The Team
Introduction
I've always thought BellyZard is incredibly fun to use in Gen 2, and I've always wanted to build a team around it. I've put a lot of thought into this team and it's held up well through 50 or so matches. It might not the best team of all time, but it's definitely competitive against all varieties of teams. I've made a few changes since my original design and I think it's about as good as a Charizard team is going to get, but I'd love to hear suggestions of ways to make it better!
Details
Snorlax @ Leftovers
-Double-Edge
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Lovely Kiss
This is a MixLax variation. My first iteration of the team had Selfdestruct in the last slot, but I kept running into Pokémon like Umbreon, Suicune and Blissey that would just tank Snorlax hits forever, and I'd be forced to Explode on them. Lovely Kiss allows Lax to neutralize one of those pokemon without sacrificing itself, and it can also be used defensively against a troublesome opponent if need be. I've also experimented with Belly Drum in that moveslot, that can be effective but it is a bit frail. I think Lovely Kiss is superior but perhaps with better play Drum would be the better option.
I also tried CurseLax for a bit and it was a complete disaster. CurseLax is fundamentally a wall, and is a horrible fit for this fast-paced offensive team.
Anyway, this Snorlax is an absolute monster, and most teams are not well-equipped to deal with it. Putting it in the lead slot puts immediate pressure on the opponent and usually tells me a lot about their plan for defending Snorlax. Quickly scouting the opponent is crucial for success with this team, so that's valuable.
It doesn't have Rest, so do NOT let this thing get poisoned. Paralysis is not great obviously but usually is acceptable, and comes with the benefit of sleep immunity.
Exeggutor @ Leftovers
-Psychic
-Giga Drain
-Explosion
-Stun Spore
This was the last member of the team I settled on, and probably the most replaceable. Nevertheless it's been growing on me as I use the team more. Electrics love to switch into it, so you can incapacitate or kill them with Stun Spore or Explosion, which REALLY helps set up a Charizard sweep. It's also a nice Marowak check, and usually checks Machamp as well, which is otherwise a problem for this team. I had HP Fire to deter Skarmory originally, but without Giga Drain Egg is completely helpless against Tyranitar, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Useful Pokémon but its low speed is frustrating, and it dies quite easily to way too many things. If I were to replace it I would probably go with Gengar or something fast. Gengar has similar issues though, and its Explosion is weaker.
Cloyster @ Leftovers
-Surf
-Explosion
-Spikes
-Reflect
Cloyster is fantastic on this team. Spikes is very helpful for putting things in KO ranges, but it's not necessary to have. 10/10 times, if the opponent tries to Rapid Spin against it with Starmie, you Explode on it. Starmie is one of the best Charizard counters and taking it out is a huge boost to the team. Fortunately, most teams treat Spikes as the #1 priority and will almost gladly trade Starmie for it. Cloyster can also Explode on electric types, Snorlax and opposing Cloyster. It's usually a good idea to hit opposing Cloyster with Surf first however, because if they switch on the Explosion, it's still in Charizard Fire Blast KO range.
The last move on Cloyster is always sort of filler, but I find Reflect to be helpful situationally. It extends Cloyster's longevity, gives the switch more bulk, and eases prediction.
Finally, Cloyster is an excellent check for Ground types like Marowak, and also (like Exeggutor) a great emergency defensive option with Explosion.
Raikou @ Leftovers
-Thunder
-Hidden Power Ice
-Roar
-Rest
Raikou is absolutely necessary on this team. It's my only phazer, and as such is my go-to option for dealing with Misdreavus and Jolteon. Generally those teams try to paralyze Raikou or force it to use Rest, so my backup plan is just to keep hitting them hard. Raikou is usually good for at least a couple Roars against those teams, which is usually all that's needed. Roar is also helpful offensively if Spikes are down.
Raikou is my best counter for a number of offensive threats including Vaporeon and Charizard. Thunderbolt is preferred over Thunder in those situations, but Thunder is absolutely necessary for this Raikou as it spreads paralysis around to switch-ins like Exeggutor, Snorlax, and most importantly, opposing Electrics. Charizard needs those electrics to be incapacitated to be useful.
For a while I had Reflect over Hidden Power Ice, and it was very useful, but it left me with no options against Ground switch-ins, and Nidoking in particular was a huge problem. I miss Reflect but HP is definitely necessary. HP Ice also makes the Zapdos matchup a lot more comfortable.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
-Pursuit
-Toxic
-Charm
-Rest
Umbreon is criminally underrated (this version at least, the Mean Look set is garbage). It is hands-down the best all-purpose wall in Generation 2, and completely shuts down most offensive threats, including Snorlax (non-Drum) and Zapdos. This Pokémon has a huge margin of error and often can take a crit and keep on rolling. Paralysis and poison are usually irrelevant because most things can't punish it when it Rests. CurseLax in particular is so helpless against Umbreon that even if it switches in on an Umbreon Rest, it still needs a crit to win before Umbreon wakes up, uses Charm, and Rests again. It's the perfect pivot Pokémon and allows my team to stick around long enough while I scout the opponent and execute my offense.
The other great thing about Umbreon is that unlike most elite GSC walls, it has an offensive role. It's a small role, but it's a superb Gengar assassin. Gengar is another surefire Charizard counter, and Umbreon can completely take it out of the game with Pursuit. It also walls Exeggutor completely, although Sleep Powder and Explosion can take it out of the game, which often can be what the opponent is trying to do.
Frequently I find myself in matches where it's down to 1v1 or 2v2 and I still have Umbreon. Umbreon is great at stalling the opponent out in these scenarios.
The main things to watch out for with Umbreon are Machamp, Heracross, Swords Dance, Growth and Belly Drum. Other than those threats it's pretty much indestructible.
Charizard @ MiracleBerry
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Belly Drum
Finally, the host of the party. BellyZard at +6 attack can take down the majority of the meta, although some things need a little chip damage to be in OHKO range. As the game goes on, Charizard Fire Blasts can become increasingly threatening, and he can even function as a kind of mixed sweeper without Drumming against a team with reduced health. Still, it's best to leave Zard on the bench until his counters have been dealt with, especially since he doesn't have Leftovers. MiracleBerry allows Zard to set up without worrying about Toxic, Lovely Kiss, or Body Slam paralysis ruining his fun, and I feel pretty confidently that it's the best item for it.
It can be hard to know the best time to pull to trigger on a Charizard sweep. Usually conditions aren't perfect, and you end up relying on a Zapdos Sleep Talk not selecting Thunderbolt, or Fire Blast hitting 3 times in a row, or the opponent's last unrevealed Pokémon not being a Starmie. It often helps to intentionally let something die to get a free switch-in for Zard; otherwise switching in on an opponent's Rest is a good method.
Even if Charizard fails to complete the sweep, he can often take out 1-2 troublesome opponents, and that is often enough for my supporting cast to finish the job. I've actually experimented with running Hyper Beam over Rock Slide. As stupid as it sounds, it basically functions as Explosion with more setup, and allows Zard to OHKO things like Snorlax and Suicune with minimal prior damage. Still, I think Rock Slide is the better option, as Hyper Beam is just begging for a Skarmory switch.
Top Threats
Nidoking: I don't have anything that can take Sleep, and several of my pokemon can't switch into Nidoking safely. I usually just have Umbreon take sleep since he can't hurt Nidoking anyway. Fortunately, Nidoking doesn't switch in well to most of my team, so once Lovely Kiss is used I can usually fend it off with smart play.
Heracross: The RestTalk set in particular is hard for my team to deal with, as it hits everything very hard except for Charizard, who doens't have Leftovers. It also outspeeds my Explosion users. If the opponent has Heracross I make eliminating it the #1 priority. Often that means trading Snorlax for it, but that's not a death sentence for this team. Again, as with Nidoking the silver lining is that it won't stop a Charizard sweep once it gets going (it does need a bit of chip damage for the Fire Blast OHKO).
Machamp: Basically a less threatening version of Heracross. Exeggutor deals with non-HP bug versions well, and Umbreon can outspeed it and use Charm (crit Cross chop is still a threat). Also, unless it's the rare RestTalk set you can just keep hitting it and/or poison it and won't last too long. Still, it needs to be respected.
Mixed Sweepers: Many of these can carry DynamicPunch and can hax themselves to victory. Against teams that run a lot of mixed sweepers, I abandon the goal of a Charizard sweep, and focus on doing as much damage as I can, because those teams have little in the way of defense. This is one situation where it can make sense to bring out Zard early.
Sleep: As I said before, I have nothing on the team that can take sleep. Deciding which Pokémon is the best to sacrifice to it is still something I'm working out. A lot of times I have Umbreon take the sleep as it has a reasonable chance to wake up before being KO'd, but this greatly hurts my teams' overall defensive viability and reduces its margin of error. Still, it's something I've been able to consistently overcome, so I don't think it's necessary to add a RestTalker.
Steel/Poison Types: These pokemon love to switch in on Umbreon because they can't be harmed by it. So, you just need to be mindful of the opponent's switch patterns and don't leave Umbreon out for longer than you have to. It's not a stall team anyway, so Umbreon shouldn't really be out for long periods of time.
Conclusion
I honestly love this team, and I hope other people start using it too. It takes skill to use and time to get used to, but it's a great feeling when you play it successfully. Let me know what you guys think!
Introduction
I've always thought BellyZard is incredibly fun to use in Gen 2, and I've always wanted to build a team around it. I've put a lot of thought into this team and it's held up well through 50 or so matches. It might not the best team of all time, but it's definitely competitive against all varieties of teams. I've made a few changes since my original design and I think it's about as good as a Charizard team is going to get, but I'd love to hear suggestions of ways to make it better!
Details
Snorlax @ Leftovers
-Double-Edge
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Lovely Kiss
This is a MixLax variation. My first iteration of the team had Selfdestruct in the last slot, but I kept running into Pokémon like Umbreon, Suicune and Blissey that would just tank Snorlax hits forever, and I'd be forced to Explode on them. Lovely Kiss allows Lax to neutralize one of those pokemon without sacrificing itself, and it can also be used defensively against a troublesome opponent if need be. I've also experimented with Belly Drum in that moveslot, that can be effective but it is a bit frail. I think Lovely Kiss is superior but perhaps with better play Drum would be the better option.
I also tried CurseLax for a bit and it was a complete disaster. CurseLax is fundamentally a wall, and is a horrible fit for this fast-paced offensive team.
Anyway, this Snorlax is an absolute monster, and most teams are not well-equipped to deal with it. Putting it in the lead slot puts immediate pressure on the opponent and usually tells me a lot about their plan for defending Snorlax. Quickly scouting the opponent is crucial for success with this team, so that's valuable.
It doesn't have Rest, so do NOT let this thing get poisoned. Paralysis is not great obviously but usually is acceptable, and comes with the benefit of sleep immunity.
Exeggutor @ Leftovers
-Psychic
-Giga Drain
-Explosion
-Stun Spore
This was the last member of the team I settled on, and probably the most replaceable. Nevertheless it's been growing on me as I use the team more. Electrics love to switch into it, so you can incapacitate or kill them with Stun Spore or Explosion, which REALLY helps set up a Charizard sweep. It's also a nice Marowak check, and usually checks Machamp as well, which is otherwise a problem for this team. I had HP Fire to deter Skarmory originally, but without Giga Drain Egg is completely helpless against Tyranitar, which is unacceptable in my opinion.
Useful Pokémon but its low speed is frustrating, and it dies quite easily to way too many things. If I were to replace it I would probably go with Gengar or something fast. Gengar has similar issues though, and its Explosion is weaker.
Cloyster @ Leftovers
-Surf
-Explosion
-Spikes
-Reflect
Cloyster is fantastic on this team. Spikes is very helpful for putting things in KO ranges, but it's not necessary to have. 10/10 times, if the opponent tries to Rapid Spin against it with Starmie, you Explode on it. Starmie is one of the best Charizard counters and taking it out is a huge boost to the team. Fortunately, most teams treat Spikes as the #1 priority and will almost gladly trade Starmie for it. Cloyster can also Explode on electric types, Snorlax and opposing Cloyster. It's usually a good idea to hit opposing Cloyster with Surf first however, because if they switch on the Explosion, it's still in Charizard Fire Blast KO range.
The last move on Cloyster is always sort of filler, but I find Reflect to be helpful situationally. It extends Cloyster's longevity, gives the switch more bulk, and eases prediction.
Finally, Cloyster is an excellent check for Ground types like Marowak, and also (like Exeggutor) a great emergency defensive option with Explosion.
Raikou @ Leftovers
-Thunder
-Hidden Power Ice
-Roar
-Rest
Raikou is absolutely necessary on this team. It's my only phazer, and as such is my go-to option for dealing with Misdreavus and Jolteon. Generally those teams try to paralyze Raikou or force it to use Rest, so my backup plan is just to keep hitting them hard. Raikou is usually good for at least a couple Roars against those teams, which is usually all that's needed. Roar is also helpful offensively if Spikes are down.
Raikou is my best counter for a number of offensive threats including Vaporeon and Charizard. Thunderbolt is preferred over Thunder in those situations, but Thunder is absolutely necessary for this Raikou as it spreads paralysis around to switch-ins like Exeggutor, Snorlax, and most importantly, opposing Electrics. Charizard needs those electrics to be incapacitated to be useful.
For a while I had Reflect over Hidden Power Ice, and it was very useful, but it left me with no options against Ground switch-ins, and Nidoking in particular was a huge problem. I miss Reflect but HP is definitely necessary. HP Ice also makes the Zapdos matchup a lot more comfortable.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
-Pursuit
-Toxic
-Charm
-Rest
Umbreon is criminally underrated (this version at least, the Mean Look set is garbage). It is hands-down the best all-purpose wall in Generation 2, and completely shuts down most offensive threats, including Snorlax (non-Drum) and Zapdos. This Pokémon has a huge margin of error and often can take a crit and keep on rolling. Paralysis and poison are usually irrelevant because most things can't punish it when it Rests. CurseLax in particular is so helpless against Umbreon that even if it switches in on an Umbreon Rest, it still needs a crit to win before Umbreon wakes up, uses Charm, and Rests again. It's the perfect pivot Pokémon and allows my team to stick around long enough while I scout the opponent and execute my offense.
The other great thing about Umbreon is that unlike most elite GSC walls, it has an offensive role. It's a small role, but it's a superb Gengar assassin. Gengar is another surefire Charizard counter, and Umbreon can completely take it out of the game with Pursuit. It also walls Exeggutor completely, although Sleep Powder and Explosion can take it out of the game, which often can be what the opponent is trying to do.
Frequently I find myself in matches where it's down to 1v1 or 2v2 and I still have Umbreon. Umbreon is great at stalling the opponent out in these scenarios.
The main things to watch out for with Umbreon are Machamp, Heracross, Swords Dance, Growth and Belly Drum. Other than those threats it's pretty much indestructible.
Charizard @ MiracleBerry
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Belly Drum
Finally, the host of the party. BellyZard at +6 attack can take down the majority of the meta, although some things need a little chip damage to be in OHKO range. As the game goes on, Charizard Fire Blasts can become increasingly threatening, and he can even function as a kind of mixed sweeper without Drumming against a team with reduced health. Still, it's best to leave Zard on the bench until his counters have been dealt with, especially since he doesn't have Leftovers. MiracleBerry allows Zard to set up without worrying about Toxic, Lovely Kiss, or Body Slam paralysis ruining his fun, and I feel pretty confidently that it's the best item for it.
It can be hard to know the best time to pull to trigger on a Charizard sweep. Usually conditions aren't perfect, and you end up relying on a Zapdos Sleep Talk not selecting Thunderbolt, or Fire Blast hitting 3 times in a row, or the opponent's last unrevealed Pokémon not being a Starmie. It often helps to intentionally let something die to get a free switch-in for Zard; otherwise switching in on an opponent's Rest is a good method.
Even if Charizard fails to complete the sweep, he can often take out 1-2 troublesome opponents, and that is often enough for my supporting cast to finish the job. I've actually experimented with running Hyper Beam over Rock Slide. As stupid as it sounds, it basically functions as Explosion with more setup, and allows Zard to OHKO things like Snorlax and Suicune with minimal prior damage. Still, I think Rock Slide is the better option, as Hyper Beam is just begging for a Skarmory switch.
Top Threats
Nidoking: I don't have anything that can take Sleep, and several of my pokemon can't switch into Nidoking safely. I usually just have Umbreon take sleep since he can't hurt Nidoking anyway. Fortunately, Nidoking doesn't switch in well to most of my team, so once Lovely Kiss is used I can usually fend it off with smart play.
Heracross: The RestTalk set in particular is hard for my team to deal with, as it hits everything very hard except for Charizard, who doens't have Leftovers. It also outspeeds my Explosion users. If the opponent has Heracross I make eliminating it the #1 priority. Often that means trading Snorlax for it, but that's not a death sentence for this team. Again, as with Nidoking the silver lining is that it won't stop a Charizard sweep once it gets going (it does need a bit of chip damage for the Fire Blast OHKO).
Machamp: Basically a less threatening version of Heracross. Exeggutor deals with non-HP bug versions well, and Umbreon can outspeed it and use Charm (crit Cross chop is still a threat). Also, unless it's the rare RestTalk set you can just keep hitting it and/or poison it and won't last too long. Still, it needs to be respected.
Mixed Sweepers: Many of these can carry DynamicPunch and can hax themselves to victory. Against teams that run a lot of mixed sweepers, I abandon the goal of a Charizard sweep, and focus on doing as much damage as I can, because those teams have little in the way of defense. This is one situation where it can make sense to bring out Zard early.
Sleep: As I said before, I have nothing on the team that can take sleep. Deciding which Pokémon is the best to sacrifice to it is still something I'm working out. A lot of times I have Umbreon take the sleep as it has a reasonable chance to wake up before being KO'd, but this greatly hurts my teams' overall defensive viability and reduces its margin of error. Still, it's something I've been able to consistently overcome, so I don't think it's necessary to add a RestTalker.
Steel/Poison Types: These pokemon love to switch in on Umbreon because they can't be harmed by it. So, you just need to be mindful of the opponent's switch patterns and don't leave Umbreon out for longer than you have to. It's not a stall team anyway, so Umbreon shouldn't really be out for long periods of time.
Conclusion
I honestly love this team, and I hope other people start using it too. It takes skill to use and time to get used to, but it's a great feeling when you play it successfully. Let me know what you guys think!