Metagame BDSP UU (Salamence Ban @ Post #53)

Eve

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BDSP UU is home to Pokemon that don't recieve consistent enough usage to be considered OverUsed. This thread will be the hub for all resources and discussions, including Viability Rankings, suspect tests, quickbans and general conversation about the format as it develops.

RULES
Mechanics:
Battle mechanics are identical to those in Pokemon Sword and Shield, with the exception of Dynamax being removed. Any items introduced after Generation 4 with in-battle effects, excluding Pixie Plate and Roseli Berry, are unavailable.
Clauses: Smogon-wide Clauses apply.
Available Pokemon: Pokemon #001-493 are available, with the exceptions of Celebi, Deoxys, Shaymin, Darkrai, and Arceus. This does not include Alolan/Galarian formes or Mega Evolutions.
Bans:
  • All OU bans apply.
  • OU by Usage: Alakazam, Azelf, Azumarill, Blissey, Breloom, Clefable, Crawdaunt, Donphan, Dragonite, Empoleon, Feraligatr, Garchomp, Gengar, Gliscor, Heatran, Infernape, Jirachi, Latios, Latias, Lucario, Magnezone, Mamoswine, Manaphy, Rotom-W, Scizor, Skarmory, Staraptor, Starmie, Tangrowth, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Weavile
  • UUBL: Salamence

RESOURCES
Viability List by Twilight
BDSP Simple Questions, Simple Answers
BDSP Metagames Discord
More resources will be added over time.

Please don't make extremely short posts and/or simple questions! These will be deleted. Use the Discord or Simple Questions thread, both of which are linked above.
 
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Eve

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BDSP UU Sample Teams

Below are the current sample teams! Click the minisprites for the importables of the teams. Last Updated: 11th Jan 2022

Hyper Offense
- Dark Spam Spikes HO by Amane Misa
- Shell Smash Blastoise HO by Twilight
- Manual Rain HO by Twilight

Offense

- Gardevoir BO by Twilight
- CB Absol BO by Amane Misa
- Entei + Heracross Offense by Toy Time King

Balance

- Curse Snorlax by Twilight

Stall

- Mismagius Stall by Geknoss
- Spiritomb Stall by KaenSoul
- Cresselia Semi-Stall by Wanka

We're currently looking for any teams to add to these existing few. Particularly Balance and Offense teams that add some variety to the ones we currently have. Post any teams you think are sample worthy in this thread though make sure to tag Twilight. Give descriptions too please!
 
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Looking forward to see if manual rain will do something in this tier. I've heard it's not too slow for OU proper, but I haven't seen it at all. Looking forward to hopefully seeing rain do something in the game.
 
OU by Usage:
Feraligatr
Staraptor
dramatic-cat-facing-corner.jpg


Minor disappointments aside, really looking forward to this new meta! DPP UU is probably my favorite UU oldgen so this is really exciting to me. Really looking forward to seeing how this tier differs from DPP UU, especially with mons like Clefable, Alakazam, and Blaziken being either OU or Ubers, getting stuff like Metagross, Salamence, Zapdos, and Hippowdon that never was in DPP UU, and the HA and new move buffs to Pokemon that were already good (The Slowtwins in particular should be bonkers lmao).

(seriously though OU pls let my bby Feraligatr drop, I miss him...)
 
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There are a few things that seem potentially problematic right off the back, such as the previously mentioned Salamence, Tauros (because 110 speed and coverage + sheer force (although it has to rely on Rock Climb so maybe not)), Mew (has everything it could ever want except for Spikes and Knock Off), and then Arena Trap (Dugtrio) always seems to find its way into some sort of suspect or ban bar a couple metagames. I'm not saying anything is broken right now, these are just a couple things for everyone to keep an eye on one way or another.
 
Cress seems verrrrrrrrry good in the current meta and its kind of what is keeping all the (potential) brokens from brokening all over the tier. Nidoking, Metagross and Salamence I can see becoming big problems in the tier very quickly. None of the steels or fairies seem to be very good defensively either barring maybe Granbull and all the steels except for metagross can be trapped by either Probopass or Magneton which doesnt help. Having alot of fun with the meta regardless so Im excited to see where it goes. (also the beaver sick)
 
venomoth!!!!!!!!!


VEMONOTH (Venomoth) @ Insect Plate
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Sleep Powder
- Bug Buzz
- Sludge Bomb / Roost / Substitute

this thing will be a devestating setup sweeper as when it gets a quiver dance off it will be a nightmare to switch into because it
+1 252+ SpA Insect Plate Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Heat: 156-184 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
and
+1 252+ SpA Insect Plate Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 270-320 (60.9 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
you can choose sludge bomb for faries, roost for longevity, and substitute for status depending on what fits best
 
There is no way this tier will be anything like DPP UU
:dp/exploud:
I really want to use Chatot, but no Boomburst until HOME, so in the meantime Exploud can do the job
Thanks to Boomburst and scrappy it has one of the best nukes in the meta.
252 SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Exploud Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 216-256 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Milotic: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 214-253 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

:dp/blastoise:
Another mon that got some good boosts since DPP, cant touch bulky waters but it should be a decent lategame cleaner
Blastoise @ White Herb
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Scald / Dark Pulse / Aura Sphere
 


Zapdos is in BDSP UU right now, it's basically been OU since Gen 5, and it has many of the tools that elevated it to OU in the first place; Defog, Roost, Static and/or Pressure, all of that stuff. However, there's one thing that Zapdos lost that is the reason for this sudden decline, Heat Wave. Zapdos can no longer handle Pokemon like Tangrowth, or Ground / Steel types. In addition to this, Zapdos has no Flying STAB meaning.

However, I feel that it's gonna fit in nicely in the BDSP UU meta, access to utility in Defog, nice recovery in Roost, Static for paralysis, and Pressure for PP stalling, Momentum grabbing with U-Turn and Volt Switch, and great stats and a great defensive typing. In addition, it handles some absolutely troublesome threats like Gyarados.

Have any of you been using Zapdos? I enjoy it, but I feel like the movepool slash is making Zapdos work a lot harder than it would have ever had to before.
 
Alrighty, its been less than a day since the meta came out and I have some thoughts:<br />
<br />
Salamence: Broken. To the suprise of: No one. The fairies in the tier are awful, the steels are just as awful or lose to it, and DD + moxie rips through basically every team.

Cress: Not necessarily broken in terms of offensive prowess, but completely unkillable with direct damage. With the near nonexistence of toxic, knock off, and trick, calm mind sets are virtually unbeatable for most teams.

Sun: More of a questionable pic, but its definitely worth putting on the radar in case it becomes more clearly broken.
 
So my quick thoughts after playing a good few games. Kaensoul is right about exploud, mon goes incredibly well with webs and since no one is really using defensive mons, you kinda just kill everything with Boomburst other than like zong but you can click F Blast for the 2hko anyway so yeah, strong asf. You want to be going Modest though, those calcs they sent would change a good amount. UU also has a lot of normal types with high potential. Tauros is one of the fastest mons and hits hard, Porygon-Z is essentially a faster slightly weaker exploud (at least from the normal STAB side of things) and also another mon that goes hard on webs. To be honest, any offensive mon plus webs = good.

:salamence:: No brainer here that this mon is a cut above the rest. Whether it's band, scarf, LO the set does not matter, the snowball potential is a bit too high for the tier imo. DD mence is incredibly hard to rkill at +1 speed, even faster scarfers like Mismagius only do like 50/55 with d gleam and die to the next move then the next mon dies and gg. Your best strat is like cloyster ice shard (priority is lacking quite a bit), something like Shuca metagross which I tried and was alright or risk speed tie with your own scarf mence or flygon.

:torkoal:: Again the meta literally did just come out yesterday but sun is extremely strong. Victreebel and Venusaur get up to their usual stuff and it's even harder to stop them. Zard also has zero switchins, Chansey lacking eviolite leads it to get 2hkod by Specs Fire Blast for your notes.

:blastoise:: Probably the best set up sweeper behind Salamence, another mon that takes no prisoners once it clicks Shell Smash, unlike Cloyster it has all-around bulk and isn't weak to rocks so it has an easier time setting up. Dark pulse means it isn't walled by slowking and water/ice/dark hits everything other than Poliwrath lel and Sharpedo.

 



Probably has the Prankster monopoly in the entire BDSP metagame, only having a parallel competition with Murkrow due to the latter's priority Defog and TW. However, Sableye has priority burn, recovery and also sharing Taunt. Alternatively, it can also be an annoyance with Trick, although less common and sort of a gamble, it can compromise sweepers.


Sableye @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt / Protect
- Recover
- Foul Play / Knock Off / Night Shade


Sableye @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Trick
- Protect / Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Foul Play / Knock Off
 
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Thought I would make a preemptive personal VR just to throw it out there:

Broken
+ Sun - please quickban
- suspect
S

A+

A

A-

B+

B

B-



I either forgot, don't know, or dont care about anything else. I put everything on here that I either have used, have seen used, or has had some practical use from DPP UU carry over into BDSP. A little bit of theorymonning here and there, but overall I think the majority of my rankings is justified.

Mence is absolutely insane and needs to go, same with Sun. I shouldn't have to use Spdef flygon registeel and milotic on everything in order not to get dumpstered by Sun teams. I am also bad but I've seen many people getting dumpstered by Sun, so point still stands. Cresselia could be broken or not, I think we should 100% suspect it, though. That stupid level of fat coupled with insane support ability gives it the ability to turn pretty much anything into free turns fodder either by status'ing it or setting up on it. In addition, a huge amount of mons lost Knock Off and Toxic, 2 things that would help to deter Cresselia in theory are alot more thinly spread now, giving even more room for Cresselia to just sit and laugh at everyone.


S rank
Bronzong is easily the best Steel type in the tier due to its movepool, ability to choose what it beats through either Heatproof or Levitate, and overall fatness. Its surprisingly splashable and doesn't really fall flat in the face of anything too common, aside from bulky waters. It also benefits from Knock Off's distribution being cut, as well as the lack of Pursuit in the game. Overall, it's probably just one of, if not the best, pokemon in the tier (at least in my opinion.)

A+ rank
These are some of the best mons in the tier imo due to either versatility, power, or splashability, etc. Mew is probably top 5 mons in the tier due to how many sets it can do well, i.e. Defog, NP, Hazard setter, stallbreaker, etc. as well as the fact that its relatively bulky on top of all of that. Flygon and Doomer are both pretty versatile and decent offensive presences. Raikou takes extreme advantage of STAB+Scald, because all our Grasses are absolute garbage bar Rotom-Mow and Venusaur, and we have no dragons that like getting Scald burned. Also, it's speed tier makes it a lot harder to offensively pressure. It is walled by Gastrodon, though, and isn't the bulkiest pokemon ever. Rotom-Mow has like 0 switch ins, access to Status, trick to cripple defensive mons, overall just the best Rotom forme and really solid in general in my opinon.

A rank
Metagross would've been A+ had it not lost literally half its coverage options, but rocks+priority+powerful+option to run special sets, yada yada, its Metagross. Milotic and Registeel are both extremely solid defensive pokemon, with Milotic being able to work pretty well with hazard teams due to Dragon Tail and Registeel being able to either set rocks or do Curse sets, etc. Mismagius takes advantage of the fact that ghost resists don't exist in this tier and if they do they get folded 99% of the time by it's coverage. It can also run choice sets pretty well and can even do a NP set pretty well.
Heracross has 0 defensive answers, pray you're not running fat when you see this thing. Tauros is faster than most of the metagame and can just delete 90% of pokemon with Stab+coverage, aside from Cresselifat and non-paper ghosts. Uxie is pretty cool that its a psychic that can do rocks+uturn while being 30% fatter and almost just as fast. Also Levitate gives it cool role compression and it also gets Yawn! Finally, Crocune can just 6-0 the whole tier besides Gastrodon and Gastro probably isnt doing much back.

A- rank
A whole bunch of pretty decent and consistent mons that either don't really MU well vs top tier threats or mons that are semi decent overall. Zapdos got nerfed hard but is still a semi-decent pivot that can do defog duties. Blastoise can do choice sets or maybe defensive spin, but defensive spin is kinda ass, so choice sets are still awesome. Spinblockers aren't nearly as needed as in DPP but they aren't going to enjoy getting waterboarded by choice STAB when attempting to spinblock. Slowtwins do the same thing they always do, be fat, but this time with Regenerator! No Teleport or boots this time but still good checks to common physical/special attackers. The Nidos are also pretty consistent, either with sub 3 attacks or 3 attacks+hazards, overall both good mons. Moltres is still decent, albeit much more toned down then in DPP. More offensive pressure, less defensive counterplay that isn't curbstomped by the metagame. It also has Hurricane now which will be nice for stuff like Milotic or Gastrodon.
Gyarados does Gyarados things, but isn't A material because fat waters just laugh at it. Finally, Rotom sits comfortably to annoy fatter things with subwisp and can do choice sets pretty well and has Trick access.

B+ rank
This is where I'm starting to care less about this post because I'm losing sleep for pokemon. Essentially, I piled all the mons that were decent but not good enough for A ranks in here, as well as put PGZ+Exploud in here because being able to delete everything isn't helpful when half of everything outspeeds you and deletes you. Mesprit is essentially the lovechild of Cresselia and Mew, can do Rocks+Uturn+Healing Wish+W/e among other things, but it's pretty cool on some builds. Spdef Umbreon actually beats Cress some of the time and helps to counteract the Psychic invasion of UU, though im pretty sure CM deletes you still. Gallade has good coverage and is only really help back by lack of physical bulk and a middling speed tier of 80. Gardevoir is slightly better but its also held back by lack of bulk and speed, although having Fairy STAB is always a bonus. Gastro and Hippo both are decent grounds that suffer from big issues, mainly being passive as heck. Venusaur is like one of 3 usable grasses, has access to sleep and has a way better speed tier than Vileplume. Could meme with SD Venu I guess but prepare to have your ass eaten by Bronzong. Primeape is just old Passimian without Knock Off: strong, decent pivot, fighting type, monke.

B_and B- rank
These are all mons that are barely usable, but some are more barely usable then others and are separated as such. Rotom-Heat is ass. Stall is not that great down here because everything lost Toxic and Chansey lost eviolite, so its really hard to make progress for stall right now. Maybe it'll get better as the meta develops, but who knows. I don't feel strongly about any of these mons one way or the other really.

Anyways, thanks for reading, let me know what you think, and have a good day/night.
 
So far I have indeed loved playing this tier. Even used the never seen Tropius with some actually surprising results.
Tropius @ Lum Berry
Ability: Harvest
252 Atk/4 Spd/252Speed
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Leaf Blade
-Dragon Hammer
But anyways I also used Swellow as my Guts Facade abuser. HOWEVER I wanna give props to another abuser of statused boosted stab Facade, Ursaring.
Ursaring has a very high 130 base attack to utilize strong normal stab, not to mention 2 incredible abilities to utilize getting statused in the after mentioned Guts as well as Quick Feet. Sure even Quick Feet boosted it isnt outspeeding Jolly Swellow, however Swellow dosent come close to how supendously strong Ursaring is, and that isnt mentioning if the ringed bear is able to get a Swords Dance off. If it ever happens to do the hokey say goodnight.
The Ursaring set I might run is something like,
Ursaring @ Flame Orb
252 Atk/4 Spd/ 252 Speed
Nature: Jolly or Adamant
Guts or Quick Feet
-Swords Dance
-Facade
-Crunch
-Protect/Filler
Crunch is really nice cause its able to hit the levitating Bronzong with its steel nerf, as well as Metagross. Maybe the filler can be EQ to hit Registeel, or anything else really. Sure I like Swellow and will always use it on my teams but I would honestly like people to give the bear a shot. You will be surprised.
 

Twilight

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I've played a couple of games and this has honestly felt like one of the most balanced metagames I've experienced from a tier that just formed. I've climbed to 1350+ hitting rank 2 as of now and feel I have played enough games to solidify some opinions.


Salamence is personally the only Pokemon I think that should be looked at soon. It honestly isn't that bad to deal with as some might think but it is still an extremely difficult Pokemon to pivot into solely because the only Fairy-types are Gardevoir and Granbull. It has the ability to get through the Steel-types in the tier with mixed sets. The bulky Water-types should pretty much all run Ice Beam imo so they can help limit its ability to sweep/break; however, they aren't long-term checks.


Blastoise is kinda insane and probably needs to be watched carefully. The best answers are the bulky Water-types but they also don't do much back to it anyways. No Toxic on a bunch of them makes it a lot scarier than it would be otherwise.


I think Registeel is the premier bulky Steel-type Stealth Rock setter. I personally think it is better than Brozong because Thunder Wave lets you punish offensive switchins compared to Bronzong. Bronzong does have cool options like Psychic; however, for Pokemon like Heracross. Registeel is a great way to deal with stuff like Mismagius, Gardevoir, Raikou, etc.


Probably one of the best defensive walls in the tier on both spectrums. Due to Suicune lacking Pressure it opens up Milotic to be a better defensive Water-type. Though people should honestly stop using Flame Orb on it. Just switch it into Scald and if you get burned then you can at least offset it with Leftovers recovery.


Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Roost / Aura Sphere

Mew is extremely versatile as pretty much everyone knows. It can be a great utility Pokemon with Defog or Stealth Rock. Options like Ice Beam and Psychic have been my premier options on those sets. I'd like to highlight this Nasty Plot set. It honestly only really needs two attacks to get through most Pokemon in this tier so the recovery with Roost is great for out-trading stuff like Milotic etc. None of the Dark-types bar Umbreon, which Aura Sphere bounces off of, are that bulky anyways.


A Pokemon I have not seen highlighted yet is Roserade. The number of good Grass-types is pretty small imo and I consider this to be one of the best ones to splash onto a build. It is also one of the few Spike setters in the tier. It is a great check to Rotom-C and the bulky Water-types in the tier. The main downside is that Synthesis is really nice for reliable recovery but you are left unable to pressure Steel-types, so you have to pick between that or Sleep Powder/Stun Spore.


Flygon is epic and can fulfil multiple roles for your teams from Choice Scarf, Choice Band, Dragon Dance, Mixed, Bulky pivot. Even with Salamence in the tier, I think Flygon still shines as one of the best Pokemon right now. U-turn alone gives it so many advantages + not having the Stealth Rock weakness.


Yeah, this Pokemon just clicks. There is barely anything capable of switching into it besides Neutralising Gas Weezing. STAB Megahorn is really important that sets it above every other Fighting-type because it can blow through Mew and Cresselia.

Some honorable offensive mentions (too lazy to write about them all) that people should not sleep on are Houndoom, Mismagius, Porygon-Z, Gallade, and Absol. I'll end the post with a couple of teams I have liked.


A Specs Gardevoir team. Knock Off is just there because it is a broken move and removing Leftovers from Registeel, Bronzong, and Slowking is great. Pretty basic Rocks set for Registeel. Flygon provides Defog support and can bring Gardevoir in safely with U-turn. Rotom-C gives Speed control and forms a VoltTurn core. Toxicroak is something I wanted to try because I was seeing a lot of these bulky Water-types that were mostly limited to Scald + Ice Beam. Priority Sucker Punch is also very useful. Finally, Milotic as that all-around glue.


Nasty Plot Houndoom squad. There are very few Pokemon capable of answering Doom. I went with Sucker last because priority is really useful and it can potentially pick off a Salamence etc. Roserade was explained above but it gives Spikes support and pressures stuff like Milotic for Houndoom. Zapdos isn't that great of a Pokemon tbh but it provided some nice utility with the Speed tier + typing + Defog support. I think this is the best set you can run on it. SpD Pert helps against stuff like Nidos, Raikou, Houndoom, Special Mence. Gallade helps get past some specially defensive walls for my original core. I went for Muscle Band just for the damage boost without the LO recoil. Finally, Scarf Mismag because it is one of the few things faster than DD Mence.


Drapion has a pretty unique typing and is again another one of those Pokemon that can be difficult to outright wall after an SD boost. It is nice for punishing all of these Cresselia, Metagross, Bronzong, Mew, etc. I've been seeing. Lum Berry for those burns you need to avoid. Metagross gives a secondary pivot into these Psychic-types because Drapion has no recovery. It also gives SR support. Moltres has a great typing and STAB combo, one of the better Fighting resists. I went with a bulkier set with Defog because it can beat most SR setters. Donphan is added for insurance removal and Ice Shard is important for Salamence and Flygon given this build is slower. Scarf Mowtom as Speed control and then Milotic for the same reason as the first team.
 

Specs

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Peaked at around 1333 so just about top 10, been liking this meta a lot

:salamence:
Mence is the obvious #1 thing that should go, it warps building and just leads to either having to dedicate multiple slots to checking it defensively or you need to play extremely well positionally through the whole game. Easy QB or suspect, its insane that it's even down here but this is how alphas go

:blastoise:
Blastoise is really insane but has more answers, I would like to see how the tier adapts post mence. Idt it sets up that easily without screens, and with them you have phasing and haze on Milo (really good glue btw, saves you a ton of mu's in just one slot) Blastoise really benefits from the lack of Toxic, Tox Tect would be a bitch to it but oh well

:torkoal: (and friends)
Sun is really really good but has serious issues defensively, Torkoal is really lackluster and often can't spin away hazards reliably at all. Sun overall does warp building, just not to the extent that I think mence does. I faced it around 5 times during my ladder sessions and never felt unbeatable despite me using around 5 different teams, idk maybe its just a me thing. Still a play style to keep a close eye on though, the builds might be more customizable than I either think or have seen

These to me are the only question marks atm as to whether they're healthy or not. The meta seems really diverse and am looking forward to more discussion
 

SBPC

stranded on an island
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
well got to 4th highest on ladder before peaking at 1398 running exclusively stall, meta is a blast, just wanted an excuse to post my team but I'll throw some short opinions on the meta
Screenshot_20211203-181341.png

:granbull: :quagsire: :cresselia: :tentacruel: :hippowdon: :umbreon:
(squad if anyone wants it)

:salamence:
This thing has absurd snowball potenial, but I've had a pretty decent time running up against it on ladder with defensive teams but I agree that seeing it go wouldn't hurt the meta, easily the most warping thing in builder period.

:cresselia:
Cress is literally immortal and honestly one of my favorite mons to build with period, but this is definitely one of the best mons in the tier right now, Toxic is super limited and CM sets can just clean house so easily with how little there is to really put a stop to it.

:torkoal:
Sun is sun, does sun things, really I don't see it being an issue once the tier stabilizes but I'll echo the sentiment of it being incredibly strong, but I've never had much issue handling it with any team.
 
Oh my god BDSP is the gift that keeps giving these metas are so fucking fun


Mence is busted straight up, but everyone knows that. Ive been using adamant banded mence on sticky webs as a suicidal breaker (kinda like banded staraptor in OU) and it just melts everything.

252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 223-264 (56.5 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Donphan: 282-333 (73.4 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Claydol: 231-273 (71.5 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And honestly Outrage + Earthquake is all you need on band mence, giving you two slots to play with. I usually run Dragon Claw + Fire Blast, but you can run anything. Its probably very good as an offensive defogger, you could run Roar on hazard spam teams, you could run Edge but I dont think that hits anything that Outrage doesnt. Its just a brilliant pokemon, very easy to snowball with, especially vs offensive teams if you have webs up. This definitely needs to get banned but its really fun to play with as long as its here.


Yanmega is fucking scary in this tier. I think Speed Boost is probably overrated, as Mega really likes the power boost of Specs. Tinted Lens Specs has some insane calcs like


252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magneton: 270-318 (112 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Arcanine: 244-288 (76 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 178-211 (52.6 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Yanmega Bug Buzz vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mantine: 150-178 (40.2 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Its just scary. If this thing gets in on a slowbro or a mag setting up a sub (most common set Ive seen so far, and Bug Buzz ignores sub), it just threatens so much. You really really need to be vigilant with hazard control though, luckily we have a semi-good collection of spinners, both offensive and defensive. I would say dont use a defogger on Yanmega teams as it really loves hazards helping it break, especially with the lack of boots in this meta.

Speaking of hazards:

Stealth Rock:

So these are probably your best bets for SR. Hippowdon is amazing, probably my favorite setter in the tier, it can really shine in a meta without Gliscor forcing it to run Ice Fang. Might be a little hard to fit on more offensive teams, but thats why you have options. Bronzong is great if you want a dragon check and a rocker in the same slot, just watch out for Mag. Bronzong can also use its other slots for whatever, you can have it set up weather, screens, trick room, whatever. Its the best rocker for those kinds of teams cause it has all of those options. Donphan is the best user of Spin + Rocks (Forry no longer gets rocks) and its great for role compression. I just hesitate to name it the best rocker because it has so many responsibilities in this tier (dragon check, rocker, spinner, knock off spammer) that it gets spread a little too thin if you focus on it as your only rocker. I would say its a fantastic back up rocker thought, and one of my favorite pokemon in the tier. Swampert is the same swampert everyone knows and loves, Im surprised I havent seen more of it. It doesnt do great against the drag spam in the tier rn, but its still good at its job, idk why people be sleeping on it. Shuckle is there because webs are heckin stromk in BDSP and it does a fantastic job of keeping hazards up as long as you play to its strengths. Do NOT use Final Gambit Shuckle, it should not be just thrown away, because one of its strengths is being able to consistently come in and throw up hazards time and time again due to its amazing defenses. Infestation + Knock is good, you can trap something while taking the hit then switch out to your breaker / defensive answer without fearing a double switch. Steelix is a more extreme version of Bronzong that trades endless utility for more offensive presence and insane physical defense. The electric immunity seems to be amazing as well, but in practise i have seen like 1 electric type in this tier so far as it was spin blocking Rotom so its not as relevant as you might think. Mew is Bronzong that goes all in on utility but the trade-off is being noticeably worse against dragons, which is imo a trade off that is not worth it in the tier as it stands currently.

Spikes:

Dont run Omastar guys pls. Anyways, Forry is a good spiker, but its kinda in the same vein as Donphan as a Rocker. It just needs to do too much, and the metagame is so offensive that it doesnt really get the turns it needs to make it worthwhile. I like Cloyster as a spin-spiker much more because of this; it has the offensive presence necessary to generate those free turns for it to do its thing. It does come at the oppurtunity cost of not running the Shell Smash set, but imo Cloysters Smash set is wayyy better in OU than it is in UU where the presence of mence has made people overprepare for physical sweepers (whereas in OU the presence of Latios has made people overprepare for special breakers, which lets physical sweepers like Cloyster do well). Froslass is a good lead, but the lead metagame is kinda meh. Its good if you wanna spike and spinblock in one teamslot, but its wayyy too frail to spinblock effectively, and the only good spinner it matches up well against is like Claydol. Its also worth mentioning that Froslass is the only spiker on this list to not also have access to Toxic Spikes. I love Roserade as a spiker in theory (I have not used it yet) because Im the kind of girl who thinks anything with a sleep move is really neat, and being able to absorb t-spikes, check Donphan and Claydol, use Toxic and absorb status seems really good in theory. Hell, you could run Sleep Powder / Spikes / Leaf Storm / Stun Spore to REALLY mess up offensive teams with status, which seems like a fun idea in theory. Qwilfish is the suicide spiker that Froslass wishes it was, and Intimidate can probably give it a buffer vs certain threats, although nothing in particular jumps out at me rn.

Toxic Spikes:
(+Spikers-froslass)

First off, I think its fucking hilarious that between Nidoqueen and Drapion, I would consider Nidoqueen to be the offensive TSpiker and Drapion to be the defensive one. Secondly, Nidoqueen is probably the only logical choice for TSpiking in this tier. The Spikers all have other stuff they would rather be doing, with the notable exception of Qwilfish, but I feel like Qwilfish is so suicidal as a hazard mon that you will always have to choose between spikes and tspikes, so I would rather not rely on it for a tspike team. Nidoqueen also has the benefit of providing rocks, and Rocks + TSpike is way more justifiable than Spikes + TSpike imo. I dont think TSpike is particularly strong in UU, because I havent seen too many balance teams, but it could be nice for like helping Salamence break slowbro or something. I think if youre running TSpikes, the only option is Nidoqueen, outside of veeery niche cases like being very afraid of Mismagius so you run Drapion or using stall (lol) so you run Weezing.

Sticky Web:

Shuckle supremacy
(dont run Smeargle, its bad, dont run Masquerain, its even worse. Just stick to shuckle, and love it, and it will love you back and let your exploud destroy the tier with its mighty mighty boombursts. Say amen and thank Shuckle every night before going to sleep, lest you wake up covered in cobwebs, unable to move as it slowly digests you to make Berry Juice with.)

Rapid Spin:


When talking about spinners, I think Donphan is prob ably the best. Forry is good too because of all the dragon spam going on in the tier, but its very easily taken advantage of and doesnt really have any offensive presence outside of volt switching to your breakers. Cloyster is interesting cause of its insane defense even uninvested, allowing it to run like Spin / Spikes / Icicle Spear / Ice Shard or something along those lines, but the SR weakness makes that job harder than it needs to be I think. Blastoise is a good spinner, but Id rather use the Smash sets if im going Toise cause it can break through stuff like Bronzong and other steels that Cloyster gets hard walled by. Claydol I have not used but its probably a worse Donphan imo. It could be nice as a levitating spinner that isnt completely broken apart by special attackers, but i think the meta rn is wayyy too offensive for Claydol rn. Same goes for Tentacruel, altho that might have a niche as the fastest spinner in the tier. I think those are the only spinners worth mentioning prolly.

Spinblocking:


As for spinblockers, Ive seen Rotom, Mismagius and Spiritomb so far. Spiritomb is probably the best defensive spinblocker unless you wanna run defensive Dusknoir ig, but I havent seen much of that. Mag is really scary offensively, and you definitely dont want to give it a free switch in so its a really good blocker as it discourages spin just by being alive, kinda like Gar in OU, and I think thats why its probably my favorite blocker so far. Sure, Spiritomb will stick around for longer, but it also doesnt really do anything apart from maybe wisp and pain split while its on the field. Rapid Spinning into Spiritomb isnt really an issue, you can just switch out and try again later. Rapid Spinning into Mismagius is scary, because youve just given it a free turn to Sub or plot or just attack and thats really scary rn imo. Im looking at the tier list rn while typing this and I honestly dont know why Dusknoir isnt being used as a blocker. It seems solid on paper, but maybe Im missing something. Froslass, I touched on briefly before but I REALLY dont like it as a spinblocker, it only matches up well against Claydol, and it doesnt have the offensive presence of mismagius to justify its frailty. You could argue its good vs Donphan too, but Knock OHKOs froslass and Icy Wind only does half back, so you need Donphan HEAVILY chipped for it to be effective, and at that point you dont even need to spinblock, just KO it with something else to stop the spin. You could run Ice Beam to negate this, but at that point youre just sacrificing utility and trying too hard to make it useful. If Froslass has to Destiny Bond and kill itself to deny a spin, its not a good spinblocker imo.

Dont Use Defog:
Reading this so far, you might be wondering why I havent touched upon Defog at all so far; given that its probably the more widespread hazard control method in later gens. Well, first off, I think hazards are insanely good in UU rn, and defogging away your own hazards should only be an emergency method and not your first stop on the hazard train. Secondly, we just dont have that many good defoggers in UU rn I think. Mew and Zapdos are probably the best, but Zappy is hard walled by any ground type (such as, wink wink, Donphan), and Mew is vulnerable to every single kind of hazard in the game and thus not very good control imo. You have Flygon, who is probably the best bet for a defogger, being the most hazard resistant pokemon in the tier, but if youre looking for that niche you might as well run Claydol as a spinner and keep your hazards, as this lets you run Flygons MUCH better Choice Scarf set instead. You could maybe slot Defog onto offensive mons like Honchkrow or Salamence or hell even Scarf Flygon, but I just dont see any scenario where those same offensive mons would want to get rid of the hazards that help them break. Crobat is an option??? I guess??? But not a good one, its too easily pressured and taken advantage of, and Im not sure what youd even get a defog off on. Mantine is probably good once the meta settles but rn its wayyy too physically offensive for poor Mantine to get anything of value done. I just dont see what you would use as a Defogger that is better in its role as a defogger than any of the spinners, who all bring something unique to the table. Not wanting to get Spinblocked is understandable, but honestly just find a way around the ghosts and dont waste a teamslot on Defog. Run it on your scarf Flygons incase of an emergency, but dont rely on it as your only form of hazard control. That yanmega will suffer if your hazard control is defog.

Magic Bounce:
You have espeon and Xatu. Xatu is fucking annoying for every spiker and most rockers, but its easily pressured. Espeon has a worse matchup against every individual setter, but its more offensive and can be nice. I have not used either of these mons, and I would not rely 100% on them for hazard control, but they could be interesting. Would love to build more teams around these two in the future.

Spinda:
How am I just now finding out that Spinda gets rapid spin thats fucking hilarious ignore every word of this write up and use spinda as your sole hazard control please please let drunk bear be the #1 spinner in the tier we can all work together to make this happen
 

Amane Misa

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I've been messing around in the high ladder last two days and I wanted to make a personal viability list of Pokemon that I think have a niche. I might have missed a few Pokemon because I'm doing this on my phone.
- SD destroys stall and Specs is hard to switch into. As for screens, I'd rather use Xatu or Espeon.
- Shell Smash is dangerous, but a defensive set can also work.
- Shell Smash.
- Calm Mind or TR.
- amazing speed tier, checks flying, and can probably break stall.
- he's good at the start of every generation because everyone spams HO at the beginning of every generation.
- offensive Rapid Spin seems cool.
- A good suicide lead for HO with an amazing speed tier, Rock Tomb and Memento.
- cb sacred fire.
- screens, cm or specs. Even 3 attacks can probably work.
- no switch-ins. Modest can 2HKO physdef Chansey with SR and Timid 2HKOes Chansey with Focus Blast. It also has an amazing coverage.
- fast, good typing and uturn.
- stallbreaker or spikes lead.
- specs is really hard to switch into.
- DD with options like Substitute or Taunt.
- Guts.
- it's a defensive behemoth.
- I've seen NP on the ladder a couple times and it looks alright. Its speed tier is kinda bad though.
- BD + Extreme Speed on Screens.
- same as Heracross but might just be straight up outclassed by it.
- cb/scarf.
- offensive SR or CB.
- I've only used Substitute + NP but this can make a lot of sets work.
- not sure about that one since it lost Toxic but it still has good defenses.
- np with options like Substitute or Taunt. Good speed tier, too. Choice Specs is pretty good because of the lack of Dark-types in the tier.
- always been hard to switch into.
- its good every generation.
- it walls a lot of setup sweepers.
- fast + CM.
- defensive, but I've used rp + sd on Screens.
- dd, but defensive is also quite nice.
+
- defensive, maybe cm or av.
- Curse is really dangerous and hard to stop after a boost without a fighting type.
- CB is pretty good thanks to the speed tier and a good stab combo. It's not as good as Weavile is in OU but it's still really nice.
- screens + magic bounce + teleport.
- specs.
- zapdos is always good.
+
- I've seen it a few times and it looks alright.
 
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So I wanted to discuss the two elephants in the room (not sun, your time will come eventually), Salamence and Cresselia. However, Salamence is an iffy one for me. I don't think I'm capable of expressing my thoughts on the mon with the end result of everyone understanding what I want to say. One side of me says "the mon is ridiculous and it needs to be banned. Snowball potential is immensely high and the set variation leads to lost games if you lie under one assumption." The other side says "I've been experimenting with a combination of checks and it turns out, it's not that bad to a certain extent." So instead, I'm going to discuss just Cresselia, the mon that people think need a suspect/qb but since the beginning, I've always thought it doesn't require any action on at all. Let's get into why.


From my experience of being in the BDSP Metagames chat and noticing certain people's opinions, it seems to be that people have an issue with Cresselia's bulk firstly. Cress is a very bulky mon, 120/120/130 is large for a defensive mon plus it has reliable recovery, immunity to spikes and a good support movepool. This leads it to have a very good Calm Mind that can easily win games on its own if allowed to set up. Cress also appreciates the immensely nerfed distribution of Toxic so it has a very good time setting up on the tier's defensive pokemon. This is the set that people mainly have an issue with and the reason it warrants a ban. But let me ask you this. Why are you letting it set up in the first place to the rate that it demolishes your team?

Cress may have amazing bulk but with that bulk comes with extreme passivity and below average speed. Don't get me wrong, it still has base 85 speed and for a defensive mon, that's very good but without investment, it's slow. UU is home to a plethora of highly dangerous offensive mons, both on the physical and special side. A good amount of these strong breakers beat Cresselia without much issue and can switch in on it most of the time. Guts Heracross, Specs Exploud and Porygon-Z, Mismagius, Yanmega, Absol, Houndoom and more. On a consistent basis, they land the 2hko minimum on Cress and stop any attempt of using Calm Mind to overwhelm them and their team. I can't understand how anyone can say Cress is "too much to handle" or "it destroyed my team, I couldn't break it." We have the options. A lot of them. It's down to good teambuilding to not lose to Cress. And it is not even like I'm running any of those mons I mentioned for the sake of "just beating Cress." Most of those mons have their place solidified in the meta and everyone knows they're good.


If anyone is pro-ban or suspect for Cresselia, I would love to see your side of the argument because I'm unable to see why this mon is apparently so much of an issue. It's a top tier mon for sure but isn't too much for this tier.
 
Guess I'll share my experience so far, since I've gotten decently high on the ladder.

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It should be no surprise to anybody that the Dragon-types are pretty strong. With a lack of reliable fairies to stomach their STABs, you have to justify not having one of them on your team.

Critdra is absolutely absurd to play around. Critical Hit boosted Draco Meteors and Surfs are nothing to scoff at. Not even bulky Water-types can really switch into its STABs safely, as even specially defensive Milotic gets 2HKO'd. If it weren't for its middling Speed stat, I'd probably think it should be quickbanned. For now, it definitely deserves some watchful eyes to see how it develops in the metagame.

Flygon really hasn't changed at all. It still does its classic Choice Scarf tricks and acts as a good pivot, but now it can optionally act as a pretty solid Defog user and a bulkier check to the likes Raikou and Rotom-Mow. Without a doubt, this will absolutely be the more balanced Dragon.

Salamence is the more blatantly centralizing force in the metagame currently, and one that I feel is rather imbalanced thanks to its solid offensive prowess. Moxie causes such an easy snowball effect in the late game that it almost feels like an auto-win. That's also not including the insanely customizable Salamence's sets can be, with choices like Fire Blast and Iron Tail for the few resists available, Items like Choice Band, Scarf, Life Orb, Lum Berry, Yache Berry etc. I'd be all for this thing being banned, I just don't see the positives of keeping it in the tier.


:exploud::zangoose::ambipom::porygon-z:

Out of all the offensive types available to UU, I was a little shocked at first at just how disgusting most offensive Normal-types are right now.

Exploud wakes up every day choosing violence. Scrappy Boomburst is laughably spammable and has very, very few actual downsides. The only issue with Exploud, its natural speed-tier and only decent Special Attack can be remedied somewhat by running it on Sticky Web or Trick Room builds, which basically flips the script on its faster checks.

Facade from Zangoose is probably the second most disgusting move to click, right behind Exploud's Boomburst. This is another easy fit on webs or Normal-spam teams that want a strong hitter. It also gets plenty of useful offensive options like Close Combat or Night Slash for resists to Facade, or stuff like Swords Dance and Quick Attack for sweeper sets. Belly Drum also seems kind of cool, although the presence of so much priority sort of neuters this set before it can get a sweep going.

Ambipom honestly surprised me at how useful it's been. Technician Fake-Out is no joke right now, and with plenty of cool move pool options like Double-Hit, Shadow Claw, Seed Bomb etc. for common switch-ins adds some uncertainty to its sets. This thing also pairs pretty well with the Rotoms as a part of Volt-Turn core. Definitely expect to see this thing on the ladder, probably 4/5 of the games you get.

Porygon-Z is very similar to Exploud, in the sense that it's basically a nuke that nothing really wants to switch-in versus. It might not have Scrappy, but Adaptibility Tri-Attack all the same hits for insane damage, and it still has coverage in Shadow Ball for the Steel-types and Ghosts. DualDance sets are pretty nice, but Specs Download is also extremely deadly that has just about zero switch-ins if you get the Special Attack boost.

The most interesting part of the Normal-types for me is that there's also a wide range of options. Snorlax is great as a bulky win condition, and Swellow and Tauros look to be plenty strong as wallbreakers. I wouldn't even be surprised if others like Ursaring or Kangaskhan end up having some sort of niche down the road.


:probopass::magneton:

Something that piqued my interest was the prospect of Magnet Pull for the previously mentioned Dragons and Normals. Probopass in particular has actually performed decently well in testing. This set aims to provide teams with Stealth Rock, while potentially either eliminating opposing Steel-types like Bronzong or Steelix with Magnet Rise + Taunt, or weakening them to the point they cannot safely check your offensive threats. Magneton I still need to do some testing on, but unlike Probopass, it can utilize Magnet Rise to sit on would be checks like Donphan or Hippowdon (can also effectively trap Registeel unlike Probopass). Definitely will be interested in further testing these guys out.

:blastoise::donphan::entei::gardevoir::mismagius:

I don't really have a lot to say on these guys that others haven't highlighted, but these are all excellent in the meta right now. I've especially been liking AOA Donphan for how effectively it can pull off the spin and either force chip with EQ, knock the opponent's item or revenge kill the Dragons with Ice Shard.

More than likely I'll post more when I further play the meta, but overall it's been really fun so far.
 
Bounced around between #5 and #9 on ladder the past couple of days (peaked at early 1400s and then got tilted thanks to Salamence being a huge pain in the ass and a lucky Porygon-Z) so I figured I should share some of my thoughts on certain Pokemon and the current meta.

Team: :heracross: :roserade: :registeel: :milotic: :flygon: :gardevoir:

Idk if it's sample-worthy or anything, but I hope it at least somewhat portrays what's good in the meta.


:ss/Salamence:

This is just blatantly broken (personally think it should be QBed instead of suspected considering the collective agreement on how warping it is, but I digress). Between its sheer power and all the different sets it can run, it's obnoxiously difficult to check it consistently, especially when the pool of pokemon that can pivot in on it and actually threaten it back is already limited. DD is already hard to deal with considering the lack of pivots that can comfortably eat Mence's boosted Outrages and Earthquakes (not to mention the only viable Fairy is Gardevoir) along with the fact that none of the tier's decent scarfers can outspeed and remove it at +1 (Flygon speed ties so it's a 50/50 and the rare Scarf Mismagius needs Destiny Bond which is abusable). This doesn't even include the mixed/special sets and CB which are just as hard to deal with while also smacking most checks you have for DD as well as techs I've seen like Yache and Lum Berry that keep stuff Donphan and bulky waters from cutting your sweep short.


:ss/roserade:

I've been really enjoying Roserade recently. It's the only offensive Spiker in the tier (other than Froslass, but that's always used as a suicide lead lol) and beats a lot of the popular hazard control options like Donphan. Steels aren't too big of a problem tbh since none of them like being hit with Sleep Powder and all of them barring Bronzong get chipped quickly by Spikes. I'm currently experimenting with Giga Drain over Leaf Storm to try to further offset chip from switching in to check stuff, especially with how popular Ice Beam is on bulky waters like Milotic, but overall very solid mon.
Wouldn't be surprised if this becomes the premier Spiker for the tier.


:ss/cresselia:

So I wanted to discuss the two elephants in the room (not sun, your time will come eventually), Salamence and Cresselia. However, Salamence is an iffy one for me. I don't think I'm capable of expressing my thoughts on the mon with the end result of everyone understanding what I want to say. One side of me says "the mon is ridiculous and it needs to be banned. Snowball potential is immensely high and the set variation leads to lost games if you lie under one assumption." The other side says "I've been experimenting with a combination of checks and it turns out, it's not that bad to a certain extent." So instead, I'm going to discuss just Cresselia, the mon that people think need a suspect/qb but since the beginning, I've always thought it doesn't require any action on at all. Let's get into why.


From my experience of being in the BDSP Metagames chat and noticing certain people's opinions, it seems to be that people have an issue with Cresselia's bulk firstly. Cress is a very bulky mon, 120/120/130 is large for a defensive mon plus it has reliable recovery, immunity to spikes and a good support movepool. This leads it to have a very good Calm Mind that can easily win games on its own if allowed to set up. Cress also appreciates the immensely nerfed distribution of Toxic so it has a very good time setting up on the tier's defensive pokemon. This is the set that people mainly have an issue with and the reason it warrants a ban. But let me ask you this. Why are you letting it set up in the first place to the rate that it demolishes your team?

Cress may have amazing bulk but with that bulk comes with extreme passivity and below average speed. Don't get me wrong, it still has base 85 speed and for a defensive mon, that's very good but without investment, it's slow. UU is home to a plethora of highly dangerous offensive mons, both on the physical and special side. A good amount of these strong breakers beat Cresselia without much issue and can switch in on it most of the time. Guts Heracross, Specs Exploud and Porygon-Z, Mismagius, Yanmega, Absol, Houndoom and more. On a consistent basis, they land the 2hko minimum on Cress and stop any attempt of using Calm Mind to overwhelm them and their team. I can't understand how anyone can say Cress is "too much to handle" or "it destroyed my team, I couldn't break it." We have the options. A lot of them. It's down to good teambuilding to not lose to Cress. And it is not even like I'm running any of those mons I mentioned for the sake of "just beating Cress." Most of those mons have their place solidified in the meta and everyone knows they're good.


If anyone is pro-ban or suspect for Cresselia, I would love to see your side of the argument because I'm unable to see why this mon is apparently so much of an issue. It's a top tier mon for sure but isn't too much for this tier.
This honestly sums up my thoughts on Cress, but I also wanted to add that it's not too hard to check it defensively either. Cores like Registeel + Haze Milotic that are already naturally good pretty much ensure that Cress will have an exceptionally difficult time doing anything with its pitiful base 75 SpA. It's also worth mentioning Cresselia's reliance on Moonlight for recovery (Resttalk is even more passive and no coverage for Dark-types sucks) is also abusable thanks to its low PP (there's also the weather factor, but the only relevant mon for that is Hippowdon so) when considering the amount of hits it'll probably take in the long game when having to setup multiple Calm Minds to pose a threat. I personally think Cress isn't too hard to pressure with how offensively-paced the metagame is currently, but I'm not opposed to the idea of keeping an eye on it later if things slow down later on.

That's all I have to say for now, other than that this a really fun and diverse metagame and I can't wait see how it evolves overtime!
 
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