Bellyama!

Jediment

Jediment

Theorymon commence.

Out of all the Pokemon who learn Belly Drum, Hariyama has the highest attack. He's also quite bulky (not as much as Snorlax, but still quite sturdy). He also has access to a priority move, Bullet Punch (which CAN be obtained with Belly Drum, because Belly Drum is a level up move). Combine that with being an amazing Tyranitar counter and general bulkiness and Bellyama is a force.

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Thick Fat, Impish
-Belly Drum
-Protect/Rock Slide
-Bullet Punch
-Cross Chop/Brick Break

EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD

Even with no Atk EVs and a neutral nature, Hariyama reaches over 1100 attack. Combine it with Bullet Punch and you've got a lot of damage with nice priority. The lack of recovery hurts Bellyama, but Protect can help you avoid taking damage and ease prediction sometimes. Rock Slide is there to prevent Gyarados from ruining your day. The Fighting move is basically a filler, since Steel hits most types neutral anyway. Brick Break and Cross Chop are really interchangeable.

Calcs:
Jolly DDtar v. Bellyama - Stone Edge (1 DD): 25.2%-29.7%
Jolly DDtar v. Bellyama - Crunch (1 DD): 20.33%-23.8%
Adamant DDdos v. Bellyama - Waterfall: 42.3%-49.6%

I'll post offensive calcs in a bit. For now, discuss.
 
SMZ

SMZ

Nice, although the coverage isn't much, it still counters important things like 'Tar and Weavile.
 

BeachBoy

I like Bellyama, just becuase it can Belly and use a priority move, which is very productive....unlike poor azumarill...

I would go cross chop over CC as the drop in Defenses and poor speed hurts it...though really isn't a big deference as Bullet Punch is the main move.

like M p said, coverage isn't that great, but nice set IMO.
 

GengarCrysis92

I see your point for the set. But what use is Protect? Eq or stone Edge would be better to hit more types. And why would you need Close Combat? It has a bad effect and Brick Break, although weaker, doesn't have that effect and can still OHKO everything Combat hits with BellyDrum. It would work, but you need speed passed.

EDIT: I really like the move BellyDrum. Charizard is the best imo because it has good speed and access to amazing coverage. I will test this with a jolteon speed passer if you want.

EDIT2: Can anyone think of a good speed passer, either berry or Agility/Rock Polish, that can also set-up good subs?

Edit3: So, i was playing around and came up with this possible set for a Bellyama:

Hariyama @ Salac Berry
Impish: Thick Fat/ Guts
252 Hp/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
Belly Drum
Brick Break
Bullet Punch
Protect/Double-Edge/T-Punch/F-Punch/Stone Edge or Rock Slide/EQ

Basic BellyDrum set. The ev spread makes you bulky enough to get down to BellyDrum and Salac Range. Brick Break for STAB and no side effects. When using a BellyDrummer, you don't want to lose defences. You need to be as bulky as possible. Bullet Punch to get rid of Weaville and T-Tar if you don't have Salac yet.

the last part is what your preferences are. Protect is if you believe they have a move that WILL OHKO you and you want to scout. Double-Edge is the risky way of getting into Salac range. T-Punch and F-Punch are basically coverage for flying/water for the former and Steel/Grass/Bug/Ice for the latter. Stone Edge and Rock slide are stronger T-Punches in retrospect, but are inaccurate, which you might not want. EQ covers Fire/Poison/Steel.

EVs: You want to be bulky. So a lot of HP and Defenses. You won't need attack because after BellyDrum, you will hit 1100.

Opinion: This has a lot of potential to work, but for it to work effectivly, you need to be passed speed. Gliscor and Shedninja are good options here.
 
Jediment

Jediment

You don't really need speed passed too much since you'll be using Bullet Punch most of the time. On things like Tyranitar, where Brick Break is significantly more effective (Bullet Punch comes up just barely short of an OHKO), Hariyama is bulky enough to withstand a hit, even with low health.
 
Articanus

Articanus

Zapdos is an awesome Sub+ Agility passer.... however, without T-Bolt, Skarm phazes it, and without HP Grass, Swampert does
 
Karrot

Karrot

plant
is a Past WCoP Champion
Most things that switch into Zapdos will be countered by baton passing to Hariyama, so in theory you do not need Substitute.

Celebi still beats this, so a nice pursuiter will come in handy.
 
AJC

AJC

doesn't it oh wait it can't have bullet punch and a elemental punch...god damn it gamefreak give us our 4th gen elemental punch tutor already D:

however for Celebi one could use payback if you catch it on a switch it eats a SE 100 BP attack

or faint attack..if you chain with a toxicroak that has bullet punch but then again these are just mainly stop gag measures for Celebi
 

GengarCrysis92

What about Knock-off?

EDIT: Knock-off/Faint Attack and Payback. Can someone do calcs to see what they would do to common Pokemon in OU with Bellydrum?

EDIT2: I tested it, and if I didn't make the stupid mistak of Bullet Punching a Jirachi, it would have been carried much further. Bullet OHKOs Alakazam, so no worries for that demon Psychicing you to death.

EDIT3: I'm seeing Cresselia/Dusknoir/Celebi as Potential destroyers of Bellyama, so these are DMG clacs for the moves against them:

BellyDrum + Payback to a Cress [252 Def/32Hp (31/31)] deals: 60.67% - 71.47%
BellyDrum + Faint Attack to a Cress [252 Def/ 32 p (31/31)] deals: 72.75% - 85.35%

BellyDrum + Faint Attack to a Dusknoir [252 HP/76 Def/180 SpD (31/31/31)] deals: 100%- 117.69%
BellyDrum + Payback to a Noir [252 Hp/76 Def/180 SpD (31/31/31)] deals: 83.67% - 98.30%

BellyDrum + Payback to a Celebi [220 Def/ 252 Hp (31/31)] deals: 67.82% - 79.70%
BellyDrum + Faint attack to the same Noir deals: 81.19% - 95.54%

So, one major threat, Dusknoir, is OHKOed by Faint attack. But the others are 2HKOed. I will do the calcs for a Bellyama with 6+ atk, and see how much attack it needs.
 
Deck Knight

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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Yeah, Bellyama doesn't work for 3 reasons:

1. UnSTABBed Bullet Punch is walled very easily.

2. Hariyama is still incredibly slow.

3. At 50% HP Hariyama can be OHKO'd by many threats.

To put it in perspective: After a Belly Drum, Bullet Punch is equivalent to a 160 Base Power Steel type move.

In other words, it's only slightly stronger than Cross Chop, and inferior to Focus Punch on my preferred set, Subpunching Utility Hariyama. (Or Subpunching Bulk Up Hari depending on my team)

Nevermind the fact that overall Bulkiness would be improved by dumping all the EVs you have in HP into Special Defense, but if you just want physical Bulkiness that's fine.

Belly Drum -> Bullet Punch has a lousy risk/reward ratio. It only hits Weavile, Tyranitar, and Mamoswine SE in OU, and does nothing to Steel walls.

I mean, your Calcs didn't even include TTars most likely attack on Hari if it stays it: Earthquake. Gyarados also walls it to hell.
 

cornflake

Too bad Hariyama does not get Mach Punch or it'd be really deadly due to STAB + BD + whatall.

Bullet Punch as the primary attack is iffy, to say the least.
 

helldemon123

yeah but on poor azu, belly drum + aqua jet is an illegal combo since one move is a emerald move tutor move and one is a bred move. also this might have some potential, i sometimes use hariyama as my defensive tank, so i'll try it out on shoddy one of these days. my problem with it is that its too slow, there are a lot of things that can take a bullet punch and OHKO back
 

GengarCrysis92

I'm going to say you need an Adamant Hariyama to effectivly take down Celebi and Cress. Which means, Zapdos/Gliscor/Ninjask are needed for speed.
 

GengarCrysis92

Thats true, but then it is walled by Cress and Celebi. :/ this doesn't look possible. I mean, I had it set-up, OHKOing Cress with Faint Attack, I have 110 Atk and 200 Hp/200Def. But I was poisoned, so I got only two down. I had 2 Agilities passed, so speed isnt that bad. Its possible, but hard.
 
Jediment

Jediment

In terms of Rock moves, Rock Slide seems like a much preferable option, since Stone Edge's accuracy is off-putting in a situation where you have low health.

Hariyama's base Def and SpD are the same, and this set is designed to switch in on Tyranitar (who will switch out of Hariyama at least 99% of the time in fear of subpunch).

It seems that you calculated Payback before it gets the power boost (that you get from attacking second). Otherwise it would have done much more damage than Faint Attack.

Deck Knight said:
To put it in perspective: After a Belly Drum, Bullet Punch is equivalent to a 160 Base Power Steel type move.
Click to expand...
I think you applied the attack boost improperly. Bullet Punch will always remain a base 40 steel move with positive priority; Belly Drum changes Hariyama's attack stat (bringing it up to just over 1100).
 
Little Green Yoda

Little Green Yoda

Belly Drum essentially quadruples the Att stat. I believe the Attack stat and the base power of the move are multiplicative in the damage formula so assuming the base power of the attacks are quadrupled is basically the same thing.

Even if the rounding down of numbers at various points in the damage calculation changes it, that should still give a good approximate estimate.
 
Fishin

Fishin

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Exactly why is it using a Salac Berry with no speed EV's?

Anyways, I'm a bit skeptical. You're not outspeeding much and Hariyama at 50% health isn't exactly hard to take down. Even with 1100 attack Bullet Punch isn't anywhere near strong enough to sweep teams.
 

GengarCrysis92

Well my version is backed up by an Agility passed. So the salac will easily make it faster. Let me put it this way. Weaville = Dead. Alakazam = Dead. The only counters are Cress, Noir and Celebi. Those are taken down by Faint Attack and Adamant and 50 Atk Evs.
 
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