Resource Battle Stadium Singles Series 12 Viability Rankings

[Theorymon]

Battle Stadium Singles Series 12 Viability Rankings

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Current List of Voters

Butch Hardnight
greilmercenary9
Kiby
luisin
papiloco
Theorymon
Tox
zaaya

Welcome to the new viability list for Battle Stadium Singles Series 12! Here, we rank Pokemon into specific tiers based on how we feel they preform in the metagame. This isn't some objective list, but it should provide a decent snapshot of the current metagame! You are heavily encouraged to post your own thoughts, as these will be taken into account for the next slate of changes!

As these are the early days of the viability rankings: don't take Pokemon order within each tier to heart too much: they're currently order in how close they were to breaking through their current tier, or dropping to another tier. So for example, in the current list, something like Porygon2 or Hippowdon were the closest to making it to A rank, while Palkia was the closest to dropping from B rank. We'll add C rank later, and may add more specific rankings such as A+ later as the metagame progresses.

When posting your thoughts, please give reasoning. We don't want posts such as "make Yveltal S rank", we want "I think Yveltal should be S rank for these reasons". We get much more interesting discussion when you post your thought processes and justifications!

One last thing: you may notice links on most Pokemon. These lead to their BSS 12 dex pages!

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Restricted Rankings

S Ranks - The best Pokemon in the metagame, and the kind that fit on most teams.

S+

Zacian-C

S

Kyogre

Necrozma-DM

Controversial S

Yveltal (50% split between S and A+)


A Ranks - Extremely good Pokemon that fit on a wide variety teams.

A+

Calyrex-S

Ho-Oh

A

Eternatus

A-
Xerneas

B Ranks - Pokemon that are good, but are more specialized, need more support to work, or are not beginner friendly.

B+

Zygarde (Power Construct)

Zekrom

Lugia

Lunala

B Ranks

Reshiram

Calyrex-I

B-

Palkia (close vote: 2 for B-, 1 for B+, B, C+, and Unranked)

Controversial B

Dialga (Close vote: 2 for B+, 2 for B, 1 for A, 1 for A-, 1 for C)

Kyurem-W (Close vote: 3 for B, 3 for C+, 1 for C)


C Ranks - These Pokemon tend to have serious problems holding them back. Only use them if they have a specific niche you require.

C+

Groudon (Close vote: 2 for C+, 1 vote for A+, A-, B, C, C-)

Kyurem-B

C

Zacian-H

Rayquaza (close vote: 2 for C, 1 for A, B+, B-, C+, and Unranked)

Controversial Low Ranked

Mewtwo (2 for Unranked, 1 for B, B-, C+, C, and C-)

Unranked - Either you're only using these to get master rank ribbons, or you found some kind of secret use, because these Pokemon otherwise are not very viable on most teams.

Giratina-O

Zamazenta-C

Unrestricted Rankings

S Rank - The best Pokemon in the metagame, and the kind that fit on most teams.

Zapdos

Landorus-T

Ditto

A Rank - Extremely good Pokemon that fit on a wide variety teams.

A+
Porygon2

Ferrothorn

Quagsire

Cinderace

A

Chansey

Blissey

Urshifu-Single Strike

Mimikyu

Seismitoad

Tyranitar

Regieleki (Close vote: 3 for A, 2 for B, 1 for C-, 1 for Unranked)

A-

Tapu Fini
Dracovish
Gastrodon

Controversial A

Incineroar (1 vote for A+, A-, and C+, 2 votes for A and B)

Urshifu-Rapid Strike (1 vote for A+, 2 for A, A-, and B+)


B Rank - Pokemon that are good, but are more specialized, may need more support to work, or are beginner unfriendly

B+

Celesteela

Swampert

Shedinja

Mamoswine

Gothitelle

Galarian Darmanitan

Grimmsnarl

Heatran

Umbreon

Tapu Koko

Whimsicott

Excadrill

Rotom-W

B

Dragapult

Thundurus

Pheromosa

Skarmory

B-

Pyukumuku

Galarian Moltres (Close vote: 2 for B-, 1 for A, B, C+, C, and Unranked)

Dracozolt

Salamence


Controversial B

Dragonite (2 votes for A+ and B, 1 vote for A-, B-, and C)

Hippowdon (2 votes for A and B+, 1 vote for A-, B, and B-)

Rillaboom (2 votes for A+ and B-, 1 vote for A, B+, and C)

Blaziken (2 votes for A- and C+, 1 vote for B+, B, and C)

Toxapex (2 votes for A and B+, 1 vote for A-, B, and C)

Lapras (2 Votes for B and C, 1 vote for B+, C+, and Unranked

Garchomp (2 votes for B+ and B, 1 vote for A-, C+, and C)

Rotom-H (2 votes for B and C+, 1 vote for B+, B-, and Unranked.)

C Ranks - These Pokemon tend to have serious problems holding them back. Only use them if they have a specific niche you require.

C+

Primarina

Torkoal

Volcarona

Corviknight (Close vote: 2 for C+, 1 for B+, B, C, C-, and Unranked)

Controversial Low Ranked

Aegislash (2 votes for B and Unranked, 1 vote for C+, C, and C-)

Metagross (3 votes for C+ and Unranked, 1 vote for A-)

Rhyperiror (2 votes for C and Unranked, 1 vote for A, B+, and B-)

Gengar (3 votes for C+ and Unranked, 1 vote for C-)

Polteageist (3 votes for Unranked, 2 votes for C+, 1 vote for B and C-)

Bronzong (3 votes for Unranked, 2 votes for C, 1 vote for C+ and C-)

Thundurus-T (3 votes for Unranked, 1 vote for A-, B+, B-, and C)

Klefki (3 votes for Unranked, 2 votes for B-, 1 vote for B and C)

Heliolisk (3 votes for C and Unranked, 1 vote for C+)


Unranked - Either you're only using these to get master rank ribbons, or you found some kind of secret use, because these Pokemon otherwise are not very viable on most teams.

Entei

Arcanine

Galarian Corsola

Cinccino

Slurpufff

 

[Theorymon]

This post is reserved for a change log... but I just posted this thread so nothing yet!

 

[DerpySuX]

Are these in any particular order? If they are in order of viability I have a few changes I’d recommend

- I’d move Urshifu-R down , maybe around Seismitoad and Dracovish, at the very least, I believe Urshifu-S should be above it.

- I would move Cinderace up to around the Urshifu forms due to how well it can pair with top restricteds like Zacian and NDM on offensive teams.

- I think swampert could be low A tier, alongside Gastrodon. It’s a very solid lead, but I’ll admit I haven’t played with it much, so I won’t comment further to avoid potentially spewing nonsense.

 

[Omastar68]

I don't see Corviknight on here. Granted I'm known to not see a mon that is there but...maybe worth mentioning.

 

[Theorymon]

I don't see Corviknight on here. Granted I'm known to not see a mon that is there but...maybe worth mentioning.

So to be clear, Skarmory just baaarely made B-rank in terms of votes (it got to it by like one vote), while Corviknight was in the votes but missed out making B-rank. I feel like its mainly because Skarmory has Stealth Rock, which is a major selling point over Corviknight. There's also extreme emergency situations where Sturdy can let Skarmory survive an extra turn against a Dynamax Pokemon, so wasting time is cool!

That being said. You can get away with using Corviknight in a similar way to Skarmory if you don't want Stealth Rock. It's a bit bulkier and Mirror Armor has some neat interactions, so I personally would not mind having Corviknight talked about for the next slate. At the very least, I'm almost positive that at worse, it'll be up when C rank stuff is added.

 

[DerpySuX]

I don't see Corviknight on here. Granted I'm known to not see a mon that is there but...maybe worth mentioning.

Skarmory is already barely worth much with its custap lead set, Corviknight provides almost no utility as a defensive Pokémon, as Celesteela is more effective in that role. The only thing that Corviknight has going for it over these 2 is Pressure/Mirror Armor and U-turn (you could argue instant recovery in Steela’s case, though Leech Seed is still fantastic), which at least to me is not enough to differentiate it enough to be worth using when it performs much less consistently.

That being said, like was said above, you can make it work, but I feel that it’s far less consistent than any other mon on this list.

 

[Omastar68]

Oh ok. I never used it but was under the impression it's ok. That's maybe an overstatement it looks like, cool.

 

[DragonWhale]

I'd swap P2, Hippo, and Swampert with Urshifu-R, Chansey, and Dracovish.

P2 is the best defensive utility pokemon alongside Blissey that trades walling Kyogre with handling physical threats simultaneously. Chansey and Blissey aren't that different but Chansey isn't as solid a Kyogre check as Blissey is, which is one of the few merits that Blissey has over P2.
Dracovish struggles from "too many people have water immunity for kyogre" meta trends, making it less viable in a ton of matchups. Not to mention Choice Scarf is such an important item in this format, running it on Dracovish has a lot less merit than running it on Pokemon like Ditto, Caly-Ghost, Darm-G, and Fire types, among other things.
Urshifu-R is kinda similar with the water immunity and scarf thing, meaning that the merit of this pokemon over Urshifu-S is very limited. Yes if your opp has no water immunes you can spam surging strikes and even beat Zacian, but generally speaking this is not a standalone pokemon like the rest in A-rank.
Hippo and Pert are the best yawners in the game, capable of coming in on Zacian and start trapping the opponent into yawn cycles. Some can say Quagsire does the yawning thing better, but because Quagsire doesn't have stealth rocks the only way for Quag to pressure with Yawn is to double yawn on Zacian+Special attacker and EQ on the incoming Zacian -> repeat, meaning the yawn pressure is meaningless if the opponent still has 3 pokemon left and will end up just PP stalling yawn without much to lose. Hippo and Pert deter the stall option because the opp will constantly take rock chip, and they also have other tools to manage some yawn answers. Hippo has Whirlwind to invalidate any Sub+Setup option, Swampert has Flip Turn to control momentum to bring insane Pokemon like Yveltal into a favorable matchup.

Oh also add whimsicott to B at least. That pokemon is always annoying aka always good.

 

[Omastar68]

Woah Hippo is B. That must've not sunk in when I went through this, that mon is horribly annoying, not on par with Shedinja and Pex. Throwing in support for all the above. Thinking to go back to an old mon I nommed in the other VR, to reevaluate it. If I like it I'll bring it up again, for now no ideas of my own. Except wondering what's wrong w. Kyurem-B.

 

[Theorymon]

Woah Hippo is B. That must've not sunk in when I went through this, that mon is horribly annoying, not on par with Shedinja and Pex. Throwing in support for all the above. Thinking to go back to an old mon I nommed in the other VR, to reevaluate it. If I like it I'll bring it up again, for now no ideas of my own. Except wondering what's wrong w. Kyurem-B.

So Black Kyurem was also voted on but didn't make it to B. For my personal opinion on Black Kyurem (note that I haven't used it since Series 11): On paper, Black Kyurem has some interesting selling points, such as being a pretty anti-Kyogre dragon (though not to the same extent as Palkia), and as a Dragon Dancer, it cleaves through Landorus-T effortlessly compared to Zekrom.

However, the thing that really kills Black Kyurem's chances for B in my opinion is that it has a really miserable time against a lot of bulky Steel-types. Zacian-C, Dusk Mane Necrozma, and Ferrothorn are all very serious issues for it even when Dynamaxed (note for Ferrothorn, Max Hailstorm and Max Knuckle from Body Press do a lot, but it becomes really iffy when Ferrothorn Dynamaxes too), and Fusion Bolt and Earth Power are not enough for those 3. Compare it to other Dragon Dance sweepers like Zekrom and Dragapult, and I just feel losing to those 3 is a devestating blow to its viability. Maybe it'd be a bit more interesting if it didn't use a restricted slot, but as it stands, I personally can't give Black Kyurem anything above a C.

On another note though, I agree with Dragonwhale's reasoning for most the mons above. I actually voted A for Hippowdon, P2, and Swampert myself! And yeah, the water absorb / storm drain spam has been very apparent to me this season, which is part of why I think Dracovish and Urshifu-R have seen pretty big usage drops this series. Doesn't help that one of the Water Absorbers, Seismitoad, also plays a really nasty "guess what set I'm using" game that can really keep the paranoia up!

I guess the one thing I'm less sure about is Chansey in B. I do agree that Blissey is often better because of Kyogre, but Chansey's extra physical bulk can make it fairly irritating, especially on stall teams that try to timer stall with Charm, which can pull annoying stunts like stalling defensive Dusk Mane Necrozma out of Sunsteel Strikes. Even while its worse than Blissey imo, it does enough similar walling that I feel like its about on par with most A rank stuff. I'm curious to hear other thoughts about Chansey though, maybe its a Pokemon the metagame will continue to shift away from!

Whimsicott sorta fell through the cracks. It was up for a vote but didn't make B. I honestly haven't seen it yet this series despite seeing it hang around the 40-50s in usage. I think it's worth revaluating for the next slate though!

One final thing: all the Pokemon on the VR list that were missing sets onsite, now have them onsite! So that's Thundurus, Blaziken, Tapu Koko, Heatran, and Skarmory!

 

[DerpySuX]

I guess the one thing I'm less sure about is Chansey in B. I do agree that Blissey is often better because of Kyogre, but Chansey's extra physical bulk can make it fairly irritating, especially on stall teams that try to timer stall with Charm, which can pull annoying stunts like stalling defensive Dusk Mane Necrozma out of Sunsteel Strikes. Even while its worse than Blissey imo, it does enough similar walling that I feel like its about on par with most A rank stuff. I'm curious to hear other thoughts about Chansey though, maybe its a Pokemon the metagame will continue to shift away from!

Something I find that makes Chansey potentially more useful than Blissey on some teams is the higher physical resilience thanks to Eviolite. This allows it to semi check things like Ho-Oh and/or get off an emergency Thunder Wave that Blissey would otherwise fail to do.

I understand that this is incredibly team specific and isn’t always worth the trade off against Kyogre, but it’s worth taking note of. That being said, I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing Chansey in B.

 

[DerpySuX]

I’m surprised to see Cinderace in A tier in all honesty. I’ve always considered it one of the most consistent performers in the BSS meta ever since it got Libero. I’m interested in hearing the reasoning behind this drop, is it simply because the power level afforded by 2 restricteds makes it less appealing, or is it something more nuanced like other, generally better Pokémon competing for the item it prefers?

I know Yveltal really likes Life Orb, and Caly S likes Sash, but I don’t use the bunny much so I don’t really know what else it uses aside from those and sometimes AV (meaning I use it every now and then to decent success lol).

 

[Omastar68]

Well it surprised me a bit, but I think it's largely cause Zapdos and Landog are so cemented in S rank, and are kinda checks to Ace. At least Landog is for sure. I'm not sure it has as much to do w/ restricteds as those two.

I'm all for Ace moving up, though.

 

[DerpySuX]

Zapdos is not a consistent ace check. LO does an absolute ton to max zap with fireball or max strike and ace outspeeds so it’s not like you can just send zap in on a revenge kill, especially considering that your chances of beating ace get even slimmer if it manages to get a max knuckle or max airstream off beforehand.
Lando is an ok check tho

 

[Theorymon]

On Cinderace: Believe it or not, it was closer to getting ranked Under A than above A!

Anyways for my opinion: Besides the LO and Sash competition being fierce, it also has heavy Max Airstream competition in the form of Zapdos, Landorus-T, Yveltal, and Ho-Oh (so yes having two restricted isn't entirely great for it). Also while Cinderace can pull stunts like 2HKOing Quagsire and Eternatus with the appropriate move, these kinds of match ups are really awkward in 1v1 situations compared to other Max Airstreamers, so Cinderace can't pull stunts like "Max on Quagsire and OHKO it", which is an issue when Yawn + Protect is there. And yes while it's not common, Landorus-T can at least Max Overgrowth Quagsire for a ton of damage! There's also Counter Sash being an issue (granted not a unique one, Landorus-T doesn't like that either, but its got more uses than just sweeping.)

All that being said, I still personally viewed it as a high A rank, because even if I find it harder to slot in than other Max Airstreamers, it DOES have some serious benefits, such as Life Orb Max Fireball doing obscene damage to Dusk Mane Necrozma, and it just being rather difficult to switch into it in general since even if it can't cover everything, you don't know what it has right away! For me personally, its comparison to other Max Airstreamers was the biggest contributor to why I put it A rank, but its something I still think about in team building all the time, both using it and preparing it, so I still think it's a serious threat!

 

[Omastar68]

I use it and like it ok, but I don't think Mamoswine deserves A rank at all. B is good, it was niche 'rank' last VR thread. Not much has changed that I know of, so it can't reasonably be A. Right?

As for what it does, I really like Freeze-Dry. But it lacks power on that and is frail. Even physically cause you can't afford to invest. It's a bit slow too. Oblivious rarely comes into play(well I haven't used it but...mine also isn't SR,) and Thick Fat is not great on sash which is about all it can do.

 

[DerpySuX]

I think Mamo is good enough for A. I’ve been seeing the focus sash Oblivious variant as a lead a lot. It is a great matchup vs many common mons (Lando, Ygod, Zygarde and it can even pressure Zacian thanks to sash), and oblivious blocks intimidate and taunt, allowing Mamo to consistently get big damage or set rocks, depending on the situation. Primarily being a focus sash lead, it’s able to fit on a decent amount of offensively oriented teams, and thanks to Oblivious, it’s extremely unlikely that Mamo won’t be able to do at least something of value.

 

[Omastar68]

Well ok. Mainly it's just a big change from last series why it seemed off.

EDIT: Thought of another argument against it though I'm ofc fine if it stays...Mamo isn't a great maxer at all. This isn't really bad, not all mons need it. However, if brought w/ 2 of the mons that can't. or shouldn't, do it like Zacian, Pex, Eternatus, Umbreon, and Chansey it has to. And it's loackluster because Ice Shard is weak there, and not priority. It also doesn't really benefit from Max Quake causse it's sash and truly frail. I guess that's a mediocre reason too, but just thought I'd add it.

 

[DragonWhale]

The majority of non-restricted A rank are not good maxers. That's the point. You get your mileage out of your non-restricted while simultaneously being able to max the powerhouse restricted pokemon.

Ice/Ground hits the majority of relevant restricteds super effectively, and requires the restricted to max to come out of the matchup in a not-near-death state, which means you scraped off 2 turns of max with sash. You can't even weather chip off the sash because Ice/Ground is immune to both sand and hail. Add to that the wide movepool options you have for move 4, and you have a pokemon that well deserves to be A rank.

Cinderace, or any other non-S tier pokemon for that matter, should not be in S tier. The 3 current S tiers are in a complete class of their own compared to other non-restricteds in the meta, you can even put an empty tier in between them and it'll still make sense.

 

[Omastar68]

Well that proves that last VR thread is not much to go by for what's what here, and even if it wasn't the mon I'm thinking of now was only niche there. But I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere it has the most resistances of any mon. Magnezone, should that be B, or C when it's made? Shallow movepool but hey even zaodos kinda is. STABs, Mirror Coat, and T-wave or Body Press seems fine. Custap is predictable w/ Sturdy, but it could run Analytic to be surprising.

It doesn't seem great, but Heatran is B so 4x ground is obviously not a complete dealbreaker. That said a lot has ground, and Zone lacks the nice Eternatus match-up Heatran has(well, it can Mirror Coat so perhaps not...but anyways.) Zacian has CC and Kyogre's a problem...just like Heatran again. Body Press makes it more relevant to pink blobs I think.

EDIT: Nvm silly old Magnezone, Rotoms didn't make the cut?

 

[Theorymon]

Hello everyone! Butch Hardnight , also known as Jamie Keane on Discord and Pokemon Showdown, has been added to the VR council!

I think we'll be having a vote this week to keep this list up to date! To guide discussion towards this, I'll be posting something sorta akin to a slate. This isn't a hard voting slate per se: everyone is free to bring up stuff that's NOT on this list, or rankings not suggested. Think of it as more of a way to get discussion started, based off of metagame trends and discussions both here and on Discord.

Also, once we get this vote done, I'll immediately start discussion on C ranks! For stuff in the "B or C" pile, anything that gets voted to C will be included in an early C list as well.

I'll be posing this list of mons in a "rank x or y?" format.

S+???

Zacian-C

I'm mainly suggesting this, because Zacian-C is clearly the best Pokemon in the game, and this could let us have a group of Pokemon that are above A, but not in the same tier as Zacian-C!

S or A?

Kyogre

Yveltal

A or B?

Porygon2

Chansey

Blissey

Hippowdon

Swampert

Dracovish

Urshifu-R (the Water one)

Tapu Fini

Xerneas

Zygarde (Power Construct)

B or C?

Whimsicott

Palkia

Calyrex-I

Groudon

Lugia

Incineroar

Garchomp

Excadrill

Rotom-W

Rotom-H

Kartana

Gothitelle

Volcarona

 

[Omastar68]

Zacian in a higher rank makes sense. It's largely the reason that I adore my unique check to it, Centiskorch. Especially now that I went HA, Flame Body. It's great vs Zacian, and i think that and the rest warrants a C rank since that's gonna be made. Zacian isn't its only chance to shine ofc, or it still wouldn't be worth a rank. But it's usually the main one. Defensively it plays like Volcarona, and I see that getting voted on. As for proof, I'm top 3k finally. Cent has been on my team the whole season. Results should help make a case for it, not that I'm 100% sure mine are great but the standards here.

 

[Butch Hardnight]

i think zacian should be s+, or however you want to name it, because i think classing kyogre or yveltal as anything below s tier themselves weakens the succeeding pool as a result.
porygon2 as an example is a pretty strong contender for a tier, but it's not really in the same league as kyogre or yveltal. so i think it makes sense to just bump zacian up and treat it as a special case.

Hello everyone! Butch Hardnight , also known as Jamie Keane on Discord and Pokemon Showdown, has been added to the VR council!

thanks for having me! also just to say, it's kean, you've added an extra e!

 

[Theorymon]

Time to revive discussion so we can have a vote! I'll be posting my takes on mons this season. Feel free to bring up other mons that aren't in this post!

S or A?

Kyogre - S

Yveltal - S

As motioned in April, if we give Zacian-C an "S+" rank, then I think Kyogre and Yveltal are a step above the other restricted. They're the type of mons whose sheer power often forces pretty specfic answers for teams to handle them, such as Gastrodon for Kyogre or Tyranitar for Yveltal. And these answers aren't really perfect either, Kyogre and Yveltal have ways around them! I think that alone makes them deserve S-rank.



A or B?

Porygon2 - A

I think Porygon2 probably deserves an upgrade to A. While Porygon2 isn't a "perfect check" to stuff, it checks so many damn mons, and has decent offesnses with Download (and hell can even Dynamax decently), that it's almost like a swiss army knife: it's not always the best tool for the job, but its usually a good tool for a wide variety of problems! I think the wide variety of situations Porygon2 can come out top on makes it deserve that A rank!

Chansey - A

I still think Chansey deserves that A slot. Besides being one of bulkiest special sponges around, Chansey's physical defense is actually much better than you'd expect, to the point where it can wall stuff like Mamoswine, and with Charm, can actually outstall Necrozma-DM switch-ins!

Blissey - B

I used to think Blissey was about on par with Chansey, but now a days, with the rise of stuff like Sheer Cold Kyogre, I feel that Blissey doesn't do its job quite as well as it used to. Also, it can't really cheese past some physical stuff like Chansey can. I still think Blissey has its place with being a better offensive Kyogre check, but Chansey is often the better choice for a lot of teams.

Hippowdon - A

Hippowdon does the same stuff it's always done this gen: it sets up Stealth Rock and Yawns. Of course like most BSS metagames, you've seen adaption to this, with some sweepers running Lum Berry specifically to dunk on Hippowdon. I can see that as an argument for "well then it should be B", but I still can't think of anything that does what Hippowdon does better.

Swampert - A

This one might be a more spicey take, especially considering Swampert's declining prominence lately. While I don't feel like it's as good at the Stealth Rock + Yawn stuff as Hippowdon due to less physical bulk and the 4x Grass weakness, Flip Turn is REALLY incredible imo. Flip Turning dangerous stuff like Yveltal and Zacian-C in can be a potential wincon, especially with Stealth Rock ruining potential edge ways to deal with them. I'll admit I'm more on the fence with this one than Hippowdon though.

Dracovish - B

My issue with Dracovish is that the water immunities like Gastrodon and Seismitoad make me a lot more paranoid about just spamming Fishous Rend. Also, even with the trend towards bulkier Zacian-C, I don't like that Jolly can outspeed Scarf, not to mention Calyrex-S. I can't deny that something like CB can be a danger to slower teams though, without Gastrodon or Seismitoad that can be a nightmare to switch into, so I still think B is a fine rank for it!

Urshifu-R (the Water one) - A

I have some similar issues for this as I do with Dracovish, though not as severe thanks to the Fighting STAB and tricks like U-turn and Sash Counter. I do find this a bit hard to justify over Urshishu-S at times though, because Wicked Blow is an awesome move compared to Surging Strikes in a lot of instances! I can't deny though, it has a great match up against Mamoswine and Landorus-T, which are major reasons I consider it over Urshifu-S at times. CB ones wrecking frailer Mimikyu is really cool too! I realize the A rank may seem sorta like a hot take, but the match ups against certain leads make me like this more than most B ranks.

Tapu Fini - A

Another potential hot take. So I realize that Tapu Fini is not quite as bulky as you'd hope, making it an iffy check to something like Yveltal without Dynamaxing, and offensively it often misses the mark at times. However, its the versatility that makes me lean more towards A rank than B rank: between CM Taunt sets, Defensive sets with Nature's Madness, and Trick Scarf sets, I actually find Tapu Fini to be more unpredictable than it's given credit for, and the wrong switch-in to this thing can really suck! I'm open to being convinced though, because I feel like each Fini set on their own isn't really worth the A rank.

Xerneas - A

This one I've been going back and forth on. On paper, I think Xerneas makes more sense as a B rank, since the Geomancy sets usually want some sort of support to get across their issues. However, with the rise of bulky sets that can survive Zacian-C after a Max Steelspike, I've found Xerneas to be more threating than the usual "strong B rank restricted". It's the kind of mon that can end the game instantly if its checks are chipped a bit, and it's dangerous enough when it doesn't get the Geomancy up that I think it might be worth the A rank. I'm open to being convinced otherwise though!

Zygarde (Power Construct) - B

As some of you that are Discord regulars know, I was publicly debating with myself with whether Zygarde should be A or B. On one hand, well executed Zygarde teams can be REALLY dangerous. Zygarde-C's crazy ass bulk makes it a fearsome Dynamaxer, and well built teams can get it into a position where breaking through it is damn near impossible. However, notice the word well-built: Zygarde isn't something like Necrozma-DM where you can slot it on a lot of teams. If you're making a team with Zygarde in it, it dominates your team building because it needs support to get into those wincon positions. While the same is true for Xerneas, Xerneas needs just one turn to wreck havoc against a lot of teams, while Zygarde is usually gonna need multiple turns to have that same wincon. I'd still place it at the very top of B though!

I honestly wouldn't even be opposed to just giving it a temporary "B+" rank. I realize we aren't really doing letter increments yet, but I do feel like Zygarde is def well above the other B ranks in terms of danger (besides Zekrom who I feel is on this level), but I want some feedback before we start adding increments for restricteds.

B or C?

Whimsicott - B

Whimsicott is something I think most of us ignored yet again, but honestly this thing is an unpredictable little bastard with its support options. Deciding between Subseed stuff or suicidal Tailwinder is annoying enough that I think it earns the B rank lol.

Palkia - C

To be clear I haven't actually used this thing extensively, but I've had trouble justifying Palkia over Kyogre beyond "it does decently against opposing Kyogre". Being weak to Play Rough is a major bummer with Zacian-C being around. I do want to test this thing more later because I find it interesting that it gets Max Airstream and can hypothetically break past Chansey, but I just struggle to find a use for it over Kyogre or other dangerous Dragon-types like Dialga, Zekrom, or even Kyurem-W and Reshiram.

Calyrex-I - B

This might seem like a bit of a hot take, but while Calyrex-I isn't common, its crazy ass bulk and deciding between if its TR or Agility sets do make me fear it. Calyrex-S taking up the same slot is a bummer since its a more splashable mon than Calyrex-I by a long shot, but this is a mon I def respect in team preview.

Groudon - C

This one is a high C rank to me. I actually think well played Groudon's can be pretty scary, and it's not ENTIRELY outclassed by Landorus-T thanks to Drought being awesome in Kyogre match ups. However, that restricted slot is valuable, and you need a REAL good reason to use Groudon over other established Ground-types, hence why I think C is a better fit than B.

Lugia- B

I've been messing around with Lugia a bit, and I can see why it's popped up in some high ranking teams: the Dynamax versions are actually pretty dangerous to offensive teams (though watch out for crit hax!), with Multiscale actually being able to avoid a 2HKO from Scarf Calyrex-S, and Lugia actually being able to decimate a lot of offensive stuff with CM + Weakness Policy Dynamax shenigans. There's also the infamous Lugia + Zygarde cores that spread paralysis far and wide! However, Lugia has a really hard time with stall teams, and it's heavily reliant on Multiscale to beat some of the scarier offensive BSS mons, so it needs some support. Overall, I think it's a solid B rank, nothing more or nothing less.

Incineroar - B

Incineroar is a mon I feel I sorta dismissed until last month. On paper it doesn't check a ton, needing AV to avoid a 2HKO from LO Yveltal, Zacian-C cleanly 2HKOing it, etc. However, Incineroar can be rather punishing if it comes in at JUST the right time (like Behemoth Blade), and it's got some pretty irritating utility options in Parting Shot, Snarl, and Will-O-Wisp. Parting Shot in particular is really good at punishing switch-ins to set up dangerous mons! I also can't avoid talking about those annoying Custap Sets that can cripple stuff unexpecedly, and its a pretty damn good Calyrex-S check most of the time. I'm not sure I'd put it up to A rank just because it relies a lot on "I switched into the move I resist so now I can zap momentum", because it's bulk sometimes feels like it's NOT quite there.... but I think it's utility is worth at least a B rank!

Garchomp - B

Garchomp can have some difficulty differentiating itself from the other more prominent Ground-types, similar to Groudon, but not being a restricted really helps Garchomp's case here imo. Scale Shot is still pretty cool on more offensive ones, Rough Skin is a solid ability, and I like that it outspeeds Zapdos. It's a decent setter of SR too. I can see the case for C-rank, but I'm leaning towards B.

Excadrill - B

This one I've been going back and forth on. In this format, Excadrill is pretty good at dunking some prominent stuff like Zacian-C whenthe sand is up, and with Max Rockfall its totally capable of pulling that off even when Tyranitar is benched. However, I don't think it does fantastically against bulkier teams, and fast Kyogre can really just ruin its day unless you're running Sash. I'm leaning towards B just for the Max Rockfall surprise sweeps, but I can totally be convinced that its C!

Rotom-W - C

I barely see this thing or use it, but hey Trick Scarf shenigans aren't bad, and the Behemoth Blade resistance is always welcome! I actually was considering this for B rank just because of Trick being really annoying, but I also don't really like how its slower than Yveltal or how its weak enough where it actually doesn't do that great against Kyogre. Would love some discussion on it though!

Rotom-H - C

I think Trick Scarf is also pretty annoying, and the double Steel resist is really cool, but man that Fire-type is a bummer against Kyogre teams, and makes it not as good as you'd want against Zacian-C. Still, Trick Scarf is annoying enough that it justifies C rank imo.

Kartana - C

Kartana on paper seems sorta scary because of Beast Boost and the great typing, but even when its Dynamax it's not really as bulky as you'd hope, and threats like Yveltal just sorta spank it in my experience, and its not a hard mon to wall with stuff like Necrozma-DM either. I don't have a lot of experience with this mon though...

Gothitelle -C

Gothitelle has the potential to make stallier mons really miserable when it wants! Cosmic Power + Taunt shenigans can REALLY suck to face for certain teams, which is great for team preview pressure! However, there are some teams (like say, Yveltal based teams) where Gothitelle is totally useless. It's sorta similar to Shedinja in that way, but Shedinja can at least make some offensive mons miserable, while Gothitelle is very specfically anti-stall mon check. I'm curious to see some arguments for B (which I was initially leaning towards), but Gothitelle feels like the kind of mon you put in late in the teambuilding process, and only if you REALLY need to break some stall mons for your team.

Volcarona - Abstain

I remember some high ranking teams using this before, but I honestly don't know what to say about Volcarona LOL.

 

[Butch Hardnight]

going for a bit of a different approach, so i started with what ended up being the top 70 usage and tiering them and writing about them. probably making more work for myself but i wanted to include things not mentioned in the old list to include things maybe a bit more currently relevant.

S+ (zacian tier, better than the best)

zacian defines the current meta. it is so powerful that you need sometimes multiple dedicated answers or you will lose to it. really, it should be higher than s+ because the gap between it and everything else is just silly.


S (these are the best pokemon in the game, they are easy to pick up and use, they are great at what they do and have very little drawbacks to being on your team. they need to be prepared for)

kyogre is, imo, the second best restricted. it’s the reason that utility umbrella is not only used, but exists in the first place. the fact it can 2hko resists like ferrothorn is a testament to its power. a big pro for kyogre is it has a low barrier for entry, it’s very easy to pick up and just use and see success with. like zacian, you need proper answers to it or it will steamroll you but unlike zacian checking, kyogre is a bit easier because of things like blissey, seismitoad, and gastrodon.

yveltal i think is as good as kyogre but i can see why people wouldn’t see it as effective. something yveltal can do that kyogre can’t, is muscle through its own checks. max darkness can make short work of special walls letting yveltal get out of hand quickly, it can even run sets that allows it to beat its own checks like tyranitar and zacian. yveltal has more variety in what it can do than kyogre but i think the main thing stopping it from being the number 1 restricted is the fact that zacian exists.

necrozma-dm is zacian for people who don’t want to use zacian. it’s pros over zacian is that it can max, recover, and is generally harder to get rid of, it can also muscle through some of zacians dedicated checks such as quagsire just because of things in its arsenal such as photon geyser and hooh/zapdos with max rockfall. it has a good amount of sets it can run as well. i think it suffers in that it needs to set up to really get going and generally struggles with things that beat zacian, but being a restricted that matches up well into zacian is great for it.


A+ (these are pokemon that are really good at multiple things but have more clearly defined answers/checks)

zapdos was the best pokemon before restricted pokemon and it is still one of the best now, it helps it matches up ‘decently’ into zacian, kyogre, and yveltal and can beat them all within a vacuum. stab max airstream + electric and fire coverage is very powerful, it can run offensive and defensive both very well. it’s hurt mostly by power creep. despite having the ability to beat zacian, kyogre, and yveltal, they can all still beat it if zapdos is out of position or they still have max available.

landorus is the only thing stopping regieleki being the most broken pokemon of all time. landorus matches up well into zacian and necrozma, can act as a decent pivot, rocks setter, or max sweeper. it’s hard to imagine a world where landorus wouldn't be at least good. like zapdos, landorus is benefited by its versatility but similarly held back my power creep.

eternatus benefits a lot from the element of surprise. if you know what it’s doing it’s a lot easier to deal with, but if you don’t and you guess wrong, it can be a real issue if you get out of position versus it. it is also one of the central pieces of stall which is always obnoxious. eternatus is hurt by how good ground and steel currently are.

calyrex-s is stupid. a pokemon that can get out of hand probably faster than anything, it has no business being this fast and strong. like a lot of restricted pokemon, it’s one you need to respect or you will straight up lose to it in team preview. what separates it from the likes of zacian or yveltal, is that its answers aren’t as niche and generally shut it down completely.

hooh is one of the better zacian answers, bulky enough that it can 1v1 kyogre with an assault vest, and regenerator lets it pivot and reposition without much cost. stab max airstream and a signature move that can burn 50% of the time make it difficult to switch in on. it can be versatile in its item choices but it really needs to watch out for stealth rock if it’s running anything other than boots. random rock coverage, stealth rocks, and landorus really get in the way of it being higher.


A (the same rationale as a+ but not as powerful)

porygon2 a nice single mon answer to landorus and calyrex, can be built in different ways to act as a general pivot into whatever you’re struggling with. recovery and things like thunderwave/discharge can make porygon2 very obnoxious to get through if you’re not prepared. it can be overwhelmed by the big 3 (zacian, kyogre, yveltal) though and is generally lacking in power to remove threats it can’t hit for 4x effectiveness.

ferrothorn is similar to poyrgon2 in it’s ability to be just obnoxious to get rid of, it can be a good switch in for kyogre, leech seed stall, and iron defence body press to make the physical attackers cry. ferrothorn also benefits from the influx of water/ground types floating around at the moment. ferrothorn, despite matching up well into kyogre can still be 2hko’d depending on the set, and generally can be overwhelmed before it can really get itself going. even set up will lose hard to the often present fire coverage, of big special threats like yveltal.

seismitoad is really enjoying zacian and kyogre being dominant and the fall off of rillaboom in a dual restricted world. it can run offensive swift swim or defensive water absorb, and both can really get in the way of you having a good time. just the presence of it in team preview can at least stop kyogre from thinking it can just do what it wants. seismitoad is let down mostly by not being the strongest, when it’s maxed it’s just strong enough to get through what you need it to but intimidate can waste the max, and even the bulky sets aren’t as bulky as you need them to be sometimes.

chansey is your generic run of the mill special wall, good for switching in, spreading thunderwave, setting up rocks, and just whittling things down and never dying. it’s similar to porygon2 but not as much of a specialist. chansey takes passivity up to 11 though and even special threats like yveltal can muscle through it.

i’ve never used hippowdon in the current format but just based on its usage, and general placement in the top teams for the seasons it seems like it largely functions the same with the same pros and cons.

mimikyu guarantees you at least one move, which can be enough to swing certain match ups. sub, painsplit + curse can really break through bulky teams, or set up for a late game zacian sweep. mimikyu’s main drawback is it’s really not very strong, it’s not going to be sweeping anything in the current format and when disguise is broken it’s not got the same utility going.

ditto something i was told from someone in vgc was that most people aren’t prepared for their own teams, and i think ditto exemplifies that in this format because you basically have 3 restricted if you play it well. zacian teams without zacian answers will lose to ditto on the spot. dittos main drawback is the increase in usage of substitute, it’s lower overall bulk, and how you generally need choice scarf to make the most out of it which can come back to bite if you can’t break something in 5 hits, or get paralysed.


B+ (pokemon that can do one thing very well but have very clearly defined drawbacks)

quagsire is the best pokemon of all time. how can you deny this when it’s the most reliable answer to the most meta defining pokemon of the current generation? quagsires one niche is important enough for it to see a lot of usage, but it’s really the only thing it can do. you can have a good amount of moveset and item variety, which gives it some surprise factor. any special attacker can walk all over quagsire however.

zekrom is my favourite restricted right now but it’s not always the easiest thing to use. if you get a free turn, one dragon dance is all it takes for zekrom to steam roll. being able to bypass abilities gives it the leg up on other physical attackers, it can get around mimikyu to dodge a burn or set up on quagsire. zekroms main issue is it can’t really set up on the things it would ideally be on your team to beat, you will lose 1v1 to yveltal if you don’t have a dragon dance, and you can lose to kyogre if you try to get greedy vs it.

zygarde is my second least favourite pokemon of all time. i hate it. but it’s good at what it does, which is spread glare and become unkillable. like zekrom, it struggles with finding the right time to set up and will underwhelm you if it can’t get going. i think of it as the patient persons zekrom, you have to play a longer game but it can win you games.


i have a lot more to add to this but i wanted to at least get started and post something so to be continued...