[BH] Primal Groudon [QC 1/3]

BH Primal Groudon Analysis


[Overview]

• Exceptional physical bulk with base 160 Defense and passable 90 Sp. Defense, which means it can tank most physical hits from some of the most powerful threats in the BH metagame such as Mewtwo X, Mega Tyranitar, Kartana and Regigigas.
• Outstanding offensive stats with 180 Attack and 150 Sp. Attack in conjunction with its typing makes it one of BH's deadliest threat and it can even run a lure set.
• Primal Groudon is also hard to scout because of its large variety of sets and few resistances to its STABs alone.
• Its new typing Fire / Ground is literally the best offensive coverage available, having access to STAB V-create and Thousand Arrows.
• Fire / Ground also has a myriad of useful resistances to common attacking types such as Fairy, Electric and Fire. It also gives an immunity to Burn which is fantastic for a physical attacker.
• With the introduction of Zygarde it can no longer spam its Fire-type moves and walled naturally by Zygarde's huge bulk.
• Its mediocre base 90 Speed and Special Defense lets it easily be revenge killed by special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gengar after a bit of prior damage.
• Its 4x weakness to water leaves it very weak to even non-STAB Scald from walls.


[Stakeout]
Groudon-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Bolt Strike / Sunsteel Strike

[Moves]

• V-create nukes most things, and paired with stakeout the opponent will be hard-pressed to consistently switch in walls.
• Thousand Arrows is a great spammable stab with close to non-existent resists. Along with V-create these are the moves Pdon will be spamming most of the time.
• Draco Meteor hits the omnipresent Zygarde and Giratina that like to switch into Pdon.
• Bolt Strike can get a surprise kill on Pogre and Yveltal.
• On the other hand, Sunsteel Strike lets Pdon ignore Fur Coat and can damage the otherwise relatively safe Mega Audino switchin. It also kills shedinja.

[Set Details]

• This Pdon set acts as a fantastic lure to most of its common answers such as Zygarde and Giratina, capable of removing them consistently because they are the very few mons that is able to wall most Pdons.
• Stakeout abuses Primal Groudon's natural ability to force switches to hit incoming mons harder.
• Although it lacks the raw power of band sets, it makes up for it with its wide coverage and ability to punish switches with Stakeout.
• Despite the coverage's effectiveness at luring common checks, it can be tweaked so that imposters are more manageable, such as by replacing Draco Meteor with Ice Beam and Sunsteel Strike so Water-types such as Mega Slowbro can handle it better.

[Usage Tips]

• Most walls such as Giratina and Zygarde will usually recover after switching in from even an resisted but Stakeout-boosted life orb attack so do not be afraid to go for a coverage move such as Draco Meteor afterwards.
• if lacking the damage to finish a weakened opposing mon, it is also quite safe to had switch into a wallbreaker as they will probably try to recover.
• because of the high damage potential even two moves can deal to a switchin, hazards are a great asset to maximise this set's potential.
• because of life orb, it is more important to keep hazards off your field to preserve Pdon as well as possible.
• Imposters are a very big threat, as they will force you out and gain your coverage and the boost from stakeout.
• off meta sets such as Mega Slowbro, Fur Coat Mega Gyarados or Mega Audino and Flash Fire Tapu Bulu must be used depending on coverage to wall this set.
• It is slightly easier to imposterproof Pdon if Precipice Blades is used over Thousand arrows, as flash fire flying types such as Celesteela or Yveltal will be immune to its STABs. However, opposing FF Celesteela can wall you and it isn't uncommon.
• Most imposters do not carry Life Orb so it is considerably easier to deal with them.

[Team Options]

• Bulky Hazard setter such as Giratina or Mega Audino can lay hazards to maximise opposing forced switches and also breaks sashes.
• Similarly Hazard removal is also appreciated as although Groudon is bulky, Life Orb is detrimental to its survivability.
• on a similar vein, Wish support can preserve Pdon which otherwise is crippled by Life Orb and no recovery.
• U-turn support lets Pdon safely switch into a mon it threatens and make full use of its Stakeout ability.
• due to Stakeout and coverage, a dedicated imposter check must be kept healthy at all times.


[Choice Band Wallbreaker]
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- U-turn / Switcheroo
- Ice Hammer


[Moves]

• V-create is with a band is an extremely powerful nuke which will completely tear down most walls. Very few mons such as Giratina, Mega Slowbro and Zygarde-C are able to avoid the 2HKO.
• Thousand Arrows is one of the most spammable move ever as very few mons resist it. Resisted V-create does the same as neutral Thousand Arrows however so it should only be used against Flash Fire users or against other Pdons. The only other time V-create shouldn't be used is to avoid the speed and defense drops.
• Ice Hammer is a great move to hit the ever popular Zygarde and to a lesser extent Giratina.
• Switcheroo cripples its common walls such as Giratina and Zygarde with a Choice item.


[Set Comments]

• With a Choice Band, Primal Groudon is able to almost OHKO every relevant mon in the BH tier with the exception of Flash Fire / Primordial Sea users, Giratina, Zygarde-C and Mega Slowbro with V-create.
• Adamant is an alternative option to more easily break through Giratina, allowing Pdon to 2HKO after some prior damage. but the base 90 speed tier is crowded with many other relevant mons such as Pogre, Dialga, other Pdons, Zekrom and Giratina so Jolly is recommended.
• Tinted Lens makes Pdon very hard to wall, as common resists to fire such as Giratina and Zygarde can no longer rely on their resistance to safely wall Pdon's V-create.


[Usage Tips]

• Tinted Lens Primal Groudon is one of the strongest wallbreaker in BH, so against bulkier teams the best way to utilise it is to pivot it in safely as often as possible.
• be wary of walls carrying Knock Off as Primal Groudon's band allows it to perform its role much more effectively.
• Bring in to any slow walls and particularly steel types such as Registeel and Solgaleo to force them out and nuke their fire resist.
• Although Primal Groudon is very bulky physically, the opponent may capitalise on its lowered defences after using V-create by capitalising on a switch-out turn by setting up.
• the only time you should use u-turn is on the rare occasions your opponent has something to wall Pdon. In particular, when your opponent has a bulky Fur Coat or Flash Fire mon.


[Team Options]

• Hazard complements Groudon, as it not only often force switches but also helps it OHKO bulkier mons such as Regigigas and Mega Gyarados. It's is also crucial to wear down Fur Coat mons such as Giratina as even with Fur Coat, lens V-create can 2HKO after some prior damage.
• Ate users especially Kyurem and Mega Diancie are great partners for Primal Groudon because they break down physical walls such as Giratina and Zygarde walling Primal Groudon while it breaks down the Steel types walling the ate user.
• Other physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X and Regigigas can both lure or help Primal Groudon break through its checks.
• Banded Pdon is best brought into slower walls which it threatens, so putting u-turn on mons walled by steel types such as Rayquaza or Mewtwo Y complements it very well.
• because of Pdon's relatively slow speed, paralysis support can be very helpful to allow Pdon to outspeed and OHKO otherwise faster mons.


[Choice Scarf]
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant / Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- U-turn / Bonemerang / Magma Storm / Solar Blade
- Ice Hammer


[Moves]

• V-create is a powerful move which lets Pdon revenge kill fast but relatively frail mons such as the Mega Mewtwos and Mega Gengar. The speed drop is crippling in a scarf set but the power is necessary.
• Thousand Arrows is far weaker than v-create but it lets Pdon avoid the speed drop while also being powerful enough to revenge kill weakened mons and being extremely spammable.
• Bonemerang is more considerable on Scarf sets as it bypasses Subs and Sash.
• although Magma Storm is a special move, it traps switchins and can severely damage physically defensive walls such as Mega Slowbro while also killing shedinja.
• Ice Hammer is a very important move, as it lets Pdon revenge kill non-triage Mega Ray, a popular mon in the BH meta.
• Switcheroo can cripples walls against slower teams when Scarf is unneeded.
• Solar Blade with Desolate Land negates Solar Blade's recharge turn but should not be used without it as the recharge turn is extremely detrimental. It's only real use is to beat Pogre with ice beam more safely but otherwise is better replaced with the other options.


[Set Comments]

• Desolate Land rids Primal Groudon of its 4x water weakness and boosts Fire-type moves more than Adaptability.
• Choice Scarf let's Pdon be a great revenge killer, patching up its middling speed and letting it outspeed every relevant mon in the tier.
• Adamant is a more considerable option on Scarf sets as even with it Pdon can still outspeed everything up to Mega Mewtwo Y. The only notable exception that Jolly does outspeed is Deoxys A and other adamant Scarfed Pdons.


[Usage Tips]

• With the removal of the EV limit, every mon has become bulkier. This means that killing mons has become harder despite Pdon's very powerful STAB V-create, so usually most mons need some prior damage before Pdon can reliably KO them.
• While Desolate Land is a great ability in booting Groudon's V-creates, it also works as an effective Water-check.
• be more careful around Knock Off as Primal Groudon can't outspeed any fast mons without a scarf.
• Bring in to weakened fast threats to gain momentum with U-turn or kill them.
• even with a scarf Pdon can still threaten bulkier teams because of its powerful STABs. Tricking a wall such as Giratina the choice scarf also forces them to be locked into recovery after switching in to wall Pdon.


[Team Options]

• Hazard support pairs well with Pdon because it puts opposing mons in range of V-create.
• it is important to note that because of Pdon's middling speed, it can't outspeed boosted threats even with a choice scarf so a mon which can deal with setup sweepers such as unaware mega audino or spectral thief Giratina should be used as well.


[Contrary]
Groudon-Primal @ Splash Plate / Earth Plate
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- V-create
- Fleur Cannon
- Judgment
- Superpower / Sunsteel Strike / Overheat

[Moves]

• With Contrary, V-creates downside now is a fantastic upside which makes Pdon not only fast but also very hard to kill.
• Fleur Cannon allows Pdon to boost its already great special attack further and beat dragons such as Zygarde, Giratina and Rayquaza.
• Judgment is mostly used to beat Pdon's own imposter and other Pdons. While Ground gets STAB and has more use outside of hitting imposters, Water lets Pdon OHKO its imposter at +2 provided it is unboosted.
• Superpower boosts Pdon's Attack and lets Pdon beat Fur Coat Chansey.
• Sunsteel Strike, although will not be boosted hits Mega Audino super effectively, a common choice for an unaware user in BH.
• although Overheat is overshadowed by V create, it complements Judgment and Fleur Cannon very well and is a perfectly viable alternative.

[Set Comments]

• This Pdon set is very effective at sweeping in the late game. After 1 V-create, Pdon is able to outspeed every relevant mon in the meta while also becoming very bulky, able to shrug off -ate boosted espeed relatively easily.
• The set also makes use of Pdon's often overlooked Special Attack, which is Usually unexpected and can be devastating.
• with Judgment this is one of the few Pdon sets able to check itself.
• Rash is preferred because it lets +2 Pdon OHKO unboosted imposters every time and +1 imposters after rocks with Water Judgment.
• Rash also has a much higher chance to OHKO giratina with +2 Fleur Cannon and a chance to OHKO Zygarde, assuming they are physically defensive.

[Usage Tips]

• V-create is usually the best move to begin sweeping with, as it provides Pdon it's much needed speed boost alongside boosting up its defenses, making it very hard to kill.
• Fleur Cannon always 2HKO Zygarde and Giratina on the switch so most of the time it's usually safe to click it if you know your opponent will be switching out.
• The best time to start sweeping is when your opponent's Pdon check is weakened and they don't know your set. This usually means they will sac something to bring in a revenge killer such as Mega Gengar or Mega Mewtwo, which are both invalidated after V-create's speed boost.
• be careful of unaware users with spectral thief as they can steal Pdon's boosts and potentially countersweep if they have baton pass.
• Scout for unaware users and weaken them because even unboosted, Pdon is still very powerful and can probably 2HKO them with vcreate unboosted anyways.
• Pdon isn't very fast so even after a speed boost from v-create most scarf mons can still outspeed, so it is a good idea to also check for scarfed mons.
• Prankster is one of the few ways to stop Pdon though DBond, spore and haze. Ideally they should be removed before Pdon attempts to sweep.

[Team Options]

• if running Earth Plate, Pdon will not usually be able to OHKO imposters and can potentially lose to them if they win the second tie as even unboosted Judgment does about 33%, so you will have to run an imposter proof mon such as Flash Fire Aegislash or Unaware Pdon.
• a mon which can weaken Pdon's common checks Zygarde and Giratina such as Kartana or Mewtwo X is very helpful to ensure the OHKO with +2 Fleur Cannon.
• Wish support is helpful as this set has no recovery.
• another setup sweepers synergizes well Keith Contrary, pressuring unaware users and also potentially baiting out the destiny bond from a prankster user.

[Unburden Belly Drum]
Groudon-Primal @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bonemerang
- Sunsteel Strike
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear


[Moves]

• Belly Drum is the crux of this set, maximising Pdon's attack while also lowering its HP into Sitrus Berry range for Unburden to activate.
• Bonemerang ignores sashes, a big advantage over Thousand Arrows which spammability is unnecessary in this particular set.
• Sunsteel Strike allows Pdon to bypass unaware which otherwise would wall it.
• Icicle Crash do not lower speed and has a nice chance to flinch unaware Zygardes and Giratina.
• Icicle Spear has 100% accuracy and OHKOs Zygarde while also bypassing sashes.

[Set Comments]

• Belly Drum in conjunction with Unburden lets Pdon easily sweep through even the bulkiest of teams.
• 224 Defense EVs are used to ensure the OHKO against imposters with +6 Bonemerang.
• Unburden lets Pdon outspeed imposters with Sitrus Berry, effectively making this set imposter proof.
• Sitrus Berry is highly recommended because it makes Pdon harder to be revenge killed by -ate users.

[Usage Tips]

• Although Belly Drum makes Pdon one of the best cleaner in the meta, it can only set up once with unburden so every unaware or prankster users should be removed before Pdon can attempt to sweep.
• you must absolutely avoid knock off because This Pdon only beats its imposter thanks to unburden and it won't be outspeeding any fast threats without the boost.
• Non unaware or Fur Coat Zygarde or Giratina are both OHKOd at +6 so the best time to set up in on their switchin.
• you want Pdon to be as healthy as possible after it belly drums so it can't be revenge killed by -ates therefore keeping hazards off your field is important.

[Team Options]

• A poison heal user such as Kyogre is recommended to mitigate Pdon's particularly large weakness to knock off. Kyogre can also pressure unaware and prankster users with scald burns.
• A psychic surge user such as Mewtwo Y can take advantage of the momentum after the times when Pdon will be revenge killed by an -ate user.
• this Pdon actually works well with other Pdons. Even if this Pdon is revenge killed it is usually likely they've already sacked their dedicated Pdon check so another Pdon can capitalise on that.
• slow pivots such as Registeel and Audino can bring in Pdon safely.

[Other Options]

• Sacred Fire, although it is significantly weaker than V-create, can be used to spread burns.
• although Precipice Blades can replace Thousand Arrows simply for more power. It's lower accuracy and less inability to hit flying-types generally makes Thousand Arrows the superior choice however.
• Bonemerang can be used to ignore sashes and preferably used in a scarf set. Again It isn't as common due to the same problems as Precipice Blades.
• Groudon is such a potent offensive mon that it can basically run any set, move or coverage under the sun.
• Adaptability with a band lets it hit everything harder with its powerful STABs, however Pdon will still struggle to beat Zygarde and Giratina.
• Pdon can even run a mixed setup sweeper set with Sheer Force because of its fantastic offensive stats but unfortunately V-create isn't boosted and with SF LO Earth Power you lose Judgment Ground which lets Pdon be imposterproofed much more easily, even perhaps imposter proofing itself.
• Pixilate, Galvanize and Refrigerate are all viable options, with Galvanize and Pixilated somewhat being completely imposter proof with earth plate judgment.
• It's natural bulk also allows it to pull off a Poison Heal set well. However, V-create goes against setting up and Core Enforcer along with Spectral Thief are very popular, hindering bulky setup.
• there are many more numerous options which can be run.


[Checks and Counters]

• Zygarde-C is arguably the best Primal Groudon check. With its titanic physical bulk and resistance to Fire, it can beat all Primal Groudon however must be careful of an Ice coverage.
• Giratina is on the same boat as Zygarde-C. Although not quite as bulky as it's predecessor, it doesn't have the crippling 4x Ice weakness which can be easily exploited.
• Mega Slowbro, although it is quite a niche and uncommon mon in the BH metagame can also take on Primal Groudon very well. Unlike the two mons mentioned above, Mega Slowbro has the niche of resisting Ice-type attacks so that it can wall an Impostered lure.
• Shedinja is a risky yet perfectly fine check to Pdon. However as it dies to any residual damage it is a very shaky check and should be used in conjunction with another Pdon check.
• Flash Fire and Primordial Sea users stop Primal Groudon from using V-create which allows them to wall Primal Groudon with more ease.
• because of Primal Groudon's exploitable mediocre Speed and Sp. Defense, fast and powerful special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Gengar and such can revenge kill Primal Groudon after a little prior damage.
• if lacking Desolate Land, it's 4x weakness to Water will let even walls 2HKO Primal Groudon with any sort of water move.
 
Last edited:
[url]http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-analysis-megathread.3592578/page-2#post-7189036[/URL]

I have finished editing this analysis for the BH ev change, largely it remains the same however I've removed the defensive desolate land set as water bubble has been banned and replaced it with a setup sweeper set. I've kept most of it the same so I may have missed a couple of things which changed about pdon since the ev limit removal but I'm pretty sure pdon hasn't changed much with the ev change in general. Although everything is bulkier, it's still able to 2hko everything and still OHKO frailer things such as greninja and gengar. The one thing which is a big change is the special attack increase. It allowed pdon to use its untapped special attack potential which is why I decided to replace the old set with setup (and also because pdon has always been good at sweeping anyways). I think that is all.

P.S do I need to remove my 1 QC because of the relatively big set change?
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-analysis-megathread.3592578/page-2#post-7189036

I have finished editing this analysis for the BH ev change, largely it remains the same however I've removed the defensive desolate land set as water bubble has been banned and replaced it with a setup sweeper set. I've kept most of it the same so I may have missed a couple of things which changed about pdon since the ev limit removal but I'm pretty sure pdon hasn't changed much with the ev change in general. Although everything is bulkier, it's still able to 2hko everything and still OHKO frailer things such as greninja and gengar. The one thing which is a big change is the special attack increase. It allowed pdon to use its untapped special attack potential which is why I decided to replace the old set with setup (and also because pdon has always been good at sweeping anyways). I think that is all.

P.S do I need to remove my 1 QC because of the relatively big set change?
Personal thoughts:

* In my case, I did because I already had 3 QC checks for Kyurem-W analysis, and I thought I needed to invest more time. I don't think you need an extra QC check, but you can if you deem it necessary. This is entirely up to QC team, however.
* Did you add Magnet Pull set? It is one of the best niche that Groudon can have in this metagame.
 
AM QC Check, comments bolded. There is a lot to fix here, in my opinion, formatting and information wise. Good start though.
[Overview]

• Exceptional physical bulk with base 160 Defense and passable 90 Sp. Defense, which means it can tank one hit from some of the most powerful threats in the BH metagame such as Mewtwo Y, Kyurem-B, Mega Gengar and Mega Rayquaza.
it can't really tank a psychic surge boosted psycho booost from mewtwo-y or a Mega rayquaza choice specs boomburst. Probably only mention physical attackers such as the afformentioned kyurem-b, mewtwo-x, kartana
• Outstanding offensive stats with 180 Attack and 150 Sp. Attack, it can even run a lure set.
Combine with previous bullet. It has great all-around stats and can tank a hit and then hit back really hard with both a physical set or a special luring set.
• Its new typing Fire / Ground is literally the best offensive coverage available, having access to STAB V-create and Thousand Arrows.
• It also gives an immunity to Burn which is huge for a physical attacker.
Combine with previous bullet, the burn immunity is because of the typing.
• Its mediocre base 90 Speed and Special Defense lets it easily be revenge killed by special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gengar after a bit of prior damage.
• Its 4x weakness to water leaves it very weak to even non-STAB Scald from walls.

[Choiced Wallbreaker/Revenge Killer]
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Tinted Lens / Adaptability / Desolate Land / Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
Adamant nature should be slashed first for consistency with the previous order you have (wallbreaker and choice band first)
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn / Ice Hammer / Precipice Blades
- Switcheroo / u-turn

[Set Comments]

General reorganization of this entire section, I've moved things around
[Moves]
-----
• V-create is an extremely powerful nuke which will completely tear down most walls. Very few mons such as Giratina, Mega Slowbro and Zygarde-C are able to avoid the 2HKO.
• Thousand Arrows is one of the most spammable move ever, only hitting Grass and Bug types not very effectively. However they are very uncommon in BH.
You probably don't need to mention them if they aren't common. It's great for hitting rock and flash fire steel-types.
• U-turn grabs momentum and scout for checks and is especially good on Choice Scarf sets as they lack the power Choice Band provides to 2HKO switchins.
• Ice Hammer can be used over U-turn to lure and put a huge dent on Zygarde and Giratina but it would force you to use a less viable mon such as Mega Slowbro for imposter-proofing.
Ice hammer only deals about 40% to standard Giratina which can easily be recovered off. Good for finishing it off though. Also a scarfed Ice Hammer can destroy unboosted Mega Rayquaza.
• Precipice Blades can alternatively also be used on non-Tinted Lens set to hit Fire-resists harder.
Best on tinted lens choice band set to 2hKO Giratina, which Tarrows can't do even with tinted.
• Switcheroo cripples walls with a Choice item.

[Set Details]

• Maximum Attack and Speed to hit as hard and be as fast as possible.
• Jolly is an option over Adamant to outspeed slower threats such as Adamant Regigigas and other Adamant Primal Groudon on the Band set and Deoxys-Attack, not fully invested Mega Tyranitar at +2 and slower mons in general at +1 on the Scarf set.
It's imperative to run jolly on the scarf set in order to outspeed Deoxys-s and Mewtwo-y and hit them hard with u-turn. Either nature works on the band set.
• Solar Blade can be used in Desolate Land sets for a reliable way to kill Water-types however it offers nothing else coverage-wise and has a small downside of potentially trapping you in if the opponent has a Primordial Sea user.
This move is bad, remove
• Tinted Lens allows it to break walls which resists its moves. Easy ohKO on giratina when banded after rocks
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 392-462 (77.9 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And when scarfed it's 2hKO: 252 Atk Tinted Lens Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 238-282 (47.3 - 56%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
Similar damage to zygarde-c, though it's alittle more bulky.

• Adaptability lets it hit non-resists harder.
It also hits walls a bit harrder too.
• Desolate Land rids Primal Groudon of its 4x water weakness and boosts Fire-type moves more than Adaptability.
• Stakeout boosts Primal Groudon's damage even more than Adaptability and Desolate Land if the opponent switches, not an uncommon occurrence when running either Choice Band or Choice Scarf.
I really don't like Stakeout, as Tinted Lens basically does the same thing even if the opponent decides not to switch. I guess it's good if you really want to lure Giratina or Zygarde c and ohko them with ice hammer, you'd still need a choice band to do that though.
• Jolly is preferred to outspeed the very large pool base 90 Speed mons in the BH metagame but Adamant can be an alternative option if a team absolutely needs the power.
Remove

[Usage Tips]

(General)
• Hazards complements Primal Groudon very well, because they help it break down bulkier walls and turns some important 2HKOs such as Mega Rayquaza into 1HKO on Choice Scarf sets.
• be wary of walls carrying Knock Off as Primal Groudon's item allows it to perform its role much more effectively.

(Choice Band)
• With a Choice Band and one of the listed abilities, Primal Groudon is able to almost OHKO every relevant mon in the BH tier with the exception of Flash Fire / Primordial Sea users, Giratina, Zygarde-C and Mega Slowbro with V-create.
• Bring in to non-resist walls like Registeel, Solgaleo and Mega Audino
• Keep healthy so it can live a hit from a threat and OHKO back.

(Choice Scarf)
• Using a Choice Scarf, Primal Groudon can be a very effective revenge-killer and late game cleaner, outspeeding and OHKOing many fast but frail threats such as the Mega Mewtwos, Mega Gengar and Ash-Greninja.
• if possible don't reveal scarf until you can get a surprise kill on something like Mega Mewtwo Y or Mega Gengar.
Use choice sscarf Groudon as a fast pivot into something else or to chip down frailer Psychic types such as Deoxys-a or MMY,
• don't switch directly into a threat which can't OHKO you unless you are certain they don't have a setup move, if they have a setup move then Primal Groudon will just get outsped and OHKOd.


[Team Options]

• Ate users especially Kyurem and Mega Diancie are great partners for Primal Groudon because they break down physical walls such as Giratina and Zygarde walling Primal Groudon while it breaks down the Steel types walling the ate user.
• Other physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X and Regigigas can both lure or help Primal Groudon break through its checks.
• Despite Primal Groudon's great physical bulk, its Sp. Defence is easily exploitable by general special attackers. -Ate and Triage users especially can even outspeed the Choice Scarf set to kill it. And so, Slow Pivots such as Giratina, Zygarde and Registeel can not only take on special attackers, but they can also safely bring Primal Groudon into a mon it threatens, especially Steel type walls.
• If lacking Desolate Land, a Water-resist such as Giratina or Primal Kyogre can be used in conjunction with U-turn to scout for random Scalds and as a check to Water Bubble.
Water bubble is now banned. This is still a relevant comment though

• Because of Primal Groudon's fantastic offensive stats and extremely potent STABs, it is important to carry an Imposter check. Some example of this are Giratina, Zygarde and Slowbro.
• Even if you aren't running a Primal Groudon, it is still important to have a check for it because it is a very common and prominent pokemon in BH.
This is not a team option, remove
• it is worth mentioning that although these mons are very bulky, some sets such as Tinted Lens and Stakeout or if Ice Hammer is used as coverage can break through and as such, extra precautions such as Fur Coat or King's Shield may be necessary.
Combine with previous bullet

[Setup Sweeper]
I think that you should only include a physical setup sweeping set for here, and mention that a specially based set can work as a lure in OO
Groudon-Primal @ Life Orb / Earth Plate / Icicle Plate / Focus Sash
Earth plate/Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling / Adaptability / Desolate Land / Galvanize / Pixilate / Magic Guard
Pick a max of 3 abilities from here, I'd probably go for Dazzling / Desolate Land / Refrigerate. Dazzling for standard, desolate land to block water types, and refrigerate to lure in Girat or Zygarde-C. Move the rest to OO
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive / Rash / Naughty Nature
Naive probably best
- Shift Gear / Shell Smash / Quiver Dance
Shift gear best
- Thousand Arrows / Bonemerang / Earth Power / Judgment
Thousand Arrows/Bonemerang
- V-Create / Sacred Fire / Blue Flare / Flare Blitz / Extreme Speed
V-Create / Sacred Fire / Extreme Speed
- Ice Hammer / Judgment / Sunsteel Strike / Moongeist Beam / Boomburst / Light of Ruin
Extreme Speed / Sunsteel Strike / Boomburst

[Set Comments]
[Moves]
-----

• Shift Gear turns Pdon into a fast and powerful sweeper in one turn.
• The second slot should always be Ground stab because ground is a very good attacking type in BH, hitting a lot of things neutrally.
Thousand arrows provides great neutral coverage and is 100% accurate; Bonemerang allows one to break focus sashes, but has a chance to miss which can be very costly
• A fire move is highly recommended as it provides a secondary stab and creates perfect neutral coverage with ground, especially Thousand Arrows. If Refrigerate ability is used, Extreme Speed should be used here.
V-create / sacred fire are both useable in the third slot; v-create can make sweeping harder since it lowers your speed, while sacred fire has much less power and can cause annoying burns.
Refrigerate Extreme speed can be a nasty surprise to Zygarde-c and non fur coat Giratina who switch in after a +1 boost

• Sunsteel Strike ignores unaware and OHKOs Sturdy Shedinja
• Boomburst should only be used on ate sets and is highly recommended as most ate checks such as Registeel and Solgaleo will not be able to wall Pdon's stabs.

[Set Details]
Evs/abilities?

• Naive is again recommended to be able outspeed all the base 90 Speed mons but Naughty or Rash can be used for more power and since Pdon's initial speed won't matter after a single boost.

[Usage Tips]
• unlike the Choiced sets, setup Pdon aims to sweep weakened teams.
• because of Pdon's fantastic Attack and very good complimentary special attack it can effectively destroy it's checks with a super effective move after a boost
Obviously, remove
• after it's checks are weakened, Pdon is almost unstoppable after a single boost
• Hazards are great at weakening the opposing team
Team options
• be careful of unaware users with Spectral Thief as they can steal your boosts and sweep themselves.
• find a good opportunity to setup late game, such as doubling Pdon into a Steel type and setting up on a predicted switch.
• Scout opposing teams for Prankster, Destiny Bond, Spectral Thief and Spore before attempting to sweep.

[Team Options]

• Another setup sweeper such as Poison Heal Regigigas or Primal Kyogre can help Pdon overwhelm an unaware user if lacking Moongeist Beam or Sunsteel Strike
• A special attacker can remove Pdon's usual physical walls to let it sweep easier if lacking a special move.
• A wish passer may give Pdon a second chance at sweeping if it is forced out such as when against an imposter chansey.
Examples for each of these

Where is the other options section?

[Checks and Counters]

• Zygarde-C is arguably the best Primal Groudon check. With its titanic physical bulk and resistance to Fire, it can beat all Primal Groudon lacking Ice coverage.
Though many of them do. The fur coat set laughs at all physical based groudon sets, even those that do have ice coverage.
• Giratina is on the same boat as Zygarde-C. Although not quite as bulky as it's predecessor, it doesn't have the crippling 4x Ice weakness which can be easily exploited.
• Mega Slowbro, although it is quite a niche and uncommon mon in the BH metagame can also take on Primal Groudon very well. Unlike the two mons mentioned above, Mega Slowbro has the niche of resisting Ice-type attacks so that it can wall an Impostered lure.
Combine all of these in to a single bullet, they are all physical bulky walls
• Flash Fire and Primordial Sea users stop Primal Groudon from using V-create which allows them to wall Primal Groudon with more ease.
Examples
• because of Primal Groudon's exploitable mediocre Speed and Sp. Defense, fast and powerful special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Gengar and such can revenge kill Primal Groudon after a little prior damage.
Choice scarf can outspeed at +0
• if lacking Desolate Land, it's 4x weakness to Water will let even walls 2HKO Primal Groudon with a weak move like Scald.
 

Funbot28

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Ok so this is gonna be an expansion on SuperSkylake's AM check since I agree upon most of the points he raised. So add everything he mentioned unless I specifically say not to.

Overview:
- Yeh agree with SS's points, just mention that it's Fire / Ground typing allows it to resist common offensive types such as Fairy, Electric, and Fire-type moves. Then you can mention of examples of offensive threats it can switch into due to these resistances.
- Change the second point to just specify that its 180 / 150 offensive stats coupled with the great coverage of its STAB moves alone allows it to be one of the deadliest offensive threats in the metagame.
- Stress that Primal Groudon can run a myriad of viable offensive sets, meaning that it can be quite hard to scout what it is exactly running.
- Just mention that its typing leaves it weak to common offensive attacks such as Water and Ground type attacks.
- The introduction of Zygarde-C also means that it can't just start spamming Fire type moves like last gen unless it is running Tinted Lens, meaning that it usually must run Ice-type coverage to deal with Zyggy-C.

Choiced Wallbreaker <- (implies revenge killing as well)

Moves
- Yeh add U-turn
- Remove mention of Bug and Grass type for TA, just say the move is reliable spammable STAB, and yeh mention that it hits stuff that V-create can't hit as hard
- Specifically mention that Switcheroo can cripple Gira and Zygarde-C, two of the most common Pdon switchins

Set Details
- Fix EVs to fit no EV limit meta
- Adamant should be slashed first, Jolly should be used on Scarf sets.
- Mention that scarf set can opt to run Technician with Bonemerang as well
- Yeh no Solar Blade
- Remove mention of Stakeout

Usage Tips
- Dont divide them into sub-units, keep it all in one
- Hazards bit should be in Team Options, not UT
- Say that Tinted Lens Choice Band Primal Groudon is one of the most difficult mons to switch into and is great at breaking down more defensive teams.
- Also mention that the opponent can capitalize on the stat drops from V-create, using the switchout turn in order to setup or do whatever they want for that matter.
- Desolate Land can be a pseudo-check to water type wallbreakers such as Primal Kyogre and Palkia, worth mentioning.

Team Options
- Remove mention of Water Bubble, just say that water type switchins are necessary
- Would specifically mention Fur Coat Gira and Zygarde-C as Improofers since Tinted Lens sets can still do a lot even without a Choice Band
- Yeh move bullet of carrying a Pdon answer to UT

Setup Sweeper

Imo I prefer Pixilate over Refrigerate, i would mention as followed

Groudon-Primal @ Safety Goggles / Earth Plate / Focus Sash
Ability: Desolate Land / Pixilate / Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Naive / Timid Nature
- Shift Gear / Shell Smash / Quiver Dance
- Sacred Fire / V-Create / Blue Flare
- Thousand Arrows / Bonemerang / Judgement
- Spore / Extreme Speed / Boomburst / Sunsteel Strike

Moves
- Fix according to above set, you can mention other coverage options such as Moongeist and Ice Hammer here
- Sacred Fire should be suggested highly then V-Create, as although the power difference is noticeable, V-Create can often feel counter intuitive at times when used

Set Details
- Yeh add EVs and abilities details
- Can mention stuff like Galvanize and Adaptability here

Usage Tips
- Mention that it can still fall prey to being revenge killed by priority if not Dazzling
- Pdon can also wallbreak early game due to its inherent power, weakening its checks before it proceeds to sweep

Team Options
- Wallbreakers such as Choice Band Primal Groudon, Specs Aerilate Mega ray, and Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y can also be useful in weakening Pdon's checks early game
- Mention hazard setters
- hazard removers too due to them potentially breaking its sash
- Give examples

Yeh add Other Options section, with Main sets being:
  • Galvanize
  • Prankster (Sub Copycat and Assist)
  • Mold Breaker
  • Magnet Pull
  • Contrary
  • Special Sheer Force
  • Just mention that Pdon can run numerous other sets as well
Checks and Counters
- Yeh most Pdons run Ice coverage now a days
- Merge both Zygarde-C, Mega Slowbro and Gira
- Just mention water-type moves in general
- Unaware walls such as Arceus, Mega Audino, and certain Yveltal sets can also wall special sweeping sets

This is good, but I would like for you to implement all these changes before I give a stamp. Also the grammar can be tweaked to go according with GP standards as well.
 
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I have implemented the changed, but there are some things I don't agree/understand with.

I think separating the bullet points for the attack and defence is fine, they both have very different usage/points.

Personally, I think jolly should be recommended for the choiced sets, even Band. Base 90 speed is cluttered that I feel that jolly is needed to outspeed a lot of the relevant mons.

Lastly I think keeping the final bullet point for checks and counters for Zygarde, Giratina and slowbro is better because they each have different weaknesses.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
If you remember, I made AM QC on your analysis and I think it should stay in this thread.

I know Pdon can run many different sets, but I think you have to mention the ones that are the most relevant and efficient. Right now, the most common forms are Choice Band wallbreaker that runs Desolate Land / Tinted Lens / Staktout or others.

Also add sprite, it looks cool

[Overview]

All these refer to Pdon right? Gotta mention what those statements refer to!

Primal Groudon has exceptional physical bulk with base 160 Defense and passable 90 Sp. Defense, which means it can tank one hit from some of the most powerful threats in the BH metagame such as Mewtwo X, Mega Tyranitar and Regigigas.
• Outstanding offensive stats with 180 Attack and 150 Sp. Attack, it can even run a lure set.
• Its new typing Fire / Ground is literally the best offensive coverage available, having access to STAB V-create and Thousand Arrows.
-> 1k Arrows and Fire move can literally cover everything. Make sure to mention this.
• It also gives an immunity to Burn which is huge for a physical attacker.
• Its mediocre base 90 Speed and Special Defense lets it easily be revenge killed by special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gengar after a bit of prior damage.
-> It is forced to accumulate boosts of Speed or equip Choice Scarf to outspeed common threats such as (the examples you mentioned).
• Its 4x weakness to water leaves it very weak to even non-STAB Scald from walls.

[Choiced Everything-breaker] -> I am pretty sure QC teams won't appreciate these kind of names. Use formal names like "Choiced WallBreaker" or other.
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band / Choice Scarf
Ability: Tinted Lens / Adaptability / Desolate Land / Stakeout
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- U-turn / Ice Hammer / Precipice Blades/
- Switcheroo

[Set Comments]

• The ability chosen should suit Primal Groudon's role on the team.
• Tinted Lens allows it to break walls which resists its moves.
• Adaptability lets it hit non-resists harder.
• Desolate Land rids Primal Groudon of its 4x water weakness and boosts Fire-type moves more than Adaptability.
• Stakeout boosts Primal Groudon's damage even more than Adaptability and Desolate Land if the opponent switches, not an uncommon occurrence when running either Choice Band or Choice Scarf.

• With a Choice Band and one of the listed abilities, Primal Groudon is able to OHKO every relevant mon in the BH tier with the exception of Flash Fire / Primordial Sea users, Giratina, Zygarde-C and Mega Slowbro with V-create. Just say the set is capable of threatening anyone in the metagame. Exceptions, you can mention them in Checks & Counters.
• Using a Choice Scarf, Primal Groudon can be a very effective revenge-killer and late game cleaner, outspeeding and OHKOing many fast but frail threats such as the Mega Mewtwos, Mega Gengar and Ash-Greninja.

• V-create is an extremely powerful nuke which will completely tear down most walls. Very few mons such as Giratina, Mega Slowbro and Zygarde-C are able to avoid the 2HKO.
• Thousand Arrows is one of the most spammable move ever, only hitting Grass and Bug types not very effectively. However they are very uncommon in BH and are threatened by Fire type moves.
• U-turn grabs momentum and scout for checks and is especially good on Choice Scarf sets as they lack the power Choice Band provides to 2HKO switchins.
• Switcheroo cripples walls with a Choice item, locking them into a single move.

[Set Details]

• Maximum Attack and Speed to hit as hard and be as fast as possible.
• Jolly is an option over Adamant to outspeed slower threats such as Adamant Regigigas and other Adamant Primal Groudon on the Band set and Deoxys-Attack, not fully invested Mega Tyranitar at +2 and slower mons in general at +1 on the Scarf set.
• Ice Hammer can be used over U-turn to lure and kill Zygarde and Giratina but it would force you to use a less viable mon such as Mega Slowbro for imposter-proofing.
• Precipice Blades can alternatively also be used on non-Tinted Lens set to hit Fire-resists harder.
• Solar Blade can be used in Desolate Land sets for a reliable way to kill Water-types however it offers nothing else coverage-wise and has a small downside of potentially trapping you in if the opponent has a Primordial Sea user.

[Usage Tips]

Group these into one. Make them specific.

(General)
• Hazards complements Primal Groudon very well, because they help it break down bulkier walls and turns some important 2HKOs such as Mega Rayquaza into 1HKO on Choice Scarf sets.
• be wary of walls carrying Knock Off as Primal Groudon's item allows it to perform its role much more effectively.

(Choice Band)
• Bring in to non-resist walls like Registeel, Solgaleo and Mega Audino
• Keep healthy so it can live a hit from a threat and OHKO back.

(Choice Scarf)
• if possible don't reveal scarf until you can get a surprise kill on something like Mega Mewtwo Y or Mega Gengar.
• don't switch directly into a threat which can't OHKO you unless you are certain they don't have a setup move, if they have a setup move then Primal Groudon will just get outsped and OHKOd.


[Team Options]

• Ate users especially Kyurem and Mega Diancie are great partners for Primal Groudon because they break down physical walls such as Giratina and Zygarde walling Primal Groudon while it breaks down the Steel types walling the ate user.
• Other physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X and Regigigas can both lure or help Primal Groudon break through its checks.
• Despite Primal Groudon's great physical bulk, its Sp. Defence is easily exploitable by general special attackers. -Ate and Triage users especially can even outspeed the Choice Scarf set to kill it. And so, Slow Pivots such as Giratina, Zygarde and Registeel can not only take on special attackers, but they can also safely bring Primal Groudon into a mon it threatens, especially Steel type walls.
• If lacking Desolate Land, a Water-resist such as Giratina or Primal Kyogre can be used in conjunction with U-turn to scout for random Scalds and as a check to Water Bubble.

• Because of Primal Groudon's fantastic offensive stats and extremely potent STABs, it is important to carry an Imposter check. Some example of this are Giratina, Zygarde and Slowbro.
• Even if you aren't running a Primal Groudon, it is still important to have a check for it because it is a very common and prominent pokemon in BH.
• it is worth mentioning that although these mons are very bulky, some sets such as Tinted Lens and Stakeout or if Ice Hammer is used as coverage can break through and as such, extra precautions such as Fur Coat or King's Shield may be necessary.


[Defensive Desolate Land] -> Primal Groudon is totally outclassed for this role compared to Zygarde-C and Giratina, but I would say it still has a niche in terms of shutting down Kyogre without coverages like Earth Power. If I were you, I would divide the first set into 2 different sets with more details on each and mention this set briefly in Other Options section.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Groudon-Primal @ Leftovers / Safety Goggles
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 236 HP / 96 Def / 176 SpD -> If you mention specific EV sets, I suggest you explaining what these set can do. In this case, this set can survive two Boomburst from Pixilate Diancie with high chance.
Impish Nature
- Sacred Fire / V-create / U-turn
- Thousand Arrows
- Recover / Morning Sun
- Stealth Rock / U-turn / Whirlwind / Spectral Thief

[Set Comments]

• With Desolate Land, Primal Groudon loses it's extremely exploitable 4x water weakness, and so also becoming a great Water Bubble check.
• Sacred Fire is still a very powerful STAB which has a 50% chance to cripple its target with a Burn even though uninvested.
• Thousand Arrows alongside Sacred Fire allows Primal Groudon to threaten the mons it checks, a great trait to have that not many other walls such as Registeel and Mega Audino can offer.
• Recovery is mandatory on any defensive mon in the BH metagame. This is common sense. Mention why Primal Groudon's longevity in the game is important.
• The last slot is for utility. Why Whirlwind? Dragon Tail and Circle Throw is much better and can be abused with its 180 base attack.

[Set Details]

• 236 HP lets Primal Groudon achieve a Leftovers number, allowing it to recover 7% instead of 6% health every turn.
• With the defensive spread of 236 HP / 96 Defense / 176 Sp. Defense Primal Groudon can always live:
+2 140 BP Power Trip from Adamant Mega Tyranitar
0 Sp. Attack Sky Plate Aerilate Boomburst from Naive Mega Rayquaza
+2 140 BP Facade from Adamant Regigigas
and some other stuff probably.
• Safety Goggles can be used over Leftovers if more Sleep counter-measures are needed.
• although this is a defensive set, V-create still works extremely well as wallbreaking tool despite uninvested.
• If more utility is required, Sacred Fire or Thousand Arrows can be slashed although Thousand Arrows has 16 PP and so it will let Primal Groudon threaten Steel types for much longer than Sacred Fire or V-create so it is recommended to keep it.
• Morning Sun can be used if the team doesn't aim to stall and doesn't need PP.

[Usage Tips]

• Desolate Land Primal Groudon is a fantastic check Choiced Water Bubble mons, as it gets a free turn whenever they are choice-locked into a Water move.
• Scout for coverage if you are not sure it's Choiced as it's safe to say the opposing player won't click a Water move again under Desolate Land or it will just switch out if it's Choiced or can't OHKO.
• this Primal Groudon shouldn't be your only Water Bubble check, as some users carry Core Enforcer which would nullify Desolate Land.
• although this Primal Groudon is defensive, it's STABs are powerful enough to threaten out annoying Steel types and even 2 or 3HKO most of the mons it walls.


[Team Option]

• Although Primal Groudon has stellar physical bulk, it's Sp. Defense is lacking and so partners like specially defensive Mega Audino, Zygarde-C and Registeel can take on the special attackers Primal Groudon can't handle.
• Hazard control is important to ensure Primal Groudon's longevity and to make Whirlwinds more punishing.
• A Primal Groudon check such as Giratina or Zygarde-C can handle other Primal Groudon and imposter proof your own.

[Other Options]

• because of the combination of Primal Groudon's bulk, typing and power, Primal Groudon can run almost any offensive set under the sun.
• A Contrary set can be an excellent late game sweeper provided all of Primal Groudon's checks are weakened and can be very hard to stop thanks to its bulk.
• Primal Groudon's 150 Sp. Attack set can be turned into a very effective lure set to kill all of its usual physically defensive checks.
• It can an -Ate set to get surprise kills on opposing Mega Rayquaza and Mega Diancie while also luring in Zygarde-C and Giratina with Refrigerate.
• Thanks to its great natural bulk it can successfully pull of a Poison Heal sweeper set.
• a Desolate Land set with Growth can be used as a mixed wallbreaker.
• on the other hand Shift Gear or Shell Smash turns Primal Groudon into a fast and very powerful sweeper which only needs priority to be removed to sweep. However Impostors can easily take advantage of this.
• Assist-Don involves spamming Primal Groudon's with Assist alongside an Imposter Chansey is a strategy abusing Thousand Arrows' lack of resist. This is used in conjunction with Prankster and a Choice Band to give two Primal Groudons +1 Priority Thousand Arrows.


[Checks and Counters]

• Zygarde-C is arguably the best Primal Groudon check. With its titanic physical bulk and resistance to Fire, it can beat all Primal Groudon lacking Ice coverage. Fur Coat sets can even prevail against Primal Groudon sets with Ice type coverage.
• Giratina is on the same boat as Zygarde-C. Although not quite as bulky as it's predecessor, it doesn't have the crippling 4x Ice weakness which can be easily exploited. However, Stakeout set with Choice Band can severely dent Giratina.
• Mega Slowbro, although it is quite a niche and uncommon mon in the BH metagame can also take on Primal Groudon very well. Unlike the two mons mentioned above, Mega Slowbro has the niche of resisting Ice-type attacks so that it can wall an Impostered lure. Say Improofing stuff in Team Options. This section is about how Primal Groudon is countered.
• Flash Fire and Primordial Sea users stop Primal Groudon from using V-create which allows them to wall Primal Groudon with more ease. But none of them can safely switch into Primal Groudon's Ground STAB moves.
• because of Primal Groudon's exploitable mediocre Speed and Sp. Defense, fast and powerful special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Gengar and such can revenge kill Primal Groudon after a little prior damage.
• if lacking Desolate Land, it's 4x weakness to Water will let even walls 2HKO Primal Groudon with a weak move like Scald.


Overall comment:
* Works on formatting seems urgent. Some sentences sound half-finished, and I think they need to be more clear.
* Kills -> KOs
* Checks and Counters: change the formatting:
Ex)
A: A counters Primal Groudon because it is the first letter of the alphabet.
B: B counters Primal Groudon because it is not one of the letters from Primal Groudon's name.
C: C counters Primal Groudon because Primal Groudon doesn't give a C rap

* Primal Groudon is one the most challenging analysis. It is also very important, so I would say put more enthusiasm into it. This 'mon has ridiculously high usage rate and is one of the best physical attackers in the whole metagame. I am not trying to put pressure into you by saying this, however. I would suggest go and see successful ones like ScarfWynaut's Chansey analysis. Chansey literally had the highest usage rate for the entire metagame for the whole time and this analysis has been very successful and I enjoyed reading it. I hope it helps.
* Overall this is good analysis. Many analysis are usually not good as yours is, but I am saying too much stuff about it because again, Primal Groudon is one of the best 'mons in the BH tier and it needs some heavy investment of time when it comes to writing an analysis IMO.
 
RNGIsCancer Your QC is outdated. The analysis has changed quite a lot, including the removal of the defensive set (you have max Evs and water bubble is banned), formatting and there is a new setup sweeper set to replace the old defensive set.
 
Few comments:
I believe that Stakeout deserves a mention in choice band set as it is pretty viable.
defensive didnt totally lose its value imo, should mention it in OO.
 
I originally had stakeout but Funbot28 told me to remove it on his QC.

>Set Details
-remove mention of stakeout

But I'll add in a defensive set to the OO if more people asks for it, because I'm not really sure what Groudon really offers defensively over Zygarde. Sure you get a fire stab which is nice and all but most of the time you want as much utility on your walls. For example, you are missing out on a slot for something like whirlwind, spectral thief, core enforcer, stealth rock, etc etc.
 

Funbot28

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yeh srry about that I got confused with another aspect that needed to be removed, definitely keep Stakeout mention.

Defensive Desolate Land sets have really lost there niche after the WB ban. It does not even function as a check to PH Primal Kyogre since it can't even touch it unless it is running Solar Blade or Spectral Thief (both which are bad options on this type of set). Zyggy-C/Gira just outclass it in that department and Pdon has much better use as an offensive threat since it is one the best in the metagame.
 
Also for OO, an regen Assault Vest set running Ice Hammer/Thousand Arrows/V create / U Turn is great for checking -ate users and makes it a decent mixed tank. It really only needs to worry about water-type coverage, because it can hit really hard and then pivot out to regen up.
 
I haven't really seen anyone use or mention regen vest pdon before, I guess it could work but you really should be using an -ate resist as your -ate check. Just considering the calc below you are better off using something with more spdef and/or resists -ate.

252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 181-214 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 124-147 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO


252 SpA Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Boomburst vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 118-141 (29.2 - 34.9%) -- 13.2% chance to 3HKO

Against ray you need to stay above 75%. It handles kyurem a bit better but again you still need to be above 60%. Also this is considering no hazards or a sky/icicle plate so I'm not entirely convinced.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
I haven't really seen anyone use or mention regen vest pdon before, I guess it could work but you really should be using an -ate resist as your -ate check. Just considering the calc below you are better off using something with more spdef and/or resists -ate.

252 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 181-214 (44.9 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 124-147 (30.7 - 36.4%) -- 62.7% chance to 3HKO


252 SpA Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Boomburst vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 135-159 (33.4 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 118-141 (29.2 - 34.9%) -- 13.2% chance to 3HKO

Against ray you need to stay above 75%. It handles kyurem a bit better but again you still need to be above 60%. Also this is considering no hazards or a sky/icicle plate so I'm not entirely convinced.
Most Rayquaza variants have Specs for better wallbreaking potency, according to my experience. Pdon's unique typing can be useful as regenvester in some circumstances, but it is not consistent as other stuff like Solgaleo. But it can really help when facing teams that are unprepared for this. I would add it in Other Options sections if I were you.
 
Ok I'm sorry if this is taking a long time, I'll try to qc this as soon as I can.

For now analysis looks super messy, there are too many slased and it's super hard to see what goes with what. We discussed with the rest of the QC and decided that the sets the analysis should cover individually are Banded Tinted Lens + banded Desolate Land, Mixed lo Stakeout and Magpul scarf.

Here are the sets:

Choice Band Wallbreaker
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- Ice Hammer
- Magma Storm / Solar Blade / U-Turn

Mixed Stakeout
Groudon-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Draco Meteor
- Thousand Arrows
- Sunsteel Strike / Bolt Strike

Magnet Pull
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- Ice Hammer
- U-turn

Some moves are redundant but the sets have different usage so it's important to treat them individually. If you have any question about the sets n shit at any point when writing you can ask me, or join the BH discord and ask here (all three qc are here).

Don is a pretty versatile mon so there's quite a bit to mention in oo, important ones would be band adapt, quiver dance sheer force, belly drum unburden, mixed contrary and mixed imposterproof -ate.

Anyway sorry for making redo stuff, this is an important analysis tho and there were a lot of meta changes.
 
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Alright, I'll add these suggestions in and tag you after I'm done. I haven't been active recently because I kinda want a break but I'll try and get this done as soon as I can. I'm just wondering though, shouldn't magnet pull be in OO? I haven't been playing as I have mentioned but last time I played, although magnet pull is a good set it is rather uncommon. I also haven't seen stakeout used a lot so I'm rather unsure of it. Maybe I could just add another set for a lure set? It seems like the stakeout and magnet pull sets both tries to lure in don's usual checks.
 
Hmm, I don't really know what you mean by "I'll add theses suggestions in". You can reuse most of the context/tips and stuff like that but the sets atm are a mess, I'm saying your analysis should have those 3 sets treated individually.

Magnet pull is common enough that any good team should account for it. and it has had constantly increasing usage rate on ladder and in tournament from experience. It enables don to be an extremely strong support option for mons like mmy or specs -ates while still maintaining strong offensive presence, which means even on mu's where there's nothing to pull don is rarely dead weight. Scarf makes it a really potent revenge killer against mons like mmy, ray, diancie and pretty much everything else. I don't really know where you got that it tried to lure don's checks, it literally does the opposite.

Stakeout isn't exactly a lure set, it still has insane v-create and takes on most things that other wallbreaking dons would take on, it's just that it also takes on don's most common answers. It takes advantage of don's unparalleled ability to cause switches to blow heavy holes in the opposing teams.

Also I just had a look through the overview, it's pretty poorly worded / constructed you might want to review that.
 
how would you suggest to make it neater? What sets should I put? atm there is the choiced set and setup set, are you saying I should split the choiced sets?

Would you mind putting your suggestions in bullet points too, I would appreciate that.
 
ScarfWynaut

Yes I mean around, but I haven't been very active lately, and I'm not quite sure what people run now on pdon nowadays. I was told that the sets to be used are stakeout, choiced and magnet pull and I've finished writing on those however it hasn't been checked by anyone yet. Also it seems like there is a suspect test on magnet pull on so if it's banned I assume I'd have to replace it?

To be honest, I finished my exams a week ago and I have a lot of free time now and I really want to finish this before my school starts again. There is a problem I've noticed. it seems like I'm no thanks getting QCs. If people QCs this I'll have a lot of time to edit and finish it. This is kind of a big problem since As I said I haven't been active recently so I might not sure if what I'm writing is accurate.

I've been on more because as I said now I have free time and in my opinion I think Contrary deserves a set but I need others opinion.

You know, a couple of months ago I used to check this thread every single day. I was happy with what I did, and I thought if I just got the QCs quick, it will be done quickly. I Waited for about a month and I finally got my first QC. For about a month I was given feedback and that made me very happy, knowing that I could improve this analysis. But then feedback slowed down, and although I implemented all the feedback no more came :(. Because of this, I was less motivated to check everyday, because I was sure no one had wanted to give anymore feedback. I stopped being active entirely when my exams were coming, because I had to prepare for it. And now, 6 months after I requested to write this analysis, I have yet gotten my 2nd QC, although I was so happy when I could do this.

I can tell you are eager to take over this analysis, and perhaps it is for the better. I was actually quite jealous of you, because saw that you finished chansey analysis within 2 months IIRC. Perhaps I'm just not fit for this kind of thing, seeing as I feel like I'm not getting any more feedback now. I worked so hard on this analysis, and I was quite proud of it. Little by little however I feel like I'm ignored, until I have no more motivation anymore. Quite sad really, because I really wanted to finish this and I still do. If it really comes down to it though I think a more active knowledgable person should take over.

Nowadays on the rare occasions I check this thread I feel sad. I ask myself what I should have done better. I try to figure out what I did wrong. Was it the lack of communication? Did I lose my passion? Either way, I know eventually someone will come to replace me and this analysis, which I used to spend so much time on and something I was proud of. I envy others who finished their analysis. I still really want to finish this analysis to be honest. Just one more QC and I can write the paragraphs. Yet I'm uncertain that moment will come, and I instead everything I wrote will be replaced by another's.
 
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ScarfWynaut

Yes I mean around, but I haven't been very active lately, and I'm not quite sure what people run now on pdon nowadays. I was told that the sets to be used are stakeout, choiced and magnet pull and I've finished writing on those however it hasn't been checked by anyone yet. Also it seems like there is a suspect test on magnet pull on so if it's banned I assume I'd have to replace it?

To be honest, I finished my exams a week ago and I have a lot of free time now and I really want to finish this before my school starts again. There is a problem I've noticed. it seems like I'm no thanks getting QCs. If people QCs this I'll have a lot of time to edit and finish it. This is kind of a big problem since As I said I haven't been active recently so I might not sure if what I'm writing is accurate.

I've been on more because as I said now I have free time and in my opinion I think Contrary deserves a set but I need others opinion.

You know, a couple of months ago I used to check this thread every single day. I was happy with what I did, and I thought if I just got the QCs quick, it will be done quickly. I Waited for about a month and I finally got my first QC. For about a month I was given feedback and that made me very happy, knowing that I could improve this analysis. But then feedback slowed down, and although I implemented all the feedback no more came :(. Because of this, I was less motivated to check everyday, because I was sure no one had wanted to give anymore feedback. I stopped being active entirely when my exams were coming, because I had to prepare for it. And now, 6 months after I requested to write this analysis, I have yet gotten my 2nd QC, although I was so happy when I could do this.

I can tell you are eager to take over this analysis, and perhaps it is for the better. I was actually quite jealous of you, because saw that you finished chansey analysis within 2 months IIRC. Perhaps I'm just not fit for this kind of thing, seeing as I feel like I'm not getting any more feedback now. I worked so hard on this analysis, and I was quite proud of it. Little by little however I feel like I'm ignored, until I have no more motivation anymore. Quite sad really, because I really wanted to finish this and I still do. If it really comes down to it though I think a more active knowledgable person should take over.

Nowadays on the rare occasions I check this thread I feel sad. I ask myself what I should have done better. I try to figure out what I did wrong. Was it the lack of communication? Did I lose my passion? Either way, I know eventually someone will come to replace me and this analysis, which I used to spend so much time on and something I was proud of. I envy others who finished their analysis. I still really want to finish this analysis to be honest. Just one more QC and I can write the paragraphs. Yet I'm uncertain that moment will come, and I instead everything I wrote will be replaced by another's.
I think you've misunderstood, I don't want to take over, I'm part of the QC team. ill look over this properly after the results of the suspect test is announced
 
AM QC FHGSCHFSHGD

[Overview]

• Exceptional physical bulk with base 160 Defense and passable 90 Sp. Defense, which means it can tank most physical hits from some of the most powerful threats in the BH metagame such as Mewtwo X, Mega Tyranitar, Kartana and Regigigas.
• Outstanding offensive stats with 180 Attack and 150 Sp. Attack in conjunction with its typing makes it one of BH's deadliest threat and it can even run a lure set.
• Primal Groudon is also hard to scout because of its mixed offensive stats and few resistances to its STABs alone.
• Its new typing Fire / Ground is literally the best offensive coverage available, having access to STAB V-create and Thousand Arrows.
• Fire / Ground also has a myriad of useful resistances to common attacking types such as Fairy, Electric and Fire. It also gives an immunity to Burn which is fantastic for a physical attacker.
• With the introduction of Zygarde it can no longer spam its Fire-type moves and walled naturally by Zygarde's huge bulk.
• Its mediocre base 90 Speed and Special Defense lets it easily be revenge killed by special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo and Mega Gengar after a bit of prior damage.
• Its 4x weakness to water leaves it very weak to even non-STAB Scald from walls.

[Choice Band Wallbreaker]
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens / Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant / Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- U-turn / Magma Storm / Solar Blade
- Ice Hammer

[Moves]

• V-create is with a band is an extremely powerful nuke which will completely tear down most walls. Very few mons such as Giratina, Mega Slowbro and Zygarde-C are able to avoid the 2HKO. mention that vs lens sets, these mons actually need fur coat/thicc fat otherwise they get 2hkod
• Thousand Arrows is one of the most spammable move ever as very few mons resist it. say that since v create is boosted by both sets, the only reason to actually use this is against guys like opposing pdon (resist v create, weak to karrows), flash fire, or in situations where you need to avoid the speed/defense drop.
• although Magma Storm isn't boosted by a band, it traps switchins and can severely damage physically defensive walls such as Mega Slowbro. also it beats shed
• Ice Hammer is a great move to hit the ever popular Zygarde and to a lesser extent Giratina.
• Switcheroo cripples its common walls such as Giratina and Zygarde with a Choice item.
• Solar Blade with Desolate Land negates Solar Blade's recharge turn but should not be used without it as the recharge turn is extremely detrimental. what does solar blade hit? negating the recharge turn for an instant 130 power grass move is nice, but you need to explain why pdon would want to use a 130 power grass move.


[Set Comments]

• Desolate Land rids Primal Groudon of its 4x water weakness and boosts Fire-type moves more than Adaptability.
• With a Choice Band, Primal Groudon is able to almost OHKO every relevant mon in the BH tier with the exception of Flash Fire / Primordial Sea users, Giratina, Zygarde-C and Mega Slowbro with V-create.
• Jolly should definitely be used on Choice Scarf sets however Adamant is an alternative option on Choice Band sets to more easily break through Giratina, allowing Pdon to 2HKO after some prior damage. you haven't even mentioned scarf yet. what's the problem with adamant scarf? it hits around 450 speed which is faster than pheromosa.
• Because of Desolate Land, Pdon becomes a great check to water type mons such as Pogre and Mega Gyarados, although the latter usually carries Knock Off.


[Usage Tips]

• Tinted Lens Primal Groudon is one of the strongest wallbreaker in BH, so against bulkier teams the best way to utilise it is to pivot it in safely as often as possible.
• While Desolate Land is a great ability in booting Groudon's V-creates, it also works as an effective Water-check.
• be wary of walls carrying Knock Off as Primal Groudon's item allows it to perform its role much more effectively.
• Bring in to non-resist walls like Registeel, Solgaleo and Mega Audino
• Although Primal Groudon is very bulky physically, the opponent may capitalise on its lowered defences after using V-create by capitalising on a switch-out turn by setting up.


[Team Options]

• Hazard complements Groudon, as it not only often force switches but also helps it OHKO bulkier mons such as Regigigas and Mega Gyarados. also say that hazards give it sufficient power to 2hko stuff like fc giratina (if using lens).
• Ate users especially Kyurem and Mega Diancie are great partners for Primal Groudon because they break down physical walls such as Giratina and Zygarde walling Primal Groudon while it breaks down the Steel types walling the ate user.
• Other physical attackers such as Mega Mewtwo X and Regigigas can both lure or help Primal Groudon break through its checks.
• Despite Primal Groudon's great physical bulk, its Sp. Defence is easily exploitable by general special attackers. -Ate and Triage users especially can even outspeed the Choice Scarf set to kill it. And so, Slow Pivots such as Giratina, Zygarde and Registeel can not only take on special attackers, but they can also safely bring Primal Groudon into a mon it threatens, especially Steel type walls.
• If lacking Desolate Land, a Water-resist such as Giratina or Primal Kyogre can be used in conjunction with U-turn to scout for random Scalds.


[Stakeout]
Groudon-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Bolt Strike / Sunsteel Strike

[Moves]

• V-create nukes most things, and paired with stakeout the opponent will be hard-pressed to consistently switch in walls.
• Thousand Arrows is a great spammable stab with close to non-existent resists. what does it hit? remember, unresisted thousand arrows has the same power as resisted v create.
• Draco Meteor hits the omnipresent Zygarde and Giratina that like to switch into Pdon.
• Bolt Strike can get a surprise kill on Pogre and Yveltal.
• On the other hand, Sunsteel Strike lets Pdon ignore Fur Coat and sheddy and can severely damage the otherwise relatively safe switch in.
maybe add recovery too? leech seed is best imo, but anything that can prevent imposter from recovering too is good.

[Set Details]

• This Pdon set acts as a fantastic lure to most of its common answers such as Zygarde and Giratina, capable of removing them consistently because they are the very few mons that is able to wall most Pdons.
• Stakeout abuses Primal Groudon's natural ability to force switches to hit incoming mons harder.
• Although it lacks the raw power of band sets, it makes up for it with its wide coverage and ability to punish switches with Stakeout.
• Despite the coverage's effectiveness at luring common checks, it can be tweaked so that imposters are more manageable, such as by replacing Draco Meteor with Ice Beam and Sunsteel Strike so Water-types such as Mega Slowbro can handle it better.

[Usage Tips]

• Most walls such as Giratina and Zygarde will usually recover after switching in from even an resisted but Stakeout-boosted life orb attack so do not be afraid to go for a coverage move such as Draco Meteor afterwards.
• if lacking the damage to finish a weakened opposing mon, it is also quite safe to had switch into a wallbreaker as they will probably try to recover.
• because of the high damage potential even two moves can deal to a switchin, hazards are a great asset to maximise this set's potential.
• because of life orb, it is more important to keep hazards off your field to preserve Pdon as well as possible.
• Imposters are a very big threat, as they will force you out and gain your coverage and the boost from stakeout.
• off meta sets such as Mega Slowbro, Fur Coat Mega Gyarados or Mega Audino and Flash Fire Tapu Bulu must be used depending on coverage to wall this set.
• It is slightly easier to imposterproof Pdon if Precipice Blades is used over Thousand arrows, as flash fire flying types such as Celesteela or Yveltal will be immune to its STABs. However, opposing FF Celesteela can wall you and it isn't uncommon.
• Most imposters do not carry Life Orb so it is considerably easier to deal with them.

[Team Options]

• Bulky Hazard setter such as Giratina or Mega Audino can lay hazards to maximise opposing forced switches and also breaks sashes.
• Similarly Hazard removal is also appreciated as although Groudon is bulky, Life Orb is detrimental to its survivability.
• U-turn support lets Pdon safely switch into a mon it threatens and make full use of its Stakeout ability.
• due to Stakeout and coverage, a dedicated imposter check must be kept healthy at all times.
also team support such as wish is amazing to keep pdon alive

[Scarf Magnet Pull]
Groudon-Primal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Thousand Arrows / Switcheroo
- Ice Hammer
- U-turn

delet this

i'd say maybe make desolate land (with both band and scarf) and tinted lens (with just band) separate sets

[Moves]

• V-create not only lets Pdon revenge kill fast but frail threats, it also will obliterate any non-Flash Fire steels it traps.
• Thousand Arrows serves as a great secondary stab and can also kill Flash Fire steels.
• Switcheroo can cripple walls or a setup sweeper with a choice item.
• Ice Hammer offers nice coverage as it hits the common Giratina and Zygarde hard.
• Ice hammer is necessary in order to revenge kill Mega Rayquaza.
• U-turn works great with a scarf to grab momentum on a predicted switch, but also to scout switchins and possible water or ground type move.


[Set Details]

• steel types are very common in BH and so Pdon will very rarely have a useless ability.
• Thanks to its typing, Groudon can effectively run a magnet pull set to trap and kill the common steel types in BH such as Registeel and Solgaleo.
• Using a Choice Scarf, Primal Groudon can be a very effective revenge-killer and late game cleaner, outspeeding and OHKOing many fast but frail threats such as the Mega Mewtwos, Mega Gengar and Ash-Greninja.
• Even without any boosting item or ability its raw power is great enough to weaken walls.
• A jolly nature is required to outspeed every relevant mon in the BH meta bar deoxys Speed. what does adamant miss out on??

[Usage Tips]

• Although most steels do carry a pivot move, you can force them to recover on the switch to Pdon to prevent them from switching.
• after the EV limit was removed, it is no longer possible to guarantee the OHKO on certain mons such as Mega Mewtwo Y with V-create, so prior damage from hazards or such is required.
• some steels do have prankster and parting shot, so it is important to scout the moves beforehand and use U-turn on a predicted prankster parting shot.
• After a V-create, the drop on speed and defences not only reduce Pdon's speed to be as if without a scarf, it will also make Pdon more vulnerable to attacks, so that is important to bear in mind before locking into V-create.
• if possible don't reveal scarf until you can get a surprise kill on something like Mega Mewtwo Y or Mega Gengar.

[Team Options]

• thanks to Magnet Pull, -Ate users such as Mega Rayquaza are extremely good partners to have, as their Ate boosted moves are devastating if left unchecked.
• A wallbreaker such as Mega Mewtwo can make use of the momentum gained from U-turn and threaten physically oriented walls.
• setup sweepers benefit from the removal of enemy steels because they are mostly used as a support pivot and can disrupt setup with moves such as Whirlwind and Spore.
• A steel type of your own can be used to lure an imposter for a surprise trap.
• Although scarfed Pdon can revenge kill unboosted sweepers, it has trouble dealing with boosted ones. As such, an Unaware mon or imposter Chansey is a great partner to deal with them.

Groudon-Primal @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Bonemerang
- Sunsteel Strike
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear

unburden drum pdon. although the meta has sort of adapted to this by now (shown by the rise of sets like prankster haze celesteela) i think it should still be its own set. evs are to ohko imposter at +6 (you outspeed thanks to unburden).


[Other Options]

• Sacred Fire, although it is significantly weaker than V-create, can be used to spread burns.
• although Precipice Blades is less spammable than Thousand Arrows, it can be used simply for more power.
• Bonemerang can be used to ignore sashes and preferably used in a scarf set.
• Groudon is such a potent offensive mon that it can basically run any set, move or coverage under the sun.
• Adaptability with a band lets it hit everything harder with its powerful STABs.
• A Contrary set with V-create turns its downside into a very bulky and powerful late game sweeping option.
• Pdon can even run a mixed setup sweeper set with Sheer Force because of its fantastic offensive stats.
• Pixilated, Galvanize and Refrigerate are all viable options, with Galvanize and Pixilated somewhat being completely imposter proof with earth plate judgment.
• It's natural bulk also allows it to pull off a Poison Heal set well.
• there are many more numerous options which can be run.
mention the downsides of all these options-- they're certainly viable, but what makes them less powerful than the established sets?

[Checks and Counters]

• Zygarde-C is arguably the best Primal Groudon check. With its titanic physical bulk and resistance to Fire, it can beat all Primal Groudon however must be careful of an Ice coverage.
• Giratina is on the same boat as Zygarde-C. Although not quite as bulky as it's predecessor, it doesn't have the crippling 4x Ice weakness which can be easily exploited.
• Mega Slowbro, although it is quite a niche and uncommon mon in the BH metagame can also take on Primal Groudon very well. Unlike the two mons mentioned above, Mega Slowbro has the niche of resisting Ice-type attacks so that it can wall an Impostered lure.
• Flash Fire and Primordial Sea users stop Primal Groudon from using V-create which allows them to wall Primal Groudon with more ease.
• because of Primal Groudon's exploitable mediocre Speed and Sp. Defense, fast and powerful special attackers such as Mega Mewtwo, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Gengar and such can revenge kill Primal Groudon after a little prior damage.
• if lacking Desolate Land, it's 4x weakness to Water will let even walls 2HKO Primal Groudon with any sort of water move.
maybe mention sturdy shed here too, because many pdon sets fail to break it


maybe one day people will stop ignoring these
 

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