomp in the back. Things ran pretty smoothly until in two different runs we had connection errrors. I was VERY pissed off.
Then I tried M-Charizard Y and Garchomp with a different AI partner (Hydreigon [3] and Exeggutor [I'm not even sure which set it was, it died very quickly to Fire/Bug attacks]). I kept losing and felt very frustrated.
Then I tried chaging the order of my 'mons (Garchomp first and M-Charizard Y in the back) and some moves and try again with an AI partner (Braviary [3] and Porygon 2 [3]) and finally did it after months of trying :]]]]

These were my good friends that paired well with the AI partner:

DrSmogon (Garchomp) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect

[Since my partner led with Braviary, I was pretty free to spam Earthquake. Yes, I know it's missing 4 EVs in HP/Def/SpDef/whatever. I think a Lum Berry would also be helpful for Will-Os and Hypnosis Gengar.]

Charizard (M) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Solar Beam
- Protect
- Focus Blast

[Used to have Air Slash instead of Focus Blast but I remembered my horrible experience with Heatran. Yes, it has 252 EVs in Attack...lol]

Now I'm going to try to get that Starf Berry (200 wins) with this team http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-60#post-5358889 :]

(Sorry for my bad english but it is not my first language)

 

[cant say]

So I played around with double Destiny Bond for a while but it didn't work. There are times where you are forced to spam Destiny Bond right from the start against the first two Pokemon which leaves you in a 1v1 situation, and of course there is nothing that will win all the time 1v1. I tried Kangaskhan which got beaten by fighting types and Dragonite which lost to ice types (annoyingly to Beartic3 early in one attempt). After a lot of theorymoning I gave up, however I loved Sharpedo as a standalone Pokemon so I wanted to build a team with him which brought me to what I'm rolling with now:

Sharpedo @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Adamant Nature
6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Destiny Bond
- Earthquake

Pretty cool, consistent Pokemon that I would recommend to any newbies trying to speed through the Maison. He can usually 2hko the lead and then spam Destiny Bond to take out the second. I added Earthquake to the set over Protect as it gives good coverage against Electric types and gives a non-contact option against things like Flame Body, Static and Poison Touch that could mess up your Destiny Bond plans, because if you die from status or weather Destiny Bond does not KO the opponent. In an ideal circumstance, Sharpedo has taken out the first two Pokemon which leaves you with two of yours against their one. Worse case is you've had to sack Sharpedo to their lead which leaves you at 2-2, this is where I had to think of teammates...

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
Modest Nature
6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
- Dragon Pulse
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Adamant Nature
196 HP / 252 Atk / 28 Def / 28 SpD / 6 Spd
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
(Credit to Artic for the build)

I read somewhere that between the two of them, Hydreigon and Aegislash resist every type so I figured if I'm in my best case scenario (besides a Sharpdeo sweep lol) where my 2 are against their 1, I send out Hydreigon, if he is threatened by the opponent (dragon it can't ohko, fairy, fighting, ice or bug) then I can easily switch in Aegislash to either set up or just get in some damage so Hydreigon can revenge kill it. Aegislash is also a great switch in for Sharpedo when it's facing a lead it either can't take out / threatens the Destiny Bond plan, or fighting / grass types that can't hurt Aegislash. Most games either go to plan with a Sharpedo sweep / Destiny Bond second kill, or switching in Aegislash early and just setting up with him and sweeping with Shadow Sneak, Hydeigon doesn't see nearly as much action as I thought it would.

Annoyingly I just lost in the 60s or something to Tourist Ibiza who lead with Honchkrow4. I was worried about Thunder Wave + Sucker Punch messing up my Destiny Bond so for some reason I switched in Aegislash. Aegi got t-waved but I figured I could use King's Shield on the Night Slash to lower his attack and maybe set up, except Honchkcrow kept going for Sucker Punch (higher base power I guess) so I went for the Swords Dance instead but then I get smashed by Night Slash. I try King's Shield again but I'm fully paralyzed... Sharpedo goes out and Waterfalls it to low health and Drill Peck (no t-wave this time) breaks my sash, I expect Sucker Punch here to pick me off so I Destiny Bond but get taken out by Drill Peck. It's all up to Hydreigon in a 1v2 fight, out comes Rhyperior4 (Hammer Arm) but I get lucky with an Earth Power crit. Next is Heracross and I get Megahorned to death... Several Mock battles later has taught me to keep in Sharpedo as Waterfall is a 2hko, and even if I get t-waved my Sash is still intact so I just need to hope I'm not fully paralyzed the next turn as I KO the Honchkrow. I could have easily switch-stalled both Rhyperior and Heracross out of their Earthquake + Megahorn/Hammer Arm PP to set up with Aegislash. It was my first run with the team and my experience with both Hydreigon and Aegislash is pretty limited so I'm still getting used to them. Hopefully I can at least come up with a somewhat noteworthy streak instead of these crappy less-than-100 ones I've been posting recently...

 

[Eppie]

Battle #1200; Pokémon Breeder Tad, H7NW-WWWW-WWW9-G659

Vs.

 

[turskain]

Posting an ongoing streak of 1000 wins in Super Singles.

Battle video: #1000 - 7EDW-WWWW-WWW9-G89P vs. Ambipom/Armaldo/Weezing (the previous battle #529 Singles video was removed in its place) removed
Battle video: #1011 - ZZ4G-WWWW-WWW9-GZBY vs. Weezing/Nidoqueen/Volcarona - the loss

#1011 Recap: lead Weezing, +1 Outrage to 2HKO while Lum is broken. Dragonite is confused, switch out to Aegislash - switch Nite back in on Earthquake, try to set up +1 again - get Dragon Tailed out instantly. Greninja comes out, and you could argue attacking was a misplay - but it might use either EQ or Poison Jab, and as Nite is Lum-less and damaged, it would rather not take that, and Aegislash wouldn't enjoy EQ, so attacking was the "safe" play. Ice Beam was the wrong move to choose, though, Scald is still a KO and being a Water-type is generally safer than being an Ice-type... I paid the price for carelessely locking into Ice Beam - though Volcarona has come in on Ice/Grass Greninja many more times in the run, and I never lost to it before, thanks to having a more intact Dragonite (usually, Dragonite is unscathed if Greninja is killing the AI lead with Ice Beam or Grass Knot and inviting Volcarona) and not misplaying.



The team is Dragonite/Aegislash/Greninja V2. A quick summary of the relatively large (500-more-wins-and-counting large, at least) changes:
-Scald on Greninja instead of Surf
-All Pokémon re-EV'd
-Aegislash re-bred to hit 79 Speed
-Greninja's item changed to Choice Specs, with a new EV spread to take advantage of it

Dragonite @ Lum Berry ** Nosedrip
Ability: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 52 HP, 252 Atk, 12 Def, 4 SDef, 188 Spe
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Dragon Dance

EV Notes

The Speed EVs hit 124 Speed, enough to outspeed Tyrantrum4 by 1 point. It's the same spread I used in Rotations - it is also viable here, though for different reasons. Greninja is cut to 184 from 191; the same things that make this possible also enable Dragonite to be cut to 124 (186 at +1).

Cherry-picked calcs - the cut isn't big, but it does make a difference:
252+ Atk Rhyperior Rock Slide vs. 52 HP / 12 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 76-91 (43.9 - 52.6%)
252+ SpA Porygon2 Ice Beam vs. 52 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite on a critical hit: 146-174 (84.3 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Aegislash @ Leftovers ** Repulsor
Ability: Stance Change
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 27 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Stats: 79 Speed
- King's Shield (seems like I mistakenly called it King's Guard in the V1 write-up, which I copy-pasted as the template)
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword

EV and IV/Nature Notes

I previously used a dumb spread that wasn't 252/252. I've learned my lesson - there are cases where spreading out makes sense, and cases where it doesn't. Aegislash in the Maison is very much the prime example of a Pokémon you should never stray from 252/252 with; there simply is no better way to EV this thing for the Maison. The Aegislash used here is imperfect - a Speed IV of 28 or 29 would give it 79 Speed without needing Speed EVs. Since the IV is only 27, 4 Speed EVs are needed to hit the Speed target.

Why 79 Speed? It avoids tying with 80-Speeders, is preferable to 81 Speed, and stomps 58 Speed in Singles in general.

Adamant 79 Speed vs Brave 58 Speed analysis

First, here are the speed tiers to watch when considering what Speed you want for Aegislash in the Maison:

80 - Abomasnow (1,2), Empoleon (1,2,4), Lapras (2,3,4), Magnezone (1,3,4), Swampert (2,3,4), ALL Sylveon, Wailord (3,4), ALL Weezing, ALL Whiscash
79 - Adamant Aegislash (79 Speed, imperfect Speed IV)
78 - ALL Aurorus, Scrafty (1,3,4)
77 - Lickilicky 1, Mr. Mime 2
76 - Emboar 2, Flareon 3, Scizor (1,3), Torterra (1,3,4), Trevenant (1,2,3), Vaporeon 1
75 - Ampharos (1,3), ALL Blissey, Bouffalant (1,3,4), Exeggutor 3, Golurk (1,3), Machamp 4, Ursaring (1,3,4)
72 - Abomasnow (3,4), Empoleon 3, Lapras 1, Magnezone 2, Swampert 1, Tyranitar 4, Wailord 1
70 - Aggron (1,3), Beartic (2,3), Carbink (1,2), Donphan (2,4), Eelektross (2,4), Hariyama (2,4), Lickilicky (2,3,4), Muk (2,4), Rampardos (1,4), Regice (1,3,4), Regirock (1,2,3), Registeel (1,3,4), Tangrowth (1,3,4), Vileplume (2,3)
68 - ALL Druddigon
67 - Ampharos (2,4), Bouffalant 2, Exeggutor (2,4), Golurk 2, Hippowdon (1,2,3), Machamp (1,2)
65 - Armaldo (3,4), Conkeldurr (1,3), Dusknoir 1, Golem 1, Granbull 2, Marowak 1, Throh (1,3)
63 - Aggron (2,4), Beartic 1, Carbink 4, Cradily 1, Donphan (1,3), Eelektross (1,3), Hariyama (1,3), Muk (1,3)
60 - Forretress (1,2,4), Hippowdon 4, ALL Probopass, Rhyperior 3, Vespiquen 3, Regigigas (1,3,4) during Slow Start
59 - Gastrodon (1,2,4)
58 - Armaldo 1, Dusknoir (3,4), Granbull 1, Throh (2,4), Brave Aegislash (58 Speed, 0 Speed IV)

Let's go through each Pokémon. Set4 and Veteran Pokémon only; Sword KO means Sacred Sword is an OHKO, Sneak KO means Shadow Sneak is an OHKO.

80-Speed: both 79 and 58 underspeed them, 80 Speed ties them which is bad, 81 Speed outspeeds them; the option of going for 81 Speed is examined in the next paragraph or two
Aurorus4 - 79 Speed wins: +0 Sword KO
Scrafty4 - 58 Speed wins: 58 Speed can set up on it due to Payback's lower BP
Torterra4- 79 Speed wins; +6 Sword KO
Blissey4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO, +0 Sword 2HKO
Bouffalant4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Machamp4 - Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Ursaring4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO, immune to Sneak
Abomasnow4 - Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Tyranitar4 - 58 Speed wins: Focus Sash
Donphan4 - Tie: it's Donphan. STAB EQ can crit you, Fissure may kill you, Quick Claw and Sturdy to sweeten the deal. Sure hope you have a Ground-immune ally you can switch in.
Eelektross4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sneak is a 75% chance to KO, +6 Sword is 100%
Hariyama4 - 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Lickilicky4: 79 Speed wins: +6 Sword KO
Muk4: Tie: Aegislash walls it
Rampardos4: Tie: +6 Sneak KO
Regice1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - +2 Sword is an OHKO (except for Regice3, on which +2 Sword is only a 81.3% KO), +6 Sneak is a 31.3% KO at best; killing it before it paralyzes you with Thunderbolt or Thunder Wave is good
Regirock1,2,3: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Registeel1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO
Tangrowth4: 58 Speed wins - +6 Sword is only a 81.3% chance to KO
Druddigon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO while +6 Sneak is a 93.8% chance to KO
Ampharos4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO, +6 Sneak is a 81.3% chance to KO
Exeggutor4: Tie - Aegislash walls it
Armaldo4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO, +6 Sneak is a 43.8% chance to OHKO
Aggron4: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Carbink4: Tie - Carbink
Forretress4: Tie - Aegislash walls it
Hippowdon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO
Probopass4: 58 Speed wins - Sturdy
Regigigas1,3,4: 79 Speed wins - getting hit with Confuse Ray before moving is bad
Gastrodon4: 79 Speed wins - +6 Sword KO

Summary: 79 Speed wins against 15 species; 58 Speed wins against 6 species; the remaining 8 are tied

From this analysis of the most common AI Pokémon in this Speed range, I think 79 Speed (Adamant, imperfect Speed IV) is superior to 58 Speed (Brave, 0 Speed IV) for Maison Singles purposes under normal circumstances due to its ability to outspeed and OHKO multiple threats with +6 Sacred Sword where 58 Speed would need to take a hit.

81 Speed is an alternate Speed point that requires no bizarre-IV breeding to reach to avoid 80-Speed ties and better kill Swampert4, Empoleon4 (if it doesn't have Sub), and Whiscash4 (Wailord4 is OHKO'd by Sneak, so it is not a concern for this); howewer, these come at the cost of losing to Magnezone4 if it has Sturdy and doing worse against Empoleon4 when it has a Substitute (which it does if you set up on it). Zone and Empoleon are the bigger threats to Aegislash and the team, so I prefer 79 to it.

Also, 58 Speed is not necessarily ideal for Brave Aegislash in the Maison - but it is the most common one, so we're using it as a comparison point here. You could go up to 61 Speed, for example, to avoid speed tying any of the 60-58 Speed Pokémon, and outspeed Regigigas, Gastrodon and Hippowdon; or go for 66 Speed to outspeed Armaldo; or 69 to outspeed Druddigon and Ampharos... or you could just go for Adamant 79 Speed, which is the ideal speed point for a Maison Singles Aegislash in my opinion.

Greninja @ Choice Specs ** Glenn II
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
EVs: 92 HP, 12 Def, 196 SAtk, 4 SDef, 204 Spe
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Dark Pulse
- Scald

EV Notes

I came up with the idea of an SAtk-cut Greninja with Specs (to avoid Life Orb Damage and enable the power cut) to partially get around its traditional bulk problems and even beat many of its usual counters when improving Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja. Being locked into Specs is less problematic than I thought, and not taking Life Orb damage lets it beat Weavile reliably, barring a Night Slash crit. 92 HP hits 159 HP, minimizing residual damage and being optimal for bulk with 12/4 in Def/SDef.

Key calcs:
252+ SpA Expert Belt Vaporeon Signal Beam vs. 92 HP / 4 SpD Greninja: 132-156 (83 - 98.1%)

Yes, Greninja beats Vaporeon4 1-on-1 at full HP. I never thought I'd see the day, but it's here. It also 2HKOs Ludicolo, 2HKOs Empoleon after it has used Sub, and does other neat things.

252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 92 HP / 12 Def Greninja on a critical hit: 138-163 (86.7 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

And it can also switch in to Garchomp4 with a small risk, only having a 1.175% chance to get KO'd when doing so. Previously, I had to sac Dragonite to get Chomp - with this spread, my preferred play is switching in Greninja, and hoping for no high-damage roll crit. The 1.175% risk is higher than when saccing Dragonite, but losing Dragonite and meeting Donphan as a second Pokémon with just Greninja and Aegislash left is a bigger risk (Donphan is Set B along with Garchomp, and also accompanies it on type specialist trainers that carry Ground-types). I don't know the exact number, but I'm sure the risk of Donphan if saccing Nite on Garchomp is greater than the 1.175% chance of Greninja getting KO'd on the switch-in, if Chomp even uses Dragon Claw (Swords Dance and Stone Edge are also plays it can make).

The change may seem small, but it is huge. I think this Greninja is much better than any Life Orb one for Singles; previously, I thought Suicune was the #1 Water-type in the Maison, and Greninja was #2. Today, with this spread and item choice, I think Greninja is #1 and I'd rather have it over Suicune any day of the week, even if Item Clause didn't exist to prevent Suicune from co-existing on the same team with Aegislash. Though they occupy slightly different positions, of course, so a direct comparison is not entirely possible. And well, Greninja currently beats Suicune on the leaderboard as well, which is another argument in its favor.

Posting is hard, so the promised Cloyster/Gliscor/Greninja write-up is going to have to be delayed for a bit. This is the highest goodstuffs streak on the leaderboards right now, but Jumpman16 said he had an ongoing streak between 50 and 1253 wins, so it's likely that he's the true leader in the category right now. Both this streak and his are ongoing, though, so there is still hope for giving him a run for his money.




The threats look quite a bit different - the top two threats of V1, Weavile and Mamoswine, are both manhandled by Specs Greninja with Scald making it unfreezable. In their place, new, exciting opportunities to lose rear their ugly heads - most notably Volcarona, as seen in the loss.

Most other Fire types are not threats - they are outsped and OHKOed by Scald and you can just switch in Nite/Aegislash and then bring Greninja back in to KO.

Fire-types that survive Specs Scald and actually may be able to badly punish being locked into IB/GK are few:

• Infernape4: Focus Sash - walled by Dragonite, not very threatening
• Entei1/2: Focus Sash and bulk, respectively - Entei1 can KO Greninja with Overheat+Stone Edge, one of the rare Fire types that can both survive Greninja's attack and kill it afterwards
  
• Blaziken4: Speed Boost enables it to outspeed Greninja. Howewer, if it comes in as last Pokémon on a Grass/Ice Greninja, resisted IB/GK + Flare Blitz recoil puts it in KO range for Sneak (unless Greninja was really low), enabling risk-free clean-up. If Greninja doesn't have enough HP to inflict good recoil, there is a risk of getting crit with Flare Blitz (this situation happened once in the run without the crit happening, I think - most of the time, the recoil damage was enough).
• Charizard4: Assault Vest lets it survive Scald; howewer, Heat Wave + Focus Blast (on a Water-type Greninja) is not a KO thanks to the EV spread and not taking Life Orb damage
• Heatran: it's bulky - but it can't kill Greninja with its non-STAB neutral attacks, so 2HKOing it is not a problem
• Ninetales4: Passho Berry and Drought make it very Water-resistant. But it is set-up fodder for Dragonite, and Greninja may be able to muscle through with Specs Dark Pulse.
• Volcarona4: God damn Volcarona
• Darmanitan4: if Greninja has enough HP to survive Flare Blitz, switch in Aegislash to be sacced and then KO; or risk the crit on Aegislash. Pick your poison; if Greninja is full HP, then the risk is lower with Greninja: 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 92 HP / 12 Def Greninja on a critical hit: 143-168 (89.9 - 105.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Note that Blaziken4/Darmanitan4 are assuming the worst-case scenario: Dragonite being dead, leaving you with a Fire-weak Greninja and a Fire-weak Aegislash. (You can still win even against Volcarona in such a scenario if it goes for Heat Wave when you switch Aegislash in to be sacced and it doesn't QD/Aegislash is damaged enough to die fast.)



A short "what to do against lead X" list for a sample of how the team is generally played, and what the options are:

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Abomasnow2/3: Switch in Greninja on Blizzard to avoid risking Aegislash getting frozen on the switch-in, then switch Aegislash in on Focus Blast for free -- for Set4, Abomasnow4 can never kill Aegislash even with hours of freeze and buffer switching is unnecessary (and even actively bad, since you risk getting Greninja frozen and damaged for no reason). I did, howewer, get frozen by Chef Andrei's Abomasnow2 and Abomasnow3 once or twice and freeze at the sight of Abomasnow2's Double Team, so I kinda forgot about the more common Abomasnow4's impotency.
Glaceon4: go to Greninja, Scald 2HKO while praying for no BrightPowder activation
Cresselia(1,2); DD, if it is Cresselia2, switch in Aegislash and set it up; if it's Calm Mind, keep DDing/Roosting and go Outrage at +2 or more
Cresselia(3,4 or 1,2,3,4): switch straight to Aegislash as set3 may use Icy Wind to fuck Nite up, and go from there; straight switch to Greninja is bad because of the risk of Moonblast from set4
Suicune: go to Greninja, Grass Knot 2HKO
Starmie4: Switch in Greninja, Dark Pulse KO; if frozen, go to Aegislash
Greninja4: Same as Starmie4
Empoleon4: Go to Greninja, then switch Aegislash in on the Substitute, get +6, KO with Sword breaking sub + +6 Sneak being a KO at 75%; if Greninja is frozen, Scald, then go to Aegislash - tanking an extra Surf or a crit may make setting up fully impossible, so take care and attack at +2/+4 or switch in Greninja if things look bad
Ludicolo4: Go to Greninja, Grass Knot 2HKO
Leech Seed users: go to Aegislash, set up
Tyranitar4: straight EQ to break its Sash, then Roost on its Rock Slide; if it misses, KO with EQ and go to the next foe with 100% HP if Sandstorm was gone - if you don't get lucky with Rock Slide's 10PP, kill it with EQ anyway, just without 100% HP. Setting up on it is nigh-impossible thanks to Dragon Tail. Stalling out PP until Dragon Tail is dry is an option, but you will always lose Multiscale on Dragonite when doing that, and it will take forever - plus there is a risk of taking a random Rock Slide without Multiscale when switching Nite in during Sandstorm. Tyranitar4 is annonying.
Jolteon3,4/Manectric3,4: straight EQ in case of double paralysis proc
Crobat4: switch to Greninja, IB KO
Togekiss4: switch in Aegislash, then switch in Greninja on Heat Wave, IB KO
Porygon24: if it Traces Multiscale, straight Outrage; else, DD into Outrage
Lanturn4: straight EQ, then Roost/DD on Ice Beam until it Rests, then EQ again, then Roost again until it Rests without Chesto; now you can set up to +3 and KO; if a freeze breaks your Lum, stop doing whatever you were up to and just kill it
Espeon4: switch in Aegislash on Dazzling Gleam, go to Greninja to KO with Dark Pulse (locking into Dark Pulse is safe, and keeping a full-HP Nite instead of locking into Outrage when damaged is usually good) - especially since Gardevoir, bulky Psychics that aren't KO'd by +1 Outrage, Froslass, and others often accompany Espeon
Steelix4/Escavalier4/bulky Swagger users that need +0 Outrage + +2 Outrage to kill (and don't die to +3 Outrage due to crazy bulk/Sturdy): straight EQ, if it Swaggers, EQ again to kill it; if it doesn't Swagger, Roost/DD and kill them safely, don't let Steelix Curse too much
Swampert4/Quagsire4/Gastrodon4: go to Greninja, GK KO
Probopass4: DD and EQ - you can't stall this thing since it kills itself with Life Orb
Tornadus: DD and Outrage - StarKO mentioned straight Outrage in case of Tornadus2 (which is good if it is a threat, but Aegislash can actually stall out Tornadus2 with King's Shield spam somewhat safely (though not entirely without risk), so DD into Outrage is worth going for (if it dodges, Subs and Nite is confused/etc, go to Aegislash ASAP and don't sac Nite for no reason)
Articuno: Straight Outrage in case of Articuno2; other Articuno sets are set-up fodder for Aegislash, so it is quite safe as a worst-case scenario of +6 Aegislash and getting rid of Articuno2 ASAP is great
Walrein4: Outrage, pray
Whiscash4: DD twice, then EQ - if it gets an Accuracy drop, switch in Aegislash safely on Muddy Water (it will not use Fissure on Dragonite), then switch Nite back in, Roost, DD and until you get +2 and kill it with EQ without getting an Accuracy drop
Vaporeon4: risk the Ice Beam crit and DD; if you get crit and KO'd, go to Greninja and GK 2HKO (a 2% Greninja locked into GK is not a great position, but hey, you got crit by a ridiculous Expert Belt Vaporeon; what are you gonna do about it?)
Regigigas: Outrage
Weavile: go to Greninja, smash it with Scald while laughing
Froslass: go to Greninja, Scald it (don't get killed by Destiny Bond, though)
Mamoswine: Scald, Scald, Scald
Aurorus4 (Refrigerator): go to Aegislash, SD once, KO at +2 (you don't want to risk a Hyper Beam crit)
Aurorus4 (Snow Warning): Roost/DD on Dragonite
Lati@s: switch in Aegislash, SD and KO at +2 if it's not Set2
Hydreigon4: switch in Aegislash on Dragon Rush, King's Shield on Crunch, switch in Greninja on Crunch and IB KO
Dragonite4: switch in Aegislash on Dragon Rush, King's Shield on Fire Punch, switch in Greninja on Fire Punch and IB KO
Salamence4: switch in Aegislash on Outrage, King's Shield, switch in Greninja and IB KO
Druddigon4: Outrage
Tyrantrum4: Outrage
Aerodactyl4: switch in Aegislash, set up
Armaldo4: switch in Aegislash, set up
Pinsir4: switch in Aegislash, set up (and avoid possible Scarf Guillotine with immunity)
Darmanitan4: switch in Aegislash, set up
Alakazam4: switch in Greninja on Trick (or Psychic), exchanging Specs; if Trick, switch in Aegislash on the incoming Focus Blast; SD as it eventually switches out while being locked into an ineffective move
Hawlucha4: go to Aegislash, set up; skip King's Shield, as it is very likely to use U-Turn once Stone Edge PP is dry, and you want as many boosts as possible
Medicham4: go to Aegislash, set up
Hariyama4: go to Greninja to minimize Freeze risk on Aegislash (Scald right out to thaw if frozen); bring Aegislash in on Brick Break, set up
Jynx4: go to Greninja - if Frozen, thaw with Scald and go to Aegislash if Dry Skin; else, Dark Pulse KO
Donphan4: switch stall QuakefissureEdge, set up Dragonite to +6 on Seed Bomb
Flygon4: switch stall QuakeEdge
Rampardos4: EQ KO
Garchomp4: switch in Greninja, IB to break Sash and sac it; KO with Sneak
Barbaracle4: switch in Aegislash, King's Shield on Shadow Claw, switch in Greninja on Shadow Claw, GK KO
Hippowdon4: go to Greninja, GK KO or 2KHO (can't recall - it won't do anything either way)
Bastiodon4: go to Aegislash, +0 Sneak to break Sturdy, set up
Regirock: go to Aegislash, set up or switch stall depending on set
Regice(1,2): go to Greninja, then to Aegislash to avoid getting frozen (paralysis, which is a high possibility anyway, is not game-losing, unlike a big freeze)
Regice(3,4 + 1,2): go straight to Aegislash as Thunder Wave is a possibility


This is not a complete list of what to do, but it should give you a general idea of what Dragonite can do, and when to switch in what, and how to double switch to minimize risk and get Greninja in safely.

(No) Battle Videos:

Chef Andrei near-loss

#??? - Vanilluxe/Kingdra/Avalugg
Chef Andrei sent out Vanilluxe!
I missed the fact that it was Andrei, whose Vanilluxe3 carries Sheer Cold. You know what happened afterwards:

Vanilluxe used Sheer Cold! It's a one-hit KO!!
Vanilluxe used Sheer Cold! It's a one-hit KO!!

Both Aegislash and Greninja are down. On the good side, Vanilluxe is weakened and in EQ KO range, and the Hail that it summoned is expiring on the turn Nite came in, allowing Nite to keep its Multiscale.

Out comes Kingdra as the second Pokémon. A good opponent - barring a Sniper crit, it's relatively safe to DD on. So DD I do, and it misses, allowing Nite to keep Multiscale and Outrage away at +1.

The last Pokémon is Avalugg, and the Blizzard miss won me the battle - Avalugg's pathetic STAB Blizzard can't OHKO through Multiscale, so it was 2HKO'd with Outrage.