Tournament BDSP Premier League Format Discussion

[dex]

Hello! Tuthur and I are going to be hosting the first BDSP Premier League! This'll be the first big BDSP team tour, and we are looking to open discussion on the policy that will define it. There's a lot of ground to cover with regards to the logistics here, so let's get right into it.

The most important topic up for discussion is the tiers that will be involved in the BDSP Premier League. Our current layout is going to be 6 teams and 8 slots. Additionally, we are going to lock in 3 of those slots for OU, leaving 5 slots available for other tiers or a fourth OU slot. Given that some BDSP lower tiers have seen more development or activity than others, we are curious as to your thoughts on what is included in this tournament. Here are the options for the 5 remaining slots:

• BDSP UU
• BDSP RU
• BDSP NU
• BDSP Monotype
• BDSP Ubers
• BDSP LC
• 4th Slot BDSP OU

We have initially decided against dedicating a slot to BDSP OU Bo3 due to Bo3 generally requiring more preparation for the same limited reward as Bo1, but feel free to voice your support or disdain for the format if you feel like it should be included or not.

More questions may be added to this thread as a consensus is approached.

 

[adem]

ngl i do not think 8 slots is that good for a meta this new + does not have that big of a solid playerbase, asw as the fact that a lot of good players who look down on playing in the meta. imo if it was 8 slots the tour wld be of a quite low level, and not as fun to watch. 6 slots is smtg i think wld work for this, and potentially expand to 8 if the tier grows enough

3 OU, 1 UU, 1 RU, 1 w/e meta is popping from the others since im nr familiar w them

if we do decide to keep 8, i think 4th ou is best, with prolly smtg like uu ru mono? maybe and another popping meta, ik ubers is not doing too hot and nu is new, so open to options as im not familiar w them much

 

[Finchinator]

I implore you guys to keep it at 3 OU and include BDSP NU.

While BDSP OU is the main tier with a good sized playerbase, the hype has slowed down a bit in more recent months and 3 slots seems like a perfect amount — a lot of other PLs do this with their focal CG tier as well.

BDSP NU has been the talk of the town in NU circles since the day it got released. We have a large amount of active and invested players. It’s at the point where I see more people discussing it than SS NU oftentimes. I implore the hosts to consider it as it’s a lock to be a successful slot with enough signups/interest.

 

[Lalaya]

While BDSP OU is the main tier with a good sized playerbase, the hype has slowed down a bit in more recent months and 3 slots seems like a perfect amount — a lot of other PLs do this with their focal CG tier as well.

BDSP NU has been the talk of the town in NU circles since the day it got released. We have a large amount of active and invested players. It’s at the point where I see more people discussing it than SS NU oftentimes. I implore the hosts to consider it as it’s a lock to be a successful slot with enough signups/interest.

agreed with both of these, plus adem saying that maybe 8 slots is a bit too harsh of a requirement on the current BDSP, although it's feasible

if we go 6 slots: OUx3, UU, RU, NU (edit: ofc more teams if six slots)
if we go 8 slots: OUx3, UU, RU, NU, LC and either one of Ubers/Monotype - I'd slide towards Ubers more to boost it more, since it directly benefitted from Arceus, Skymin and (in three days) Darkrai releasing, and Monotype is currently in disarray, but either two are fine OR something I saw using in some non-smog PLs and what I applied in the Teamballo, a jolly tier comprised of all the BDSP relevant tiers

if it was me I'd put Ubers as eighth slot and call it a day, but more teams and less slots could be the right move to boost BDSP back a bit

 

[Mike Legend]

don’t really fw anything but OU but looks like NU is probably the 2nd most popular and talked about tier so I’d include it. also would hate to see OU bo3 - trying to have teams rdy for seasonal even w the extra week from losers side is a pain in the ass

 

[AM]

ou x3, uu, ru, nu.

Edit: and more than 6 teams.

 

[agentkeval]

ou x3, uu, ru, nu.

Edit: and more than 6 teams.

agree w this, and like lalaya said, if adding more tiers, prolly ubers. Def include nu, shits booming

 

[Snak]

I feel like it should just be 6 slots.
2x OU, UU, Mono, Ubers, Slam Bo3 (RU, NU, LC)

(edit: i wanted to include UU in slam but Bo4 is weird)

 

[Mihowk]

agreed with adem, prob 8 teams and 6 slots is the best choice (OU x3, UU, RU, and NU), but if we want to keep 8 slots I would add LC and Ubers like lalaya said before

 

[dex]

There are two ways I am looking at this tour:

8 teams, 6 slots, with OU, OU, OU, UU, RU, NU

Here we have a 50/50 split between OU and the lower tiers. NU is a must in my opinion, as it has seen the most activity and support. As strange of a reason as it is, it would feel pretty weird to not include the tiers between OU and NU, and both UU and RU have seen enough development to be the viable choices over the rest of the field in my opinion. The one sticking point here is that this will not include Ubers, which has seen a recent wave of activity due to the release of a few mons. It's a fairly interesting metagame that I would like to see included somehow, but I can't justify it over UU or RU and especially not over NU.

6 teams, 8 slots, with OU, OU, OU, OU, UU, RU, NU, Ubers

Another 50/50 split between OU and the lower tiers. This time, Ubers is included, but at the cost of fewer teams and a more stretched roster. Despite the ratio of OU to lower tiers being the same, I think this format is definitely more skewed in favor of stacking up on OU players which, as a host, I don't think is the best course forward for a more inclusive type of tournament. There's room to drop an OU slot for LC, which I also think is acceptable.

Sadly, I don't think Monotype has the necessary development or playerbase to be considered at this time. I agree with others that 8 teams, 6 slots is more clean, and it is honestly my preferred option; however, there are some worries about having enough viable manager signups. This fear might, of course, not come to fruition. This is where my mind is tier-wise at the moment.

 

[megatyler30]

I think 8 slots would be good to get more variety in tiers. My vote would be ou x3, uu, ru, nu, lc, ubers. LC is currently being played in LPL, a competitive non-smogon LC team tour so I think that there will likely be more interest in it rn since it's getting active development currently and can be cross advertised in that server as well as the LC server.

 

[Lily]

Easy solution: 8 teams, 6 slots, possibility of going up to 8 slots depending on signups. OU x3, UU, RU, NU all confirmed in, Ubers and LC get a spot if they can field enough of an interested playerbase.

Has been done frequently for other tours before and is a pretty clean solution overall, doesn't screw over any particular playerbase. Realistically 64 starting slots isn't that many considering PLs in general tend to get ~200 signups.

 

[Sputnik]

Easy solution: 8 teams, 6 slots, possibility of going up to 8 slots depending on signups. OU x3, UU, RU, NU all confirmed in, Ubers and LC get a spot if they can field enough of an interested playerbase.

Has been done frequently for other tours before and is a pretty clean solution overall, doesn't screw over any particular playerbase. Realistically 64 starting slots isn't that many considering PLs in general tend to get ~200 signups.

I think this is the move right here, starting with 8 slots from the get go would not be a good choice as we're not sure exactly how much interest/signups that this will generate. I do think that Monotype should be considered if the tier garners enough interest from the playerbase, but as it stands right now I think Ubers and LC should get the final two spots should an expanded format be necessary.

 

[Tuthur]

I really don't understand the logic behind 8 teams. 8 teams for 6 slots is as many players as 6 teams for 8 slots. That's especially silly when it's about OU, 3 slots with 8 teams is as many players as 4 slots with 6 teams which some people argued is too many. You will have an harder time finding players to fill 8 UU and RU slots than finding 6 players in LC, Ubers and Monotype. 8 teams also has the problem of making the tournament longer and requiring more managers which is a pain in small communities. Most small PL have 6 teams, whether it is Old Gens PL like the ongoing SMPL and ADVPL or alternative metagames PL like ZUPL and AGPL. If I remember correctly, NFEPL, once tried 8 teams and it was a complete mistake (tagging NFETL from the time Jett to confirm).

3 OU are locked, I don't see any reason to not include UU, RU, NU, and LC which have big enough playerbases. Despite being in BDSP Slam, I think Monotype is the least interesting choice. As the tier seems abandoned, no tiering action has ever been taken, Ubers Pokemon like Darkrai and Shaymin-Sky are free, and so would be Arceus if players in Open didn't complain about it to me. The last slot should be between 4th OU and Ubers in my opinion, with me leading to Ubers for more tier diversity. This tier, however, suffers from the same abandonment as Monotype, as the OP still states Darkrai, Shaymin formes, and Arceus as unreleased, even if due to its nature it doesn't necessarily need tiering actions. I would like to hear some opinions from Ubers mains on the inclusion of the format to BDSP so tagging Fc and Theorymon.

 

[jns0808]

I say 8 slots is perfectly fine, BDSP NU is pretty popular and BDSP LC will easily have enough people to fill up the required slots
As for the 8th slot, give it to BDSP Mono, its the best choice Imo, 3 OU is enough

 

[AM]

Might be better to just start off smaller like Tuthur said. I'll be frank, Ubers sucks and I don't know if there's really a fix for that as it just feels like a worse version of Gen4Ubers. I understand the new mons got released but that format was completely dead within a couple weeks initially, and lot of people just look at it as a meme whenever it's brought up among Ubers people/Ubers room. It was already hard enough to find games in the BDSP room when I was actively playing it without facing the same two people over and over, good luck finding a ladder game lol. The activity wasn't there originally and forcing it into a tour for the sake of tier diversity doesn't even make sense.

If you wanted a middle-ground choose what's included based on player sign-ups/formats. These smaller PLs are usually subject to change anyways right in the middle of that sign up period.

 

[Fc]

As expected, I'd like to show support for an ubers slot to be one of the remaining ones. I don't want to bring down any in particular especially since I don't play them, but I think ubers should be worth a spot in an 8 slot tour with 3 OU's being locked over one of the other proposed ones. The tier's the best it's been right now, with a decently active chat in the BDSP discord and a noticable uptick in ladder games even near the top. When it used to take like 20 minutes at 1200 I can consistently find games in the 1400's if I wait just a bit at most times. Arceus also made it actually playable, with a fair bit of diversity and actual enjoyable teambuilding. Darkrai's gonna be here in a few more days just to add to the pool of mons as well, which will be nice with weakened Dark Void so it's a fun mon and not a sleep machine. Admittedly we don't really have good ways for new players to get into the tier with the lack of resources, but when the council gets bigger that'll quickly change and it's not the hardest of tiers to pick up regardless with the top mons being easy to slap on for standard builds and it being similar to DPP ubers in terms of what's broken. I'd be more than happy to play and build it in this tour and I'm sure a others would as well.

 

[TyCarter]

I think Ubers has started to pick up some steam as of late with Arceus formes, Darkrai's release coming in like the very next day (currently still 31st where I am at). NU is pretty popular although idk how much of that is a product of new toy syndrome. OU with 3 slots should be good, UU, RU, NU, Ubers, and then LC. Monotype honestly feels like the odd man out here IMO.

Personally, I'm fine with whatever u guys do at the end of the day even if it's probably cuz I play a good portion of the BDSP tiers to feel comfortable filling in wherever.

 

[Tuthur]

Hey, dex and I have decided on 6 teams with the given 8 slots:
BDSP Ubers
BDSP OU
BDSP OU
BDSP OU
BDSP UU
BDSP RU
BDSP NU
BDSP LC

If there is not enough signups in a format, it will be removed for a 4th OU slot during the signups phase. Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion. You can already signup to manage in the tournament if you want to. Tagging Kris Eve 6Roggenrolas to lock this thread.