Resource Battle Stadium Singles Series 12 Analysis Discussion Thread

[Theorymon]

Guess what? Battle Stadium Analyses are coming back on February 16th! To hold everyone over until stuff gets written up and reservations go up, around 50 or so Pokemon will have their sets uploaded. You can see that in real time on this page as stuff gets added tonight: https://www.smogon.com/dex/ss/formats/bss-series-12/

Feel free to ask any questions for the sets, or give out suggestions, such as alternate EV spreads to mention, new sets, mistakes, etc. Just remember, this isn't the place to reserve sets or write an analysis for them, this is a place to discuss them!

Contribution Leaderboard

Not sure what we'll use this yet outside of Hulavuta's little BSS awards thing, but I'd like to record people that suggest changes to the dex here that get implemented!

DerpySuX - 8

Thick Fat Azumarill - 3

Tox - 3

Comradesquidwar - 2

Jellicent - 1

 

[Comradesquidwar]

• For Yveltal, you could consider adding that 140 hp evs (life orb number) let you always live behemoth blade + avoid the 2hko from specs astral barrage as an alternate spread. U-turn could also be an option on AV the set
• For Calyrex-Shadow, the "bulky choice scarf" set has choice specs as the item
• For Xerneas, you could note that 68 speed EVs lets you outspeed adamant before setup

 

[Thick Fat Azumarill]

and have Defense EVs on their SpDef sets;
should still have 31 SpDef IVs for Download;
I recommend Lash Out on physical

 

[Tox]

Very solid work.

Here are some suggestions for possible changes and additions:

Swampert:

You'd be forgiven for calling it a throwback to series past, where offensive Zapdos was even more of a threat than it is now, but 252 HP / 36 SpDef makes Swampert be able to live +252 SpAtt Life Orb Max Airstream from full, and a sprinkling of SpDef (even up to living Nihilego Grass Knot; similar investments actually start to move the numbers on Ho-Oh's uninvested Max Overgrowth in a meaningful way) is indeed still the standard on Swampert sets in high-finishing blogs:

(recent 1900-2000 Elo Swampert blogs)
https://rosupoke.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/01/01/140909
https://lazy2525.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/12/01/160939
https://snorlaxigon.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/01/02/082646

Swampert should probably also have Focus Sash as a fully-developed set because of what Mirror Coat and Counter force hard-hitting restricted mons like Kyogre, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh to think about in the lead match-ups, for example.

Finally, Protect + Leftovers likely warrants a mention somewhere.


Zekrom: I think Zekrom is relatively unexplored, arguably for good reason, being a worse physical attacker than Zacian in most situations, while being just as bad or even worse as a Ditto target overall. Nevertheless, perhaps there is something to be done with the fact that most successful Zekrom builds last series were bulky Substitute + Dragon Dance, where you leverage Zekrom' resistances and set-up on Zapdos/Ferrothorn/Quagsire:

https://kanta8823.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/01/01/172812
https://michelle-p.hatenablog.com/entry/2022/01/01/151351

Below that, it's seemingly all 252/252 Life Orb/Lum Berry all the way down to 4-digits, though. Probably a case of wait and see as to what people are doing with Zekrom in a two-restricted meta, but some of the defensive benchmarks on those bulky sets should stand the test of time, even if we never see another Zekrom again.


Dracovish: The final product should perhaps mention Rest as Max Guard (and timer win-condition) option.


Landorus-T: If you're any kind of purely offensive set, the existence of Choice Scarf Kyogre alone makes running anything other than Jolly 252 Spe hard to justify because of how conveniently the Speed tiers line up between the two. Moreover, on a Life Orb set, slashing in Self-Destruct/Giga Impact as Max Strike move is a fairly important, I think.


Yveltal: On physical sets, I think you can get away with slashing in Black Glasses as a hold item if your only non-Dark attack is Dual Wingbeat. I think physical Yveltal is just overall a great deal worse now that Zacian can be on every team than it was last series, so I wouldn't consider this a priority or anything.

 

[DerpySuX]

I was reading over my NDM analysis and spotted a few typos I made that made it onto the site.

- the first bullet point in the “Offensive Dragon Dance” section has a pretty bad one. Somehow when I was adding in the GP fixes, the word “absurd” was replaced with the word “raise.” The phrase should read “.. raise it’s already incredible power to simply absurd levels.”

- the first bullet point in the “Cosmic Power” section just has a missing space. It should read “This set takes”

- the second bullet point in the “Calm Mind” section has a redundant use of “activation,” it should read “.. after activating weakness policy and getting …”

I apologize for not catching these until after the analysis was uploaded

 

[ultracslewisjr]

For Grimmsnarl, consider a SpDef+ 252/252 spread, for specs Kyogre.

 

[DerpySuX]

Putting my NDM notes from today in here per Tmons request lol

Long story short, after crunching some numbers, I found that 116 speed EVs outruns Timid Zapdos at level 50, meaning that the spread with 132 speed EVs in the 2 dragon dance sets is solely for Garchomp. I got this wrong in my initial analysis, and listed 132 EVs as the recommended spread for the offensive dragon dance build.

In light of this information, I asked Theorymon to update the analysis to correct these things

- update the EVs section in “Bulky Dragon Dance” to note that the 132 speed spread is solely for garchomp

- add a 116 speed EVs spread in the “Offensive Dragon Dance” section as the recommended spread, as that is enough to outspeed Zapdos, and change the 132 spread to an alternate for teams worried about Garchomp.

 

[DerpySuX]

Putting my NDM notes from today in here per Tmons request lol

Long story short, after crunching some numbers, I found that 116 speed EVs outruns Timid Zapdos at level 50, meaning that the spread with 132 speed EVs in the 2 dragon dance sets is solely for Garchomp. I got this wrong in my initial analysis, and listed 132 EVs as the recommended spread for the offensive dragon dance build.

In light of this information, I asked Theorymon to update the analysis to correct these things

- update the EVs section in “Bulky Dragon Dance” to note that the 132 speed spread is solely for garchomp

- add a 116 speed EVs spread in the “Offensive Dragon Dance” section as the recommended spread, as that is enough to outspeed Zapdos, and change the 132 spread to an alternate for teams worried about Garchomp.

View attachment 413873View attachment 413874

Just adding this to say that the “Bulky Dragon Dance” section still needs to get amended, and the bullet point in the “Offensive Dragon Dance” section isn’t formatted correctly. I put reference images in the post above. Thanks for all your hard work TMon :)

 

[Theorymon]

Hello everyone! Each month, we'll be sweeping through the dex to make some minor updates to movesets. So far, this is what we've done!

Also, I'm recording everyone's contributions to this thread and adding a "leaderboard" of sorts to the OP (except for me, that'd be cheating imo!). Dunno what we'll do with this yet beyond have it involved with Hulavuta 's BSS awards thing but... I figure this is good to keep in handy for later. If you have any suggestions for stuff to add, or disagree with any new additions, please post in this thread!

Zacian-C

- Fire Fang is now just a mention on Swords Dance, but the slashes have been reorganized and Quick Attack has been added.

- The Bulky EV spread was added as an option for Swords Dance

Landorus-T

-The Suicide Lead set has been revamped to reflect the ladder more, with Bulldoze being slashed in.

Kyogre

- Sheer Cold and Rock Tomb were added to the AV set.

- A defensive set was added.

Porygon2

- Defense Curl was slashed into both sets.

Urshifu-S

- Rock Tomb is mentioned on Focus Sash (but not slashed in).

Ho-Oh

- Defensive is now the first slash.

- Imprison has a slash in on Defensive. This might be downgraded back to a mention when there's a write up.

Swampert

- Protect is now slashed in the SR set.

- There is now a Focus Sash Countercoat set.

Mamoswine

- Rock Tomb and Stone Edge are now slashed in with Stealth Rock and Freeze-Dry.

Necrozma-DM

- Photon Geyser is now mentioned on both Dragon Dance sets (but not slashed in) as a way to blast through Yawn Quagsire, at the cost of not being good in Dynamax.

 

[DerpySuX]

I’m glad that it was noted that Geyser is absolutely USELESS on DD sets when dynamaxed lol. Beating Quaggy can be useful but man I don’t like giving up my strong mindstorms

 

[DerpySuX]

In the reservation thread, you forgot to take Blissey off of the list of available Pokémon, and also you listed yourself as writing the Umbreon analysis lol.

Still debating about who I should write an analysis for next. Most of the mons I feel confident that I know most things about are already done or being worked on, guess it’s time to step out of my comfort zone

 

[DerpySuX]

Back again with another oops moment from yours truly!

The other day I was laddering and was absolutely flabbergasted to see my Dusk Mane take 52%, from a Zacian Close Combat, since I thought I had EV’d for that. So I went back into the calc to see what happened.

As it turns out, I must have forgotten to set Zacian’s nature to Adamant when running the calcs for my Dusk Mane spreads, and absolute max Attack Zacian has a 26.6% chance to 2 hit KO 252/140+ NDM with CC.

I went back to find the spread that would allow NDM to always live 2 adamant CCs, and that spread ended up being 252/236 with an Impish nature.

I do not think this warrants changing the recommended spread, however, as NDM gives up a ton of speed to do this, and not being able to outrun and threaten Zapdos and Yveltal after a dragon dance is very detrimental, and severely limits its utility as an offensive mon. At that point you’re better off running a fully defensive spread imo. I think it would be best to just update the analysis to clarify that 252/140+ has a small chance to be 2 hit KO’d by adamant Zacian.

Calcs -
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 85-101 (41.6 - 49.5%)

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 91-108 (44.6 - 52.9%)

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 140+ Def Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 84-99 (41.1 - 48.5%)
————
There’s also a small typo at the very end of the Urshifu analysis. the words “and grabbing” should be “or grab”




Mod Edit: Both are fixed!

 

[DerpySuX]

I also think Sacred Sword is worth a mention on Zacian’s Swords Dance set. It helps it deal with stuff like Iron Defense Ferrothorn without needing to gamble on getting a critical hit. I’ve also seen it used to bust through various Steelspike Users (care to guess which one primarily) to devastating effect. I’m not sure it’s worth a slash in, as it’s pretty niche, but it can be helpful in the right scenario.

 

[DerpySuX]

I missed a small typo in my Cinderace analysis. I fat fingered the letter “h” in the last bullet of the Focus Sash analysis. lol


Mod Edit: Fixed!

 

[Theorymon]

Hello everyone, some new updates to BSS analyses!

First off, we're now allowed to explain EV spreads before Pokemon have analyses (aka stop asking me about Zygarde's EVs LOL). Not a ton of mons have this yet, but I'll be adding them throughout the week!

If any of you have any EV spreads to add, please post them in this thread, if they're good we'll add and explain them!

- Speaking of Zygarde, it got a Dragon Dance set added, and new EV spreads mentioned for the Coil sets.

- Calyrex-S's Choice Scarf set has a new EV spread to survive Zacian-C's Behemoth Blade

- Zekrom's Dragon Dance set has now become "Dynamax Sweeper" with Body Press slashed in.

- Incineroar has sets onsite now! It as a support set, and an AV set.

- Reshiram has a Dragon Dance set now

- Eternatus's offensive EV spread was fixed, thanks Jellicent !

I'll post whenever more stuff on the dex is changed!

 

[Theorymon]

Courtesy of Tox , some more dex updates!

- Xerneas now has two sets: Bulky Geomancy, and Fast Geomancy. The new former set has a similar spread that the #1 team last season had!

- Eternatus now makes explicit reference of timer stalling for its defensive set.

- Dialga has Body Pressed slashed in its offensive set. The main purpose is to blast Chansey after Max Steelspike boosts.

- Dialga now has 12 Speed EVs for its AV set, to outspeed paralyzed Calyrex-S.

- Blaziken's sweeper set now has Coba Berry slashed in.

 

[Theorymon]

Time for another large update to the dex! QC talked over, and this is what we have so far. If you have any questions, want more stuff added or changed, etc, you're always welcome to post them in this thread or on Discord!

All changes to the dex will be linked to as well if you want to see them in full!

More changes will be added later too!

Chansey

- Chansey now has two sets: Physically Defensive and Specially Defensive. This was done because physdef sometimes doesn't run Attacks and is far more likely to run Charm.

Incineroar

- Incineroar has had its AV set updated, and is now the first set, and a new main EV spread based off of the #1 team from May!

- Close Combat is now slashed in on the AV set for blasting Tyranitar.

Calyrex-S

-Added Substitute Set

Lugia

-Lugia has gotten a massive set overhaul, now having 3 distinct sets!

- Set 1 is an offensive Dynamax set

- Set 2 is a Paralysis Spreading Calm Minder

- Set 3 is a full defensive set that doesn't always run an Attack.

Landorus-T

- Choiced is now the 2nd set with CB being the first slash in, to reflect it's increasing usage.

Seismitoad

- The physically offensive set now has Choice Band slashed in, since it OHKOs Zacian-C and has a much better shot of OHKOing max HP Kyogre.

- The Specially Defensive set has gotten overhauled. It's now only physically based, as specially based ones have fallen off. Chesto Berry and Rest are now slashed in as well.

Tyranitar

- For some reason Crunch was a slash in on the first set LOL, dunno how that slipped through! It now isn't.

- The defensive set now has Chesto Berry as a primary slash in, as well as Rock Blast being alone instead of a Rock Tomb slash in.

Ho-Oh

- Added a Choice Scarf set, which while not too common, has proven to be useful.

Mimikyu

- Mimikyu got Life Orb added as a 2nd slash in to the first set.

Gothitelle

- Air Balloon is now slashed in. In addition to punishing choiced Ground moves, it severely punishes Pokemon that may sometimes go mon-ground, such as Quagsire and SpD Seismitoad.

 

[Omastar68]

I really like T-Wave on Regieleki. Max Guard on offensive has helped me a lot, as does the only move worth it on most dragons.

I've gotten great use out of electro Ball(idk that Ancientpower is really worth a slash, for Shedinja Assurance is an option and that hurts Caly-S a bit more than STAB.)

But T-Wave is more mainstream so I feel more strongly that that should be on there. Also, I run different EVs. And Scarf use has picked up for scarf Caly-S, plus some +2 Airstreamers

Food for thought, idk about scarf for sure. Regieleki is my favorite this gen w/ an analysis for sure, I've used it most of my games.

 

[DerpySuX]

Photon caught an error in the Offensive DD section of my NDM analysis.

- the bullet point for Rock Blast does not mention that SR chip is required for the OHKO on Dynamax Yveltal with +1 Max Rockfall.

 

[Theorymon]

Photon caught an error in the Offensive DD section of my NDM analysis.

- the bullet point for Rock Blast does not mention that SR chip is required for the OHKO on Dynamax Yveltal with +1 Max Rockfall.
View attachment 437082

This has been fixed!